Football Manager 2024 Official Feedback Thread

[tezcatlipoca665]

16 hours ago, SaintEtienne said:

The logic is still often bizarre. My pet hate is the juvenile wording of many exchanges: would a board really tell me to “stop wasting their” time if I dare to suggest a club improvement? Would a player really tell their manager that they don’t think they can drop my treatment of them (praising their performance)? Some of this stuff is embarrassingly bad; it’s been in the game for years, and it’s still there.

It's always been so funny to me reading the pre-written responses in the interactions, because they seriously come across like they've been written by somebody that's spent most of their life arguing on message boards still in their memories of early 2000's 'flame wars', and not somebody with a lot of actual legitimate conversations with people.

Edited November 24, 2023 by tezcatlipoca665

[kiwityke1983]

5 hours ago, Rashidi said:

You should also link the team detailed stats, ie. from goals scored - how many from corners, IDFK, FK and Penalties. I have scored 62 goals with Gloucester and 37% have come from setpieces, that doesn’t even include throw ins since it isn’t tracked. Goals per game might be fine for the league but the source of the goals is something I am finding a bit off. I am no expert on lower league statistics and I am curious if that number is realistic.

Anywhere between 25-40% of goals IRL come from set pieces depending on the league and level.

I dunno what the exact number is for the VNS

[Etebaer]

Stil not having played a match since i ended my first season as the game to date is exclusively dark skin and i can not handle a Heavy Workload Dark Skin UI as it tired out and hurts m eyes after only a short time.

Playing Motorsport Manager and right now Death Stranding DC (got it for 12 Euros on sale - really good game of a different kind) instead - which both have sort of a Dark Skin and a Dark Skin but their savior is that they are Light Workload UIs!

Oposite to FM where i look at the certain pages of the UI intensively between the matches and the balance is probably 80/20 weighted in UI vs 3D Match watchtime the other two games have a 20/80 UI/Match watchtime and the huge amount i spend looking a game graphics instead a dark UI gives my eyes a rest to my endurance so in this other games i am less stressed and i can play for much much longer. 

I really wish that a successful business like SI spends the miniscule amount of UI dev time to offer their paying customers an UI in a design they can work with!

So pls SI - do it!

 

PS: I do not even use black keyboards bcs i can read them so bad - i need dark letters on a light background to read well!

Edited November 24, 2023 by Etebaer

[Major Raver]

Thank you to Madsheep2001, for engaging with us on here, not easy at times.  I've played CM and FM since the very first red box back in 92.  Seen some great versions, and the odd bad one.  I still play CM97 and 01/02 on my mobile phone.

 

Really am though disappointed with Miles and the attitude of many at Si Games.  They told us how polished this version is, the best AI, and the truth is its the worst in the 30 year history, anyone wanting to play a proper long term save can't.  Yet Miles is still gloating on twitter about the success.  Game was obviously not fit for release and should have been delayed, testing process obviously didn't do its job either.  Seem to me those playing early were those gloating about super tactics they had made for Man City or PSG on their YouTube channels, and not spotting the glaring issues.

 

I be happy to pay full price for FM25 next year and test it months early to get major bugs sorted before launch, I'm sure other real fans would to.  So many here support and are constructive, but at the moment we have been treated poorly to a product not fit for purpose and basically told to wait 2 months in the hope it may work.

[KingCanary]

Very minor UI gripe.

Going through my scouting update cards, some have the text in the 'ask agent' box and some don't. This means the buttons to acknowledge and disgard move around, leading to either clicking on nothing or accidentally clicking the discard button when I want to acknowledge. Can be frustrating when you've got nearly 100 to go through. 

[Rowingkid]

12 hours ago, Arnar said:

I loved the game in early access.

I see too many mistakes from my players, while opponents seem to make little to no mistakes against me.

I see the same goals over and over.

Free kick in the middle of the pitch, headed away straight to the set piece taker who either runs in to the box and scores or he passes to a player on the edge of the box who is unmarked and scores.

Ball gets cleared after a corner or a set piece out wide to a player who the puts it into the top corner.

Players just deciding to pass the ball to a player on the other side of the pitch straight to a player who runs through and scores.

Center backs just ignoring the striker who runs in behind them and scores, my player usually are called offside in the rare occasion they  make the same run.

My gks are always underperform on the expected goals prevented and in save percentence. I have a 4 star gk for the league im in.

I dont see the point in II teams in germany they never play a game and are semi professional and my backroom staff pester me with wanting to promote player to the II team.

I have taken a team from 3 Liga to bundesliga in 3 seasons and im not even a favorite person.

The scouting center is a choir, you need to really tinker with it, so you dont get the same players who are on the shortlist in every scouting update.

Intermidiate suggestions on players who are on my not interested list.

Since the first season some team go on mid season break, mine hasnt gone in 2 years.

2nd this stuff and would also add my worst hate - free kick on my own touchline , always passed straight to the OP forward for a goal. never once has that happened for me (TBH shouldn't happen at all they would just pass to GK or boot up field) happens two or three times per season too

In general you can pretty much tell as soon as the clip starts what is going to happen once you've played for a bit. 

Also 2026 summer window, a load of the saudi players are all going out of contract. you go to get them and they want 400K PW. based on their current wage i get it, but logically they all know that european clubs aren't going to pay that so they would have to adjust coming back/ Also odd they aren't being extended by Saudi. Neymar ended up free agent last year, i tried to get him before he expired and he had no interest. When he expired i could have got him on 39K P/W haha

 

Edited November 24, 2023 by Rowingkid

[Kane10]

I've been always annoyed with amount of players asking for a new contract during previous years FMs. However this year I feel like I am experiencing it more. If I have a young player improving I feel like I have to give him a new contract every 6 months. I just started with Juventus and 4 games into the season suspended Fagioli came to me asking for a new contract . I hate it more when they get unhappy after rejecting a new contract. The shallow dialogs with the players and the resulting unhappiness spoil my enjoyment of the game. 

[whatsupdoc]

Second season with Fiorentina and I've signed 13 wonderkids + 2 on the way, no minimum release clauses demanded. Won the treble first season but still, seems off.

 

[IrishRovers]

2 hours ago, Fr0ufrou said:

I very much like the FM series because it's unique and it's the only game in this niche, I also love football but seriously this game has no respect for us or our time. It's like a big brother that gives you the second controller and promises you are doing something.

Most of the systems in the game straight up do not work, we all think they do so we are having fun nonetheless but we are just roleplaying. We are imagining playing our great link up attacker as a false 9 works well and is some Pep genius while he would in fact score as many assists in any other attacking role. He would overall perfom better, both as a creator and a scorer as an advanced forward with the "take more risks" instruction. We might think it does, because it makes sense and it should, but the truth is it doesn't. There are litteral millions of FM-Arena simulated matches that point to this same exact conclusion every new game and every patch.

Most of the attributes are broken. Every year, someone over there tests the attributes and finds out half of them are useless in this game engine's iteration. Who could have guessed tackling and marking are useless attributes for central defenders? No I'm not pulling your leg this is the actual state of the game, test it for yourself and see.

Training is a scam. After watching evidence based football manager's training videos, I felt really defeated. All this time spent planning training for the month amounted to nothing, it was all a useless joke. In fact it was often even worse than doing nothing at all: I was replacing general training with specialized training which is straight up worse in every way. It was all some busywork to make me feel like I was in control. It did nothing for player progression and it didn't have any influence on the matches. This kind of gamedesign is really cruel, it's akin to candy crush saga and it's really a slap in the face.

When someone on these forums pointed the Devs to the EBFM video "does match preparation raise your chance of winning?" (the answer was no of course). I remember reading the feedback would go upwards, they would investigate and do something about it. Well they did, they simply removed the system in this year's iteration. Oopsie, it was never there, this system was broken but the rest of the game works, promise.

Most roles are completely dumb and are just a strictly inferior version of some other role (check FM arena and test **** for yourself). When it comes to tactics, most of the instructions barely do anything while a few of them do everything. Very high line and press have been broken for half a decade now and it's pretty much the only thing that actually matters if you want to win. Formations are an afterthought, just set your mentality to attack, your high line, 6 or 7 of players on an attack role and enjoy your 5-2 win. There is this elitist mentality that some of us are better at the game than the people who just "download a tactic". Well that's just really ironic because in their own way the people downloading tactics were right all along. Tinkering with support roles based on real life football is indeed a waste of time. Of course it's fun, and thats the important thing, but we are just roleplaying and making our own fun. The game itself does nothing for you.

Staff is useless, loan managers, technical directors, data scientists ("wow he is very good at analyzing data, that must be super helpful for a data scientist!") even coach star ratings barely amount to anything. It's all mindless excel busywork, a fantasy about making your numbers go up. The simulation itself might be even more shallow than cookie clicker.

Here's what some of you are going to tell me: "Don't use the broken stuff, make your own fun, play the game in a way that's fun for you etc.". Well yeah, I kind of tried that, I could maybe roleplay a smaller side with a defensive tactic and fight to avoid relegation. That might be fun until I face Liverpool or United playing attacking gegenpress. This is a sports game, the goal is to win, why would anyone purposely avoid using a good strategy in order to have fun? First do not use high line, then don't use attacking mentality, then don't use Attack Wingbacks (yes fullbacks are very much a scam by the way), then don't use low crosses. Congratulations, you are now losing games, you are getting the real manager experience, come back next year to buy our next 60$ database upgrade.

The worst part is that this **** has been broken for years and that SI, on top of not fixing it are just adding more busywork on top. Player agents are still as shallow but you have to go through an additional useless dialogue now. They added Club Vision so that your board can enforce the same stupid arbitrary requirements every time you play (preferred: make the most of set-pieces) ".

Now I know some of you are hardcore FM fans that are going to deny that the stats provided by FM-Arena users and the Evidence based Football Manager youtube channel are true. "These people don't know how to do proper data science and their evidence is flawed :nerdface-emoji:".

Well yes, those are amateurs that play the game like you and me, not actual data-scientists. They poured hundreds of hours in testing the game, if you were intellectually honest and actually watched their evidence and methdology, you would realize they are most definitely right about the stuff they find out, it's all so painfully obvious.

The reason the game never truly explains its mechanics is that they do not work. Every single piece of evidence points to that. I don't get that some of you hardcore fans are defending it over and over again. There is this ridiculous fan culture here and on reddit defending the game tooth and nail. Just stop silencing us, help us call out the ******** and give actual feedback. Help us make the game better instead of defending every bad practice. Football Manager could be a great game but it is not, help us complain and get the devs working on the right stuff.

I am not trying to ruin your fun, playing FM can be incredibly fun, even in its poor state. It's a great roleplaying tool in a big sandbox simulated world which is the best kind of game. But the reason the game is good is ourselves, we are creating our own fun. The game itself is just helping. And it could definitely help a lot better than it currently does.

This is exactly right. It's Potemkin villages all over the place.

[glenjamin]

I find myself checking the forum daily in hope of an early release of the upcoming patch. I'm incredibly excited to begin a long term save as I've been itching to get going since the Beta. Thing is though I hold out very little hope the patch will fix things based on past experience. If that's the case and we're expected to wait for a full fix in March that will be me officially done with this game for good. I've lost count of how many versions I've only been able to start playing in March. Not again. 

[Wrap God]

Mr. Fr0ufrou above summed up how I feel about the state of the game perfectly, but I'll add some feedback anyway to (hopefully) try to get the point across to SI.

This is the first time in years that I've decided to not staight-up buy the game and instead try it out through Game Pass and I'm really disappointed to say that I have already uninstalled it.

• ME: Yes, it is an upgrade. Bravo, you actually managed to significantly improve one aspect of the game that has been begging for a major update for years, while seeing only incremental improvements previously.
• However, the positioning and behaviour of players, mainly in defensive transitions is mind boggling. Moon walking, standing still and ball watching, you name it.
• Year after year I was impatiently waiting for a significant improvement to the tactical aspect of the game. Playing pragmatic, designing specific in-game strategies, instructing the players to move and behave in a certain way relative to their teammates. Not long ago I made a post on the tactics forum asking if it's possible to tell one FB to stay inside while the other overlaps and vice-versa, but I've given up since it's very binary: either you tell them to overlap or stay inside, you can't tell them "do the opposite of what the player on the other wing is doing". This is but a single example.
• Playing pragmatic or defensive football is just giving yourself a handicap. Why would I purposefully use a sub-optimal strategy in a sports game where the entire purpose is to win. Catenaccio tactical style is "you lose" button, that's it. Should have no place in the game if it straight up does not work.
• It is really, really deflating when you spend dozens of hours crafting a tactic that (you think) perfectly suits your team and your personal tactical style, watching hours of youtube content and for 78th time reading the tactical forums here, only for it to be completely outperformed by a default gegenpress tactic over the course of the season. And yeah, I tested it. Took a low league team, spent more than 4 hours coming up with a tactic then simulated the season. As a 'control group' test I simulated the same team with a default gegenpress. Guess which one was better? Of course it was the gegenpress. And it's not like I'm bad at the game, yeah I'm no BTN or RDF, but I'm not an incompetent imbecile either, I have actual coaching badges for ****'s sake.
  All those fancy approaches of compressing space, trying to bait the teams into press, playing a mid-block, is nothing more than placebo that sometimes works, sometimes it doesn't.
  Even the 'OP gegenpress' is suffering from poor implementation of the pressing system, as someone earlier in the thread pointed out. I'm still not sure how to actually get the team to press as a unit, no real way to set up zonal pressing. Like how do I tell my team to compress the space the opposition plays in instead of individually running at opposition players? How do I tell them which specific passing lanes to block?

All in all, yeah it's only a game, not an accurate representation of real life football. But is it really the best SI can do after 20 years of iterations?

I work in the game industry myself and one my favourite takes from a game designer was: "Iteration without innovation is just a waste of resources". And I firmly believe that's what we have here with FM: small iterations without real innovation. The MVP - minimum viable product.

[renato.]

5 hours ago, BuryBlade said:

The fundamental issue for me isn’t ‘why is the fix taking so long’, but ‘does nobody in SI studios play or test the game at any point before release?’

I can’t for a second believe that all of the issues with FM24, most of which are apparent within a couple of hours of playing, were missed by everybody.

Either nobody is testing the game, or everyone is a ‘yes-man’ (parroting Miles’ Twitter approach) because apparently this is the most polished version ever! 

Maybe they tested and thought that the game were good to go? And this would be the worst perspective in my point of view.

[BuryBlade]

3 minutes ago, renato. said:

Maybe they tested and thought that the game were good to go? And this would be the worst perspective in my point of view.

Well yes, this would be even worse! 

[craiigman]

5 hours ago, Sport Lacost said:

I have to say I agree with alot of this and have felt similar over the past few years.

The greatest part of FM is the community. It's the fact it was this niche game that spawned so many wonderkids over the years. It's the fact we all have romantic stories of weird and wonderful clubs we fell in love with because of FM. 

But we didn't fall in love with them all because FM was great, it was because of our imagination. FM was simply the tool that enabled us to do so, and that tool has become poorer and poorer over the years. I genuinely believe, that even with a lack of competition, the FM series would have massively died out years ago had it not been for the community.

When you take the community and uniqueness of that out of it and judge it purely as a game, and not some romantic notion, it really is quite poor compared to other modern games on the market.

You've hit the nail on the head there. Unfortunately it seems the game is going in a direction opposite to the community, and more to the casual/FIFA players. Going to be very interesting to see what FM25 is like and who it's trying to cater towards. The only saving grace for SI is the sorry state of ALL sports games. There was a time when FM was the alternative, the saviour of the sports games, now (the past few years really) it just feels like another yearly sports game that divides the community.

Also really wish the big review sites would actually review the game properly, it's always the same drivel, pointless reviews.

edit: then again I've just seen FM24 has hit 4m sales in 17 days (which is a record from what I can tell on Miles' twitter), so as far as sales go, this way of development clearly works.

Edited November 24, 2023 by craiigman

[stopazricky]

5 ore fa, Fr0ufrou ha scritto:

I very much like the FM series because it's unique and it's the only game in this niche, I also love football but seriously this game has no respect for us or our time. It's like a big brother that gives you the second controller and promises you are doing something.

Most of the systems in the game straight up do not work, we all think they do so we are having fun nonetheless but we are just roleplaying. We are imagining playing our great link up attacker as a false 9 works well and is some Pep genius while he would in fact score as many assists in any other attacking role. He would overall perfom better, both as a creator and a scorer as an advanced forward with the "take more risks" instruction. We might think it does, because it makes sense and it should, but the truth is it doesn't. There are litteral millions of FM-Arena simulated matches that point to this same exact conclusion every new game and every patch.

Most of the attributes are broken. Every year, someone over there tests the attributes and finds out half of them are useless in this game engine's iteration. Who could have guessed tackling and marking are useless attributes for central defenders? No I'm not pulling your leg this is the actual state of the game, test it for yourself and see.

Training is a scam. After watching evidence based football manager's training videos, I felt really defeated. All this time spent planning training for the month amounted to nothing, it was all a useless joke. In fact it was often even worse than doing nothing at all: I was replacing general training with specialized training which is straight up worse in every way. It was all some busywork to make me feel like I was in control. It did nothing for player progression and it didn't have any influence on the matches. This kind of gamedesign is really cruel, it's akin to candy crush saga and it's really a slap in the face.

When someone on these forums pointed the Devs to the EBFM video "does match preparation raise your chance of winning?" (the answer was no of course). I remember reading the feedback would go upwards, they would investigate and do something about it. Well they did, they simply removed the system in this year's iteration. Oopsie, it was never there, this system was broken but the rest of the game works, promise.

Most roles are completely dumb and are just a strictly inferior version of some other role (check FM arena and test **** for yourself). When it comes to tactics, most of the instructions barely do anything while a few of them do everything. Very high line and press have been broken for half a decade now and it's pretty much the only thing that actually matters if you want to win. Formations are an afterthought, just set your mentality to attack, your high line, 6 or 7 of players on an attack role and enjoy your 5-2 win. There is this elitist mentality that some of us are better at the game than the people who just "download a tactic". Well that's just really ironic because in their own way the people downloading tactics were right all along. Tinkering with support roles based on real life football is indeed a waste of time. Of course it's fun, and thats the important thing, but we are just roleplaying and making our own fun. The game itself does nothing for you.

Staff is useless, loan managers, technical directors, data scientists ("wow he is very good at analyzing data, that must be super helpful for a data scientist!") even coach star ratings barely amount to anything. It's all mindless excel busywork, a fantasy about making your numbers go up. The simulation itself might be even more shallow than cookie clicker.

Here's what some of you are going to tell me: "Don't use the broken stuff, make your own fun, play the game in a way that's fun for you etc.". Well yeah, I kind of tried that, I could maybe roleplay a smaller side with a defensive tactic and fight to avoid relegation. That might be fun until I face Liverpool or United playing attacking gegenpress. This is a sports game, the goal is to win, why would anyone purposely avoid using a good strategy in order to have fun? First do not use high line, then don't use attacking mentality, then don't use Attack Wingbacks (yes fullbacks are very much a scam by the way), then don't use low crosses. Congratulations, you are now losing games, you are getting the real manager experience, come back next year to buy our next 60$ database upgrade.

The worst part is that this **** has been broken for years and that SI, on top of not fixing it are just adding more busywork on top. Player agents are still as shallow but you have to go through an additional useless dialogue now. They added Club Vision so that your board can enforce the same stupid arbitrary requirements every time you play (preferred: make the most of set-pieces) ".

Now I know some of you are hardcore FM fans that are going to deny that the stats provided by FM-Arena users and the Evidence based Football Manager youtube channel are true. "These people don't know how to do proper data science and their evidence is flawed :nerdface-emoji:".

Well yes, those are amateurs that play the game like you and me, not actual data-scientists. They poured hundreds of hours in testing the game, if you were intellectually honest and actually watched their evidence and methdology, you would realize they are most definitely right about the stuff they find out, it's all so painfully obvious.

The reason the game never truly explains its mechanics is that they do not work. Every single piece of evidence points to that. I don't get that some of you hardcore fans are defending it over and over again. There is this ridiculous fan culture here and on reddit defending the game tooth and nail. Just stop silencing us, help us call out the ******** and give actual feedback. Help us make the game better instead of defending every bad practice. Football Manager could be a great game but it is not, help us complain and get the devs working on the right stuff.

I am not trying to ruin your fun, playing FM can be incredibly fun, even in its poor state. It's a great roleplaying tool in a big sandbox simulated world which is the best kind of game. But the reason the game is good is ourselves, we are creating our own fun. The game itself is just helping. And it could definitely help a lot better than it currently does.

I'm going to go as far as quoting @Jack Joyce into this conversation. A growing portion of players feels more and more like virtually all the mechanics of the games are placebo. Through the work of Evidence Based Football Manager, this is being put to test in a scientific manner and increasingly proven to be true.

I would love to hear official feedback from SI about it. Not necessarily here, not necessarily now, but I believe they simply can't afford to ignore this - from a moral perspective, not monetary, of course.

If there's ONE thing I wish we'll get with Unity-based FM is precisely this - the game actually behaving the way it's supposed to, and the way it says it does. A glaring example is training penalties, which... should improve penalties. How quickly? How much? At what age? I don't know, but it should do something, something at all.

[Omen064]

Does anyone else feel like xG has become meaningless in FM24? I regularly get over 1.5-2.0 xG but don't score. Meanwhile the opposition cruises a 2-0 lead with a 0.46 xG. I can forgive the odd game, but this is virtually every match. Oh, and most of those xG goals are the 30-yard screamers, btw. You know the ones I'm talking about - the chances my players balloon over the bar at regular intervals.

[sthptngomad76]

6 hours ago, Fr0ufrou said:

I very much like the FM series because it's unique and it's the only game in this niche, I also love football but seriously this game has no respect for us or our time. It's like a big brother that gives you the second controller and promises you are doing something.

Most of the systems in the game straight up do not work, we all think they do so we are having fun nonetheless but we are just roleplaying. We are imagining playing our great link up attacker as a false 9 works well and is some Pep genius while he would in fact score as many assists in any other attacking role. He would overall perfom better, both as a creator and a scorer as an advanced forward with the "take more risks" instruction. We might think it does, because it makes sense and it should, but the truth is it doesn't. There are litteral millions of FM-Arena simulated matches that point to this same exact conclusion every new game and every patch.

Most of the attributes are broken. Every year, someone over there tests the attributes and finds out half of them are useless in this game engine's iteration. Who could have guessed tackling and marking are useless attributes for central defenders? No I'm not pulling your leg this is the actual state of the game, test it for yourself and see.

Training is a scam. After watching evidence based football manager's training videos, I felt really defeated. All this time spent planning training for the month amounted to nothing, it was all a useless joke. In fact it was often even worse than doing nothing at all: I was replacing general training with specialized training which is straight up worse in every way. It was all some busywork to make me feel like I was in control. It did nothing for player progression and it didn't have any influence on the matches. This kind of gamedesign is really cruel, it's akin to candy crush saga and it's really a slap in the face.

When someone on these forums pointed the Devs to the EBFM video "does match preparation raise your chance of winning?" (the answer was no of course). I remember reading the feedback would go upwards, they would investigate and do something about it. Well they did, they simply removed the system in this year's iteration. Oopsie, it was never there, this system was broken but the rest of the game works, promise.

Most roles are completely dumb and are just a strictly inferior version of some other role (check FM arena and test **** for yourself). When it comes to tactics, most of the instructions barely do anything while a few of them do everything. Very high line and press have been broken for half a decade now and it's pretty much the only thing that actually matters if you want to win. Formations are an afterthought, just set your mentality to attack, your high line, 6 or 7 of players on an attack role and enjoy your 5-2 win. There is this elitist mentality that some of us are better at the game than the people who just "download a tactic". Well that's just really ironic because in their own way the people downloading tactics were right all along. Tinkering with support roles based on real life football is indeed a waste of time. Of course it's fun, and thats the important thing, but we are just roleplaying and making our own fun. The game itself does nothing for you.

Staff is useless, loan managers, technical directors, data scientists ("wow he is very good at analyzing data, that must be super helpful for a data scientist!") even coach star ratings barely amount to anything. It's all mindless excel busywork, a fantasy about making your numbers go up. The simulation itself might be even more shallow than cookie clicker.

Here's what some of you are going to tell me: "Don't use the broken stuff, make your own fun, play the game in a way that's fun for you etc.". Well yeah, I kind of tried that, I could maybe roleplay a smaller side with a defensive tactic and fight to avoid relegation. That might be fun until I face Liverpool or United playing attacking gegenpress. This is a sports game, the goal is to win, why would anyone purposely avoid using a good strategy in order to have fun? First do not use high line, then don't use attacking mentality, then don't use Attack Wingbacks (yes fullbacks are very much a scam by the way), then don't use low crosses. Congratulations, you are now losing games, you are getting the real manager experience, come back next year to buy our next 60$ database upgrade.

The worst part is that this **** has been broken for years and that SI, on top of not fixing it are just adding more busywork on top. Player agents are still as shallow but you have to go through an additional useless dialogue now. They added Club Vision so that your board can enforce the same stupid arbitrary requirements every time you play (preferred: make the most of set-pieces) ".

Now I know some of you are hardcore FM fans that are going to deny that the stats provided by FM-Arena users and the Evidence based Football Manager youtube channel are true. "These people don't know how to do proper data science and their evidence is flawed :nerdface-emoji:".

Well yes, those are amateurs that play the game like you and me, not actual data-scientists. They poured hundreds of hours in testing the game, if you were intellectually honest and actually watched their evidence and methdology, you would realize they are most definitely right about the stuff they find out, it's all so painfully obvious.

The reason the game never truly explains its mechanics is that they do not work. Every single piece of evidence points to that. I don't get that some of you hardcore fans are defending it over and over again. There is this ridiculous fan culture here and on reddit defending the game tooth and nail. Just stop silencing us, help us call out the ******** and give actual feedback. Help us make the game better instead of defending every bad practice. Football Manager could be a great game but it is not, help us complain and get the devs working on the right stuff.

I am not trying to ruin your fun, playing FM can be incredibly fun, even in its poor state. It's a great roleplaying tool in a big sandbox simulated world which is the best kind of game. But the reason the game is good is ourselves, we are creating our own fun. The game itself is just helping. And it could definitely help a lot better than it currently does.

Agree 100%. Excellent post 

[themadsheep2001]

50 minutes ago, craiigman said:

You've hit the nail on the head there. Unfortunately it seems the game is going in a direction opposite to the community, and more to the casual/FIFA players. Going to be very interesting to see what FM25 is like and who it's trying to cater towards. The only saving grace for SI is the sorry state of ALL sports games. There was a time when FM was the alternative, the saviour of the sports games, now (the past few years really) it just feels like another yearly sports game that divides the community.

Also really wish the big review sites would actually review the game properly, it's always the same drivel, pointless reviews.

edit: then again I've just seen FM24 has hit 4m sales in 17 days (which is a record from what I can tell on Miles' twitter), so as far as sales go, this way of development clearly works.

A conversation I and @RDF Tactics and i had previously, but perhaps a good time for some on here to realise the community goes beyond here and beyond "hardcore users" and start realising that so called "casuals" are also part of the game base and their views/experience matter just as much as anyone should. 

[craiigman]

15 minutes ago, themadsheep2001 said:

A conversation I and @RDF Tactics and i had previously, but perhaps a good time for some on here to realise the community goes beyond here and beyond "hardcore users" and start realising that so called "casuals" are also part of the game base and their views/experience matter just as much as anyone should. 

I completely agree with the sentiment, and going after the casual players is far better for business (clearly as well). And while their opinions do and should matter, where are they sharing their views/experiences?

[craiigman]

1 hour ago, stopazricky said:

I'm going to go as far as quoting @Jack Joyce into this conversation. A growing portion of players feels more and more like virtually all the mechanics of the games are placebo. Through the work of Evidence Based Football Manager, this is being put to test in a scientific manner and increasingly proven to be true.

I would love to hear official feedback from SI about it. Not necessarily here, not necessarily now, but I believe they simply can't afford to ignore this - from a moral perspective, not monetary, of course.

If there's ONE thing I wish we'll get with Unity-based FM is precisely this - the game actually behaving the way it's supposed to, and the way it says it does. A glaring example is training penalties, which... should improve penalties. How quickly? How much? At what age? I don't know, but it should do something, something at all.

This is a tricky one, as while I’m not and won’t discredit any of the testing done on the game. You also simply can’t say “do XYZ and get result” in a football simulation game. Because then it’s not an attempt at a realistic simulation. There is no “sure thing” in football.

That makes coding and developing a game to try and replicate that uncertainty difficult. I personally believe that the ME has become so bloated and has so much technical debt that it probably is a case of things being held together with duck tape than any malicious attempt at misinforming the player on how the game works. Hence why we are always told simple fixes aren’t always simple as they have knock on effects to other things.

We probably are at a stage where somethings aren’t doing exactly what they should be doing. But again if the game becomes completely about min maxing and numbers, it’s not truly a representation of football.

Now saying all of that, I would rather have a game that is first and foremost a game. Which contradicts most of what I just said to some extent. But that’s just my opinion on why these tests get the results they do.

[themadsheep2001]

1 hour ago, craiigman said:

I completely agree with the sentiment, and going after the casual players is far better for business (clearly as well). And while their opinions do and should matter, where are they sharing their views/experiences?

Twitter, surveys, focus groups, meta critic, steam etc, you name it This forum is a tiny subset and one of many places SI get views and experiences from. 

[SaintEtienne]

8 hours ago, Fr0ufrou said:

I very much like the FM series because it's unique and it's the only game in this niche, I also love football but seriously this game has no respect for us or our time. It's like a big brother that gives you the second controller and promises you are doing something.

Most of the systems in the game straight up do not work, we all think they do so we are having fun nonetheless but we are just roleplaying. We are imagining playing our great link up attacker as a false 9 works well and is some Pep genius while he would in fact score as many assists in any other attacking role. He would overall perfom better, both as a creator and a scorer as an advanced forward with the "take more risks" instruction. We might think it does, because it makes sense and it should, but the truth is it doesn't. There are litteral millions of FM-Arena simulated matches that point to this same exact conclusion every new game and every patch.

Most of the attributes are broken. Every year, someone over there tests the attributes and finds out half of them are useless in this game engine's iteration. Who could have guessed tackling and marking are useless attributes for central defenders? No I'm not pulling your leg this is the actual state of the game, test it for yourself and see.

Training is a scam. After watching evidence based football manager's training videos, I felt really defeated. All this time spent planning training for the month amounted to nothing, it was all a useless joke. In fact it was often even worse than doing nothing at all: I was replacing general training with specialized training which is straight up worse in every way. It was all some busywork to make me feel like I was in control. It did nothing for player progression and it didn't have any influence on the matches. This kind of gamedesign is really cruel, it's akin to candy crush saga and it's really a slap in the face.

When someone on these forums pointed the Devs to the EBFM video "does match preparation raise your chance of winning?" (the answer was no of course). I remember reading the feedback would go upwards, they would investigate and do something about it. Well they did, they simply removed the system in this year's iteration. Oopsie, it was never there, this system was broken but the rest of the game works, promise.

Most roles are completely dumb and are just a strictly inferior version of some other role (check FM arena and test **** for yourself). When it comes to tactics, most of the instructions barely do anything while a few of them do everything. Very high line and press have been broken for half a decade now and it's pretty much the only thing that actually matters if you want to win. Formations are an afterthought, just set your mentality to attack, your high line, 6 or 7 of players on an attack role and enjoy your 5-2 win. There is this elitist mentality that some of us are better at the game than the people who just "download a tactic". Well that's just really ironic because in their own way the people downloading tactics were right all along. Tinkering with support roles based on real life football is indeed a waste of time. Of course it's fun, and thats the important thing, but we are just roleplaying and making our own fun. The game itself does nothing for you.

Staff is useless, loan managers, technical directors, data scientists ("wow he is very good at analyzing data, that must be super helpful for a data scientist!") even coach star ratings barely amount to anything. It's all mindless excel busywork, a fantasy about making your numbers go up. The simulation itself might be even more shallow than cookie clicker.

Here's what some of you are going to tell me: "Don't use the broken stuff, make your own fun, play the game in a way that's fun for you etc.". Well yeah, I kind of tried that, I could maybe roleplay a smaller side with a defensive tactic and fight to avoid relegation. That might be fun until I face Liverpool or United playing attacking gegenpress. This is a sports game, the goal is to win, why would anyone purposely avoid using a good strategy in order to have fun? First do not use high line, then don't use attacking mentality, then don't use Attack Wingbacks (yes fullbacks are very much a scam by the way), then don't use low crosses. Congratulations, you are now losing games, you are getting the real manager experience, come back next year to buy our next 60$ database upgrade.

The worst part is that this **** has been broken for years and that SI, on top of not fixing it are just adding more busywork on top. Player agents are still as shallow but you have to go through an additional useless dialogue now. They added Club Vision so that your board can enforce the same stupid arbitrary requirements every time you play (preferred: make the most of set-pieces) ".

Now I know some of you are hardcore FM fans that are going to deny that the stats provided by FM-Arena users and the Evidence based Football Manager youtube channel are true. "These people don't know how to do proper data science and their evidence is flawed :nerdface-emoji:".

Well yes, those are amateurs that play the game like you and me, not actual data-scientists. They poured hundreds of hours in testing the game, if you were intellectually honest and actually watched their evidence and methdology, you would realize they are most definitely right about the stuff they find out, it's all so painfully obvious.

The reason the game never truly explains its mechanics is that they do not work. Every single piece of evidence points to that. I don't get that some of you hardcore fans are defending it over and over again. There is this ridiculous fan culture here and on reddit defending the game tooth and nail. Just stop silencing us, help us call out the ******** and give actual feedback. Help us make the game better instead of defending every bad practice. Football Manager could be a great game but it is not, help us complain and get the devs working on the right stuff.

I am not trying to ruin your fun, playing FM can be incredibly fun, even in its poor state. It's a great roleplaying tool in a big sandbox simulated world which is the best kind of game. But the reason the game is good is ourselves, we are creating our own fun. The game itself is just helping. And it could definitely help a lot better than it currently does.

I agree with pretty much all of this.

I began my current save back in January. Shortly after, I watched the EBFM videos and they contributed to killing my interest in the game for months. They brought home how cheated I feel about so many aspects of FM. As you say, the game presents the player with the illusion of control and a variety of strategic approaches. But that’s all it is: an illusion.

In the case of training, there appears to be a rich menu of options for the player to design any number of schedules that will develop the players, prepare for matches, sharpen tactical styles, etc. So, I would spend quite a lot of time putting together schedules according to what I wanted to achieve tactically, and according to how I wanted to balance development, tactics and match preparation. But EBFM quite convincingly shows that it’s all a waste of time: most of the training options have little to no effect. Even worse, EBFM worked out the best training schedule, and it’s one that IRL would be awful, but in the game it’s optimal.

And there’s so much more. EBFM tested the step up/drop off options, and his analysis suggested they do absolutely nothing. They seem to be two buttons that give the illusion of managerial control, but in reality make not an iota of difference.

Too much of the game falls into one of two categories. First, there are things that suggest they might do something, but instead do nothing, like many of the training options or some of the tactical options.

Second, there are things where a range of options is presented to the player, but only ONE of them actually works. Interactions mostly work like that: the game might present a range of options when dealing with, say, a team talk, but one soon learns that the only way to get a good outcome is to click on one particular option, knowing all the others will have bad outcomes. Shouts are the same: most don’t work; of those that do, it just becomes a case of clicking the right button at the right time to get the same reward (like a lab rat) – scores level after 15 minutes, click Encourage to give your players a morale boost. Too many of the interactions and options just involve basic trial and error to know which button to click to get the desired outcome.

While I do praise the ME, and I can see how my tactical decisions impact the game I am watching (and how much fun it can be), I also know that most of my tactical choices are suboptimal. It really shouldn’t be like that: the game should be much richer in offering players a range of tactical and strategic choices, the success or failure of which will depend on context, players, and situation. But right now, it appears that gegenpress just works no matter what, that catenaccio is just suicide, and so on.

When I think too deeply about what I am doing, and the time I spend putting together tactics, designing training schedules, building my relationship with the media, interacting with players, etc., I realise how pointless (and often unwittingly self-defeating and suboptimal) all this is. And then I do feel a bit cheated by the game.

Now, when I abandoned FM23 for a few months, I turned instead to The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild. Of course, the two games cannot easily be compared… But, wow, the contrast. The open world of Zelda allowed so much variety in gameplay. There were hardly any situations or problems that allowed only one solution. It allowed for imaginative problem-solving. It is a game that can be played in so many different ways: cautiously, recklessly, sneakily, boldly, etc.

And that’s what I long for from FM (but which it hasn’t delivered for years): a game that is not about figuring out the single optimal approach to success, but one that rewards any number of imaginative and strategic approaches. Until then, I try not to think too much about the poor mechanics of the game, I’ll carry on blithely ignoring how much of the game is indeed a Potemkin village, and I’ll console myself that at least I am creating a possibly interesting story and having (what I think is) fun along the way.

Or I’ll feel so cheated by the illusion of control that I’ll put FM24 aside and start The Legend of Zelda: Tears of the Kingdom…

[NoobGoneBad]

Building a nation has grown to be a special gamemode for lots of people. But there is insane bug. I bought a wonderkid midfield mezzala. He is 21 years old now and world beater. CA 163 and PA 177. Bro scored 17 goals and added 14 assists. Lots of clubs were interested and he asked out right before the season ended in Sweden. ( year 2026 ). So he came to me to ask out of the club. He asked to be sold if offer of 115 million pounds came in. His hidden value was something like 97 million pounds. And then season ended and new started and his hidden and transfer value dropped to 1,5 million pounds :D:D:D:D. Building a nation in sweden is ********. Currently Sweden is 16th league, but it was issue last FM also, So I am guessing they haven't even tried to fix it. If the problem was league reputation, then it would not even rise to 115 million in one season. The problem/bug is that the values drop/reset every freaking season. 

[StephenG]

1 hour ago, themadsheep2001 said:

Twitter, surveys, focus groups, meta critic, steam etc, you name it This forum is a tiny subset and one of many places SI get views and experiences from. 

Have any of them reported any of the bugs raised here? Like the too many set piece goals, the AI not subbing etc..? or are they just happy to plug and play a tactic and win every game and competition they play? How many hours do they play? Will they still be playing the game in Feb/March like all of us here? Is their feedback getting better or worse the longer they play?

The mindset/experience of the different subsets is very different and just because the hardcore old-time players are only a "tiny subset" it does not mean that SI cannot cater for both. FIFA etc have always allowed players to change difficulty levels so that when you're winning too easily you can make the AI smarter.

Looking forward to the December update - hope we won't be disappointed.

[FM Addick]

I’ve enjoyed FM24 in many ways. The ability to be more flexible in tactics with inverted full backs. The ME is the best yet and you can clearly see some instructions being implemented. 

 

 

But I’m close to giving up. The game is way too easy. I’m not here for the excuses for it, that I’m just a good experienced player. That’s just not good enough. The AI should be reacting  to me on a game by game basis. But it doesn’t. I’ve found a tactic that works and nobody can beat it. I can win the PL with meh PL sides. Or get back to back promotions with awful squads. I’ve purposely stayed away from 4341 high press. 

 

The game should be a challenge. Sadly the biggest challenge is making sure squad fillers aren’t annoyed for not being named in a CL squad 

[chris72]

I'm not going to be playing this game until improvement has been made to the match engine

 

the away games are very difficult, players really don't listen to instructions that well, 

I constantly see "waiting for next highlight to load" in some of the games which is very frustrating 

 

I  can be in control of the game getting shots on target but still lose pretty badly which can happen in real life but not that often especially if u don't have a rubbish defence

 

It's very frustrating to arrange friendlies with teams that you want to choose,  most teams are busy

so many injuries, some of these press conferences just do my head in and it's not easy to sell players because no one wants to buy them

 

whenever my players get a shot on goal the opposition goalkeeper no matter who it is turns into prime manuel neuer or I score then it goes to VAR and its a definite offside 

 

I like a challenge but this game is way too 1 sided 

[jcw163]

Appreciate this is probably dealt with on here somewhere but it's a fifty page thread so just a quick question:-

Any timeline for anything to fix the absurd team morale stuff? I've just had a complete dressing room meltdown over not letting a lad go on loan who had not yet asked me if he could go on loan (he is also unhappy he is not on loan, this has never come up before). It's all pretty silly.

[Mush1983]

23 minutes ago, jcw163 said:

Appreciate this is probably dealt with on here somewhere but it's a fifty page thread so just a quick question:-

Any timeline for anything to fix the absurd team morale stuff? I've just had a complete dressing room meltdown over not letting a lad go on loan who had not yet asked me if he could go on loan (he is also unhappy he is not on loan, this has never come up before). It's all pretty silly.

https://community.sigames.com/forums/topic/580184-fm24-content-update-early-december/

 

[jcw163]

13 minutes ago, Mush1983 said:

https://community.sigames.com/forums/topic/580184-fm24-content-update-early-december/

 

Thank you, love how vague this update is

[Omen064]

I hope they also fix that 'bug' where the corner taker will get the ball played back to them and is *always* offside. Ruins the game for me.

I've got nearly 70 hours into the game now and it's the same stuff that's really breaking my immersion and switching me off. A lot of it listed above. The game has simply decided I'm not allowed to win with the number of penalties I concede, stupid last minute equalisers, all players from the same position getting injured, getting battered by the team bottom of the league, etc. It's way worse in FM24 than it was in previous versions. Much more pronounced, for sure.

[lightworker]

Reality imitates FM, PSG wins 5-2 and Tuchel makes no substitutions vs koln 

Edited November 25, 2023 by lightworker

[cherryman71]

The love letter that was actually a **** you, but give us your money, next year we''ll sort it out.

[Cloud9]

Fm24 is a fantastic edition to the series, but Rodrigo De Paul still has strength 12 which really hurts my brain.

[bobbyb12345]

Lots of interesting points, especially in the past couple of pages. Update sounds interesting (at least it feels like nerfed morale and other small things can be toned down etc) 

 

Is gegenpressing being overpowered considered an actual bug though? Is there anything in the pipeline about trying to "balance" this? This game and the past 4-5 feel pretty pointless otherwise. 

 

Talk about "casual" users is very much valid, but for the most part those seem to have what they want: a game where if you put the time in success is almost inevitable. Any chance of giving those who want more of a challenge / simulation something as well? 

[themadsheep2001]

10 hours ago, StephenG said:

Have any of them reported any of the bugs raised here? Like the too many set piece goals, the AI not subbing etc..? or are they just happy to plug and play a tactic and win every game and competition they play? How many hours do they play? Will they still be playing the game in Feb/March like all of us here? Is their feedback getting better or worse the longer they play?

The mindset/experience of the different subsets is very different and just because the hardcore old-time players are only a "tiny subset" it does not mean that SI cannot cater for both. FIFA etc have always allowed players to change difficulty levels so that when you're winning too easily you can make the AI smarter.

Looking forward to the December update - hope we won't be disappointed.

Yes they will be playing the game in feb/March. Those numbers are really easy for SI to track. There's real tendency from some on this forum to act like they don't matter, or dont matter as much. On an SI level they do, and on a personal level, i really dont like this level of gatekeeping that goes on. There's a large subset of players who will plow tonnes hours in but never touch a forum. They can and will try and cater everyone, but its not the so called casuals that need reminding of that in my opinion, its some of the posters on here. 

[BJT]

Without trying to be too negative here (the idea of the new set piece creator is great but the execution is imo very poor at this time, especially on the defensive side), we know there are less options (such as throw ins), but other areas that I find very frustrating:

1- With zonal marking, not being able to have the option to position players specifically within the far left and far right zones due to everything solely attribute based with the considered importance of the zone (I would like my fullbacks able to be assigned on each side to enable them to effectively close down if the opponents take a short corner.

At the moment, they will switch sides due to how the lists of assigned players functions, so for example the right back would end up being on the left when they shouldn't be based on which side the corner is taken from)

2- Not being able to specifically mark any dangerous threats in the box on set plays

3- Most importantly, there is no way to defend a team that chooses to leave 3 up top when defending their own corners. At the moment, you can only keep 2 players back 100% of the time, with the 3rd only available "Stay back If needed ".

Therefore, when trying to see out a game I've no way to cover the extra numbers they put forward effectively. So this means whenever they clear a corner, the opponents are always having 3 vs 2 counter-attack situations - and at the moment there isn't a single thing I can do about it.

In those scenarios, I believe you should  have the option to keep 4 at the back 100% of the time, and at the very bare minimum 3. I think this is a very major flaw and it must be fixed. Not having any ability whatsoever to defend effectively when a team decides to leave 3 up top in the counter, well I'm sure you can imagine it leaves me irate when such situations occur, because there is nothing I can do to stop it.

Can this please be urgently fixed for the next patch.

Edited November 25, 2023 by BJT

[Wizard boy]

Most definitely scores need adjusting. I’ve just had a 7-4 thankfully in my favour but also won 6-5 although I was 6-2 so that was a nervy last few mins. Plenty of other games from AI with similar scores Also goalkeepers seem to be useless. If it’s a one on one I already know it’s in before player even kicks ball. Also sometimes i can make 5 subs other times only 3 in the league matches.

Edited November 25, 2023 by Wizard boy

[IanM110]

41 minutes ago, Wizard boy said:

Also sometimes i can make 5 subs other times only 3 in the league matches.

That's not a bug, you have to make your 5 subs in 3 sub windows... ie 221 or 113 etc (or half time)

Edited November 25, 2023 by IanM110

[StephenG]

Semi final of the champions league. Conceded 3 goals from one-two attacking throw-ins (only highlights of the opposition in the entire second leg). still somehow managed to win 5-3 and overturn the 2-1 loss in the first leg. SI PLEASE fix the throw-ins it is ridiculous!!!

Edited November 25, 2023 by StephenG

[Kevinho7]

All simmed with a preset 4231 Gegenpress...
1st in the league



All simmed with a preset 433 Control Possession...
6th in the league



How does Gegenpress still feel like a pay to win tactic after so many years?

[fc.cadoni]

1 minute ago, Kevinho7 said:

All simmed with a preset 4231 Gegenpress...
1st in the league



All simmed with a preset 433 Control Possession...
6th in the league



How does Gegenpress still feel like a pay to win tactic after so many years?

Tall, fast, excellent stamina and smart is dominating football, right? The era with short and technical players passing the ball around and around is past decade I am afraid. 

[priority76]

12 minutes ago, Kevinho7 said:

All simmed with a preset 4231 Gegenpress...

For a tactic which is supposedly undefeatable with any team.  Losing to excelsior with ajax is pretty funny.

[dℍaisa]

19 minutes ago, fc.cadoni said:

Tall, fast, excellent stamina and smart is dominating football, right? The era with short and technical players passing the ball around and around is past decade I am afraid. 

Exactly, in the past decade the hidden chip inside human brains has received a Firmware update that now responds to and works well always & only with high tempo, running all the time and 'intelligent' football, so obvious brrr.... 

Edited November 25, 2023 by dℍaisa

[fc.cadoni]

1 hour ago, dℍaisa said:

Exactly, in the past decade the hidden chip inside human brains has received a Firmware update that now responds to and works well always & only with high tempo, running all the time and 'intelligent' football, so obvious brrr.... 

That's correct. Humans has been received a firmware update and now playing high tempo, running all time and being "intelligent". Let's be serious. 

[Dadecane]

Gengen press is the most dominant tactic in world football IRL today. The game properly reflects that. My only (minor) issue would be that it should not work as well with just any talent, or small clubs. But still one could argue its still the tactic most teams are finding success with IRL, big league or little league. 

[SaintEtienne]

58 minutes ago, Dadecane said:

Gengen press is the most dominant tactic in world football IRL today. The game properly reflects that. My only (minor) issue would be that it should not work as well with just any talent, or small clubs. But still one could argue its still the tactic most teams are finding success with IRL, big league or little league. 

To a certain extent, I agree. Gegenpress is rightly a popular tactic, because when it is done well (e.g., by Klopp’s sides) it is a scarily good tactic. But I think the issue you mention is major rather than minor.

Gegenpress is a highly risky tactic. It requires superb physical and mental abilities for it to work well, as well as supreme team cohesion and organisation. When it is built on those things, it can be awesome. But when it goes wrong (when the players are suboptimal for it, or when the team has not been drilled to execute it properly), it can be disastrous.

The problem in FM is that this risk is just not reflected. In FM, gegenpress is simply a highly effective tactic no matter what. I’ve seen it in my own games. I’ve built fairly successful non-gegenpress tactics, but sometimes when my team is struggling I can just switch to gegenpress and results turn my way. Back on FM22, I built a nice midblock, possession-based tactic without too much pressing and, thanks to having a great squad, was highly successful. But even then, there were many matches in which we’d been thoroughly dominated in the first half, so at half-time I’d push the lines up, set pressing to maximum and watch as we played like a prime Klopp side in the second half. It’s almost like a cheat code.

The other issue with gegenpress IRL is that it is very difficult to sustain success over long periods of time: the mental and physical demands of the tactic take their toll (often in the second half of a season, and often too in subsequent seasons). And the extremely high levels of teamwork mean that losing even one or two players (to injury, to poor form) can play havoc with it. This is one reason why I rarely base my tactics around it. But again, this does not seem to be reflected in FM.

(As an aside, this is another area where the game does not seem to work in the way it says it does. Preseason advice is to hugely increase fatigue levels, because this will make players better able to cope with fatigue later in the season. But I see no evidence at all in the game that this works as stated. Fatigue is managed very simplistically.)

My final issue with gegenpress in the game is that it does not reflect how RL sides execute it. No side can press intensely for 90 minutes. Part of the difficulty in setting up gegenpress is drilling players to manage a match: knowing when to ease off to catch breath, knowing when to press ferociously, and so on. But in FM, it seems that gegenpress just means your players hare around pressing intensely from kick off to final whistle.

Gegenpress is a tactic that should require weeks, months, perhaps even a few seasons to get consistently right. It should require very careful squad building to get the right players for such a high-risk-high-reward set up. It should require extensive training ground preparation and match experience over a long period of time to get it working consistently well. But in FM, gegenpress is too simply implemented: it seems that any side, no matter the standard or abilities of the players, can get good results from it almost instantly. In other words, FM reflects the rewards of gegenpress, but very few of the risks.

[Daveincid]

vor 3 Stunden schrieb Kevinho7:

All simmed with a preset 4231 Gegenpress...
1st in the league



All simmed with a preset 433 Control Possession...
6th in the league



How does Gegenpress still feel like a pay to win tactic after so many years?

4231 gegepress + injury mod. 3rd, 11 points behind Feyenoord, struggling during english weeks.

 

End of the season: Well....i can't say because I was being sacked in March 24. 


Gegepress-tactics are getting way too less punishement (-> not enough injuries). So SI can't please everyone. At least with my injuries-mod, you won't fly through holiday-mode winning everything  

[Hoffbeck]

I am going back to fm23.

 

I feel like every match is the same:

- Goals are always a result of set pieces.

- The amount og heavy touches and bad decision are to great

- Wingers are useless, and looses the ball

- 2. ball from defensive headers are never won by the defending team, and the structural aftermath after the headers leads to so many goals

- No one runs in behind the defensiveline of the AI

[Kevinho7]

4 minutes ago, Daveincid said:

4231 gegepress + injury mod. 3rd, 11 points behind Feyenoord, struggling during english weeks.

 

End of the season: Well....i can't say because I was being sacked in March 24. 


Gegepress-tactics are getting way too less punishement (-> not enough injuries). So SI can't please everyone. At least with my injuries-mod, you won't fly through holiday-mode winning everything  

I actually love this reply and your outcome. Seems with your mod there’s actually punishment present for maintaining maxed out intensity tactics

[Daveincid]

Gerade eben schrieb Kevinho7:

I actually love this reply and your outcome. Seems with your mod there’s actually punishment present for maintaining maxed out intensity tactics

That was the goal of it and I'm glad it worked