Football Manager 2021 - New Headline Features

[JordanMilly]

9 hours ago, h3nrique_SEP said:

the DEMO will be available at the same time than the BETA or just when the full game release?

Previously the demo has been made available at the same time as the full release.

[diLLa88]

Looks like I'm skipping this year's edition. the ME in 2020 is atrocious and looks the same this year.

[Steve8066]

i know there has/is a pandemic taking place but seriously, these are headline features? Absolute tosh.

[KiLLu12258]

so another year with no visual improvements on the match presentation.

 

i dont get it man.

[KiLLu12258]

vor 12 Stunden schrieb Exius:

Feeling disappointed... It seems, I'll skip this one like I skipped FM 2020. I hope the day will come when they announce a massively improved ME as a major headline feature, not these minor things nobody cares about. Every year I see a lot of cool ideas in feature suggestion threads and it seems that they choose the least interesting and important ones.

PS Can someone explain me, how does it happen that even in FM 2021 the pitch looks worse than in a 10-year old (!) FM 2011? Is this something so difficult to fix?

 

they need competition. otherweise they will sell us this graphic mess another 10 years and even downgrade it again.

 

Im really dissapointed when i see this. Besides that the new features are nothing for me.

Edited October 16, 2020 by KiLLu12258

[saihtam]

Love it when some post are deleted and your post rocks from new page to last page last post....

[ferrarinseb]

1 hour ago, Novem9 said:

little by little preparing us for purple field  I have no idea too, seriously. I tried to pay attention before and some members tried to convince me I'm wrong 

This is from this very thread. The 2011 one looks real pitch and give you the feeling of being in the match or you can call it natural. Where as in 2021 one it's just not natrual and gives the feeling of odd. The Environment of match day should be closer to 2011 one. 

[angelo994]

Honestly, seeing some of these comparisons with the older versions of FM really highlight just how shocking the graphics are. I do not understand how the game can go backwards and look so much worse after nearly 10 years. 
 

I love FM. One of my favourite games of all time. But really, it’s absolutely shocking. Just look at the pitches from FM11/14 to now...

[h3nrique_SEP]

8 hours ago, isignedupfornorealreason said:

Now i finally understand why i can only play in 2D since FM18

[jcw163]

Can goalkeepers commit fouls yet though?

[dpt8544]

Weird how some of the gameplay has that horrible grass texture as others have pointed out. However this was also shown in the same trailer:

That looks perfectly fine (this is a pretty poor quality screenshot) and certainly not the regression that is being posited by some. Not entirely sure what's going on with this to be honest.

All that being said, it's probably not enough of a step forward for my personal liking, but to be honest the way it plays is much more important than the pure graphics. I'm sure they will come out with a video about the match engine soon.

[saihtam]

Cute faces in the bottom.

[forameuss]

Nice to see the usual overreactions on all sides over a short video.  Marketing teams would have spent time on this, making sure it sounds attractive.  It's a presentation.  It's by no means a representation of what the entire product is going to feel like come the demo/full release.  Do the headline features sound amazing?  Not really.  But then they never do.  Even if they did, tiny things could have changed behind the scenes that render the main features irrelevant, either because it makes the game much better, or indeed much worse.  People are putting way, way too much stock in this.  Wait until the demo's out, take a look at it, and make your decision.  It's that simple.

On a slight side note, it's been said it'll never happen, fair enough, but this board really needs the upvote stuff either removed, or the addition of downvotes.  Particularly with threads like this.  

[themadsheep2001]

4 minutes ago, forameuss said:

Nice to see the usual overreactions on all sides over a short video.  Marketing teams would have spent time on this, making sure it sounds attractive.  It's a presentation.  It's by no means a representation of what the entire product is going to feel like come the demo/full release.  Do the headline features sound amazing?  Not really.  But then they never do.  Even if they did, tiny things could have changed behind the scenes that render the main features irrelevant, either because it makes the game much better, or indeed much worse.  People are putting way, way too much stock in this.  Wait until the demo's out, take a look at it, and make your decision.  It's that simple.

On a slight side note, it's been said it'll never happen, fair enough, but this board really needs the upvote stuff either removed, or the addition of downvotes.  Particularly with threads like this.  

I wouldn't worry about the importance of upvotes when it comes to feedback tbh. Feedback isn't taken based on a popularity contest

[styluz05]

For me I really hope the ME is reworked. I'm fed up with how powerful Gegen press is, you can take can team and dominate with it. If you want to play a old fashioned 442 with big man and small for example up top you get destroyed. 

Just feel every year your forced to play which ever tactic is overpowered. I try hard to avoid this but the ME tends to lean towards something too much. 

[forameuss]

Just now, themadsheep2001 said:

I wouldn't worry about the importance of upvotes when it comes to feedback tbh. Feedback isn't taken based on a popularity contest

I know that, and I know I've said it before and it's been made clear that it'll never happen.  Fair enough, SI's choice.  I'm not saying that the highest upvote wins or anything, but it sort of loses any use when you get 30 people agreeing with someone saying something overly negative, and then 30 other people agreeing with someone saying something overly positive.  Having the balance promotes the stuff that isn't just appealing to one side.

But like I said, it's not going to happen, and not really relevant.

[themadsheep2001]

1 minute ago, forameuss said:

I know that, and I know I've said it before and it's been made clear that it'll never happen.  Fair enough, SI's choice.  I'm not saying that the highest upvote wins or anything, but it sort of loses any use when you get 30 people agreeing with someone saying something overly negative, and then 30 other people agreeing with someone saying something overly positive.  Having the balance promotes the stuff that isn't just appealing to one side.

But like I said, it's not going to happen, and not really relevant.

I think it's more to stop people quoting an entire post just to say, I agree

[saihtam]

12 minutes ago, forameuss said:

Nice to see the usual overreactions on all sides over a short video. 

Do you think that people are overreacting with how the pitch, stadium and growd looks? They showed it to us.

[Rashidi]

8 minutes ago, styluz05 said:

If you want to play a old fashioned 442 with big man and small for example up top you get destroyed. 

I am so hurt, i got a whole bunch of friends playing a simple 442 with a tall/fast combination up top with a middle block and they are having smashing fun. 

[treble_yell_:-)]

17 minutes ago, forameuss said:

Nice to see the usual overreactions on all sides over a short video.  Marketing teams would have spent time on this, making sure it sounds attractive.  It's a presentation.  It's by no means a representation of what the entire product is going to feel like come the demo/full release.  Do the headline features sound amazing?  Not really.  But then they never do.  Even if they did, tiny things could have changed behind the scenes that render the main features irrelevant, either because it makes the game much better, or indeed much worse.  People are putting way, way too much stock in this.  Wait until the demo's out, take a look at it, and make your decision.  It's that simple.

On a slight side note, it's been said it'll never happen, fair enough, but this board really needs the upvote stuff either removed, or the addition of downvotes.  Particularly with threads like this.  

 

SI could stop being so tone deaf though, much like Neil's post on page 1.

The media interactions etc are basically a meme at this point, folk really don't care if you can hug your player 

Otoh folk want to hear about the ME changes , they will want to see more about AI squad building, they will want to hear about the work that's went into the ME in the last year and other under the hood changes that affect the actual meat of the game.

Given how most developers talk to/ treat their communities in the age of the internet, it's bizarre that SI go dark 10 months a year and just before release give folk "This year you can hug your player or pick the journo that will ask you one of a dozen stock questions before you allocate the feature to be handled by your assistant". The community would absolutely lap up a more technical discussion.

 

[gunner86]

16 minutes ago, themadsheep2001 said:

I think it's more to stop people quoting an entire post just to say, I agree

I agree.

[gunner86]

On the pitch graphics, do we have any idea what level of graphics they’re running when the screen grabs were done?

They always used to be done on low/minimal graphics/resolution iirc, so may not be worth drawing comparisons til it’s out

[Pasonen]

13 minutes ago, saihtam said:

Do you think that people are overreacting with how the pitch, stadium and growd looks? They showed it to us.

While I agree. Do you remember how graphic details looked like when fm20 beta came out? Example manager man's eyebrows where like werewolves graphics details improved from beta to 20.4 which means they got their hands full. Hoping this time graphics will be more ready when game really comes out.

I know.. annoyingly positive <-

[Icy]

hace 1 hora, ferrarinseb dijo:

This is from this very thread. The 2011 one looks real pitch and give you the feeling of being in the match or you can call it natural. Where as in 2021 one it's just not natrual and gives the feeling of odd. The Environment of match day should be closer to 2011 one. 

Wow, are you sure both screens are using same graphical settings and not that one is using max and the other min? FM11 looks much better. I only play in 2D anyway as I still prefer to use my imagination than a poor representation, but these screenshot if true and using same settings, are really shocking.

Edited October 16, 2020 by Icy

[forameuss]

16 minutes ago, saihtam said:

Do you think that people are overreacting with how the pitch, stadium and growd looks? They showed it to us.

Simply, yes.  I'd imagine that will look different depending on whatever settings or setup you have.  Does it look great?  Not really.  But I could think of a long, long list of things I'd find more important than what shade of green the pitch is, in a game where visual presentation is already low.

3 minutes ago, treble_yell_:-) said:

 

SI could stop being so tone deaf though, much like Neil's post on page 1.

The media interactions etc are basically a meme at this point, folk really don't care if you can hug your player 

Otoh folk want to hear about the ME changes , they will want to see more about AI squad building, they will want to hear about the work that's went into the ME in the last year and other under the hood changes that affect the actual meat of the game.

Given how most developers talk to/ treat their communities in the age of the internet, it's bizarre that SI go dark 10 months a year and just before release give folk "This year you can hug your player or pick the journo that will ask you one of a dozen stock questions before you allocate the feature to be handled by your assistant". The community would absolutely lap up a more technical discussion.

Ok, so you don't like the company, or the direction they go in.  But I presume you still buy the product?  And this isn't just a flippant "don't buy it then", by the way.  At the end of the day, SI want the product to be a certain way.  Obviously they hope that users have the same opinions and are going to like that direction.  You clearly don't, and you're expressing that.  And that is absolutely fine.  But what do you do as a company that is, at the end of the day, a business?  You look at your profits, and your sales, and they're (probably) largely unchanged.  So do you move away from your own roadmap and plans because of people's posts on the forum, or do you just continue getting the sales?

If people really don't like the direction the game is going, or the decisions SI have made, then buying the product at the same time has to be one of the most backward things you could do.  Will you not buying it make a difference?  Maybe, maybe not.  You'll be 30 quid richer, certainly, and won't be using a product you think is inferior at least.

[tyro]

1 hour ago, ferrarinseb said:

This is from this very thread. The 2011 one looks real pitch and give you the feeling of being in the match or you can call it natural. Where as in 2021 one it's just not natrual and gives the feeling of odd. The Environment of match day should be closer to 2011 one. 

The left side is run at what graphic level? The right side, (a) is showing the lighting changes, there are also other parts of the video showing better texture, and (b) usually the highlight videos are shown on lower quality graphics and not the higher ones. That does not really make it for an accurate comparison? Every statement, picture taken out of context can support one claim or another.

I have played this game since FM11. If you actually use 3D, you will see the differences and details added.

[Beret83]

17 hours ago, mielony said:

I just saw a new trailer, ME is no different from FM2020 not good ...

How exactly without seeing multiple games played thru can you tell it is the same? The coding for the engine has thousands of intricacies - and you can tell all is the same from a small clip 

[Neil Brock]

14 minutes ago, treble_yell_:-) said:

 

SI could stop being so tone deaf though, much like Neil's post on page 1.

The media interactions etc are basically a meme at this point, folk really don't care if you can hug your player 

Otoh folk want to hear about the ME changes , they will want to see more about AI squad building, they will want to hear about the work that's went into the ME in the last year and other under the hood changes that affect the actual meat of the game.

Given how most developers talk to/ treat their communities in the age of the internet, it's bizarre that SI go dark 10 months a year and just before release give folk "This year you can hug your player or pick the journo that will ask you one of a dozen stock questions before you allocate the feature to be handled by your assistant". The community would absolutely lap up a more technical discussion.

 

 Whilst we appreciate suggestions and spend time reading all the feedback here, as a company we're always making decisions and looking at various best approaches both in-game and outside. Just because something may specifically work for you or a certain part of the audience, doesn't mean it works for everyone. 

I've tried to engage with you based on a question you've asked and we have developers/QA and other members of the team constantly reading these forums. There is more we can do from a communication perspective and that's something we're constantly reviewing on how much we're able to draw back the curtain but these are decisions made at the highest level. 

Speaking about engagement specifically here on our community forums, we've never been a company that's forced our staff to come on here, historically it's been done by personal choice. The moderating team has taken steps to try and make it a place where there can be more engagement directly with SI Staff, but reading through some of the comments we've already seen in this thread (one specific post that highlighted how 'pathetic' things are for instance), if I pointed a new developer here and asked them whether they wanted to get involved, they'd likely run a mile. That's not to say people can't be critical as we've always said, we encourage constructive criticism. but as we laid out in these house rules below, there is a line that when crossed is detrimental to the whole community.

Quote

Whilst we can understand sometimes users get frustrated with their game (last minute goals conceded, manager sackings and the like) we would appreciate it if users could remember a few important things when posting on our forums:

When providing critical feedback, where possible please try and keep it constructive. This helps us help you.
- We understand that sometimes people need to let off some steam, but when doing so we can only try and make things better if we know the cause of complaint. Try and provide details of specific areas where you think things can be improved and why you may not like a certain part of the game when providing feedback. 

Bugs are best raised on the Bug Forums
- If you're posting on an area of the forum, it's worth asking yourself "is what I'm posting a bug"? If it is, please try to raise it via our bugs forum, that way our QA team can investigate. 

Remember when you talk about SI, you're talking about real people who read these forums.
- In the past we've read things like: "SI are idiots", "Did the QA team even test this game" and "whoever is responsible for this should be sacked" and more. These forums were set up to be a way where our development team can engage directly with the community on a whole host of issues. Over time unfortunately the frequency our developers post has dropped considerably due to the types of comments above. Please bear in mind when you're making comments in regards to the game that the people who created it are likely reading. Keep things civil and above all respectful. Failure to do so means we may be forced to edit or remove your post. Continued failure to do so will lead to warnings and infractions. 

The Moderating team are here to help
- The moderators are unpaid volunteers and provide support and help because they're extremely passionate about the game. They're not told to walk a company line, nor are they told to convince anyone who doesn't like the game the reasons why they should. They try to use their knowledge of the game to help people, to engage in debate and to make sure misinformation doesn't spread. Please remember when engaging with them that they're trying to help and deserve to be shown respect like everyone else. 

Thanks. 

[treble_yell_:-)]

Regarding graphics, taking screens from an already compressed Youtube video is not representative of the game. 

 

This is FM 20 @ 1440p on an i7 10700 / RTX 2070S;

 

 

 

[themadsheep2001]

14 minutes ago, gunner86 said:

I agree.

You're the worst

[tyro]

 

FYI, this is a different screenshot from the features video. Taking the worst screenshot does not make for good comparisons.

Just to clarify, I am still not putting a verdict on FM21 as we have simply not seen enough yet. We have seen small glimpses. This cannot be compared to full games nor can you judge what the features actually do so far. You can speculate. Everyone is free to drop out at this point and say it is not enough but doing so with this little information would be a bit pre-mature.

 

 

Edited October 16, 2020 by tyro

[themadsheep2001]

On a serious level, going back to Neil's post, if people are making this a place he couldn't sent a new dev, then we'll be left with little choice but to be stricter with our moderating

[gunner86]

12 minutes ago, themadsheep2001 said:

You're the worst

You think I’m bad now, wait for the beta speculation thread 

[Samurai Cake]

LMA Manager 2007 on the PS2 - FM 21 is on the xbox series x - if anyone wants to compare what we've seen of the pitch/stadiums/lighting/players so far, go right ahead. I know which game I think looks vastly superior. I wonder just how much more powerful the series x is compared to the ps2 - let alone my PC XD. 

 

If what we've seen is considered acceptable from SI, then I really don't know what to say. We all know, this kind of stagnation is what a lack of competition does. 

When the big feature in your big features preview is that your manager game of 31 years old is now focusing on you the manager, well, I think you maybe got some issues. 

I'm not sure how I can be constructive with this, if you want constructive criticism, any other developer would have been crucified for this lack of visual development, which I know, isn't the games primary purpose, but come on now. Let alone you know, releasing a broken game each year that needs multiple patches. 

[Harrison Bored]

6 minutes ago, Samurai Cake said:

LMA Manager 2007 on the PS2 - FM 21 is on the xbox series x - if anyone wants to compare what we've seen of the pitch/stadiums/lighting/players so far, go right ahead. I know which game I think looks vastly superior. I wonder just how much more powerful the series x is compared to the ps2 - let alone my PC XD. 

 

If what we've seen is considered acceptable from SI, then I really don't know what to say. We all know, this kind of stagnation is what a lack of competition does. 

When the big feature in your big features preview is that your manager game of 31 years old is now focusing on you the manager, well, I think you maybe got some issues. 

I'm not sure how I can be constructive with this, if you want constructive criticism, any other developer would have been crucified for this lack of visual development, which I know, isn't the games primary purpose, but come on now. Let alone you know, releasing a broken game each year that needs multiple patches. 

Seems like somebody needs a lesson in what constructive criticism is. Your constructive criticism is that they should be crucified?  

[forameuss]

Maybe we can organise a donation to charity everytime someone refers to the competition argument like they're a wide-eyed fresher just finished their first Business 101 lecture.  We'd make a fortune.

[treble_yell_:-)]

14 minutes ago, Samurai Cake said:

 

The 3D engine was designed with help from the Virtua Soccer team at SEGA with them providing a lot of the mocap data for the animations. If you watch VS4 footage you can see some very familiar animations. 

The 3D engine is dated and ugly, we all know that, but SI know the system specs folk are playing on and need to cater to that. Personally I can live with the 3D as is, yes it would be nice if it was better but  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ It's the animations that are immersion breaking imho.

[Samurai Cake]

Just now, treble_yell_:-) said:

The 3D engine was designed with help from the Virtua Soccer team at SEGA with them providing a lot of the mocap data for the animations. If you watch VS4 footage you can see some very familiar animations. 

The 3D engine is dated and ugly, we all know that, but SI know the system specs folk are playing on and need to cater to that. Personally I can live with the 3D as is, yes it would be nice if it was better but  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ It's the animations that are immersion breaking imho.

I undestand what you're saying. I disagree massively that anyone is playing on a device less powerful than a Ps2 XD

[treble_yell_:-)]

Just now, Samurai Cake said:

I undestand what you're saying. I disagree massively that anyone is playing on a device less powerful than a Ps2 XD

Well @themadsheep2001 says that a large % of folk are playing on a CPU's older than Pentium 4 so I guess it's possible.

[Neil Brock]

4 minutes ago, treble_yell_:-) said:

The 3D engine was designed with help from the Virtua Soccer team at SEGA with them providing a lot of the mocap data for the animations. If you watch VS4 footage you can see some very familiar animations. 

The 3D engine is dated and ugly, we all know that, but SI know the system specs folk are playing on and need to cater to that. Personally I can live with the 3D as is, yes it would be nice if it was better but  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ It's the animations that are immersion breaking imho.

Think it was actually SEGA Worldwide Soccer initially, but that was for the first implementation of 3D. We've done plenty of mo-cap sessions since then and I'd be surprised if many (or even any) of those original animations still remain in the game. 

[themadsheep2001]

And not just old users. Newer users are often buying the cheapest laptops capable of playing FM. Simply because it's the only game they play

[upthetoon]

It's underwhelming but only because the FM20 ME was a kick in the teeth to many. 

i hope SI realize all this 'cosmetics', some of which was removed previously and back in now or re-skinned interactions, are only going to be as good as the main core of the game which is the ME. If the ME is going to be at an acceptable level and resembles football, then these 'cosmetics' adds a layer to immersion & people might enjoy the 'experience' and bother about the press conferences and interactions.

The problem now is the core of the game, which is the ME, is such a frustrating experience that all the stuffs that is there just to add immersion, is redundant to most. Most players just throws it to the Asst. manager.

Usually changes/improvement to the ME is done in a separate video, so will wait for it. The 'spreadsheet' part of the game is severely lacking and also very little attention been given for years especially the tactics & set-piece creator.
I really hope these parts of the game received attention.

[Samurai Cake]

3 minutes ago, treble_yell_:-) said:

Well @themadsheep2001 says that a large % of folk are playing on a CPU's older than Pentium 4 so I guess it's possible.

The PS2 did this on 32MB of Ram - the Min Specs for 2019/2020 of FM is 2GB of Ram oO - I would take that statement with a grain of salt

[themadsheep2001]

5 minutes ago, treble_yell_:-) said:

Well @themadsheep2001 says that a large % of folk are playing on a CPU's older than Pentium 4 so I guess it's possible.

I've never compared anything to the PS2. Simply said a large % play at min spec

[StevehFC]

4 hours ago, Lempicka said:

Not really sure where to begin with the match day experience. I won't bang on about how disappointed I am with the lack of stadium improvements, but I'm struggling to decide what looks more unrealistic - the pitch or those fireworks. Throw in the the replica shirt overkill from the crowd and your left with that looks like, at best - as earlier version of the Sims.

I'm not after whistles and bells, just an authentic representation of the match day experience. Comparing the FM21 screen grab with one from FM14 - I know which one I prefer.

 

That looks bad. FM14 photo looks much better. 

[saiyaman]

As someone who was disgruntled by FM 2020's match engine (enjoyed the features off the Match Engine) and wanted to hold himself back from pre-ordering, I think the changes are pretty cool considering the situation of COVID.

If this trend continues, I may find myself pre-ordering. I would definitely be disappointed if these were the only major features though because while I understand that COVID's impact is large, if you're going to charge full price then there is a certain level of expectation for sure.

Although, I have to say that the Match Engine looks......pretty bad. It's a work in progress so I hope things change. I'm not the type of person who wants a lot of graphical changes but sometimes I do want them to add something to the graphics which isn't just "new and improved animations".

Edited October 16, 2020 by saiyaman

[davehanson]

1 hour ago, forameuss said:

Nice to see the usual overreactions on all sides over a short video.  Marketing teams would have spent time on this, making sure it sounds attractive.  It's a presentation.  It's by no means a representation of what the entire product is going to feel like come the demo/full release.  Do the headline features sound amazing?  Not really.  But then they never do.  Even if they did, tiny things could have changed behind the scenes that render the main features irrelevant, either because it makes the game much better, or indeed much worse.  People are putting way, way too much stock in this.  Wait until the demo's out, take a look at it, and make your decision.  It's that simple.

On a slight side note, it's been said it'll never happen, fair enough, but this board really needs the upvote stuff either removed, or the addition of downvotes.  Particularly with threads like this.  

I don't agree with this. A presentation, in anything, should capture the attention and wow the intend audience. It should showcase the best of what you have to offer - in this case FM21. There is no way that those graphics for the match, pitch graphics, textures etc, should look that bad in a presentation video. If you can't get them looking better than that then don't show them! 

[treble_yell_:-)]

1 minute ago, themadsheep2001 said:

I've never compared anything to the PS2. Simply said a large % play at min spec

You said a significant amount of people attempt to play below minimum spec ( which is a low end 2008 CPU/GPU combo)

Steam Hardware results put folk with at or below minimum specs CPU as 0.4% of all Steam users and at / below minimum spec GPU at < 2% of all Steam users.

I realize that a lot of folk aren't playing these games on modern rigs so it is what it is.

 

[Dagenham_Dave]

6 minutes ago, saiyaman said:

I would definitely be disappointed if these were the only major features though because while I understand that COVID's impact is large, if you're going to charge full price then there is a certain level of expectation for sure.

 

You have to remember, that for a number of people, this edition of FM will be their first one, and games designers always have to keep this in mind.  

Also. from a business model perspective, charging less would be suicide. It's already less than the cost of full prices titles elsewhere (around £20 cheaper than FIFA at launch for example), and the value for money given the hours you put it into it is unrivalled. I fully expected there not to be any wholsale changes this year, but I'm pleasantly suprised at how nice the UI is looking. If that was the only upgrade, I'd be fine with that. I enjoyed the FM20 match engine, hardly saw any of the issues others reported, so a few improvements in that department will be cool with me. 

[themadsheep2001]

Just now, treble_yell_:-) said:

You said a significant amount of people attempt to play below minimum spec ( which is a low end 2008 CPU/GPU combo)

Steam Hardware results put folk with at or below minimum specs CPU as 0.4% of all Steam users and at / below minimum spec GPU at < 2% of all Steam users.

I realize that a lot of folk aren't playing these games on modern rigs so it is what it is.

 

I also said FM users are not representative of steam users. That's the crux of the point here