"The future of football manager" discussion

[phd_angel]

23 hours ago, themadsheep2001 said:

The best thing about this announcement is the lead up time to FM25. Gives plenty of people on lower powered machines fair warning to move on up. 

This is my main current concern, as I'm about to buy a new laptop (mid-tier ROG Strix G17 2023). Will Unity engine require vastly superior specs?...

I'm hopeful but cautiously optimistic about the announcement. I have lost the count of FM press releases announcing "revolutionary new features this year" that turned out to be a flop...

Edited June 29, 2023 by phd_angel

[themadsheep2001]

5 minutes ago, phd_angel said:

This is my main current concern, as I'm about to buy a new laptop (mid-tier ROG Stix G17 2023). Will Unity engine require vastly superior specs?...

I'm hopeful but cautiously optimistic about the announcement. I have lost the count of FM press releases announcing "revolutionary new features this year" that turned out to be a flop...

This will be a crap answer so apologies, but the answer is: it depends on the scope of SI's use. It's a very good question than I'm sure they will try to answer as early as possible. What I would say is when you consider just how low the current specs are, a decent jump is likely

[(sic)]

4 minutes ago, phd_angel said:

This is my main current concern, as I'm about to buy a new laptop (mid-tier ROG Stix G17 2023). Will Unity engine require vastly superior specs?...

I'm hopeful but cautiously optimistic about the announcement. I have lost the count of FM press releases announcing "revolutionary new features this year" that turned out to be a flop...

That laptop really shouldn't have any issues running any modern games though, and I very much doubt FM specs will be on the level of modern AAA titles, even with the engine upgrade.

You'll be fine with that.

 

[Viking]

This way SI is announcing this makes me think Osborne effect. I mean, will people skip FM24 and save their money for the probably better, cooler and sexier FM25?  

Anyway, I'm cautiously excited about the future of this game. I don't care about womens football (chase me down the alley with torches and pitchforks), but I think FM on the Unity platform opens a lot of good doors. Plus, as I've said several times, I think a lot of the current modules need to be scrapped and rebuilt from scratch. 

[trviggo]

Very curious to know if the save transfer is copy pasting people and history into the new game and a future start date or if it's deeper than that, possibly making future patches and releases finally fully save game compatible. It never feels quite right to bring a save from one patch to another and missing out on things.

 

Edited June 29, 2023 by trviggo

[masno]

Unfortunately, a lot of users for FM love to change the database, if that wasn't the case, Geforce now and Xcloud would be  perfect to replace their old setups, cloud is slowly but surely becoming the future for gaming.

[MrManagerMan]

5 hours ago, Carambau said:

So no one is going to buy FM24 as all will be waiting for FM25?

It’s something to play while we wait no?

[stopazricky]

No one here is fully appreciating how big all of this is: the three main points in the blog post are not being talked about.

1) From FM25 on, the game will likely be sold as a service for a monthly fee. They might keep the possibility to buy a 12 month license for £69,99 though, but in any case this is huge news. Part of the reason why they're coming out about it so early is that people will probably get incredibly mad about it once it's properly announced, so they want to dilute it a bit.

My opinion is that it actually provides opportunities to save money to people that play inconsistently, so it's a win-win. The only downside is the "you'll own nothing and be happy" can of worms, one I'm not going to open.

2) Unity DOES allow for FIFA-like graphics. It's an extremely powerful engine that people seem to underestimate.

I've been looking to this very day for years, because no matter what side of the graphics dispute you're on, better graphics mean better understanding of what's happening on the pitch. Even if you're a hardcore "spreadsheet simulator enjoyer", it's still great news. 

Oh, and the animations?!? I've been dreaming so long of an FM game where you could look at Neymar controlling a long pass from a teammate and be like "yep, that's a 20 Technique 20 Flair guy right there", as opposed to his technical gestures looking exactly like a semi pro player's (albeit with different outcomes). Finally, FM25 could be the game where a player simply changing direction while running will look and feel different from one perfectly executing a Ronaldo chop that leaves a sliding defender on the ground. 

All of this isn't even primarily for the looks, folks. This affects all areas of the game - scouting, transfer value assessment, tactics, roles, attribute assessment, and so on.

Finally, but most importantly:
3) This blog post shows passion. The true kind, the "f**k the money" kind. Because FM has no competitors. FM23 - one of the worst FM games ever in terms of improvements over the previous installment - is the best selling by far. And even when Project Dragonfly was started, years ago, the situation wasn't different. As shown by FM23, a worse product doesn't equate to less sales. There is zero reason why they couldn't just cruise down the usual path for decades, like FIFA is doing.

There's only one possible explanation for them to step up their game like this (literally and figuratively): they genuinely like Football Manager. They like it so much that Miles pretty much literally said "FM23 performed unbelievably well but we fully agree that the feature set was atrocious and that our product has been stagnating for years". No EA executive will ever say anything close to that. Heck, Miles literally called FM25 "for the first time in decades, a true sequel". Can you imagine a Ubisoft exec writing to AC fans "Yeah we agree Assassin's Creed has been the same old s**t for a while, however in a couple years we'll completely overhaul the franchise in spite of it already making us tens of millions in net profit"?

Hats off. 

[(sic)]

Just to address some of the false rumors, here's a screenshot taken from reddit, talking about stuff Miles has said on twitter:

 

[HighFlyingDwarf]

10 hours ago, the_hdk said:

On one hand i'm happy with progres. Women Football in FM sounds very exciting and i'm curious how that is going to work.

Finally getting some decent newgen graphics also sounds good. (really hope on AI generated real like faces like the NEWGEN mod)

What i'm a bit afraid of is that they will go the same way some other developers are going (Paradox/Firaxis) where games become more flashy...better graphics etc. but are empty inside. the gameplay is gone.

Spoken like someone who has never played games developed by either of those companies before.

Sincerely, someone with over 20000+ hours combined in SI/Paradox/Firaxis games.

[gunnerfan]

15 minutes ago, (sic) said:

Just to address some of the false rumors, here's a screenshot taken from reddit, talking about stuff Miles has said on twitter:

 

Regarding the point about the save transfer not being 100% confirmed, what Miles said in his announcement was, "...I'm delighted to announce you'll be able to bring your FM23 save into FM24 across all platforms."

I don't know the source of the comment above, but MIles' statement sounds pretty damned definite to me.

[the_hdk]

18 minutes ago, HighFlyingDwarf said:

Spoken like someone who has never played games developed by either of those companies before.

Sincerely, someone with over 20000+ hours combined in SI/Paradox/Firaxis games.

haha comes from dude that "joined 2016".... do that times 3 for me

[DarJ]

22 minutes ago, gunnerfan said:

Regarding the point about the save transfer not being 100% confirmed, what Miles said in his announcement was, "...I'm delighted to announce you'll be able to bring your FM23 save into FM24 across all platforms."

I don't know the source of the comment above, but MIles' statement sounds pretty damned definite to me.

he talked about FM23 to FM24 being sure but didn't confirm FM24 to FM25, he just said that they want it to be transferable and are still working on it.

[wazzaflow10]

36 minutes ago, stopazricky said:

No one here is fully appreciating how big all of this is: the three main points in the blog post are not being talked about.

1) From FM25 on, the game will likely be sold as a service for a monthly fee. They might keep the possibility to buy a 12 month license for £69,99 though, but in any case this is huge news. Part of the reason why they're coming out about it so early is that people will probably get incredibly mad about it once it's properly announced, so they want to dilute it a bit.

My opinion is that it actually provides opportunities to save money to people that play inconsistently, so it's a win-win. The only downside is the "you'll own nothing and be happy" can of worms, one I'm not going to open.
 

I don't think they're saying that at all. They're saying that people who play the game via gamepass or apple arcade but don't actually purchase the game will lose access to their save if they do not buy the game permanently because of licenses. SI is doing us a favor by having transferrable saves and thus opening up the possibility of keeping a save onto the new game. I've played the last two versions via gamepass on my pc but thankfully never really got into any save that I cared when the license expired. I'm sure others have felt the pressure to buy the game at the last moment to keep their save. But that also reduces the current player count if players are sticking with old saves and not migrating to the new game. So its not 100% altruistic. They definitely care about having high active players via apple and microsoft sourced players. So for that group of players its incredibly important to retain active users for them rather then let them defect from the platform. 

I doubt very much they'd abandon buying a game outright for those of us who buy games through steam or don't have gamepass (because well frankly its expensive). They might however work out an additional deal with steam to say buy an upgradeable key to move from one version of the game under a generic football manager title where you get the latest version of the game for a monthly subscription but that's a big risk instead of just asking for full price of the game upfront, considering most players last less than 300 hours in any given year. 

[STANNY08]

5 hours ago, Johnny Ace said:

Eem, no. FM24 and 25 were pretty much confirmed yesterday so at least the next 2 versions are a pretty safe bet 

 

Yeah, that's what I knew, but like I said H&J said Miles had been on to say this was gonna be the last one. Hence my panic and need to come confirm.

[Nikki]

10 minutes ago, STANNY08 said:

 

Yeah, that's what I knew, but like I said H&J said Miles had been on to say this was gonna be the last one. Hence my panic and need to come confirm.

Well the blog said FM24 would be "the last of its kind" and "the closing of this chapter of our history", so that might sound like the end of the series as a whole to someone who just skimmed it and didn't bother reading more carefully before drawing conclusions.

[Harper]

9 hours ago, Nick_CB said:

You talk as if a good part of the public that consumes the game asked for this feature (women's football).

 I believe it will be a new feature that in practice will be ignored by more than half of the players, as it happens in FIFA.

I respect your opinion, but to say that there are players looking forward to this is a huge exaggeration. 

Very short-sighted comment. Having women's football in the game isn't for the current FM players requesting it. It increases the game's appeal to fans of the women's game, ergo growing the number of FM players. I expect there will be large growth in the female demographic amongst FM25 users. The Venn diagram of equal representation and commercial viability are equal circles here.

My only concern with the women's game is that it might be too late to manage Arsenal with Viv Miedema on the roster.

Edited June 29, 2023 by Harper

[Federico]

5 ore fa, stopazricky ha scritto:

1) From FM25 on, the game will likely be sold as a service for a monthly fee. They might keep the possibility to buy a 12 month license for £69,99 though, but in any case this is huge news. Part of the reason why they're coming out about it so early is that people will probably get incredibly mad about it once it's properly announced, so they want to dilute it a bit.

I partake your enthusiasm for FM25, but this statement puzzled me a little bit. I mean, where does it come from?

I remember the last time SI published a FM based on monthly fee. It didn't end well (sadly). Times have changed, but there's too much on the table to make this bet again.

Edited June 29, 2023 by Federico

[Nikki]

21 minutes ago, Federico said:

I partake your enthusiasm for FM25, but this statement puzzled me a little bit. I mean, where does it come from?

I remember the last time SI published a FM based on monthly fee. It didn't end well (sadly). Times have changed, but there's too much on the table to make this bet again.

I am guessing that refers to "Alongside this, we also started looking at different business models, platforms, working practices, and Games as a Service, and if and how we might tie these things together." from the blog. This sort of puzzled me, because it's sort of casually mentioned and then ignored in the rest of the blog, leaving a lot open to interpretation and speculation.

[wazzaflow10]

13 minutes ago, Nikki said:

I am guessing that refers to "Alongside this, we also started looking at different business models, platforms, working practices, and Games as a Service, and if and how we might tie these things together." from the blog. This sort of puzzled me, because it's sort of casually mentioned and then ignored in the rest of the blog, leaving a lot open to interpretation and speculation.

Yes but that was prefaced with

"Whilst we’ve constantly been having discussions over the years on how to improve our backend technology, back in January 2020 a small group in the team were assigned to start discussing the future more intently across the studio, to work out what to do to really push our technology forward. This became known as Project Dragonfly; a root and branch look at all the technology we use in the studio." 

Games as a service would be in reference to Stadia and Gamepass and Apple arcade where it's a subscription to access the game. I doubt they're removing the core of successful business model for the past 20 years of owning the game outright. 

[Rashidi]

11 hours ago, stopazricky said:

From FM25 on, the game will likely be sold as a service for a monthly fee. They might keep the possibility to buy a 12 month license for £69,99 though, but in any case this is huge new

That’s not what was written, they’ve considered it is all that’s mentioned and further into the blog I got the distinct impression it’s not something they are looking at for FM25.

Subscription to access is already part of the game with Gamepass and Apple Arcade. The limitation for these is that the licenses expire once a new version appears, hence the new feature to carry over a save from 23-24 and then 24-25.

If I wanted to wear my doubters hat, then I would consider that Steam charges developers quite a premium. So if one were to take a long term view, having the option to focus as “games as a service” makes sense. Still too early to make a judgement, I am just glad to be around for the next big change to the game.

I do expect a lot of changes in 25, mod makers need to use C#, Licenses are going to be interesting, better newgen faces, machine learning. With greater computational flexibility I doubt anything earlier than Win10 will be able to cope. The fact that SI games are backwards compatible to Windows 8 is just insane.

The current minimum requirements to play FM23 won’t be enough I expect. People could play with fewer leagues and still have a decent experience, and those using top end gear could be happier.

[Harrymcintyre]

The news Look exciting. I do hope they keep the 2D view though, just in case. 

[Scotty Walds]

10 hours ago, Harper said:

Very short-sighted comment. Having women's football in the game isn't for the current FM players requesting it. It increases the game's appeal to fans of the women's game, ergo growing the number of FM players. I expect there will be large growth in the female demographic amongst FM25 users. The Venn diagram of equal representation and commercial viability are equal circles here.

My only concern with the women's game is that it might be too late to manage Arsenal with Viv Miedema on the roster.

I think what we have to see it as is that it's not "women's football" being added, but an expansion to the leagues that you can manage in FM... women's football is still football!

Naturally, it'll be a semi-closed part of the game where you can't sign women to play for a men's team (and vice-versa), but you will be able to move across as a manager. Imagine winning the World Cup with England, with both the men's and women's national teams.

 

Overall, I see it that FM24 will be what they wanted FM23 to be - but with everything that happened, they've lost several months of development time and wanted to get FM23 out on time, hence the limited new features. Due the massive changes incoming, FM25 is also being developed at the same time but obviosuly come out a year later.

[fc.cadoni]

1 hour ago, Harrymcintyre said:

The news Look exciting. I do hope they keep the 2D view though, just in case. 

2D confirmed 

[metal_guitarist]

13 hours ago, stopazricky said:

1) From FM25 on, the game will likely be sold as a service for a monthly fee. They might keep the possibility to buy a 12 month license for £69,99 though, but in any case this is huge news. Part of the reason why they're coming out about it so early is that people will probably get incredibly mad about it once it's properly announced, so they want to dilute it a bit.
 

Miles said FM has no plans to go to a subscription model. 

[saihtam]

So this transfer save thing makes me wonder.

If in theory all goes well and we can carry saves from FM23-24-25.  Potentialy could start game in FM23, save, got to FM24, start-save, and then continue to FM25 and you can play with very good FM23 DB in 25? Maybe helps edditors in historical accurate DBs.

[stopazricky]

6 ore fa, metal_guitarist ha scritto:

Miles said FM has no plans to go to a subscription model. 

Then I was wrong. I tried to read between the lines, but you guys are probably right in saying that the Games as a Service reference was about Stadia and all that. I take that back.

[masno]

6 horas atrás, metal_guitarist disse:

Miles said FM has no plans to go to a subscription model. 

FM is on a subscription service though, that is Game Pass. Maybe what they said in the text is that they saw that going for GP was a good idea, instead of becoming a monthly subscription alone.

[metal_guitarist]

1 minute ago, masno said:

FM is on a subscription service though, that is Game Pass. Maybe what they said in the text is that they saw that going for GP was a good idea, instead of becoming a monthly subscription alone.

Yeah, having the game on a subscription service like GamePass or Apple Arcade in addition to being able to buy it permanently is a good thing because it widens the potential player base and people don't have to risk spending £30/£40 on a game they might not like. It might also lead to a sale of the game if someone likes it enough. No plans to move the game itself to a subscription though which I'm glad of, although I do think if SI did decide to go down this route at some point in the future, they are better placed to do it than a lot of games that try to do this sort of thing. 

[forameuss]

22 minutes ago, masno said:

FM is on a subscription service though, that is Game Pass. Maybe what they said in the text is that they saw that going for GP was a good idea, instead of becoming a monthly subscription alone.

It's more likely just acknowledgement that they're always looking at different options for the future of the game with the knowledge that most will end up on the cutting room floor.  "We looked at it" can mean anything from many people spending many months doing prototype after prototype to determine whether it's a good way to go, or it could mean one person spent a couple of hours realising it was a terrible idea.  I would've been more surprised had SI not looked at different models, but not as surprised as I'd be if they actually went through with it.

13 minutes ago, metal_guitarist said:

Yeah, having the game on a subscription service like GamePass or Apple Arcade in addition to being able to buy it permanently is a good thing because it widens the potential player base and people don't have to risk spending £30/£40 on a game they might not like. It might also lead to a sale of the game if someone likes it enough. No plans to move the game itself to a subscription though which I'm glad of, although I do think if SI did decide to go down this route at some point in the future, they are better placed to do it than a lot of games that try to do this sort of thing. 

For me it's not something I can ever see them proceeding with.  I don't really see why it really benefits SI.  It introduces an erratic income stream (as opposed to the guaranteed one you're getting now), it misaligns the yearly cycle nature of the data with having a single product you sell every Autumn, and - most crucially for me - it returns them to what they tried during FM Live.  The subscription model that had was a huge part of why the project failed.  Granted, this is a completely different product, but if you're SI, that's a massive risk to take on for a process that, let's face it, isn't really broken (to them).

Edited June 30, 2023 by forameuss

[masno]

4 horas atrás, forameuss disse:

 

For me it's not something I can ever see them proceeding with.  I don't really see why it really benefits SI.  It introduces an erratic income stream (as opposed to the guaranteed one you're getting now), it misaligns the yearly cycle nature of the data with having a single product you sell every Autumn, and - most crucially for me - it returns them to what they tried during FM Live.  The subscription model that had was a huge part of why the project failed.  Granted, this is a completely different product, but if you're SI, that's a massive risk to take on for a process that, let's face it, isn't really broken (to them).

You don't see it being possible because you look in the old ways, but let's face the truth: Everything nowadays is subscription based. The way we stream movies, now even games, and so many things, depending on the country you live. Of course that for the next 10 years we might not see any movement in order to FM turn into a subscription model, but it is completely possible considering how everything in the world is walking.

[speck]

I'm sure it's way too early to know, but something I've been wondering about the inclusion of the women's game. When setting up a new game will they be treated separately or included when you select certain countries? For example, if you select England Vanarama National and above as playable would it automatically include the Women's Super League as playable as well?

[phd_angel]

7 minutes ago, speck said:

I'm sure it's way too early to know, but something I've been wondering about the inclusion of the women's game. When setting up a new game will they be treated separately or included when you select certain countries? For example, if you select England Vanarama National and above as playable would it automatically include the Women's Super League as playable as well?

Good question. I do hope it's separate databases and even saves. I'd hate to see one more feature that I don't use slowing down my already sluggish saves...

[phnompenhandy]

Haven't logged in for a few days, so this announcement has taken me by surprise.

 

1. It starts with a reflection on FM23, admitting that some of the new features have been disappointing. I respect the honesty there. Reading between the lines, i suspect the covid lockdowns had an effect but Miles doesn't want to make too much of that as an excuse. Humble.

2. I was expecting women's football to be in FM24, but I'm happy to wait the extra year.

3. It sounds like FM24 will contain the same underwhelming levels of progression as Miles has admitted to in recent versions. However, being able to carry over my FM23 career into FM24 will probably tip the balance into buying it for me. Lately, I've been skipping versions - I didn't buy FM22 or FM20 as there wasn't enough upgrade to justify them, for me.

I'm a dogged lower league manager. I'm currently playing a Level 10 mod, adapted for my own uses. Normally, I have to wait 4 or 5 months for an editor to get a good quality mod out for me to adapt and play, so being able to continue my lowest-league career from the day the new version is released is very exciting indeed.

FM is the only computer game I've played these last two decades, so I'm ignorant of the gaming world. I've not heard of 'Unity', but no doubt we'll be educated on that when SI feels the time is right. Hopefully, it includes vast improvements to regen faces and stadia and peripherals that enhance immersion as well as the ME. I'm very much looking forward to all of it. I've got 2 years' warning to upgrade my 10-year-old PC too.

Great stuff,

KUTGW Miles.

[phnompenhandy]

On 29/06/2023 at 18:52, Nick_CB said:

You talk as if a good part of the public that consumes the game asked for this feature (women's football).

 I believe it will be a new feature that in practice will be ignored by more than half of the players, as it happens in FIFA.

I respect your opinion, but to say that there are players looking forward to this is a huge exaggeration. 

I don't follow the logic here. I myself have never managed in Brazil. But I accept it's reasonably popular, and I don't begrudge the minority who do enjoy managing in the Brazilian leagues. You, similarly, are free to not manage a women's team. Why begrudge those who are looking forward to doing so?

[Stewart1111]

If FM24 is going to be the final version of Football Manager before FM25, which will have a completely different feel and look, then here's hoping they fix everything they possibly can and add new features that fans have been asking for years on these forums, giving us a complete 'final' version of the game, because if FM25 is going to be different to all the other FM's, then at least we'll always have FM24 for those that are not into the FM25 version: Here's a list of things I really hope they add to FM24.

 

• CHANGE THE WAY AI CLUBS/MANAGERS BID ON YOUR PLAYERS. Whenever I try to sell a player all of the AI managers will offer me the exact same amount, it's like the AI managers all contact each other before they place the exact same bid on my player. For example, I'll try to sell a player and amazingly I'll receive about 12 offers all the same (even clubs from different countries) £4.6 million plus 15% sell on fee, and £525,000 after the player has played 20 games or whatever. This aspect of the game needs to be much more realistic. There should be a variety of different offers from clubs that have different reputations within the game, so richer clubs would be willing to pay more of the transfer fee upfront, with some instalments, as happens in the real world of football, whereas lower ranked/poorer teams would try and bargain and offer less of the transfer fee upfront and concentrate more on instalments and ad-ons. Even occasionally having an AI club completely cancelling their transfer bid/interest and instead making a loan offer for your player.
   
• DISCIPLINE EXPANDED. When a player has received too many yellow/red cards or misses training, you're currently only allowed to fine a player a week or two weeks wages. I'd like to be able to discipline the player even more. Suspending him from returning to the training ground for a few days, forcing him to train or play a number of Reserve/Under 20's games before he's even consider for selection for the first team, telling him that he will be benched for the next 3 games, making him apologise to the squad in a team meeting, calling the player out in front of the media, etc. The manager should have more tools at his disposal for disciplining a player other than "Fine Player Two Weeks Wages"
   
• MANAGERS WANTED BY ANOTHER CLUB. This idea has been missing for years. If another club wants you as their manager but you're still under contract with your current club, then the board should be able to reject or accept the other clubs request for wanting you before you even have an interview with the other club. Of course you can just resign as manager if they reject, but these things happens in real life. We're missing a step in this process, the clubs need to negotiate with each other. If the board rejects the offer from the other club and you're unable to talk to the other club, then you can offer the board an ultimatum, resign or discuss your demands if you're going to stay with your current club. ie, demanding a higher wage, bigger transfer budget, a promise that the board will allow you to talk to another club at the end of the season etc etc. Chairmen in this game need WAY more power, because it currently feels as if the manager runs the whole club.. It's the same with the Director of Football, a manager in real life cannot hire or sack a Director of Football, but in Football Manager we're allowed to hire or sack any board members we want (apart from the Chairman) I know you can turn this option off and set it to "Chairman hires/sacks [said role]" but it shouldn't be an option at all if we want the game to be as realistic as possible. If you don't get on with your Director of Football or don't want to work under one then too bad I guess, find a club that doesn't have one or convince the Chairman you can work on your own without one, or encourage him to sack the DoF. The more experience of a manager you are or if you've been with a club for a long time then the Chairman will tend to agree in your favour of letting you choose whether you want to work under a DoF or not.
• MORE DETAILS ADDED TO INTERNATIONAL MANAGEMENT. Surely they will finally add features to this area of the game in FM24, I don't think international management has changed since FM07, in fact I remember we had the ability to train international players and now we can't, so if anything we've actually lost features. Adding training for international managers is a MUST for FM24. I still haven't heard of a good reason why they don't add training to international management, even if we had a smaller/limited version of the training that's already in the game for club teams, having a smaller/limited version of training designed for international teams is much more realistic than having no training at all. Players in real life don't stop training when they go on international duty. I remember I had an International manager save and whenever we played teams in a competition the other nations players would reset to 99% fitness, while my players could be anywhere between 40-80% fitness, it just ruins the realism of the game when I'm unable to progress in an international competition because I'm unable to train or rest my players. 
  
  In real life the World Cup is the greatest sporting event to watch. The excitement people get when the World Cup comes around is unmatched, South Korea vs Columbia, Germany vs Australia, USA vs Denmark, it doesn't matter what game is on, we watch it.. So playing in the biggest tournament in the world, should feel special and different. Yet there's nothing about the World Cup in the game that stands out from other tournaments. Backgrounds/wallpapers/fonts should change, the opening game of the World Cup should be a big deal, the group stage draw should be a big deal, headlines like "WORLD CUP OFFICALLY KICKS OFF TOMORROW", world class players that are in their 30's should be asked if this is going to be their last time ever playing in a World Cup, media should be hectic, goals of the tournament highlights, more hype from fans and media when underdog teams are preforming well, an event taking place when choosing the next host of the World Cup, having all your previous clubs sending you emails congratulating you on winning the biggest trophy in football, etc. Even when you win it, it's treated like you've just won an average trophy.
  
  All of your staff should be on contracts. If I offer a role to a coach with my national team, he'll be there until he retires. This doesn't happen in real life. Most of them should be on the same contract length as the manager. When your contract is running out there should be media speculation about who might take over, or whether or not you're going to sign a new contract with the national team, and AI club managers from the country's top league of which you're managing being asked for their opinions, if they would take the job or whether they think you should stay on. 
  
  Better relationships between international managers and players. I would like to be able to contact a player and tell him if his form for club continues to impress then you'll pick him in the next international squad, giving the player extra motivation to keep playing well. If you're giving a player his first cap, allow us to have a conversation with the player before the squad is announced to tell him that you're going to be pick him for the upcoming national team squad. 
  
  A complete revamp of the National Pool page. This is another feature that hasn't changed for well over a decade, or even improved. I'd like to see different information next to players, make it easier to find players that are from other countries but are eligible to be called up for your country.
  
  When AI international managers are sacked after a tournament, they're always sacked on the same day. This needs to be more random, it's unrealistic and doesn't happen in real life.
  
  In real life when nations announce their 26/30 preliminary squad, some nations usually have one or two friendlies before announcing their final list of a 23 man squad, just so they can look at certain players and decide which players will make their final squad, however in FM I've never been able to arrange friendlies during the preliminary squad, because the very next day or two days later I'm then asked to submit my final squad, I then have to remove a couple of players without even a training session or friendly match. I believe FIFA gives nations an entire month from announcing their preliminary squad to their final squad list, yet in FM you're asked to submit your 23 man squad a day after you just announced a preliminary squad.
  
  
  
  Other features I'd like to see for FM24 are.. APPEALING SUSPENSIONS THAT ACTUALLY WORK. A LIVE 60 MINUTE CLOCK TICKING DOWN ON TRANSFER DEADLINE DAY. BEING ABLE TO TALK TO YOUR PLAYERS BEFORE YOU MOVE TO ANOTHER CLUB, SAYING GOODBYE, WISHING THEM ALL THE BEST, ETC. BETTER RELATIONS WITH YOUR STAFF. A COMPLETE OVERHAUL OF SET PIECES. SETTING UP YOUTH ACADEMIES AROUND THE WORLD, ESPECIALLY IN POORER COUNTRIES. HAVING CONTROL OVER PAYING OFF DEBTS, CONTROL OVER WHICH SPONSORSHIP DEALS TO ACCEPT. FIX THE 'SHOUTS' (I don't even know if this feature does anything, but managers in real life aren't limited to just saying one thing every twenty minutes) IT COULD BE VASTLY IMPROVED, EVEN MAKING IT POSSIBLE FOR MANAGERS TO BECOME IRATE WITH THE REF AND BEING SENT TO THE STANDS, AND AS SOON AS YOU GO TO THE STANDS THE GAME REMOVES YOUR ABILITY TO CONTROL TACTICS OR SUBSTITUTIONS WITH YOUR ASSISTANT MANAGER TAKING OVER FOR THE REST OF THE MATCH!

[SimonHoddle]

2 hours ago, Stewart1111 said:

If FM24 is going to be the final version of Football Manager before FM25, which will have a completely different feel and look, then here's hoping they fix everything they possibly can and add new features that fans have been asking for years on these forums, giving us a complete 'final' version of the game, because if FM25 is going to be different to all the other FM's, then at least we'll always have FM24 for those that are not into the FM25 version: Here's a list of things I really hope they add to FM24.

 

• CHANGE THE WAY AI CLUBS/MANAGERS BID ON YOUR PLAYERS. Whenever I try to sell a player all of the AI managers will offer me the exact same amount, it's like the AI managers all contact each other before they place the exact same bid on my player. For example, I'll try to sell a player and amazingly I'll receive about 12 offers all the same (even clubs from different countries) £4.6 million plus 15% sell on fee, and £525,000 after the player has played 20 games or whatever. This aspect of the game needs to be much more realistic. There should be a variety of different offers from clubs that have different reputations within the game, so richer clubs would be willing to pay more of the transfer fee upfront, with some instalments, as happens in the real world of football, whereas lower ranked/poorer teams would try and bargain and offer less of the transfer fee upfront and concentrate more on instalments and ad-ons. Even occasionally having an AI club completely cancelling their transfer bid/interest and instead making a loan offer for your player.
   
• DISCIPLINE EXPANDED. When a player has received too many yellow/red cards or misses training, you're currently only allowed to fine a player a week or two weeks wages. I'd like to be able to discipline the player even more. Suspending him from returning to the training ground for a few days, forcing him to train or play a number of Reserve/Under 20's games before he's even consider for selection for the first team, telling him that he will be benched for the next 3 games, making him apologise to the squad in a team meeting, calling the player out in front of the media, etc. The manager should have more tools at his disposal for disciplining a player other than "Fine Player Two Weeks Wages"
   
• MANAGERS WANTED BY ANOTHER CLUB. This idea has been missing for years. If another club wants you as their manager but you're still under contract with your current club, then the board should be able to reject or accept the other clubs request for wanting you before you even have an interview with the other club. Of course you can just resign as manager if they reject, but these things happens in real life. We're missing a step in this process, the clubs need to negotiate with each other. If the board rejects the offer from the other club and you're unable to talk to the other club, then you can offer the board an ultimatum, resign or discuss your demands if you're going to stay with your current club. ie, demanding a higher wage, bigger transfer budget, a promise that the board will allow you to talk to another club at the end of the season etc etc. Chairmen in this game need WAY more power, because it currently feels as if the manager runs the whole club.. It's the same with the Director of Football, a manager in real life cannot hire or sack a Director of Football, but in Football Manager we're allowed to hire or sack any board members we want (apart from the Chairman) I know you can turn this option off and set it to "Chairman hires/sacks [said role]" but it shouldn't be an option at all if we want the game to be as realistic as possible. If you don't get on with your Director of Football or don't want to work under one then too bad I guess, find a club that doesn't have one or convince the Chairman you can work on your own without one, or encourage him to sack the DoF. The more experience of a manager you are or if you've been with a club for a long time then the Chairman will tend to agree in your favour of letting you choose whether you want to work under a DoF or not.
• MORE DETAILS ADDED TO INTERNATIONAL MANAGEMENT. Surely they will finally add features to this area of the game in FM24, I don't think international management has changed since FM07, in fact I remember we had the ability to train international players and now we can't, so if anything we've actually lost features. Adding training for international managers is a MUST for FM24. I still haven't heard of a good reason why they don't add training to international management, even if we had a smaller/limited version of the training that's already in the game for club teams, having a smaller/limited version of training designed for international teams is much more realistic than having no training at all. Players in real life don't stop training when they go on international duty. I remember I had an International manager save and whenever we played teams in a competition the other nations players would reset to 99% fitness, while my players could be anywhere between 40-80% fitness, it just ruins the realism of the game when I'm unable to progress in an international competition because I'm unable to train or rest my players. 
  
  In real life the World Cup is the greatest sporting event to watch. The excitement people get when the World Cup comes around is unmatched, South Korea vs Columbia, Germany vs Australia, USA vs Denmark, it doesn't matter what game is on, we watch it.. So playing in the biggest tournament in the world, should feel special and different. Yet there's nothing about the World Cup in the game that stands out from other tournaments. Backgrounds/wallpapers/fonts should change, the opening game of the World Cup should be a big deal, the group stage draw should be a big deal, headlines like "WORLD CUP OFFICALLY KICKS OFF TOMORROW", world class players that are in their 30's should be asked if this is going to be their last time ever playing in a World Cup, media should be hectic, goals of the tournament highlights, more hype from fans and media when underdog teams are preforming well, an event taking place when choosing the next host of the World Cup, having all your previous clubs sending you emails congratulating you on winning the biggest trophy in football, etc. Even when you win it, it's treated like you've just won an average trophy.
  
  All of your staff should be on contracts. If I offer a role to a coach with my national team, he'll be there until he retires. This doesn't happen in real life. Most of them should be on the same contract length as the manager. When your contract is running out there should be media speculation about who might take over, or whether or not you're going to sign a new contract with the national team, and AI club managers from the country's top league of which you're managing being asked for their opinions, if they would take the job or whether they think you should stay on. 
  
  Better relationships between international managers and players. I would like to be able to contact a player and tell him if his form for club continues to impress then you'll pick him in the next international squad, giving the player extra motivation to keep playing well. If you're giving a player his first cap, allow us to have a conversation with the player before the squad is announced to tell him that you're going to be pick him for the upcoming national team squad. 
  
  A complete revamp of the National Pool page. This is another feature that hasn't changed for well over a decade, or even improved. I'd like to see different information next to players, make it easier to find players that are from other countries but are eligible to be called up for your country.
  
  When AI international managers are sacked after a tournament, they're always sacked on the same day. This needs to be more random, it's unrealistic and doesn't happen in real life.
  
  In real life when nations announce their 26/30 preliminary squad, some nations usually have one or two friendlies before announcing their final list of a 23 man squad, just so they can look at certain players and decide which players will make their final squad, however in FM I've never been able to arrange friendlies during the preliminary squad, because the very next day or two days later I'm then asked to submit my final squad, I then have to remove a couple of players without even a training session or friendly match. I believe FIFA gives nations an entire month from announcing their preliminary squad to their final squad list, yet in FM you're asked to submit your 23 man squad a day after you just announced a preliminary squad.
  
  
  
  Other features I'd like to see for FM24 are.. APPEALING SUSPENSIONS THAT ACTUALLY WORK. A LIVE 60 MINUTE CLOCK TICKING DOWN ON TRANSFER DEADLINE DAY. BEING ABLE TO TALK TO YOUR PLAYERS BEFORE YOU MOVE TO ANOTHER CLUB, SAYING GOODBYE, WISHING THEM ALL THE BEST, ETC. BETTER RELATIONS WITH YOUR STAFF. A COMPLETE OVERHAUL OF SET PIECES. SETTING UP YOUTH ACADEMIES AROUND THE WORLD, ESPECIALLY IN POORER COUNTRIES. HAVING CONTROL OVER PAYING OFF DEBTS, CONTROL OVER WHICH SPONSORSHIP DEALS TO ACCEPT. FIX THE 'SHOUTS' (I don't even know if this feature does anything, but managers in real life aren't limited to just saying one thing every twenty minutes) IT COULD BE VASTLY IMPROVED, EVEN MAKING IT POSSIBLE FOR MANAGERS TO BECOME IRATE WITH THE REF AND BEING SENT TO THE STANDS, AND AS SOON AS YOU GO TO THE STANDS THE GAME REMOVES YOUR ABILITY TO CONTROL TACTICS OR SUBSTITUTIONS WITH YOUR ASSISTANT MANAGER TAKING OVER FOR THE REST OF THE MATCH!

I wouldn’t be surprised if a lot of what you’re suggesting (particularly around the match) comes in some form in 25. I think the 25 match day experience is going to be revolutionary. It’s very exciting tbh. It’s the match day experience and the match that football is ultimately about. I can’t wait, but can’t lie around in my joggers for next 18 months, so have to

[Dagenham_Dave]

23 hours ago, metal_guitarist said:

Miles said FM has no plans to go to a subscription model. 

They also said FM Touch for PC was 'going nowhere' about 2 months before they announced they were binning it. 

[(sic)]

9 hours ago, speck said:

I'm sure it's way too early to know, but something I've been wondering about the inclusion of the women's game. When setting up a new game will they be treated separately or included when you select certain countries? For example, if you select England Vanarama National and above as playable would it automatically include the Women's Super League as playable as well?

 

9 hours ago, phd_angel said:

Good question. I do hope it's separate databases and even saves. I'd hate to see one more feature that I don't use slowing down my already sluggish saves...

 

Miles has confirmed that they would act as any other league, meaning you can choose to load women's leagues or not. See my screenshot above on this page.

[Scotty Walds]

11 hours ago, phd_angel said:

I do hope it's separate databases and even saves

This would be silly, and might as well be its own game if true. Of course it's going to be part of the same database and save. You'll be able to move between men's and women's football as a manager.

I can see "England (MEN)" and "England (WOMEN)" being separately selectable as leagues, though.

[gunnerfan]

7 hours ago, Stewart1111 said:

Other features I'd like to see for FM24 are.. APPEALING SUSPENSIONS THAT ACTUALLY WORK. A LIVE 60 MINUTE CLOCK TICKING DOWN ON TRANSFER DEADLINE DAY. BEING ABLE TO TALK TO YOUR PLAYERS BEFORE YOU MOVE TO ANOTHER CLUB, SAYING GOODBYE, WISHING THEM ALL THE BEST, ETC. BETTER RELATIONS WITH YOUR STAFF. A COMPLETE OVERHAUL OF SET PIECES. SETTING UP YOUTH ACADEMIES AROUND THE WORLD, ESPECIALLY IN POORER COUNTRIES. HAVING CONTROL OVER PAYING OFF DEBTS, CONTROL OVER WHICH SPONSORSHIP DEALS TO ACCEPT. FIX THE 'SHOUTS' (I don't even know if this feature does anything, but managers in real life aren't limited to just saying one thing every twenty minutes) IT COULD BE VASTLY IMPROVED, EVEN MAKING IT POSSIBLE FOR MANAGERS TO BECOME IRATE WITH THE REF AND BEING SENT TO THE STANDS, AND AS SOON AS YOU GO TO THE STANDS THE GAME REMOVES YOUR ABILITY TO CONTROL TACTICS OR SUBSTITUTIONS WITH YOUR ASSISTANT MANAGER TAKING OVER FOR THE REST OF THE MATCH!

Some excellent suggestions here. I'd say the whole aspect of interacting with players, either individually or the team as a whole, needs work. The manager should be able to discuss matters with players any time, not just to praise or criticize performance (a lot of player unhappiness could be nipped in the bud this way); change expected playing time, not just when the assman "suggests" it; call team meetings when he feels it's needed, not just when the assman suggests it.

[bartdude]

It's good that we will be able to continue our career into FM2024 but my major concern regarding FM2025 is because it's a major re-write, it's surely inevitable that third party add-ons will come to an end ? It's these add-ons from the FM community that has made FM the immersive experience it has become. With new hard coding in FM2025, this will surely become a challenge too far and without sounding cynical could become a cash cow for Si, who would only released licensed and "official" add-ons and at a cost ?

[phnompenhandy]

12 minutes ago, bartdude said:

It's good that we will be able to continue our career into FM2024 but my major concern regarding FM2025 is because it's a major re-write, it's surely inevitable that third party add-ons will come to an end ? It's these add-ons from the FM community that has made FM the immersive experience it has become. With new hard coding in FM2025, this will surely become a challenge too far and without sounding cynical could become a cash cow for Si, who would only released licensed and "official" add-ons and at a cost ?

A poster above said Unity is very mod-friendly.

[XaW]

32 minutes ago, bartdude said:

It's good that we will be able to continue our career into FM2024 but my major concern regarding FM2025 is because it's a major re-write, it's surely inevitable that third party add-ons will come to an end ? It's these add-ons from the FM community that has made FM the immersive experience it has become. With new hard coding in FM2025, this will surely become a challenge too far and without sounding cynical could become a cash cow for Si, who would only released licensed and "official" add-ons and at a cost ?

Based on this from Miles, I'd say it's unlikely modding will be removed.

That said, I don't have any inside info about this, I'm only reading into this tweet.

[DMaster2]

Interesting stuff, but there are two things that bugs me.

1) FM24 is likely not worth it, i honestly see no point in getting that one when we already know it will be FM23+ (which isn't saying much, in my experience FM23 is one of the worst in the series due to unresolved bugs like player's progression, transfer history bug, etc...)

2) FM25 looks interesting and they promised a lot of much needed graphicals improvement (finally...) but where is the real juice? I want to see a complete overhaul of a broken transfer and loan system, generally speaking a broken squad management from the AI, i want to see an actually interesting international management side, etc... A nice paint coat for graphics and UI and women's football (which i could care less if i'm being honest) are not enough arguments to convince me buying FM25.

I'm aware they mentioned there will be other improvements, but until they say out loud they reworked those areas i'm not interested in spending more money in this series. I guess we'll see.

[CJWrootFM]

I hope there is a chance to add and bring back some former teams, I remember harchester utd was a team you can play with in I think 07, be good to get them back and add some other teams like AFC Richmond, I know licensing is a issue but I am sure they would jump to the chance. 

 

And maybe if one teams folds due to financial problems a phoenix club can come in and you can start from scratch

 

Edited July 1, 2023 by CJWrootFM

[NRZ]

As long as it doesn't screw with my Japan file when I transfer my game over I'm happy. Sick and tired of having to search on forums of how to get the league back with each update lol here hoping switching to a new game keeps my stuff intacted.

[(sic)]

I really don't understand how so many people read the announcement, and came to a conclusion that FM24 is absolutely not gonna be worth buying, and that it's gonna be the same game without any new features...

 

If you had actually read the article, you'd see that they're going to implement certain features that didn't make it into FM23, and I'm pretty sure they planned ahead for certain new features to be introduced in FM24 (like the save thing). 

They also mentioned animations, which tbf they keep adding each year, but it's always welcome.

 

By the looks of it, FM24 is going to be much more polished than previous versions on release, and I doubt that there are going to be even less major features than there were for FM23. So if anything, FM23 to 24 will be a bigger step up than FM22 to 23, judging by what we know so far. It's also going to be the last FM of its kind, so it's definitely going to be the best version of the current FM as we know it.

Obviously, there's still a couple of months before we even get any announcements, but I'll definitely be buying the game (even though I'll absolutely criticize it if necessary, and ask why certain stuff isn't in the game, though the FM25 announcement has regained a lot of my "trust", but I'd expect certain stuff to be in FM25 in that case).

[Matteo3champions]

Do you think that fm 25 will be available to play with steam deck? There are other games verified to play with deck which are using Unity engine? Thanks. 

[stockwellpete]

2 hours ago, (sic) said:

I really don't understand how so many people read the announcement, and came to a conclusion that FM24 is absolutely not gonna be worth buying, and that it's gonna be the same game without any new features...

Yes, me too. It seems to me that FM24 will have all the stuff that didn't quite make it into FM23, plus some new specifically FM24 stuff, plus the new FM24 database of players. Pretty good, I would have thought. I shall be buying it.