FM23 Headline Features Revealed

[Volband]

26 minutes ago, el_manayer said:

Yeah, that was me! It is fun that you only take the last and less important point of the issues I mentioned, and I only gave it as example of the many small stuff that in my opinion are wrongly done. But yes, it was a complaint more about the laziness of the devs than the game itself. The fact that the game introduced an ugly picture of an office with the goal of making the game "more immersive", but it only resulted in a single click on some dialogue with the same ugly background picture no matter where you are... doesn't make the game more immersive, it just makes the game a bit more annoying because you unnecessarily change to a whole new screen just so you can see the background. It was something that in previous versions you could do without the screen changing stuff. So yeap, if you are moving me to a new screen only to show me the background, you'd better work a little bit on it, don't you think? At least some variety. So yes, my happiness level went a little up when I read that they added a couple of more pictures there. I wish you could feel the same joy as I do right now because of this

I didn't remember your whole post, it just sticked with me that someone definitely mentioned it as an issue, and now that they fixed it, someone else immediately jumps in and ridicules it. To me, it encapsulates all the childish behaviour which is wrong with almost every gaming community. And I'm something of a veteran myself, because it's been what feels like an eternity of reading "VOTE WITH YOUR WALLET!! THIS IS UNACCEPTABLE!!!!" on /r/hearthstone yet everyone still buys and it, everyone enjoys it, then everyone complains again. Similar thing is happening with FM - the negative nancies have their season of ******** on everything, then it all calms down as we move on to discuss the new game and our fun saves, tragic misfortune, soon to be poached wonderkids, etc.

I do think the small stuff are important, so I get where you are coming from. What irks me is the demagogue way people wind themselves and others up into a circlejerk. Once again, a bunch of new improvements were just announced, and some of the reddit and si forum comedians go for the lowest hanging fruit  and make fun of the background changes. Makes you question their reading comprehensibility, because it is literally listed under "miscellaneous", right after the other, more impactful features. It's just annoying that so many people are here (and on other social platforms) just to get annoyed and be cynical.

 

Edited October 19, 2022 by Volband

[KeiranShikari]

11 minutes ago, themadsheep2001 said:

They did a whole blog and thread on it. I'll see if I can find, but long story short, if they hit even half of what they're aiming for it will be the biggest change in the game in years, because a lot of the changes and additions would benefit all of FM. 

https://www.footballmanager.com/news/how-were-introducing-womens-football-football-manager

 

'To get our women’s database right we will have to examine every single in-game attribute and define exactly how we judge the data; attributes such as pace, acceleration and agility will likely stay with the same range, but some attributes may need a different scale. These attributes also feed into our match engine of course, and work done in this area (for example, looking at height of players and how that may affect how they play – such as aiming shots higher if a goalkeeper is smaller) will be of benefit for the match engine overall.'

I think this is definitely part of what I wanted to hear. I also really want to see the cowboys in the match engine.

Can absolutely see how advancements made here will benefit other aspects of the game. One of my biggest wants for the game is for leagues around the world to feel more authentic in style, tempo and rhythm. This along with improved manager AI (which I assume will be an ongoing project) should/could help that. 

[MBarbaric]

32 minuti fa, KeiranShikari ha scritto:

On ladies football, I'm really interested to see how SI integrate the stark differences into the match engine. If it actually feels different to watching the men's game then I'll absolutely play it. 

Also really hope they go pretty deep into the league systems as my local women's team are in the 3rd or 4th tier. Surely they won't do a fifa and just do international - Nobody cares about international management, right SI.

in a way you already play it Current game lacks phisicality, pushing, pulling... and it very much looks like a proper ladies top level football. 

[KeiranShikari]

3 minutes ago, MBarbaric said:

in a way you already play it Current game lacks phisicality, pushing, pulling... and it very much looks like a proper ladies top level football. 

Well if you think about it that way. 

I always felt the game felt more like a cross between ice hockey and football, without the scraps of course.

Edited October 19, 2022 by KeiranShikari

[MBarbaric]

38 minuti fa, KeiranShikari ha scritto:

Well if you think about it that way. 

I always felt the game felt more like a cross between ice hockey and football, without the scraps of course.

imagine if they improved the graphics. they would have to make ice rink obvious and then it would be clear all the games are actually not played in a stadium.

[2feet]

 

   4 hours ago,  dino88 said: 

Also, no offense.. but who's actually going to play womans football?

Women ? 

----

Hopefully they will develop the immersion part of the game at the same time as introducing female football. Otherwise I doubt many female players will put up with the game as it currently is (off the pitch) and won't become fans of the game.

[DementedHammer]

Does anybody know if those two blokes and Miles are going to do their annual match engine preview this year, or has that also been canned? 

It's getting mighty close to that time of the release cycle. I'm starting to get quite excited about getting my hands on the beta. 

Edited October 19, 2022 by DementedHammer

[Artin]

48 minutes ago, DementedHammer said:

Does anybody know if those two blokes and Miles are going to do their annual match engine preview this year, or has that also been canned? 

It's getting mighty close to that time of the release cycle. I'm starting to get quite excited about getting my hands on the beta. 

this has been replaced by youtubers/twitch streamers doing the match engine preview

don't have the playlist link but there's like 12 videos now...

[ryanlion28]

I can't believe even with the FMFC blog today they've still failed to acknowledge anything about dynamic youth rating. Something they made a big deal about prior to FM22's release that was debunked on forums and a very popular video from Zealand. Have they fixed the issues with it? Will it be the same as FM22? The latter seems more likely

[2feet]

- What are the Quality of Life improvements in the blog?

 

- I also think it's really cr*p how SI Games are now making forum users sign up to their blog, and in doing so give up all their data to Sega, just in order to read a list of updates.

After all the time and energy people on the forums contribute with goodwill (and no payment), the company now want to push it further and extract even more profit out of us by selling off our data.

Kind of sickening when you think about it.

Edited October 19, 2022 by 2feet

[FelixForte]

Anyone also quite happy that they’ve now fixed youth teams?

[ImDaWeasel]

23 minutes ago, ryanlion28 said:

I can't believe even with the FMFC blog today they've still failed to acknowledge anything about dynamic youth rating. Something they made a big deal about prior to FM22's release that was debunked on forums and a very popular video from Zealand. Have they fixed the issues with it? Will it be the same as FM22? The latter seems more likely

Dynamic youth rating is in there, it just isn't as dynamic as most thought it would be, much like how dynamic the new supporter confidence is. 

They like to add "dynamic" to different areas whilst making them as least dynamic as possible.

[Mars_Blackmon]

1 hour ago, ryanlion28 said:

I can't believe even with the FMFC blog today they've still failed to acknowledge anything about dynamic youth rating. Something they made a big deal about prior to FM22's release that was debunked on forums and a very popular video from Zealand. Have they fixed the issues with it? Will it be the same as FM22? The latter seems more likely

Until international management is revamped, I don't think that's going to be touched. In a sense, they are related. The management of a club can only enhance a nation to a certain extent, which is what it is currently doing.

Edited October 19, 2022 by Mars_Blackmon

[Yellowbucket58]

It’s nice to know they fixed or at least tweaked newgen generation. Some of the regens, if not most of them had really strange attribute spread. Attributes such as crossing, dribbling, heading, finishing were at a premium as soon a save progressed 15+ years and the database was mostly all regens. It doesn’t really affect the user as they are able to retrain and focus on certain attributes to improve, but the AI doesn’t really do that, so it lead to AI teams using players in positions and roles they didn’t have proper attributes for. For example, as a save progresses there’s always a dearth of wingbacks/fullbacks with proper crossing/dribbling, and because the AI isn’t really developing these attributes they’ll play players with abysmal ratings in said attributes, which probably isn’t great for the AI team’s performance across seasons.

I’ve been able to manually fix this with a mass editor that allows me to tweak the ratings of regens, and it overall does a good in balancing regen attributes. Here’s a report I did on regen attribute spread, which should come in handy when testing for this years changes. Will report what I find.

 

[janrzm]

From the FMFC blog post. "There are also improved AI decisions across the game" Just one line but its potentially such a big deal. Let's hope it extends to squad building and the AI will be more aware, more active, more assertive and it won't be quite so easy to sign the best players. Sometimes to the point where you have to stop yourself from signing them.

Edited October 19, 2022 by janrzm

[busngabb]

Is there any improvement to stadiums in Football Manager? It seems like such an easy thing to fix. Just allow a model editor and let the community do the work for you. Avoids any rights issues then too.

Moving into Bramley Moore Dock and it's 50,000+ capacity and see it have a stand that is behind the goal and not joined to the other stands at the corners, with a burger van and a bin on display, with a street behind it is a bit off putting.

[busngabb]

7 minutes ago, janrzm said:

From the FMFC blog post. "There are also improved transfer AI decisions across the game" Just one line on this but its potentially such a big deal. Hopefully the AI will be more aware, more active, more assertive and it won't be quite so easy to sign the best players, sometimes to the point where you have to stop yourself signing them.

If they just stopped AI teams from being so delighted to accept installments for players they want to keep it would make the game significantly more difficult. An £80m budget can see you sign £200m worth of players easily at the moment.

[FrazT]

@Aim_Less  I have hidden you last post- There are no issues with constructive criticism of the developers and the game, but your first sentence was uncalled for and disrespectful. 

[Aim_Less]

18 minutes ago, FrazT said:

@Aim_Less  I have hidden you last post- There are no issues with constructive criticism of the developers and the game, but your first sentence was uncalled for and disrespectful. 

So me saying that SI actions so far are making people angry is worthy of censorship? because that was the first sentence . and comparing the actions from SI marketing decisions to other game devs.
And when in regards to the use of "influencers"
Oh well ...

Edited October 20, 2022 by Aim_Less

[themadsheep2001]

1 minute ago, Aim_Less said:

so me saying that SI actions so far are making people angry is worthy of censorship? because that was the first sentence 

It really wasn't what you said, and you know it, so take what FrazT said on board.

[Aim_Less]

27 minutes ago, themadsheep2001 said:

It really wasn't what you said, and you know it, so take what FrazT said on board.

I edited my post with more clarification but its clearly a battle cannot be won on my side . either way i am voting with my wallet this year and will be the first year i am not giving money to SI .
Any criticism of the game so far has been met with silence on part of SI . And its all downhill from here .

Edited October 20, 2022 by Aim_Less

[alian62]

4 hours ago, 2feet said:

- What are the Quality of Life improvements in the blog?

 

- I also think it's really cr*p how SI Games are now making forum users sign up to their blog, and in doing so give up all their data to Sega, just in order to read a list of updates.

After all the time and energy people on the forums contribute with goodwill (and no payment), the company now want to push it further and extract even more profit out of us by selling off our data.

Kind of sickening when you think about it.

Sign up , read or copy and paste it then cancel it

[2feet]

1 hour ago, prot651 said:

Sign up , read or copy and paste it then cancel it

After you delete your account, your data is only anonymised, not deleted.

It's really not difficult for other companies to quickly identify you from "anonymised" data.

In other words, you data stays out there, and is used for whatever they want.

Did you actually read the terms and conditions? 

If you did then you would have seen this:

"The provisions of Sections 12, 13, 14, 15, 18, 19, 20, 21 shall survive any termination of this Agreement."

So all these sections will "survive termination" (what a wonderfully profitable phrase) and continue to stay live and allow them to continue exploiting you:

Intellectual Property Rights, User-Generated Content, No sale or assignment, Indemnification, Injunction, Data Protection, Limits on our liability and your rights, For residents in the United States and Canada – Binding Arbitration and Class Action Waiver

Don't SI Games treat their customers so well?

And all just so we can read some updates on the game that so many here contribute their spare time towards helping improve.

[santy001]

I'm not big on signing up for stuff either so I can see the point to an extent, but the Steam EULA and the FM EULA presumably already allow data collection/sharing on various things. I'm rather sceptical of any of the sites I click explicitly not to allow the collection/sharing of data on not doing so anyway. Practically any modicum of privacy online from data being scanned/collected vanished the best part of a decade ago. 

Legal documents rarely tend to read well. I tend to see FM being the way it is as still being treated well, there's no expectation that after I get the game I have to keep buying things. There's no lootboxes, no seasonal resets to in turn push the sale of further lootboxes. Draft mode hasn't become a buy packs of players and take your team online to face others type deal. Miles also hasn't tried to pitch us on players being NFT's that we can buy and trade like Ubisoft planned. I had to sign up for an Activision account to play CoD a long time ago, I had to sign up to get a uPlay account for Assassin's Creed etc also a long time ago. In order to get RDR2 working I had to sign up for a Rockstar account. This was despite them all being done through other launchers/platforms (Bnet, xbox/playstation consoles or steam). 

At the end of the day its not my place to tell you that you're wrong to feel the way you do, but consider it in the wider context of the industry. If anything SI are about 5 years behind the times on this front. It is for sure a sad reality though that none of us can just get a fairly plain text web page or text file in with the game that explains the situation. I feel like I haven't seen a plain list of patch notes for example just black text on a white background in a .txt file for about 15 years though.

[bahmet]

3 часа назад, busngabb сказал:

Если бы они просто помешали командам ИИ с таким удовольствием принимать рассрочки для игроков, которых они хотят оставить, это значительно усложнило бы игру. Бюджет в 80 миллионов фунтов стерлингов позволяет легко подписать игроков на 200 миллионов фунтов стерлингов в данный момент.

You may not use installments and that's it.

[alian62]

1 hour ago, 2feet said:

After you delete your account, your data is only anonymised, not deleted.

It's really not difficult for other companies to quickly identify you from "anonymised" data.

In other words, you data stays out there, and is used for whatever they want.

Did you actually read the terms and conditions? 

If you did then you would have seen this:

"The provisions of Sections 12, 13, 14, 15, 18, 19, 20, 21 shall survive any termination of this Agreement."

So all these sections will "survive termination" (what a wonderfully profitable phrase) and continue to stay live and allow them to continue exploiting you:

Intellectual Property Rights, User-Generated Content, No sale or assignment, Indemnification, Injunction, Data Protection, Limits on our liability and your rights, For residents in the United States and Canada – Binding Arbitration and Class Action Waiver

Don't SI Games treat their customers so well?

And all just so we can read some updates on the game that so many here contribute their spare time towards helping improve.

Thanking you for your wise reply but our private info is already out there . Unless you live under a rock your info is gathered thousands of ways . Banks , Car loans , Shopping online etc etc . Even Football Manager has your info . 

 

Edited October 20, 2022 by alian62

[Just4Downloads]

6 hours ago, busngabb said:

If they just stopped AI teams from being so delighted to accept installments for players they want to keep it would make the game significantly more difficult. An £80m budget can see you sign £200m worth of players easily at the moment.

I guess it is very difficult to get right considering 99% of teams in real life will pay through instalments rather than all upfront. Need some sort of limiter though. 

[b.sinisa]

will there going to be a beta today?

[Volband]

3 hours ago, 2feet said:

After you delete your account, your data is only anonymised, not deleted.

It's really not difficult for other companies to quickly identify you from "anonymised" data.

In other words, you data stays out there, and is used for whatever they want.

Did you actually read the terms and conditions? 

If you did then you would have seen this:

"The provisions of Sections 12, 13, 14, 15, 18, 19, 20, 21 shall survive any termination of this Agreement."

So all these sections will "survive termination" (what a wonderfully profitable phrase) and continue to stay live and allow them to continue exploiting you:

Intellectual Property Rights, User-Generated Content, No sale or assignment, Indemnification, Injunction, Data Protection, Limits on our liability and your rights, For residents in the United States and Canada – Binding Arbitration and Class Action Waiver

Don't SI Games treat their customers so well?

And all just so we can read some updates on the game that so many here contribute their spare time towards helping improve.

How will we sleep at night now? Sure, my bank, phone company and other various applications I have know everything about me already, but Sega? Sega knowing the bare minimum about me is where I draw the line.

 

Real life Chuck Mcgills here...

[Tonton_Zola]

14 hours ago, el_manayer said:

Yeah, that was me! It is fun that you only take the last and less important point of the issues I mentioned, and I only gave it as example of the many small stuff that in my opinion are wrongly done. But yes, it was a complaint more about the laziness of the devs than the game itself. The fact that the game introduced an ugly picture of an office with the goal of making the game "more immersive", but it only resulted in a single click on some dialogue with the same ugly background picture no matter where you are... doesn't make the game more immersive, it just makes the game a bit more annoying because you unnecessarily change to a whole new screen just so you can see the background. It was something that in previous versions you could do without the screen changing stuff. So yeap, if you are moving me to a new screen only to show me the background, you'd better work a little bit on it, don't you think? At least some variety. So yes, my happiness level went a little up when I read that they added a couple of more pictures there. I wish you could feel the same joy as I do right now because of this

Yeah I think it’s the sheer mystery of some of this stuff that has begun to grate.

Making that office screen better, or creating 12 different variants of it, should literally take a day max? I mean, if it’s not integrated into a wider three dimensional environment experience, why not just take 12 royalty free photographs (or illustrator graphical renders) of different offices from different  locations…perhaps scaled against size and location?

If you want a graphical style, no problem, I could do this in 10 minutes using DALL E if I wanted?

I am pushing the point, but WHY (along with so many other graphical irritations) does this stuff not get changed? It begins to border on an elaborate practical joke. 
 

 

 

 

[Tonton_Zola]

Usual arguments about “wider implications for AI” do not apply.

the picnic tables, the poorly rendered random stadium furniture, the lack of graphical or immersive scaling/variation in background screens - you could put two of us in the code for about a day and we could sort this out!

Am I wrong? Tell me if I am 

 

[DP]

1 minute ago, Tonton_Zola said:

Usual arguments about “wider implications for AI” do not apply.

the picnic tables, the poorly rendered random stadium furniture, the lack of graphical or immersive scaling/variation in background screens - you could put two of us in the code for about a day and we could sort this out!

Am I wrong? Tell me if I am 

 

If the priorities are elsewhere - ie fixing this module from the ground up behind the scenes - then they may not want to be touching ‘legacy’ stuff too much. I can see an argument for that. 

[Tonton_Zola]

1 minute ago, DP said:

If the priorities are elsewhere - ie fixing this module from the ground up behind the scenes - then they may not want to be touching ‘legacy’ stuff too much. I can see an argument for that. 

Can see the argument, but feels like a pragmatism that borders on the pig-headed. You have a core user base up in arms about some of this stuff. If it’s a day of somebody junior’s life and it’s perceived as an immediate win, then do it.

plus, respectfully, the office background environment stuff wasn’t put in all that long ago. I remember them celebrating it as a feature. But it’s just unimaginably poorly executed. Again, please correct me if you feel differently.

How do you even get it that badly wrong? I could hire somebody freelance and pay them for half a day and get somewhere 1000 times better than that.

Sorry to be so blunt - it is exasperating at this point. 

[Tonton_Zola]

In under 3 seconds this is what Dall E came up with based on “football manager’s office in Northern Europe - with training ground in the distance.” 

[Tonton_Zola]

2 minutes ago, Tonton_Zola said:

In under 3 seconds this is what Dall E came up with based on “football manager’s office in Northern Europe - with training ground in the distance.” 

And for Latin America 

I am only doing this to highlight that this is hardly a strategic drain on resources. Literally 30 mins (I could even do the above in the graphical style of FM) and tag into database metadata. Some of us feel instantly 5% better

[Piperita]

Dall-E has gotten good! I still remember it trying to replicate the Mona Lisa or bringing my favourite ships to life. It was abstract art at most. But this is exactly what it aims to be.

[Tonton_Zola]

14 minutes ago, Piperita said:

Dall-E has gotten good! I still remember it trying to replicate the Mona Lisa or bringing my favourite ships to life. It was abstract art at most. But this is exactly what it aims to be.

 Clearly I am just using it to push the point to its extremes (a Dall-e + human for 10 minutes is exponentially better, as is anybody with graphics or illustration chops), but the idea that this can’t be sorted quickly and efficiently with big perceived quality of life improvements is absurd.

I am no graphics expert, but presumably similar tools exist to help a resource-short team make improvements rapidly? Or just take the 15 minutes of your day to upres a stone wall at one of the rendered stadia?

Edited October 20, 2022 by Tonton_Zola

[BuzzR]

2 hours ago, Tonton_Zola said:

Usual arguments about “wider implications for AI” do not apply.

the picnic tables, the poorly rendered random stadium furniture, the lack of graphical or immersive scaling/variation in background screens - you could put two of us in the code for about a day and we could sort this out!

Am I wrong? Tell me if I am 

 

 

2 hours ago, Tonton_Zola said:

plus, respectfully, the office background environment stuff wasn’t put in all that long ago. I remember them celebrating it as a feature. But it’s just unimaginably poorly executed. Again, please correct me if you feel differently.

Thank you!

We keep hearing these excuses for some time now.. when it just doesn't hold water.

If it's "legacy code" involved to get some decent scale on that houses, trees and a static image on panel - and if no one wants to touch it then God helps us all.

But it's not. These are just excuses offered around here by people associated with SI and had become some kind of ground truth.

Another excuse is that " low-end PC users" hold back the graphics development.

I don't think I've seen an official response about the awful trees and upscaled buildings that are beyond hilarious after 5 years. 

So forbidden legacy code and not disturbing the peacefull AI are kind of superfluous excuses.

Edited October 20, 2022 by BuzzR
Spelling

[mikelfc8]

3 hours ago, Tonton_Zola said:

Yeah I think it’s the sheer mystery of some of this stuff that has begun to grate.

Making that office screen better, or creating 12 different variants of it, should literally take a day max? I mean, if it’s not integrated into a wider three dimensional environment experience, why not just take 12 royalty free photographs (or illustrator graphical renders) of different offices from different  locations…perhaps scaled against size and location?

If you want a graphical style, no problem, I could do this in 10 minutes using DALL E if I wanted?

I am pushing the point, but WHY (along with so many other graphical irritations) does this stuff not get changed? It begins to border on an elaborate practical joke. 
 

 

 

 

The bolded part. I couldn't have said it any better.

[azymin]

5 hours ago, b.sinisa said:

will there going to be a beta today?

I think it's usually 2 weeks prior to release. I'm assuming coming Monday is beta date, unless you heard something else?

[rp1966]

12 minutes ago, azymin said:

I think it's usually 2 weeks prior to release. I'm assuming coming Monday is beta date, unless you heard something else?

I think a lot of people are assuming today as Thursday is a popular release day. I guess we'll see.  Be nice to have it before the weekend.

[Volband]

FM 22 was released on nov 8 and the beta dropped on oct 20 (Wednesday). FM 23 will also going to be released on nov 8, and according to the epic store, the beta is going to be released today, oct 20. So... let's just say while I wouldn't bet my life on it, it's quite reasonable to expect it to drop today.

Edited October 20, 2022 by Volband

[wearesporting]

Lads the vast vast majority of people don't care about the 'my data!' stuff.

[phnompenhandy]

1 hour ago, rp1966 said:

I think a lot of people are assuming today as Thursday is a popular release day. I guess we'll see.  Be nice to have it before the weekend.

SI just tweeted an hour glass with #beta. Looks like it's hours away.

[Aim_Less]

Cant wait to see the " its so much better comments " or its so much different ....

[Malicious Penguin]

I'm really happy to see that this thread is full of actual concern/criticism, and not happy clapping.

[b.sinisa]

My question is it fixed the selling players because in 22 was very hard to sell players you don't need 

[phnompenhandy]

7 minutes ago, b.sinisa said:

My question is it fixed the selling players because in 22 was very hard to sell players you don't need 

PSG and Man United would agree.

[b.sinisa]

3 minutes ago, phnompenhandy said:

PSG and Man United would agree.

well the fm22 had like bug when the IA made just small money for your players is i remember 

[busngabb]

10 hours ago, Just4Downloads said:

I guess it is very difficult to get right considering 99% of teams in real life will pay through instalments rather than all upfront. Need some sort of limiter though. 

I think in real life it's probably one of the major stalling factors on major transfers and why a lot of deals break down. I'm not suggesting they make the game tortuous, but there should be a bit more fight depending on the selling clubs situation. I.e if they want to sell, if they have a lot of cash or need it etc. Your own club should be far less willing to accept signing players on credit too. In the game you can abuse it so much than the bank balance absolutely plummets and you end up being bought out by new owners to clear it.