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Neil Brock

Football Manager 2016 Out Now - Official Feedback Thread

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So many goals after red cards! By teams with fewer players...

It's almost as if teams who go down to ten men never galvanise and end up being the better side.

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I've found it the opposite. Anytime the other team has had someone sent off I've gone on to easily win the game.

Saved me a few times when I was getting outplayed.

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It's almost as if teams who go down to ten men never galvanise and end up being the better side.

How often do you see teams scoring 3 after having a man sent off?

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How often do you see teams scoring 3 after having a man sent off?

Is this against your team?

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How often do you see teams scoring 3 after having a man sent off?

No idea, I don't have the exact data to hand, funnily enough. But I've seen enough games in real life to know that teams who go a man down are sometimes more difficult to beat than when they had eleven on the park.

If it's been your own team on the receiving end of this, and I'm assuming it is hence why you've posted, perhaps the fact that a team with ten men has outplayed you enough to score three times should be more of a concern than implicitly blaming the game.

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There is a serious issue IMO with yellow cards leading to red cards. I have had 6 red cards and I am only in February!!! Aaron Creswell has three reds and Winston Reid with two. Hardly over aggressive players and on normal tackling. 58 yellows as well.

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There is a serious issue IMO with yellow cards leading to red cards. I have had 6 red cards and I am only in February!!! Aaron Creswell has three reds and Winston Reid with two. Hardly over aggressive players and on normal tackling. 58 yellows as well.

In my Sheff Wed save, I got through the first two seasons without a single red card. Are all the other teams in your league getting as many cards?

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Is this against your team?

No, there are rarely red cards in my games, just observing results in the league between AI. An awful lot of wins by teams with red cards.

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I have to say I am rather enjoying this years version much more then I did 2015. I find the menu rather easy to navigate, although finding the "jobs" area is a bit of a pain. I don't have a major problem with cards but injuries are a mite annoying. Other then that I am glad I got it this year, I was leary from last year but I am happy.

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No, there are rarely red cards in my games, just observing results in the league between AI. An awful lot of wins by teams with red cards.

I think it needs context but its maybe something thats worth raising in the bugs forum for SI to evaluate.

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How often do you see teams scoring 3 after having a man sent off?

Not regularly but it does happen:-

Wed 4th Feb 2004 - Tottenham vs Man City (FA Cup 4th Round)

Tottenham lead 3-0 at half time

Joey Barton sent off during half time - Man City down to 10 men

Man City score 4 goals in the second half to win 4-3

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There is a serious issue IMO with yellow cards leading to red cards. I have had 6 red cards and I am only in February!!! Aaron Creswell has three reds and Winston Reid with two. Hardly over aggressive players and on normal tackling. 58 yellows as well.

When your player gets a yellow go to his instructions and tick 'ease tackles', for ball winning midfielder it's better to change role at all to less aggressive one and also tick this instruction.

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There is a serious issue IMO with yellow cards leading to red cards. I have had 6 red cards and I am only in February!!! Aaron Creswell has three reds and Winston Reid with two. Hardly over aggressive players and on normal tackling. 58 yellows as well.

Pretty high, how are the rest of your instructions? lots of closing down? anything else aggressive on team tactics?

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There is a serious issue IMO with yellow cards leading to red cards. I have had 6 red cards and I am only in February!!! Aaron Creswell has three reds and Winston Reid with two. Hardly over aggressive players and on normal tackling. 58 yellows as well.

I've seen a few instances of high card counts, usually with specific players. Anyone with the editor know what hidden attributes are for these 2? I wonder if that's playing more of a part?

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When your player gets a yellow go to his instructions and tick 'ease tackles', for ball winning midfielder it's better to change role at all to less aggressive one and also tick this instruction.

I've found using the 'shout' 'Calm down' works pretty well, as in no subsequent red card.

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The team I support in real life have had 8 red cards already this season, and we're not even a dirty team. Sometimes it just goes like that.

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The team I support in real life have had 8 red cards already this season, and we're not even a dirty team. Sometimes it just goes like that.

Yup, there's dynamicism and random chance in the form of the match play. FM has another lay on top, which is actually a leftover issue from previous editions. It means that depending on their attributes and traits, referees consistently award either barely a single bookie a game or up to 6-7 on average. Could be fixed by research in parts, but for regen refs plus randomized ones this will still apply and is under review. If you check the Prem for instance (stats->referees) you'll find that there's a few of those who barely award a booking too, which means whoever is officiating a match makes a hell of a difference, whilst real footie stats suggest that in most leagues the average is pretty consistently 3-5 bookings a match, with some regional differences, Italien refs being a tad more strict than those in the EPL. FM's refs can be both be way beyond and and below. I've simulated the EPL multiple times now, and Scott and Tierney average 1 booking a match at best, consistently, whilst there isn't any overly strict refs in there, actually. Swarbrick is up to a mostly pretty realistic 4 on average. Already under review though. The RNG for randomized refs (attributes all set to "0") in a FM 2015 save of mine awarded me with a set of refs that made it so that at the end of the regular season (close to 30 matches), there had been teams who didn't see 10 yellows overall. Naturally no team ever needed to worry about a sending-off, like ever.

Can't say I'm seeing many if any comebacks of teams being down to ten though. They mostly lose or draw at best. It's reasonable easy to defend down to 10 still though, on recent FMs forwards never get behind the ball anyway by default, whatever could be triggering such huge comebacks if they at all happen is likely 100% connected to tactics. On FM 2015 early on a side being down to ten could unintentionally suddenly become more dangerous, as after the send off which always springs a tactical change, it made them having two players who didn'T track back whilst it previously was but the lone forward. If the opposing team didn't adjust, it meant the team being down to ten could be more dangerous on the break, whilst depending on the formation still be somewhat solid defensively. Such comebacks could be made more likely as counter and through ball opportunity as opposed to some previos releases is more readily taken / aggressively teams pushing all the way up more eager to be punished. Without context and actually seeing AI changes in action though, which will be different as each AI manager has preferences, it's 100% guess work.

That said, I understand that this isn't given top priority, but the quick sim match stats have been woefully out of sync for more than three years now, making this seem a little careless by now. As far back as FM 2013, the ME upped the "playing time" of matches significantly, which made for higher shot counts, more passes, more distances covered, simply more match action. And such the numbers are totally off by now. The same league level simulated in full match details and via the quick sim. Naturally shot stats, passing numbers etc. are also affected. Pity as the quick sim obviously takes attributes into account, to ensure that there's still some valid info in there. But the gap's just comically huge.

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I've seen a few instances of high card counts, usually with specific players. Anyone with the editor know what hidden attributes are for these 2? I wonder if that's playing more of a part?

No real hidden attributes, he'll have high aggression in his normal attributes, this needs toned down.

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I had to delete cache, preferences etc to deal with some persistent crashing in-game.

I reload my save and I have now lost the option for 3D view - has anyone seen this before?

The tick box for "view matches in 3D" is now greyed out and no logger tickable.

All a bit confusing as I was playing with 3D last night :(

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Hi

I have been away for 5 weeks and have a quick question on the demo I just downloaded. Does the demo include the latest patches re 16.1.1. (740934). Mine seems to show 740641?

Cheers

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No real aggression in my tactics. To be fair I am just trying a few different strategies and formations out first season and most tactics are either counter or standard, and certainly no real aggressive TI's on my defenders. Cresswell who has been sent off three times (two for two yellows and one straight red) has 8 for aggression and 15 for tackling.

League Stats for cards in by February are : Reds : Watford 9, Sunderland 5, Swansea 5, WEST HAM, 4, Villa 3, Palace 3. Yellows : Watford 70, Sunderland 57, WEST HAM 50, Chelsea 49, WBA 45, Stoke 43.

My season totals in all games so far : Reds : 6/43 Yellows : 63/43 Fouls : 617/43 -------- With as I say non aggressive tactics. Max of normal tackling.

The second yellows as well are just stupid errors on the players part. Reid made a professional foul when I was defending deep and playing counter. Cresswell made challenges because he seemed well out of position and he has a position stat of 15. Just wondering if defenders poor positioning, especially full backs may be part of the problem.

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9 of 10 players I tutored, their determination went down. Thanks God only Zivkovic's determination went up. I think there is also a problem with this and should be fixed if I am not missing anything. Tutoring should be helpful!

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9 of 10 players I tutored, their determination went down. Thanks God only Zivkovic's determination went up. I think there is also a problem with this and should be fixed if I am not missing anything. Tutoring should be helpful!

You are missing the obvious.

A tutee's determination moves towards the determination of the tutor therefore if the tutor has a lower determination then the tutees will drop.

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having some serious kit clashes with barcelona second kit, in about 4 pre-season matches, i'd say 3 had kit clashes

If you could report these in the ME bugs section with the PKM, that would be great. :thup:

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I started to upgrade youth and training facilities 2 months ago and after the season finished, board announced to start to upgrade youth and training facilities for 6.2M euro. I checked the bar to see the construction and it is still in the %30 and there is not any extra construction started. I think I have lost 6.2M euro because of another FM mistake...

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I started to upgrade youth and training facilities 2 months ago and after the season finished, board announced to start to upgrade youth and training facilities for 6.2M euro. I checked the bar to see the construction and it is still in the %30 and there is not any extra construction started. I think I have lost 6.2M euro because of another FM mistake...

If the board have only just announced that they've started the upgrade then it won't happen overnight, give it time before blaming Si for a bug.

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I am not blaming anyone. I am saying it is possible to be a bug. Relax. Money has been spent in the finance and there is no action. So you think it is normal to announce it a year advance?

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I am not blaming anyone. I am saying it is possible to be a bug. Relax. Money has been spent in the finance and there is no action. So you think it is normal to announce it a year advance?

Its not a year in advance, you applied to upgrade two months ago. It was evaluated and now the board have decided to go ahead and spend the 6.2m on the upgrade. It could easily take a year to complete depending on the upgrade.

You've raised several "issues" recently but tbh most of them are because you don't understand what is happening in the game. If there is something you don't follow its fine to ask but you keep blaming FM which frustrates people.

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Again one more time i am not blaming anyone. Board already decided to upgrade and spent 6.2M euro 2 months ago, and now they spent 6.2M euro and the thing you are saying doesnt make sense at all. It is %30 loaded already and 12.4M euro has been spent. Can you also please tell me which issues I raised recently that I dont understand what is happening in the game? I have been playing football manager for more than 15 years from championship times so before you claim something, i recommend you to think

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Again one more time i am not blaming anyone. Board already decided to upgrade and spent 6.2M euro 2 months ago, and now they spent 6.2M euro and the thing you are saying doesnt make sense at all. It is %30 loaded already and 12.4M euro has been spent. Can you also please tell me which issues I raised recently that I dont understand what is happening in the game? I have been playing football manager for more than 15 years from championship times so before you claim something, i recommend you to think

So are you 100% that the money has gone out of your account twice? Perhaps you could upload a screenshot of your expenses to confirm that. It could be a bug but also it could be that there were two upgrades or that the overall cost was more than 6.2m and paid in stages/installments.

As for your other issues just last night in post #1523 you don't know why the tutee's determination has dropped. I would expect someone who has played CM/FM for more than 15 years to know how tutoring works given how long it has been in the game and how many thousands of threads have been posted on numerous FM websites in that time.

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First time in this fm I decided to give feedback since there are more details in the game, as a result more bugs. I dont know how to upload a photo in this forum but I also can't find the expenditure of March anymore. If it repeats, I will take a photo. I always thought determination of tutor is important and I always check before I tutor but 9 of 10 players tutor affecting badly seems a little unrealistic since Selcuk Inan's det. 14, Semih Kaya's det. 15, Burak Yilmaz's det. 14. These are key players and favorites for the club so they should give the kids determination. Also a bonus criticism about how you guys are a little stingy about determination of Turkish players. Hakan Calhanoglu 9, Oguzhan Ozyakup 10, Gokhan Tore 10, Arda Turan 12, Hakan Balta 10, Volkan Babacan 10 Mehmet Topal 12 Volkan Sen 12 Yunus Malli 7.... These players are key players. Turkey hasnt been lost since 12 November 2014 which is 11 games(8 won 3 draw) We were awarded for 'Best Mover of the year' by FIFA. We started with 1 point in 3 games to the qualifying groups and made a superb comeback. Determination is always the biggest power for us. I dont know who is helping you about Turkish players but their determination is really underrated. They couldn't make this miracle happen with this weak determination, especially under Fatih Terim management. Otherwise they wouldn't be selected. I sometimes want to start the game with Turkey but when seeing the determination of the players wean me off from it. When I managed a club most of the time I see Turkey national teams suffer and fail by ending up 4th. I think we need to be at least 3rd again in Euro2016 to get what we deserve. Just a friendly criticism :)

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First time in this fm I decided to give feedback since there are more details in the game, as a result more bugs. I dont know how to upload a photo in this forum but I also can't find the expenditure of March anymore. If it repeats, I will take a photo.

If you suspect that it is a bug, report it in the bugs forum with a save. A photo won't do as SI cannot investigate under the hood then. A save from just before the 2nd payment is subtracted, should be good.

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Had this same issue in FM15. FAR too easy to get a new, better job.

Quick backstory: Started with Oxford City in National League South, sunday league reputation, no coaching badges. Very average season, finished 14th. Not good but not awful. Moved to Lincoln City who got relegated to National League North. Expectation was simply to win the league and go straight back up, but I had a horrible time and got sacked after 20 games, leaving the team down in 19th. My reputation should be shot to pieces after that, right? Apparently not.

Received interview offers from Tranmere, Welling and Dover in the National League. Tranmere top of the league at the time, and was offered all three jobs. I also applied for the Accrington and Notts County jobs, both in League 2, and again got offered both jobs. No way an underachieving manager who hasn't managed above National League North and South level with no coaching badges and sunday league reputation should be getting offers from National League and League 2 clubs. I try to play my saves as realistically as possible and enjoy the progression of receiving job offers from bigger clubs if I'm doing well. This shouldn't be happening when I'm having an absolute stinker.

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You are missing the obvious.

A tutee's determination moves towards the determination of the tutor therefore if the tutor has a lower determination then the tutees will drop.

which is the thing that really gets on my nerves. If a young guy is determined and he is tutored with not as determined player, he will become less determined? Why would that happen? He will say, oh look at him, he is not determined, I need to stop beeing determined to..I don't get the logic behind that.

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which is the thing that really gets on my nerves. If a young guy is determined and he is tutored with not as determined player, he will become less determined? Why would that happen? He will say, oh look at him, he is not determined, I need to stop beeing determined to..I don't get the logic behind that.

Personalities rub off on people, so it makes a lot of sense.

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Personalities rub off on people, so it makes a lot of sense.

But it's a negative effect. And why would a reasonable determined man get less determined just because he is working with less determined man than himself. He would surely know that it is not good for him,no?

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As a follow up question to the Determination issue, coming from FM 14, i don't know how this works. I noticed that at the start of the game in FM 16 you can choose your determination attribute from the allocated points. Although the game clearly states what it does, i was wondering if it also had an added effect on the players you "manage/coach" ?

For instance, if i put my Det at 19 as opposed to 12, will it in any way affect the Det attributes of my players?

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For instance, if i put my Det at 19 as opposed to 12, will it in any way affect the Det attributes of my players?

It won't. Your squad's personality (not yours) can rub off on younger players.

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It won't. Your squad's personality (not yours) can rub off on younger players.

But shouldn't it really? I mean, look at Barcelona in 2006/07 when Rijkaard left and Pep took over. His personality counted for more than a lot to the squad. Look at the change when Moyes took over Man Utd. Look at how Milan fell after Ancelotti. Look at how Liverpool have been revolutionized just by the arrival of a certain Klopp. And there are more countless examples that exist. Even Mourinho despite his many failures somehow transfers his combative and determined attitude to his players.

Anyway, it should definitely affect the players in my opinion.

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I have just seen a sending off for deliberate handball (and the match highlights showed it clearly!). Nice one.

Others may disagree/argue, but in the previous 20 years of playing CM/FM, I can't remember seeing handballs at all.

Apart from that, it's most stable version I've seen at release day. Great work, slicker, better UI, more immersive. Great work.

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Just had 2 younger players moan about getting games. The first I can understand as he's part of my 1st team squad, he came to me before and wanted game time which I agreed with and he's been getting more time on the pitch, his status is back up and he's played 3 out of 7 games since I first spoke to him, he has now come back unhappy that I broke my promise, how?? he's played 3 out of 7 and is a back up. The second is a young CB in the development team, a promising youngster, we have 4 good CB's so he's no where near 1st team status yet but he comes moaning about not getting a chance in the 1st team...you're 18 years old and still developing, I told him this and he wasn't happy, I've since sent him on loan to shut him up.

I don't mind players asking for more game time as I expect that in real life but breaking promises that were kept and an 18yr old U20 squad players moaning about 1st team squad chances is going too far in my opinion.

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But shouldn't it really? I mean, look at Barcelona in 2006/07 when Rijkaard left and Pep took over. His personality counted for more than a lot to the squad. Look at the change when Moyes took over Man Utd. Look at how Milan fell after Ancelotti. Look at how Liverpool have been revolutionized just by the arrival of a certain Klopp. And there are more countless examples that exist. Even Mourinho despite his many failures somehow transfers his combative and determined attitude to his players.

Anyway, it should definitely affect the players in my opinion.

Your reputation etc does affect them, but it doesn't change their attributes.

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Just had 2 younger players moan about getting games. The first I can understand as he's part of my 1st team squad, he came to me before and wanted game time which I agreed with and he's been getting more time on the pitch, his status is back up and he's played 3 out of 7 games since I first spoke to him, he has now come back unhappy that I broke my promise, how?? he's played 3 out of 7 and is a back up. The second is a young CB in the development team, a promising youngster, we have 4 good CB's so he's no where near 1st team status yet but he comes moaning about not getting a chance in the 1st team...you're 18 years old and still developing, I told him this and he wasn't happy, I've since sent him on loan to shut him up.

I don't mind players asking for more game time as I expect that in real life but breaking promises that were kept and an 18yr old U20 squad players moaning about 1st team squad chances is going too far in my opinion.

If you agree to play a player for the next month or so, he's going to expect to start regularly. The fact that he has abackup status doesn't matter here.

For the 2nd issue, the youngster should be easier to talk round if he really isn't good enough. That fact that he reacted so negatively, might indicate a poor personality? If not, please report it with the save before the chat so SI can review it.

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If you agree to play a player for the next month or so, he's going to expect to start regularly. The fact that he has abackup status doesn't matter here.

For the 2nd issue, the youngster should be easier to talk round if he really isn't good enough. That fact that he reacted so negatively, might indicate a poor personality? If not, please report it with the save before the chat so SI can review it.

Generally I cope well enough with these situations, the 1st one annoyed me because he was given game time but still moaned, I managed to talk him round though. The 2nd one he has the potential to be a good player nothing special, I'll look again at his personality traits, I won't report it as a bug as I don't see these things as bugs, it's a bigger issue with players mentality/personality etc.

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The 2nd one he has the potential to be a good player nothing special, I'll look again at his personality traits, I won't report it as a bug as I don't see these things as bugs, it's a bigger issue with players mentality/personality etc.

This might be bug-worthy if the player really isn't good enough and he has a good personality too. If his professionalism is low (or controversy high?), then that might be why he's reacted this way.

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I really wish 'team shape' and 'mentality' were better explained. While for mentality, there are some clear signs on what changes when you fiddle with it (even though some people here say that Barcelona play counter-attacking, while the game says it is for teams that expect to be inferior to their opponents, so something is wrong), the team shape settings is a complete mystery (to me). In the team settings screen, it seems to only affect pressing play? I do realize it has more effect than that, but it is not shown anywhere to the human player.

Also, it would help to know what kind of players suit what kind of team shape. Am I correct in thinking that more fluid team shapes require players that have a higher football intelligence (decisions, vision, anticipation, off the ball)? How can I tell if my team is more suited for playing structured or fluid?

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I really wish 'team shape' and 'mentality' were better explained. While for mentality, there are some clear signs on what changes when you fiddle with it (even though some people here say that Barcelona play counter-attacking, while the game says it is for teams that expect to be inferior to their opponents, so something is wrong), the team shape settings is a complete mystery (to me). In the team settings screen, it seems to only affect pressing play? I do realize it has more effect than that, but it is not shown anywhere to the human player.

Also, it would help to know what kind of players suit what kind of team shape. Am I correct in thinking that more fluid team shapes require players that have a higher football intelligence (decisions, vision, anticipation, off the ball)? How can I tell if my team is more suited for playing structured or fluid?

you are right the naming of mentalities is quite off. might be right few years ago but me went forward while descriptions were left behind.

not sure what you mean about team shape. if it is those squares on tactics screen that move and change positions as you change roles, then they only represent general position of player in defensive phase of game. si argues that, i.e., it makes easier for user to understand where players into each others way on the pitch.

structured or fluid depends exclusively on you not the players. it is the way you want your players to behave on the pitch. do you want to give them more freedom (fluid) or do you want them to follow your instructions (structured). you should think about your players here and attributes you've mentioned are spot on again. no need to give too much freedom to 11 players that have little or no ability when it comes to making their own decisions, anticipation or off ball movement)

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you are right the naming of mentalities is quite off. might be right few years ago but me went forward while descriptions were left behind.

not sure what you mean about team shape. if it is those squares on tactics screen that move and change positions as you change roles, then they only represent general position of player in defensive phase of game. si argues that, i.e., it makes easier for user to understand where players into each others way on the pitch.

structured or fluid depends exclusively on you not the players. it is the way you want your players to behave on the pitch. do you want to give them more freedom (fluid) or do you want them to follow your instructions (structured). you should think about your players here and attributes you've mentioned are spot on again. no need to give too much freedom to 11 players that have little or no ability when it comes to making their own decisions, anticipation or off ball movement)

Edit: by team shape I meant the structured/balanced/fluid settings.

That is exactly what I meant, however the game does not tell you this (the assistant's advice, for instance, is always poor, the first thing I do is turn him off). If the game can highlight attributes which matter for every player role and "duty", then it should also be able to do the same for overall, general tactical decisions. Those green lines/blocks that move left-right don't really tell me much (I could be an idiot, it has happened before). There are other confusing GUI things, also - like, if I turn on the use of overlaps in my tactic, how often will my fullbacks go forward? And how forward, anyway? And if I tell a player to 'go further forward', what does that mean? When will he do it and how often? And how far? Further than what? The usual amount of 'forward' he goes? The same goes for 'dribble more' or 'dribble less' (or whatever) and so on. Basically, every option seems to be 'it might happen sometimes in a certain way during the match'.

I would also like to have blank player roles and duties, so that we can enable whatever we want (I'm not at home right now, but IIRC all roles have some preset options that you cannot change). A blank role for every position would be very useful, IMHO. Negative settings also - e.g. tell the player to never take long shots, or tell the keeper to never make long kicks, and pick something from the remaining possibilities.

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