Football Manager 2020 Feedback Thread

[Johnny Ace]

2 minutes ago, bleventozturk said:

Thanks mate. I guess it is not on their priority list, which is understandable given the more urgent matters that need to be addressed. But I hate it when small but annoying stuff like this does not get addressed in their final version. It happens sometimes and ruins my experience with that version of the game lol.

Yeah, I totally agree, I'll have a look tonight if I get the chance  

[MBarbaric]

2 ore fa, XaW ha scritto:

I play with a high line and thus balls over the top are a way to counter my tactic, so having a defender drop a bit deeper is a tactical way of handling i legit issue that comes with my tactical choices. Now, I don't know how you play at all, but if you are playing with a high line, or with much pressure or any other aggressive tactic, then balls over the top are a good way to counter your instructions and a way the AI should respond. If you chose to ignore it, then the error lies in your hands.

 

1 ora fa, herne79 ha scritto:

Interested to know why using a DC with a cover duty would feel like cheating?  All roles and duties in the game are based on real life interpretations, so why would using one be cheating?

 

1 ora fa, Rashidi ha scritto:

So someone else has a different way of playing, including having one defender on cover which for years has been a strategy a lot of fm players have taken and now suddenly a different approach is cheating? Or his method of playing is not common? Sometimes we should allow other people to have an opinion without sounding condescending.

roles and duties, as represented in the ME/TC are not how they are used in real football. This is down to very limited interpretation of roles/duties. In real, they are dynamic, they change with the phase of play and the same player i.e. DM can in posession be a DLP when the ball is in defensive third, while when the ball is in middle third, he will play as a half-back. In real, this is determined by coaches idea how to get into the middle third and it isn't isolated. Frequently i.e. the 3 central midfielders will switch their roles/duties as they rotate within one attacking sequence.

In FM, however, a DLP DM is always a DLP while B2B CM is always a B2B CM. This doesn't reflect how football tactics, or football in general, work. Moreover, in real, all players on the team will adjust their positions in relation to their team mates. This constant adjustment creates movement that creates space and is valid throughout the thirds. It means that players don't have roles/duties set in stone but they are dynamicaly adjusted in relation to the zone of play, team mates, tactical plan... All of this is lacking in the ME and prevents the ME from representing a believeable action on the virtual pitch. I am not saying this is an easy task or even if it can be realisticaly done. All I am saying is that without realistic movement and roles/duties you can't have realistic offensive output in the ME. SI will always run after plugging the holes as they do since the introduction of the 3D. Currently, you have (somewhat) realistic role naming, tactical individual and team instructions but you lack the basis for them to play out as one would expect from a football team. An average player might not understand the underlaying factors (described above) but he will recognize there is something wrong with how those instructions play out and it usually manifests with frustration.

As for the bolded part in quoted lines... I work as a professional opposition analyst and I can confirm you there is no team in the world that uses one defender on cover duty in defensive line. That isn't how defeding phase in football works. Cover/pressure are dynamic. One defender puts pressure on the player on the ball forcing him towards supporting player/weak foot/sideline, the rest squeeze the line and drop into cover as the second line of defence. This is how every defensive shape works. There is no one player designated to cover while the other goes to pressure.

Imagine this situation on the pitch: CBL is "pressure" and CBR is "cover". The opposition attacks the CBR "cover". What does he do? Drops deep until he finds himself in six yard box? Waits for CBL "pressure" to shift over to the right side leaving his position? It doesn't work like that. 

 

This is how the back line shoud react in 99% of the time. They work as a unit (whole back line), and as pairs (but not as single defender whenever possible). I am not saying it is the only way but that is the standard for 99% of teams and situations. It is nonsense to talk about exceptions until the ME is able to perform the most basic behaviour. 

Edited December 13, 2019 by MBarbaric

[Grancher]

Did the guys who make this games ever play a season or they just too busy to that.

[kandersson]

2 hours ago, Novem9 said:

How to reset?

I have no any active transfers but there are yellow icon. 

Yes, this happens to me all the time. It goes away eventually but still very annoying.

[bleventozturk]

8 minutes ago, MBarbaric said:

 

 

roles and duties, as represented in the ME/TC are not how they are used in real football. This is down to very limited interpretation of roles/duties. In real, they are dynamic, they change with the phase of play and the same player i.e. DM can in posession be a DLP when the ball is in defensive third, while when the ball is in middle third, he will play as a half-back. In real, this is determined by coaches idea how to get into the middle third and it isn't isolated. Frequently i.e. the 3 central midfielders will switch their roles/duties as they rotate within one attacking sequence.

In FM, however, a DLP DM is always a DLP while B2B CM is always a B2B CM. This doesn't reflect how football tactics, or football in general, work. Moreover, in real, all players on the team will adjust their positions in relation to their team mates. This constant adjustment creates movement that creates space and is valid throughout the thirds. It means that players don't have roles/duties set in stone but they are dynamicaly adjusted in relation to the zone of play, team mates, tactical plan... All of this is lacking in the ME and prevents the ME from representing a believeable action on the virtual pitch. I am not saying this is an easy task or even if it can be realisticaly done. All I am saying is that without realistic movement and roles/duties you can't have realistic offensive output in the ME. SI will always run after plugging the holes as they do since the introduction of the 3D. Currently, you have (somewhat) realistic role naming, tactical individual and team instructions but you lack the basis for them to play out as one would expect from a football team. An average player might not understand the underlaying factors (described above) but he will recognize there is something wrong with how those instructions play out and it usually manifests with frustration.

As for the bolded part in quoted lines... I work as a professional opposition analyst and I can confirm you there is no team in the world that uses one defender on cover duty in defensive line. That isn't how defeding phase in football works. Cover/pressure are dynamic. One defender puts pressure on the player on the ball forcing him towards supporting player/weak foot/sideline, the rest squeeze the line and drop into cover as the second line of defence. This is how every defensive shape works. There is no one player designated to cover while the other goes to pressure.

Imagine this situation on the pitch: CBL is "pressure" and CBR is "cover". The opposition attacks the CBR "cover". What does he do? Drops deep until he finds himself in six yard box? Waits for CBL "pressure" to shift over to the right side leaving his position? It doesn't work like that. 

 

This is how the back line shoud react in 99% of the time. They work as a unit, not as pairs. I am not saying it is the only way but that is the standard for 99% of teams and situations. It is nonsense to talk about exceptions until the ME is able to perform the most basic behaviour. 

This is just a great post, and should help setting our expectations for what the ME is/can become, while unfortunately killing the immersion that we are a tactical guru when all we are doing is finding some exploits in the ME. This is the reason why several times in the past I suggested that the roles should be gone from the game eventually, and let the attributes rule how a player will act in the ME. I have no idea how and when that can be achieved, but it should be the end goal one day if you are going for realism.

[Mikke]

4 minutes ago, bleventozturk said:

This is just a great post, and should help setting our expectations for what the ME is/can become, while unfortunately killing the immersion that we are a tactical guru when all we are doing is finding some exploits in the ME. This is the reason why several times in the past I suggested that the roles should be gone from the game eventually, and let the attributes rule how a player will act in the ME. I have no idea how and when that can be achieved, but it should be the end goal one day if you are going for realism.

I don't know if you're intentionally over-simplifying what you want, but it's impossible to let just attributes rule how players act. You need to be able to give instructions, and the roles are an easy way to give a certain set of instructions.

Edited December 13, 2019 by Mikke

[MBarbaric]

2 minuti fa, Mikke ha scritto:

I don't know if you're intentionally over-simplifying what you want, but it's impossible to let just attributes rule how players act. You need to be able to give instructions, and the roles are an easy way to give a certain set of instructions.

wibble/wobble is how football tactics are mostly done in real. FM had it long time ago but it was too exploitative. partly due to poor implementation, partly to poor defensive phase. However, an updated wibble wobble with triggers for different behaviours in different zones, designating certain players to do certain things in dedicated zones (playmakers/target men), the way you feed the ball to certain players...

It might work for human player, but how would that work for AI? You'd need an army of analysts to feed the ME with exact moves/behaviour/principles for each coach.... 

[herne79]

41 minutes ago, MBarbaric said:

As for the bolded part in quoted lines... I work as a professional opposition analyst and I can confirm you there is no team in the world that uses one defender on cover duty in defensive line. That isn't how defeding phase in football works. Cover/pressure are dynamic. One defender puts pressure on the player on the ball forcing him towards supporting player/weak foot/sideline, the rest squeeze the line and drop into cover as the second line of defence. This is how every defensive shape works. There is no one player designated to cover while the other goes to pressure.

We all understand this but dynamic roles in real life vs FM isn't the point we were responding to or making so not sure why you brought it up.  The point was that apparently the AI don't use (for example) the CD cover role/duty and how it may be considered cheating if we use it - when of course the AI do use it and we don't understand how it's cheating.  Nothing about dynamic roles which is a completely separate subject.

[bleventozturk]

24 minutes ago, Mikke said:

I don't know if you're intentionally over-simplifying what you want, but it's impossible to let just attributes rule how players act. You need to be able to give instructions, and the roles are an easy way to give a certain set of instructions.

Team instructions and some basic player instructions should still be there.  But no real life manager micromanages each player's exact behaviour in different situations. In FM we can do that, because it is easy to do with some clicking of the mouse. Otherwise I understand why the roles have been introduced to FM at some point, and it also really helped limiting exploits of the wibble/wobble system that we had before.

Also, I just really find it unrealistic that players SEEM TO follow these instructions regardless of their attributes. Once you tell a player that he will be playing a B2B midfielder role, regardless of his attributes you see a B2B midfielder on the screen, even if he has very low stamina or work rate. I am sure it has an affect on the calculation of the score, but when it comes to representation on the screen, no difference.

[MBarbaric]

16 minuti fa, herne79 ha scritto:

We all understand this but dynamic roles in real life vs FM isn't the point we were responding to or making so not sure why you brought it up.  The point was that apparently the AI don't use (for example) the CD cover role/duty and how it may be considered cheating if we use it - when of course the AI do use it and we don't understand how it's cheating.  Nothing about dynamic roles which is a completely separate subject.

i just wanted to say it shouldn't be an issue as CB cover/press duties shouldn't exist in the game at all.

paradoxicaly, in the game oriented towards football tactics, they do exist in the ME. I think that makes it relevant regardless of the fact AI does/doesn't use it.

Edited December 13, 2019 by MBarbaric

[herne79]

11 minutes ago, MBarbaric said:

i just wanted to say it shouldn't be an issue as CB cover/press duties shouldn't exist in the game at all.

Why?  As you yourself say:

1 hour ago, MBarbaric said:

One defender puts pressure on the player on the ball forcing him towards supporting player/weak foot/sideline, the rest squeeze the line and drop into cover as the second line of defence.

Thus - until such time as the ME is able to produce dynamic interplay (ie., the rest of your context which no one is debating) - we absolutely should have these differences in duty (if we want them) as that's the nearest interpretation to real life which the ME is currently able to produce.

We can only deal with the tools and ME that we have, which unfortunately does not currently cover dynamic interchange of roles.  So yeh, CB cover/press probably shouldn't exist - but only in a world where we have a totally different ME.

[davehanson]

2 hours ago, Dagenham_Dave said:

I have to thank SI again for giving me a different match engine to everyone else according to the folks on here. 

I've got my team playing some lovely football now, 1v1s are being scored at a realistic rate, tactical changes have an effect (positive and negative), shots on goal for me and the AI are all realistic, all types of goals being scored, etc etc. Even the balls over the top have been nerfed after a few tactical tweaks. The only criticism I would give it right now is that defensive reactions are still a bit off, however I'm unsure with this is an ME or an animations issue (or both). I've not enjoyed a match engine this much since the final FM17 one. 

 

 

8 hours ago, davehanson said:

Can you upload pkm's of the one v ones please so we can have a look to see whats different in your chances compared to ours? Might give some of us a better idea of where we are going wrong.

Can we see the PKM's. As I said I honestly think it would help people see what type of chances you are creating and scoring compared to what they are missing. Thanks.

[Mitja]

21 minutes ago, herne79 said:

We all understand this but dynamic roles in real life vs FM isn't the point we were responding to or making so not sure why you brought it up.  The point was that apparently the AI don't use (for example) the CD cover role/duty and how it may be considered cheating if we use it - when of course the AI do use it and we don't understand how it's cheating.  Nothing about dynamic roles which is a completely separate subject.

Im pretty sure ai would never use it in four men defense. Here is another example. Lets say I figure out that playing lone striker with defend duty vastly improves his scorind, assisting or just general play. If ai never used defensive duty on lone striker, I wouldnt do it too. I have no problem with how people play. But suggesting tactical solutions for known issues and on top of it, such that ai wont use...I dont know, a little strange to me.

[Rashidi]

1 hour ago, MBarbaric said:

As for the bolded part in quoted lines... I work as a professional opposition analyst and I can confirm you there is no team in the world that uses one defender on cover duty in defensive line. That isn't how defeding phase in football works. Cover/pressure are dynamic. One defender puts pressure on the player on the ball forcing him towards supporting player/weak foot/sideline, the rest squeeze the line and drop into cover as the second line of defence. This is how every defensive shape works. There is no one player designated to cover while the other goes to pressure.

At the risk of repeating myself to death, I am not talking about real life football, but strategies that players have used to get the covering mechanic to work in different ways in the game.  Yes i agree that there is a dynamic nature for the cover/pressure mechanic that needs to be addressed in the game, but it's more than just that. The issue goes deeper than that. And it requires pkms so that these can be addressed which I have been providing religiously.

Plus this is a game, and people should be allowed to play it the way they want within whatever framework SI has set it in. If they handed gamers the option to use different duties, its their right to use it the way they want to because they are playing a game. If the developers programmed the AI to behave in a set of ways it's also their right because they set the boundaries within which we play the game. If they feel its a realistic depiction of the game, then their vindication comes from overall sales figures of the game and the fact that they have customers who play the game.

If people feel they don't share the same vision or feel the game can be improved, naturally its also their right to express it and that is the purpose of the thread. What I take exception to is when some quarters suggest that the way a group of players approach the game in an unrealistic way. Who are we to judge how someone else plays the game? This is not suggesting that you personally feel that way, which i know you don't. I just play the game the way i want, and I think there are others who do to. And in the long run SI has a vision of where they want the game to go and we are just a big group of people trying to suggest ways they can do to make it better. Personally I do feel that marking needs tightening up, a lot in fact. For now there are several work arounds, one of which is a old way of using a cover/defend option and another is to judiciously be paying attention to your own defensive line and the roles and duties that sit within it. It's not perfect and can do with some improvement.

[MBarbaric]

24 minuti fa, herne79 ha scritto:

Why?

because it doesn't work like that. You can't have a functional defence with one player on press and the other on cover. They both need to alternate as conditions change. This has to be implemented dynamically in the ME (and to some extent it is) as "cover" player will move to press regardless of his duty. Therefore, what does cover/press do anyway? 

Does it encourage the covering player to drop deeper than the back line? How does that instruction relate to the fb's? who do they follow, the covering player or the pressing player?

p---p----p

-----c-----

 

 

That goes completely against defensive principles in football that should be:

--------------p------

c------c-----------c

 

The problem is you have some instructions (i.e. cover/press for cb's) that have no real value in real football. They just make you think you do some tactical adjustment that you may (or not) benefit from. But you don't really have any idea how that plays on the pitch. The worst is, they make no sense in football logic. This (along with numerous other instructions roles/duties) creates impression that you make some sensible tactical decisions in the game. But so many times these have no football logic. You pick buzzwords from media that FM offers you giving you an illusion that you are making more/less sound tactical decisions. Yet, you are more like that monkey randomly pressing buttons on typewriter hoping to write the next Macbeth. 

This is the biggest problem with the FM as it offers you an illusion of making tactical decisions, yet they are very disjointed and sometimes lacking basic football logic. This, in turn, pissess people off as they have selected DLF, they have selected IF so why they don't behave like liverpool?

 

[Sanel]

3 hours ago, Svenc said:

Actually, not all, but quite a few one on ones are anything but from favoribale positioins, which is (part) of the issue. They are taken from yards out, or as the wide players are through on Goal so easily, from tough angles which make it really easy for the keeper. Will do my stress test again on the weekend of how often 1on1s on actually FAVORABLE positions are converted. Prior the the pathc, it was a slight cut above 50/50. Over dozens attempts.

The red dots as well as the stuff bunching out widish (Players 8, 18, 27) are some of those  one on ones.





(The blue dots are again the headers from the set piece under pressure, so jack all created from actually Play in premium zones of the pitch in these Matches). Not all 1vs1 are euqal, and shouldn't be post-patch once properly addressed. The game were far better off ditching the CCCs and going with a half-way intelligent analysis of such shot maps instead in general.

 

You always type so much without actually explaining or meaning anything, it amazes me.
  
The fact that people are comparing irl statics to FM or even debating those 1on1s makes me laugh. SI wants constructive feedback? Patch the game ASAP, you don't want people to buy this for christmas and play this garbage.

[Delvi]

2 ore fa, MBarbaric ha scritto:

 

 

roles and duties, as represented in the ME/TC are not how they are used in real football. This is down to very limited interpretation of roles/duties. In real, they are dynamic, they change with the phase of play and the same player i.e. DM can in posession be a DLP when the ball is in defensive third, while when the ball is in middle third, he will play as a half-back. In real, this is determined by coaches idea how to get into the middle third and it isn't isolated. Frequently i.e. the 3 central midfielders will switch their roles/duties as they rotate within one attacking sequence.

In FM, however, a DLP DM is always a DLP while B2B CM is always a B2B CM. This doesn't reflect how football tactics, or football in general, work. Moreover, in real, all players on the team will adjust their positions in relation to their team mates. This constant adjustment creates movement that creates space and is valid throughout the thirds. It means that players don't have roles/duties set in stone but they are dynamicaly adjusted in relation to the zone of play, team mates, tactical plan... All of this is lacking in the ME and prevents the ME from representing a believeable action on the virtual pitch. I am not saying this is an easy task or even if it can be realisticaly done. All I am saying is that without realistic movement and roles/duties you can't have realistic offensive output in the ME. SI will always run after plugging the holes as they do since the introduction of the 3D. Currently, you have (somewhat) realistic role naming, tactical individual and team instructions but you lack the basis for them to play out as one would expect from a football team. An average player might not understand the underlaying factors (described above) but he will recognize there is something wrong with how those instructions play out and it usually manifests with frustration.

As for the bolded part in quoted lines... I work as a professional opposition analyst and I can confirm you there is no team in the world that uses one defender on cover duty in defensive line. That isn't how defeding phase in football works. Cover/pressure are dynamic. One defender puts pressure on the player on the ball forcing him towards supporting player/weak foot/sideline, the rest squeeze the line and drop into cover as the second line of defence. This is how every defensive shape works. There is no one player designated to cover while the other goes to pressure.

Imagine this situation on the pitch: CBL is "pressure" and CBR is "cover". The opposition attacks the CBR "cover". What does he do? Drops deep until he finds himself in six yard box? Waits for CBL "pressure" to shift over to the right side leaving his position? It doesn't work like that. 

 

This is how the back line shoud react in 99% of the time. They work as a unit (whole back line), and as pairs (but not as single defender whenever possible). I am not saying it is the only way but that is the standard for 99% of teams and situations. It is nonsense to talk about exceptions until the ME is able to perform the most basic behaviour. 

THIS

I also raised a question about the behaviour of defenders with "ball uncovered" in the final third, but didn't receive an answer.

 

[Novem9]

I like to see how my players dont shot in boxarea and assist for teammate in better position.

But long passing from CBs is imba of ME. I know modern football is quick and using empty space but looks like there are too much of this

[MBarbaric]

38 minuti fa, Rashidi ha scritto:

At the risk of repeating myself to death, I am not talking about real life football, but strategies that players have used to get the covering mechanic to work in different ways in the game.  Yes i agree that there is a dynamic nature for the cover/pressure mechanic that needs to be addressed in the game, but it's more than just that. The issue goes deeper than that. And it requires pkms so that these can be addressed which I have been providing religiously.

You are just practical about advice within the boundaries that the game is offering. However, these advices just aren't valid to some proportion of the playerbase and this playerbase also needs to be understood. Offering an unrealistic measure (i.e. CB on cover) to deal with current ME issue simply isn't good enough for people who want a functional game. It is as good as saying your SC can't score? why you don't just instruct him to use his hands? This is obviously an exaggeration, but it is there to put the point across. Some people just see things in different manner.

 

[Rashidi]

2 minutes ago, MBarbaric said:

You are just practical about advice within the boundaries that the game is offering.

That is why i am such a happy beaver. I treat it like a game.

[KlaaZ]

1 minute ago, MBarbaric said:

You are just practical about advice within the boundaries that the game is offering. However, these advices just aren't valid to some proportion of the playerbase and this playerbase also needs to be understood. Offering an unrealistic measure (i.e. CB on cover) to deal with current ME issue simply isn't good enough for people who want a functional game. It is as good as saying your SC can't score? why you don't just instruct him to use his hands? This is obviously an exaggeration, but it is there to put the point across. Some people just see things in different manner.

 

Why would a defender on cover be an unrealistic measure to counter balls over the top though? The rest of your comparison is quite nonsensical, sorry. using a CD(C) is a perfect tactical measure. Using your hands is not. 

You don't have to play with a defender on cover by the way. You can also employ the offside trap, put more pressure on the people lunging it over your defense to make sure the passes are off or other things. 

And as Rashidi said, it helps to keep in mind that this is still a video game. And that it will never be an accurate representation of football since:

1) Real life football is too random and complex to replicate, especially for the AI.

2) The moment the ME gets too realistic, they'll lose a huge part of their sales/income because it will become pretty much impossible to become successful with a smaller club (or even a bigger one) for 99% of us.

[MBarbaric]

In questo momento, Rashidi ha scritto:

That is why i am such a happy beaver. I treat it like a game.

indeed, but we all see things from different angles. For me, that is just not good enough despite the fact that I can appreciate your good will to help (when the nature of advice doesn't actually infuriate me ). However, your and mine behaviour stems from differences in how we see things in general. It is just people. For some of us, nothing short of perfect will ever be good enough. Not just in FM but in general. That doesn't mean anyone is coming with an idea to make others' life miserable not that one approach is better than the other. Just different ways we pereive and process the world (and games) around us.

[Mikke]

3 minutes ago, MBarbaric said:

indeed, but we all see things from different angles. For me, that is just not good enough despite the fact that I can appreciate your good will to help (when the nature of advice doesn't actually infuriate me ). However, your and mine behaviour stems from differences in how we see things in general. It is just people. For some of us, nothing short of perfect will ever be good enough. Not just in FM but in general. That doesn't mean anyone is coming with an idea to make others' life miserable not that one approach is better than the other. Just different ways we pereive and process the world (and games) around us.

The day when FM match engine does not have anything unrealistic that needs to be dealt with the means the game gives us, is also the day when the match engine is run by a true AI. Before that, someone will always be complaining. And probably even after that...

Edited December 13, 2019 by Mikke

[herne79]

45 minutes ago, MBarbaric said:

because it doesn't work like that

We know.  You're missing the point, taking things out of context and introducing an issue (which nobody is debating or disagreeing with) which was never being discussed in the first place.

[Mitja]

55 minutes ago, KlaaZ said:

Why would a defender on cover be an unrealistic measure to counter balls over the top though? The rest of your comparison is quite nonsensical, sorry. using a CD(C) is a perfect tactical measure. Using your hands is not. 

Try to find example of real life cover duty. Libero is maybe such example but there are not many anymore. Like he explained in details, it is not how football is played. Modern defenders stay in line thats basics and how all teams play. Liberos and sweepers are an oldschool way of defending. And this is even reflected in fm. There are BPDs, guys who will bring the ball up but they all stay in line.

Edited December 13, 2019 by Mitja

[Miravlix]

I'm Barca my biggest competition is Real Madrid and Atlético Madrid, so why does my match performance contain: 

 

Negative:

Disappointed with the margin of victory against a supposedly inferior team.

 

What's up with the club rating in FM20, I also have problems with my OWN players thinking Barca is an inferior team and wanting to go elsewhere (PSG seem to be the only "big" team according to the stupid math of FM.).

 

[herne79]

Just removed a few posts.  If anyone has an issue with someone or a post, hit the report post button.

[zachalxnder]

Is anyone else seeing a lot of transfer requests for the promise of signing a player to help the signing settle being broken? It seems to be happening quite a bit in my save; Fabian moved to City, and requested a transfer a week after his move. 

[Daz2205]

Is this bug report worthy or is this just a freak incident with just poor animations making it look bad? The player intelligence is what crosses my mind, along with there's no player around him, his ability to handle the situation, control the ball and clear it ect.

 

https://streamable.com/v7uug

[nikolaMo]

Why the hell can't the wingers in this game square the ball to the ongoing lone striker?? I get this issue almost every match where I'm through on a counter my winger cutting inside from a flank and my striker following him and every Frickin time he decides to shoot at the goalkeeper instead of squaring it for an easy tap in.  

[Mitja]

Game was in faaar worse state last year at this time. But that being said ME is alfa and omega of fm and I can understand people who cant play the game because of ME issues. Im one of such too. And I must agree having to wait months to play can get really frustrating. I only have time during winter for example.

[yezzko]

Some ME feedback:

- Goalkeepers are still not able to distribute the ball quickly (I dont know for how many years it is this not rectified, probably low priority). It is especially infuriating when you are losing and goalkeeper takes 4 touches and waits for opponent to come close before relasing the ball up the field while ignoring teammates nearby

- Unnecessary header when in lots of space and under no pressure (have you seen the headed cross?)

- Fullbacks running 10+ metres past the offside line when running into space (its beenin the game for many years too)

- Defenders hiting the ball upfield disregarding the position of strikers/wingers, the just hoof it randomly

- Wide players not able to cut inside after making a long run by the line, they always kick the ball against the bystanding defender instead of trying to cut inside

[Mitja]

4 minutes ago, nikolaMo said:

Why the hell can't the wingers in this game square the ball to the ongoing lone striker?? I get this issue almost every match where I'm through on a counter my winger cutting inside from a flank and my striker following him and every Frickin time he decides to shoot at the goalkeeper instead of squaring it for an easy tap in.  

Maybe time to post few good examples to the bugs fourm, they said they are looking for those.

[roykela]

When i used to be a coach (not professional), regarding CDc and also touches on the micromanaging of players, it is exactly how i taught my defenders how to play.
It was, however, contextual.
If there was a long, high ball being attempted over the top i instructed them that i only wanted one specific player to drop deep(-er) to handle the ball; while communicating with the GK.
Rest of the defenders were to be in specific locations, also depending on the amount of pressure put on them, how many were coming up for the pressure  and where they would put the pressure, to
be available for a simple pass or be as defensively solid if we were to lose the ball. Playing as a defensive unit.
I would drill players in specific given situations (not all situations, of course) what the best course of action would be.
I had similar instructions to through-balls being played from high up- and middle of the final third.
One specific player acted as a CDc.

If i didn't give those instructions the "wrong player" seemed to always be going for the ball and we became extremely exposed to attacks.
My midfielders were the main positions closing down the opposition while the defence would only step up if needed, in order to maintain an organised formation in the back.
That way it was much harder to break us down.
I did that with two different teams and it was rather successful.
Although i am a 4-4-2 guy the formation in FM would probably regarded as 5-2-1-2 WB.

Attacking-wise i gave them a lot more freedom to use their own skills and creativity. Even though they were far from the best players on paper that seemed to suit them the best.

So for me, that CDc is reflecting my own approach to real life football very well. That's how my teams were playing it and they were playing it well.
That's only my little input about the CDc irl/FM.

[Mitja]

And Id like to add I didnt notice sooo many 1on1s in 5 games I played eith the new ME and three were scored from maybe some 15-20 tries, of which only 5,6,7 eere in really good position to score. There are far wirse things than 1-1s, like too many shots in general, some games feel like theres **** in every attack. Decison making like schoolboy clearences, not cutting inside and not passing the ball in key moments. But there are also good improvements. And I agree with people reaction time is seriously flawed not only with defenders in 1-1situatiibs but in general. It holds down the defensive part.

[KUBI]

For those who think that the game is unplayable: You can have both, enjoy it and criticise it. 

Ignore the scratch on your face or concentrate always on it can make you happy or depressed. 

My honest opinion is that this game will never be perfect, because it is trying to simulate reality. Reality contains rules, human behaviour and coincidence. And errors are also an important part of football and humans. 

Rules are easy to implement, but human behaviour is not. Finding the balance for typical errors and coincidence is very difficult.

If we look at one part of the ME and tactic - how to select the match squad. It's maybe easy at the first glance, but if you think about all possibilities from rotating, morale, pitch, weather, opposition, tactic, next match and so on, it could become a nightmare to code it. The ME contains probably hundreds such little nightmares, when you think about just one situation and all the possibilities. A player error could be realistic, another one a bug and people could argue about it for hours. 

So try to enjoy this game and still try to help to make it perfect, both is possible. But to rant on the forums and to attack the developers does not help anyone and does not make the game better.  

[Jesper9000]

15 minutes ago, KUBI said:

For those who think that the game is unplayable: You can have both, enjoy it and criticise it. 

Ignore the scratch on your face or concentrate always on it can make you happy or depressed. 

My honest opinion is that this game will never be perfect, because it is trying to simulate reality. Reality contains rules, human behaviour and coincidence. And errors are also an important part of football and humans. 

Rules are easy to implement, but human behaviour is not. Finding the balance for typical errors and coincidence is very difficult.

If we look at one part of the ME and tactic - how to select the match squad. It's maybe easy at the first glance, but if you think about all possibilities from rotating, morale, pitch, weather, opposition, tactic, next match and so on, it could become a nightmare to code it. The ME contains probably hundreds such little nightmares, when you think about just one situation and all the possibilities. A player error could be realistic, another one a bug and people could argue about it for hours. 

So try to enjoy this game and still try to help to make it perfect, both is possible. But to rant on the forums and to attack the developers does not help anyone and does not make the game better.  

@KUBI It is so tiresome with moderators and fanboys that try to deny the issues that is in the match engine, or ask people to accept the game as it is. 

The patience is long gone, when we have to wait weeks for a fix. 

I don’t mind small issues, and a few human errors by the players is a part of it, but the game is broken, when every game is a 1v1 game, where your tactic has no influence on the final score. 

[KUBI]

Gerade eben schrieb Jesper9000:

I don’t mind small issues, and a few human errors by the players is a part of it, but the game is broken, when every game is a 1v1 game, where your tactic has no influence on the final score. 

You generalise something that works for some users well for others not. I think this could be an example of one part a bug and one part tactical errors. The game is not broken, but there are still some issues that need to be fixed and tweaked. 

[Jesper9000]

2 minutes ago, KUBI said:

You generalise something that works for some users well for others not. I think this could be an example of one part a bug and one part tactical errors. The game is not broken, but there are still some issues that need to be fixed and tweaked. 

@KUBI Have a look around on the forum as well as on Steam, and you will see this is a general problem. 
 

I am happy to hear that you enjoy the game, but for me and others it is broken, and it will for sure be my last year with Football Manager if the fix isn't released soon. 

[Svenc]

2 hours ago, Sanel said:

You always type so much without actually explaining or meaning anything, it amazes me.
 

It's all about the impact of shooting locations.  As well as how good a chance a header may be compared to a shot (in particular a header under pressure from the set piece). Which unfortunately MOTD and Sportschau will teach one little about.

tldr; Not all 1vs1 seem to be equal opportunity, neither pre- nor post patch. Some of them may be bugged, some less so. For all the stuff that needs patching ASAP there is also players misjudging the chances they create. They oft do not even notice when the majority of the stuff they create in dangerous Position is purely from the set piece, e.g. their tactics fail to consistently carve open a defense. Admittedly the game doesn't help them much on that. Actually, they are forced to go into the analysis, open the shot map, and watch the stuff again back to back and make notes (or Paint jobs, as in my case). That's a painful excercise for what are, on all accounts, fairly basic things when trying judge how well things were truly going.

Edited December 13, 2019 by Svenc

[KUBI]

vor 1 Minute schrieb Jesper9000:

@KUBI Have a look around on the forum as well as on Steam, and you will see this is a general problem. 
 

I am happy to hear that you enjoy the game, but for me and others it is broken, and it will for sure be my last year with Football Manager if the fix isn't released soon. 

People read about a "fatal error" and in the next game they just concentrate on this. But you can be sure that the dev. are looking into it, but there is no easy fix for ME related issues, especially as this could to be one that is connected to certain tactical setups and not "general". 

[Mikke]

8 minutes ago, Jesper9000 said:

@KUBI Have a look around on the forum as well as on Steam, and you will see this is a general problem. 
 

I am happy to hear that you enjoy the game, but for me and others it is broken, and it will for sure be my last year with Football Manager if the fix isn't released soon. 

If you mean 1v1s, then it is not a general problem. I'm certainly not the only one who doesn't have an issue of too many 1v1s, so for me and others the game is not exactly broken. Which also means that this is at least partly a tactics problem.

Edited December 13, 2019 by Mikke

[srvngrc]

3 dakika önce, Jesper9000 said:

@KUBI It is so tiresome with moderators and fanboys that try to deny the issues that is in the match engine, or ask people to accept the game as it is. 

The patience is long gone, when we have to wait weeks for a fix. 

I don’t mind small issues, and a few human errors by the players is a part of it, but the game is broken, when every game is a 1v1 game, where your tactic has no influence on the final score. 

Totally agree. We don’t care about small things. But a few bugs like 1v1s and long balls over defence (actually i think this two are related. long balls create too many 1v1s and ME balancing scorlines by most of 1v1s missing)

And people generally not criticise the bugs, most of us criticise SI’s behaviour. SI don’t care about us. We should be informed about what the dev team working on and when we get a new update. I’m not saying give us an exact date but at least a time interval should given. 

[roykela]

9 minutes ago, Jesper9000 said:

@KUBI It is so tiresome with moderators and fanboys that try to deny the issues that is in the match engine, or ask people to accept the game as it is. 

The patience is long gone, when we have to wait weeks for a fix. 

I don’t mind small issues, and a few human errors by the players is a part of it, but the game is broken, when every game is a 1v1 game, where your tactic has no influence on the final score. 

They are not denying issues at all. They acknowledge them. If people don't know that it's either unknowingly missed or selectively missed.
There are definitely issues but the game is far away from broken.
Playing the game a lot here and i do not have a 1v1 game every game.

The slightest tweak of my tactic can have a big influence in some games and a minute influence in others.
If the tactics wouldn't have any influence on the final score i wouldn't have had to change my tactics at all. The tactic i started out with would still be as effective as the tweaked one i'm using.
It wasn't. I had to tweak it, get the right players in the right positions and then tweak it some more. Then i have to tweak it every match as well.

[Tony Wright 747]

2 hours ago, KlaaZ said:

Why would a defender on cover be an unrealistic measure to counter balls over the top though? The rest of your comparison is quite nonsensical, sorry. using a CD(C) is a perfect tactical measure. Using your hands is not. 

You don't have to play with a defender on cover by the way. You can also employ the offside trap, put more pressure on the people lunging it over your defense to make sure the passes are off or other things. 

And as Rashidi said, it helps to keep in mind that this is still a video game. And that it will never be an accurate representation of football since:

1) Real life football is too random and complex to replicate, especially for the AI.

2) The moment the ME gets too realistic, they'll lose a huge part of their sales/income because it will become pretty much impossible to become successful with a smaller club (or even a bigger one) for 99% of us.

I would love the challenge of No 2

[KUBI]

vor 2 Minuten schrieb Tony Wright 747:

I would love the challenge of No 2

You can simulate that a bit, by moving to another challenge/club after two successful seasons. But for the majority of the players it seems to be more important to win the CL with their local club than to "act" realistic. 

[themadsheep2001]

20 minutes ago, srvngrc said:

Totally agree. We don’t care about small things. But a few bugs like 1v1s and long balls over defence (actually i think this two are related. long balls create too many 1v1s and ME balancing scorlines by most of 1v1s missing)

And people generally not criticise the bugs, most of us criticise SI’s behaviour. SI don’t care about us. We should be informed about what the dev team working on and when we get a new update. I’m not saying give us an exact date but at least a time interval should given. 

If people want more discourse, then they would do well to start being more mature and less toxic. Every time Si try to interact, there's half a dozen people immediately laying with insults, to the point where SI themselves have to close the threads. Every single day, we're having to ban or infract someone because they can't show basic decency. I would love SI to be more vocal, but actually, looking at the state of this thread, I'm not even remotely convinced its worth their time.

[srvngrc]

2 saat önce, KlaaZ said:

Why would a defender on cover be an unrealistic measure to counter balls over the top though? The rest of your comparison is quite nonsensical, sorry. using a CD(C) is a perfect tactical measure. Using your hands is not. 

You don't have to play with a defender on cover by the way. You can also employ the offside trap, put more pressure on the people lunging it over your defense to make sure the passes are off or other things. 

And as Rashidi said, it helps to keep in mind that this is still a video game. And that it will never be an accurate representation of football since:

1) Real life football is too random and complex to replicate, especially for the AI.

2) The moment the ME gets too realistic, they'll lose a huge part of their sales/income because it will become pretty much impossible to become successful with a smaller club (or even a bigger one) for 99% of us.

Actually when the ME gets too realistic then real managers and clubs pay a lot to use it

[Tony Wright 747]

8 minutes ago, KUBI said:

You can simulate that a bit, by moving to another challenge/club after two successful seasons. But for the majority of the players it seems to be more important to win the CL with their local club than to "act" realistic. 

Yes I realise I am in the minority Kubi, but the more realistic the better for me.  To me taking a team from the national league to the CL in a few seasons is not realistic.  In my FM16 save Euro league group stages with Randers, survival with Toulouse and Canadian champions and midtable MLS with Montreal is about right

[srvngrc]

1 dakika önce, themadsheep2001 said:

If people want more discourse, then they would do well to start being more mature and less toxic. Every time Si try to interact, there's half a dozen people immediately laying with insults. Every single day, we're having to ban or infract someone because theyc an't show basic decency. I would love SI to be more vocal, but actually, looking at the state of this thread, I'm not even remotely convinced its worth their time

They didn’t try to inform people. Never. At least a single time SI should try to inform people. Just a few words. “We’re trying to fix bla bla bla and working hard to make it ready before new year or whatever. Thank you for your patience”

I think people would be more positive and constructive with that. 

Uncertainty makes people nervous imo