Football Manager 2020 January & February Transfer Updates Feedback Thread

[WelshMourinho]

I find the comparison's to fm17 quite irrelevant in a way.

The introduction of LOE and the likes of defensive width have given us and the AI far more defensive options and ability to make our teams more compact etc. as well as the fact the game is 3 years old, defensive movement has obviously been improved in that time too.

Do I think the attacking side of things is at a good level at the moment? No, I don't. But would I rather stick with the defensive options we've got now and hope to see attacking movement also get improved?  Absolutely. That's my ideal FM.

Reverting back to the FM17 ME would set the defensive side of the game back years.

Edited March 5, 2020 by WelshMourinho

[Neil Brock]

2 minutes ago, MrGizMo said:

Hmm hopefully someone shows some screenshots

Btw does anyone know what was fixed in the update before this one? Didnt have internet for 20 days so just go the update and Neil changes the topic with new info and deletes the old info  

You can find an update history in the news section for the game on Steam - https://store.steampowered.com/news/?appids=1100600&appgroupname=Football+Manager+2020

[glenjamin]

I think that's me done. I was hoping for some ME changes, didn't have to be a complete overhaul. I just don't enjoy this edition. It's too frustrating. I'm not sure if I'll buy FM21. I'll probably wait until this time next year after reading the feedback thread and go from there. It's a real shame. Still my favourite game series of all time on any platform. Just not FM20. Sorry SI. 

[Fieldsy]

To not touch the ME is a real disappointment  IMO. I honestly believed that it would be updated slightly and to have nothing basically means that this is the finished article. 

 

I will seriously consider whether FM21 will be worth it, the ME has glaring issues...

very little central play, lone striker movement, little penetrative passing in the final third....

I get it’s not an exact science but.....

[João14]

Will there be an update on players disappering on FM Touch? Still not Billy Gilmour etc??

[ChelseaFan]

Disable first window still doesn't work...

 

[ParanoidBuddha]

12 minuti fa, Neil Brock ha scritto:

We've put changes in for the Greek tax issue.  

Really sad that serie A taxes are still wrong. Let's hope at least to have the correct ones as a new FM21 ''feature''.

Edited March 5, 2020 by ParanoidBuddha

[saiyaman]

So I was delighted when SI were fixing the Match Engine and took the effort into putting a beta.

But to leave the game in this state.

Very very disappointing. And extremely poor.

I will honestly stop buying this till it's on 75% off to not be involved in this wait for fixes which is just translated to:

* it's just beta calm down

* it's just x.1 calm down

* it's just x.2 calm down

* it's just x.3 calm down

* oh here we go again see ya till the next version

[bitzu_rock]

Do i need to start a new save in order to benefit the new updates (besides the transfers) ?

Edited March 5, 2020 by bitzu_rock

[Novem9]

OK this is difficult to improve ME in short time like this. But what about change finishing % ? Just change it for 10% better?!

For example when I tested tactic after 20.3 release, topscoarers of full season in FM ~ the same of current day of season IRL (2/3 of full)

Classic situation (dont have English sreenshot because delete FM20 after this) :

21/10 shots (just 6 long shots), 3 woodworks, 3 clear chances for FM (in fact 5-6 at least), total domination (balanced mentality, no gegenpressing and no hard tackles)

I literally need to push ball in a goal 

Resume - I played just 3 full seasons in FM20 without any fun at all. Checked Steam for update because was almost sure about ME update, probably small, but update.

If you nerfed finishing just for 'looks like IRL' so seems like this is smaller ~5-10% at least and you kill a lot of pleasure. Just for what?

 

Edited March 5, 2020 by Novem9

[Gee_Simpson]

2 minutes ago, ChelseaFan said:

Disable first window still doesn't work...

 

Seriously?

[bitzu_rock]

3 minutes ago, bitzu_rock said:

Do i need to start a new save in order to benefit the new updates (besides the transfers) ?

?

[Gee_Simpson]

1 hour ago, Gee_Simpson said:

I still think they'll release it tomorrow. Neil said in another thread it takes days after to release, not weeks. If they waited until Monday it would then be a week. 

[KUBI]

Gerade eben schrieb bitzu_rock:

?

Data und competition changes needs a new save, all the other fixes not.

[ChelseaFan]

3 minutes ago, Gee_Simpson said:

Seriously?

Well, I've just started a new save, made sure the box was ticked and most of my squad are "Wanted".

 

[danstam]

1 minute ago, ChelseaFan said:

Well, I've just started a new save, made sure the box was ticked and most of my squad are "Wanted".

 

I had this when it was working, someone who isn’t playing with Chelsea would have to confirm whether they could buy someone before we can say it still doesn’t work...

[rp1966]

30 minutes ago, WelshMourinho said:

I find the comparison's to fm17 quite irrelevant in a way.

The introduction of LOE and the likes of defensive width have given us and the AI far more defensive options and ability to make our teams more compact etc. as well as the fact the game is 3 years old, defensive movement has obviously been improved in that time too.

Do I think the attacking side of things is at a good level at the moment? No, I don't. But would I rather stick with the defensive options we've got now and hope to see attacking movement also get improved?  Absolutely. That's my ideal FM.

Reverting back to the FM17 ME would set the defensive side of the game back years.

You are right to an extent, but the point about the FM17 comparison was about balance - that even though the defence doesn't simulate things as well as FM20 with its pressing and LOE/LOD options, it is far better balanced between attack and defence - teams come out and give you a game which makes for a much better gaming experience. 

You can't seriously improve the defensive side of a football game without also balancing that with attacking changes in the same ME version, otherwise you get what we have this year - a one dimensional unbalanced mess, where virtually every game is played like a Mourinho-about-to-be-sacked bus-parking horror show unless the teams are of matching reputation and form.

 

Edited March 5, 2020 by rp1966

[Pyeman31]

Really fail to see the point in the consumer sending feedback etc to SI when the issues that are fed back are ignored. This game has gone backwards and just really isn't fun anymore. The main and most exciting part of the game is the ME, yet it's the ME that doesn't really improve and is very repetitive

[kosecki99]

The fault is ours for buying the game in advance, and I include myself! Never more.

[akinozcan]

We saw that "known issue" or "logged" has no significance. Experience for us one more time.

[BeadyRoller]

Actually gutted to be honest. This is the first FM I've not enjoyed and have been playing since the CM 01/02 days. To leave the Match Engine in the state it is, is quite unbelievable. I do the same save every year, try get my hometown to the Premier League but I simply cannot get through even a season this year, the matches are so so dull and repetitive. 

[Sharkn20]

Is this the last patch?

[Neil Brock]

10 minutes ago, akinozcan said:

We saw that "known issue" or "logged" has no significance. Experience for us one more time.

That's frankly not true. Any issue which is marked as such has been logged in our internal database which means it's been reviewed by QA, prioritised and passed onto the development team. 

Whilst people share their opinions within this thread, we get enough 'fake news' from other aspects from life, so would appreciate it if we try and keep this forum as factual as possible. Thanks. 

[craigcwwe]

46 minutes ago, Fieldsy said:

To not touch the ME is a real disappointment  IMO. I honestly believed that it would be updated slightly and to have nothing basically means that this is the finished article. 

 

I will seriously consider whether FM21 will be worth it, the ME has glaring issues...

very little central play, lone striker movement, little penetrative passing in the final third....

I get it’s not an exact science but.....

Yeah if they didn't change the ME with this update I can't see a change coming for this version now. They've worked on it with multiple patches since release and still problems. 

26 minutes ago, rp1966 said:

You are right to an extent, but the point about the FM17 comparison was about balance - that even though the defence doesn't simulate things as well as FM20 with its pressing and LOE/LOD options, it is far better balanced between attack and defence - teams come out and give you a game which makes for a much better gaming experience. 

You can't seriously improve the defensive side of a football game without also balancing that with attacking changes in the same ME version, otherwise you get what we have this year - a one dimensional unbalanced mess, where virtually every game is played like a Mourinho-about-to-be-sacked bus-parking horror show unless the teams are of matching reputation and form.

 

Yeah this. It was a fun ME to play and watch because it was balanced for both defense and attack. All playstyles were viable and people now comparing it to FM20 with the new defensive options are missing the point. 

That is what the game needs to get back to. A well balanced ME in which you can successfully create either a deep low block defensive tactic just as much as you can an attacking tactic and anything in between, like we had several years ago in FM17. What we have right now is a one dimensional ME which funnels you down the high pressing, counter pressing systems and opposition teams that all defend the same way and who simply don't want to play football. Not even relegation teams only, even mid to higher end sides outside of the very best teams in the top leagues all trying to play the same way. That's a big problem and after a while gets tiring and quite frankly, boring to watch. 

24 minutes ago, Pyeman31 said:

Really fail to see the point in the consumer sending feedback etc to SI when the issues that are fed back are ignored. This game has gone backwards and just really isn't fun anymore. The main and most exciting part of the game is the ME, yet it's the ME that doesn't really improve and is very repetitive

They've listened to feedback since release imo. The game has been updated more than I can recall any previous FM being updated post release. In my opinion and judging from the feedback threads we've had for this year's game, the ME needs to balance out the new defensive options with some new attacking options. What they are who knows?.....

But as I said in here recently, until those changes are made expect the ME to be what it is right now. I know SI have a plan for the next several FMs down the line, years in advance of what they are working on and what they want to see in the game, new features etc etc, let's all hope that significant attacking changes are implemented during that time to bring back BALANCE to the game.  

Edited March 5, 2020 by craigcwwe

[Neil Brock]

Just to bear in mind, we ask whilst people raise their feedback here to be respectful of other users, the moderating team and the development team. Thanks. 

[KUBI]

vor 5 Minuten schrieb craigcwwe:

vor 39 Minuten schrieb bitzu_rock:

Do i need to start a new save in order to benefit the new updates (besides the transfers) ?

Nope. 

All changes to league rules do also need a new save.

[apache911]

So the bug of goal scoring from set pieces in every game and weak defenses still not fixed?

[bitzu_rock]

2 hours ago, Neil Brock said:

That's frankly not true. Any issue which is marked as such has been logged in our internal database which means it's been reviewed by QA, prioritised and passed onto the development team. 

Whilst people share their opinions within this thread, we get enough 'fake news' from other aspects from life, so would appreciate it if we try and keep this forum as factual as possible. Thanks. 

@Neil Brock Do you plan for a new update in the near future ?

Edited March 5, 2020 by bitzu_rock

[Lucas]

Just now, bitzu_rock said:

Do you plan for a new update in the near future ?

One was just released today. If you have feedback on that, that would be relevant to share in the thread. Thanks.

[rp1966]

23 minutes ago, craigcwwe said:

 

They've listened to feedback since release imo. The game has been updated more than I can recall any previous FM being updated post release. In my opinion and judging from the feedback threads we've had for this year's game, the ME needs to balance out the new defensive options with some new attacking options. What they are who knows?.....

 

I'm not sure it's about new attacking options, but it is noticeable that in FM17 in the attacking third the ME is very willing to play little triangles in and around the box even with a close defensive presence - those super-creative forwards get a chance to work their magic. In FM20 in the same situations the ball goes to someone in much more space - usually out wide, but sometimes one of the deeper lying central midfielders - that normally means you get a long shot, cross or the ball going out for a corner which leads to it feeling like everything is a set piece or long shot.

It's been mentioned a lot, but I think the work done on pressing has affected how space is perceived and exploited in a way that doesn't help creative forwards at all.

Remember the early version of this ME where the ball would get constantly pinged from wing to wing (may have been in the beta) - that looked to me like the algorithm seeking the player in most space (presumably with other conditions). It rightly got toned down so that build-up play in FM20 is now pretty convincing, but I think the calculation for the final third needs to be a lot more risk tolerant - especially at higher levels of the game.  Players in top leagues are able to operate with very little space and I don't think the ME currently reflects that.

Edited March 5, 2020 by rp1966

[Fieldsy]

Lucas, with all due respect it was a data update and some fairly minor gameplay updates.

is an ME update planned or is this it in terms of FM20?

[szp]

7 minutes ago, Neil Brock said:

That's frankly not true. Any issue which is marked as such has been logged in our internal database which means it's been reviewed by QA, prioritised and passed onto the development team. 

Whilst people share their opinions within this thread, we get enough 'fake news' from other aspects from life, so would appreciate it if we try and keep this forum as factual as possible. Thanks. 

With all respect - maybe it is passed onto the development team, but these issues are still unsolved... 

[bitzu_rock]

5 minutes ago, Lucas said:

One was just released today. If you have feedback on that, that would be relevant to share in the thread. Thanks.

@Lucas I am just asking if there is a new update planned in the future or there will be none until the new FM...(if there is one planned could be sooner or not....i usually start a new save after a new update).

Edited March 5, 2020 by bitzu_rock

[yandex]

1 minute ago, Lucas said:

One was just released today. If you have feedback on that, that would be relevant to share in the thread. Thanks.

What were the considerations around not touching the match engine this time around?
Does the testing team, and/or the developers, think that the amount of goals and chances created from set pieces are realistic/balanced?

 

 

[akinozcan]

15 dakika önce, Neil Brock said:

That's frankly not true. Any issue which is marked as such has been logged in our internal database which means it's been reviewed by QA, prioritised and passed onto the development team. 

Whilst people share their opinions within this thread, we get enough 'fake news' from other aspects from life, so would appreciate it if we try and keep this forum as factual as possible. Thanks. 

Ok then, I want to ask a question. After the ME 2040 version, there are many topics with "known issue" or "logged" tags in the match engine section. I am aware that "known" and "solved" do not mean the same, but none of them successfully (without knock-on effects) resolved?

[Neil Brock]

1 minute ago, akinozcan said:

Ok then, I want to ask a question. After the ME 2040 version, there are many topics with "known issue" or "logged" tags in the match engine section. I am aware that "known" and "solved" do not mean the same, but none of them successfully (without knock-on effects) resolved?

All issues on all bugs forums are marked in the same way. We've stated on previous occasions that due to time, resources and the nature of software development that whilst we try to make sure every thread is responded to and every issue logged, some issues won't be addressed immediately. These we'll always aim to address for future versions. 

[danstam]

The match engine isn't perfect by any stretch, but let's not forget the disaster that was constant hoof-ball over the defense before this. You can say that it shouldn't have been released like this in the first place, but in any case they fixed it after all the comments. In any case, I'd like to add that set pieces can definitely be exploited, not that there is any one exploitable routine but have a decent routine and train attacking corners every week and you will score goals from corners consistently (but training defending set pieces will cut down concessions enormously). However, I'm not convinced that all the complaints about central play are attributable to the match engine. I don't wish to insult those who are having issues, but... it may possibly be your tactics (cliche, I know).

[Pyeman31]

17 minutes ago, Neil Brock said:

Just to bear in mind, we ask whilst people raise their feedback here to be respectful of other users, the moderating team and the development team. Thanks. 

Can I ask then why there has been no further ME updates even though your team has had plenty of feedback around ME issues like overpowered set pieces etc. Surely you must've been aware of possible backlash to this update with no ME changes?

[Mitja]

1 hour ago, WelshMourinho said:

I find the comparison's to fm17 quite irrelevant in a way.

The introduction of LOE and the likes of defensive width have given us and the AI far more defensive options and ability to make our teams more compact etc. as well as the fact the game is 3 years old, defensive movement has obviously been improved in that time too.

Do I think the attacking side of things is at a good level at the moment? No, I don't. But would I rather stick with the defensive options we've got now and hope to see attacking movement also get improved?  Absolutely. That's my ideal FM.

Reverting back to the FM17 ME would set the defensive side of the game back years.

You won't miss any of those new instructions with FM17. Teams will normally defend narrower when ball reaches penalty area. I wonder how's LOE any different to what's been called simply Closing Down? Defensive Width option is good idea but it's implementation is poor or very one dimensional. All teams are using it with more defensive tactics which shouldn't be the case. It's use should be limited against narrow formations or against teams that have extra men in midfield. You never see team defending so narrow leaving flanks totally open. 

 

[_Trocadero_]

Will it be possible to disable first transfer window on Touch? (iOS).

@Neil Brock

[Sharkn20]

@Neil Brock @KUBI is today's update the last one? I want to start a new save when everything is in place. Thanks in advance.

Edited March 5, 2020 by Sharkn20

[szp]

20 minutes ago, Lucas said:

One was just released today. If you have feedback on that, that would be relevant to share in the thread. Thanks.

I'm not sure what kind of feedback do you expect.  It's obvious that the main problem for most of the users who bothered to write here or in the bugs forum is poor state of ME. And you haven't changed it since january. Some of issues were reported when first version was released (5 months ago!) and are still unsolved...

[LazR]

Let's just be patient and see if there is going to be another match engine update and then start to murmur, at least now it's playable after the ui fix.

[Welshace]

38 minutes ago, Neil Brock said:

That's frankly not true. Any issue which is marked as such has been logged in our internal database which means it's been reviewed by QA, prioritised and passed onto the development team. 

Whilst people share their opinions within this thread, we get enough 'fake news' from other aspects from life, so would appreciate it if we try and keep this forum as factual as possible. Thanks. 

The only feedback I can give is that this version is going to go down as my least played as I have no plans to continue playing having seen certain issues haven't been fixed that I consider massively important to the experience.. to say i'm disappointed would be massively understating it, and my faith in the company in terms of taking the game forward has taken a beating...

 

I hope i'm wrong, we'll see for next edition.

[Nikopol]

One could easily dismiss the people here as a vocal and dissatisfiable minority, but i think the negative influence this can have on a community should not be underestimated.

I encourage SI to consider going the Paradox-way (not in regards to pricing and DLC of course) but in regards to transparency of the development process and mechanics of the game. If SI were to talk about how its game works, what they are changing, focussing on etc, it would deflate a lot of the ignorance present in this thread and actually spur engagement from the community, i believe.

 

Something to consider, i think SI's lack of transparency in many cases harms their relation to the community. Whenever a member of the team explains something about the things going on under the hood, it is greatly appreciated.  So maybe not just confirm that 1vs1 goal chances are off, but even explain what leads to it in detail - and many would be satisfied.

[Touristas3]

Incoming post full of PR talk from members of SI containing the below :

 

- ''the complexity of the ME''

- ''small changes can have knock-on effects''

-''strike a balance''

- ''we set high standards to ourselves''

-''unfortunately we couldn't ...yada yada yada''

-''we will look to improve the issues for FM21 or future versions''

-''thank you for your feedback''

 

It's not frustrating anymore, just sad to watch it unfold.

Admit defeat SI,abolish that ancient looking ME and graphics and start over with something fresh,nobody is asking PES graphics but something close to contemporary games.

Also be open about your future plans with developer diaries and bug fixing and i am sure the vast majority will support you.

Personally, i would be happy to ''suffer'' playing another version(s) of this ME if i knew my investment would return with a greater game in the future.

[Travis Bickle]

1 hour ago, KUBI said:

Data und competition changes needs a new save, all the other fixes not.

Do you need a new save for the greek taxes to work? @KUBI @Neil Brock

Edited March 5, 2020 by Travis Bickle

[Lucas]

4 minutes ago, Travis Bickle said:

Do you need a new save for the greek taxes to work? @KUBI @Neil Brock

A new save would be required, yep as it's a data change.

[Travis Bickle]

Just now, Lucas said:

A new save would be required, yep as it's a data change.

Cheers for the quick response. 

[Toonrock]

37 minutes ago, Sharkn20 said:

@Neil Brock @KUBI is today's update the last one? I want to start a new save when everything is in place. Thanks in advance.

Yeah would be nice to get a hint - I´m still to start my first career game on FM20, simply because it´s not fun anymore to play the game when it changes ME doing the 4 month process (Nov - Mar).

Hope (really hope) they will re-think their business model in future editions (Like the suggestion I had forwarded them, something similar at least - see attached).

SI.pdf

Otherwise, definitely will be buying the game no earlier than 1st of March 2021.

Edited March 5, 2020 by Toonrock