jc577

Completely agree, I think almost all back three teams are better replicated using DW's or WM's. Wingbacks just don't get into the box enough/aren't dynamic enough. The issue I've had with DW's in the past is them not tracking their man and the flanks being open to counters - any tips on having success with them?

No mate, it doesn’t work like that. Think about it like this - roles/duties determine where you build up play, and have a bigger influence on this than TI’s. So applying this to your latest tactic - a trio of FB-S, CM-S, and W-S doesn’t scream ‘we’re looking to build our attacks from here’, especially considering you have a MEZ-A on the other side. However, a trio of a FB-A, RPM/BBM, and an IW-S would likely see build up on the left flank, with the RPM able to switch the ball to your attacking duo on the right.

This makes sense. So in. 3412 with a DLF-A & AF supported by an AM-A, that would be the rest attack?

What would you say are formations with good potential for a rest attack? I'm trying to build a mid-block, quick transition system, and looking at 3412, 343, and 3421.

As I am attempting to achieve the same 'Holy Grail' in my Torino save too, I have some ideas of my own which I'd love to get your thoughts on, as well as some musings on your current tactic. Musings With the goal of achieving less passes in the opposition's final third, I wonder how big (or small) an impact removing counter-press would have? There will be times where you'll lose the ball high up the pitch, win it back, and start playing again from there. Could be something to consider. Very Fluid/Fluid team shapes could actually be working against your end-goal, as support duties are more associative and risk-adverse, which could be leading to more patient, probing football. Also, to my understanding, team shape is purely a visual aspect now and doesn't not work how it did in previous FM's (which is a big loss in my opinion.) Removing Play Out of Defence could again decrease passes made in the final third, as you look to progress the ball quicker. Currently, I have this ticked off, and have instructed my GK to distribute to CB's, which seems to provide a nice medium. The change to a low block, low line of engagement is a nice idea, I have been considering this myself. My only reservation is that this might invite too much pressure, and might not be needed to achieve the 'Holy Grail'. I've been considering upping the passing directness to 'slightly more direct', which could be the the key to truly unlocking this style.

Looks great, following with interest!

Very interesting! I've been trying to crack this for years Could you link me to the material you were reading?

That’s a real shame! I’ve been lurking the forums for the past few days in anticipation of it 😂 really got me thinking about quick attacking football with lots of flare.. may give it a go myself haha. But this new project has me almost equally excited love a 442 and always will, so excited to see your take in this new style.

Would you mind sharing a screenshot of the tactic if you still have it?

Fantastic read mate. Haven’t been as active on here over the holidays but caught up today and you’ve been busy! So much to digest/think about… got me wanting to move away from my 442 to a 433 haha. Great work.

Like the look of this a lot, I can imagine it creates good movement all over the pitch. How does the AP interact with the CM-A? Also, how do you find the shift in the backline as you have the IFB on the opposite side to the Libero?

Agreed on this. I'd like to see different behaviour from an AP, staying a higher to take advantage of the deep build up, with the ability to drop in if necessary.

Amazing thread mate, love the tactical detail and musings as you look to perfect the system. I'm definitely a huge fan of the 2-2 box, and as you've shown there's loads of variations to it. I think the 5-5 split (3-2 rest defence) can work well of course, especially with top teams as it's more reliant on individual qualitative superiority (attacking players winning their 1v1's) but a 2-2 box gives you essentially a 'free' player to support wherever required. I've been thinking lately about a 2-3 rest defence of sorts, but with a player within that '3' able to support attacks when needed, again forming that 2-2. One variation in a 433 is having both CM's consistently join the front line, and then the DM is supported by a Libero & IWB (IWB has license to attack). Another option could be to have one CM stay back, have the Libero step up again to make the three, and now you can perhaps have an aggressive wingback as the extra attacker, with the IW-S coming in very narrow. Lots of options! Looking forward to more, great work so far

This is great detail, thank you. On paper the system looks so simple - not a slight by any means, rather the contrary, and shows the power/importance of player traits. The principles of this tactic reminds me of a 433 you created back in the day, using a wide Treq and a WB-D (Zabeleta I think?) to cover that side. Great stuff. Were the issues you experienced to do with the space between your defence/midfield? That's the current issue I'm trying to solve, but some good advice in here.

That's disappointing, and I feel like whilst the positional play features are great this year, player positioning is bit off in terms of creating these shapes and natural passing angles. Feels a bit awkward and leads to extra passes being played to get someone into space/free between the lines when a simple lateral shift would solve everything. The lines in possession are a bit flat; needs more depth and more lateral movement generally I feel.