Rest Defence, Rest Attack and the Rest of Positional Football

[Rashidi]

It’s time for football theory to meet football manager. Ever since Jose Mourinho showed up in the premier league, the importance of transition phases has grown, and managers like Jurgen Klopp and Pep Guardiola have helped revolutionise how teams look during the attacking and defensive phases of football.

Positional football, rest defence and rest attack are all closely related terms.
Here I will attempt to  explain why this is important, but first a heads up, for more information on these concepts please visit the excellent tactical theory site : Spivelverlagerung.com. You will find an excellent detailed description on that topic over there.

I am going to try and explain why an understanding of this will help you identify good and bad transitions.  Naturally showing most of these in a video format will make things easier and I will link a video as soon as it is done. 

WHAT DOES IT MEAN?

The concept of rest defence and rest attack are central to transitions. When a tactical system is made coaches think in terms of balancing risk with reward. How a team looks like in the attacking transition can make a big difference in how it transitions when it needs to defend, and how a team looks like in the defensive transition affects how it counters. And this is basically rest defence and rest attack.

Understanding rest defence and rest attack will give you a greater appreciation of how different tactical setups can affect the different phases of play.

Rest defence is about optimal positioning of players in deeper areas of the pitch when in possession with the means of controlling defensive spaces in case of an opposition counter attack. These players are positioned in such a way that they limit the chances of a successful counter attack. With good positioning a team is able then to apply pressure higher up the pitch allowing them to control the game. When creating your tactics, you should think in terms of covering the vulnerable areas of the pitch with the least amount of players without compromising your ability to create good goal scoring chances.

Rest attack is the opposite of Rest defence, and it refers to the positioning a team takes up in the defensive phase of the game allowing them to have players in optimal positions to launch counters.  In other words do you have players positioned in decent positions to hit teams on the break and do you have the right kind of players to initiate that attack?

Rest defence refers to teams when the have the ball and rest attack is for when teams are without the ball.

So how does this apply to football manager? We now have the positional play feature in the game where we see some roles rotate into new positions while others shift. Some roles like the libero, the inverted fullback and the roaming playmaker now move in such unique ways that they affect how teams look in different phases of play. Understanding how different roles impact your rest defence and rest attack is central to identifying good transitions.

There is more too. Tempo.

Most people think of tempo as how fast a team can build up attacks, but tempo in football theory and even football manager influence how well a team builds its attacks.

Teams seek to disrupt the tempo of the opposition. If a team is able to build an attack seamlessly from defence to a shot at goal, then it has great tempo and the opposition have failed to disrupt them. Effective positioning of your players allows you to disrupt a teams tempo forcing them to restart their attacks because they can’t find the first pass and have to go backwards. When that happens you disrupt a teams tempo forcing them to look for a plan B.

A good rest defence and a good rest attack will help you set up your side optimally so that you can build your attacks with good tempo and  you can achieve possession numbers as high as 75% without using the "hold shape" instruction.

Time to look at a few common build out patterns. Why is this important? Recognising different build out patterns allows you to identify not only your own weaknesses, but more importantly the weaknesses of the opposition.

BUILD OUT PATTERNS

Different formations have different build out patterns. The common ones include:

A wide 2-3 configuration like this  in systems like a the 433DM system. Here the the first line of defence are the two central defenders and then we have a DM in the centre followed by two wingbacks.

A rest defence for such a system would depend on your roles and duties. If for example you chose a Roaming playmaker as your DM, then you could be without a DM during the attacking phase as the RPM shifts into the AM tier in attack.. If you lose the ball at this stage your Rest Defence would see the space in in front of your first line of defence exposed.

A wide 2-3 configuration like this is also vulnerable down the flanks, requiring  one to consider carefully your choice of fullbacks. If those fullbacks start participating in attacking transitions then your flanks could be vulnerable. If the fullback on the right joins the attack, the team pivots their attack on the right flank leaving the flank exposed. Once again the only rest defence we have in this system is the anchored fullback on the other flank and the 3 players in the centre.

Managers like Guardiola and Klopp have stopped using build out patterns like this. Early in both careers they might have had attacking wingbacks rampaging down the flanks, but both managers also discovered these areas would be vulnerable to counters. Guardiola and Klopp started to invert their fullbacks giving them a different build out shape.

Another build out pattern is the 2-3 narrow configuration which see the two fullbacks inverting and playing like inverted wingbacks, a system commonly used by Ange Postegcoglou over at Tottenham Hotspur.

In this build out phase, the vulnerable areas are still going to be the flanks, when the fullbacks invert, they will have a larger area to cover as a result, should they lose the ball. So while the team might look good in possession, they will need fast players with good anticipation to protect the vulnerable areas of the defence.

There are other rest defence configurations like the halfback in a back 4. Here during the build out phase he will form a three splitting the two central defenders wider in the build out phase. Some might elect to play inverted fullbacks giving the team a 3-2 rest defence provided the two inverted wingbacks are on support duty. 

Once again here the flanks are still vulnerable and we need to consider whether the halfback will always be positioned in the centre through all phases. That is usually never the case leaving the area in front of the keeper exposed. This again requires an exceptionally good player playing in the defensive midfield slot.

Next we have the box build out shape, common in systems that use a double DM configuration. Once again the rest defence here leaves the flanks exposed to the counter when the fullbacks pivot into attack.

My personal favourite for build out patterns is actually the 3-2 configuration or the 3-1 configuration, in both set ups we get a Wedge shaped rest defence which is the one presently being used by Guardiola and Klopp.

This is by far the best configuration because it uses the least number of players, allowing us to defend the flanks. It does need a standout central defender who is more than capable of protecting the centre.

We can achieve this shape using an orthodox back 3 set up or we can set up a back 4 like this. You can also achieve the same shape with a 442 system.

In this setup the libero pushes up to form a 2 in midfield while the two inverted fullbacks collapse and form a back 3 with the BPD taking up a central position. This gives us a rest defence involving 5 players who are behind the ball.

During possession of the ball and when the ball is in transition the players are optimally positioned to allow us to win the ball back when we play higher up the pitch. 

The Rest Attack for this should see the team drop back and defend with at least 6 players leaving the CM(A), the Wingers and the AF as the outlet for a quick counter. Those 4 players are your Rest Attack.

Its an aggressive rest attack which will only work if we have the right kind of players playing in the Libero and DM slots. Players with play making attributes are going to be vital. There will be a world of difference if I use a Camavinga player in the DM slot and a Modric styled DM. Ultimately, your choice of players playing in key positions affects how your counters look.

If you are familiar with my Destiny livestream over on Twitch, you should be aware of Miguel Reyes who plays as my CM(A) he has dictate tempo and plays one twos and is pivotal to all our goal scoring efforts . He drives attacks on the counter with his playmaking attributes and usually gets on the end of plenty of goals. 

More to come, time permitting.

[HanziZoloman]

@Rashidi as always it’s so useful and helpful! Thank you for the dedication and explanation. 
I just note my questions maybe you can touch one of them:

- with a team less capable I find it difficult to shape the mentioned rest defence of 3-2 (IFB) - I often don’t have a Libero kind of player or missing a BPD while I found it easier to play a former CD in IFB role if he has enough pace. How to build with this kind of 3-2 with a less capable team (I am missing the lower league diary on your stream)

- maybe it’s helpful to make notes how to interpret your explanations for strong teams first and then cut it down for less capable teams.

as always: great advice, it makes me feel getting into FM instantly and watching the transitions of my team. 

[Rashidi]

Coming up…. Rest Attack, counter pressing, counters, roles and duties and putting them all together or read my 2016 guide :-). Seems like I am revisiting stuff I wrote about back then.

[Rashidi]

35 minutes ago, HanziZoloman said:

@Rashidi as always it’s so useful and helpful! Thank you for the dedication and explanation. 
I just note my questions maybe you can touch one of them:

- with a team less capable I find it difficult to shape the mentioned rest defence of 3-2 (IFB) - I often don’t have a Libero kind of player or missing a BPD while I found it easier to play a former CD in IFB role if he has enough pace. How to build with this kind of 3-2 with a less capable team (I am missing the lower league diary on your stream)

- maybe it’s helpful to make notes how to interpret your explanations for strong teams first and then cut it down for less capable teams.

as always: great advice, it makes me feel getting into FM instantly and watching the transitions of my team. 

Yeah football systems are multi-layered things, you gotta look at Rest Defense, Rest Attack and how different kinds of roles and duties influence this. I will be adding on to that in due course. I reckon there will be quite a few videos too.

To answer your question I have a lower league side - Gloucester 300-1 favourites to go down where my teams average attributes are single digit, and I play a 442 and a 424. With the 442 I shift into a rest defence that looks like a 325 and with the 424 my rest defense is a 4-2. 
 

In both cases the Rest defense would be useless without the Rest Attack and that is how my team will look like when we are in our defensive phase. How do I get my counters? It all depends on how you set up your roles and duties in the final 3rd. With my 442 I have a winger in attack with an AF and a CF in support.

Deeper I have a playmaker whom I expect to see initiating these counters when they present themselves. For this to work I need a playmaker who has vision decisions and passing. I think those are the only attributes he has 11 for in League 2. In attack on the flanks it’s a simple winger with 13 acceleration and 11 crossing and he already has 7 assists, 4 coming in one game 4 games into our debut season.

Ultimately it’s about putting the pieces together. The final piece is recognising the rest defense of the opposition and playing to their weaknesses.

[HanziZoloman]

vor 35 Minuten schrieb Rashidi:

Yeah football systems are multi-layered things, you gotta look at Rest Defense, Rest Attack and how different kinds of roles and duties influence this. I will be adding on to that in due course. I reckon there will be quite a few videos too.

To answer your question I have a lower league side - Gloucester 300-1 favourites to go down where my teams average attributes are single digit, and I play a 442 and a 424. With the 442 I shift into a rest defence that looks like a 325 and with the 424 my rest defense is a 4-2. 
 

In both cases the Rest defense would be useless without the Rest Attack and that is how my team will look like when we are in our defensive phase. How do I get my counters? It all depends on how you set up your roles and duties in the final 3rd. With my 442 I have a winger in attack with an AF and a CF in support.

Deeper I have a playmaker whom I expect to see initiating these counters when they present themselves. For this to work I need a playmaker who has vision decisions and passing. I think those are the only attributes he has 11 for in League 2. In attack on the flanks it’s a simple winger with 13 acceleration and 11 crossing and he already has 7 assists, 4 coming in one game 4 games into our debut season.

Ultimately it’s about putting the pieces together. The final piece is recognising the rest defense of the opposition and playing to their weaknesses.

I love it 

[bosque]

I'm really liking this. I was familiar with the rest defence concept but very interested on reading more about the rest attack.

Edited February 27 by bosque

[wazzaflow10]

@Rashidi

For a 3-2 rest defense formation with an initial set up of

       DMd HB

WBa CB CB IWBs

Can you cover the flanks better by checking the stay wider when team in possession PI on your CBs? Assuming the HB goes into the middle though I vaguely remember a HB will rotate with an IWB if on the same side. If that is the case we can switch the DM and HB so the rotation occurs where we want.

[Rashidi]

The rest defense needs a static 3 if you plan to do a  3-2 buildout, I don’t think it will be static enough with a Halfback role. Plus any PI used to compensate for movement is only a tendency to move there, it won’t happen all the time. It’s better to use a role that stays wide as part of its hard coding.

[R0ca]

Thanks for posting this Rashidi, great insight as always. 
 

Im really enjoying the IFB role this year as well to riff on what your saying. 
 

I'm using the following back 4 settings and really happy with how it’s working out. 

 

IFBD. CD. BPD WBS. 

             Dlps. 
 

toying with the idea of giving the bdp dribble more when the dlp is right marked by the oppositions CF. 
 

 

[Rashidi]

Rest Attack

Rest defence is about optimal positioning of your players so that your side can defend well upon losing possession of the ball. The spacing of your players allows for effective counterpressing and can should also seek to prevent counters.

A good rest attack will have players ideally positioned for the counter attack when you are defending. Not to be confused with counterpressing. This is entirely about counter attacks. 

You want players and roles who can be your outlet for a solid counter. How well these counters happen depend on your choice of roles and duties and in football manager your team instructions.

I’ve covered a few rest defence set ups earlier, and those were by no means exhaustive.  I will now create a few tactics and treat them like building blocks as we layer the various aspects of the tactical creation process. This will include, rest defence, rest attack, transitions, roles and duties and team instructions.

Let me begin with some unorthodox set ups where the rest defence shape isn’t entirely clear.  Assuming I want to do a 3-2 buildout, what are the steps I would take to set this tactic up and what should I be looking for when I am playing a game.

4231 Halfback

I have created a simple 4231. When creating this tactic there are some roles I expect to see behind the ball when  we are in possession of the ball.

The IFB the CD and the BPD will form a three of sorts, but the halfback complicates things. Since its playing in a double dm configuration he will sometimes play as a wide central defender if there is a libero instead of a CD then the patterns will be different too.

In the build out phase I expect to see this shape, since there is no one rotating with the halfback. He should cover for the FB if he goes on the attack down the right flank.

Once we reach the midfield phase and transition higher up the pitch you can clearly see the lopsided nature of the build out.

The roles that are staying well behind the ball include the halfback and the BPD who are side by side, with the defensive midfielder on the left. The central defender is the last man and the IFB is protecting the left side.

This is our Rest Defence.

We need to ascertain how we do in the transition, next. If we lose the ball can we win it back? Are our players optimally placed? This reveals the quality of the rest defence

When we lose the ball our counter press helps us win the ball back, the players are in a decent position to win the ball back but the positioning of the halfback and the defensive midfielder  implies that I need a very hardworking and fast DM, to support the left flank if needed.

In a system like this I would be well served having final third players who can do most of the work on their own, the most important roles will most likely be the winger, fullback on the right flank and the advanced forward.

We only have the 3-2 shape if we are camped in the opponents half.

REST ATTACK
Our rest attack does not look very good. The formation only has one winger on attack and a lone striker on attack duty. I have gone for an Advanced Forward who can be the focal point of attacks. Its probably the best role seeing we don’t really have too many roles supporting the attack. Worse still if we are defending down the right flank we could end up with  shapes like this, where we have to hope that that our winger on the right flank has enough pace, acceleration vision and passing to play a difficult ball through space.

Now if I wanted to improve the rest attack its probably best if I do it on the same flank where most of my attacks build out. This would be  the right flank.

To adjust this I once again focus on how the different roles perform their rest defence duties.

When we need to press in the centre, there will be times the FB(A) and the HB swap positions,. Its the nature of the HB role when we use it in a double DM position. 

Here as the fullback moves to close down the opposition player he leaves the FB space vacant, the HB then moves to cover that space and perform like a WCB.

The halfback and the FB have now swapped positions, this has implications for our rest defence. There will be occasional positional swaps. We can take advantage of this by asking the winger to go on attack now. I could also change the role of the FB to a WB so he is positioned higher.

When I change roles and duties in a tactic, its to optimise player positioning during transitions allowing me to get better movement on and off the ball.

Now after role and duty change, turning the FB to a WB on attack and the Winger to attack too, we get a more interesting transition.

Now we have the potential of overloading the right side, the triggerman in this system will be the halfback.  The wingback and the winger on attack are all making runs between the channels, if I have a BPD on the right or a halfback with the attributes of a playmaker we could release good attacks between the lines.

When it comes to team instructions, I might consider adding dribble less , pass into space and increasing tempo,  just to encourage these attacks through the lines

The right side overload leads to 2 goals in this game.

Even with those team instructions added we are well in control of this game.

To reiterate:
1. First we looked at our roles and duties to set up what could have been a decent starting point for a 4231
2. We evaluated our Rest Attack and decided we needed a better counter strategy
3. We evaluated the roles and duties and decided to change some to improve our Rest Attack
4. We observed transitions carefully to ensure that during the attacking transition we maintained our Rest Defence. To know that we count to 12 seconds to see if the team counter pressed successfully. 
5. Finally we added team instructions to try more risky passes between the lines after observing there were opportunities.
 

The idea behind rest defences is simple, protect yourself against the counter attack optimally. I like to add to that by considering using the least number of players to control the widest area of space when attacking, which is why I prefer the 3 at the back. Now these rest defences and rest attacks will not always look perfect, and will depend on how you set up roles and duties. I think we shouldn't get too hung up on getting a perfect 3-2 to maintain itself throughout the defensive - attacking transition. Ultimately we just need to experiment with different styles to find something that appeals.

[kbogusz]

I remember back then when you could choose tactics 'fluidity' in FM and tactical creator was a novelty, I remember that I read somewhere (I think it was even written in the creator), that more rigid tactics divide the team to two units, where some players focus only on the defence and some only on the attack. The more fluid the tactics, the less strict that divison is. Those were the times when Guardiola was working at Barcelona and fluid football was in vogue.

Is rest defence and attack connected with more 'rigid' philosophy or is it about something really different?

[Rashidi]

6 hours ago, kbogusz said:

I remember back then when you could choose tactics 'fluidity' in FM and tactical creator was a novelty, I remember that I read somewhere (I think it was even written in the creator), that more rigid tactics divide the team to two units, where some players focus only on the defence and some only on the attack. The more fluid the tactics, the less strict that divison is. Those were the times when Guardiola was working at Barcelona and fluid football was in vogue.

Is rest defence and attack connected with more 'rigid' philosophy or is it about something really different?

That was a really long time ago, tactical fluidity in as far as the creator is concerned, shouldn’t be a concern anymore. Rest Defence, rest attack are merely concepts that have been around for ages but with the new positional play feature understanding them clearly can provide a solid foundation for making tactics.

[R0ca]

2 minutes ago, Rashidi said:

That was a really long time ago, tactical fluidity in as far as the creator is concerned, shouldn’t be a concern anymore. Rest Defence, rest attack are merely concepts that have been around for ages but with the new positional play feature understanding them clearly can provide a solid foundation for making tactics.

Thank you for the video version too Daljit, I read this and watched the video guide (bustthenet) on you tube for those that don’t know. 
 

The written post is obviously great but the video with the in game examples were fantastic. As someone who can’t indulge this hobby like I used to creators like yourself are essential for enhancing our understanding thanks for all of your efforts over the years. 

[R0ca]

Watching the video made me also want to try something like this but it will need a lot of work as the attack is a bit predictable  

 

              SKA

IFB. BPD. LIB. IFB 

        DM.  SV

WS.        T.        W

              AF

We create a wedge with the lib and the dm forming the two as the SV goes forward to support the attacks. 

 In really not keen on two wingers though but I do believe I need width on both sides to create space and open up channels. I haven’t had chance to try this and it needs a lot of work, I dislike all the duties in front of the wedge but I like the general idea. 
 

The more I think about it, the more I want to try the following 

            SKA

IFB. LIB. BDP. IFB

        SV.   RPM

WS.      TBD.     WA

            AF

Edited February 29 by R0ca

[wazzaflow10]

1 hour ago, R0ca said:

Watching the video made me also want to try something like this but it will need a lot of work as the attack is a bit predictable  

 

              SKA

IFB. BPD. LIB. IFB 

        DM.  SV

WS.        T.        W

              AF

We create a wedge with the lib and the dm forming the two as the SV goes forward to support the attacks. 

 In really not keen on two wingers though but I do believe I need width on both sides to create space and open up channels. I haven’t had chance to try this and it needs a lot of work, I dislike all the duties in front of the wedge but I like the general idea. 
 

The more I think about it, the more I want to try the following 

            SKA

IFB. LIB. BDP. IFB

        SV.   RPM

WS.      TBD.     WA

            AF

It's probably one of the issues with the IFB/LIB set up that your wide players almost have to be wingers or inverted wingers so you don't make your attack so narrow.

I've had some success going about it in a slightly different manner using this

                AF

IFs         AMs        Wa

          DLPd   DMs

CWBa CB   BDP    IFB

I'm sure it's lacking a bit of solidarity down the left flank but hasn't cost me yet.

[R0ca]

15 minutes ago, wazzaflow10 said:

It's probably one of the issues with the IFB/LIB set up that your wide players almost have to be wingers or inverted wingers so you don't make your attack so narrow.

I've had some success going about it in a slightly different manner using this

                AF

IFs         AMs        Wa

          DLPd   DMs

CWBa CB   BDP    IFB

I'm sure it's lacking a bit of solidarity down the left flank but hasn't cost me yet.

This looks similar in nature to my current set up with the lob sided wedge Daljit described. 
 

it is solid on the whole but i do feel at risk for faster counters behind my WB. 
 

Having wide players staying wide does have its benefits though, it certainly does open up the middle hence me thinking of the last system basically playing 3-1 with the Libero being the 1. 
 

Hopefully I can have a tinker after work and see how it plays.

 

Ive barely played FM these last few years but these positional plays are are huge, the ai uses the hell out of them and loves to try and dominate the middle. 

[wazzaflow10]

22 minutes ago, R0ca said:

This looks similar in nature to my current set up with the lob sided wedge Daljit described. 
 

it is solid on the whole but i do feel at risk for faster counters behind my WB. 
 

Having wide players staying wide does have its benefits though, it certainly does open up the middle hence me thinking of the last system basically playing 3-1 with the Libero being the 1. 
 

Hopefully I can have a tinker after work and see how it plays.

 

Ive barely played FM these last few years but these positional plays are are huge, the ai uses the hell out of them and loves to try and dominate the middle. 

yeah you'll need an athletic left CB and DLPd to make it work for sure. I haven't had to play any of the big clubs yet. For that I have a 3-4-2-1 I think I'll employ to sit and frustrate them and hope for some counters.

[R0ca]

1 minute ago, wazzaflow10 said:

yeah you'll need an athletic left CB and DLPd to make it work for sure. I haven't had to play any of the big clubs yet. For that I have a 3-4-2-1 I think I'll employ to sit and frustrate them and hope for some counters.

I think 3 at the back system can be very strong. Especially if you want to build out with 3-2. Your wing backs can both hold the attacking width and actually defend the flanks. 
 

if you play with 2ams you also have the opportunity for central overloads with a box midfield. I’m not really a 3 at the back person but bloody hell I think they can be very effective. 

[wazzaflow10]

32 minutes ago, R0ca said:

I think 3 at the back system can be very strong. Especially if you want to build out with 3-2. Your wing backs can both hold the attacking width and actually defend the flanks. 
 

if you play with 2ams you also have the opportunity for central overloads with a box midfield. I’m not really a 3 at the back person but bloody hell I think they can be very effective. 

It feels a bit wasteful when your opponent is only playing with 1 striker but you do manage to keep possession a good bit and recycle attacks more easily.

Typically I do a narrow so I can control the midfield and muddy that down a bit. Plus that just opens up space for the wingbacks. Benefit to that system is fewer moving parts to create the 3-2 build up so for me its more effective at nullifying a team that is much better than you since your players don't have to move in critical areas.

[Rashidi]

Back 3 vs Back 4

Assuming you want a 3-2 build out, a back 3 and a back 4 do these differently and this can have some implications on your system. 

Lets say we used a system like this a simple enough 3421 with 3 central defenders and 4 in midfield. 

In your transition phases, without the ball the team in white could look like this before it needs to get back in defence. If they play the ball out of defence slowly we could see our central defenders slowly collapse making room for the Defensive wingers on the outside.

 

Our Rest Defence could look like this at times where the 3 central defenders are quite close in the attacking phase.

 

More often with 3 central defenders I find that because they need to make room on the outside for wingbacks and defensive wingers, this is how their rest defence usually looks like

The 3 are fairly close together and it compares differently to a back 4 setup.  To get the 3-2 buildout with IFBs we need to use a Libero, lets use this as an example. Here i might be comparing a 5221 narrow to a 433DM wide, both are being played on the same width settings, and yes I do think a better comparison would be between a 523 wide and a 433, but..... when you compare a 442 diamond played with an IFB setup they are still positioned wider than a backline or 3 central defenders. 

Now when they build out their 3-2 shape they can look like this.  They key difference and this is why I think the Libero is one of the best roles in the game is because of how they build out. Since we have a libero, he will push out sometimes and at other times during recycle phases he will drop back in if the other BPD pushes up.

The IFBs in a back 4 system are clearly wider than 3 central defenders in a back 5 or a back 3. 

Here you see a transition shift, as the ball makes its way back from the IFB on the right to the CD on the right the libero will shift back a bit to receive the pass, thereby forming a four.

This movement happens because of the specific role being used.

When I use a 3 man backline, its fairly static. We have 3 defenders usually positioned closer together,  but with a back 4 trying to build out like a 3, its a lot more fluid. Back 3 defensive systems are vulnerable to inside forwards, because central defenders usually dislike defending against someone cutting inside and because a back four playing with a 3-2 buildout will still defend like a back 4 it makes for a better defense against IF's cutting inside. With back 3 systems you need an extra player in the form of a wingback or a defensive winger to do all the tracking. While a 5221 is quite strong, I feel that the 4231, 433 and the 442 if set up with the right roles and duties can still outperform back 3 systems.

Currently back 3 systems are still a bit too defensive in some regards. I do feel that FM24 favours systems that can utilize the positional play features well. To make the back 3 systems a lot more effective, the wingbacks need to be more aggressive in their attacks positioning themselves even higher when used in a back 3 system. Wide centre backs, need to be even wider than they are right now. The advantages of a back 4 playing as a 3-2 build out with the libero give it the luxury of being able to go quite wide in some phases.  To improve back 3 systems, we just need those WCBs to be positioned slightly wider and this in turn should push the wingbacks higher. During build out phases the wingbacks should pivot into attack a bit more aggressively with some roles and when a wingback starts to attack down one flank the other wingback shouldn't stay anchored he too should move higher up. This should happen because we have 3 central defenders.  Back 3 systems have changed in real life but the ones in the match engine haven't moved on. So until SI decide to tweak the WCB in back 3 systems to mimic real life back 3 systems I personally won't be using them. The build out patterns of back 4s are just too good.

 

[Rashidi]

4 hours ago, R0ca said:

think 3 at the back system can be very strong.

Not on FM24. They are defensively strong but in using an extra man in defence they give up something going forward.  In its simplest terms, a back four doing a 3-2 build out is using less players to control space in the build out phase than a back 5. The 3 central defenders won't be as wide as the two IFBs in a back 4. Plus when it comes to ball recycling the way the libero drops back creates a four during the recycling phase. 

[R0ca]

6 minutes ago, Rashidi said:

Not on FM24. They are defensively strong but in using an extra man in defence they give up something going forward.  In its simplest terms, a back four doing a 3-2 build out is using less players to control space in the build out phase than a back 5. The 3 central defenders won't be as wide as the two IFBs in a back 4. Plus when it comes to ball recycling the way the libero drops back creates a four during the recycling phase. 

Yeah I haven’t had chance to try a back 3 it sounded great in theory. But as your images demonstrate those 3 are very narrow with plenty of space on the flank to be exploited during a fast transition. 
 

Would love to read/watch more about how you would design a tactic to incorporate these elements into tactic design from the ground up and the kind of considerations you make for the roles and duties in front of the backline. 

[HanziZoloman]

This one is an excellent example for a 3-2 Rest Defence with a 4231 shape. Billericay (the blues) came in a poor state of form (23rd) and faced Hull City a decent mid-table team. I decided to switch from the usual box build up (explained above) with two CD/ WB and DM into a 3-2 rest defence. I did this because many teams played Wingers against us which is exactly our weakness (see above). I tried the description from above with a HB (Myers) and a BPD (Grainger), Melia is the CB and on the far left there is the IFB. Jones plays WB(A) and Churchus is DM(S). Just look at it, it's beautiful. We won the ball on the right side, Grainger brings Jones into play who then starts to run with the ball. If he loses the ball, Myers and Grainger are not far away to put pressure on the opponent, also the AP is close (30), Churchus can pick up one of the midfielders easily and Melia covers the center threat. Sometimes the BPD Grainger moves forward with the ball and Myers drops back. This time (TI pass into space) Jones plays the ball into the space of the IW(A) (29) who then crosses and the striker (9) finished it for a 5:1 after 6 winless attempts.

Edit: The next match was a 3:0 win against the mentioned box shape build up, crushed over the wings. 

AH, thanks @Rashidi

Edited February 29 by HanziZoloman

[wazzaflow10]

8 hours ago, Rashidi said:

Back 3 defensive systems are vulnerable to inside forwards, because central defenders usually dislike defending against someone cutting inside and because a back four playing with a 3-2 buildout will still defend like a back 4 it makes for a better defense against IF's cutting inside.

Is asking one of your CBs in a back 3 to man mark an IF and have the wingback on the opposite side mark the other a bad idea? I wouldn't want both to do it so that I still have a +1 advantage in the back. I generally think the game lacks a bit in terms of allowing you to set up effective zonal marking or coverage areas.

Edited February 29 by wazzaflow10
context

[De Nile]

Concerning rest attacks how do you exploit the fullback aggressive runs like Ronaldo at Man United and Real Madrid as a winger. He sometimes positions himself after the fullback overcommit and stations as a wide forward. Usually the winger is a bit too defensive and an asymmetric such as a lopsided 433/442 doesn't always defend well.

[Rashidi]

19 hours ago, wazzaflow10 said:

Is asking one of your CBs in a back 3 to man mark an IF and have the wingback on the opposite side mark the other a bad idea? I wouldn't want both to do it so that I still have a +1 advantage in the back. I generally think the game lacks a bit in terms of allowing you to set up effective zonal marking or coverage areas.

It used to be common for coaches to get the outer CBs in back 3s to man mark targets. Man marking can be a decent idea, however, that would mean paying a great deal of attention to everything that happens in the game. Does the act of marking pull the CD out prematurely freeing up space in the middle for a run?  That's the risk, personally I just use tight marking as a PI, and avoid man marking in the game. Using wingbacks to man mark is a safer option in my opinion.

 

18 hours ago, De Nile said:

Concerning rest attacks how do you exploit the fullback aggressive runs like Ronaldo at Man United and Real Madrid as a winger. He sometimes positions himself after the fullback overcommit and stations as a wide forward. Usually the winger is a bit too defensive and an asymmetric such as a lopsided 433/442 doesn't always defend well.

Rest Attacks are basically opportunities for quick counters. You could use a fullback as a first pass receiver, but I reckon he's going to be on an attack duty with an AF ahead of him. In my 433s my wingers are aggressive enough usually sitting on the last line for rest attacks making them ideal pass receivers for deeper passes. The issue for initiating counters actually lies with your choice of players who initiate the pass, do they have good vision, passing and decisions. I haven't tried this out yet, but theoretically, if a fullback had dictates tempo, he could be the one to play that pass, switching the tempo from a measured buildout to one that is more direct if he had good passing vision and decisions. I might even try that in my Destiny livestream. I am toying with the idea of making my IFB(D) learn the trait and since its a trait the issue then becomes it will only be happening some of the time, which is a real bummer when you want to try new ideas out. The issue with that trait is that its a midfielder trait.

[HanziZoloman]

Hey @Rashidi thanks for all input. My HB has dictate tempo, which is a nice touch as he should initiate the counters.

Now I am a team which is recognised as a thread and many will look to play on the counter against my team. I have difficulty against those sitting back. Anything you write about how to make rest attack useful here? 
maybe even including an AP in AM position and make him work?

Edited March 1 by HanziZoloman

[wazzaflow10]

5 hours ago, Rashidi said:

It used to be common for coaches to get the outer CBs in back 3s to man mark targets. Man marking can be a decent idea, however, that would mean paying a great deal of attention to everything that happens in the game. Does the act of marking pull the CD out prematurely freeing up space in the middle for a run?  That's the risk, personally I just use tight marking as a PI, and avoid man marking in the game. Using wingbacks to man mark is a safer option in my opinion.

Yes this is my fear. I can already picture a RCB will bolt for an IF immediately after a change of possession and allow way to much space for a CF to run into.

In real life its much easier to coordinate the timing of when the man marking should happen obviously. I'd like to think that when facing a front 3 that you could coordinate a sort of defensive back 4 that accounts for each player and provides defensive cover with an extra man.

Appreciate the theory and tips in this posts. I've already incorporated a good deal into my save and am seeing some fantastic results and patterns of play.

[FeyenoordKings]

Hello Daljit I enjoyed your recent shows and you make great points and that five at the back has issues against IFs is a valid point.

But on the other hand, if you play the Stones role with a worse team wouldn't there be issues in defensive transition when the guy comes back? Whenever I played like this this was a huge issue unfortunately.

Thanks.

[Rashidi]

14 hours ago, FeyenoordKings said:

Hello Daljit I enjoyed your recent shows and you make great points and that five at the back has issues against IFs is a valid point.

But on the other hand, if you play the Stones role with a worse team wouldn't there be issues in defensive transition when the guy comes back? Whenever I played like this this was a huge issue unfortunately.

Thanks.

It all boils down the how you chose a player for that role. Naturally it’s going to be harder to find one which is why with weaker sides I use a 424 which has another kind of rest defence. All I need to do then is understand that rest defence and have the right players. I have used a libero with weaker sides, it’s much harder and not always successful, so I use different build out patterns like a box build out common in double dm systems.

How many teams in real life can one actually pull off a “Stones” role? Not many I dare say.

[gunnerfan]

One of the things that FM lacks is a realistic laboratory for developing tactics. When one takes over a team, one is confronted with the need to create a new tactic on Day One. I do this by spending time studying my new players, their best roles and attributes, and piecing together a tactic I think will work. If I’ve arrived on the scene during the season, I have no choice but to test my tactic in ongoing competitions (of course, I can cheat and quit-no-save results I don’t like, but that hardly feels realistic). If I arrive on the scene during the offseason, I can use pre-season friendlies, but I’m also using those to evaluate players. 
 

IRL, a lot of tinkering and experimenting would take place on the training pitch. It would be great if the Match Practice session included an option for tactical review, so that one could break down tactics, player and role by role, to see how they work.

I know this belongs in the Desired Future Features section, but I’m posting it here because this discussion really brings into focus how useful a feature like this would be, and I’d like to know how @rashidi and others on this thread would view it.

[Lira95]

To be honest, I'm kinda streesed with FM24 when it comes to defending. No matter what formation I use, or instructions, if you're playing away, you're more likely to get smashed and concede. Specially after a set-piece. Your defenders can't even tackle, it looks like they're ghosts

[Cloud9]

22 minutes ago, Lira95 said:

To be honest, I'm kinda streesed with FM24 when it comes to defending. No matter what formation I use, or instructions, if you're playing away, you're more likely to get smashed and concede. Specially after a set-piece. Your defenders can't even tackle, it looks like they're ghosts

Well, more things can easily go wrong in a defensive approach. You can post your tactic if you're struggling but most of the issues come down to 1. Overly passive defensive tactics (in goal scoring threat and in exerting influence on opposition out of possession) 2. Wrong players for the defensive approach.

Little things like leaving "counter press" on for example, will make you really easily to play through and are far less punishing in a high lines system.

Edited March 3 by Cloud9

[Rashidi]

PUTTING THE PIECES TOGETHER

FM24 is very different from previous editions, if you are the sort not to tweak your tactic and one that hopes your tactic is "great" and will work without changes then you might have issues with the game moving forward because of the positional play feature. The AI will change roles and duties during a game, it will change its team instructions as well. A change from an IWB to a WB is a big change because it affects how that flank will operate defensively. If the AI opts to use a RPM and then change it to a DM, thats a major change because now it seeks to hold its ground with a role instead of asking a player to rotate between 3 tiers.  

So its always going to be easier playing attacking football with high possession when trying to win games. Incessant pressure could eventually yield positive results, but if you don't know how your teams rest defence is going to leave you vulnerable, then don't be surprised if the AI scores an equaliser or a winner in the dying moments of the game.  What if you are a weaker team, can't you play with low block systems? Yes.

When playing with low block systems, you have more players behind the ball, here’s where things get challenging. Low block systems don’t always create a large number of goalscoring chances. That’s what makes low block systems more challenging, you can defend well enough if you find players with good  defensive attributes, but if you can’t use those few counter attacking chances effectively you are going to struggle. Low block systems aren’t easier, they are in fact harder to pull off. A good low block requires you to think carefully about your Rest Attack, your choice of roles and duties to lead the counter and the roles and duties of those players that need to trigger and start the counter.

LOW BLOCK SYSTEMS AND PASS INTO SPACE

If you are a top side playing a low block system then most average and below average sides will struggle if you opt not to pass into space each time. As your defensive lines remain compact, space in the channels evaporate. Teams who don’t have the ability will run out of passing options and if your team has the quality it can easily move the ball up and overpower teams.  If your team was an average team and opted to use pass into space with direct passing on higher tempo, then each time you win the ball back you could find your side hoofing the ball up, giving it back to the opposition if the pass wasn't good enough to find that attack duty in space.  A manager needs to make that decision and in the following video I show you with transitions what I mean.  

Generally if you want to play a low block you have two choices and you need to look at the game and evaluate your choice. If you opt to pass into space, are those transitions leading to shots on goal? If they are, then stick with the pass into space. If those ball clearances are almost always finding an opposition player which don't look to a shot at goal then remove the pass into space instruction.

OPTIMIZING YOUR CHOICES

A good rest defence is about the optimal positioning of your players when you have possession of the ball. A good rest attack is about optimal positioning of your players when you are defending in your half. The next step after setting up your rest setups is identifying your transition. It becomes easier when you know what your rest defence and rest attack look like.

In this  short video  I manage newly promoted Gloucester City and features 4 tactical systems. In the video I will explain:

The rest defence shape of a 4132, 4231, 442, 424 and 523. Each formation covers something different. In one of them I identify a key transition where I am looking at the matchup between 2 roles. Once you start learning how different roles operate, and spot the changes the AI makes during the course of a game you can and should think about how it affects your system.

I also look at the AI formation and choose a different role based on  how I want to create goal scoring changes

The use of low crosses is even more effective when you can tell that your side is consistently going to the byeline to cross. I will show that on the video and when I kick in that instruction.

 

There are several steps in becoming better at controlling space and defending well on football manager:

1. Learn how different roles and duties rotate through  the positional play feature. This is important because, these movements can sometimes open up space. Here are a few examples:

An Inverted Wingback moves into the DM tier when the side is transitioning up the pitch. If he is slow, has poor work rate and concentration, then the flanks are vulnerable to Wingers on attack, forcing him to cover more ground.

A roaming playmaker covers a lot of ground, he will move from the DM -MC - AMC tier.  Unless he has fantastic attributes he might whither away during the latter stages of the game making him susceptible to a high tempo attack.

An AP will move up a tier, and if he is playing in a 442, you can force the wingers onto the flank away from the AP using opposition instructions like show onto foot, thus limiting him as a passing choice.

The IF and the Winger both have different movement patterns, learn to identify them, because applying a player instruction to an IF asking him to stay wide isn’t as effective as playing a left footed player on the right flank as a winger. You get a player who will ALWAYS be wide cos you are using a role.

The Libero rotates up in midfield, he potentially leaves a gap. Great for 3-2 buildouts but the central defender left behind needs to be world class. You can use a libero in the lower tiers as long as you remember that attributes are relative to the competition you are playing in.

I have done a detailed post on the positional play feature on FM24 here so go check that out if you have doubts.

2. Identify your rest defence. You don’t always need to play a 3-2 buildout, you just need to know the vulnerabilities of your rest defence and mitigate against it.

3. Once a team sets up in their rest defence shape, is when you begin looking for the transition. That’s when you look for players that might need a role change, to better encourage a searching risky pass, or the use of pass into space. 

4. When you need to defend the moment your team gets into its Rest Attack shape you start looking out for players ready to attack. This is easy. Look for when our team is deep in its own half and defending . When your team wins the ball back who is the first to react furthest from your goal? Then work your way back. Does that AF have support? Who will pass the ball to him? Should you use an NCB or a BPD?  A simple rest attack could be an AF/Winger on attack, or a Winger on attack with 2 strikers. My 424 example in the video actually has 4 roles in a rest attack setup. Two wingers and two strikers making it very potent on the counter.

5. Once you understand the different rest defences and their weaknesses. Play to your strengths. If I see an IWB in the opposition team, I will play a winger on attack down  that flank to make him cover a lot of ground. If I see a back three system and I am playing with AML/R I will change them to IFs so they are narrower and attack the central defenders directly.  

I am not suggesting you need to make major tactical changes. In most of my games you normally just see me making a role/duty or OI change and that is usually enough. Perhaps sometimes I might feel a bit crazy and might throw everything at the opposition. Each decision is predicated on me looking at their rest defence, roles and duties before I come to such a decision.
 

[Cloud9]

2 hours ago, Rashidi said:

PUTTING THE PIECES TOGETHER

FM24 is very different from previous editions, if you are the sort not to tweak your tactic and one that hopes your tactic is "great" and will work without changes then you might have issues with the game moving forward because of the positional play feature. The AI will change roles and duties during a game, it will change its team instructions as well. A change from an IWB to a WB is a big change because it affects how that flank will operate defensively. If the AI opts to use a RPM and then change it to a DM, thats a major change because now it seeks to hold its ground with a role instead of asking a player to rotate between 3 tiers.  

So its always going to be easier playing attacking football with high possession when trying to win games. Incessant pressure could eventually yield positive results, but if you don't know how your teams rest defence is going to leave you vulnerable, then don't be surprised if the AI scores an equaliser or a winner in the dying moments of the game.  What if you are a weaker team, can't you play with low block systems? Yes.

When playing with low block systems, you have more players behind the ball, here’s where things get challenging. Low block systems don’t always create a large number of goalscoring chances. That’s what makes low block systems more challenging, you can defend well enough if you find players with good  defensive attributes, but if you can’t use those few counter attacking chances effectively you are going to struggle. Low block systems aren’t easier, they are in fact harder to pull off. A good low block requires you to think carefully about your Rest Attack, your choice of roles and duties to lead the counter and the roles and duties of those players that need to trigger and start the counter.

LOW BLOCK SYSTEMS AND PASS INTO SPACE

If you are a top side playing a low block system then most average and below average sides will struggle if you opt not to pass into space each time. As your defensive lines remain compact, space in the channels evaporate. Teams who don’t have the ability will run out of passing options and if your team has the quality it can easily move the ball up and overpower teams.  If your team was an average team and opted to use pass into space with direct passing on higher tempo, then each time you win the ball back you could find your side hoofing the ball up, giving it back to the opposition if the pass wasn't good enough to find that attack duty in space.  A manager needs to make that decision and in the following video I show you with transitions what I mean.  

Generally if you want to play a low block you have two choices and you need to look at the game and evaluate your choice. If you opt to pass into space, are those transitions leading to shots on goal? If they are, then stick with the pass into space. If those ball clearances are almost always finding an opposition player which don't look to a shot at goal then remove the pass into space instruction.

OPTIMIZING YOUR CHOICES

A good rest defence is about the optimal positioning of your players when you have possession of the ball. A good rest attack is about optimal positioning of your players when you are defending in your half. The next step after setting up your rest setups is identifying your transition. It becomes easier when you know what your rest defence and rest attack look like.

In this  short video  I manage newly promoted Gloucester City and features 4 tactical systems. In the video I will explain:

The rest defence shape of a 4132, 4231, 442, 424 and 523. Each formation covers something different. In one of them I identify a key transition where I am looking at the matchup between 2 roles. Once you start learning how different roles operate, and spot the changes the AI makes during the course of a game you can and should think about how it affects your system.

I also look at the AI formation and choose a different role based on  how I want to create goal scoring changes

The use of low crosses is even more effective when you can tell that your side is consistently going to the byeline to cross. I will show that on the video and when I kick in that instruction.

 

There are several steps in becoming better at controlling space and defending well on football manager:

1. Learn how different roles and duties rotate through  the positional play feature. This is important because, these movements can sometimes open up space. Here are a few examples:

An Inverted Wingback moves into the DM tier when the side is transitioning up the pitch. If he is slow, has poor work rate and concentration, then the flanks are vulnerable to Wingers on attack, forcing him to cover more ground.

A roaming playmaker covers a lot of ground, he will move from the DM -MC - AMC tier.  Unless he has fantastic attributes he might whither away during the latter stages of the game making him susceptible to a high tempo attack.

An AP will move up a tier, and if he is playing in a 442, you can force the wingers onto the flank away from the AP using opposition instructions like show onto foot, thus limiting him as a passing choice.

The IF and the Winger both have different movement patterns, learn to identify them, because applying a player instruction to an IF asking him to stay wide isn’t as effective as playing a left footed player on the right flank as a winger. You get a player who will ALWAYS be wide cos you are using a role.

The Libero rotates up in midfield, he potentially leaves a gap. Great for 3-2 buildouts but the central defender left behind needs to be world class. You can use a libero in the lower tiers as long as you remember that attributes are relative to the competition you are playing in.

I have done a detailed post on the positional play feature on FM24 here so go check that out if you have doubts.

2. Identify your rest defence. You don’t always need to play a 3-2 buildout, you just need to know the vulnerabilities of your rest defence and mitigate against it.

3. Once a team sets up in their rest defence shape, is when you begin looking for the transition. That’s when you look for players that might need a role change, to better encourage a searching risky pass, or the use of pass into space. 

4. When you need to defend the moment your team gets into its Rest Attack shape you start looking out for players ready to attack. This is easy. Look for when our team is deep in its own half and defending . When your team wins the ball back who is the first to react furthest from your goal? Then work your way back. Does that AF have support? Who will pass the ball to him? Should you use an NCB or a BPD?  A simple rest attack could be an AF/Winger on attack, or a Winger on attack with 2 strikers. My 424 example in the video actually has 4 roles in a rest attack setup. Two wingers and two strikers making it very potent on the counter.

5. Once you understand the different rest defences and their weaknesses. Play to your strengths. If I see an IWB in the opposition team, I will play a winger on attack down  that flank to make him cover a lot of ground. If I see a back three system and I am playing with AML/R I will change them to IFs so they are narrower and attack the central defenders directly.  

I am not suggesting you need to make major tactical changes. In most of my games you normally just see me making a role/duty or OI change and that is usually enough. Perhaps sometimes I might feel a bit crazy and might throw everything at the opposition. Each decision is predicated on me looking at their rest defence, roles and duties before I come to such a decision.
 

Great write up on making successful tweaks in defence  I'm enjoying the structure given by the double WB(d) in a back 4 in my own save as well!

[R0ca]

Such valuable information in this thread, I hope anyone who is struggling with the game gives it a read as they will come back a better player. 

[Bahnzo]

I play primarily a 442 right now. I really like how positional play with the WB's changes how my team plays overall. Normally, my team plays down the wings, utilizing the WB's primarily to buildup play. But, if I change the WB's to a IFB and an IWB, then it completely changes everything and my team will play more centrally. It's a nice way to changup things if my attack isn't working as well as I'd hoped. 

One thing I'm noticing, is how narrow the rest defense is playing what I describe above, vs one where you use a Libero with both the WB's set as IFB's. I can't get them to play as wide with a IFB-BDP-CD-IWB backline vs the libero one as IFB-Lib-BPD-IFB. They play narrower and don't seem to provide cover on the wings as well as the Libero and 2 IFB's does.

Edited March 5 by Bahnzo

[R0ca]

4 hours ago, Bahnzo said:

I play primarily a 442 right now. I really like how positional play with the WB's changes how my team plays overall. Normally, my team plays down the wings, utilizing the WB's primarily to buildup play. But, if I change the WB's to a IFB and an IWB, then it completely changes everything and my team will play more centrally. It's a nice way to changup things if my attack isn't working as well as I'd hoped. 

One thing I'm noticing, is how narrow the rest defense is playing what I describe above, vs one where you use a Libero with both the WB's set as IFB's. I can't get them to play as wide with a IFB-BDP-CD-IWB backline vs the libero one as IFB-Lib-BPD-IFB. They play narrower and don't seem to provide cover on the wings as well as the Libero and 2 IFB's does.

Absolutely, what you’ve spoken about is the trade off rashidi mentioned in his posts and videos. 
 

The positive thing is your aware of the potential issue and can mitigate it, especially if you see the Ai breaking into those spaces. 

[R0ca]

I’m really enjoying putting some of this into practice, and probably the best aspect of this post is how much help it gives when creating tactics. 
 

if you are consistently getting hit with quicker counters it might just be your rest depth and control of space causing you issues. 
 

I’m currently using a lop sided wedge that Rashidi has mentioned in his earlier posts. 

             Gk

IFB  DC  BPD  WBS

        SVS  DLPS

WS         TQ      IFA

               P

The con is obviously I’m vulnerable on the flank of the wingback, the ai definitely does exploit it at times but the I’m willing to make the trade off as having a wingback provides the overall set up with good balance, I have width on both sides as I’m using a wingback and a winger, this also opens up lanes for the TQ and sv. 
 

I also find a 4231to be very flexible in terms of both rest defence set ups and build out patterns. Anyone struggling decide on a shape should give it a go, you can even knock off Rashidi gambit and Morph it in to the 4231 if my team weren’t humming along so nicely I’d try myself. 
 

Knock off gambit to test 

 

            Sks

ifb bpd lib s ifb

      Svs rpm

W.       SS.     W

          AF

[Rashidi]

On 06/03/2024 at 19:53, R0ca said:

I also find a 4231to be very flexible in terms of both rest defence set ups and build out patterns.

I think the 4231 can be an excellent low block system as well. Once you understand what to look out for you can easily build a system that can sit deep and hit teams on the counter. The next sections of this will be devoted to the the crafting of low block systems. High possession attacking systems are only vulnerable if you don't understand the vulnerabilities in your own rest defence.

[Rashidi]

THE CRAFT -  LOW BLOCK
LEARN HOW TO ADAPT

In the previous section I shared some quick tips on adapting, here’s a primer:

1. Inverted wingbacks and inverted fullbacks cover a lot of ground, IWBs are especially prone to a winger attack  should their team lose possession, since they need to return to their fullback defending positions. IFBs are a bit more harder they are already in a wider position, but, forcing them down the flanks leaves the centre slightly vulnerable to a central midfielder attacking there or a second striker.

2.  Three man defences are vulnerable to inside forwards. Consider changing to this role if you face a 3 man defence which is also playing wingbacks.  An IF attacks the central defender directly leaving little time for the wingback to lend support.

3. The mezzala and carrilero operate in the halfspace during buildup. To break that rest defence up consider how a central midfield attacking pattern can increase pressure on the these roles forcing them to central areas.  This can disrupt their tempo.

4. The roaming playmaker and the segundo volante, will leave their positions to support play, the flanks they operate on can be vulnerable. When playing as a low block I tend to use IFBs on that side of the flank to prevent further attacks and attack their more defensive sides.  If you attack them down the same flank they are building up attacks, you need to observe the transitions well, because you can never lose the ball down that flank. If you do you will leave a lot of space open.

PRINCIPLES OF THE LOW BLOCK

The low block is harder to play than a high block. That’s because you are allowing teams to build play up and then attack you. A good low block is only as good as its rest attack. Teams sitting back need an effective way to build play out. If they opt to go direct and into space then good use of the ball is needed otherwise they would just be handing possession back to the opposition.

This makes low blocks more challenging than high blocks. You need to pay attention to what the opposition is doing since you are depending on winning the ball back and doing something with it. You need to nullify attacks from the opposition before launching your own attacks.

A good low low block needs excellent defenders. Newcastle is a good example of a team in real life operating with a low block with average players. The defenders have excellent physical attributes and are also proficient in the air. This allows them to sit back and soak in deep lines. On the counter they have pace, this gives them an option. All they then need is a good rest attack to take advantage of counter attacks.

To play a low block well you need to:

• Have a strong, capable defensive unit
• Have options for the counter
• Be able to assess what the AI is doing and adapt

LOW BLOCK 4231

This is the low block system I am currently using on my livestreams in the bundesliga. We are definitely not a middling side and can be considered one of the top 4 sides in the league.

Requirements
Defenders with good jumping reach, height, strength, heading and marking
DLP with passing, composure, vision
Attackers with crossing, acceleration
Shadow Striker - One touch passing (Trait), Jumping Reach (12 and higher), Acceleration, Passing, Composure
Striker - Jumping Reach, Acceleration, Off the ball, Composure

The set up is very simple, with the wingback on attack duty down the left flank, it has a glaring vulnerability. If the AI chooses to attack me down that same flank, my rest attack is done, in fact I could even have issues building play out since I really only use the left flank.

In this game, even though we had a nice buildout pattern on the right side of the pitch, the play rotated to the left flank, and the main driver for the attack was the wingback.

We don’t have any player instructions on my wingback because I like them to play with some freedom, he cuts inside plays the pass to the shadow striker who also without any PIs plays a tasty through ball to the striker lays it up for the Inside Forward. Its the basis of our Rest Attack.  The IF has come inside to join the attack.

 

There are plenty of ways to play a low block but there are going to be two main themes in all of them. You are either sitting back and hopefully punting, or you are sitting back and using the ball well. I prefer doing the latter, so I hardly ever play with pass into space or direct passing. I believe I have the quality to do that. And the quality of your team should determine the type of low block you can pull off. My Gloucester team are a single digit attribute team playing in a league where the average attribute is 11. We are far off the pace physically so if I play the low block there, I know that against better sides its better if we attack secure a lead before sitting back in a low block, or we just play an attacking brand of football.

Defending as a weaker team is possible, you just need to keep the ball when you do it. If you counter into space then you need the players who can pass and attack the space. In both systems you still need to adapt.

Hoffenhiem was a team we lost to away and at home last season, they are a team that’s qualified for the Europa league, this season playing a low block at home we trounced them 6 without reply.

ADAPTING TO THE OPPOSITION ATTACK

The Hoffenheim game was surprisingly easy, our next game however proved to be a bigger challenge. We were playing against a team that was attacking us down the same flank we were attacking on. In fact we conceded two goals down that flank. Realising that I flipped my formation and attacked them down the flank where they were more defensive.

 

Adapting and reacting to changes is why I am going to keep playing the low block.  Some context. I am playing in a long term save where i am in leagues with players operating with 200CA/PA I am not allowed to sign them, all they have to is prevent me from winning the title or making it to Europe.

Our record since we moved to low blocks has been 7 wins 1 draw in all competitions.  36 goals in 8 games scored and 6 goals conceded. Low blocks are not for everyone, you need to be a masochist to enjoy them. And if you are the sort who struggles with identifying transitions and adapting on the fly, then you should stick to attacking systems.

[R0ca]

9 minutes ago, Rashidi said:

I think the 4231 can be an excellent low block system as well. Once you understand what to look out for you can easily build a system that can sit deep and hit teams on the counter. The next sections of this will be devoted to the the crafting of low block systems. High possession attacking systems are only vulnerable if you don't understand the vulnerabilities in your own rest defence.

Absolutely, this thread and the companion videos have been eye openers and should be pinned imo, but you’ve broke me Daljit, now every day tactic I see I immediately look for the defensive wedge, if I don’t see it my first thought is the ai playing on the counter might punish. 
 

This rings especially true for a 4231 with a box CM set up which is the way I always played it prior to your post, now I can’t get enough of IFB. 

[jc577]

On 05/03/2024 at 03:26, Rashidi said:

4. When you need to defend the moment your team gets into its Rest Attack shape you start looking out for players ready to attack. This is easy. Look for when our team is deep in its own half and defending . When your team wins the ball back who is the first to react furthest from your goal? Then work your way back. Does that AF have support? Who will pass the ball to him? Should you use an NCB or a BPD?  A simple rest attack could be an AF/Winger on attack, or a Winger on attack with 2 strikers. My 424 example in the video actually has 4 roles in a rest attack setup. Two wingers and two strikers making it very potent on the counter.

What would you say are formations with good potential for a rest attack? I'm trying to build a mid-block, quick transition system, and looking at 3412, 343, and 3421.

[Rashidi]

I think people are thinking that “magic terms”  like a Rest Defence and Rest Attack are only available in specific formations. All formations give you some kind of shape/option when you have the ball and when you don’t. You can easily have good options when you are defending and have players ready for the counter.

An example is the 442, if you were defending and had a winger on attack with 2 strikers that’s your rest attack. Analysts use terms like this to identify and name specific transition events.  To answer your question it depends on your players. I am now specifically playing a 442 with Everton and have a counter attacking option with 3 roles, the winger and 2 strikers.

 

[jamesh123]

How would you say these two systems fair with the positional play rotations? I've tried to design two systems for a 2-3 and a 3-2 build up, and it does play out nicely, but is there any roles which could clash when the rotations are triggered?

[jc577]

8 hours ago, Rashidi said:

I think people are thinking that “magic terms”  like a Rest Defence and Rest Attack are only available in specific formations. All formations give you some kind of shape/option when you have the ball and when you don’t. You can easily have good options when you are defending and have players ready for the counter.

An example is the 442, if you were defending and had a winger on attack with 2 strikers that’s your rest attack. Analysts use terms like this to identify and name specific transition events.  To answer your question it depends on your players. I am now specifically playing a 442 with Everton and have a counter attacking option with 3 roles, the winger and 2 strikers.

This makes sense. So in. 3412 with a DLF-A & AF supported by an AM-A, that would be the rest attack?

[Novem9]

This is definitely a more comprehensive and complex system than the pairs and combinations from past FMs. Time to rethink a lot of things, forget old postulates.

I've had some success with a cautious mentality in FM24. The game detected my hybrid style as "wing play." Now I understand how FM24 defines "fluid counter" and "direct counter" styles. 

I still have to carefully re-read your posts. But already check some things, especially I like this game:

Avg pos with ball

Tactic:

 

My question - any sence to use more often trigger press in this, in your opinion?

And thank you for this useful thread, @Rashidi

 

P.S. What worries me is how much AI managers use the new system? It feels like many of the AI characters are playing the “old fashioned” way, which is why we see hockey scores in some matches

Edited April 1 by Novem9

[Novem9]

Just wow! Really enjoy how my 4231 transforms into 2+3 in defence and 2+3 in attack! Thank you @Rashidi

Defensive:

Attacking:

[HanziZoloman]

Thanks again for the wonderful work @Rashidi it has been so much helpful recently