Football Manager 2020 Feedback Thread

[robinthebest]

2 hours ago, HUNT3R said:

As usual the truth is probably somewhere in the middle. While there are ME issues, there are also improvements we can make. None of us are perfect tacticians/managers.

@robinthebest - cut out the sarcastic and snide remarks. We've repeatedly said this and asked people to just be civil. It's exactly why you were banned last time.

do you think I care about getting banned on the forum?

 

what I care is about the game, we are the customer, we spent money on the game, there are lots of people complaining about the game, and this is probably the biggest backlash the FM series ever faced in recent years, and we are not getting feedback from the company, is this how they should do business, they don't even do PR stuffs?

 

Most games no matter single players or multiplayer nowadays even do hot fix if the feedback go terribly wrong after patches roll out, but what do we get here? We get none feedback other than people telling us our tactic is the main issue and the game developer themselves do not even try to admit there are issue and they are to blame?

 

Most of us want replies, we want to know how the progress go, are they planning to adjust this or that, but they just kept us from the dark, so whats the feedback thread actually do then? If they are not going to reply us, the customers anyway?

 

Football Manager is the only game SI currently produce on the market, if they are not trying to improve, there are no other games to support SI, SI is not EA, i don't believe SI has unlimited cash like EA, so they better start to listen to their customers and give transparency, if they wont improve that part of the business, I'm not so sure things will go so well like before.

Edited December 13, 2019 by robinthebest

[HUNT3R]

1 hour ago, robinthebest said:

what I care is about the game, we are the customer, we spent money on the game, there are lots of people complaining about the game, and this is probably the biggest backlash the FM series ever faced in recent years, and we are not getting feedback from the company, is this how they should do business, they don't even do PR stuffs? This is probably the biggest backlash the FM series ever faced in recent years.

There's plenty of feedback. That's how we know about the 'known issues' that SI are working on. It's the case for the 1 v 1s and long balls past/over the defence etc. We as mods also relay these messages in other areas like here in GD.

1 hour ago, robinthebest said:

Most games no matter single players or multiplayer nowadays even do hot fix if the feedback go terribly wrong after patches roll out, but what do we get here? We get none feedback other than people telling us our tactic is the main issue and the game developer themselves do not even try to admit there are issue and they are to blame?

Again - there is feedback. There are issues marked BY SI as under review and that they're working on it. Users who took the time to properly report issues in the bugs forum, for the most part, had responses from SI. In some cases SI even went further to explain how careful they have to be. You can't just make knee-jerk changes in a hurry. Anyway, if you want feedback - ask? Instead you're resorting to insults, mocking and trolling and whether you care or not, that will land you with infractions. I can even point you in the direction of SI posting that an issue is known and being worked on.

--

Also, as I said, the truth is probably somewhere in the middle. Yes there are issues with 1 v 1 conversions. It's lower than you'd expect. At the same time, especially in some tactics, there are far too many created. So that is the ME, but tactics can also make it (and by it I mean created 1,000,000 1 v 1 chances and maybe even ONLY creating those chances) worse or better. Whether it improves the tactic or whether the conversion rate stays the same, but you see fewer 1 v 1s and so fewer misses, which make your enjoy the game a bit more, I don't know. Regardless there are legitimate ME issues too.

Apart from that, as you've read from some of the other's feedback, they're not having much of an issue. So the question is - why are you having it and they're not? Both can be true. Why not compare the two situations? Maybe there's an improvement you can make, tactically, that helps? Whether a tactic adjustment or a personnel choice etc. maybe something can improve your experience? Fact is, we've got this ME for now and you ARE having issues, so -for now- try and find a way of getting more enjoyment out of your game?

I'm just saying hear people out who have a different view.

[SebastianRO]

@HUNT3R Regarding the 1v1s, why do we even bring up the tactics conversation ? If you get to have 1v1s, it means that tactically you are doing your job, you are getting your team into favorable positions. Regarding general ME issues (non related to 1v1s), why do we talk about tactics ?! If it's a legit ME issue (and GOD knows there are plenty going around with FM20), why do "we" tell people that they can mitigate by doing any tactical tweaks ?

As a player, you should be using the tactics that you want, exactly how you want, against who you want and the ME will be the referee of that (if you have done well or not). But if the referee is a bad referee .... what are we even talking about ? Should we change our playstayle, just because we are facing a bad referee ?

17 minutes ago, HUNT3R said:

You can't just make knee-jerk changes in a hurry.

Agreed, you can't. However, it is not the custmer's job to accept that his product is flawed and it can't be fixed asap because the fix is too complex. It just sounds out of this world, honestly. On top of that, I 100% disagree with this statement because it has been proven wrong. Last year, in FM19, after people have complained about strikers not moving off the ball enough and being useless in general, SI has aknowledged the matter (i believe it was around March or April) and said this exact same thing: "Issue is too complex, can't be fixed in FM19 without causing other damage, but it will be gone by FM20". - i am paraphrasing here. FM20 is here and guess what ?! Striker movement has improved, but it's still far and far away from where it should be. So no, we can't expect knee-jerk changes, but aparently 9 months isn't enough either. What are we going to do here doc ? What's the action plan ? Shall we just suck it up and hope for the best ? Shall we just give up and play other editions ? Shall we look at exploits which might mitigate the ongoing issues ? None of the options sounds good and you know why ? It's because the burdedn is on US, who PAID for this game, especially because we have been in love with this franchise for more than a decade.

Look, we can all see it's broken. Is it as broken as some people make it sound ? it doesn't even matter, it's irrenevant. The only thing that matters is that it's broken (define that how you wish). But for the love of God, stop telling people "you can make the issue go away if you decide to play this style or that style or make x tactical change" because even if it's true, you shouldn't have to be locked into some tactical frameworks just to "mitigate" current ME issues.

[HUNT3R]

9 minutes ago, SebastianRO said:

But for the love of God, stop telling people "you can make the issue go away if you decide to play this style or that style or make x tactical change"

I haven't said that at all.

[davehanson]

17 hours ago, Dagenham_Dave said:

Playing my classic save with Hibs more than the main game at the moment, and since that version was updated to the current match engine, I'm loving it even more. In my last two games my new signing CF has smashed in four 1v1 chances. Which is nice. The only criticism I'd give is that balls over the top seem to be increased in frequency, but then my last opponent (home and away vs Young Boys in the Euro Cup II) played a very high line in both matches, so it could be a result of that. I didn't see many balls over the top against my own defence. 

The matches play out better now, and I've noticed players making a few more mistakes which is actually what I wanted to see more of as it's more realistic. Especially in Scotland 

Can you upload pkm's of the one v ones please so we can have a look to see whats different in your chances compared to ours? Might give some of us a better idea of where we are going wrong.

[XaW]

9 hours ago, robinthebest said:

well my banned period on here has gone, and i tried to start a new season in the prem again this few days, first game of the season versus Everton.

Conceded 6 CCC which is 5 long ball over the top and 4 of them is Sigurdsson with 10 acceleration runs past my defenders just to put it wide 

 And 1 of them is Richarlison misses, does the ME team see the game how many over the top balls do a team usually concede

I immediately shut down my game after, it has no realism at all 

By the way, I play with anchor man, and deep back line and balanced mentality 

I had a couple of instances with players running through after long balls over the defence. Turns out, there is a very easy fix for this, use a quick central defender and set him as a Central Defender - Cover. Now, he has 5-10 meter every time, and since he is quick he mops up every attempt at balls over the top.

[robinthebest]

5 minutes ago, XaW said:

I had a couple of instances with players running through after long balls over the defence. Turns out, there is a very easy fix for this, use a quick central defender and set him as a Central Defender - Cover. Now, he has 5-10 meter every time, and since he is quick he mops up every attempt at balls over the top.

this is why i dont play anymore, why do I have to accommodate myself to an obvious ME issue, that ruined the fun of playing FM, playing the formation i desired, playing the way I want, i used to play with 4231 all the time, concede to counter attack sometimes, its fine

 

but now every game just concede 5-6 long ball and 1v1, although they couldnt score, i couldnt enjoy it anymore.

The system tried to keep the scoreline normal by nerfing 1v1, but long ball over the top happens so often, thats why we see so many missed 1v1, that's the problem of the ME, they compensate long ball bug by making 1v1 failing

[Jesper9000]

This years release is the worst in Football Manager history. First the game was unplayable in 3 weeks due to lag, and now it is unplayable due to the 1v1. I have minimum 6-8 1v1 situations in every game.  

[rdbayly]

I was very disappointed with the latest ME update, so decided to take a short break rather than continue to spend my limited gaming time in a state of perpetual frustration. Having consumed a massive amount of tactical content and conversations on the forums, I thought I would revisit the game and take my time to develop a tactical system that was properly thought through. I concede that prior releases have perhaps made me a bit lazy in terms of being a little gung-ho with a one-time set-up / plug-n-play approach.

I decided to go with a lower tempo, short passing system, focusing on showcasing the passing ability of my central midfielders. I wanted a fluid system with multiple routes to goal via runners from deep. I chose to attack slightly narrower to keep players closer together, plenty of of support duties to encourage passing triangles in each third of the pitch. One facet of the system is to build play on right to draw the opposition over, then quickly switch to the other flank to exploit vacated space. I play with a positive mentality to compensate for the lack of attack duties, with lower line of engagement. This is to exploit the pace I have in wide areas when I win the ball in the middle third. I went with a standard defensive line with a DM to offer additional protection.

3 months in and we're top of the league. I must be delighted, right? Nope. 

The experience is still among the most bizarre I've ever had on any FM iteration. This is a far cry from the BETA builds, which had their issues, but felt far more balanced. Rather than the more measured, controlled approach I am seeking; matches appear unhinged and chaotic. The ball is flying around the pitch like it's being fired out of a cannon. A huge chunk of goals I both score and concede are the result of lumped balls over the top from defenders. These Hollywood passes are frequently coming from the boot of players who are the least technically able to pull them off consistently. This is the literal antitheses of the football my tactic is set up to achieve. I have to ask the question, am I really needed here? Personally, my 1 v 1 conversion rates aren't that bad (maybe 30%?). The primary issue is the over-representation of balls over the top leading to big chance creation (to the detriment of intelligent play in the final third).

At the other end, terrible central defender starting positions and reactions to long balls result in at least 1 or 2 big chances per match for the AI. I've watched countless replays on freeze frame to understand what the hell is going on. It seems to me that when possession is lost, defenders have zero risk awareness and do not anticipate / drop back / turn in readiness for a potential ball over the top. They often jog backwards for several seconds (?) whilst the ball is in the air, yet a striker has already turned and is accelerating to meet the pass. I tried moving my d-line back to the edge of my own area to compensate, and raising the LOE to cut out these passes, but with limited success.

I believe the concerns raised by users in terms of balls over the top and 1 v 1 scenarios are shared by the developers. With this in mind, I find is bizarre that users are often blamed and patronised when they report this. The ME feels well suited to lower league saves in terms of the football being served up. In my experience, the issues arise when you manage higher up with better players. I'm just not seeing the variety and ability on show that I should be.

Is this game playable? Yes. Is it broken? No. Is the ME falling short of where it could be? Yes.

In fact, in its current state, the ME has 2 star current ability, 5 star potential. 

   

Edited December 13, 2019 by rdbayly

[Tiger666]

10 minutes ago, rdbayly said:

The experience is still among the most bizarre I've ever had on any FM iteration. This is a far cry from the BETA builds, which had their issues, but felt far more balanced. Rather than the more measured, controlled approach I am seeking; matches appear unhinged and chaotic. The ball is flying around the pitch like it's being fired out of a cannon. A huge chunk of goals I both score and concede are the result of lumped balls over the top from defenders. These Hollywood passes are frequently coming from the boot of players who are the least technically able to pull them off consistently. This is the literal antitheses of the football my tactic is set up to achieve. Personally, my 1 v 1 conversion rates aren't that bad (maybe 30%?). The primary issue is the over-representation of balls over the top leading to big chance creation (to the detriment of intelligent play in the final third).  

This was my thinking last night. I hit a mid season slump playing my usual 4-2-3-1 and changed completely to a 4-3-3 playing slow, very short passing. All on defend or support, work ball in to box, play out of defence, balanced, sometimes cautious mentality. I was hoping to see a lot of possession, a lot of small patient passing probing for openings ending with a short through ball between defenders for my quick forward to pounce on and slot home.

I did see some of that but there were still far too many long balls being smashed about all over the place, sometimes fully across the other side of the pitch by players with no exceptional vision, passing or technique. A lot of long shots, many of which were just banged against the defenders legs. Still no real through balls apart from the long balls over the top which I assume the game treats as through balls. I was winning but that's irrelevant, it just wasn't the kind of football I wanted to play and it is infuriating to watch.

Edited December 13, 2019 by Tiger666

[herne79]

@SebastianRO @robinthebest @ everyone else

imo this isn't about changing your tactical style in order to avoid ME issues.  Are there ME issues?  Yes.  Have these been acknowledged by SI?  Yes.

What this can be about is two things:

1) Different tactical styles can sometimes increase or decrease the effect of apparent ME issues.  However in order to avoid these issues we may need to compromise our chosen style of play beyond what we are comfortable doing.  Some people might be ok with that, others won't be.

2) There is a secondary issue following on from that where it may be possible to make tactical alterations to reduce ME issues but still retain your chosen style of play.  For example if you want an attacking style with a heavy pressing strategy, rather than increasing the height of your defensive line you could leave it at the default position set by the Attacking mentality (which is still very high).  That may help give you better defence against long balls over the top while still retaining your overall chosen style.  Or instead of using an attacking wingback with a player who has the Trait to get forward often in such a system, change his duty to support or even defend - because your chosen Mentality and his Trait will still get him moving forward - but his duty will give him better solidity in defence.  Just a couple of examples.

So when people talk about tactics, in my opinion that's all they're talking about.  Nobody ever says "it's just your tactics" or "change your tactics" - it's only ever about having potentially different tactical options you could try which may still give you the same end result that you are after, but with none (or a reduction) of the apparent ME issues.  Not always possible, not always acceptable to some people, but sometimes there are different ways of doing things to achieve the same outcome.

[Jesper9000]

2 minutes ago, herne79 said:

@SebastianRO @robinthebest @ everyone else

imo this isn't about changing your tactical style in order to avoid ME issues.  Are there ME issues?  Yes.  Have these been acknowledged by SI?  Yes.

What this can be about is two things:

1) Different tactical styles can sometimes increase or decrease the effect of apparent ME issues.  However in order to avoid these issues we may need to compromise our chosen style of play beyond what we are comfortable doing.  Some people might be ok with that, others won't be.

2) There is a secondary issue following on from that where it may be possible to make tactical alterations to reduce ME issues but still retain your chosen style of play.  For example if you want an attacking style with a heavy pressing strategy, rather than increasing the height of your defensive line you could leave it at the default position set by the Attacking mentality (which is still very high).  That may help give you better defence against long balls over the top while still retaining your overall chosen style.  Or instead of using an attacking wingback with a player who has the Trait to get forward often in such a system, change his duty to support or even defend - because your chosen Mentality and his Trait will still get him moving forward - but his duty will give him better solidity in defence.  Just a couple of examples.

So when people talk about tactics, in my opinion that's all they're talking about.  Nobody ever says "it's just your tactics" or "change your tactics" - it's only ever about having potentially different tactical options you could try which may still give you the same end result that you are after, but with none (or a reduction) of the apparent ME issues.  Not always possible, not always acceptable to some people, but sometimes there are different ways of doing things to achieve the same outcome.

@herne79 I know that it is a issue that is logged, and SI is working on a fix, but it has been too long now. First 3 weeks (4 weeks incl. the BETA) with match engine lag, and now this issue making the game unplayable for 2 weeks, so it has been 5 weeks now. It simply takes too long for a game that is released once a year, if it is not playable for the first 2 months. 

 

[Mikke]

14 minutes ago, Jesper9000 said:

@herne79 I know that it is a issue that is logged, and SI is working on a fix, but it has been too long now. First 3 weeks (4 weeks incl. the BETA) with match engine lag, and now this issue making the game unplayable for 2 weeks, so it has been 5 weeks now. It simply takes too long for a game that is released once a year, if it is not playable for the first 2 months. 

 

The game was released less than 4 weeks ago, so where do you get the 5 weeks from?

I feel that it's much harder to get the team to do what you ask them to, but it might also be that I played with a much better team in FM19. But still the matches feel a bit too random. If I play against a much better opponent, I can easily keep them from scoring and create chances myself, but they usually end up winning with pure luck - or so it feels like. I don't think the match engine is broken, it just feels a bit 'off', unlike FM19 did.

Edited December 13, 2019 by Mikke

[Karnack]

I have to change my earlier opinions regarding the ME from very positive to barely positive. I moved away from the top teams and have now been playing one season with Heerenveen and one with Aberdeen and the amount of CCCs are just extreme. A lot of the games there are more than 10 CCCs combined between the two teams. Despite this scores are rarely high, I just played a 4-4 match that apparently was the new record for most goals scored in the league.

Amount of chances in general seems very high, or maybe I don't have good enough knowledge about real world stats :P

But surely 123 chances created (Celtic in 3rd place) in 9 games is too much? Liverpool got 78 chances in 6 games. Barcelona 121 in 9 games and so on.

 

[pats]

1 hour ago, robinthebest said:

this is why i dont play anymore, why do I have to accommodate myself to an obvious ME issue, that ruined the fun of playing FM, playing the formation i desired, playing the way I want, i used to play with 4231 all the time, concede to counter attack sometimes, its fine

 

but now every game just concede 5-6 long ball and 1v1, although they couldnt score, i couldnt enjoy it anymore.

The system tried to keep the scoreline normal by nerfing 1v1, but long ball over the top happens so often, thats why we see so many missed 1v1, that's the problem of the ME, they compensate long ball bug by making 1v1 failing

The ME got wiser this year to the gung-ho tactics and duly punishing everyone for it. Just like in real life. You can do the same to AI too btw. If you see a high line, what will you do? Pass it around in your own half waiting for them to get back in shape so you can get hit on counter again?

The issue with ME imo is defenders not reacting to these balls in time. If that's improved, then it will be very interesting to watch matches in ME. I also think there should be less Toby Alderweireld and Virgil Van Dijk type passing in the game. At the moment my technique 6 defender can play a perfect pass sending my 11 acceleration striker through on goal against the opponent 13 anticipation and 14 acceleration defender. 

Edited December 13, 2019 by pats

[bahrami]

17 minutes ago, Mikke said:

The game was released less than 4 weeks ago, so where do you get the 5 weeks from?

I feel that it's much harder to get the team to do what you ask them to, but it might also be that I played with a much better team in FM19. But still the matches feel a bit too random. If I play against a much better opponent, I can easily keep them from scoring and create chances myself, but they usually end up winning with pure luck - or so it feels like. I don't think the match engine is broken, it just feels a bit 'off', unlike FM19 did.

You're not wrong, I've stopped playing this version of FM, the ME is a disaster and SI should really be offering us refunds if we want them.

[MBarbaric]

1 ora fa, XaW ha scritto:

I had a couple of instances with players running through after long balls over the defence. Turns out, there is a very easy fix for this, use a quick central defender and set him as a Central Defender - Cover. Now, he has 5-10 meter every time, and since he is quick he mops up every attempt at balls over the top.

this is another problem with ME. In real, all players in defensive phase are on cover/press roles automatically. It is the basis of defense whenever the defending team is in numerical parity/advantage. One player gets closer to the man on the ball while the other(s) get into covering position. it is stuff kids are thought at 13-15 years 

it is these flaws in the ME that show you in what state is the ME. Now, if the defense is in such a poor state that CL teams aren't aware of the most basic defensive principles, then you can imagine what is the state of the offensive phase in the ME where this isn't properly exploited. 

[TOMetz]

How will subscribing to the public beta influence my gaming experience? 

To give you the situation: currently it's unplayable for me.

[Sharkn20]

Well I must say something positive about the ME. It is very sensible to tactic changes and I love that, meaning that even the minimal modification it gets reflected straight away in the performance of the team. In my journeyman save, still in lower leagues, my defenders launch less balls to no one changing from BPD to CD. My IW gets more involved in the creation of the offensive phase by switching from At to Supp. PIs are very effective. TIs have clear reflecion of what I want to do. I have of course a lot of 1vs1 misses and too many balls over the top, but so far the potential of this ME is fantastic.

I hope they come up with 20.3 very soon, I wish before Christmas so I can enjoy the off-work time.

[robsfc]

Can someone tell me the latest game version and ME version? Just want to check my Steam updated correctly.

[Mikke]

25 minutes ago, Sharkn20 said:

Well I must say something positive about the ME. It is very sensible to tactic changes and I love that, meaning that even the minimal modification it gets reflected straight away in the performance of the team.

Curiously, I feel that FM19 in its final ME version was better in this regard. I agree that the tactic changes make a logical and visible difference, but there's also too much behaviour that my tactical choices would not allow. And this is in situations where there would be a possibility to do what my tactics ask for, but the players just ignore their instructions.

I suspect that it could just be that the learning curve of tactics is longer in FM20, meaning that it takes longer for players to learn my tactic. So maybe I should stick with it and see whether the situation improves, so far my patience has ended after 5-6 competitive matches.

[Jesper9000]

1 hour ago, Mikke said:

The game was released less than 4 weeks ago, so where do you get the 5 weeks from?

I feel that it's much harder to get the team to do what you ask them to, but it might also be that I played with a much better team in FM19. But still the matches feel a bit too random. If I play against a much better opponent, I can easily keep them from scoring and create chances myself, but they usually end up winning with pure luck - or so it feels like. I don't think the match engine is broken, it just feels a bit 'off', unlike FM19 did.

Sorry 4½ week. 

[Sharkn20]

14 minutes ago, Mikke said:

Curiously, I feel that FM19 in its final ME version was better in this regard. I agree that the tactic changes make a logical and visible difference, but there's also too much behaviour that my tactical choices would not allow. And this is in situations where there would be a possibility to do what my tactics ask for, but the players just ignore their instructions.

I suspect that it could just be that the learning curve of tactics is longer in FM20, meaning that it takes longer for players to learn my tactic. So maybe I should stick with it and see whether the situation improves, so far my patience has ended after 5-6 competitive matches.

Players have high WE / Decisions? If not they won't work towards the philosophy of the team or will do head scratching things.

Did u have be more expressive / more disciplined?

[TioPatinhax]

Anyone having issues with penaltys? Maybe its just with my team, but so far in 4, missed 4, with 3 different takers.

[XaW]

2 hours ago, robinthebest said:

this is why i dont play anymore, why do I have to accommodate myself to an obvious ME issue, that ruined the fun of playing FM, playing the formation i desired, playing the way I want, i used to play with 4231 all the time, concede to counter attack sometimes, its fine

 

but now every game just concede 5-6 long ball and 1v1, although they couldnt score, i couldnt enjoy it anymore.

The system tried to keep the scoreline normal by nerfing 1v1, but long ball over the top happens so often, thats why we see so many missed 1v1, that's the problem of the ME, they compensate long ball bug by making 1v1 failing

1 hour ago, MBarbaric said:

this is another problem with ME. In real, all players in defensive phase are on cover/press roles automatically. It is the basis of defense whenever the defending team is in numerical parity/advantage. One player gets closer to the man on the ball while the other(s) get into covering position. it is stuff kids are thought at 13-15 years 

it is these flaws in the ME that show you in what state is the ME. Now, if the defense is in such a poor state that CL teams aren't aware of the most basic defensive principles, then you can imagine what is the state of the offensive phase in the ME where this isn't properly exploited. 

I disagree. Balls over the top is a symptom of something wrong with the tactic. Of course, there could be issues with the ME, but that doesn't take anything away from the fact that, at least part of the issue, could be tactical on the user side.

I play with a high line and thus balls over the top are a way to counter my tactic, so having a defender drop a bit deeper is a tactical way of handling i legit issue that comes with my tactical choices. Now, I don't know how you play at all, but if you are playing with a high line, or with much pressure or any other aggressive tactic, then balls over the top are a good way to counter your instructions and a way the AI should respond. If you chose to ignore it, then the error lies in your hands.

I'll add once again, there could be issues in the match engine regarding balls over the top, but that doesn't take anything away from tactical choices that allow for this to happen.

And since a lot argue that 1v1s are ALWAYS missed, then balls over the top shouldn't be an issue anyway, right? /sarcasm

Edited December 13, 2019 by XaW
typo

[Mikke]

14 minutes ago, Jesper9000 said:

Sorry 4½ week. 

Make it 3½ weeks, not counting the beta.

[Novem9]

How to reset?

I have no any active transfers but there are yellow icon. 

[Mikke]

16 minutes ago, Sharkn20 said:

Players have high WE / Decisions? If not they won't work towards the philosophy of the team or will do head scratching things.

Did u have be more expressive / more disciplined?

Not many players with Decisions over 10, and all except one player in midfield/attack way under that (5-6). Could be a factor, then.

Didn't use more expressive/disciplined, never needed that in FM19 or any previous versions. Maybe it's time to try "more disciplined".

[Mitja]

16 minutes ago, XaW said:

I disagree. Balls over the top is a symptom of something wrong with the tactic. Of course, there could be issues with the ME, but that doesn't take anything away from the fact that, at least part of the issue, could be tactical on the user side.

I play with a high line and thus balls over the top are a way to counter my tactic, so having a defender drop a bit deeper is a tactical way of handling i legit issue that comes with my tactical choices. Now, I don't know how you play at all, but if you are playing with a high line, or with much pressure or any other aggressive tactic, then balls over the top are a good way to counter your instructions and a way the AI should respond. If you chose to ignore it, then the error lies in your hands.

I'll add once again, there could be issues in the match engine regarding balls over the top, but that doesn't take anything away from tactical choices that allow for this to happen.

And since a lot argue that 1v1s are ALWAYS missed, then balls over the top shouldn't be an issue anyway, right? /sarcasm

To me playing with one dc on cover would feel like cheating. Only team in whole planet using it? Never seen ai using it either. I wonder why are there roles and duties that ai will never use.

[XaW]

5 minutes ago, Mitja said:

To me playing with one dc on cover would feel like cheating. Only team in whole planet using it? Never seen ai using it either. I wonder why are there roles and duties that ai will never use.

I've not looked at enough AI tactics to know if they use it or not, but in real life you can see managers having one defender fall back more than the other. I'm simply stating there are tools available to use if anyone feels there are too many chances created from balls over the top, since the issue COULD be tactical.

[Jesper9000]

21 minutes ago, Mikke said:

Make it 3½ weeks, not counting the beta.

No - you need to include match engine lag from date of release. 

[ChrisCo]

14 minutes ago, Novem9 said:

How to reset?

I have no any active transfers but there are yellow icon. 

I have had a similar issue since the latest hotfix, might be best to raise in the bugs forum.

[Mitja]

2 minutes ago, XaW said:

I've not looked at enough AI tactics to know if they use it or not, but in real life you can see managers having one defender fall back more than the other. I'm simply stating there are tools available to use if anyone feels there are too many chances created from balls over the top, since the issue COULD be tactical.

Then its tactical for whole fm world except you. You dont think so?

[XaW]

Just now, Mitja said:

Then its tactical for whole fm world except you. You dont think so?

I don't understand what you mean?

[Sharkn20]

17 minutes ago, Mikke said:

Not many players with Decisions over 10, and all except one player in midfield/attack way under that (5-6). Could be a factor, then.

Didn't use more expressive/disciplined, never needed that in FM19 or any previous versions. Maybe it's time to try "more disciplined".

Also re-read the roles assigned. The ME is a lot more sensitive now.

[herne79]

22 minutes ago, Mitja said:

To me playing with one dc on cover would feel like cheating. Only team in whole planet using it? Never seen ai using it either. I wonder why are there roles and duties that ai will never use.

AI can and does use any role / duty / PI / TI whatever.

Interested to know why using a DC with a cover duty would feel like cheating?  All roles and duties in the game are based on real life interpretations, so why would using one be cheating?

[Svenc]

5 hours ago, SebastianRO said:

@HUNT3R Regarding the 1v1s, why do we even bring up the tactics conversation ? If you get to have 1v1s, it means that tactically you are doing your job, you are getting your team into favorable positions.

Actually, not all, but quite a few one on ones are anything but from favoribale positioins, which is (part) of the issue. They are taken from yards out, or as the wide players are through on Goal so easily, from tough angles which make it really easy for the keeper. Will do my stress test again on the weekend of how often 1on1s on actually FAVORABLE positions are converted. Prior the the pathc, it was a slight cut above 50/50. Over dozens attempts.

The red dots as well as the stuff bunching out widish (Players 8, 18, 27) are some of those  one on ones.





(The blue dots are again the headers from the set piece under pressure, so jack all created from actually Play in premium zones of the pitch in these Matches). Not all 1vs1 are euqal, and shouldn't be post-patch once properly addressed. The game were far better off ditching the CCCs and going with a half-way intelligent analysis of such shot maps instead in general.

 

Edited December 13, 2019 by Svenc

[Mikke]

20 minutes ago, Jesper9000 said:

No - you need to include match engine lag from date of release. 

Release date was November 19th, that was roughly 3½ weeks go. You can't just count 3 weeks and 2 weeks as 5 weeks, if those issues have existed at the same time. Although I never saw any lag issue, but that's another story.

[Rashidi]

20 minutes ago, Mitja said:

Then its tactical for whole fm world except you. You dont think so?

 

32 minutes ago, Mitja said:

To me playing with one dc on cover would feel like cheating.

So someone else has a different way of playing, including having one defender on cover which for years has been a strategy a lot of fm players have taken and now suddenly a different approach is cheating? Or his method of playing is not common? Sometimes we should allow other people to have an opinion without sounding condescending. No one has stepped in to question you or your method have they? And I don't think you speak for the rest of the world here so a statement like "the whole fm world" sounds pretty unrealistic here. 

We should allow others to exercise their views and opinions without denigrating them with condescending remarks.

[Mitja]

8 minutes ago, herne79 said:

AI can and does use any role / duty / PI / TI whatever.

Interested to know why using a DC with a cover duty would feel like cheating?  All roles and duties in the game are based on real life interpretations, so why would using one be cheating?

Never seen ai using cover duty even in three man defense where it makes little more sense. Why cheating? I said to me it would feel that way. And because ai wont be aware of it, hope it makes sense. 

[Mitja]

11 minutes ago, Rashidi said:

 

So someone else has a different way of playing, including having one defender on cover which for years has been a strategy a lot of fm players have taken and now suddenly a different approach is cheating? Or his method of playing is not common? Sometimes we should allow other people to have an opinion without sounding condescending. No one has stepped in to question you or your method have they? And I don't think you speak for the rest of the world here so a statement like "the whole fm world" sounds pretty unrealistic here. 

We should allow others to exercise their views and opinions without denigrating them with condescending remarks.

I repeat I said to me it would feel like that. If you or anyone else has no issue using smth that ai never uses, hey who is me to judge your way? But both of you missed my point, which is ai not being aware of the issue, hence whole fm world, the ai.

Edited December 13, 2019 by Mitja

[KlaaZ]

Just now, Mitja said:

I repeat I said to me it would feel like that. If you or anyone else has no issue using smth that ai never uses, hey who is me to judge your way? But both of you missed my point, which is ai not being aware of the issue.

You're assuming the AI is not aware. I've had plenty of games where I don't see any 1 on 1's because of those long balls because of how the AI set up. So that means it either is aware or knows to set up in such a way that it limits its vulnerability. 

[GPower88]

I thought I needed a new approach to the game because of how ridiculous and unnatural the game was playing. Glad other people are having the same issues so I wont waste my team scratching my head trying to work on a tactic where my defence wont have a mental breakdown at the sight of a high ball. 

Even watching the ai play each other is absolutely crazy, seeing games finish with 50-60 shots between both sides but a low scoreline. Every single chance coming from a long ball, yet a 5-10 yard pass into the path of a striker is non existent. 

Extremely disappointing how poor the match engine is. 

[Burnley92]

Hopefully SI give us an early Christmas present with a patch soon 

 

I'm currently 2nd in the table with Reading but can't enjoy the game with this match engine. It's so frustrating because it could be brilliant!

[Dagenham_Dave]

I have to thank SI again for giving me a different match engine to everyone else according to the folks on here. 

I've got my team playing some lovely football now, 1v1s are being scored at a realistic rate, tactical changes have an effect (positive and negative), shots on goal for me and the AI are all realistic, all types of goals being scored, etc etc. Even the balls over the top have been nerfed after a few tactical tweaks. The only criticism I would give it right now is that defensive reactions are still a bit off, however I'm unsure with this is an ME or an animations issue (or both). I've not enjoyed a match engine this much since the final FM17 one. 

 

[bleventozturk]

I updated my FM Touch demo version to the latest ME and further experimented. I think the state of the ME is very close to where it was at FM 19.1, but feels a little bit more like a BETA version in the way that things are not well balanced yet. Just like FM 19, I see so much potential, with some small but vital tweaks here and there.

More central play in final third accompanied by more short through ball attempts

Less over the defense long balls and less 1 on 1's in general (then balance that with higher conversion rate of course).

And this one is a must imo: Improve defenders' awareness and reaction time, which is so unrealistically poor at the moment (I still don't get it how SI and some fans here believe that defense has been much improved in this version)

I know those tweaks are easier said than done, otherwise SI would have done them already. But they have to be done to make the game playable for me. 

[hh123]

1 hour ago, TioPatinhax said:

Anyone having issues with penaltys? Maybe its just with my team, but so far in 4, missed 4, with 3 different takers.

yep i think its the general problem with goalkeepers over performing. I miss 3/4 regardless of penalty taker. They are always saved (havent had one miss the target) 

[bleventozturk]

5 minutes ago, hh123 said:

yep i think its the general problem with goalkeepers over performing. I miss 3/4 regardless of penalty taker. They are always saved (havent had one miss the target) 

Another issue is that they are always hit low. Something is broken there and I haven't seen SI acknowledging that yet. 

[Johnny Ace]

2 minutes ago, bleventozturk said:

Another issue is that they are always hit low. Something is broken there and I haven't seen SI acknowledging that yet. 

I reported that before the last patch, gonna do it again this weekend  

[bleventozturk]

Just now, Johnny Ace said:

I reported that before the last patch, gonna do it again this weekend  

Thanks mate. I guess it is not on their priority list, which is understandable given the more urgent matters that need to be addressed. But I hate it when small but annoying stuff like this does not get addressed in their final version. It happens sometimes and ruins my experience with that version of the game lol.