CaptainPlanet Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 As far as Ballack's (and similar) opinion, Rooney might be a World Class striker, but he's not a world class AMC/Number 10 Most countries aren't playing even 2 strikers in their starting XI, leaving big names on the bench for what's best for the team. We somehow crammed 3 in and expected them to play out of position and be creative and track back. It looks ludicrous that we're not set up to supply a nominated main man up front, especially when we're spoiled for choice for supporting cast. It's not even just hindsight either, it was clear in the friendlies and leading up to the tournament that Welbeck, Rooney, Sturridge was not going to work, especially against good teams. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mlyons Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 Everton fans opinions are pretty worthless though, the way they hype up everything (Baines, Moyes, Jagielka) who all end up being rubbish. If you listened to them you'd think baines was top 5 LB's in the world. Jokers.Baines was one of the top 5 LB's in the world, though. From 2011 to 2013. No question he's regressed in the last year, though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IMT Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 Think we can now add Ghana to that growing list of International countries who play the game better than we do. I'd be surprised if we're anywhere near the top 20 nations anymore, sadly. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nikos Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 Everton fans opinions are pretty worthless though, the way they hype up everything (Baines, Moyes, Jagielka) who all end up being rubbish. If you listened to them you'd think baines was top 5 LB's in the world. Jokers. Are you especially bored tonight? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebs Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 Some of these ridiculous posts are still going and it's been 2 days now. I think once people become older, have watched a fair bit of football and have experienced England for many years you then begin to get an understanding that fits exactly what the world probably views of us and where we are overall in terms of footballing ability as both a nation and a team. Some of the stuff I've read in here is so against any of that it just becomes comical. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmr Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 Are you especially bored tonight? A bit I think I'm right though, the hype Internet Everton fans give to their players is kind of ridiculous, more so than most club fans. Baines has never been the best LB in England, not even the best English LB, yet try telling that to an Everton fan. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
football_master_94 Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 Baines wasn't a top 5 LB in the World, come on now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebs Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 A bit I think I'm right though, the hype Internet Everton fans give to their players is kind of ridiculous, more so than most club fans. Baines has never been the best LB in England, not even the best English LB, yet try telling that to an Everton fan. Baies was widely regarded as the best English LB this season by the majority of fans and press. He hasn't performed well this world cup, but that doesn't mean he wasn't rated for that position beforehand. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
football_master_94 Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 ^^ and that would be a wrong evaluation. Gibbs and even Shaw have probably have had better seasons than Baines. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebs Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 ^^ and that would be a wrong evaluation. Gibbs and even Shaw have probably have had better seasons than Baines. Gibbs and Shaw didn't have better seasons than Baines. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mlyons Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 Baines wasn't a top 5 LB in the World, come on now.Who was better a year ago? Alba, Alaba, Marcelo, anyone else? Certainly no one in the Premier League. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
football_master_94 Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 Who was better a year ago? Alba, Alaba, Marcelo, anyone else? Certainly no one in the Premier League.Don't think he was better than Cole last season tbh but I guess that's debatable so let's say that he was, it's probably only one season where he's considered top 5 and that's last season (12/13) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebs Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 Don't think he was better than Cole last season tbh but I guess that's debatable so let's say that he was, it's probably only one season where he's considered top 5 and that's last season (12/13) Baines was regarded the best defender in the league probably for the first 3 months of last season. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brett.spurs Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 Decent player who takes a great free kick. His qualities were largely worthless in this England side though, if we had Carroll or Lambert up front then you could say yeah but seeing as we didn't, we should've had the defensively/tactically superior Cole. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
football_master_94 Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 Baines was regarded the best defender in the league probably for the first 3 months of last season.Point being? All that says is that he was the flavour of the month for a bit and confirms he was incredibly overhyped (and where far too much value was placed on his ability to take set pieces and attack in a system in which allowed him to do so and played to his strengths). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebs Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 Decent player who takes a great free kick. His qualities were largely worthless in this England side though, if we had Carroll or Lambert up front then you could say yeah but seeing as we didn't, we should've had the defensively/tactically superior Cole.I don't doubt that we should have had Cole...I think he is a wonderful payer who hadn't actually lost his qualities even through not playing. But Baines had had a great couple of years,with the start of this season showing some of his best defensive form in his career, and therefore he was always the best candidate for the position for the World Cup. 2 games later and...well...we are seeing here what is happening... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
toon_84 Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 baines was only so high rated due to his goals and set pieces, a good player for everton but no where near good enough at international level hodgson has to go and I wont be watching England again until he does id love for England to go back to the traditional 4-4-2, its what we know, its what we did well I just hope for our sake theres some decent defenders coming our way, never thought id say this but I miss gary Neville at RB Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebs Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 Point being? All that says is that he was the flavour of the month for a bit and confirms he was incredibly overhyped (and where far too much value was placed on his ability to take set pieces and attack in a system in which allowed him to do so and played to his strengths).Point being that he deserved to play left back at the World Cup (although it should have been Cole, but I can see why he wasn't used due to not playing). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebs Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 baines was only so high rated due to his goals and set pieces, a good player for everton but no where near good enough at international levelhodgson has to go and I wont be watching England again until he does id love for England to go back to the traditional 4-4-2, its what we know, its what we did well I just hope for our sake theres some decent defenders coming our way, never thought id say this but I miss gary Neville at RB This is exactly the sort of post that proves several points Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
football_master_94 Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 Point being that he deserved to play left back at the World Cup (although it should have been Cole, but I can see why he wasn't used due to not playing).Bit of a contradiction that, surely? Cole was still the best fit for England because England was never going to set up in a manner that would make the most of Baines' runs and set pieces. Also, Baines isn't actually good at defending whatsoever. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebs Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 Bit of a contradiction that, surely? Cole was still the best fit for England because England was never going to set up in a manner that would make the most of Baines' runs and set pieces. Also, Baines isn't actually good at defending whatsoever. Baines' defending had been the best it had ever been at the start of this season, but granted he is more there for what he offers going forward probs. I'd have still picked Cole if I was the manager even though he wasn't playing. But, I can see why he did pick Baines. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TM Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 if all players are fit on Tuesday, what starting lineup would you go against with against Costa Rica - and bear in mind, I'm not English I think this would be an interesting one: Hart Shaw Cahill Jones Johnson (no-one else really, unless you play Smalling) Wilshere Henderson Sterling Barkley Lallana Sturridge There isn't really a point in playing Gerrard or Rooney in my opinion, you know what they can do and Gerrard is probably going to retire from internationals after this. Henderson has played okay at the World Cup and Wilshere would be something different. Sterling has played well and Sturridge should be upfront as he should have been in the Uruguay game but for some reason he was on the wing in the 2nd half most of the time. Barkley and Lallana to show what they can do when they start. I expect people will probably say Jones is a bad idea at central defence as he's played there and midfield but it would allow him some experience of a World Cup game, even if it's a game that doesn't mean much Roy will more likely play Rooney and Gerrard anyway, think most will think that - feel free to rip apart the starting lineup above though Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
themadsheep2001 Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 As far as Ballack's (and similar) opinion, Rooney might be a World Class striker, but he's not a world class AMC/Number 10Most countries aren't playing even 2 strikers in their starting XI, leaving big names on the bench for what's best for the team. We somehow crammed 3 in and expected them to play out of position and be creative and track back. It looks ludicrous that we're not set up to supply a nominated main man up front, especially when we're spoiled for choice for supporting cast. It's not even just hindsight either, it was clear in the friendlies and leading up to the tournament that Welbeck, Rooney, Sturridge was not going to work, especially against good teams. Aye, Ballack actually says he is more of a striker than a true 10, which is fair. He's always been more of a creative forward than anything else. Like I've said before, we got so obsessed with the creative attacking part of the game, we forgot/were too arrogant to give them a stable platform. Also: Baines vs Cole really misses the larger point here. Frankly its really a moot point. That fact that Cole might have gone because he was better at desperate one on one defending misses the issue that we shouldnt have been so routinely exposed to desperate one on one defending. Thats not a player issue, thats an organisation issue. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emersonlfc Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 Ballack isn't too far wrong there. I've said in here before the WC even started that England's main problem is playing players due to reputation rather than form. The team needs to be built in a style and fit players to that, not the other way around. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
themadsheep2001 Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 Ballack isn't too far wrong there.I've said in here before the WC even started that England's main problem is playing players due to reputation rather than form. The team needs to be built in a style and fit players to that, not the other way around. Aye. With Gerrard going (?), I suspect the side will be built around Rooney, my issue is whether its built around him at 10 (please no) or at 9 in a 4-3-3 (workable). Now I don't have a problem with whoever plays from Rooney or Sturridge up front, but the only way it works with 2 of them on the pitch is if whoever is told to play out wide is given no defensive responsibility other than to aggressively press the full up the pitch, and even then im not too convinced. Much rather have players who are naturally happy wide. Oh and pick a DM who is defensive first, with a decent pass out on him. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ringwoodrob Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 I think Ballack contradics himself if he's meaning Wayne at No10 and says midfielders(No10?)cover defensively,the only place for him is 9,,not sure the long term future is building a team around him he's nearly 29! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
themadsheep2001 Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 I think Ballack contradics himself if he's meaning Wayne at No10 and says midfielders(No10?)cover defensively,the only place for him is 9,,not sure the long term future is building a team around him he's nearly 29! He made the point that Rooney was more of a striker than a midfielder/10, and that you were asking too much of someone who is more of a striker to create, attack and defend at once. If he is playing at 9, he's got two more tournaments left in him, which is more than Roy has tbf. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wiggins Top Boys Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 baines was only so high rated due to his goals and set pieces, a good player for everton but no where near good enough at international levelhodgson has to go and I wont be watching England again until he does id love for England to go back to the traditional 4-4-2, its what we know, its what we did well I just hope for our sake theres some decent defenders coming our way, never thought id say this but I miss gary Neville at RB Can only imagine this is a joke post. Otherwisea you are part of the problem Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PMLF Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 Former Brazil president Lula said that England were eliminated early because they are not used to playing at good stadiums like those of the World Cup. This idiot was our president for 8 years... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pukey Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 I've heard some bizarre reasoning but that one takes the biscuit Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PMLF Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 I've heard some bizarre reasoning but that one takes the biscuit He was hyping the WC organization, but still...totally silly regardless of his reasons. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kontermann Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 Getting players from other countries like Sterling (he is originally from Jamaica, not from England) might help England to be able to compete with the big nations in the future... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pukey Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 Surely he can hype it without making a totally bizarre and not remotely correct point? I suppose Spain are out for the same reasons? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott MUFC Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 spain are out because they got found out and they took Torres Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razzler Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 I love a bit of hindsight Jason Burt in the Telepgraph is going on about the usual but includes how players were tweeting pictures leading up to the Uruguay game ... who else prepares like this?! Before that was 'there is a relaxed nature about the squad' but it's become 'they think they're so famous ... grrr ... premier league'. This kind of stuff after the fact annoys me way more than the rah rah rah England will win that the tabloids used to do as you know they're selling papers, being positive but all this hindsight when we're out is supposed to have some thought put into it Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
aggressive minor Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 Getting players from other countries like Sterling (he is originally from Jamaica, not from England) might help England to be able to compete with the big nations in the future... Erm, do your research son. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gizzy Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 Just read some tweets that sums up my feelings about the England team perfectly: The problem with 'Team England' is the same as it's been for two decades: a galactico mentality with no galacticos. Pandering to big names.Sven-Goran Eriksson was the worst thing to happen to England in the modern era because he is obsessed with fame and left a legacy of that. Roy doesn't seem to be able to get away from it either, and thats why I think he should be sacked. But then the next will most likely do the same. That needs to change. We will see against Costa Rica, Lampard should be no where near starting, but since it may well be his last game, then Roy will start him. Pathetic! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainPlanet Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 I'd like to see us with exactly the same formation as we have been playing, but with Wilshere instead of Rooney. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pearcey_90 Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 Getting players from other countries like Sterling (he is originally from Jamaica, not from England) might help England to be able to compete with the big nations in the future... Taking the route of Germany/France Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
arenaross Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 baines was only so high rated due to his goals and set pieces, a good player for everton but no where near good enough at international levelhodgson has to go and I wont be watching England again until he does id love for England to go back to the traditional 4-4-2, its what we know, its what we did well I just hope for our sake theres some decent defenders coming our way, never thought id say this but I miss gary Neville at RB What is this? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coulthard's Jaw Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 Well he's sort of right about one thing, Gibbs should be starting ahead of Baines. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmr Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 tbh I'd prefer 4-4 ****ing-2 over this 4-2-3-1 abomination. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
skybluedave Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 Weren't Uruguay playing a 442? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astafjevs Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 Weren't Uruguay playing a 442?Not vs. England. At least not for the first 65-70 mins (until they brought on Stuani) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nikos Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 Well he's sort of right about one thing' date=' Gibbs should be starting ahead of Baines.[/quote']Haha, what rubbish. You'd think Johnson and Baines were 35 by the way they've been moved on by everyone. They're 29. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmr Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 Johnson is pure garbage and Baines is pure garbage for England, it's better to just move onto Shaw and give him a chance. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maple Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 It can hardly be described as particularly underperforming losing quite unluckily against two teams ranked in the top ten in the world with a national team which is definitely in a slump ability-wise. I reckon England in pure ability is worse than they've been at any Championship this millennium. Your squad only got 6 players which had made at least 30 internationals. (As a comparison Uruguay had 15, Italy 10 and Costa Rica 12. (To contradict that France had 7 and Spain 16)) Not saying it's a bad thing because you're likely to be stronger in the years to come, while definitely Uruguay needs to rebuild. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coulthard's Jaw Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 Johnson is pure garbage and Baines is pure garbage for England, it's better to just move onto Shaw and give him a chance. Too soon for Shaw, if he moves to ManUtd and gets CL football in the future then sure, until then Gibbs should be in pole position, only left back we have who has loads of CL experience. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
toon_84 Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 Haha, what rubbish.You'd think Johnson and Baines were 35 by the way they've been moved on by everyone. They're 29. Johnsons worst attribute is he cant defend or put a cross in, baines is a set piece specialist that doesn't take set pieces, just the players we need playing at full back doesn't matter if they are 35 or 19, theyre still not good enough Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CloudYildiz Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 Taking the route of Germany/France Every country does it to fill the gaping holes in their system, see Spain with Marcos Senna at Euro 2008 where he played a vital role. Change the rules for application for nationality for like, has to live in Great Britain for at least 5 years. As far as i know, i don't see any decent English holding midfielders for the future and you might have got Schneiderlin to play for you guys, if only he didn't have a France cap already. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.