The Jack Grealish (and occasionally England) Thread: It's coming home attempt 5782570

[skybluedave]

The thread has gone full circle hasn't it.

Just need someone to moan about TAA not going and the circle is complete

[Bigwig]

Going into the tournament I thought Grealish was our best outfield player but overall I think he’ll be disappointed with how little impact he had despite the limited game time. I also thought Foden was going to light up the tournament but again didn’t quite grasp his chance (could have all been different if his shot that hit the post had went in).

The likes of Shaw, Sterling and Phillips all grasped their chance and nailed down their spot.

[EnterUsernameHere]

1 minute ago, themadsheep2001 said:

When people made the argument for Saka starting based on his impact, didn't see the same enthusiasm from him, personally. 

Ajw definitely showed enough. CJ maybe as well.

[themadsheep2001]

4 minutes ago, EnterUsernameHere said:

Ajw definitely showed enough. CJ maybe as well.

I was talking about Baptista, in reference to jagsters point about bias. He tried to downplay people wanting to start him based on subs appearances despite making a case for Grealish doing the same

I'd like to have seen more Grealish and Foden personally, just think we don't need the excuses

[EnterUsernameHere]

Just now, themadsheep2001 said:

I was talking about Baptista, in reference to jagsters point about bias. 

I'd like to have seen more Grealish and Foden personally, just think we don't need the excuses

Ah, got you now. Misunderstood.

[Baptista_8]

11 minutes ago, themadsheep2001 said:

Just like every other sub then. Come on man, don't need to make excuses

I made the same excuse for Saka when he came on the other night, so yes just like every other sub. And you're saying this as if Grealish was bad when he came on

[themadsheep2001]

Just now, Baptista_8 said:

I made the same excuse for Saka when he came on the other night, so yes just like every other sub. And you're saying this as if Grealish was bad when he came on

I literally said nothing about Grealish being good or bad FFS

[Baptista_8]

7 minutes ago, EnterUsernameHere said:

Ajw definitely showed enough. CJ maybe as well.

He won't say a bad word about the other users who show consistent bias. Just calls me out on it

[kopsy101]

Nobody hypes up Grealish more than Saturdays commentator

"A special player built for special moments"

What does that even mean? I thought Messi had come on

[Baptista_8]

1 minute ago, themadsheep2001 said:

I literally said nothing about Grealish being good or bad FFS

So what are we making excuses for then?

[themadsheep2001]

On a positive, thought Stones and Shaw were excellent throughout. And Sterling absolutely underlines his importance, even he's frustrating, he's still so dangerous

[The_jagster]

10 minutes ago, themadsheep2001 said:

When people made the argument for Saka starting based on his impact, didn't see the same enthusiasm from him, personally. 

No I know but that isn't my point really.

I don't want to speak for Baptista but I think he interprets biased = insincere. Like I don't deny Grealish is good but I don't know how he can seriously argue that his club allegiance has no impact on why he defends Grealish.

[themadsheep2001]

10 minutes ago, Bigwig said:

Going into the tournament I thought Grealish was our best outfield player but overall I think he’ll be disappointed with how little impact he had despite the limited game time. I also thought Foden was going to light up the tournament but again didn’t quite grasp his chance (could have all been different if his shot that hit the post had went in).

The likes of Shaw, Sterling and Phillips all grasped their chance and nailed down their spot.

I think Sterling was always going to have that backing but agree with you on the other two, nailed on starters, which you wouldn't have said last year. 

[Coulthard's Jaw]

Yeah I've been worried about our centre backs but actually what we have is quite good really. They need protection obviously but then most centre backs do these days. 

Centre midfield is where we need to take a step forward. Bellingham looking like he might be a generational talent is huge. And I'm convinced Smith Rowe is going break into the squad in the next few months.

[Coulthard's Jaw]

Only thing I would say in defence of Baptista is he was obsessed with Wilshere being world class for ages  even after all the Arsenal fans had given up on him.

[Baptista_8]

Just now, The_jagster said:

No I know but that isn't my point really.

I don't want to speak for Baptista but I think he interprets biased = insincere. Like I don't deny Grealish is good but I don't know how he can seriously argue that his club allegiance has no impact on why he defends Grealish.

I don't think it does. When we've had good performing English players I've never been crying out for them to be in the squad or starting or anything. I just think Grealish is special. The only way I would be biased towards him is that style of playmaker is my fav type of player.

[themadsheep2001]

Just now, Coulthard's Jaw said:

Yeah I've been worried about our centre backs but actually what we have is quite good really. They need protection obviously but then most centre backs do these days. 

Centre midfield is where we need to take a step forward. Bellingham looking like he might be a generational talent is huge. And I'm convinced Smith Rowe is going break into the squad in the next few months.

Think it was @EnterUsernameHere who was talking about two way players. Bellingham fits that for me. Would love to see Bellingham/Phillips as a duo tested out

[Baptista_8]

Just now, Coulthard's Jaw said:

Only thing I would say in defence of Baptista is he was obsessed with Wilshere being world class for ages  even after all the Arsenal fans had given up on him.

Told you, bias towards that type of technically gifted player

[EnterUsernameHere]

1 minute ago, themadsheep2001 said:

Think it was @EnterUsernameHere who was talking about two way players. Bellingham fits that for me. Would love to see Bellingham/Phillips as a duo tested out

I was but I don’t think I was the only one, can’t remember who the other(s) were though.

[The_jagster]

My worry for next tournament is that Kane regresses a bit or gets injured, the back up options as a striker aren't great atm.

[Lucas]

Grealish felt a bit overhyped to me, but it was great to see him coming on had impact at times. 

I know Barry said this before but Sterling would be one of the world's best if he could finish and picked the right moments to pass. 

It was pointed out to me not a single goal conceded in open play and only from set pieces, which is still amazing to me. 

Only player that disappointed me was Mount. Apart from one chance / miss and the set piece crosses he took he seemed to be irrelevant in more games than any other player for me. 

Felt Kane grew as the tournament went on but still wasn't at his best. Don't see him every week but he reminds me of a poor man's Alan Shearer playing for England at least.

[Barry Cartman]

Just now, The_jagster said:

My worry for next tournament is that Kane regresses a bit or gets injured, the back up options as a striker aren't great atm.

Everyone will be playing a False 9 by then anyway

[themadsheep2001]

Just now, Lucas said:

Grealish felt a bit overhyped to me, but it was great to see him coming on had impact at times. 

I know Barry said this before but Sterling would be one of the world's best if he could finish and picked the right moments to pass. 

It was pointed out to me not a single goal conceded in open play and only from set pieces, which is still amazing to me. 

Only player that disappointed me was Mount. Apart from one chance / miss and the set piece crosses he took he seemed to be irrelevant in more games than any other player for me. 

Felt Kane grew as the tournament went on but still wasn't at his best. Don't see him every week but he reminds me of a poor man's Alan Shearer playing for England at least.

Was disappointed with Mount offensively, but he was also being used in a forward destroyer role, which feels like such a waste of him, though it was largely effective

[Barry Cartman]

Yeah Mount was better defensively than he was offensively, which was really part of the problem 

[samuelawachie]

4 minutes ago, Lucas said:

Grealish felt a bit overhyped to me, but it was great to see him coming on had impact at times. 

I know Barry said this before but Sterling would be one of the world's best if he could finish and picked the right moments to pass. 

It was pointed out to me not a single goal conceded in open play and only from set pieces, which is still amazing to me. 

Only player that disappointed me was Mount. Apart from one chance / miss and the set piece crosses he took he seemed to be irrelevant in more games than any other player for me. 

Felt Kane grew as the tournament went on but still wasn't at his best. Don't see him every week but he reminds me of a poor man's Alan Shearer playing for England at least.

After a goalmouth scramble that saw a Marco Verratti header pushed against the post by Jordan Pickford, the Juventus man turned the ball in to the delight of the Italian support. It was the first goal from open play that England have conceded in the entire tournament.

--Source: Somewhere on the Internet.

[enigmatic]

Think Mount was a lot more effective than he was given credit for, but had a poor game in the final. But I don't think even Baptista would bring on Grealish to defend a lead

[SouthCoastRed]

1 minute ago, enigmatic said:

Think Mount was a lot more effective than he was given credit for, but had a poor game in the final. But I don't think even Baptista would bring on Grealish to defend a lead

Baptista would bring Grealish on to replace the Pope for Midnight Mass tbh

[Bigwig]

10 minutes ago, The_jagster said:

My worry for next tournament is that Kane regresses a bit or gets injured, the back up options as a striker aren't great atm.

Ivan Toney’s going to light up the league this year. Sorted. 

[Rob1981]

17 minutes ago, enigmatic said:

Mount was a lot more effective than he was given credit for, but had a poor game in the final. But I don't think even Baptista would bring on Grealish to defend a lead

I mean this is the thing, fine margins etc.  You can moan about Southgate's negativity and late subs but it's been clear all tournament that he doesn't trust Grealish defensively.  So you switch Mount for Grealish on 70 minutes to give you a better option going forward... but if we then lose 3-1 in normal time it looks like the wrong call.  Same with the penalties.  Bringing Sancho and Rashford on for a spot kick when they haven't been involved in the game looks like an idiot's move once they've missed.  But if players like Stones and Phillips had missed people are screaming that he's left attacking players on the bench for a shootout when we can make six subs.

Still would have liked to have seen Henderson in from the start, having that experience in midfield on 30-35 minutes when the possession started to get away from us... might have made a difference.  Phillips and Rice both leave with their reputations massively enhanced but we have basically bettered our typical tournament performances with the least experienced midfield we've had in years.  If one of these gets a move to a Champions League club and Bellingham kicks on we really should be going to Qatar looking even stronger.

Edited July 13, 2021 by Rob1981

[arenaross]

11 minutes ago, enigmatic said:

Think Mount was a lot more effective than he was given credit for, but had a poor game in the final. But I don't think even Baptista would bring on Grealish to defend a lead

Ahh, I really don't want to open up a can of worms, so all I'll say here is from the Villa perspective....when we're leading Grealish is an unbelievable player to have on the pitch. His ability to both win free-kicks disrupting the flow of the oppositions attacks and his ball carrying ability to get the team back up the pitch are just a brilliant asset to have when you're defending a lead.

Now obviously Premier League football at Villa's level vs international tournaments are very different etc with different skillsets required and you will lose a bit of the press that someone like Mount offers, but I must admit, I did raise an eyebrow a few times during the tournament when he was either subbed off or not bought on early enough when it was obvious we needed something to take the sting out of the opposition. 

Ok goodbye. 

[Coulthard's Jaw]

The only player in the final who tried to carry the ball forward was Rice (Saka as well when he came on), and with the best will in the world Rice doesn't quite have the ability to do anything at the end of the run/surge. I think Grealish would have been a great option who should have been used more.

Edited July 13, 2021 by Coulthard's Jaw

[themadsheep2001]

20 minutes ago, Coulthard's Jaw said:

The only player in the final who tried to carry the ball forward was Rice (Saka as well when he came on), and with the best will in the world Rice doesn't quite have the ability to do anything at the end of the run/surge. I think Grealish would have been a great option who should have been used more.

Rice and Maguire were forced to carry the ball more because there no high runs for outballs, it's why I would have taken off Mount second half for Rashford or Sancho. The ball just kept coming back, because we couldn't pin Italy back

[darren1983]

34 minutes ago, Bigwig said:

Ivan Toney’s going to light up the league this year. Sorted. 

All this talk of club bias and you steal my line before I can join in  

[Bigwig]

1 minute ago, darren1983 said:

All this talk of club bias and you steal my line before I can join in  

Don’t worry about it, he won’t be at your club when he gets called up. 

[darren1983]

Just now, Bigwig said:

Don’t worry about it, he won’t be at your club when he gets called up. 

He won't won't be off for a while, we're not silly like Newcastle  

[PaulHartman71]

 

[skybluedave]

2 minutes ago, PaulHartman71 said:

 

[arenaross]

haha ffs

free taco though i guess.

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, arenaross said:

haha ffs

free taco though i guess.

 

[brett.spurs]

1 hour ago, Coulthard's Jaw said:

Yeah I've been worried about our centre backs but actually what we have is quite good really. They need protection obviously but then most centre backs do these days. 

Centre midfield is where we need to take a step forward. Bellingham looking like he might be a generational talent is huge. And I'm convinced Smith Rowe is going break into the squad in the next few months.

I like Smith Rowe but I don't think he fixes the problem we have in midfield.

We lack someone who will always make themselves available and get us playing. The closest we've had in recent years was Winks but his form fell off a cliff, before him there was Wilshere but injuries killed him. We can still win without that type of player but we won't do it without ceding possession whenever we come up against the top sides.

[Coulthard's Jaw]

26 minutes ago, brett.spurs said:

I like Smith Rowe but I don't think he fixes the problem we have in midfield.

We lack someone who will always make themselves available and get us playing. 

That is literally what Smith Rowe is brilliant at. Very clever as well.

[brett.spurs]

4 minutes ago, Coulthard's Jaw said:

That is literally what Smith Rowe is brilliant at. Very clever as well.

He'd be competing with Mount and Foden, he's never going to play CM for Southgate(or perhaps any manager). The closest he'd get is as some kind of dual #8 but I'm talking more about someone who is going to sit deep, take the ball under pressure and keep it moving. Until we find a player or two like that we'll continue to largely bypass the midfield and work it out wide instead.

[Barry Cartman]

36 minutes ago, brett.spurs said:

We lack someone who will always make themselves available and get us playing. The closest we've had in recent years was Winks but his form fell off a cliff, before him there was Wilshere but injuries killed him. We can still win without that type of player but we won't do it without ceding possession whenever we come up against the top sides.

Foden is that player, we just don't play a system that uses that type of player

[themadsheep2001]

Just now, Barry Cartman said:

Foden is that player, we just don't play a system that uses that type of player

We've got the players to play multiple systems. It's just a case of what Southgate wants to do, really. 

[Vynal Seven]

7 minutes ago, brett.spurs said:

He'd be competing with Mount and Foden, he's never going to play CM for Southgate(or perhaps any manager). The closest he'd get is as some kind of dual #8 but I'm talking more about someone who is going to sit deep, take the ball under pressure and keep it moving. Until we find a player or two like that we'll continue to largely bypass the midfield and work it out wide instead.

 I think a…

              Rice

Bellingham Foden

…three could work.

[skybluedave]

I need to see more of Bellingham. I can see he's good but not 100% sure what type of midfielder he is. When I saw him against Man City in CL he was everywhere. Box to box, all over the pitch in a 3. How tidy is his passing though?

[craigcwwe]

8 minutes ago, skybluedave said:

I need to see more of Bellingham. I can see he's good but not 100% sure what type of midfielder he is. When I saw him against Man City in CL he was everywhere. Box to box, all over the pitch in a 3. How tidy is his passing though?

He's a specimen. B2B imo. 

[Vynal Seven]

9 minutes ago, skybluedave said:

I need to see more of Bellingham. I can see he's good but not 100% sure what type of midfielder he is. When I saw him against Man City in CL he was everywhere. Box to box, all over the pitch in a 3. How tidy is his passing though?

Yeah that’s why I think that 3 would compliment each other well (in the right system of course). Rice sits, Bellingham box-to-box and Foden picking up the ball dictating play and creating from the midfield. 

[Barry Cartman]

Yeah Bellingham & Foden + 1 defensive player is the future of England 

[themadsheep2001]

27 minutes ago, skybluedave said:

I need to see more of Bellingham. I can see he's good but not 100% sure what type of midfielder he is. When I saw him against Man City in CL he was everywhere. Box to box, all over the pitch in a 3. How tidy is his passing though?

Has everything to be a world class box to box player if he continues to develop. Clever passer too.