OldSwanner Posted November 22, 2012 Share Posted November 22, 2012 The FM2013 ME is a new model and its the nature of the beast that it will take several updates to find optimum balance. Its also inevitable that some people will run into trouble as updates fix flaws that allowed their tactics to thrive previously.There is no other way of creating the ME that we all want, than this process, and I make no apologies for that. Hear hear .. we all want the same thing, and it's fascinating watching it being developed! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarmel Posted November 22, 2012 Share Posted November 22, 2012 I really dislike this me , i can handle a few bugs here and there, but when a winger is all by himself on the wing no one with in 20 yards of him he stops turns around and passes back to the defenders :/ He has attacking mentallity run often cross often , there is a box full of his players to aim for . This isnt a bug its bad code , he is winger ffs sake what they do is run with ball and cross it , Serioulsy how can they code him not to do this ?? And no i wont send in any bug report ffs play the game your selves and watch the matches using the default tactics and see how bad , (not buggy) but how bad the code is . FYI i am second in the league so this isnt a losing at game rant its a rant at bad programming , not the bugs just pure and simple bad progamming . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dazbowski Posted November 22, 2012 Share Posted November 22, 2012 I was using the classic tactics, now i'm ditching it and going for the TC. Regardless of how or why I got Stalybridge to the Prem (it's a game) the fact is 7 game years of tweaking and tactic and getting all the right players in (both experienced and filling my youth squad) I now have to throw it all out and start again. Feels like all that invested time has been wasted. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herbert Fandel Posted November 22, 2012 Share Posted November 22, 2012 I was using the classic tactics, now i'm ditching it and going for the TC.Regardless of how or why I got Stalybridge to the Prem (it's a game) the fact is 7 game years of tweaking and tactic and getting all the right players in (both experienced and filling my youth squad) I now have to throw it all out and start again. Hyperbole to bring the players into it, there is no possible reason to suggest you need to change your players. In fact it is pretty standard FM to build a tactic to suit your squad's strengths, rather than to force a square peg into a round hole. I too am struggling post-patch, but I'm still happy with my squad! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ackter Posted November 22, 2012 Share Posted November 22, 2012 I really dislike this me , i can handle a few bugs here and there, but when a winger is all by himself on the wing no one with in 20 yards of him he stops turns around and passes back to the defenders :/ He has attacking mentallity run often cross often , there is a box full of his players to aim for . This isnt a bug its bad code , he is winger ffs sake what they do is run with ball and cross it , Serioulsy how can they code him not to do this ?? And no i wont send in any bug report ffs play the game your selves and watch the matches using the default tactics and see how bad , (not buggy) but how bad the code is . FYI i am second in the league so this isnt a losing at game rant its a rant at bad programming , not the bugs just pure and simple bad progamming . John Barnes syndrome. If you can't be bothered to make a bug report, please also apply that apathy to your general posting. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr U Rosler Posted November 22, 2012 Share Posted November 22, 2012 Hear hear .. we all want the same thing, and it's fascinating watching it being developed! I've no doubt this will be the greatest version ever when the balancing have been resolved. My dilemma is that in the meantime, i won promotion 4 times in a row in the original match engine to get my non league side to the premier league. I know that would not be possible under the current ME so I feel like I am in a 'false' position and should restart all over again. But i know I may be grinding it out in the lower leagues for season after season which though realistic, is not as much fun. Then there will be another patch and i'll have to start again! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dazbowski Posted November 22, 2012 Share Posted November 22, 2012 The problem is i'm set up for a 352 and it seems to be ineffective now. I have zero wingers and zero money. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dazbowski Posted November 22, 2012 Share Posted November 22, 2012 Mr Rosler. Nail.Head.Hit. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ackter Posted November 22, 2012 Share Posted November 22, 2012 The problem is i'm set up for a 352 and it seems to be ineffective now. I have zero wingers and zero money. I'm playing a 352 with no problems. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SI Staff PaulC Posted November 22, 2012 Author SI Staff Share Posted November 22, 2012 I was using the classic tactics, now i'm ditching it and going for the TC. I think that is a very good move personally :-) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
valehannes Posted November 22, 2012 Share Posted November 22, 2012 I've no doubt this will be the greatest version ever when the balancing have been resolved.My dilemma is that in the meantime, i won promotion 4 times in a row in the original match engine to get my non league side to the premier league. I know that would not be possible under the current ME so I feel like I am in a 'false' position and should restart all over again. But i know I may be grinding it out in the lower leagues for season after season which though realistic, is not as much fun. Then there will be another patch and i'll have to start again! It is still possible with the current match engine Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Äktsjon Männ Posted November 22, 2012 Share Posted November 22, 2012 My first impressions are that the update is a big improvement. My BSS side now actually play like one instead of Barcelonaing everyone into oblivion. The play is a lot more scrappy and it feels rewarding to get periods of good passing together. The defense is tighter and tackling is more effective (and less likely to end in bookings/reds). Still looks like players often have no idea where the ball is or what it's there for but it seems to be improving. I also like the variety in GK play (except their distribution ofc) but they occasionally still seem to react to shots too early which looks weird. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herbert Fandel Posted November 22, 2012 Share Posted November 22, 2012 so I feel like I am in a 'false' position and should restart all over again. Then there will be another patch and i'll have to start again! Mr Rosler. Nail.Head.Hit. Football manager is a football game, and therefore the usage of footballing cliches is perfectly appropriate. "You can only beat what is set in front of you" No false position, no need to restart, just a new challenge! At least that it how I am trying to see it. Pre-patch I was having a pretty relentless march to victory, not least because normally in FM in leagues such as the SPL success has a kind of snow-ball effect, once you begin to have a bit of it you get enough money to go on and basically never lose. The new patch has changed that, I am having to fight to maintain my results. Certainly not that impact the devs intended, but an enjoyable challenge nonetheless Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rigga89 Posted November 22, 2012 Share Posted November 22, 2012 I was using the classic tactics, now i'm ditching it and going for the TC.Regardless of how or why I got Stalybridge to the Prem (it's a game) the fact is 7 game years of tweaking and tactic and getting all the right players in (both experienced and filling my youth squad) I now have to throw it all out and start again. Feels like all that invested time has been wasted. You don't need to overhaul anything. Just make sure you have a balance of players participating in the attacking and defensive phases of play and that you play to your players' strengths. Don't play long balls to fast players, don't persist trying through balls to a fast striker if the opposition is sitting deep and so on. No one claims that the match engine is a perfect simulation of football, but if you use some common sense in the way you approach the game you can still succeed and enjoy it in the process! If you post a thread in the tactics forum and include screenshots of your current tactic and PM me the link I'll give some advice where I can Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dazbowski Posted November 22, 2012 Share Posted November 22, 2012 I'm just frustrated I think , after all teh work of getting where I did with this tactic it just feels I'm having to start again. I'll invest more time this time on the TC rather than classic and hopefuly it'll be more patch proof. I saw somebody saying 352 was effective still. Are you using width and the wingback attacking and crossing or playing through the middle? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ackter Posted November 22, 2012 Share Posted November 22, 2012 I'm using wide midfielders (either fullbacks or wingers that I've retrained) in the ML and MR position. The only thing I've done to my tactics is set the philosophy to attacking, the passing to direct and set up a few of the player roles. CD defend BPD cover CD defend Anchor Wide Midfielder support Central Midfielder attack Box to Box support Wide Midfielder support Poacher Deep Lying Forward attack Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arnoldzhu Posted November 22, 2012 Share Posted November 22, 2012 I for one am still used to using old classic tactics. Never get adept to TC and prefer not messing with tweaking too many individual instructions. and would like the game keeping old classic tactics until one day maybe we can give out instructions to players in more direct or natural human language or expression instead of ticking slide bars. Well, actually what I mean is TC tweaks too much of individual instructions overriding 'team instructions'. i'm just not getting it, never mind. maybe I just like messing with slide bars. Ha. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dking Posted November 22, 2012 Share Posted November 22, 2012 Strikers still not shooting when they could, or should be. Also seems like strikers through the middle struggle to score more. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr U Rosler Posted November 22, 2012 Share Posted November 22, 2012 I'm just frustrated I think , after all teh work of getting where I did with this tactic it just feels I'm having to start again. I'll invest more time this time on the TC rather than classic and hopefuly it'll be more patch proof. I saw somebody saying 352 was effective still. Are you using width and the wingback attacking and crossing or playing through the middle? I am actually leaning toward a standard 442. two banks of 4 to break down seems quite effective in defence. you get killed playing wingbacks with teams exploiting the space in behind. You try any fancy formations in midfield you get overrun. So 442 seems to provide cover both outwide and thru the middle. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dazbowski Posted November 22, 2012 Share Posted November 22, 2012 Cheers Ackter, i'll use that model and see what happens. Think i'll start a new game with Celtic and test it. Then when i'm happy i'll implement it in my Stalybridge save. I really struggled to score from crosses in my formation so I hope this helps that as well. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clifton Posted November 22, 2012 Share Posted November 22, 2012 I use the Tactics Creator. Took a little while to settle with the previous version, and decided to have a new save for the update. Yes it is not perfect but it is better than anything on offer before. I don't change any slides, just the strategy (balanced, control etc) to suit the opposition and state of the game, and detailed roles (winger, inside forward etc) to suit the strengths of a particular player. This gives enough interest for the manager, me, without taxing the (limited) intelligence of your average footballer by changing things round too much, or rying to get them to do things they are not up to. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
junker Posted November 22, 2012 Share Posted November 22, 2012 The FM2013 ME is a new model and its the nature of the beast that it will take several updates to find optimum balance. Its also inevitable that some people will run into trouble as updates fix flaws that allowed their tactics to thrive previously.There is no other way of creating the ME that we all want, than this process, and I make no apologies for that. Can I ask out of interest, of those of you who are finding it difficult, how many are using the old classic tactics vs the Tactics Creator? Had it ever occurred to the SI team to not a release a version this year and do a data update and release a game with ME that works from launch and does not need 7 updates (really 7 and you still have mods saying everything is fine?????) This post just shows that we are basically still beta testing the ME, which does not sit quite right since we have shelled out our £££££. You did data updates in the past didn't you, is it something you would personally have liked Paul or something that is not considered, or to much pressure from SEGA? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SI Staff PaulC Posted November 22, 2012 Author SI Staff Share Posted November 22, 2012 Had it ever occurred to the SI team to not a release a version this year and do a data update and release a game with ME that works from launch and does not need 7 updates (really 7 and you still have mods saying everything is fine?????) This post just shows that we are basically still beta testing the ME, which does not sit quite right since we have shelled out our £££££.You did data updates in the past didn't you, is it something you would personally have liked Paul or something that is not considered, or to much pressure from SEGA? We are a business and our business model is based on a release per season. So its not even up for debate. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CityAndColour Posted November 22, 2012 Share Posted November 22, 2012 Enjoying the closing down in midfield, but having some enormous issues with centre-halves now, to the point where they don't even attempt to react to balls played near them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Welshace Posted November 22, 2012 Share Posted November 22, 2012 This is only based on one game so far in the new ME. But there is a clear difference since the patch... and it's a positive one from me so far. It was great to see a lesser team play the ball much more directly It was great to see my team stop with the side ways 20 passes before getting it forward routine, players genuinely look like they are looking for a way through. The ball trajectories seem a lot more on point (crosses, long passes, goalkeeper kicks, shots) So far so good. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DP Posted November 22, 2012 Share Posted November 22, 2012 General feedback - will post examples separately later: 1. FAR too many runs along the line, player goes right up to the near post to thump in (or miss, but the move is the same). I see one of these every few games or so playing 4-4-2 on control. I don't think I've seen a similar goal all season IRL 2. Most free kicks still appear to be scored through the centre of the goal. I'm yet to see any free kick scored in the top corner since the release Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
daylight Posted November 22, 2012 Share Posted November 22, 2012 A slightly longer video with build up play to at least 3 /facepalm moments. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisNUFC Posted November 22, 2012 Share Posted November 22, 2012 We are a business and our business model is based on a release per season. So its not even up for debate. Miles gotta have that Turkey. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kriss Posted November 22, 2012 Share Posted November 22, 2012 Do any moderators or developers dislike the new patch? Or is it only hundreds of consumers? Nope, the updates are definite improvements as far as I'm concerned, I have an issue with poor teams performing well against their betters too consistently but I think that's on the list for investigation already. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SI Staff PaulC Posted November 22, 2012 Author SI Staff Share Posted November 22, 2012 A slightly longer video with build up play to at least 3 /facepalm moments. pkm in bugs forum? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kosecki99 Posted November 22, 2012 Share Posted November 22, 2012 Strikers still not shooting when they could, or should be. Also seems like strikers through the middle struggle to score more. The same!!!!!!!!!!ARRRGGGGG!!!. Some solution???? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fmFutbolManager Posted November 22, 2012 Share Posted November 22, 2012 woah. A lot of tactical discussion to digest. I've been holding off playing and reading some of the hints and tips in here, noting where required. I know it's not a tactical forum, but since everyone is talking tactics, wwfan you suggest you play with a DLF and Poacher. Out of interest, would it matter which side they played, i.e., would you play your right footed poacher on the left to enable him to react to through balls down the middle better and not be on his weaker foot? The DLF on the right as he will have time to drop deeper and shift it to his better foot. Also, with an Poacher A and DLF S role. Would you encourage wingers on the respective sides to have a specific mentality? For example, if you set up with the Poacher on the left, would you encourage a left winger to be supporting deeper or attacking? Same applies to the DLF? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luka_zg Posted November 22, 2012 Share Posted November 22, 2012 anybody tried to set CB's to short passing so they stop trying direct balls to the front men and having 15 bad passes per game? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottGooner Posted November 22, 2012 Share Posted November 22, 2012 Aside from the rubbishness of keepers, the new patch is good, my team is creating chances and looking like a 'football' team. The only thing is I'm not scoring on every shot I take surely a bug, right? I do have a couple of video's I could post(if I knew what folder they were in). I've had keepers falling down after getting the ball and a striker having an easy tap-in(happened once for me and once against me), also had the oppostion keeper take a free kick about ten yards out from his area and score from said free kick. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarmel Posted November 22, 2012 Share Posted November 22, 2012 "anybody tried to set CB's to short passing so they stop trying direct balls to the front men and having 15 bad passes per game? " Doesnt work they cant find a short option and still boot it long, even tho there is 2 midfielders free in front of them , That is my experience playng with a league one side. Same as trying to get the keeper to play out from the back, sure he might pass it to my FB, Fb then passes it back to the keeper whom then hoofs it up field. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajw10 Posted November 22, 2012 Share Posted November 22, 2012 Game still no fun for me, sorry. Pressing finally works and sometimes my players tackle, through balls also work but unfortunately my defenders still never track runners, my strikers don't shoot when one on one with the keeper and I'm conceding goals from impossible angles. I also enjoyed a free kick my team had right at the end of the match. It was 3-3, I really needed the win and we win a free kick just inside their half. We stick everyone forward, my player stands over the free kick and is surely going to whip one in for our last attack. Nope, he turns around and hits it all the way back to my goalkeeper. Ref blows for full time. Amazing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BiggusD Posted November 22, 2012 Share Posted November 22, 2012 I can guarantee you that when I get to the top flight and have a good playing surface and highly technical players, I will play a lone forward, short-passing, continental style counter-attacking system. I can also guarantee that I'll succeed with it, no matter which ME is live when I start using it. Mainly because I play the game, not the ME. Yes so you feel that FM has finally managed to make it so that you need a certain quality of players in order to play nice attacking football? A L2 winger with 11 in dribbling and 13 in pace will no longer be good enough at running with the ball that you can rely on him going past his marker for chance creation? (11-13 is good in L2). So in the lower leagues you need to play direct, simple football to succeed even though you have good players for that level, because 13.1.3 requires more -absolute- skill to play quick combinations and one-twos, instead of the more -relative- skill required previously? If so, that is excellent, because I have requested this for well over a year. However, it is a "truth" that many managers don't realize, and it is difficult to spot it in highlights. Previously (13.1.2) good players are suddenly rubbish in 13.1.3 and the reason -may- be too adventurous strategies. Therefore, my old tactic works with Swansea but not with Salisbury even though the former is a weak team for its level while the latter is a strong team for its level, because Salisbury simply don't have what it takes to "pull it off". This is information that should go out to all of SI's customers as a "guide" to 13.1.3; Continental possession football is no longer a "sound tactic" for the lower levels of football. You now need to play differently depending on if you are Salisbury City or Manchester City. For the record, I have also abandoned Classic for the moment - until through balls are tuned down a bit. I don't have any problems using a TC+shout tactic in principle, though. As I have said many times, I do what works, so when a mainly default, simple 5-3-2 tactic with sweeper, dlp and wingbacks is working for me then I'm happy. I actually have a specific TC question for you: What is the thought behind Tempo increasing along with Mentality in Team Instructions? You see, the first time I played with this 5-3-2 tactic Width was set to 10 (in the middle) and the result was that the opposition wingers had too much space to run in. I then manually adjusted width to 14 (click before Wide) and the problem disappeared. The next match I set Strategy to Control instead to get the same effect, but then I struggled to retain possession and to create good chances. So I manually set Tempo to 10 again and -that- problem then disappeared. I could set Passing to Short and adjust Width manually since the Tempo was then allright (allowing both long attacks and quick attacks the way I like it), but I fear losing possession in dangerous positions since this is just Blackburn after all. So, to be more direct: why quicker tempo when attacking, and why more narrow when short passing? Thank you. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butters76 Posted November 22, 2012 Share Posted November 22, 2012 After the update my Ass man hasn't been happy once, neither at half time nor full time. Always wants me to tell the players it was far from good enough, and who can blame him the way we play. I have tried all kinds of tactics. 4-4-2, 4-2-3-1, 4-5-1 but can't hit the goal. I have every player on long shots rarely, but all I get is longshots (about 80% longshots) they have options to play, but decides to go for longshots. Never get the average rating over 7 in matches either anymore. Even if I tell every player to go TB often, long shot rarely they won't even try TB's. You see players in great positions to get TB's, but nobody will try them, they'd rather shot from 25 yards. Better wait until january and the final update to even play it anymore, before I'm start breaking **** in my computer room Ofcoz the update came when I finally had managed to make a tactics that worked for the previous ME. The game is simply annoying. SI, next year please release a beta demo a month before release so you get some valuable feedback to work with the last month. Maybe I should just buy Fifa manager to see if thats enjoyable now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Welshace Posted November 22, 2012 Share Posted November 22, 2012 Frankly, anyone who's attempting Tika Taka in the lower leagues deserve to fail... Of course you can't replicate that style down there with those players. Play to your strengths.. it's always been the same. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
taylorsmen Posted November 22, 2012 Share Posted November 22, 2012 Was looking at the 'average positions' after being thumped 5-1 and something I've ignored but noticed many a time is how close the AI teams central mids and central defs are compared to mine - we're both playing a 4-4-2.The AI players are almost literally in the same place on the map whereas mine are far apart. Anyone else noticed this? Don't know what to make of it but it's definitely still there in this ME. I've noticed this too, how do the AI set the centre backs to be so tight ? is it possible in the settings for us human managers to get centre backs so tight ? anyone know ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hluraven Posted November 22, 2012 Share Posted November 22, 2012 Frankly, anyone who's attempting Tika Taka in the lower leagues deserve to fail... Of course you can't replicate that style down there with those players. Play to your strengths.. it's always been the same. Can you please tell our manager that IRL ;D Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DIJRP Posted November 22, 2012 Share Posted November 22, 2012 We are a business and our business model is based on a release per season. So its not even up for debate. with great respect, I really don't like this (old) business model. It's time to change it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Widzew Posted November 22, 2012 Share Posted November 22, 2012 anyone else getting lots of red cards? both for and against you. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
milnerpoint Posted November 22, 2012 Share Posted November 22, 2012 with great respect, I really don't like this (old) business model. It's time to change it. So because you dont like it, you expect an entire company to change the way they work to suit what you want? Buy a £30 game and think you can run the company, astounding. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dazbowski Posted November 22, 2012 Share Posted November 22, 2012 I'm sorry that's wrong, if you have the best players and are supperior to the opposition you can certainly play a passing game in the lower leagues. Maybe not the same as Barca but you can. That comment is very condesending. Do you ever watch "real" lower league football? I do and i can tell there are some very good teams who play passing football. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herbert Fandel Posted November 22, 2012 Share Posted November 22, 2012 with great respect, I really don't like this (old) business model. It's time to change it. Regardless of your views on the model, this is quite a naive comment. All computer games companies are out to make money, it is part of being a company. In the process of making their money SI listen to/care about their customers a hell of a lot than others in the industry. anyone who bought a chEAp football add-on this summer will know what I mean Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevemc Posted November 22, 2012 Share Posted November 22, 2012 I'm using classic tactics (one I created and evolved since FM11), and I'm having good results, just as I did in FM11, 12 and now 13. So I don't/can't use touchline shouts. I just don't see all this agro people are posting in here? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Widzew Posted November 22, 2012 Share Posted November 22, 2012 Can I ask out of interest, of those of you who are finding it difficult, how many are using the old classic tactics vs the Tactics Creator? stupid question.. I set mine up by going into the tactics screen... which one am I using? Ive never heard of this old classic tactics and the tactics creator. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrew bowditch Posted November 22, 2012 Share Posted November 22, 2012 Since the Patch i have to be honest things are looking much better. Tax - The Money being paid out has dropped from 9M a month down to £2M. Much more manageable. Own Goals - Not seen any own goals in 7 games played. Defending - My defenders actually defend - its a miracle - even set a new clean sheet record. Attacking - I ahve seen no difference, it still works fine, some games are 1-0 with low shots, some are 3-1 or 4-1 with many shots. Injuries - Small increase, but nothing major. i was having no innjuries before, and now ive had 3 short term ones in 6 or 7 games, so this seems about right, nothing major to report. Cards - 1 Red Card in 7 games (a second yellow for a youngster with poor mental stats) Overall 100% better since the update. The only thing ive noticed since the update that looked off was: 1 - Corner being taken, goes over everyone to the person standing at far end of panalty box, who then heads it out of play for a goal kick instead of taking a touch and crossing it back in? they always have loads of time too. 2 - opposition GK making a hash of a simple catch twice in 2 games (havent noticed it since then) allowing my striker to score 2 tap ins from edge of the box. Not that im complaining yet. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
milnerpoint Posted November 22, 2012 Share Posted November 22, 2012 stupid question.. I set mine up by going into the tactics screen... which one am I using? Ive never heard of this old classic tactics and the tactics creator. Your using the tactics creator. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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