Football Manager 2017 Official Feedback Thread

[Firehouse]

So after all the trouble with promises, my struggle continues. But now different than before.

So, Huddersfield offered for Nick Powell, I rejected, and he became unhappy and asked for a conversation. Then I said that I need him now, but I will let him go if he wants at the end of the season. He accepts it, and everything seemed fine. Then in the same transfer window Huddersfield made another offer, and now he is unhappy that I haven't kept my promise. But I only promised I would sell him at the end of the season ffs.

FIX FIX FIX please.

[HUNT3R]

Just now, Firehouse said:

So after all the trouble with promises, my struggle continues. But now different than before.

So, Huddersfield offered for Nick Powell, I rejected, and he became unhappy and asked for a conversation. Then I said that I need him now, but I will let him go if he wants at the end of the season. He accepts it, and everything seemed fine. Then in the same transfer window Huddersfield made another offer, and now he is unhappy that I haven't kept my promise. But I only promised I would sell him at the end of the season ffs.

FIX FIX FIX please.

If you report it in the bugs forum with a copy of your save, SI can take a look at that specific issue. I'd assume they need a save from before you reject the 2nd offer, but maybe also before the promise even.

[Firehouse]

I don't have a save before, so I presumed that that won't help, but I can't be the only one having this problems considering this -

 - thread.
I've also started a thread in bugs forum regarding my previous issues with promises, along with save game, and it says it's currently under review. But this constant issues are ruining my long term save.

[Double Indemnity]

I think the squad strengthening promise bug is well-known to SI at this point. It ruined my first big save around release, but at least I was able to file a report for it.

[frustratedfreak]

I don't understand the point of having a feedback thread.

The game has all the same issues and bugs that its had for years and the treatment of posters for pointing these things out is downright rude.

Any thread that contain different views to SI employees or even Moderators are quickly closed so why bother pretending you have the slightest interest in what people have to say?

Excuses as to why the game has had so many bad reviews is embarrassing, you only have to watch one match to see just what a state the ME is in.

Its time SI came clean and either apologised for the state of the game, or at least tell us why its as bad as it is, lack of funding for instance or that its just not possible to make a better ME.

Don't get me wrong, for £25 - £35 you can get away with a save or two before it all starts to get on your nerves, but surely SI should be aiming for more than that.

Oh and stop pretending that the game cannot distinguish between the AI and the Human, that's just crazy talk as is the old "scripting" conversation, you can't keep saying its a myth when actual game programmers and code writers have already said its part and parcel of game making.

[RTHerringbone]

3 minutes ago, frustratedfreak said:

Oh and stop pretending that the game cannot distinguish between the AI and the Human, that's just crazy talk as is the old "scripting" conversation, you can't keep saying its a myth when actual game programmers and code writers have already said its part and parcel of game making.

I think you might need to lie down in a darkened room for a while. Maybe listen to some dolphin calls?

[frustratedfreak]

9 minutes ago, RTHerringbone said:

I think you might need to lie down in a darkened room for a while. Maybe listen to some dolphin calls?

Are you suggesting my post was a rant of some kind?

[GunmaN1905]

For the first time in like 10 years I'm on the verge of simply quitting the game and not playing it anymore.
I just can't withstand watching missed sitters from my team and opposition scoring from every other chance they get.
There's simply no solution for this. I can't fix anything when my supposedly top class players are missing clear cut chances every game.
And then I keep conceding goals from 30m out from players that have low long shots attributes.

It's also impossible to contain the game when opposition can score with a 30m assist to the box.

Then there's the fact that this game is completely momentum based. If you win like 5 in a row you're gonna roll through the whole season. But if you lose a couple of games it's gonna be a struggle whole season long (tested with the same team and tactics).

And as already mentioned, the squad strenghtening bug is ruining the game for me.

There's also this thing of getting like 60mil€ for the next season's transfers, but also being unable to relocate any of that budget to the wages budget.
All that while my club has more than 120mil€ in the bank.

Whatever. Completely game ruining all of this.

I'm currently playing with Newcastle, season 3 ongoing. After 3-0-1 at start it just looks like the game has decided it should be harder and that I should concede in 90+ whenever I'm in the lead. I also lost like 20 points last season to missed penalties, clear cut chances and conceded goals in 90+. Don't tell me it's my tactics because it's not. No tactics helps against conceding from 30m out  or conceding from freekicks against players with 10 in those stats. Funny enough, that never happens before 80th minute.

As for the momentum thing, I've had a crash during my beta save where I haven't saved for a good 3 months. I was doing real bad at the time, I thought it was my tactics because my team played terribly, unlike in the other save I'm ranting about.
Then I just reloaded after the crash without changing anything. At the end of the season there was a 20points difference in favor of the second try.
That simply cannot be right. Same players, same tactics and everything.

Sorry if you feel otherwise, but it's simply bad to have this game based on momentum, player morale and nothing else.
FM was a much better game before all of the player conversation and interaction thing was introduced.

And before you call me bad at the game, I've actually won CL on FM17 with Inter in 3 seasons, you can check it out in my Inter thread (shameless advertising).
And in the save before that one which got ruined I couldn't manage to do anything with the same tactics and players. Beats me.

 

THIS IS A RANT BECAUSE I'M FRUSTRATED DON'T READ IF YOU DON'T WANNA HEAR SOME RANTING.

TL;DR
Game shouldn't be completely momentum based because it's impossible for a team that's on a 4-0-1 start of the season with 1 goal conceded to completely collapse because of one stoppage time goal conceded and completely fall apart within a month resulting in  14 goals conceded over the next 5 games.
Class players missing CCC is also a huge issue, but attributes in the game are a complete joke in some cases.
Maybe if Higuain, world's biggest choker, has 20 finishing , then I shouldn't expect anything from strikers with 15-16? (inb4 hidden attributes)

[themadsheep2001]

The game isn't completely momentum based,

You've got rather angry about something that doesn't happen...

 

[Svenc]

27 minutes ago, GunmaN1905 said:

 

And before you call me bad at the game, I've actually won CL on FM17 with Inter in 3 seasons, you can check it out in my Inter thread (shameless advertising).
And in the save before that one which got ruined I couldn't manage to do anything with the same tactics and players. Beats me.

 

 

It's good that you linked this, because contrary to oft claims that the game were all about a) team talks b) tactics c) the meal that was served to players on match day it shows in parts that that player quality does factor in too, including "making up" for some tactics without a holding midfielder, and several with no link-ups between forwards and midfield, isolating of lone forwards. Full-backs on auto duties, which links their duties and thus the crucially forward movement to mentalities picked can also be an issue dependong on which. But then I did try to make Barcelona completely implode on previous, which included everybody sitting back and hoofing the ball to Messi. The thing with FM is still though that players won't link up themselves or close possible gaps, no matter how good or bad they are. It's just not coded that way.

Whilst the frustration is understandable, it also shows that you have never asked anyone for advice though, as nobody would have recommended to ever do the above much. [If the chances were as good as you claimed, you wouldn't have this.] That's for me the frustrating part. See, I'm somebody who wants the AI decision making improved. If it ever massively would be, you would just stop quit playing. You're not new, you have several hundred posts under your belt, which is for me the frustrating part. If the "experienced" face the same time and time again, how could the game ramp up things a bit without possibly alienating newcomers too?  :-( I still sympathize with that frustration you have too though, mind. The game can be argued is lacking some crucially feedback and explanations still, some of the feedback that is there can be unreliable, and had I not taken in stuff posted by better players than me (there is just always something better than anyone), I might have more of the above too still myself. Not suggesting otherwise and arguing you were a bad player. A bad player would just see the sack. But based on that, you can improve on some areas still, as some of the above can lead to some inconsistencies.

[GunmaN1905]

1 minute ago, Svenc said:

 

It's good that you linked this, because it shows is that player quality can make up for a lot, including some tactics without a holding midfielder in sight, and several with no link-ups between forwards and midfield. Full-backs on auto duties, which links their duties and thus the crucially forward movement to mentalities picked. But then I did try to make Barcelona completely implode on previous, which included everybody sitting back and hoofing the ball to Messi.

Whilst the frustration is understandable, it also shows that you have never asked anyone for advice though, as nobody would have recommended to ever do the above much. [If the chances were as good as you claimed, you wouldn't have this.] That's for me the frustrating part. See, I'm somebody who wants the AI decision making improved. If it ever massively would be, you would just stop quit playing. You're not new, you have several hundred posts under your belt, which is for me the frustrating part. If the "experienced" face the same time and time again, how could the game ramp up things a bit without possibly alienating newcomers too?  :-( I still sympathize with that frustration you have too though.

No holding midfielder? You probably assumed I use that roles while playing. I just put BWM there because it's Medel. I always have it set to DM-D duty. There's a download link for the tactics, even.
With Newcastle for example, I used the same tactics, just with standard mentality. With wingers having close down more instructions I eliminated the usual FM conceding from crosses issue. I also eliminated conceding from set pieces.

But I simply can't eliminate conceding in 90+ from ridiculous ranges nor I can eliminate my players missing CCC.
As I said, I'd be happy if my team was playing badly, because I'd know I had to fix stuff, but I can't eliminate good old nothing goes your way in 50-50 situations FM.

My bad if I made a fool of myself, but I've yet to figure out a way how to improve in these aspects.
This collapsing save aside, my opinion is that there's way too many CCCs in the game and it has to be compensated with the conversion ratio, otherwise there would have 5+ goals in every match.

Momentum complaint still stands.
Another reason why I didn't complain about tactics. It's impossible for my team to play perfectly in 5 games then just collapse in the next 5.
This also happened on the same save in the first season. Had like +15 in January and completely lost my lead within a month.

[Svenc]

28 minutes ago, GunmaN1905 said:

My bad if I made a fool of myself, but I've yet to figure out a way how to improve in these aspects.

 

You didn't! You win titles! Which might be the reason why you've never wondered if there were reasons for what you experience or if there may be possibly fixes -- on the occasion, or in a particular scenario. The CCCs aren't reliable and should be either kicked out the door or provide an in-game definition, I've been arguing that for years (even if they were comparable to Opta, Arsenal for instance missed close to 70% of theirs last season overall, and only a selected few forwards approach anything close to converting those at 50% rates). You should arguably be more concerned with the quality of your average shot, as an abundance of mediocre shots triggers players getting frustrated or nervous as those are more likely to be missed. It's no guarantee for a bad night at the office as soon as this kicks in, but this slightly lessens the chance that a decent shot which is almost always in there will be put away. It also can make opponents grow in confidence who "stand that bombardment", which is both something that's been coded in. That the game doesn't make up for a supposedly high number of high quality chances as such you could see on FM 2015, as that had even several AI sides averaging 5-6 goals a match for/against for a couple of reasons. Not over the course of a couple of matches. But the entire season. They couldn't defend, and if the ball still was cleared it was an immediate counter attack, due to some (hard-)coded positioning. Hockey scorelines had to follow, and so they did. This was subsequently patched out of that release later on though.

I often found what's behind that felt "momentum" isn't so much a Fifa/PES kind of super magic boost that makes a team to play catch-up, but players not spotting how dynamically AI managers approach matches. They can completely sit back and try to soak it all in, barely advancing their wide backs and several midfielders much, which means they are so focused on keeping it tight on their end that they can barely get a shot going, and only springing to life when they still see a chance. If so far you had never looked for advice you could do, there are forums, but not trying to force it upon you. Your frustration is genuine after all and worth writing down for SI to take it in also, and it wasn't my intent to make it sound lesser. It is genuine through and through, and not at all a silly rant. After all, you're not new, and as for SI they may want to really improve some of the feedback they've got in there. Don't want to repeat myself, but I've brought some up right on the last two pages. Those are fairly basic numbers still completely missing. And unlike any chance category, they aren't "subjective" stats too.

[ChelseaSince86]

Where do I find the dynamic league  odds changing through the season?

[puffascruffowitz]

On ‎11‎/‎9‎/‎2016 at 22:10, Sarin1 said:

Games too random as someone else put it. 

You tell the players to do something, and they just do whatever. 

Tweak every setting to have a player go in and win the ball, but if the opposition sits their line at a certain rate, he just wont. 
As in the opposition player has to cross an imaginary line, and then suddenly everything changes and your players wake up. 

Crossing has issues, as in the slowing down when their is space, waiting till that space is closed and then trying. 
Dribbling has issues, player has 20 dribbling and just dribbles into a player who cant tackle, loses ball. 

Shooting has issues. Decision making has issues. 

You are constantly trying to tweak so that the randomness of the ME isn't so random, and you are on the right "invisible magic lines" for certain stuff to happen. 
Rather then is all being consistent and you being able to build something the way you want. 

As far as players waiting until they're closed down to get in a cross happens all the time IRL. How many times do you wish a player would just whip a ball in instead of waiting what feels an eternity to measure up his cross.

And as far as dribbling...that happens. Doesn't matter if it's Messi, Hazard, or whoever they all lose the ball by dribbling into defenders several times a game.

[RobertPage]

Seems to be quite a lot of poor penalties. Haven't got any exact numbers from my own team in all comps but in the league these are some of the stats (only from teams thast have taken more than 2 pens).

Take/Scored

Liverpool: 7/4

 United: 4/1

Chelsea 3/1

Arsenal 2/1

Middlesbrough 2/2

Sunderland 2/0

West Brom 2/2

Thats only 11 out of 22 penalties that have been scored. I know my team has also taken a few and generally it feels like they're missing more than scoring

 

[warlock]

2 hours ago, RobertPage said:

Seems to be quite a lot of poor penalties

I'd agree with that. Just played a season with Man Utd; Ibra scored just three out of eight, and Martial, Rooney, Mata and Carrick (all rated at least decent for penalty-taking) did no better than 50%. What's worse is that it seems like every time a player misses a penalty, his confidence and ability slumps for the rest of the match, regardless of form, confidence, determination etc. I wouldn't call it a bug, but it definitely seems like a case for re-balancing in the ME.

[edk77]

I felt like the game is too momentum based too, and somehow scripted. The results are mostly consecutive wins, draws or lose no matter what kind of team I play with. Hardly seen evenly results.

Some results are almost fixed. I test this by reloading the match where I lost to a minor team, reload 10 times with different tactics, players and etc and I still lose. It could be coincidence if just once in a while but I tested this many many times and the results are shockingly consistent.

IMO, the chain effect of team form is too big, bigger than what you can do via tactics, players and etc.

[HUNT3R]

5 minutes ago, edk77 said:

I felt like the game is too momentum based too, and somehow scripted. The results are mostly consecutive wins, draws or lose no matter what kind of team I play with. Hardly seen evenly results.

Some results are almost fixed. I test this by reloading the match where I lost to a minor team, reload 10 times with different tactics, players and etc and I still lose. It could be coincidence if just once in a while but I tested this many many times and the results are shockingly consistent.

IMO, the chain effect of team form is too big, bigger than what you can do via tactics, players and etc.

Results aren't fixed/scripted or whatever you want to call it. Upload your save, but create a new thread if you do. Within a few minutes you will have forum users already winning matches. It's been done before, multiple times.

[frustratedfreak]

How do you compete with this?

Especially if you keep getting this...

Man Utd have already won an away game 6-0 this season where they created only 1 half chance(no ccc's)

Then there's the CL where we got the hardest draw possible...

It makes the game pointless when results are "scripted" like this and its why FM17 has been getting so many bad reviews.

[herne79]

15 minutes ago, frustratedfreak said:

How do you compete with this?

Especially if you keep getting this...

Man Utd have already won an away game 6-0 this season where they created only 1 half chance(no ccc's)

Then there's the CL where we got the hardest draw possible...

It makes the game pointless when results are "scripted" like this and its why FM17 has been getting so many bad reviews.

 

13 hours ago, frustratedfreak said:

I don't understand the point of having a feedback thread.

How ironic.

But anyway, if you opened your mind and let it, it would be a much better use of your time if you stopped the boring rhetoric and started looking for help in the Tactics forum as you clearly don't understand what's going on.

[frustratedfreak]

2 minutes ago, herne79 said:

 

How ironic.

But anyway, if you opened your mind and let it, it would be a much better use of your time if you stopped the boring rhetoric and started looking for help in the Tactics forum as you clearly don't understand what's going on.

You've just proven my point by suggesting I need help in the tactics forum.

The game will never get "honest" good reviews whilst it only maintains a fake attempt at ambiguity.

[HemHat]

5 hours ago, edk77 said:

I felt like the game is too momentum based too

 

I do partly agree with this. If I go on a losing streak I arrange a friendly against some local non league side, win 4 or 5 nil and then go on a winning streak in the league. 

Now that I’ve played the game for a few more seasons...My feedback, for what it's worth, is that SI should spend a lot of time improving the features that should be a key part of the game that don't, for whatever reason, work as well as they could.

Press conferences and interaction in general needs a massive overhaul as it is more tedious than spending an evening watching whatever the mrs wants on tv.

Promises, as many people have said, are just a waste of time. I had a player wanting to go on loan, I agreed and then spent the next month (it was in January) offering him to clubs on loan. Short of putting him in a mini skirt and standing him on a corner I couldn't have done more. He wasn't happy no loan deal was found so had a tantrum. No big deal really as I just released him instead but I don't feel I broke my promise. 

The reputation system that seems to drive the transfer market needs to be improved. No enquiries for a striker who got 60+ in two seasons isn't right. 

If feel if they spent a lot of time on this rather than cosmetic things like the social feed and a marketing thing like Brexit, and got the core features working well the game would be a lot more solid. Perhaps a touch of complacency due to a lack of challengers? FIFA improved massively once PES got their act together.

I hope people realise this isn’t a rant, rather just feedback as per the threads aim. I am enjoying this game and it is one of the best FMs I’ve played, but as in anything, there is room for improvement

For balance, I think the match engine is mostly fairly solid, the new staff layout is useful, the level of detail is, as always, staggering and is easily the games greatest selling point.

[HUNT3R]

52 minutes ago, frustratedfreak said:

You've just proven my point by suggesting I need help in the tactics forum.

The game will never get "honest" good reviews whilst it only maintains a fake attempt at ambiguity.

That's enough now. It's no longer feedback, but uninformed digs.

[Cougar2010]

48 minutes ago, frustratedfreak said:

You've just proven my point by suggesting I need help in the tactics forum.

The game will never get "honest" good reviews whilst it only maintains a fake attempt at ambiguity.

The game will never get an honest review from someone like yourself because you fail to accept that you are at fault.

When something goes wrong you blame the game rather than looking at what you could have done better to give your team the best chance of winning.

Don't get me wrong the rest of us also get annoyed & frustrated when we lose games we shouldn't but the difference is we don't come on the forum and complain, we review what we did, try to establish what went wrong & what we could have done differently.

If you upload the PKMs I'm sure some of us will watch them through & give you an honest assessment of each one.

 

The bottom line is you'll never be happy with FM as unless you change the way you view & approach the game.  It actually makes me sad that you can't see that & therefore can't enjoy the game others do.

[frustratedfreak]

6 minutes ago, Cougar2010 said:

The game will never get an honest review from someone like yourself because you fail to accept that you are at fault.

When something goes wrong you blame the game rather than looking at what you could have done better to give your team the best chance of winning.

Don't get me wrong the rest of us also get annoyed & frustrated when we lose games we shouldn't but the difference is we don't come on the forum and complain, we review what we did, try to establish what went wrong & what we could have done differently.

If you upload the PKMs I'm sure some of us will watch them through & give you an honest assessment of each one.

 

The bottom line is you'll never be happy with FM as unless you change the way you view & approach the game.  It actually makes me sad that you can't see that & therefore can't enjoy the game others do.

That's not true, if I was ever to see a balanced working ME I would happily spend the rest of my days lording up SI for creating such a thing.

I'd be happy to manage Barca and lose every game because "I" was doing something wrong because that's how football works.

This isn't even close to what we have in FM and this is solely the ME, I haven't even mentioned everything else that's wrong(and that's a lot of stuff, including stuff that has been broken for years).

It really is terrible and there seems to be no attempt to improve it, we just get a few new "pointless" features that are there to simply give the game the appearance of a new game rather than a player/data update which is all we keep getting.

[forameuss]

Always puzzles me when you get the people who complain about how the game's been "broken for years" and that it's just a player/data update, yet they still buy it.  Surely if you're that negative about it, you'd just try the demo, see it still wasn't what you wanted, then, you know, just not buy it.  

I know, crazy, right?   You'd think people would avoid the little things that seem to get them absolutely seething.

[frustratedfreak]

1 minute ago, forameuss said:

Always puzzles me when you get the people who complain about how the game's been "broken for years" and that it's just a player/data update, yet they still buy it.  Surely if you're that negative about it, you'd just try the demo, see it still wasn't what you wanted, then, you know, just not buy it.  

I know, crazy, right?   You'd think people would avoid the little things that seem to get them absolutely seething.

If the game was £100 or more you'd be right on the money, but like I've already said, for the £25-£35 lay out its worth a save or two to waste away a few hours where otherwise I would be either bored or napping.

[Cougar2010]

13 minutes ago, frustratedfreak said:

That's not true, if I was ever to see a balanced working ME I would happily spend the rest of my days lording up SI for creating such a thing.

I'd be happy to manage Barca and lose every game because "I" was doing something wrong because that's how football works.

This isn't even close to what we have in FM and this is solely the ME, I haven't even mentioned everything else that's wrong(and that's a lot of stuff, including stuff that has been broken for years).

It really is terrible and there seems to be no attempt to improve it, we just get a few new "pointless" features that are there to simply give the game the appearance of a new game rather than a player/data update which is all we keep getting.

I'm sorry but it is.

I'm always happy to help people that want help but clearly you aren't there yet so all I can do is say good luck

[herne79]

Lets get this thread back on topic now please.

Leave feedback here, ask for help in the appropriate forum, and if you want to discuss things create a new thread.

[RobertPage]

Leading the premier league (hugely thanks to appalling seasons for all the big clubs) and for not letting a team mate leave because an offer wasn't good enough, i have to put up with this. Rahman is worth £24 mil, rejected a bid for £29 and made it clear in an earlier conversation (when he asked to leave) that he would only be leaving if his release clause was met (£40 mill). I don't expect him to be happy, but the reaction from team mates here is over the top. You'd swear none of them had the ambition to win the premier league despite holding a 7 point gap over spurs (who also have a game in hand)

Edit: Just added an image of the offer which wasn't exactly out of this world considering his value

Edit 2: Held a team meeting and thankfully it was resolved for most players. Though still feel it was an over reaction by many in the first place

[King Costly]

I still think club reputation is factored in too much to players' decisions when signing for a new team.

I'm Weston-super-Mare and have got promoted to League One. I know our rep will still be relatively low but whenever I offer a contract to a free agent that is also wanted by another club, they always choose the other team.

I can understand players rejecting me for other clubs in our league but I had a few in the summer that opted to sign for League Two clubs for around the same wage, or even less, and the same squad status. I even had one choose National League club Gateshead over me! 

I think this is a part of the game that still needs tweaking as it's been a recurring theme for a few years now. Of course some players will choose more established clubs, even if they're in the league below, but a lot would also opt to test themselves at a higher level if the money on offer is similar.  

[Firehouse]

Everything said is correct. I would also add that they would always ask for a much larger wages from you than from the others. I bid 5k per week and they reject me, and then they go to a club in league below for 1,8k per week.  I can understand such thing if we are the same league or I'm league below, but in this money driven society it's not always a reasonable thing to see.

[Firehouse]

Have anyone encountered that sometimes when your player unlearn PPM (or player traits by new naming) it sometimes stays in his profile and his player traits panel?

My player unlearned ''Tries through balls often'', and then I made him learn to ''Try simple passes''. And now when I go to his profile I have both of this traits, which are opposite of one another.

[Cougar2010]

25 minutes ago, Firehouse said:

Have anyone encountered that sometimes when your player unlearn PPM (or player traits by new naming) it sometimes stays in his profile and his player traits panel?

My player unlearned ''Tries through balls often'', and then I made him learn to ''Try simple passes''. And now when I go to his profile I have both of this traits, which are opposite of one another.

Those aren't opposites and don't cancel each other out.

The only way a player unlearns a PPM is by them unlearning it, not by teaching them something else.

[Nacaw]

2 hours ago, Firehouse said:

Everything said is correct. I would also add that they would always ask for a much larger wages from you than from the others. I bid 5k per week and they reject me, and then they go to a club in league below for 1,8k per week.  I can understand such thing if we are the same league or I'm league below, but in this money driven society it's not always a reasonable thing to see.

I had something a bit like this. Player on 7k/week, wants a new contract with a payrise. Asks for 20k/week. This is too much for me, and I sell him. His new wages? 4k per week. There's a clear difference between what players accept from an AI team and a human team

[ScottGooner]

Not sure if this is the right thread for this but it's kind of feedback.

Just played a game, Bournemouth vs Southampton. Bournemouth wore their blue kit(is that their away or 3rd kit) and Southampton wore their home kit.

[KUBI]

12 minutes ago, ScottGooner said:

Not sure if this is the right thread for this but it's kind of feedback.

Just played a game, Bournemouth vs Southampton. Bournemouth wore their blue kit(is that their away or 3rd kit) and Southampton wore their home kit.

That's something for the bugs forum --> match engine. But they need a saved game before the match.

[ScottGooner]

1 minute ago, KUBI said:

That's something for the bugs forum --> match engine. But they need a saved game before the match.

Ok thanks for pointing me in the correct direction. Not sure if I have a saved game just before the game though.

[HUNT3R]

5 hours ago, ScottGooner said:

Ok thanks for pointing me in the correct direction. Not sure if I have a saved game just before the game though.

A PKM will help as well. Just mention that you don't have a pre-match save because they will ask for one too.

[Firehouse]

11 hours ago, Cougar2010 said:

Those aren't opposites and don't cancel each other out.

The only way a player unlearns a PPM is by them unlearning it, not by teaching them something else.

Well I had him unlearn, that was my first move with said player. Then the message came up saying he no longer feels the need bla bla, and then I made him learn new trait. But both now remain.

And I surely don't know how playing simple passes isn't the opposite of tries through ball often, as through balls surely aren't simple.

[Svenc]

1 hour ago, Firehouse said:

And I surely don't know how playing simple passes isn't the opposite of tries through ball often, as through balls surely aren't simple.

I think this is/used to be named "Plays short simple passes", which means this would be largely about range/directness. Somebody can correct me if I'm wrong I am really not sure. For through balls specifically there is the "tries TT/killer balls often" plus the "plays no through balls" PPM, specifically. There's a list of all ppms if you take a look into the editor or simply google them.

I have still have a qualm abuot PPMs too though, at very least an enquiry that has never been answered. What are anybody's opinion of those related to forward runs, i.e. "gets forward whenever possible"? To me that, as per the game, has been the definition of tactically ill-discipline. There's nothing quite as ill-disciplined as a player getting caught out of his position additionally times a match solely because of some naturally traits. The aforementioned is the Lucio PPM (and he had it on FM always, even though it didn't affect anything at CB -- luckily perhaps as I'm not convinced the ME defending would coupe with centre backs being all over the place rushing upfield to score ). The reason I'm asking is that there's some research that is more sensible towards this, like Germany. On many other leagues it's all over the place. Going with my interpretation, by which I stand from my playing experience, the only positionally "disciplined" left back Arsenal for instance have in all their squad is to be found in the reserves. There is nothing in those PPMs that can't be achieved with roles/duties, etc. from my book, and I'm always trying to imagine what Wenger would react like if he saw his players pushing up despite other encouragements -- let alone assembling a squad full of such players in the first place. As such, I find the sheer number of those a bit off. The research seems hugely inconsistent here anyhow.

Allow me this as a minor side note, it also seems that G.E. is back to his usual normal. Stuff is being tweaked so that the side can sit onto the ball week in week out no matter the opponent, which may partly be actually a huge ME / AI flaw too. Has never changed the fact that everything applied to getting there has almost always massively reduced the chance to convert and to score, this is United LvG at their least penetrating with a stubborn twist. The only hope left is that the numbers in the game taken as gospel would start show this some, which they don't and never did.

[penza]

On 11/30/2016 at 19:27, GunmaN1905 said:

For the first time in like 10 years I'm on the verge of simply quitting the game and not playing it anymore.
I just can't withstand watching missed sitters from my team and opposition scoring from every other chance they get.
There's simply no solution for this. I can't fix anything when my supposedly top class players are missing clear cut chances every game.
And then I keep conceding goals from 30m out from players that have low long shots attributes.

It's also impossible to contain the game when opposition can score with a 30m assist to the box.

Then there's the fact that this game is completely momentum based. If you win like 5 in a row you're gonna roll through the whole season. But if you lose a couple of games it's gonna be a struggle whole season long (tested with the same team and tactics).

And as already mentioned, the squad strenghtening bug is ruining the game for me.

There's also this thing of getting like 60mil€ for the next season's transfers, but also being unable to relocate any of that budget to the wages budget.
All that while my club has more than 120mil€ in the bank.

Whatever. Completely game ruining all of this.

I'm currently playing with Newcastle, season 3 ongoing. After 3-0-1 at start it just looks like the game has decided it should be harder and that I should concede in 90+ whenever I'm in the lead. I also lost like 20 points last season to missed penalties, clear cut chances and conceded goals in 90+. Don't tell me it's my tactics because it's not. No tactics helps against conceding from 30m out  or conceding from freekicks against players with 10 in those stats. Funny enough, that never happens before 80th minute.

As for the momentum thing, I've had a crash during my beta save where I haven't saved for a good 3 months. I was doing real bad at the time, I thought it was my tactics because my team played terribly, unlike in the other save I'm ranting about.
Then I just reloaded after the crash without changing anything. At the end of the season there was a 20points difference in favor of the second try.
That simply cannot be right. Same players, same tactics and everything.

Sorry if you feel otherwise, but it's simply bad to have this game based on momentum, player morale and nothing else.
FM was a much better game before all of the player conversation and interaction thing was introduced.

And before you call me bad at the game, I've actually won CL on FM17 with Inter in 3 seasons, you can check it out in my Inter thread (shameless advertising).
And in the save before that one which got ruined I couldn't manage to do anything with the same tactics and players. Beats me.

 

THIS IS A RANT BECAUSE I'M FRUSTRATED DON'T READ IF YOU DON'T WANNA HEAR SOME RANTING.

TL;DR
Game shouldn't be completely momentum based because it's impossible for a team that's on a 4-0-1 start of the season with 1 goal conceded to completely collapse because of one stoppage time goal conceded and completely fall apart within a month resulting in  14 goals conceded over the next 5 games.
Class players missing CCC is also a huge issue, but attributes in the game are a complete joke in some cases.
Maybe if Higuain, world's biggest choker, has 20 finishing , then I shouldn't expect anything from strikers with 15-16? (inb4 hidden attributes)

 

12

very good review, my mate and I keep playing online and we never are so frustrated .... I only played 30 hours of this game, never been so low! personally speaking I miss the days of FM12,13 or even 15 not too complicated and fun... its a game and now its way too complicated. I only seem to be doing well when the AI underachieves... 

[Svenc]

3 hours ago, penza said:

very good review, my mate and I keep playing online and we never are so frustrated .... I only played 30 hours of this game, never been so low! personally speaking I miss the days of FM12,13 or even 15 not too complicated and fun... its a game and now its way too complicated. I only seem to be doing well when the AI underachieves... 

What do you consider as "doing well"? I can do "reasonably well" by holidaying and letting the assistants taking over. Given the downloads you are posting in, I somehow doubt the bold parts, provided you are actually using them. They run circles around everything and get results no AI would achieve given the players, at least overall -- plug&play stuff typically isn't balanced, as the aim isn't "realistic" football but target ME/AI weakness, so a couple of odd additionally individually matches where a specific scenario isn't exploited is got to be expected (typically of the parking bus kind). Still, ? I'm not assessing using the downloads mind, a whole lot of players do it and it is a viable play style, but there's got to be a bit of a challenge for other players as well who don't use those too, otherwise they might as well let their screen savers run and gawk at that. :-P And I make no secret that I'd prefer the game to be challenging for long-term players too, as else it'd be a snooze fest for me likewise.

Unless your argument is that you are looking into downloads because you are struggling, mind, in which case it were useful if guys like you would be invited to playtest the thing, and for the lads to take a look at where you stumble. Just picking up folks of any kind from the streets, and letting them run with the thing. Because in the end, if it's in-house and out-house play testers being invited doing the stuff every year, this runs danger of becoming that inbred that only the "experts" by sheer experience would get through. And FM has already for sure created a whole plethora of vocabulary and quirks that has limited to do with actual football, even if the target actually is football fan (in general).

[gerry58]

On ‎30‎/‎11‎/‎2016 at 20:27, GunmaN1905 said:

THIS IS A RANT BECAUSE I'M FRUSTRATED DON'T READ IF YOU DON'T WANNA HEAR SOME RANTING.

TL;DR
Game shouldn't be completely momentum based because it's impossible for a team that's on a 4-0-1 start of the season with 1 goal conceded to completely collapse because of one stoppage time goal conceded and completely fall apart within a month resulting in  14 goals conceded over the next 5 games.

What? How old are you? Happened many, many, many times in the history of the game. There have been teams collapse  even in the last month of the season,  just a couple of weeks away from winning it all

[penza]

31 minutes ago, Svenc said:

What do you consider as "doing well"? I can do "reasonably well" by holidaying and letting the assistants taking over. Given the downloads you are posting in, I somehow doubt the bold parts, provided you are actually using them. They run circles around everything and get results no AI would achieve given the players, at least overall -- plug&play stuff typically isn't balanced, as the aim isn't "realistic" football but target ME/AI weakness, so a couple of odd additionally individually matches where a specific scenario isn't exploited is got to be expected (typically of the parking bus kind). Still, ? I'm not assessing using the downloads mind, a whole lot of players do it and it is a viable play style, but there's got to be a bit of a challenge for other players as well who don't use those too, otherwise they might as well let their screen savers run and gawk at that. :-P And I make no secret that I'd prefer the game to be challenging for long-term players too, as else it'd be a snooze fest for me likewise.

Unless your argument is that you are looking into downloads because you are struggling, mind, in which case it were useful if guys like you would be invited to playtest the thing, and for the lads to take a look at where you stumble. Just picking up folks of any kind from the streets, and letting them run with the thing. Because in the end, if it's in-house and out-house play testers being invited doing the stuff every year, this runs danger of becoming that inbred that only the "experts" by sheer experience would get through. And FM has already for sure created a whole plethora of vocabulary and quirks that has limited to do with actual football, even if the target actually is football fan (in general).

 

What I meant by well is qualify with Sassuolo to the champions league 1st season! the fact is that I could start a game with the same tactic, plug&play and even with serie A first season with Sassuolo but I could also get sacked (network game) its way too random, yes injuries are at play etc.. but in both games I didn't really have any and in the single player game the AI underachieved since juve only scored like 72 pts but in the network game they scored 95 pts (same manager thus same formation) where I am getting at is that I wish there was some kind of difficulty setting like with any other game, manager reputation is not enough even though that makes a difference. I appreciate the fact that people have a lot of times in their hands but I can only play 1-2 hours every few days but the issue is that I am not having fun anymore. Not blaming SI, they did a great job but for people who want to plug&play and win and play quickly which there are a lot of as the most popular tactics are the exploiting ones over the years it goes to show what people want. 

[forameuss]

16 minutes ago, penza said:

What I meant by well is qualify with Sassuolo to the champions league 1st season! the fact is that I could start a game with the same tactic, plug&play and even with serie A first season with Sassuolo but I could also get sacked (network game) its way too random, yes injuries are at play etc.. but in both games I didn't really have any and in the single player game the AI underachieved since juve only scored like 72 pts but in the network game they scored 95 pts (same manager thus same formation) where I am getting at is that I wish there was some kind of difficulty setting like with any other game, manager reputation is not enough even though that makes a difference. I appreciate the fact that people have a lot of times in their hands but I can only play 1-2 hours every few days but the issue is that I am not having fun anymore. Not blaming SI, they did a great job but for people who want to plug&play and win and play quickly which there are a lot of as the most popular tactics are the exploiting ones over the years it goes to show what people want. 

That's what football is.  You can easily get a sliding doors moment just from one game.  Behind door number one you lose and get sacked, behind the second you win and somehow go on a run that sees your stock rise and become successful again.  It's not really random, of course, but it can feel that way.  It's not going to be a calculator where action a always equals result b.  Would be pretty boring if it was.

[penza]

20 minutes ago, forameuss said:

That's what football is.  You can easily get a sliding doors moment just from one game.  Behind door number one you lose and get sacked, behind the second you win and somehow go on a run that sees your stock rise and become successful again.  It's not really random, of course, but it can feel that way.  It's not going to be a calculator where action a always equals result b.  Would be pretty boring if it was.

 

yeah definitely completely agree with you just wanted to say that this game just not having fun anymore thats it  

[Svenc]

2 hours ago, penza said:

Not blaming SI, they did a great job but for people who want to plug&play and win and play quickly which there are a lot of as the most popular tactics are the exploiting ones over the years it goes to show what people want. 

You could simply go into the official data editor and boost the players. I must admit I find little attractiveness in what you describe and demand. Getting Sassuolo into the CL should be firstly fairly challenging (some argue it isn't, probably not with the "right" downloads) and also depend on how other teams around them are doing as they are a fairly mediocre side, with teams such as Roma, Napoli, Fiorentina, probably even Inter far better equipped individually. That's also how if is in real football in particular the top leagues. You often have a surprise team from the fairly equally equipped mid-table sides entering Europe as the league standings are far more random than many give it credit for (football is a low scoring game, which means +/-10-12 points can be wholly down to randomness), however the top spots are usually taken by those that are just more consistent due to having much better players. Whilst I respect your own view, if it weren't a challenge that felt like wasted time to me personally, no matter if it's "just" two hours every few days or more or less. See where you're generally coming from though. At the end of the day there is one "global" difficulty for every player, which is determined by: how effective AI managers are (squad building at least long-term, short and medium term their tactics, in-match decision making, player and role allocation, squad and man management in general etc.) and how effective the player is. Plus naturally some players can take that inherent ambuigity of the game better, some less so. You can start at the same club and have a significantly different experience each.

However, in recognizing that different players want different things, this is also where that design challenge is going to be. The downside of having an artificially difficulty would be either artificially boosts, rather than everybody being level, and but the input making the difference in the long-run. Either that, or programming AI managers so that they make better/worse decisions based on the difficulty picked -- I'm currently playing and oldschool RPG that outside of the hardest "ironman" difficulty on "hard" simply makes AI controlled characters use their talent/ability more oftenly. Unfortunately SI have never dealt in those, as they seem to feel that they then were placed into a rut where they would face demands of an easy/hard option for everything, see also the complaints about injuries (which from all of my runs on FM 2017 seem at an all-time low). Maybe there's a reason for that, after all. And as you recognized, there is a sizeably crowd that want an easy ride -- it could be argued there would be demand for an outright win! button. At the end of the day this is still somewhat supposed to be a football sim. It's an escapism and a fantasy, but it only works if it's at least somewhat like the actual thing. Which springs the question why at least those players don't just boot up the editor, tbh. If somebody takes fun in exploiting the game/AI, which is viably! What's the difference to editing outright? SI themselves will neither cater to the one extreme end nor the other though, as that weren't commercially viable in its current form. If the game would be really that hard, nobody outside a selected few would buy it.

 

[penza]

4 minutes ago, Svenc said:

You could simply go into the official data editor and boost the players. I must admit I find little attractiveness in what you describe and demand. Getting Sassuolo into the CL should be firstly fairly challenging (some argue it isn't, probably not with the "right" downloads) and also depend on how other teams around them are doing as they are a fairly mediocre side, with teams such as Roma, Napoli, Fiorentina, probably even Inter far better equipped individually. That's also how if is in real football in particular the top leagues. You often have a surprise team from the fairly equally equipped mid-table sides entering Europe as the league standings are far more random than many give it credit for (football is a low scoring game), however the top spots are usually taken by those that are just more consistent due to having much better players. Whilst I respect your own view, if it weren't a challenge that felt like wasted time to me personally, no matter if it's "just" two hours every few days or more or less. See where you're generally coming from though. At the end of the day there is one "global" difficulty for every player, which is determined by: how effective AI managers are (squad building at least long-term, short and medium term their tactics, in-match decision making, player and role allocation etc.) and how effective the player is. Plus naturally some players can take that inherent ambuigity of the game better, some less so. You can start at the same club and have a significantly different experience each.

However, in recognizing that different players want different things, this is also where that design challenge is going to be. The downside of having an artificially difficulty would be either artificially boosts, rather than everybody being level, and but the input making the difference in the long-run. Either that, or programming AI managers so that they make better/worse decisions based on the difficulty picked -- I'm currently playing and oldschool RPG that outside of the hardest "ironman" difficulty on "hard" simply makes AI controlled characters use their talent/ability more oftenly. Unfortunately SI have never dealt in those, as they seem to feel that they then were placed into a rut where they would face demands of an easy/hard option for everything, see also the complaints about injuries (which from all of my runs on FM 2017 seem at an all-time low). Maybe there's a reason for that, after all. And as you recognized, there is a sizeably crowd that want an easy ride -- it could be argued there would be demand for an outright win! button. At the end of the day this is still somewhat supposed to be a football sim. It's an escapism and a fantasy, but it only works if it's at least somewhat like the actual thing. Which springs the question why at least those players don't just boot up the editor, tbh. SI themselves will neither cater to the one extreme end nor the other though, as that weren't commercially viable in its current form. If the game would be really that hard, nobody outside a selected few would buy it.

 

18

great reply to be fair, the thing is I don't find it too hard because if I put my mind to it I actually do very well but I guess sometimes I just want to plug and play and over-achieve without really putting too much effort in the game while in FM17 its very hard to do so and of course I recognise the fact that SI cannot cater to everyone's' needs and FM17 remains a really good game (its not a coincidence that that it is the only great football sim) in the market! but yeah just frustrated because in the older FM's I would still get a challenge but if I wanted to I could plug & play but now I cannot. Yes of course I can go and edit players but its not the same thing hehe

[Seb Wassell]

27 minutes ago, penza said:

great reply to be fair, the thing is I don't find it too hard because if I put my mind to it I actually do very well but I guess sometimes I just want to plug and play and over-achieve without really putting too much effort in the game while in FM17 its very hard to do so and of course I recognise the fact that SI cannot cater to everyone's' needs and FM17 remains a really good game (its not a coincidence that that it is the only great football sim) in the market! but yeah just frustrated because in the older FM's I would still get a challenge but if I wanted to I could plug & play but now I cannot. Yes of course I can go and edit players but its not the same thing hehe

May I recommend FMT for a more streamlined FM experience.