Football Manager 2016 Out Now - Official Feedback Thread

[MBarbaric]

so, game was fine when you were on good run and conceede only 5 goals in 11 games and now it is broken?

there is no rule why you shouldn't lose 7-0 even if you conceeded only 5 in last 11 games. for such a heavy loss it is probably quite a few things went wrong. from team talk, bad luck, determined opponent and wrong tactics.

[Cougar2010]

so, game was fine when you were on good run and conceede only 5 goals in 11 games and now it is broken?

there is no rule why you shouldn't lose 7-0 even if you conceeded only 5 in last 11 games. for such a heavy loss it is probably quite a few things went wrong. from team talk, bad luck, determined opponent and wrong tactics.

Pretty much this.

It doesn't matter how your tactic worked in other games, in this one it didn't. Maybe you made changes during the game, maybe they helped, maybe they didn't, maybe it was too late and the game was already lost which it was after 25 mins at 5-0.

I imagine though you also just caught Man City on a very good day while the mentality of your players was possibly not the best given your good run previously. Add in a little bad luck and 7-0 it is.

You can either upload the save/pkm and people can look at it and give you more advice or you take it on the chin & move on.

[HUNT3R]

I have raised this issue several times and it keeps happening. I finally decided to wait for update because I am spending days for the game and one in a million found me again after 50 games.(Still better than previous experiences) Manchester City just won against my team Galatasaray 7-0. If you are wondering my squad; Muslera-Chambers-Mammana-Chedjou-Antonov-Meli-Selcuk-Sneijder-Podolski-Zivkovic-Burak. I never went Attacking the whole game since it was 5-0 in the first 25 minutes. My team conceded only 5 goals in the last 11 games so please do not question any tactical issues. As I said before the game is really aggressive. Goals are non stop. Matches needs to be calm. Please do not give the example of 8-0 game between Real Madrid and Malmo. We all know you can't even compare my current 11 with Malmo's and Manchester City is not Real Madrid. I am just hoping there will be some improvement about this matter. I am not sure if there is a problem with Muslera. I compared his skills with previous game and I find out tendency to punch went down to 7 from 15. In Turkey he is a legend already which people sometimes make jokes 'Even if a plane fall, he will catch it too' I just cant feel it. I dont know why he is too bad. His skills doesnt seem so bad tho.

If I were you, to save yourself from tearing your hair out, I'd ask advice in the Tactics forum.

[TurkishWonderkid]

If the game was terrible I wouldn't made it part of my life in the last 20 years. Also I am playing this game not to satisfy my ego, I prefer to do it in real life for sure There are much better ways to this so I used to play it in more realistic way and that is why I share my disappointment. I just don't like waking up from the beautiful 'being a head coach' dream with an unrealistic incident. There is no such defeat more than 6-0 in Galatasaray's 110 years history and in the last 50 games I lost 7-1 to Bursaspor and 7-0 to Manchester City. You tried to normalize 7-1 and again with same lines you try to do the same I think it is all about how we see this game. If you think this is normal, then no need to question the rest. I am also so perfectionist maybe that's why. What I honestly think is you take all the criticism and probably improve it but you don't show it since it can shake your authority so I respect. I just keep my fingers crossed for an update with some improvement.

[TurkishWonderkid]

If I were you, to save yourself from tearing your hair out, I'd ask advice in the Tactics forum.

Respectfully I disagree one more time. You are still in tactics. I have written encyclopedia of tactics in FM. I have been playing this game since 1990s. After managing a team couple of years I used to win Champions League 10 years in a row each game. I am sure I will do the same if I continue this game but the thing you don't understand is it is not the point. I need to sleep and dream but someone keep waking me up. Do you understand what I mean?

[Karnack]

If the game was terrible I wouldn't made it part of my life in the last 20 years. Also I am playing this game not to satisfy my ego, I prefer to do it in real life for sure There are much better ways to this so I used to play it in more realistic way and that is why I share my disappointment. I just don't like waking up from the beautiful 'being a head coach' dream with an unrealistic incident. There is no such defeat more than 6-0 in Galatasaray's 110 years history and in the last 50 games I lost 7-1 to Bursaspor and 7-0 to Manchester City. You tried to normalize 7-1 and again with same lines you try to do the same I think it is all about how we see this game. If you think this is normal, then no need to question the rest. I am also so perfectionist maybe that's why. What I honestly think is you take all the criticism and probably improve it but you don't show it since it can shake your authority so I respect. I just keep my fingers crossed for an update with some improvement.

Improvement of what? A hard coded cap saying "If more than 6 goals -> Stop scoring"?

[TurkishWonderkid]

Improvement of what? A hard coded cap saying "If more than 6 goals -> Stop scoring"?

This is very superficial question. If a continental level team plays with a continental level team high score defeats like this shouldnt happen like twice a year. Especially if you are playing with a national level team and much weaker side than your team. It is very simple. 8 shots 7 goals, 10 shots 7 goals eh?

[Karnack]

This is very superficial question. If a continental level team plays with a continental level team high scores defeats like this shouldnt happen like twice a year. Especially if you are playing with a national level team and much weaker side than your team. It is very simple. 8 shots 7 goals, 10 shots 7 goals eh?

How is it a superficial question? You ask for improvement when you lose twice with big numbers. You refuse to accept that tactis has anything at all to do with it and you come up with no suggestion on what should be fixed.

Have you noticed English football this season? Any weird real life results that you just couldn't believe a few seasons ago?

[HUNT3R]

Respectfully I disagree one more time. You are still in tactics. I have written encyclopedia of tactics in FM. I have been playing this game since 1990s. After managing a team couple of years I used to win Champions League 10 years in a row each game. I am sure I will do the same if I continue this game but the thing you don't understand is it is not the point. I need to sleep and dream but someone keep waking me up. Do you understand what I mean?

Just because you've been playing the game for a while, doesn't mean you are a faultless tactician. Your previous tactic posted was very, very open which is an extremely basic mistake to make. You also gave up 7 goals then. It'll be a similar issue this time, which is why I recommended you go to the tactics forum.

[TurkishWonderkid]

0-1 'Damn it!'

0-2 'I still can make it!'

0-3 'This is getting embarrassing'

0-4 'I can't wait for the final whistle'

0-5 'This is a horrible defeat'

0-6 'Oh come on!'

0-7 I woke up

Hopefully you understand what I mean now

[spankie]

I never went Attacking the whole game since it was 5-0 in the first 25 minutes. My team conceded only 5 goals in the last 11 games so please do not question any tactical issues.

So what did you do when you were 1-0 down and then 2-0 down, did you make any changes to your tactics at all? I'm guessing that you went more attacking and thus left yourself more open to attacks from your opponent and that let then score more goals. You probably should have changed things to tighten up at the back and try to get something on the counter.

I'm afraid that in this case it was mostly a tactical issue, poor team selection, poor team talk or a combination of those. You may have even said sometihng in a press conference that galvanised the opponents to play better against you.

It doesn't matter how long you've been playing CM/FM for, there is always room to learn something new and the tactics forum is the place to go. Even if you don't post your tactic details there reading the threads will give you new ideas for tactics and how to improve your current tactic. I often go there and read some threads to get new tips and I've been playing CM/FM since CM94 on the Amiga.

If you keep on being in denail that anyone can teach you anything new with tactics on FM then you will end up with more of these bad results and it's not the game that is the cause. Keep an open mind and go to the tactics forum, I amd sure that you will see something there that you can use to improve your tactics.

[szp]

As I said before the game is really aggressive. Goals are non stop. Matches needs to be calm

My experience with FM16 is totally different TBH. The games are calm and there are usually no more than 15 shots taken by stronger team For me the main problem of this game is not the amount of shots or goals, but the way that AI scores. These 2-3 typical situations: goals from crosses (after really weird positioning from the FB or after a FB chasing a winger for 40-50 meters not attempting a tackle); goals after through balls when one of the CD's stops marking the striker or starts moving in other direction (something I really can't understand :\); lethal counterattacks when even Grimsby Town looks like Real Madrid with Mourinho in charge That is the problem. If I'd lose a lot of goals but the ways of losing them would be balanced, I could live with that ;P

[Svenc]

There is continental level and there is continental level. At home the Istanbul clubs often dominate their leagues. In Europe, the CL in particular, Gala conceded 10 goals combined against Real Madrid two seasons ago, including a 1-6, and last CL season both a then struggling Dortmund and Arsenal scored 4 each in their clashes against them. There's also a reason why, in particular defensively, Galatasaray show up as one of the weakest sides in this CL group stages in terms of performance stats. It's not hugely much of a stretch to think that the research is accurate enough to have paired two teams that are quite big apart, in particular concerning City's attacking talent, good for multiple dribblings tearing up space open a game each (which also shows statistically). Even without making anything risky, I could see that result happening every once in a while. In particular against those sides that don't need to care any about money no matter what. Naturally if you hang on as a somewhat experienced player your side typically improves the following season, the gaps become smaller. At the start of the game they should be reasonable big.

With Bursaspor this looks something else. The shot counts look a little suspicious though, like a specific marking job on one of the crucial fulcrums in your defensive shape getting dragged all over the pitch due to it and the conversion rate thus going through the roof as opponent's are given a free way goalside on each attack. For any more elaborate feedback you'd need to save and upload those matches, it's but a few kb and a couple of seconds of additional commitment.

[TurkishWonderkid]

So what did you do when you were 1-0 down and then 2-0 down, did you make any changes to your tactics at all? I'm guessing that you went more attacking and thus left yourself more open to attacks from your opponent and that let then score more goals. You probably should have changed things to tighten up at the back and try to get something on the counter.

I'm afraid that in this case it was mostly a tactical issue, poor team selection, poor team talk or a combination of those. You may have even said sometihng in a press conference that galvanised the opponents to play better against you.

It doesn't matter how long you've been playing CM/FM for, there is always room to learn something new and the tactics forum is the place to go. Even if you don't post your tactic details there reading the threads will give you new ideas for tactics and how to improve your current tactic. I often go there and read some threads to get new tips and I've been playing CM/FM since CM94 on the Amiga.

If you keep on being in denail that anyone can teach you anything new with tactics on FM then you will end up with more of these bad results and it's not the game that is the cause. Keep an open mind and go to the tactics forum, I amd sure that you will see something there that you can use to improve your tactics.

Please teach me how to prevent Aguero's first 3 shot finds the net in the first 8 minute I didnt even go attack. I always play control balanced fluid basic things. There is nothing extreme. This is how I succeed last season. I have won against Manchester United 3-2 previous season at home. Morale was also high. Press conference all done as players pleased of my words. Team talks are where you left off and i expect much better performance in the second half Talking tactics sound funny but still I want you to see there is something weird. Imagine 4 defenders 1 defensive midfielder and 1 defensive midfield I am still found playing very open What should I do? Play with at least 7 defensive type players? They are not even dominating the game. When I lost to Bursaspor they had 8 shot and I had I think double of it. Manchester had 10 shot and I had 4-5.. Maybe coincidence

[TurkishWonderkid]

There is continental level and there is continental level. At home the Istanbul clubs often dominate their leagues. In Europe, the CL in particular, Gala conceded 10 goals combined against Real Madrid two seasons ago, including a 1-6, and last CL season both a then struggling Dortmund and Arsenal scored 4 each in their clashes against them. There's also a reason why, in particular defensively, Galatasaray show up as one of the weakest sides in this CL group stages in terms of performance stats. It's not hugely much of a stretch to think that the research is accurate enough to have paired two teams that are quite big apart, in particular concerning City's attacking talent, good for multiple dribblings tearing up space open a game each (which also shows statistically). Even without making anything risky, I could see that result happening every once in a while. In particular against those sides that don't need to care any about money no matter what. Naturally if you hang on as a somewhat experienced player your side typically improves the following season, the gaps become smaller. At the start of the game they should be reasonable big.

With Bursaspor this looks something else. The shot counts look a little suspicious though, like a specific marking job on one of the crucial fulcrums in your defensive shape getting dragged all over the pitch due to it and the conversion rate thus going through the roof as opponent's are given a free way goalside on each attack. For any more elaborate feedback you'd need to save and upload those matches, it's but a few kb and a couple of seconds of additional commitment.

I definitely agree with that. Gala showed horrible performance even this year. Atletico won 2-0 but they could won 5-0 at least if there wasnt Muslera but the thing is my current team is much stronger than the real Gala squad now. Thats why this score is shocking. There are 3 wonderkids in the team next to Sneijder Podolski Muslera Selcuk.. I just have imagined the team much different than this result

[Cougar2010]

Talking tactics sound funny but still I want you to see there is something weird. Imagine 4 defenders 1 defensive midfielder and 1 defensive midfield I am still found playing very open What should I do? Play with at least 7 defensive type players?

This is why people are bringing tactics up.

You claim to be some sort of tactical genius and yet you fail to grasp basic concepts. Until you accept that your tactical knowledge isn't as good as you think it is you'll continue to have these sort of issues.

You can either look to improve your tactical knowledge or you can continue to stick your head in the ground and ignore everyone, your choice.

[forameuss]

Please teach me how to prevent Aguero's first 3 shot finds the net in the first 8 minute I didnt even go attack. I always play control balanced fluid basic things. There is nothing extreme. This is how I succeed last season. I have won against Manchester United 3-2 previous season at home. Morale was also high. Press conference all done as players pleased of my words. Team talks are where you left off and i expect much better performance in the second half Talking tactics sound funny but still I want you to see there is something weird. Imagine 4 defenders 1 defensive midfielder and 1 defensive midfield I am still found playing very open What should I do? Play with at least 7 defensive type players? They are not even dominating the game. When I lost to Bursaspor they had 8 shot and I had I think double of it. Manchester had 10 shot and I had 4-5.. Maybe coincidence

You sound like you don't really understand the depth of tactics. You mention playing 6 defensive players, and seem to think that that obviously means you'll defend well. That doesn't really work, just like throwing up seven strikers doesn't mean you'll score more goals. When I was playing as Lincoln of Gibraltar I tried to ****fest my way to a draw by playing every player in the defence/defensive midfield strata. I lost most times, even with ten defenders there. How can that be? Because it was a terrible setup.

You then mention press conferences, and players being "pleased of your words". That's not necessarily a good thing either. What did you tell them? That they'd win? They probably agreed, thought it was great, right up until the time that that over-confidence saw them getting pumped 7-0. You mention you told them to pick up where you left off - was that from a domestic game? Seems like you'd want them to treat a European game differently.

You can sit with your head in the sand, and claim that playing previous versions makes you an expert (the match engine changes massively between versions, so it's not a strong point to make) and then continue to get results where you get pumped, or you could actually listen to what more learned people are saying and seek some help. Or, a third option, just accept that things like this happen.

[forameuss]

I definitely agree with that. Gala showed horrible performance even this year. Atletico won 2-0 but they could won 5-0 at least if there wasnt Muslera but the thing is my current team is much stronger than the real Gala squad now. Thats why this score is shocking. There are 3 wonderkids in the team next to Sneijder Podolski Muslera Selcuk.. I just have imagined the team much different than this result

Chelsea have, for the most part, the squad that won the league last season, and look at how they're doing. You can't just buy great players and get an instant win anymore.

[TurkishWonderkid]

This is why people are bringing tactics up.

You claim to be some sort of tactical genius and yet you fail to grasp basic concepts. Until you accept that your tactical knowledge isn't as good as you think it is you'll continue to have these sort of issues.

You can either look to improve your tactical knowledge or you can continue to stick your head in the ground and ignore everyone, your choice.

I am sorry but my winning ratio is around %75. I also became unbeaten champion with Panathinaikos. 0 loss. Which is another unrealistic issue. I am not having any problem with results. Board always says I am untouchable. You still dont get the point. Thats is why talking tactics sound funny since I am only talking about 2 games here

[HUNT3R]

Please teach me how to prevent Aguero's first 3 shot finds the net in the first 8 minute I didnt even go attack. I always play control balanced fluid basic things. There is nothing extreme. This is how I succeed last season. I have won against Manchester United 3-2 previous season at home. Morale was also high. Press conference all done as players pleased of my words. Team talks are where you left off and i expect much better performance in the second half Talking tactics sound funny but still I want you to see there is something weird. Imagine 4 defenders 1 defensive midfielder and 1 defensive midfield I am still found playing very open What should I do? Play with at least 7 defensive type players? They are not even dominating the game. When I lost to Bursaspor they had 8 shot and I had I think double of it. Manchester had 10 shot and I had 4-5.. Maybe coincidence

You mention positions. Roles and Duties IN these positions just as important, if not more. Control is an attacking mentality too. Again, please take this to the Tactics forum. You had a Defensive midfielder the last time too, but he was on Support and with your Control mentality, he's going to venture very far forward, leaving you very open.

[DazRTaylor]

Being able to renegotiate pre-agreed deals is a good idea, get it in the wishlist thread so that the right people at SI do not miss it.

Thanks. All done.

[luka_zg]

Does the touchline shouts change tactics? I noticed when I selected "get more creative" there was a message you get when you actually change tactics during match "tactical changes please wait.." (it's something similar). So, if you say "tighten up" will it switch mentality to defensive or what?

I only used the touchline shout for the 1st time on FM16 so I don't know if it works like that?

[HUNT3R]

Does the touchline shouts change tactics? I noticed when I selected "get more creative" there was a message you get when you actually change tactics during match "tactical changes please wait.." (it's something similar). So, if you say "tighten up" will it switch mentality to defensive or what?

I only used the touchline shout for the 1st time on FM16 so I don't know if it works like that?

"tactical changes please wait.." (it's something similar) is just the ME re-calculating the events as you've made changes. The same thing happens when you ask players to concentrate, which is definitely not tactical.

[Sussex Hammer]

Anyone else struggling from powder puff shots when in good scoring positions and goals being conceded because of stupid short back passes?

Also anyone suffering a juddery 3D engine at times? Was fine on medium on FM15 but even low struggles on 16.

[heryellowribbon]

Right backs are a little OP... fullbacks in general... keepers always get low ratings for me too.

[paok_revolution]

Anyone else struggling from powder puff shots when in good scoring positions and goals being conceded because of stupid short back passes?

Also anyone suffering a juddery 3D engine at times? Was fine on medium on FM15 but even low struggles on 16.

We must wait for the upcoming update.If the update will be released ever....

[tfcbicicletasaturno]

Right backs are a little OP... fullbacks in general... keepers always get low ratings for me too.

Same here. In my saves the Full Backs always lead in assists. In the BPL it's Bellerin or Zabaleta always on top. It seems to be consistent when you play on the match engine and the simulated general game. Too many goals come from crosses. That's the only concerning issue I have with the game, which I'm loving BTW.

[baboyray]

I'm seeing really low average ratings for most of my team & low possession (usually around 40% or lower), even though I'm winning the league and CL etc.

I realise it might be my tactics but just wondering if anyone is seeing anything gets similar.

[rp1966]

Now that I'm starting to come to terms with the better counter-attacking in FM16, I'm quite enjoying it. Definitely harder than previous years (for me) - doing OK (top 10) with West Ham first season rather than sitting comfortably in the CL places as I normally do.

Things that are bugging me at the moment - full back positioning (seems that's being looked at); play in the final third seems to have had the 'stupid' turned up a notch - lots of offsides even with a cautious tactic, poor decision making in and around the box and the usual ineptitude from strikers. Scorelines end up OK, but there seems to be a balance issue around crosses vs worked opportunities which isn't helping variety of play.

Still optimistic about this year's game at the moment.

E2A: Another thing that I've noticed is the AI playing low condition players with no apparent penalty to the player's effectiveness. The worst example (which stood out because of the player involved) was Man City playing Silva against me - started at condition 45; played the whole game as you'd expect Silva to play; ended on 35 - just doesn't seem right at all.

[PleasedToMichu]

"Ricky Alvarez is unhappy at his lack of starts and want to talks to you about it". "OK Ricky, i hear you, i will look to start you in a few upcoming games over the next month or so"

Literally the same week as that convo, Van Ginkel gets injured for 7 weeks. Alvarez starts every game from then on.

News feed about a month later: "Ricky Alvarez unhappy promise not kept".

Wut?

[HUNT3R]

"Ricky Alvarez is unhappy at his lack of starts and want to talks to you about it". "OK Ricky, i hear you, i will look to start you in a few upcoming games over the next month or so"

Literally the same week as that convo, Van Ginkel gets injured for 7 weeks. Alvarez starts every game from then on.

News feed about a month later: "Ricky Alvarez unhappy promise not kept".

Wut?

Seems like an obvious bug, so please report it in the bugs forum with a copy of the save from just before the promise expires.

[Theos]

Aside from other bugs and annoyances I won't talk about yet, I don't understand this game sometimes.

[forameuss]

Aside from other bugs and annoyances I won't talk about yet, I don't understand this game sometimes.

What don't you understand about that? Isn't there a preferred move to try to shoot less? That player is on the default setting, and your coach believes he should do it less.

[penza]

^

*sticks fingers in ears*

*hums happy tune*

Not really anywhere to go with that since you've decided for yourself that it isn't anything you're doing (clue: it is). Shall we just say the game is terrible and against you and satisfy the ego?

every single comment on this forum you are so negative about it? is your life that miserable...every single post of yours is against every single comment unless its a praise of FM, if you are that good at the game, you should teach everyone...

[forameuss]

every single comment on this forum you are so negative about it? is your life that miserable...every single post of yours is against every single comment unless its a praise of FM, if you are that good at the game, you should teach everyone...

It bothered you so much that you dug out a post from several days ago? Your concern is touching, but I'm alright over here, you can rest easy. If I needed to justify my posting to you, then I'd point you to the vast numbers of posts which disprove what you said, but you seem to be well clued up, going through every single one of my posts and running the negativityometer over them. Keep up the good work champ!

[HUNT3R]

Keep comments to feedback on the game and not each other, please.

[Loversleaper]

Now that I have evolved from the Lone Striker tactics into the other tactics that have two strikers, one thing that is really standing out right now is offsides - especially for the striker on Attacking Duty. The game play is quite fantastic but unfortunately gets overshadowed pretty quickly with the amount of offside and weird back passes that sometimes dominates the Highlights... There are some highlights that only show a pass and an offside before the game moves on...

[paok_revolution]

any news about the update.I know that i am a annoying,but i stopped play the game about two weeks

[Spedding]

the first news of any update will be here but that will only be when it goes live.

[Welshace]

No news paok... there is never any news until it is out.

[paok_revolution]

i want to know if we are near to the upcoming update

[Welshace]

Aside from other bugs and annoyances I won't talk about yet, I don't understand this game sometimes.

As someone has mentioned, there is a ppm for a player to 'refrain from taking long shots'

[Guest]

i want to know if we are near to the upcoming update

Any updates will be announced when they are ready.

[spankie]

any news about the update.I know that i am a annoying,but i stopped play the game about two weeks

All of your last posts were all asking about a new patch, surely by now the answer should be known to oyu. It'll be ready when its ready and SI will never reveal a release date until it is ready.

[Svenc]

Are the visual cues for individual player mentality genuine, i.e. at all comparable to the sliderisms of yesteryore? In particular at the most structured, that looks insane. On a defend team mentality this is the gaps between a FB /D and a FWD / A (midfielders on attack duty don't seem to clock in overly hugely less).

Naturally, the CM/A vs a CM/d shows in the analysis too. It's apparent he's far more forward pushing in his passing choices.

Bournemouth's Gosling as a CM/a.

Bournemouths Surman as a CM/d

A side effect of the passing analysis is that you see how the player positions himself, as that's where he gets involved on the ball. So Surman shows up much deeper in the passing analysis as well. You pick a CM/d because he sits deep and keeps basic position, vice versa for attack (with support in between), that's always been the primary function when duty came around. Sure, on some roles you can add a "hold position" or "get further forward" manually, but it's limited to a selected few combinations, and it's as argued causing conflict -- not only is duty now determining positioning, whether and how frequently a player pushes forward with his runs, the setup also hugely has an influence on general play -- even on a defend team mentality in particular on structured setups, the attack duties players are this aggressively, they just completely override the intended team behavior and coherency. If that complete forward (attack) above gets the ball, all he'll try to do is to get goalside, and that's on the second most defensive team mentality. Forget about any ball retention much with him. What's the internal debate on this been like?

edit: flicking through it all, it seems only on the fluid setups you have reasonably tight bands anymore (previously you had those on all of the shapes/fluidities). On structured it basically says goodbye to any of the team mentalities you pick, and duty almost taking over wholesale and generally a huge gap between your last defender/d (being encouraged to play it ultra safe) and your forward/a (who's basically encouraged to go for it, chap, regardless of any mentality). Supports my playing experience as well, with attack duty players being forward pushing in all of their choices by default almost regardless of team mentality. You can clearly sense where the occasional "time wasting" AI is coming from here as well, dawdling on the ball deep and spamming passes, as the AI managers up defend dutys typically when they go defend/contain, which know has a severe knock-on on passing choice etc. as well. Cleon's currently advocating to decide on which structure to pick based on the increasing levels of creative freedom/self expression, more fluid systems given more if it and vice versa, something I would've supported previously completely. With FM 2016, this seems utterly and completely different. It's also more convulted by a country mile.

[Loversleaper]

@svenc

Your illustrations show that Mentality is not only a 'risky pass' tool - but also a positioning tool as I have been trying to point out all along. To break down Defensive teams you need to implement a certain amount of players on attacking duties (especially in the more attacking strategies) that should cause us to be more efficient in the final third of the pitch.

On the part of the more structured strategies: fluid team shapes are more for the normal roles that play the basic type of conventional football using wingers, central midfielders, fullbacks, deep and advanced forwards, DMs and AM's, ect... Fluid just lets those roles play their normal game, whereas playing structured allows players to play outside of the 'normality'. That's why if you play structured with the 'normal' roles you won't really be doing yourself a favor because you are basically just focusing on 'normal'...

Highly structured allows players to focus more on their roles (which is written on the tin as well) so that their 'behavior' becomes more effective. The more specialized roles you want to use, the more structured you want to be. Playing specialized roles in very fluid systems basically makes the players act more like the normal roles, which kind of defeats the purpose of choosing a specialized role in the first place...

[HUNT3R]

It's what we've kept saying. Mentality = level of risk taken. Not just with passes, but in every decision, including forward runs, dribbling, shots, passes, tackles etc.

[MBarbaric]

unfortunatelly it seems as fm's weakest point becomes more clear with every year. instead of thinking about tactics and football management player has to think how to translate tactics into ME language of mentalities, structures, roles and duties. a labyrinth of bad translations on all levels.

i appreciate the difficulties of translating football into software but user shouldn't play the guess game of what real tactic instruction means in ME terms. when you add game specific instructions that don't exist in real world it all gets more vague and ambigue. i don't think the game is bad but i firmly believe si will have to tackle this problem making the game more user friendly by introducing more football friendly language kicking out the gamey stuff. seems it is a turning point again after SI made right decision to ditch gamey sliders. now it has to think the way to ditch gamey mentalities, structures and stuff, or at least re invent these things into more football like terms.

until then, for majority of players it will be the game of guesses as it was with sliders.

[Loversleaper]

unfortunatelly it seems as fm's weakest point becomes more clear with every year. instead of thinking about tactics and football management player has to think how to translate tactics into ME language of mentalities, structures, roles and duties. a labyrinth of bad translations on all levels.

i appreciate the difficulties of translating football into software but user shouldn't play the guess game of what real tactic instruction means in ME terms. when you add game specific instructions that don't exist in real world it all gets more vague and ambigue. i don't think the game is bad but i firmly believe si will have to tackle this problem making the game more user friendly by introducing more football friendly language kicking out the gamey stuff. seems it is a turning point again after SI made right decision to ditch gamey sliders. now it has to think the way to ditch gamey mentalities, structures and stuff, or at least re invent these things into more football like terms.

until then, for majority of players it will be the game of guesses as it was with sliders.

Personally, I think that the tactics translates into the ME if people actually read and understand the descriptions. The game also drops huge hints during matches and in those staff meetings between fixtures, but it seems these things evade a lot of the community. The confusion comes with the fact that there are people who don't know how to use the instructions and don't grasp the simple aspects of football (like how to use attacking or defending to your advantage)...

[Svenc]

@svenc

Your illustrations show that Mentality is not only a 'risky pass' tool - but also a positioning tool as I have been trying to point out all along. To break down Defensive teams you need to implement a certain amount of players on attacking duties (especially in the more attacking strategies) that should cause us to be more efficient in the final third of the pitch.

There's a small overlap between mentality and the forward runs, namely in their timing. I.e. the "get overlap" instruction utilized this by maximizing the mentality on the FBs so that he was encouraged to run forward ASAP rather than when play has just reached the box. However the current setup is still mixing up two fundamentally different things, and that is the license given to players whether at all and how frequently they make attacking runs PLUS mentality. Duties have always been linked to the runs from deep setting of yore, which has become the current "hold position/get further forward" instruction. It was really really simple, with a couple exceptions, attack duty players always look to make attacking runs, defend duty players stand their ground. Mentality in total is an altogether different thing, though there's that overlap. Those mentality gaps in the more structured setups seem gigantic, and they highly influence patterns of play. You can have numerous attack duties, i.e. players going forward on any mentality and vice versa, the mix is up to you, thus you can have movement and break down teams on any mentality. Only that as per FM 2016, attack duty players are not only given license to run forward ("gets further forward" activated, typically), they also play a significantly more aggressive game as their peers (vice versa for defend duty players), which almost draws the team mentality moot looking at the huge gaps in the more structured setups. This is the reason why unlike previously, having a couple of attack duty players in midfield or in wide positions even in more restrained team mentalities gets and moves the ball forward aggressively. At least

Going by old community theorems, if the cues are accurate, the highly structured setups aren't coherent strategies. Which is perhaps a bit of an exaggeration. But currently it's like locking the defend duty players and the attack duty players in a separate locker room each before kick-off, and telling the defend duty guys, in particular those in deeper positions: "Look, we're looking to not concede today" vs. the attack duty guys, in particular those higher up the pitch: "Go grab and smash". Even if you go "defensive" as a team strategy/mentality, midfielders and forwards on an attack duty appear to be given orders like that. Consequently the defend duty guys are far more prone to just recycle the ball (as long as they're not pushed) vs the attack duty guys immediately looking to move it goalside. That's quite an overhaul there. What's more, you can only avoid or lessen it it if you go very fluid, as the gaps aren't as huge there going by the visual cues in the interface, the guys whilst given slightly different marching orders aren't all locked in seperate rooms, if you will. And that's where the specialists and generalist theorems you describe above can kick in, which is an altogether different layer about the levels of creative freedom/self expression and another area where all of a sudden previously reasonable simple functions appear to mix up. It's arguably not that hugely an impactful one at least compared to mentality now being linked to duty.