Football Manager 2024 Official Feedback Thread

[akkm]

3 hours ago, forameuss said:

That's just a cop-out though.  You always have another option.  This isn't a human right product, or something that anyone has to have.  You can freely try the product prior to buying - something which SI deserve slight credit for given every other developer seems to have completely abandoned the practice - so if you try and think it isn't worth the money, then you're welcome to still buy because of some lack of willpower or whatever, but you kind of forfeit the right to complain about how "it's been going on for years now" when you're part of the reason why it is.  If you really want change, you need to actually do something about it, otherwise, like you say, you're giving the thumbs up, implicit approval in what SI are doing.  Why would they change then?

Isn't he saying he didn't buy it for 3 years then bought into SI's 'false' promises and marketing drive re fm24. So that's an example where a person did exercise willpower and not buy it for several years then bought it last year (not sure how he felt about it) and then was won over by what appears to be a rather cynical effort by SI to convince people they had changed their recent ways but in essence, didn't really all.

I'm 100% in agreement with you on the not buying it is ultimate message of course. I do get your point and I'm all for personal responsibility,  but fortunately or unfortunatetly that's not how the world works. 

Re the demo...for sure good it's there but how many are aware of it...how many actually download it and whilst it is admirable SI offer it in the first place I'm sure they have the stats of how many download the demo.

Then can they track of those who downloaded it...how many bought the game/didn't buy the game. So if the numbers that didn't buy the game were low...do they see it as worthwhile as it translates to sales. Would they take the demo down if they found it many didn't buy after trying the demo.

It may well work in their favour to offer the demo sales wise.

Also isn't player/club development one of the complaints that crops up...a 6 month demo would be inconclusive on that.

Its certainly worth a look though and I've done that myself in the past.

The other thing of course the demo would have a specific match engine in it. One year I downloaded it...it wasn't the release engine when I downloaded it as the demo wasn't updated in time/synched with release engine. On top of this the match engine is subject to quite large changes in playing styles over the yearly cycle so if one bought it based on match engine in demo and it changes in the yearly cycle this undermines the demo in terms of match engine consistency on exposure to the demo...ie you're not getting what you were able to test initially on the demo.

Either way 2 things (or more) can be true at one time...there can be a demo available to test for a user and SI could change their ways in their yearly cycle anyway. On top of that what was the need to go down the road of what could be deemed a cycnical marketing ploy this year...particularly reading miles blog with the holding hands up on fm23 stuff.

I mean SI didn't roll out the marketing spiel this year to improve human rights, solve world hunger or end all wars did they. Thats not exactly the purpose of a marketing for a video game. 

It was a clear effort to assure people who had become cynical with SIs recent efforts that they acknowledged things weren't as good as they could have been before and intimating that things would improve from there but as many have pointed out that hasn't happened. So its absolutely understandable people will react as they have done this year. SI spiel/marketing is an effort to influence people's decisions and elements of this year's was to affect their willpower in terms of disarming them to buy a product they had grown cycnical of.

Providing a demo shouldn't be a green light or excuse to embark on a cycle that has continued in recent years and say ah its ok SI...there's a demo...its not on you it's the customers that are to blame. Thats a tad cynical to say the least. 

Having a go at someone who bought the game but excusing SI for elements Miles himself acknowledged weren't as good as they could have been isn't particularly helpful as I'm sure you well know.  

Its akin (however loosely 🙂) to cynical efforts by the fossil fuel industries to put responsibility and helping with climate change back on individuals to take responsibility off them and knowing well its not realistic at individual level. Same as leveling it at individuals re buying FM and taking onus off SI to get their own ducks in a row and themselves in order. 

Like what happens then...same as with climate change...sure some individuals will act but won't be enough to effect change to climate with everything fossil fuel industry is doing anyway...so fossil fuel will continue to do as they do without changing their behaviour improve things. 
Similarly not enough customers will choose not to buy FM to effect change on SI policies and therefore SI will continue to do as they do without changing things to improve.

The demo certainly isn't going to cause enough people to test it out and not buy to cause SI to change.

I acknowledge buying a product to enjoy is a choice versus a need for energy but its more the context of cynically putting onus back on customer when it's not a realistic proposition for enough to act to change and make SI change as a result.

Again 2 things can be true at one time...if everyone stopped buying the game that's a message SI will absolutely stand up and listen to and act on it. ..but also SI recent practices and this years cycnical efforts can be called out.

Plus what is that saying about SI anyway...once they get the cash they're happy to continue down the path of a lesser offering and only if enough stop buying it they'll act...not a great reflection of them is it

[TheHuss]

On 13/02/2024 at 20:11, janrzm said:

3-0 up at half time, Bring on a couple of younger talents (Breakthrough Prospect/Impact Sub) for some game time. Both Balanced Personality, 13/14 Determination. Greeted by "Would've preferred to stay on the bench". I don't know what triggers this but it seems way off the mark. Hungry young players, 45 minutes with no pressure, don't want to play. I just can't see it, 

One of the major problems with SI is their inability or unwillingness to communicate with loyal customers. So much could be clarified by explaining what these incredibly vague statements mean in-game. Either communicate what the words mean or, even better, put some thought into how language is used in-game. If players could logically infer useful information from the text we're reading it would be an interesting game dynamic. As it is, and has been for years, it's just an annoyance and most communication is click and hope 

[TheHuss]

1 hour ago, akkm said:

Isn't he saying he didn't buy it for 3 years then bought into SI's 'false' promises and marketing drive re fm24. So that's an example where a person did exercise willpower and not buy it for several years then bought it last year (not sure how he felt about it) and then was won over by what appears to be a rather cynical effort by SI to convince people they had changed their recent ways but in essence, didn't really all.

I'm 100% in agreement with you on the not buying it is ultimate message of course. I do get your point and I'm all for personal responsibility,  but fortunately or unfortunatetly that's not how the world works. 

Re the demo...for sure good it's there but how many are aware of it...how many actually download it and whilst it is admirable SI offer it in the first place I'm sure they have the stats of how many download the demo.

Then can they track of those who downloaded it...how many bought the game/didn't buy the game. So if the numbers that didn't buy the game were low...do they see it as worthwhile as it translates to sales. Would they take the demo down if they found it many didn't buy after trying the demo.

It may well work in their favour to offer the demo sales wise.

Also isn't player/club development one of the complaints that crops up...a 6 month demo would be inconclusive on that.

Its certainly worth a look though and I've done that myself in the past.

The other thing of course the demo would have a specific match engine in it. One year I downloaded it...it wasn't the release engine when I downloaded it as the demo wasn't updated in time/synched with release engine. On top of this the match engine is subject to quite large changes in playing styles over the yearly cycle so if one bought it based on match engine in demo and it changes in the yearly cycle this undermines the demo in terms of match engine consistency on exposure to the demo...ie you're not getting what you were able to test initially on the demo.

Either way 2 things (or more) can be true at one time...there can be a demo available to test for a user and SI could change their ways in their yearly cycle anyway. On top of that what was the need to go down the road of what could be deemed a cycnical marketing ploy this year...particularly reading miles blog with the holding hands up on fm23 stuff.

I mean SI didn't roll out the marketing spiel this year to improve human rights, solve world hunger or end all wars did they. Thats not exactly the purpose of a marketing for a video game. 

It was a clear effort to assure people who had become cynical with SIs recent efforts that they acknowledged things weren't as good as they could have been before and intimating that things would improve from there but as many have pointed out that hasn't happened. So its absolutely understandable people will react as they have done this year. SI spiel/marketing is an effort to influence people's decisions and elements of this year's was to affect their willpower in terms of disarming them to buy a product they had grown cycnical of.

Providing a demo shouldn't be a green light or excuse to embark on a cycle that has continued in recent years and say ah its ok SI...there's a demo...its not on you it's the customers that are to blame. Thats a tad cynical to say the least. 

Having a go at someone who bought the game but excusing SI for elements Miles himself acknowledged weren't as good as they could have been isn't particularly helpful as I'm sure you well know.  

Its akin (however loosely 🙂) to cynical efforts by the fossil fuel industries to put responsibility and helping with climate change back on individuals to take responsibility off them and knowing well its not realistic at individual level. Same as leveling it at individuals re buying FM and taking onus off SI to get their own ducks in a row and themselves in order. 

Like what happens then...same as with climate change...sure some individuals will act but won't be enough to effect change to climate with everything fossil fuel industry is doing anyway...so fossil fuel will continue to do as they do without changing their behaviour improve things. 
Similarly not enough customers will choose not to buy FM to effect change on SI policies and therefore SI will continue to do as they do without changing things to improve.

The demo certainly isn't going to cause enough people to test it out and not buy to cause SI to change.

I acknowledge buying a product to enjoy is a choice versus a need for energy but its more the context of cynically putting onus back on customer when it's not a realistic proposition for enough to act to change and make SI change as a result.

Again 2 things can be true at one time...if everyone stopped buying the game that's a message SI will absolutely stand up and listen to and act on it. ..but also SI recent practices and this years cycnical efforts can be called out.

Plus what is that saying about SI anyway...once they get the cash they're happy to continue down the path of a lesser offering and only if enough stop buying it they'll act...not a great reflection of them is it

This is an excellent and balanced take on the situation. The demo is no panacea, same as early access in the past, so often things are changed by the developers with no real option to opt in or out of the updates that the demo or early access/Beta that is rather enjoyable changes into something frustratingly buggy.

Another issue is that some problems only crop up after a couple of seasons. If SI assure customers that issues like newgens, AI squad building, a balanced transfer market, youth and nation reputations etc have been fixed, a potential customer plays the demo and enjoys those six months, or whatever it is these days ,and then decides to pay full-price for the game on the basis of promises by the developers and then finds out that the promises weren't fulfilled... What is the customer's recourse then? SI and Sega have the customer's hard-earned money and the customer potentially has a product that was bought under false pretenses. Nobody can think this is fair? What is the solution here?  If a customer can prove that a promised feature is missing/broken, should they be entitled to a refund at any point during the game cycle? Why not? I'm sure there's something that covers the developers in the EULA, but I'm talking about fairness not fine print... 

[makavali]

Has anyone actually seen a staff member who's progressing in terms of attributes? I'm pretty sure it was promised as a feature for this year's game. Am I dreaming? 

I'm in 2030 currently and I can't recall seeing any arrows. Just went through my whole staff (40 members in total) out of curiosity and I didn't see a single one. 

[Arnar]

15 minutes ago, makavali said:

Has anyone actually seen a staff member who's progressing in terms of attributes? I'm pretty sure it was promised as a feature for this year's game. Am I dreaming? 

I'm in 2030 currently and I can't recall seeing any arrows. Just went through my whole staff (40 members in total) out of curiosity and I didn't see a single one. 

Ive seen it on some off my staff through the years in my season. 

Edit: i checked him in a newly started save, he has gone up from 15 to 17 in technical and 1 in motivating, jpp and tactical knowledge.

Edited February 15 by Arnar
added info

[alian62]

15 hours ago, santy001 said:

Not at all. When it comes to computer games a number of people will feel compelled to play the game in the most optimal way possible. Even to the detriment of their own enjoyment of the game. 

When it comes to bugs, if it just happens out of nowhere then that's out of your control and if it ruins your game experience - of any title - that is unfortunate. It definitely happens though and many people have had many games ruined throughout their lives by encountering a bug out of nowhere. When it is a bug you can forcibly reproduce though, and in turn goes towards altering the natural difficulty or challenge in some aspect of a game it isn't necessarily fair to draw the attention to people of such an issue unnecessarily. Personally I've had issues with it in the past with other games and even with FM. Many moons ago there was a particular training exploit that involved going to specific levels in specific positions and skewing the attribute weighting system. Once the toothpaste is out of the tube for a player, its very difficult to put back in.

Believe it or not, all the posts made in here about it instead on the bug tracker would attract far more attention at SI. The reason being that the QA team are monitoring the bug tracker directly, this thread isn't directly monitored by the QA team and while it does get reviewed it isn't done so at the same intensity as the bug tracker and initially starts with staff outside of the QA team.

The good thing is, any posts we hide on the forums are still visible to SI staff in the exact same sequence as they were originally posted. In terms of the relevant attention being drawn to it, nothing is lost.

Would it not be a good idea then to monitor this forum just as intensely as the bug forum ? It really is just another click or two and your here ? Or redo this page to include bugs as well or have a direct link on this page  . This has become the place to have a whinge and post grievances about the game so it would make sense to have a bug section linked to it . I think also it becomes a chore to log bugs these days . I know we need to upload files etc but urrrgh it's aggravating. The response times are not great either . I know its frustrating from both sides and personally think it needs a better system . 

[alian62]

6 hours ago, D-Foxx said:

If only the seller delivered what was promised eh? Imagine that eh?

Some of the bugs only appear when you're seasons in. Player development, youth development etc (the list is endless - don't get me started) These things don't bump into you when playing a demo. I agree with the fact that people (including myself) keep buying the product nevertheless but like I said - FM 25 will not be purchased by me. 

But I bet you try the demo and get sucked in 😆

[Nick_CB]

2 consecutive matches. Unbelievable

 

 

[XaW]

7 hours ago, alian62 said:

have a direct link on this page 

Sigh... It's on the top of EVERY page of the forum...

[santy001]

7 hours ago, alian62 said:

Would it not be a good idea then to monitor this forum just as intensely as the bug forum ? It really is just another click or two and your here ? Or redo this page to include bugs as well or have a direct link on this page  . This has become the place to have a whinge and post grievances about the game so it would make sense to have a bug section linked to it . I think also it becomes a chore to log bugs these days . I know we need to upload files etc but urrrgh it's aggravating. The response times are not great either . I know its frustrating from both sides and personally think it needs a better system . 

@XaWhas slightly beaten me to the punch. But I had indeed intended to highlight some of the places its listed myself...

It's the largest part in the text listed at the top of GD. Given a larger font than even the promotion material for FM24:

Stickied in the topics a few below this one on GD from @JordanMilly :

---

In terms of actually addressing your other points though:

7 hours ago, alian62 said:

Would it not be a good idea then to monitor this forum just as intensely as the bug forum ?

I'm only a humble peon making my way through life and not burdened with the responsibility of assigning resources for a game development studio. However, the GD board has a miniscule percentage of bugs per 100 posts. Even generously I'd put it at <5% but I wouldn't be surprised if its <1%. To assign a QA team to comb threads looking for bugs here would be an enormous waste of time. Over on the bug tracker its practically shooting fish in a barrel. Some people post things that aren't bugs but being conservative 95% of posts over there are bugs. From time to time we moderators point out something isn't a bug or the CCE team will do so too. Those instances are few and far between.

7 hours ago, alian62 said:

This has become the place to have a whinge and post grievances about the game

Almost like... feedback? 

I think people do somewhat misunderstand what the bug tracker is. It's not a place for a long form discussion with QA or CCE on issues, there are some threads which require it to get a full understanding, but most simply won't. The main issue is to expedite the process of Issue Player A has found > SI's internal infrastructure. SI have a pretty elaborate set-up that helps get issues from these forums directly to their internal resources in a reliable, reproduceable and scalable manner. 

People may feel sometimes issues don't get replies but looking at the "Developer posts" tab next to the bug tracker. You will see the SI staff are posting day in, day out on the forums. 

[Weller1980]

17 hours ago, D-Foxx said:

If only the seller delivered what was promised eh? Imagine that eh?

Some of the bugs only appear when you're seasons in. Player development, youth development etc (the list is endless - don't get me started) These things don't bump into you when playing a demo. I agree with the fact that people (including myself) keep buying the product nevertheless but like I said - FM 25 will not be purchased by me. 

You do know deep down when you see the new ME graphics and watch the SI marketing campaign unfold you'll eventually change your mind and buy it, and no doubt regret it because of the endless amounts of bugs which will come with a new UI and ME Graphics. 

[moriartysb28]

why so late winter update? If I worked alone, I would complete the roster updates.

[Dedinho]

24 minutes ago, moriartysb28 said:

why so late winter update? If I worked alone, I would complete the roster updates.

Hopefully because they are ironing out the ME issues. Balanced ME could easily put FM 24 as by far the best version out to date. Easily.

I say that as someone who has played the vast majority of releases ever since FM 07.

[Rodrigogc]

9 minutos atrás, Dedinho disse:

Hopefully because they are ironing out the ME issues. Balanced ME could easily put FM 24 as by far the best version out to date. Easily.

I say that as someone who has played the vast majority of releases ever since FM 07.

Exactly. This version is like hanging on a fence and is literally some tweaks away from being the worst or the best FM version ever. 

[jc1]

Getting so fed up seeing loads of goals from corners.

[saiyaman]

3 hours ago, moriartysb28 said:

why so late winter update? If I worked alone, I would complete the roster updates.

 While free modders and people working in their spare time do a good job, there's also the additional aspect which people forget: SI has accountability since they release a paid product and have to support the patch which is released. Something which free modders won't have to worry about.

21 hours ago, forameuss said:

That's just a cop-out though.  You always have another option.  This isn't a human right product, or something that anyone has to have.  You can freely try the product prior to buying - something which SI deserve slight credit for given every other developer seems to have completely abandoned the practice - so if you try and think it isn't worth the money, then you're welcome to still buy because of some lack of willpower or whatever, but you kind of forfeit the right to complain about how "it's been going on for years now" when you're part of the reason why it is.  If you really want change, you need to actually do something about it, otherwise, like you say, you're giving the thumbs up, implicit approval in what SI are doing.  Why would they change then?

The text in bold is completely untrue. While you are right about the other aspects you've indicated in your post, you are objectively wrong for stating that a person who spent their money forfeits the right to complain about a bad product. (Now whether it's bad or good is entirely up to their subjective opinion)

Even if they did buy it with little self control the fact is it's their money and it's not your product. SI haven't had a stance of "don't complain if you buy it", they invite feedback. Your stance is wrong.

Edited February 15 by saiyaman
Context for explanation

[g1nh0]

3 hours ago, Dedinho said:

Hopefully because they are ironing out the ME issues. Balanced ME could easily put FM 24 as by far the best version out to date. Easily.

I say that as someone who has played the vast majority of releases ever since FM 07.

Agree with this. This year's game had so much potential - but from an ME perspective it's the worst of the recent game year's that I can remember.

Can only hope that for this final patch they will put the time and effort to put the major issues right. And if they do, it could end up being, for the most part, the game we wanted. (at release!)

Edited February 15 by g1nh0

[alian62]

7 hours ago, XaW said:

Sigh... It's on the top of EVERY page of the forum...

Yeah I didn't explain that part well so thanks for zeroing in on it rather than my other points.  I know those tabs are there but I was more thinking of a better way to go about bug reporting . Like a tab on every post if you want to log it as a bug . 😀

Edited February 15 by alian62

[Mush1983]

3 hours ago, moriartysb28 said:

why so late winter update? If I worked alone, I would complete the roster updates.

not late at all ,never usually drops till end of feb start of march, thats if they do it in 2 parts like they have last couple of years. and hopefully there fixing some bugs and giving us some were near the polished version we told it would be

[VoxduRaisin]

4 hours ago, moriartysb28 said:

why so late winter update? If I worked alone, I would complete the roster updates.

Of course you would. All those changes, just you alone. You would do this better than a whole company, even big clubs they're scouting departments would gawk and drop their jaw by your impeccable completion. It is a grand pity that you would do this and not be chairman of Manchester United and led them to world domination.

Edited February 15 by VoxduRaisin

[The About Average Jake]

18 hours ago, makavali said:

Has anyone actually seen a staff member who's progressing in terms of attributes? I'm pretty sure it was promised as a feature for this year's game. Am I dreaming? 

I'm in 2030 currently and I can't recall seeing any arrows. Just went through my whole staff (40 members in total) out of curiosity and I didn't see a single one. 

Yes, most of my staff have increased their attributes. I'm not sure if it's something that happens naturally over time or if its linked to the facilities at the club  but it definitely happens. Staff however unlike players don't have the visible green, yellow, red arrows to show improvement or decline.

 

Sometimes they develop to well and I lose them to other clubs. 

Edited February 15 by The About Average Jake

[Ein]

Staff can improve their attributes over time or by obtaining coaching qualifications (as long as their potential allows it). It's been like that before (not limited to FM 24). What should be new in FM24 is attributes changes being shown by arrows but this feature seems buggy (some get it and some don't).

[fc.cadoni]

8 hours ago, moriartysb28 said:

why so late winter update? If I worked alone, I would complete the roster updates.

It's not only EU. 

[Sir_Liam]

I went back to FM2023 a few weeks ago and I won't be returning to FM2024 as I don't think the match engine is very good.

Primarily there's too many set piece goals, particularly from short throw ins with goals from crosses after a throw in being particularly frustrating.  There's also too many goals from corners, and it's fair to say that I benefitted at times from that too with my centre back having a very prolific season on one of the 3 brief save games I attempted.  I also found that stronger teams were particularly dependent on set pieces with me conceding 4 goals from corners in 2 games against a Brazilian team in the Copa Libertadores.  I also feel far too many highlights start from set pieces, and it means that it's harder to pick up patterns of play when watching on extended highlights.  Ultimately a match where I lost 3-0 conceding 2 from indirect free kicks and 1 from a direct free kick was the final straw.  I do though like the set piece creator, it's a great idea and works well in terms of setting up my set pieces.  It was probably a key reason I stuck with FM24 as long as I did.

The other main frustration is how overpowered Gegenpress styles are, and how weak a lower block counter attacking style is.  On FM2023 I played 3 quite different systems that I was able to get working effectively in a realistic way.  On FM2024 after struggles without using Gegenpress on my first save game I started again at River Plate in Argentina and whilst I know they're a good side I played Gegenpress and won my first 20 league games, with my team only ending the run once I had to rotate the squad when the Libertadores started.  It felt easy.  In my 3rd save game I started in Peru where regular games at high altitude mean aggressive pressing isn't possible all the time, and my squad wasn't suited to it either.  It was such a struggle trying to put together even a semi-effective tactic that didn't involve Gegenpressing though and I feel like the game forces you down the Gegenpressing path, whereas I've always liked to play a variety of styles.

I also feel like the "positional play" feature is incomplete.  For example these positional rotations seem to only involve roles whose base position is deeper such as an inverted wing back or segundo volante.  Other roles such as inside forward or deep lying forward should surely have these rotations where appropriate.  I also feel like I have a lack of control over my players as they sometimes move into unexpected positions even when there's no obvious teammate to rotate with.  For example my AMC in a diamond midfield kept positioning himself to the right no matter what role I gave him when I wanted him to be central and float to both side where appropriate.  I also saw an inverted wing back with a defend duty go charging forward when my team had a cautious mentality for no obvious reason.  I think in future games you need to be much clearer about the positions players will take up in your selected tactic as you can no longer rely on the description of the role being enough.

Finally the match engine feels too unpredictable, which ties in with the lack of control I feel at times.  I played one team and battered them in the first meeting, only to get battered myself in the 2nd meeting just a few weeks later.  No 2 games are the same but the complete change in the way the match played out didn't feel realistic.  The final game of that save game saw me 3-0 down after 6 minutes and 4-0 down after 20 minutes against the best team in the league.  I made some changes to my tactic at half time which involved opposition instructions of tight marking, always closing down and hard tackling all wide players, never tight marking or closing down all central players and setting my pressing trap to trap inside whilst playing a 4-4-2.  It ended 4-3 and I was very close to getting an equaliser.  I should never have been able to get back into the game doing that and stopped playing that save game afterwards.

I'm not one to complain too much about FM games.  There's always things that annoy me of course but they tend to be minor.  Only once before have I returned to a previous version and that version was FM2008, and although I did later return to it I felt the match engine was never good enough in that game.  I'm getting similar vibes with FM2024, although this time I won't be returning.

[whatsupdoc]

24 minutes ago, Sir_Liam said:

I went back to FM2023 a few weeks ago and I won't be returning to FM2024 as I don't think the match engine is very good.

Primarily there's too many set piece goals, particularly from short throw ins with goals from crosses after a throw in being particularly frustrating.  There's also too many goals from corners, and it's fair to say that I benefitted at times from that too with my centre back having a very prolific season on one of the 3 brief save games I attempted.  I also found that stronger teams were particularly dependent on set pieces with me conceding 4 goals from corners in 2 games against a Brazilian team in the Copa Libertadores.  I also feel far too many highlights start from set pieces, and it means that it's harder to pick up patterns of play when watching on extended highlights.  Ultimately a match where I lost 3-0 conceding 2 from indirect free kicks and 1 from a direct free kick was the final straw.  I do though like the set piece creator, it's a great idea and works well in terms of setting up my set pieces.  It was probably a key reason I stuck with FM24 as long as I did.

The other main frustration is how overpowered Gegenpress styles are, and how weak a lower block counter attacking style is.  On FM2023 I played 3 quite different systems that I was able to get working effectively in a realistic way.  On FM2024 after struggles without using Gegenpress on my first save game I started again at River Plate in Argentina and whilst I know they're a good side I played Gegenpress and won my first 20 league games, with my team only ending the run once I had to rotate the squad when the Libertadores started.  It felt easy.  In my 3rd save game I started in Peru where regular games at high altitude mean aggressive pressing isn't possible all the time, and my squad wasn't suited to it either.  It was such a struggle trying to put together even a semi-effective tactic that didn't involve Gegenpressing though and I feel like the game forces you down the Gegenpressing path, whereas I've always liked to play a variety of styles.

I also feel like the "positional play" feature is incomplete.  For example these positional rotations seem to only involve roles whose base position is deeper such as an inverted wing back or segundo volante.  Other roles such as inside forward or deep lying forward should surely have these rotations where appropriate.  I also feel like I have a lack of control over my players as they sometimes move into unexpected positions even when there's no obvious teammate to rotate with.  For example my AMC in a diamond midfield kept positioning himself to the right no matter what role I gave him when I wanted him to be central and float to both side where appropriate.  I also saw an inverted wing back with a defend duty go charging forward when my team had a cautious mentality for no obvious reason.  I think in future games you need to be much clearer about the positions players will take up in your selected tactic as you can no longer rely on the description of the role being enough.

Finally the match engine feels too unpredictable, which ties in with the lack of control I feel at times.  I played one team and battered them in the first meeting, only to get battered myself in the 2nd meeting just a few weeks later.  No 2 games are the same but the complete change in the way the match played out didn't feel realistic.  The final game of that save game saw me 3-0 down after 6 minutes and 4-0 down after 20 minutes against the best team in the league.  I made some changes to my tactic at half time which involved opposition instructions of tight marking, always closing down and hard tackling all wide players, never tight marking or closing down all central players and setting my pressing trap to trap inside whilst playing a 4-4-2.  It ended 4-3 and I was very close to getting an equaliser.  I should never have been able to get back into the game doing that and stopped playing that save game afterwards.

I'm not one to complain too much about FM games.  There's always things that annoy me of course but they tend to be minor.  Only once before have I returned to a previous version and that version was FM2008, and although I did later return to it I felt the match engine was never good enough in that game.  I'm getting similar vibes with FM2024, although this time I won't be returning.

Great summary imo 👏

[g1nh0]

Absolutely a great summary, really nice details and most definitely FM23 was a match engine that was a big step in the right direction with tactical styles more varied - I will never understand why they decided to regress the game so massively for this year.

[kiwityke1983]

Am I the only person loving FM24?

[fc.cadoni]

2 hours ago, kiwityke1983 said:

Am I the only person loving FM24?

Nope!

[XaW]

2 hours ago, kiwityke1983 said:

Am I the only person loving FM24?

It has its flaws, but I'm closing in on 900 hours now, so I'd say I'm getting value!

Most of what I feel the game has issues with a the smaller touches. The overall big things work great, I love the ME, squad management are improved, longevity is much better than previous versions, transfers feel more real. My main gripe is it feels a bit unpolished. There are some niggles and small flaws around, and I think the game as a whole needs more care in that regard, the attention to small details and to fix some annoyances and bugs.

[kiwityke1983]

50 minutes ago, XaW said:

It has its flaws, but I'm closing in on 900 hours now, so I'd say I'm getting value!

Most of what I feel the game has issues with a the smaller touches. The overall big things work great, I love the ME, squad management are improved, longevity is much better than previous versions, transfers feel more real. My main gripe is it feels a bit unpolished. There are some niggles and small flaws around, and I think the game as a whole needs more care in that regard, the attention to small details and to fix some annoyances and bugs.

I agree the game has flaws but nothing that would have me even considering going back to FM23.

Only 1 FM of recent years has had me delete it and reload an earlier version (I think FM21).

So far in FM24 I've had two long term careers and I'd rank them as two of my more memorable saves I've had in recent years only bettered by a bonkers career I had in Slovenia in FM22 where I created a crazy regista powered 3-5-2 formation.

Those two saves have been so memorable because I've done it using different formations and tactics, a mid-block counter attacking 4-4-2 diamond won me the Asian Champions league and currently a 2-3-2-2-1 control possession is dominating Scotland.

Edited February 16 by kiwityke1983

[Costav]

9 hours ago, Sir_Liam said:

Finally the match engine feels too unpredictable, which ties in with the lack of control I feel at times.  I played one team and battered them in the first meeting, only to get battered myself in the 2nd meeting just a few weeks later.  No 2 games are the same but the complete change in the way the match played out didn't feel realistic. 

And this is exactly what means to have a "quasi"-realistic game. 
Thank you very much, your explanation is the best argument for those doubting the improved realism of the ME.

[rosshull346]

51 minutes ago, XaW said:

It has its flaws, but I'm closing in on 900 hours now, so I'd say I'm getting value!

Most of what I feel the game has issues with a the smaller touches. The overall big things work great, I love the ME, squad management are improved, longevity is much better than previous versions, transfers feel more real. My main gripe is it feels a bit unpolished. There are some niggles and small flaws around, and I think the game as a whole needs more care in that regard, the attention to small details and to fix some annoyances and bugs.

The main flaw is AI managers. Leaving massive players out of squads for 0 reason. It’s unacceptable and ruins any sort of immersion 

[NineCloudNine]

The things that irritate me about FM24 are the same things which have irritated me for several versions - dumb press conferences, weird player & agent interactions, the impenetrable and sometimes willfully confusing interface, the mess that is the tactics creator. My irritation is magnified by these having been regular complaints for years, yet nothing having changed while the devs are told instead to produce new features that no-one asked for.

There is much to like about 24 aside from those running frustrations. Positional play is a joy, the set piece wizard is excellent, transfers are much easier and less frustrating, squad management is smoother.

I’m fine with the ME even if gegenpressing and physical attributes do remain overpowered. I have said on other threads that I suspect SI know this and don’t know how to change it because the ME has become a black box that no-one fully understands.

Edited February 16 by NineCloudNine

[XaW]

9 minutes ago, rosshull346 said:

The main flaw is AI managers. Leaving massive players out of squads for 0 reason. It’s unacceptable and ruins any sort of immersion 

I've heard reports, but haven't seen it myself. I hope everyone who experience it report it to SI.

[Etebaer]

People say FM is easy.

This person having a real club football podcast since many years is mostly a beginner at FM struggling to get good results with a not so bad team (Hertha BSC):

Could be that FM is one of the games that is hard to learn but easy to master?

[NineCloudNine]

39 minutes ago, Etebaer said:

Could be that FM is one of the games that is hard to learn but easy to master?

Yes. Once you figure out what works and how to get the right things in place, it all becomes much more straightforward and less daunting.

The opposite is also true - things can spiral downhill very quickly and it can be hard to recover. This may be an accurate reflection of real life football, but it can make for a dispiriting game experience.

The challenge is that the game interface almost actively works against you. Lots of system interactions are unintuitive, words don’t mean what you think they mean and mean different things in different places, it’s really easy to miss things and there is essentially zero guidance in-game.

I’d love to know what proportion of FM buyers only ever log a few hours. I bet it’s quite high. I think the game is overly complex and I’ve been playing FM since it was CM. Coming to it fresh now I’m not sure I’d persevere. 

[Dotsworthy]

55 minutes ago, NineCloudNine said:

The challenge is that the game interface almost actively works against you. Lots of system interactions are unintuitive, words don’t mean what you think they mean and mean different things in different places, it’s really easy to miss things and there is essentially zero guidance in-game.

I think this is the core of a lot of people's frustrations with player interactions in the game. It's the only area where your assistant gives little to no advice, the reward for a positive interaction is a slight bump in morale, but the consequences for getting it wrong can be an angry player for a couple of months.

As a system it is fine and can add to the immersion once you understand the quirks of it but for new players I don't know how they are supposed to work it out.

Edited February 16 by Dotsworthy

[kiwityke1983]

2 hours ago, Dotsworthy said:

I think this is the core of a lot of people's frustrations with player interactions in the game. It's the only area where your assistant gives little to no advice, the reward for a positive interaction is a slight bump in morale, but the consequences for getting it wrong can be an angry player for a couple of months.

As a system it is fine and can add to the immersion once you understand the quirks of it but for new players I don't know how they are supposed to work it out.

The problem is once you understand the quirks of it, it becomes nothing more than select X response because everything else will cause a negative reaction and X causes the most positive one...except when it inexplicably doesn't due to RNG!

Which unless you are really committed to role playing and damn the consequences just makes it a chore to interact with beyond the first few weeks if any FM cycle.

[Hzano123]

54 minutes ago, kiwityke1983 said:

The problem is once you understand the quirks of it, it becomes nothing more than select X response because everything else will cause a negative reaction and X causes the most positive one...except when it inexplicably doesn't due to RNG!

Which unless you are really committed to role playing and damn the consequences just makes it a chore to interact with beyond the first few weeks if any FM cycle.

Agree some players should feel motinvated when we say some negative things about them. Looking at you Jose Mourinho 

[D-Foxx]

So I went from unbeatable (see below) to an absolute trainwreck overnight. No tactical changes, no injuries, no unhappy players. Nothing changed. Same players, same tactic. Welcome to FM 24

 

[Nick_CB]

1 minuto atrás, D-Foxx disse:

So I went from unbeatable (see below) to an absolute trainwreck overnight. No tactical changes, no injuries, no unhappy players. Nothing changed. Same players, same tactic. Welcome to FM 24

 

Brazilian Championship: 2023

[KeegBCFC]

I have many, many fewer hours in this FM than I have previous. I just can't find the motivation to play the game after being let down by SI's promise of "the most polished version of the game to date".

 

It's really sad that the game gets worse every year. I cannot actually remember the last time a new feature was added that a) worked or b) was any good. This year we had actual fixes marketed as headline features, and still didn't work. For me, that is unforgivable. 

 

I have finally given up on SI. 

[Kevinho7]

Would be greatly appreciated if the team at least puts out some kind of transparent heads up on what they’re working on right now. Whether it’s just a winter transfers update, or changes to the game/ME as well. What can we all expect? 

Doesn’t have to be a long thread at all, just a plain and simple message to their community 🙂

[TioPatinhax]

Em 15/02/2024 em 12:00, Rodrigogc disse:

Exactly. This version is like hanging on a fence and is literally some tweaks away from being the worst or the best FM version ever. 

Why do you say that?

[Rodrigogc]

20 minutos atrás, TioPatinhax disse:

Why do you say that?

Because the ME has improved a lot compared to last versions, the new set piece creator is great addition, the agents are a great idea...

The problem is that everything is not working properly. I mean:

- Scouting not working properly
- ME has got its issues 

- Set pieces seem OP 

- Interactions not making sense...

 

I'm not sure whether a patch would fix all of these things, but the fact is that some tweaks around those areas mentioned above would massively improve the quality of play. The game has got many features, but they need fixing. So, if not fixed, FM24 will be pending to be a compromising version as it is right now, but if fixed, it will be the best version ever, 

It's like an unfinished song that just needs a better bridge or outro to be a masterpiece, but without it feels incomplete and shallow. 

[Dedinho]

2 hours ago, Rodrigogc said:

Because the ME has improved a lot compared to last versions, the new set piece creator is great addition, the agents are a great idea...

The problem is that everything is not working properly. I mean:

- Scouting not working properly
- ME has got its issues 

- Set pieces seem OP 

- Interactions not making sense...

 

I'm not sure whether a patch would fix all of these things, but the fact is that some tweaks around those areas mentioned above would massively improve the quality of play. The game has got many features, but they need fixing. So, if not fixed, FM24 will be pending to be a compromising version as it is right now, but if fixed, it will be the best version ever, 

It's like an unfinished song that just needs a better bridge or outro to be a masterpiece, but without it feels incomplete and shallow. 

Meh, I'd be completely content with ME being more balanced out.

It's really killing the experience when:

- You're analyzing the squad you have (5 world class players, 9 good premier division players, 9 decent premier division players with high potential), creating a tactic that suits your squad's strength, thinking about if do x then y will suffer or vice versa, and trying to adjust everyting as perfectly as you can, just to end up losing 3 out of 5 league matches where your xG was 2.50-3,10 and your opponents was 0.40-0.70, just to then return to your tactics creator and in 50 seconds set "high press, high tempo, tackle harder..." and end up winning the next 6 games, even if the xG differences between you and the teams you were playing against weren't as high as they were when you were playing more cautiously with positive mentality, slightly shorter passing and shorter tempo, playing a mid-block/standard defensive line.

- Your team having 20 shots, 11 on target, your opponents having 3 shots and 2 on target and the game finishing 1:1 - I know, it happens in football, and that's why we love the game, but not every 4-5 games.

- Seeing your 2.5 stars striker (decent premier division player) in your 4-3-3 or 4-2-3-1 formation scoring 13 league goals one season, 12 the next - and then splashing out 110 mil. on a 4.5 stars world class striker just to have him score 10 league goals the first season and then 12 the next.

- Being in the title run (English premier league) and finishing 3rd with ultra aggressive gegenpress, not selling any of your key players, but actually adding one or two because you'll be playing in Champions League the next season, so you will need more quality in your rotation, and adjusting your tactics to a more real-life sensible approach because deep down you know that if a team played that style of football the whole season 1. they'd start dropping like flies within first 10 games, 2. Premier division teams would DEMOLISH them due to your goalkeeper being basically the only player in your own half for 87 minutes of the game - just to end up in a relegation battle, finishing the season in 16th, while being 3rd and in the title run until Matchday 36 the season prior.

I could go on.

It may feel harsh what I have written, but this is not frustration or intended as criticism towards SI, it's just disappointment because the idea of ME in FM24  being better is absolutely mouthwatering, given how much potential this game has. Even if the interactions and scouting are not perfect, I can still live with it, but I cannot with the current state of the ME. And the end of the day, football is all about results - if the dynamics of delivering the results is out of whack (whether in favor of me when I play aggresive gegenpress every game for 90 minutes or in favor of AI when I try to play more sensible version of football), then nothing else matters.

I am a software developer myself, working on projects much less complex and smaller than Football Manager game, so I can only imagine how much stuff the dev team has to pay attention to. It cannot be easy. I am not bashing SI, I am rooting for them.

If one could somehow put FM 17 ME into this FM 24 game - no one would see me for weeks probably. It has that much potential.

Here's hoping the final patch addresses at least the most critical ME issues.
 

Edited February 16 by Dedinho
typos

[XaW]

4 hours ago, D-Foxx said:

So I went from unbeatable (see below) to an absolute trainwreck overnight. No tactical changes, no injuries, no unhappy players. Nothing changed. Same players, same tactic. Welcome to FM 24

 

Complacency. See Liverpool the season they won the league when they bombed to Watford.

Look at the results before you lost a lot, a poor home draw, barely won at home. Nice win in Europe, but then a narrow win again before the losses started. And you also narrowly lost, so this is more than likely down to complacency of the players making them not give 100%. The signs were there, you need to deal with it before it happens.

[Iakovenko]

7 hours ago, Kevinho7 said:

Would be greatly appreciated if the team at least puts out some kind of transparent heads up on what they’re working on right now. Whether it’s just a winter transfers update, or changes to the game/ME as well. What can we all expect? 

Doesn’t have to be a long thread at all, just a plain and simple message to their community 🙂

They did back in November for the early December update with a "stay tuned for future updates" which never came. Thought it was going to be a great ongoing thing but unfortunately just a one off

[janesy20]

On 12/02/2024 at 12:29, whatsupdoc said:

Fairly certain there are no ME changes coming in the final patch...

I hope you like goals from throw ins...

I thought the throw ins thing was just me

[Etebaer]

vor 8 Stunden schrieb XaW:

Complacency. See Liverpool the season they won the league when they bombed to Watford.

Look at the results before you lost a lot, a poor home draw, barely won at home. Nice win in Europe, but then a narrow win again before the losses started. And you also narrowly lost, so this is more than likely down to complacency of the players making them not give 100%. The signs were there, you need to deal with it before it happens.

I have also the thesis that a good captain will smooth such things out and helps the resolve of a team.