Football Manager 2016 - 16.2.0 Official feedback thread

[Shakes]

Have to agree there's a lot of crosses because the full backs still have a tendency to tuck in a bit much leaving a lot of space for wide players. The overall cross completion ratio might look right, but that feels more that accuracy of crosses has been tweaked low to make up for how many wide open chances for crosses there are. The result is when a cross does connect and a goal is scored the defending often looks pretty clown shoes. Of course people are going to see the examples where the cross connect a lot more than the misses because aint nobody got time for watching matches on full.

As a general comment on the balance of crosses and whether it's good to watch, I have found the most fun match engine iterations to be the ones where people have complained of super dribblers. Much more enjoyable to watch goals where someone cuts past defenders like they're traffic cones and blasts it in.

[Shake Appeal]

On the subject of crosses, these goals happened five games apart:

[video=youtube;dNEsyF9qazg]

[video=youtube;aUGyfNLp-jQ]

[Sarin1]

The majority of my goals come from through balls from my midfield to one of my strikers to run on to.

You post that the majority of your goals come from through balls.

Then you put up an image showing you scored 32 from crosses, and 21 from through balls.

[An Olive Branch]

I think that the problem I am having isn't just that the goals come from crosses, but that they come from crosses where my striker is unmarked 2 yards in front of the keeper.

Roughly 50% of my goals have come from crosses the highest by far (47 cross assists in last 50), compared with 16% of my goals conceded (11).

What these statistics don't show is that my striker is always unmarked to tap in - rather than competing with defenders.

It is all very well showing the amount of goals from crosses is right overall, but as I said earlier that is clearly irrelevant as there exists the tactical possiblity to skew it, so the only reason the stats show that is that people aren't using those skewed tactics in the test batch. It means the ME is OK overall, but in no way precludes the existence of this tactical glitch - which obviously my AI opponents haven't been using either.

I didn't even intend to exploit this ME glitch, I was just tinkering trying to find something realistic and ended up with this which feels like cheating, but which I am reluctant to change just for the sake of it.

[jc1]

Just as well you weren't at the Stadium of Light on Saturday then as Patrick Van Aanholt let the ball run out for a corner just around the bottom corner of the penalty box when he could easily have kept it in and whipped it back across as the Villa defence were all over the place. But no, he let it run out for a corner, and they cleared it.

So, some of these things do happen at the top level.

Dave there's a big difference from an attacker accepting a corner and a defender needlessly clearing a ball when the obvious thing to do was to let it roll out for a goal kick.

[Dagenham_Dave]

You post that the majority of your goals come from through balls.

Then you put up an image showing you scored 32 from crosses, and 21 from through balls.

They were the last time I had checked it, hence why I posted that. In fact there's a screenshot a few pages back showing this. When I was getting the screengrab yesterday, there has clearly been an upturn in crossed goals recently, and I did mention this in the post with the screenshot that I'd had to tweak my tactic a bit, which has clearly led to more goals from crosses at this point, although that was never really the intention. Sometimes it just works out that way. Thankfully I'm not the kind of person who gets totally hung up on goal and assist statistics having to exactly mirror real life, I tend to just play the game and try and enjoy it.

Edit - Just checked it again, and it's a 27-25 split now, so heading in the right direction again.

[An Olive Branch]

Thankfully I'm not the kind of person who gets totally hung up on goal and assist statistics having to exactly mirror real life, I tend to just play the game and try and enjoy it.

I'm trying to enjoy it too, but instead the game is making me feel like a cheat due to what it is showing me in the match, later confirmed by the stats

[Seb Wassell]

On the subject of crosses, these goals happened five games apart:

Hey Shake Appeal,

Those would be worth posting about in here - http://community.sigames.com/forumdisplay.php/505-Match-Engine-Issues - along with the PKM. Details on uploading can be found in there.

Cheers,

Seb.

[An Olive Branch]

I'm trying to enjoy it too, but instead the game is making me feel like a cheat due to what it is showing me in the match, later confirmed by the stats

Since this post I've lost 4 on the trot, scoring 2 and conceding 16, knocking me out the Europa League semis and dropping me from 1st to 4th with 5 games left.

If I didn't know better I'd think SI could access your account remotely for punitive action haha

Edit - make that 6 on the trot, 2-21

[Kbond]

Hey Shake Appeal,

Those would be worth posting about in here - http://community.sigames.com/forumdisplay.php/505-Match-Engine-Issues - along with the PKM. Details on uploading can be found in there.

Cheers,

Seb.

Hey Seb! I would love to get a feedback from you about this... Please checkout and ask the game staff about their impressions too if possible.

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/448926-A-simple-and-nice-ideia-for-the-game

Thanks!

[HUNT3R]

Hey Seb! I would love to get a feedback from you about this... Please checkout and ask the game staff about their impressions too if possible.

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/448926-A-simple-and-nice-ideia-for-the-game

Thanks!

Kbond, your idea is being discussed in the thread. You've also been asked to post the idea in the wishlist thread - the thread SI monitor for ideas for features in the game.

This is the feedback thread, which should be left for feedback, please.

[An Olive Branch]

Has anyone noticed that if you are full NT manager and the FA sack your u19 manager, you can just hire him back again the same day?

Why do the FA take charge of firing but not hiring? Am I missing something in responsibilities? Is there a better way SI can set this up?

[Guest]

Sounds like a potential bug.

[Freakiie]

Well, considering the absurd ratings FBs receive and the amount of assists that come from FBs/WBs I wouldn't say that the AI is all that good in defending crosses either. Heck, in my Bayern save Dortmund got Aleix Vidal, played him as DR (probably CWB/A juding from his positioning) and he racked up the assists, MoMs and Player of the Season awards. Considering that FB defending is pretty lackluster it even makes perfect sense to play like that. They barely defend anyway, might as well get someone that can abuse that on the other side with good offensive stats.

Whole crossing thing aside though, am I the only one who thinks it's weird that the "team was disappointing" teamtalk combines perfectly well with individual "unlucky" teamtalk? You tell your team they weren't good enough, players get motivated, then you're like "oh AssMan can take individual talks, lets see what he says" and he gives basically the entire team an individual "unlucky" talk and bam, supposedly motivation just went through the roof, even after the AssMan adviced you to tell the team they weren't good enough for the overal team talk.

If you try that with for example "disappointing" and then singling out one or two players that played well with "did well" the positive effects from the overal teamtalk can disappear and if you take it too far, praising multiple players it can completely backfire and almost everyone loses morale. So how come you can tell everyone they were unlucky (which implies it wasn't their fault they lost, at least in my eyes it does) after telling the team they weren't good enough, but you can't tell players after a disappointing performance that some of them still performed well?

[Sussex Hammer]

Can you spot the sending off in the clip?

5 games into a new season and I have already had 3 sending's off. Carl Jenkinson for two yellows and my Captain Mark Noble twice. This little gem was upon his return after a three game ban for a Bruce Lee style karate kick into the midriff of an opponent for absolutely no reason whatsoever! With this dismissal I actually had to rewind as I hadn't understood as to why he was suddenly getting his marching orders. On first look it looks like just a coming together, the match report suggests a trip and yet it actually looks like a girly kick out at the player off the ball. But why?! Captain of the Club, back from a three match ban after being warned by myself on his conduct after the previous sending off, aggression 14, composure 15, decisions 13, leadership 18, has a competitive streak and does dive into tackles but he is hardly Joey Barton!! Plus if I fine him for a second dismissal in 2 games he is shocked and sees the fine as unfair!!!

[video=youtube;DI2ecx4f_jA]

[An Olive Branch]

Maybe not what you want to hear but I quite like this. Never seen it in any of my games so it's not being over-done as far as my admittedly limited test data is concerned.

I get your point he should be calm and was recently warned etc, but you can't ever rule something like that out IRL either.

[Sussex Hammer]

Maybe not what you want to hear but I quite like this. Never seen it in any of my games so it's not being over-done as far as my admittedly limited test data is concerned.

I get your point he should be calm and was recently warned etc, but you can't ever rule something like that out IRL either.

Fair point but...... If he hadn't been coming back from a three game ban I could understand it to an extent. If he had been fouled himself previously or had a running battle with a Spurs player and some frustration came out again I could understand it. But there is nothing to suggest in the match report that he had been fouled or wound up in any way. It's just out of the blue after already having a yellow card for a trip on a come back from a three match ban. Now at the very least if he is going to be that stupid he should accept a fine after being warned the first time rather than being "shocked" by it. In fact some would probably go as far as taking the Captaincy away for two sending's off in two games. I wouldn't mind so much if it happened to the AI teams once in a while!! Fortunately unlike in FM15 when I would have collapsed I did hold out for a win but it would just be nice to have a reason behind it and then have a way to manage it properly.

[An Olive Branch]

Sorry I didn't read the bit about him being shocked for being fined. That bit clearly isn't right unless he's a total nutjob, which obviously Mark Noble (or a player with those stats) shouldn't be.

I like the fact that even he is capable of doing it, but not that he can't accept his mistake after.

[Guest]

As it's not clear what happened it's worth posting in the ME bugs forum & providing SI with a copy of the match pkm.

[Sussex Hammer]

As it's not clear what happened it's worth posting in the ME bugs forum & providing SI with a copy of the match pkm.

Thanks, have done.

[Shake Appeal]

Your "mistake" was fining a player for two yellows.

1. Warn (don't fine) a player for two yellows.

2. Fine them one week's pay for a professional foul straight red (and a one-match ban).

3. Fine them two weeks' pay for violent conduct (and multiple-match bans).

I don't know why it's so formulaic, but this is what works with every player, regardless of their personality. You may still need to talk to them for the latter two cases, but if you stand by your decision they will always back down.

[Sussex Hammer]

Your "mistake" was fining a player for two yellows.

1. Warn (don't fine) a player for two yellows.

2. Fine them one week's pay for a professional foul straight red (and a one-match ban).

3. Fine them two weeks' pay for violent conduct (and multiple-match bans).

I don't know why it's so formulaic, but this is what works with every player, regardless of their personality. You may still need to talk to them for the latter two cases, but if you stand by your decision they will always back down.

Well yes ordinarily I would agree with you although I take the route of only ever warning them for a first offence whatever it is as in experience a fine first time out always makes them moan whatever the disciplinary issue is. Noble was sent off first game of the season for a straight red with from what I can remember was a violent tackle. So first game out and him being Club Captain, I decided to warn him and back him in the Press as he isn't a dirty player. He accepted that,. However on his return to get sent off with two yellows I felt a warning wasn't enough, I mean two dismissals in two games, how many warnings does he want?! Plus in his case if I had fined him for his violent challenge and then just warned him for his second dismissal what sort of message just that send? If I had fined him for the first and fined him for the second god only knows what his reaction would have been!!!

I am playing FMT so not sure if you have more options in Full Fat but part of the problem is that players are reactive rather than pro active. That is that Nobles reaction is only created by whatever decision or action I take as a Manager. If I do nothing he will do nothing, whereas if I fine him he may moan, but does that player really learn within the hidden dynamics of the game? Does that warning or fine really make the penny drop? IRL you would hope that he makes a pro active move which would require him to be apologetic and understand that two dismissals in as many games is unacceptable for any player prior to any decision I as a Manager would make, especially because he is a Captain and also because the Manager backed him first time out.

I know the game can't cover every emotion and have players apply common sense and acceptance but a player not seemingly understanding that two dismissals in two games is unacceptable is frustratingly similar to a striker who moans that he is not playing when your team is unbeaten in 10 and in your one striker formation his counterpart has netted 15 goals hence why you can't change a winning team.

[Cougar2010]

Players don't understand a build up of events/cards/fines. FM simply isn't coded that way.

Each incident is isolated and should be treated as such because thats the way its coded. Treating it any other way just causes issues.

You warned him for the first red when it should have been a 2 week fine. If you had done that his personality/attributes may have adjusted as a result which means what followed might not have happened.

[Dagenham_Dave]

Players don't understand a build up of events/cards/fines. FM simply isn't coded that way.

Each incident is isolated and should be treated as such because thats the way its coded. Treating it any other way just causes issues.

Not sure I agree with this. I had a player who I fined a week's wages after his 2nd red card of the season. He felt it was unfair, but said nothing more about it. Two games after coming back from suspension, he picked up another red card, and this time I fined him two weeks wages, which he accepted and apologised for his recent on-field behaviour. I'm pretty sure had I fined him 2 weeks wages after the 2nd red card, he'd have kicked up a fuss.

[Danchinaski]

I had a player sent off in five consecutive matches. I ran out of ways of disciplining him, so bombed him out. The squad turned against me. Form dipped drastically.

[Cougar2010]

Unless SI has changed the coding at some point then its nothing to do with the build up.

Its a weighted reaction to the two week fine for that individual incident.

[Hunter T]

When you know FM is trolling you.

[KingCanary]

Some of the managers linked with jobs is a bit baffling. In my second season Arsenal have just sacked Jurgen Klopp who they appointed over the summer but the three managers linked with this pretty massive job (club is underachieving but still only 6 points off the top 4 with half a season to go) are Steve Clarke, Brendan Rodgers and Michael Laudrup, all of whom are managing clubs in the bottom half of the league, having not achieved a great deal the season before. I can just about buy Rodgers but the other two have been sacked by West Brom and Swansea for under performing in the past. I'm not expecting to get the job or even be linked with it but the people who are are performing worse than me.

[Dagenham_Dave]

I had a player sent off in five consecutive matches. I ran out of ways of disciplining him, so bombed him out. The squad turned against me. Form dipped drastically.

Except none of that actually happened, given it's physically impossible to be sent off 5 games in a row, as you'd be serving all manner of suspensions

@Cougar - Both red cards were for the same thing - a two footed challenge - so I'm not sure why the player would be unhappy at a week's fine for the first one, but accepted a two week fine when he did it again. Unless it's just random, which would be hugely disappointing if so. I don't really get why it wouldn't be coded to follow on from previous incidents, you'd be as well not having the feature at all if so.

[Danchinaski]

Except none of that actually happened, given it's physically impossible to be sent off 5 games in a row, as you'd be serving all manner of suspensions

@Cougar - Both red cards were for the same thing - a two footed challenge - so I'm not sure why the player would be unhappy at a week's fine for the first one, but accepted a two week fine when he did it again. Unless it's just random, which would be hugely disappointing if so. I don't really get why it wouldn't be coded to follow on from previous incidents, you'd be as well not having the feature at all if so.

Of course it happened. He played, got sent off, served a suspension, returned to the team, got sent off, repeat to fade.

Christ.

[Cougar2010]

@Cougar - Both red cards were for the same thing - a two footed challenge - so I'm not sure why the player would be unhappy at a week's fine for the first one, but accepted a two week fine when he did it again. Unless it's just random, which would be hugely disappointing if so. I don't really get why it wouldn't be coded to follow on from previous incidents, you'd be as well not having the feature at all if so.

I'm reasonably confident its weighted random just like many other areas of FM. His personality and maybe some other inputs decide the weighting then the dice rolls.

I do agree that having a system that follows on and takes account of past incidents would be better. However that said SI, as far as I know, haven't done that and I suspect the sticking point would be the memory needed to hold the information which would further slow down the game processing.

[myslnik]

Does AI can score goals only from crosses and set pices ??? Seriously this is just stupid to watch.

[Hunter T]

Does AI can score goals only from crosses and set pices ??? Seriously this is just stupid to watch.

Mostly. But not only AI.

7 games in the league 12 goals scored 6 conceded.

44% of the goals we scored come from crosses.

The 6 we conceded:

1 penalty

1 shot from the edge of the box

1 cross from the DL far post equalised in the 91st min

2 crosses (in one game) from the DR and the FC, both far post lost a 2-0 lead like this (goals in 60' and 84')

1 cross from the WBR near post

Stats for my defence (playing with 3 at the back):

2nd in heading

1st in marking

6th in Jumping reach

1st in positioning

Now, i dont know, but this has a buggy feeling.

[Dagenham_Dave]

You've only conceded six goals in seven games. Most people would be happy with this. The stats for your defence seem to back up how strong you've been defensively. Now, if you'd conceded 20 from these games, mostly from crosses, and the stats still said that, THEN there would possibly be issues.

[Sterling]

I'm playing with quite a few leagues and a large database in my current game but is anybody else finding that the transfer list really starts to thin out of decent players on offer after a few seasons?

[Marathon Dress Week]

I've scored 1 goal from a DFK in 4 seasons. Is that normal? I've also only conceeded around 3-4 in the same space of time.

99% of the time the ball is spannered into row Z, and this is all in the EPL.

[Sussex Hammer]

Players don't understand a build up of events/cards/fines. FM simply isn't coded that way.

Each incident is isolated and should be treated as such because thats the way its coded. Treating it any other way just causes issues.

You warned him for the first red when it should have been a 2 week fine. If you had done that his personality/attributes may have adjusted as a result which means what followed might not have happened.

What's the guarantee that fining him 2 weeks for a first offence would have made any difference? Anyway if "Players don't understand a build up of events/cards and fines" then that suggests it's fairly pointless whatever you do to stop them doing the same again?!

[themadsheep2001]

What's the guarantee that fining him 2 weeks for a first offence would have made any difference? Anyway if "Players don't understand a build up of events/cards and fines" then that suggests it's fairly pointless whatever you do to stop them doing the same again?!

You missed his second point which is pretty key.

[themadsheep2001]

Except none of that actually happened, given it's physically impossible to be sent off 5 games in a row, as you'd be serving all manner of suspensions

@Cougar - Both red cards were for the same thing - a two footed challenge - so I'm not sure why the player would be unhappy at a week's fine for the first one, but accepted a two week fine when he did it again. Unless it's just random, which would be hugely disappointing if so. I don't really get why it wouldn't be coded to follow on from previous incidents, you'd be as well not having the feature at all if so.

It's entirely possible for that to happen, what he means is that he was getting banned each time after suspension. No need to say it never happened.

[edk77]

The number of backup or rotation players complaining about lack of first team football is shockingly high. Just one week of holidays and I'll see a bunch of unhappy players affecting the whole team when I return...

[Hunter T]

You've only conceded six goals in seven games. Most people would be happy with this. The stats for your defence seem to back up how strong you've been defensively. Now, if you'd conceded 20 from these games, mostly from crosses, and the stats still said that, THEN there would possibly be issues.

20? You are talking more than 3 goals per game!You joking right? ''there would possibly be issues''?

I am happy with the amount of goals.

Not happy at all with the way they were scored.

I am not complaining since, as i said, 44% of my scoring comes from crosses, but there is definetly a pattern going on, it's pretty obvious. To me, anyway.

Cross-far post-goal. It is getting rather boring and frustating.

[Dagenham_Dave]

I am happy with the amount of goals.

Not happy at all with the way they were scored.

Why? Are teams not allowed to score goals from crosses against you? In seven games, you've conceded FOUR goals from a cross. Are you seriously suggesting the game is bugged because of this?

What would be an acceptable number of goals to concede from crosses in seven matches in your eyes?

[Hunter T]

Who said they arent allowed?

The sample of games is small, but taking into account the previous season where the ratio was around 40-50% as well, it has a buggy feeling to it.

It is repetitive to say the least. Cross (mainly from deep positions, very difficult to defend), amazing curve to the ball, free header from a players who comes from behind

with amazing speed and precision. This is indipendent of the quality of the players involved.

My favorite is cross from deep-unbelievable curve-far post-guy comes from deep full throttle-streches to the max to pass the ball to the centre of the goal-easy tap in from another

unmarked player-my goalie and my defenders just admiring the whole play, really, maybe taking some selfies with the scorer afterwards

Still, as i said, i score these as well.

And yes, 3 in the back means that i am vulnerable at the flanks, but i m playing with both WBs and AMRLs so i dont think that ''its my tactics'' issue.

[HUNT3R]

Who said they arent allowed?

The sample of games is small, but taking into account the previous season where the ratio was around 40-50% as well, it has a buggy feeling to it.

It is repetitive to say the least. Cross (mainly from deep positions, very difficult to defend), amazing curve to the ball, free header from a players who comes from behind

with amazing speed and precision. This is indipendent of the quality of the players involved.

My favorite is cross from deep-unbelievable curve-far post-guy comes from deep full throttle-streches to the max to pass the ball to the centre of the goal-easy tap in from another

unmarked player-my goalie and my defenders just admiring the whole play, really, maybe taking some selfies with the scorer afterwards

Still, as i said, i score these as well.

And yes, 3 in the back means that i am vulnerable at the flanks, but i m playing with both WBs and AMRLs so i dont think that ''its my tactics'' issue.

It's worth keeping in mind that you're slightly above average in terms of percentage conceded to crosses, assuming your calculations are correct. We've been told that roughly 33% is the average.

As always, if you're seeing issues, the ME team will gladly take a look at specific PKM examples. It may be tactical; it may be poor defending; it may be ME-related.

[myslnik]

My favorite is cross from deep-unbelievable curve-far post-guy comes from deep full throttle-streches to the max to pass the ball to the centre of the goal-easy tap in from another

unmarked player-my goalie and my defenders just admiring the whole play, really, maybe taking some selfies with the scorer afterwards

.

This is exactly what is happening in my games. It's annoying, because in most cases there are 3 defenders in the box against one player who's running from deep. This kind of situation requires remarkable crossing skills and luck not to mention striker pace,vision, determination and positioning yet I can see this made by average or bad players on all levels. Even bad player can have his day but if this reapets constanly then I find it strange and buggy.

[mrw072]

One thing I've noticed in my game is that very few corners seem to result in goals. So far in one and a half seasons (approx. 65 games) I haven't scored from a corner and have only conceded two that way. My players seem to hit the woodwork quite a bit, but not the back of the net!

[Sussex Hammer]

You missed his second point which is pretty key.

Which one, this?

"Each incident is isolated and should be treated as such because thats the way its coded. Treating it any other way just causes issues.

You warned him for the first red when it should have been a 2 week fine. If you had done that his personality/attributes may have adjusted as a result which means what followed might not have happened."

[Citizen Sandman]

Enjoying it atm, not much to grieve about. Unhappiness seems to be only issue, players going OTT when they are reserve players 18/19 years old.

One example of a bug would be a player who sat in reserves all season happy, no games. Soon as I put him in the first team after the league had finished but not new pre-season he was unhappy. Seemed completely triggered by his promotion times by zero appearances.

Also I have a player refusing to sign a contract, started the last ten games, has 4 different happy responses and is in great morale however due to "wants to go out on loan" he won't sign a contract. Tried changing him to indispensable etc it just won't work. Needs to be more dynamic, that lad should not leave.

[HUNT3R]

Which one, this?

This one

You warned him for the first red when it should have been a 2 week fine. If you had done that his personality/attributes may have adjusted as a result which means what followed might not have happened."

[Dagenham_Dave]

And yes, 3 in the back means that i am vulnerable at the flanks, but i m playing with both WBs and AMRLs so i dont think that ''its my tactics'' issue.

To have only conceded only four times from crosses in seven games, I'd say your tactics weren't really the issue, however playing with wingbacks will allow certain teams a bit more space in wide areas. To be honest, and no offence here, I'm still scratching my head trying to work out what your actual issue is. That sample size is way too small to tell anything. But by all means, upload your save if you feel it's 'bugged'.