Football Manager 2020 Feedback Thread

[Tiger666]

Just now, KUBI said:

Yes, because it is (together with the AI) the most complex part of the game.

Yes I realise that. It was the most complex part of the game in previous years too but I consider it to be in a worse state at the moment than it has been for some time.

[danstam]

8 minutes ago, roykela said:

1v1s - I don't see those issues here. The players miss some and they score some. Nothing out of the ordinairy here (on comprehensive highlights).
Balls over the defence - I see them happening and i deal with them. Then it stops; not completely, but it shouldn't stop completely. I'm just making it harder for the opposition. My playstyle aren't creating those situations either.

I'm only arguing the statement that 'every single concurrent player will have the same silly issues with balls over the defence and missed 1v1s'. I'm not part of that, so it's not every single concurrent player.

I'm still not saying they aren't issues, just because i don't have those issues. They have been confirmed by SI even.
The balls over the defence i would say isn't mainly due to the long balls themselves but the defender's reaction to it. But it's possible to do something about it.

I say this 100% genuinely: I would love to know the tactics you use to mitigate this (assuming your experience is down to your tactics), because if so I would implement them in a heartbeat. 

[IrrelevantLion]

1 minute ago, danstam said:

I say this 100% genuinely: I would love to know the tactics you use to mitigate this (assuming your experience is down to your tactics), because if so I would implement them in a heartbeat. 

Ok you want to know the secret? One single Pressing Forward on Attack. You're welcome 

Edited January 11, 2020 by IrrelevantLion

[roykela]

4 minutes ago, IrrelevantLion said:

In my opinion if it's hard coded in, it will affect everyone. I think they are related as the missed 1v1s are nerfed to mitigate the increased occurance of balls over the top and poor defensive reactions. I created a rubbish tactic to exploit this and it is going well. But as a consequence it doesn't feel very rewarding

Then it isn't hard coded if i don't see it here.
But from a probable logical fallacy to reality; It might be just in certain situations it's being triggered.
I can deal with long balls over my defenders, but the opposition might still get 1v1 situations. Both that are missed and scored.
They might be related. Tricky part for SI is to find out what, if, when, why and how.

[IrrelevantLion]

Just now, roykela said:

Then it isn't hard coded if i don't see it here.
But from a probable logical fallacy to reality; It might be just in certain situations it's being triggered.
I can deal with long balls over my defenders, but the opposition might still get 1v1 situations. Both that are missed and scored.
They might be related. Tricky part for SI is to find out what, if, when, why and how.

I personally think they should introduce a long passing accuracy attribute. Or, in a more crude solution, reduce the long pass value or tendancy for all players. 

[roykela]

1 minute ago, danstam said:

I say this 100% genuinely: I would love to know the tactics you use to mitigate this (assuming your experience is down to your tactics), because if so I would implement them in a heartbeat. 

 
So would probably i if i were in the shoes of those who experience the issues.



My tactics are simple. I have to adjust and tweak a bit during the development of each match but it seems to be working, regarding the mentioned issues, for me.
I probably have to change my tactics and possibly my formation as well a bit as i don't produce the results. A lot of chances but not good chances.
Things will have to change
 

[Bladeson]

1 hour ago, KUBI said:

There are every day 100k to 200k people playing this game and having fun. For some people (maybe including me) this game will never be finished, as I would like it perfect, but also knowing that this is impossible. So I enjoy it how it is and yes, this is possible as I think in general this is the best release so far. Or you can wait until an update fixes some issues. I just would prefer people speaking as I and not WE. 

The ME will never be fixed if SI's mentality is "Look! There's over 100k users playing the game that must mean they are all having so much fun." Do I even need to explain that a lot of players does NOT = good game?  Surely you understand that already.  Maybe you should practise what you preach and not speak as WE and instead speak as I when you talk about 100k-200k people having fun on the game? Without typing an essay I can't express how much I disagree with you saying that this is the best release so far.

[KlaaZ]

2 minutes ago, Bladeson said:

The ME will never be fixed if SI's mentality is "Look! There's over 100k users playing the game that must mean they are all having so much fun." Do I even need to explain that a lot of players does NOT = good game?  Surely you understand that already.  Maybe you should practise what you preach and not speak as WE and instead speak as I when you talk about 100k-200k people having fun on the game? Without typing an essay I can't express how much I disagree with you saying that this is the best release so far.

Why wouldn't it be? It's not because a game is a good that the developer doesn't want to strive for it to be even better. That's a very silly assumption really. 

[victorpetroll]

Some truths are boring to hear, but the SI has no reason to listen to the community. What competition do they have? None! The game has been available for almost 2 months and is still with horrible ME. Nobody can give greater satisfaction to the community, the only thing they say is: "Our developers are working, be patient, blablabla". Come on guys, show some respect for your community, we don't deserve it. Give us the product we pay for, please.

[smokeymcpot49]

31 minutes ago, upthetoon said:

The vast majority of paying customers are extremely satisfied with this game. the number of players playing this game is at the all-time highest and the number looks like it will continue to grow and is growing.

the numbers don't lie, and FM20 is best-ever FM selling series. the hardcore few are the ones apparently quitting the game, but the majority are playing it and loving it. just look at the steam reviews i've never seen such positive ratings before. as far as SI is concerned, they can even don't bother to release any other patch and focus on Fm2021, and FM20 will still be considered a huge success purely by numbers. and let the minority complain here. but SI has always been known to release patches.

the current world we live in now, is all about statistics and bottom line - dollars and cents.

so be patient and perhaps we need to try to understand why the vast majority can still enjoy this game.

'The vast majority of paying customers are extremely satisfied with this game,' what evidence could you possibly have to prove this? 

'just look at the steam reviews i've never seen such positive ratings before,' please look at the most helpful reviews over the last month on steam..

'as far as SI is concerned, they can even don't bother to release any other patch,' sheer nonsense, have a look at the known issues and issues under review on the bugs forum..

'vast majority can still enjoy this game' again a nonsense point you cannot prove. 

I've never seen so many FM dedicated accounts on twitter so negative about it. Even a popular skin creator has said he doesn't play the game due to the multitude of bugs.

[Sisamom]

vor 29 Minuten schrieb upthetoon:

The vast majority of paying customers are extremely satisfied with this game. the number of players playing this game is at the all-time highest and the number looks like it will continue to grow and is growing.

the numbers don't lie, and FM20 is best-ever FM selling series. the hardcore few are the ones apparently quitting the game, but the majority are playing it and loving it. just look at the steam reviews i've never seen such positive ratings before. as far as SI is concerned, they can even don't bother to release any other patch and focus on Fm2021, and FM20 will still be considered a huge success purely by numbers. and let the minority complain here. but SI has always been known to release patches.

the current world we live in now, is all about statistics and bottom line - dollars and cents.

so be patient and perhaps we need to try to understand why the vast majority can still enjoy this game.

When u talk about numbers u should mention, that the FM expands to the german market for the second year (licenses, language), so numbers are relative.

U should also recognize, that the selling numbers include also those who are not satisfied and these are not only one or two and they are playing too, to find fun in the game - so not everyone who is playing is enjoying the game at the moment.

I've played every version of the CM/FM for over a decade and i've been happy with the games most of the time but this year is absolutely disapointing.

Maybe the reason is, that with EA the only competitor has disappeared and SI starts leaning back.

[Bladeson]

10 minutes ago, KlaaZ said:

Why wouldn't it be? It's not because a game is a good that the developer doesn't want to strive for it to be even better. That's a very silly assumption really. 

When a lot of people list issues with a particular area and SI's response to that is "Look at how many people are playing the game and look how good our reviews are" you think that mentality is beneficial to fixing the issues? Of course they are working on the issues to a degree of course, but I doubt they are treating it like it's gamebreaking clearly.

Edited January 11, 2020 by Bladeson

[CaptainPlanet]

[KlaaZ]

1 minute ago, Bladeson said:

When a lot of people list issues with a particular area and SI's response to that is "Look at how many people are playing the game and look how good our reviews are" you think that mentality is beneficial to fixing the issues? Of course they are working on the issues to a degree of course, but I doubt they are treating it FAR from gamebreaking clearly.

There's litterally a stickied post from Neil at the top of this thread that these issues are under review. So you really shouldn't make stuff up about what their response really is. 

And they shouldn't treat is as  game breaking because, as said before, it is not. If the issues were actually game breaking, people wouldn't be able to play this game in any enjoyable fashion and judging by the amount of people that are playing it on a continuous basis (including myself), it seems that a lot of people are able to do just that.

That said, from what I know SI have always strived to improve this game over the past 20 years, I don't see any reason why that would have changed now. I'd rather have them fix something properly than hastily put a patch on that creates other problems down the line. So if they're taking their time, I'd think there is a reason for it. 

[Bladeson]

9 minutes ago, KlaaZ said:

There's litterally a stickied post from Neil at the top of this thread that these issues are under review. So you really shouldn't make stuff up about what their response really is. 

And they shouldn't treat is as  game breaking because, as said before, it is not. If the issues were actually game breaking, people wouldn't be able to play this game in any enjoyable fashion and judging by the amount of people that are playing it on a continuous basis (including myself), it seems that a lot of people are able to do just that.

That said, from what I know SI have always strived to improve this game over the past 20 years, I don't see any reason why that would have changed now. I'd rather have them fix something properly than hastily put a patch on that creates other problems down the line. So if they're taking their time, I'd think there is a reason for it. 

You really should think about what a PR response is and not trust everything you read. As I said there's a chance SI is working very hard to fix these issues, I never said that's not a possibility. I simply said reading people representing SI say "100k-200k people are playing and having fun" in regards to issues with the ME does not give me a good impression towards them fixing the numerous issues. 

You can't objectively and factually say it's not gamebreaking. It's gamebreaking to some people, it's clearly not gamebreaking for you. Good for you. Clearly you understand my definition of "gamebreaking" in this scenario was not "you literally cannot launch the game" simply a part of the game is not fun at all which leads me not wanting to play it.  By your definition which is incredibly flawed I could say: judging by the amount of people complaining and NOT playing the game it must be incredibly gamebreaking? Exactly, that argument doesn't work.

Edited January 11, 2020 by Bladeson

[roykela]

8 minutes ago, Bladeson said:

You really should think about what a PR response is and not trust everything you read. As I said there's a chance SI is working very hard to fix these issues, I never said that's not a possibility. I simply said reading people representing SI say "100k-200k people are playing and having fun" does not give me a good impression towards them fixing the numerous issues. 

You can't objectively and factually say it's not gamebreaking. It's gamebreaking to some people, it's clearly not gamebreaking for you. Good for you. Clearly you understand my definition of "gamebreaking" in this scenario was not "you literally cannot launch the game" simply a part of the game is not fun at all which leads me not wanting to play it.  By your definition which is incredibly flawed I could say: judging by the amount of people complaining and NOT playing the game it must be incredibly gamebreaking? Exactly, that argument doesn't work.

If it was objectively gamebreaking it would be so for everyone. It is a subjective interpretation of what is an enjoyable part of a game by an individual (where there can be several individuals), hampered by the undesirable effect of an action, or several, it has on the individual's particular part of enjoyment.
I would argue that there isn't a chance SI are working very hard to fix these issues. I'd claim that it is a certainty.

[Bladeson]

23 minutes ago, roykela said:

If it was objectively gamebreaking it would be so for everyone. It is a subjective interpretation of what is an enjoyable part of a game by an individual (where there can be several individuals), hampered by the undesirable effect of an action, or several, it has on the individual's particular part of enjoyment.
I would argue that there isn't a chance SI are working very hard to fix these issues. I'd claim that it is a certainty.

Yes? That's literally the point I made on how it's subjective. He made the argument it is objectively NOT gamebreaking.

Edited January 11, 2020 by Bladeson

[JordanMilly]

Guys, as interesting as the debate over whether something is objective or subjective is, it isn't really relevant. No one is denying that, for at least some individuals (whether that's a minority, majority, plurality, etc, of the playerbase), there are issues with 1v1s and over-the-top balls from defenders, though it is clear it doesn't impact everyone. SI haven't denied it, and are saying they're working on resolving the issue. There is no reason to believe that they are lying about that statement either.

So, can we put a pin in that discussion and let the thread be left for constructive positive or negative feedback, rather than fill the thread up with page after page of disagreements over dictionary definitions?

[roykela]

4 minutes ago, Bladeson said:

Yes? That's literally the point I made on how it's subjective. He made the argument it is objectively NOT gamebreaking.

Then i misinterpreted your message.
Probably time for me to go to bed then and refresh my brain

[Kyznar]

SI need to start doing one thing game developers do more often now. "Developer Diary". Tell us whats going on and where youre at. Transparency is key in this modern consumer environment we live in, so we dont escalate frustrations into potentially incorrect assumptions/opinions. For a long running game series such as this there should be more back and forth between community and developers. Right now, it feels like a lot of back and no forth. 

Also, the typical response to what i just said would be to imply that delays can occur in the patching/development process and that some updates in specific areas may get pushed back or cancelled entirely, therefore it would unwise to create a "Developer Diary" that could have negative effect on the games image. For me though, IT IS OK to inform the player base about potential changes and then they dont actually get implemented due to unforeseen issues after said "Developer Diary" was released. YOU WILL NOT loose sales over this, I am still going to buy the latest version of the game even if I know that the following year there is a planned big feature/ME inclusion/update.

The point is, I firmly believe the current player base interaction strategy is completely outdated from SI Games.

[roykela]

2 minutes ago, JordanMillward_1 said:

Guys, as interesting as the debate over whether something is objective or subjective is, it isn't really relevant. No one is denying that, for at least some individuals (whether that's a minority, majority, plurality, etc, of the playerbase), there are issues with 1v1s and over-the-top balls from defenders, though it is clear it doesn't impact everyone. SI haven't denied it, and are saying they're working on resolving the issue. There is no reason to believe that they are lying about that statement either.

So, can we put a pin in that discussion and let the thread be left for constructive positive or negative feedback, rather than fill the thread up with page after page of disagreements over dictionary definitions?

I'm going to bed, so sure.
But that wasn't what the discussion was about.

[bleventozturk]

It is kind of funny that when I watch some other people on youtube, playing attacking 4-2-4 for 90 minutes, end up with 40+ shots, the ME looks absolutely awful and unrealistic. After watching those, I really have a hard time getting back to playing myself. But when I do, I experience a significantly better ME with my tactical setups which I can describe as more 'reasonable', and I think 'ok, ME has obvious issues, especially on the defensive side, but it is still enjoyable'.  Reasonable input leads to reasonable output, and garbage in garbage out. Who in real life plays with 4 attackers for 90 minutes? Such overly offensive systems used in short bursts, typically towards the end of matches when teams are desperate for an equalizer. 

So yes, there are glaring issues. But the issues become 'gamebreaking' only when you play with unrealistic tactics. With more reasonable tactics you still see them sometimes, but they don't 'define' the match. If it was a more balanced ME of course, it would not allow attacking teams to end up with 30-40+ shots each and every game, and it would also punish those tactics properly. Every attack ends with at least a shot, and many times with 3-4 shots within a few seconds, because defenders are continuously reacting slow, and they can't properly clear the ball. They really only get the ball back when the attack end with a shot that goes out.

As a result, I find myself keep coming back to the forums every night, hoping for some news from SI other than 'we are aware of issues and we are working on them'. Somebody suggested a developer diary, I have suggested many times that at least we should be informed about what is being worked on, and if there has been some progress/breakthrough on the issues. I am fully against those who think that paying for the game gives you a right to criticise the developers in a disrespectful manner, but I also think that it is unfair for the developers to keep all these people here providing feedback (some spend a lot of time uploading pkm's with descriptions and all) in the dark. Even a small list of weekly updates would be awesome imo.

[dannysheard]

Finally started a game. First three proper matches, 11 CCC in total, of which eight were genuine 1-on-1s, all missed... March it is, then.

[andu1]

Go buy yourself a striker with likes to lob keeper ppm.

 

 

Kidding, i think he was too far away to the keeper to be considered a one on one. Beautiful goal anyway.

[fm2020.smith]

3 hours ago, bleventozturk said:

It is kind of funny that when I watch some other people on youtube, playing attacking 4-2-4 for 90 minutes, end up with 40+ shots, the ME looks absolutely awful and unrealistic. After watching those, I really have a hard time getting back to playing myself. But when I do, I experience a significantly better ME with my tactical setups which I can describe as more 'reasonable', and I think 'ok, ME has obvious issues, especially on the defensive side, but it is still enjoyable'.  Reasonable input leads to reasonable output, and garbage in garbage out. Who in real life plays with 4 attackers for 90 minutes? Such overly offensive systems used in short bursts, typically towards the end of matches when teams are desperate for an equalizer. 

So yes, there are glaring issues. But the issues become 'gamebreaking' only when you play with unrealistic tactics. With more reasonable tactics you still see them sometimes, but they don't 'define' the match. If it was a more balanced ME of course, it would not allow attacking teams to end up with 30-40+ shots each and every game, and it would also punish those tactics properly. Every attack ends with at least a shot, and many times with 3-4 shots within a few seconds, because defenders are continuously reacting slow, and they can't properly clear the ball. They really only get the ball back when the attack end with a shot that goes out.

As a result, I find myself keep coming back to the forums every night, hoping for some news from SI other than 'we are aware of issues and we are working on them'. Somebody suggested a developer diary, I have suggested many times that at least we should be informed about what is being worked on, and if there has been some progress/breakthrough on the issues. I am fully against those who think that paying for the game gives you a right to criticise the developers in a disrespectful manner, but I also think that it is unfair for the developers to keep all these people here providing feedback (some spend a lot of time uploading pkm's with descriptions and all) in the dark. Even a small list of weekly updates would be awesome imo.

your top part of this is pretty much incorrect sorry to say this. i experimented with different things on the formation and the tactical option on the tactics screen.

so playing liverpools way of using a very hard working midfield base and 1 striker maybe on dof and 2 inside forwards. they will regularly get 25 + shots a game 8  really good chances and wont score or maybe we will score 1 or 2. now thats not unrealistic but watching the game the amount of easy chances is unrealistic, i dont want to win every game or score every chance i just want it to look like a game of football. i dont want to see the gk make crazy saves as its not realistic. i dont want to see world class defenders on either side play like sunday league which is resulting in a lot of the time the crazy amount of chances hence the massive amount of one on ones missed otherwise it would be a rugby score.

so i decided to experiment and i dropped all the tactics didnt ask them to do anything, everything was standard. pulled one defender and put them in as def mid and kept the rest of the shape as it was. now suddenly we was scoring and winning every game we played and the opposition wasnt really getting any chances. switch back to the 2 at the back and we had chances but suddenly we werent scoring and the opp was.

this demonstrates how you can play the me and not the game of football. thats what people are saying at the moment. it doesnt feel like a strategy game where your choices are making the difference between winning and losing. tactics pretty much dont matter as demonstrated when i took every tactical option out and we did better with only one defender. the game is still enjoyable as a whole but as a football strategy game it definitely has a lot of work to do. 

[rp1966]

9 hours ago, KUBI said:

They removed the tactic sliders (one of the biggest opportunities to cheat), they removed Wibblewobble, also used to cheat. Now the Me is a bit more complex, but also a lot more complicated to adjust. But there is no Diablo tactic anymore. 

 

That wasn't cheating - it was exposing the weakness of the 'AI' using the tactical tools provided.

To 'resolve' the issue  SI took the route that made it easiest for the programmers - by constraining user choices rather than the harder route of improving the 'AI' to cope with the tactical choices available.  Neither the range of tactics available via the fine-grained control of sliders or wibble-wobble represented an issue in regards to representation of football - they are merely interfaces to tactical setup - just an abstraction of  the reality of  a coach setting up the team as they want, just as the roles system is.  The real constraints on what are valid tactics are the imagination of the coach (see the historic evolution of IRL tactics for details) and the physical/technical capabilities of players to execute a coach's tactical vision.  

Wibble-wobble in particular is a very good representation of real tactics - teams do have an offensive and defensive shape,  The real problem with user tactical choices is that the ME is unable to cope with all combinations because it starts from an extremely weak foundation of the physical capabilities of players over the course of a match (something made worse by roles heavily overpowering attributes).  So in wibble wobble you could get players to run from advanced attacking positions to deep defensive ones all game in a way that would physically break them IRL, but the lack of decent physical representation of players means the game does it and it can't counter it.  This is still a problem today, but is exposed via 90 minute gegenpress tactics - hoofing is the resultant workaround - the fix involves players tiring during the match and it actually affecting how they play rather than just how likely they are to get injured  Until this weakness of the ME is addressed FM will never appproach being a simulation of football from the on-pitch perspective. 

 

Edited January 11, 2020 by rp1966

[Mitja]

7 hours ago, CaptainPlanet said:

Given the amounts of shots this me can produce many more games should finish like this. 

3 hours ago, bleventozturk said:

It is kind of funny that when I watch some other people on youtube, playing attacking 4-2-4 for 90 minutes, end up with 40+ shots, the ME looks absolutely awful and unrealistic. After watching those, I really have a hard time getting back to playing myself. But when I do, I experience a significantly better ME with my tactical setups which I can describe as more 'reasonable', and I think 'ok, ME has obvious issues, especially on the defensive side, but it is still enjoyable'.  Reasonable input leads to reasonable output, and garbage in garbage out

It has always been like that extreme tactics produced unrealistic games and statistics. No need for attacking 424 during all 90mins, I've seen plenty of games with extreme stats even in AI vs AI games. Too many shots, crosses, corners, strange possession stats etc. I think TC has become too advanced and me can't follow it anymore. It is obvious to me. How mentality works and affects all other instructions is major part of this problem.

[Pasonen]

29 minutes ago, fm2020.smith said:

dont want to win every game or score every chance i just want it to look like a game of football. i dont want to see the gk make crazy saves as its not realistic. i dont want to see world class defenders on either side play like sunday league which is resulting in a lot of the time the crazy amount of chances hence the massive amount of one on ones missed otherwise it would be a rugby score.

This!

Almost only reason i continue my season is that i dont forget my players and my tactic changes etc. (Ofc i write things down). Another reason is reporting bugs because i believe this ME got huge potential. Players are more alive. Too bad strikers are more mobile than defenders atm. Defending and supporting players need to be able to move more actively and with more anticipation. Thats why high tempo all players ATT "works" at the moment, high tempo and accurate passing is too easy to execute and high intensity game produces too little mistakes.

Edited January 11, 2020 by Pasonen

[haffaz77]

vor einer Stunde schrieb andu1:

Go buy yourself a striker with likes to lob keeper ppm.

 

 

Kidding, i think he was too far away to the keeper to be considered a one on one. Beautiful goal anyway.

Such a bad defensive behavior ... running into each other etc . 

[Novem9]

5 часов назад, bleventozturk сказал:

It is kind of funny that when I watch some other people on youtube, playing attacking 4-2-4 for 90 minutes, end up with 40+ shots, the ME looks absolutely awful and unrealistic. After watching those, I really have a hard time getting back to playing myself. But when I do, I experience a significantly better ME with my tactical setups which I can describe as more 'reasonable', and I think 'ok, ME has obvious issues, especially on the defensive side, but it is still enjoyable'.  Reasonable input leads to reasonable output, and garbage in garbage out. Who in real life plays with 4 attackers for 90 minutes? Such overly offensive systems used in short bursts, typically towards the end of matches when teams are desperate for an equalizer. 

So yes, there are glaring issues. But the issues become 'gamebreaking' only when you play with unrealistic tactics. With more reasonable tactics you still see them sometimes, but they don't 'define' the match. If it was a more balanced ME of course, it would not allow attacking teams to end up with 30-40+ shots each and every game, and it would also punish those tactics properly. Every attack ends with at least a shot, and many times with 3-4 shots within a few seconds, because defenders are continuously reacting slow, and they can't properly clear the ball. They really only get the ball back when the attack end with a shot that goes out.

As a result, I find myself keep coming back to the forums every night, hoping for some news from SI other than 'we are aware of issues and we are working on them'. Somebody suggested a developer diary, I have suggested many times that at least we should be informed about what is being worked on, and if there has been some progress/breakthrough on the issues. I am fully against those who think that paying for the game gives you a right to criticise the developers in a disrespectful manner, but I also think that it is unfair for the developers to keep all these people here providing feedback (some spend a lot of time uploading pkm's with descriptions and all) in the dark. Even a small list of weekly updates would be awesome imo.

Actually the best tactics totally unrealistic and this is clear confirmation about ME has basic problems. If it weren’t like that a lot of insane tactics will not beat everything. I don't play these tactics because its boring for me, but these tactics symptom of illness. They must be totally faulty, in fact vice versa - they are unstoppable.

It if we talking about  issues become 'gamebreaking' only when you play with unrealistic tactics.
I mean some players use exploit tactics to avoid damage from ME issues. But if your team create a lot of chances which can't finish technically, no gameplay - its 'gamebreaking' anyway because reason in all of this? Football about create chances in the end  

for example I created two nice tactics in last week - diamond and 3412. Its good in general but I clearly see issues why it not succesfull as can. I can change few settings (for example change striker pair from AF/DLF(s) for AF/AF) and it will be BETTER but I never will do this because its unrealistic (in context of my tactic at least) and I will no have fun, aesthetically including. So I just hope for 20.3 improves because have some drafts which want to test in better environment

Edited January 11, 2020 by Novem9

[KlaaZ]

41 minutes ago, haffaz77 said:

Such a bad defensive behavior ... running into each other etc . 

Newsflash: Defenders make mistakes. It's how 95% of all goals are scored.

[Mitja]

1 minute ago, KlaaZ said:

Newsflash: Defenders make mistakes. It's how 95% of all goals are scored.

They also forget how to run? Look at clip again when those two defenders run into each other and stop for moment. Looks lika fifa'98.

[KlaaZ]

3 minutes ago, Mitja said:

They also forget how to run? Look at clip again when those two defenders run into each other and stop for moment. Looks lika fifa'98.

 

And yes, it's Messi. But in a lot of cases it's still plain bad defending where players hamper each other.

[Mitja]

3 minutes ago, KlaaZ said:

 

And yes, it's Messi. But in a lot of cases it's still plain bad defending where players hamper each other.

they didn't touch each other. look at left centreback what's that? plus they both stop for a moment. but I agree it's a nice goal and not an extreme bug.

[Tiger666]

16 minutes ago, KlaaZ said:

Newsflash: Defenders make mistakes. It's how 95% of all goals are scored.

These defensive mistakes happen all the time. One of the worst things about the current match engine is the state of the defending. I've put in loads of examples in the bug forum.

 

[Mitja]

Good news looks we have major reasons why too many 1on1's happen. Bad news, there's no response to these threads.

 

[gechal]

From a long time player of this game, this year's version is fantastic.

Cheers SI 👍

[pheelf]

20 minutes ago, Tiger666 said:

These defensive mistakes happen all the time. One of the worst things about the current match engine is the state of the defending. I've put in loads of examples in the bug forum.

 

Is that Jonny Evans trying to emulate Van Dijk and dribble the ball out from the back?

[thejay]

vor 9 Stunden schrieb Kyznar:

SI need to start doing one thing game developers do more often now. "Developer Diary". Tell us whats going on and where youre at. Transparency is key in this modern consumer environment we live in, so we dont escalate frustrations into potentially incorrect assumptions/opinions. For a long running game series such as this there should be more back and forth between community and developers. Right now, it feels like a lot of back and no forth. 

Also, the typical response to what i just said would be to imply that delays can occur in the patching/development process and that some updates in specific areas may get pushed back or cancelled entirely, therefore it would unwise to create a "Developer Diary" that could have negative effect on the games image. For me though, IT IS OK to inform the player base about potential changes and then they dont actually get implemented due to unforeseen issues after said "Developer Diary" was released. YOU WILL NOT loose sales over this, I am still going to buy the latest version of the game even if I know that the following year there is a planned big feature/ME inclusion/update.

The point is, I firmly believe the current player base interaction strategy is completely outdated from SI Games.

I agree this would help a lot , more and more devs do that and I think its very important to keep the goodwill of the community 

Edited January 11, 2020 by thejay

[Chris21]

4 hours ago, dannysheard said:

Finally started a game. First three proper matches, 11 CCC in total, of which eight were genuine 1-on-1s, all missed... March it is, then.

Surely it will be before March that we see a patch?

[thejay]

vor 3 Minuten schrieb Chris21:

Surely it will be before March that we see a patch?

i do hope so, last year they had an open beta which received earlier updates, I wonder what happend to that idea

[Mitja]

6 minutes ago, Chris21 said:

Surely it will be before March that we see a patch?

no not surely, maybe. usually there are 3 there were already 2. 

[Sisamom]

vor 10 Minuten schrieb Mitja:

no not surely, maybe. usually there are 3 there were already 2. 

SI's last statement says that it is unsure that a patch will be released before march.

[Mitja]

Just now, Sisamom said:

SI's last statement says that it is unsure that a patch will be released before march.

march then

[Sisamom]

vor 9 Stunden schrieb Kyznar:

SI need to start doing one thing game developers do more often now. "Developer Diary". Tell us whats going on and where youre at. Transparency is key in this modern consumer environment we live in, so we dont escalate frustrations into potentially incorrect assumptions/opinions. For a long running game series such as this there should be more back and forth between community and developers. Right now, it feels like a lot of back and no forth. 

Also, the typical response to what i just said would be to imply that delays can occur in the patching/development process and that some updates in specific areas may get pushed back or cancelled entirely, therefore it would unwise to create a "Developer Diary" that could have negative effect on the games image. For me though, IT IS OK to inform the player base about potential changes and then they dont actually get implemented due to unforeseen issues after said "Developer Diary" was released. YOU WILL NOT loose sales over this, I am still going to buy the latest version of the game even if I know that the following year there is a planned big feature/ME inclusion/update.

The point is, I firmly believe the current player base interaction strategy is completely outdated from SI Games.

I agree 100 %. 

[emil_sbn]

The devs are not working at the weekends I assume otherwise an update on this matter would have been very much welcome.

Its been 3 weeks now since the last update from Neil, please just so we can stop speculating on this.

But I guess it can also be so easy as they havent got anything to report.

[JordanMilly]

58 minutes ago, Sisamom said:

SI's last statement says that it is unsure that a patch will be released before march.

That is incorrect - the whole "March" suggestion was pure speculation from users who don't work for SI, and if people could stop posting misinformation like that as if it was fact, that'd be great.

As per Neil's last post:

They didn't believe they would get a patch out before New Years, which was correct, due to the holiday period. SI have never said anything about potentially not having a further patch out until March.

[Sisamom]

vor 9 Minuten schrieb JordanMillward_1:

That is incorrect - the whole "March" suggestion was pure speculation from users who don't work for SI, and if people could stop posting misinformation like that as if it was fact, that'd be great.

As per Neil's last post:

They didn't believe they would get a patch out before New Years, which was correct, due to the holiday period. SI have never said anything about potentially not having a further patch out until March.

What i said is correct. A member of SI wrote last week in the bug section that a release before march is unsecure and that's a fact.

[dannysheard]

The one-on-ones makes FM feel like an elite sniper game where when you finally come to take the shot, after hours of preparation, there's an 80% chance your guy will put away his usual rifle and use a Minions Fart Gun instead.

[Lucas]

8 minutes ago, Sisamom said:

What i said is correct. A member of SI wrote last week in the bug section that a release before march is unsecure and that's a fact.

Cut the speculation and word twisting please. There is no date yet for an update and suggestions otherwise is pure speculation.

We don't make announcements when they will be due to the nature of software development. It'll be ready and out when it's ready, and only then will there for sure be an announcement.