Should i carry on with my save - Youth Intake Problems

[Junkhead]

20 minutes ago, kingking said:

People are allowed to voice their opinion.

No matter how much you love this game, people are allowed to give feedback. 

If S.I don't want people to give feedback or report bugs then remove this forum and cut out contact with the consumers.

idk why you are getting upset with people reporting game breaking bugs.. I have even had to quit playing FM because of this issue and resort to FIFA on my spare time away from work.

I'm not getting upset. I don't want the bug either. I want it gone.

But I also appreciate that once the developer knows the bug is there, they will fix it as soon as possible. A thread about the situation itself and if the game can be played in its current state has turned into people demanding refunds.

Express opinion by all means, demanding refunds and compensation is a bit silly - in my opinion. If yours differs, then fair enough.

[forameuss]

The irony of the person accepting there's an issue and that SI are trying to solve being accused of being the "upset" one by the hysterical...

 

[upthetoon]

58 minutes ago, bringbacklilnux said:

My later responses are to the posts (not posters) using explanation and excuses as justification.  I expect a higher standard.  Yes SI release on 24 Nov for revenue etc.  But stick it out there and deal with the issues later is not my preferred customer relationship - even with apologies and 'we are working hard' statements.  (I might add, 'to clear up the mess we made'.  So no points there; and so you should.).

 

this is the sad state of the gaming industry as a whole. to be frank, sport games like FM & Fifa have no reason to be yearly releases. it's simply for revenue. most of whatever is introduced can be done as a patch but nope. it will held back for next year.
and many games out there are released with bugs way worse than the ones in FM now.
even cyberpunk had like a 40 or 60GB day 1 patch or something.

just hope this gets fixed soon anyway.

[Mayzie]

32 minutes ago, Junkhead said:

Somebody earlier asked for free DLC. An "editor pack" whatever that is.  

I would honestly just ignore them.  I don't even know what that is.  Literally everything but the editor comes as standard with the game & the community even expands upon that by creating more substantial databases, skins, etc.

27 minutes ago, Junkhead said:

I'm not getting upset. I don't want the bug either. I want it gone.

But I also appreciate that once the developer knows the bug is there, they will fix it as soon as possible. A thread about the situation itself and if the game can be played in its current state has turned into people demanding refunds.

Express opinion by all means, demanding refunds and compensation is a bit silly - in my opinion. If yours differs, then fair enough.

I know you're just defending SI, but they have employees for that and there are moderators on the forums to manage things such as threads getting derailed.  Besides, this thread hasn't made anyone ask for a refund, the bug itself has.  It's highlighted the issue, but then again so have the multiple bug reports.

 

All this thread has meant for me is that I've not gone on to spend 100+ hours of my time on a save that I eventually realise is completely ruined.  There is someone in the youth only challenge whose database has shrunk to 9k players.  I appreciate SI are working on the problem, but I personally wouldn't want to get down to that few because we don't know how a fix will resolve that and what the other ramifications of it will be.  Does the player database grow back to the original, say 16k players it started with?  Over how many years?  Does this then mean that for the next couple of years, the database is saturated with 15-17yo's in order to it to grow back to the original player count?  What happens then when they all retire at roughly the same time, because they're all roughly the same age?  Back to 9k players again and the same cycle is repeated?

 

E:  Some of that could be why it's proving so difficult, certainly as a hotfix to get it sorted properly.

Edited December 10, 2020 by Mayzie

[Samelders]

1 hour ago, pbutcher87 said:

ive done a new save with about 60 leagues and most of the nations with large database is this enough to limit the issues further down the line ?

Depends on the durance, number of players ingame keeps diminishing... I simulated until 2035 and the youth teams, even in the loaded leagues, are pretty empty (like 6-10 youth players left). So i would'nt really recomment going for a long game currently!

Edited December 10, 2020 by Samelders

[Junkhead]

@Mayzie I agree with most of what you are said and understand why you are gutted at having sunk so many hours into a save pointlessly. I certainly would be too.

39 minutes ago, Mayzie said:

I know you're just defending SI, but they have employees for that and there are moderators on the forums to manage things such as threads getting derailed. 

However, despite agreeing with you and sympathising, I'm going to defend SI where I see fit, as much as others will complain. The fact I am not a moderator or SI employee doesn't mean I shouldn't do that.

Your questions about how the fix will affect saved games is completely fair. Let's hope it's fixed soon so we can find out 👍

[Guest]

52 minutes ago, upthetoon said:

this is the sad state of the gaming industry as a whole. to be frank, sport games like FM & Fifa have no reason to be yearly releases. it's simply for revenue. most of whatever is introduced can be done as a patch but nope. it will held back for next year.
and many games out there are released with bugs way worse than the ones in FM now.
even cyberpunk had like a 40 or 60GB day 1 patch or something.

just hope this gets fixed soon anyway.

Kinda of interesting how the relationship with the customer seems to have changed, from trying to persuade them to buy a product, to customers foaming impatiently at the mouth (including me) for the latest release/aka patch and seemingly prepared to accept 'any old tat' just as long as it is _something_ - then siding with the company for their herioc efforts to mend the mess they carelessly produced in the first place.  (oh it is so hard.  there are always bugs.  they know about the issue.  have apologised.  are working hard. fix comming soon.). 

As you say is the state of the whole industry - at least from my customer connection with it.  And will continue to be so while the appolgist (and paid opinion formers) contine to defend it as 'acceptable'.

Overstated for fun.... of course.

Gosh I must be getting old: sound like my .......

[Junkhead]

50 minutes ago, bringbacklilnux said:

Kinda of interesting how the relationship with the customer seems to have changed, from trying to persuade them to buy a product, to customers foaming impatiently at the mouth (including me) for the latest release/aka patch and seemingly prepared to accept 'any old tat' just as long as it is _something_ - then siding with the company for their herioc efforts to mend the mess they carelessly produced in the first place.  (oh it is so hard.  there are always bugs.  they know about the issue.  have apologised.  are working hard. fix comming soon.). 

As you say is the state of the whole industry - at least from my customer connection with it.  And will continue to be so while the appolgist (and paid opinion formers) contine to defend it as 'acceptable'.

Overstated for fun.... of course.

Gosh I must be getting old: sound like my .......

Despite our differing opinions, I quite like "Paid opinion formers". Cheered me up 

[MyNameIsJohn]

Starting to feel like we'll be waiting until next week now when the traditional end of year patch arrives.

[ATV]

Someone on a youtube video said the update would be on boxing day - which I thought strange 

[HUNT3R]

3 minutes ago, ATV said:

Someone on a youtube video said the update would be on boxing day - which I thought strange 

Someone on youtube would not know a date. That's for SI to know and to officially release when they're ready. Even if anyone outside of SI knew, they'd be bound by NDA, so can't release any info. It's just a random guess.

[ATV]

I did say I thought it was strange...

[Platinum]

Around what date is the December patch normally released?

[vukigepard]

Are we seriously waiting this long for a fix for something that has worked so well over 10's of previous fm editions?  

[KlaaZ]

1 minute ago, vukigepard said:

Are we seriously waiting this long for a fix for something that has worked so well over 10's of previous fm editions?  

Newsflash, there is something completely different in this edition (the corona situation) which throws things off balance. 

The reactions of some people here are really just unbelievable. 

[HUNT3R]

3 minutes ago, vukigepard said:

Are we seriously waiting this long for a fix for something that has worked so well over 10's of previous fm editions?  

Obviously, it depends on the exact cause of the issue. It depends how long it takes to find the cause, apply a fix, then to test it, possibly apply more modifications, test again etc.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Junkhead said:

Despite our differing opinions, I quite like "Paid opinion formers". Cheered me up 

Just look at the range of companies for hire who offer this service - and obviously not focused on games.

Or did you think I was referring to you!?

In terms of games, there is of course the special treatment of youtubers (for example) who get invited to special events - provided they are not overly critical of the game.

And I am sure you have seen how some tech youtubers get struck-off the list of pre-release review samples etc, or are even offered incentives to remove negative reviews.

Nothing new of course.

Whether SI engage in such tactics, I have no idea.  Perhaps you do ;)

[ImDaWeasel]

11 minutes ago, KlaaZ said:

Newsflash, there is something completely different in this edition (the corona situation) which throws things off balance. 

The reactions of some people here are really just unbelievable. 

Covid should've been ignored completely. Now we've got this half baked version that's done more damage than good. Did any consumer really want what they went with?

[RinusFM]

Oof. I had 213 000 people before 1 july 2023. Now I've 203 000. 

20 leagues loaded all playable. All continents loaded, except the 2 options that will kill the computer. 

(The game speed it going great!) Time to see how far I go into the CL and then put it on hold again. 

 

Edit: I guess it's because I have too many people and too less (playable) leagues loaded, and because of Covid and the bug. 

 

Edited December 10, 2020 by RinusFM

[vukigepard]

5 minutes ago, KlaaZ said:

Newsflash, there is something completely different in this edition (the corona situation) which throws things off balance. 

The reactions of some people here are really just unbelievable. 

What's unbelievable is you pretending to know more about this problem than everyone else here even when you have no idea.

Corona situation affecting it is speculation. What i've meant with my question is what exactly is the problem and why is it taking so long to come back to something that has clearly worked before. It's a normal human reaction coming from confusion, lack of information regarding the subject and wanting to know about something that is damaging to your paid experience. Si can provide this information, they don't. That's all.

[Junkhead]

2 hours ago, bringbacklilnux said:

Just look at the range of companies for hire who offer this service - and obviously not focused on games.

Or did you think I was referring to you!?

In terms of games, there is of course the special treatment of youtubers (for example) who get invited to special events - provided they are not overly critical of the game.

And I am sure you have seen how some tech youtubers get struck-off the list of pre-release review samples etc, or are even offered incentives to remove negative reviews.

Nothing new of course.

Whether SI engage in such tactics, I have no idea.  Perhaps you do

Nope, just quite liked the turn of phrase.  Weirdly mate, some people just think differently to you. It doesn't mean they're paid to do so.

Not seen "tech YouTubers" do anything. Too old for that.

[Junkhead]

3 hours ago, vukigepard said:

Corona situation affecting it is speculation.

It isn't speculation. SI have said that they believe that the amount of free agents retiring at the end of the first season due to covid is part of the issue.

 

3 hours ago, vukigepard said:

Si can provide this information, they don't.

You surely understand that the information they give out re. The inner workings of their game is highly business sensitive and why they are not going into detail on forums?

Feel like I have to put on each post now, as a disclaimer, that I also want them to resolve the issue as quickly as possible 

[Double0Seven]

Apparently this is also an issue with newgens. At least they are trying to fix it. Let's hope this winter patch will be huge and fix all of this. So many small problems holding this FM version back from being amazing. 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Junkhead said:

Nope, just quite liked the turn of phrase.  Weirdly mate, some people just think differently to you. It doesn't mean they're paid to do so.

Not seen "tech YouTubers" do anything. Too old for that.

For the record: I do not think there is anything 'weird' about that at all, or if they do that they are paid to do so.

[vukigepard]

Just now, Junkhead said:

It isn't speculation. SI have said that they believe that the amount of free agents retiring at the end of the first season due to covid is part of the issue.

 

You surely understand that the information they give out re. The inner workings of their game is highly business sensitive and why they are not going into detail on forums?

Feel like I have to put on each post now, as a disclaimer, that I also want them to resolve the issue as quickly as possible 

They believe, i believe so too. They believed they fixed it last time with the patch, but they didn't. 

I understand that they can't release sensitive information. But some accurate information would be nice.

Btw, i really respect your opinion and I know everyone does want this to get fixed, i just THINK that the problem could be communicated better, the eager community could have been used better for testing, or reporting what they need to know, so this vital function of the game that worked before and didn't change much could be fixed faster.

[Junkhead]

1 minute ago, bringbacklilnux said:

For the record: I do not think there is anything 'weird' about that at all, or if they do that they are paid to do so.

Good news.

Anyway, shall we get back to talking about the youth generation bug?

 

[Junkhead]

5 minutes ago, vukigepard said:

i just THINK that the problem could be communicated better, the eager community could have been used better for testing, or reporting what they need to know,

I think it's a tough one. On one hand they release a playable beta version for that very purpose and people refuse to post in the bugs forum even in beta (see closed difficulty related threads). On the flip side, we are 12 working days since the full release, are on the third hotfix (so one every 4 working days on average) and people are posting refund requests and things like "Fiiiix" on the forums.

The ability to help identify and provide info on the issues is there, and I think the community generally does it's bit. It's just that people want things fixing yesterday. 

Personally think the negativity across the forums is disappointing and often OTT.  I'm glad people aren't on internet forums slaughtering my work efforts. It must be tough. It's hard enough when my gaffer does it. 

 

[Grifty]

I don't understand the "I'm not going to play because I don't want to start a save and waste time" opinion. I prefer the game once regens appear and real players retire so not having them later in the game is a problem for me, however, I'd prefer to play the game than not.

Even if the fix is not save compatible and comes out in January, would I prefer to keep playing the game and start a new save in January, or not play the game and start a new save in January.

It comes across some people not playing out of spite.

[ratio1618]

15 minutes ago, Grifty said:

I don't understand the "I'm not going to play because I don't want to start a save and waste time" opinion. I prefer the game once regens appear and real players retire so not having them later in the game is a problem for me, however, I'd prefer to play the game than not.

Even if the fix is not save compatible and comes out in January, would I prefer to keep playing the game and start a new save in January, or not play the game and start a new save in January.

It comes across some people not playing out of spite.

Im not playing because i know my long term save is going to be broken and not realistic also not being anything like the saves in the previous 10 FMs i played. Its a pretty vital aport of the game that is broken.

You can think its out of spite but really its becuase people want the features in a game they payed for to work in order to have a save they like playing.

[Guest]

9 hours ago, Junkhead said:

Good news.

Anyway, shall we get back to talking about the youth generation bug?

 

Well you hijacked my (amusing) response to another poster and decided to get personal, so I guess that it up to you.

Have to say, I admire your dedication, vigilance and stamina.

[HUNT3R]

Can we draw a line under this please @bringbacklilnuxand @Junkhead? It's off topic.

[Junkhead]

@HUNT3R - Agreed

@bringbacklilnux - Apologies if you thought I got personal.  

[Mayzie]

10 hours ago, Grifty said:

I don't understand the "I'm not going to play because I don't want to start a save and waste time" opinion. I prefer the game once regens appear and real players retire so not having them later in the game is a problem for me, however, I'd prefer to play the game than not.

Even if the fix is not save compatible and comes out in January, would I prefer to keep playing the game and start a new save in January, or not play the game and start a new save in January.

It comes across some people not playing out of spite.

Some people would rather not start a save, spend hundreds of hours on that save, get x amount of years into the future and achieve whatever they achieve during that time to then have to repeat the entire process again from scratch.  It has nothing to do with spite whatsoever.  I could be sat here saying I wasn't playing because of the bug while in reality I'm fifty seasons into a save and no-one would even know.

[Grifty]

10 hours ago, ratio1618 said:

Im not playing because i know my long term save is going to be broken and not realistic also not being anything like the saves in the previous 10 FMs i played. Its a pretty vital aport of the game that is broken.

You can think its out of spite but really its becuase people want the features in a game they payed for to work in order to have a save they like playing.

I get that and 100% agree, however the game is not broken. You can play the game, maybe not the exact way you want, but you can still play it. Broken would indicate you couldn't get into the game itself, or if you try to start a match it crashes and you have to reload. That is broken. Regens population in 10/15 years being low while a massive bug is not a broken game.

[blejdek]

48 minutes ago, Grifty said:

I get that and 100% agree, however the game is not broken. You can play the game, maybe not the exact way you want, but you can still play it. Broken would indicate you couldn't get into the game itself, or if you try to start a match it crashes and you have to reload. That is broken. Regens population in 10/15 years being low while a massive bug is not a broken game.

As someone on top mentioned, I most of the times play only 1 long save, because I dont play many hours on one day but still got many years on, mainly because I like to watch my youngsters evolve and brake some records if they are really good. Broken/game breaking bug/something 3d... are basically the same words for the same problem. For me personally who get 30+ years on a save, a game IS BROKEN/has GAME BREAKING BUG... So i play few months to get higher years and what would happen ingame after a large amount of time? I tell you what would happen, most of the teams would only have greyed out players, noone to buy, noone to play against to keep things interesting No new young players, only some old players would stay, where is fun in that + how is that not that game is BROKEN ??????!

[JordanMilly]

Slightly irritated that I have to do this following a number of posts telling people to keep things on topic and not make things personal or take potshots at each other, but I've just had to hide yet another post taking potshots at people who disagree with them.

Insulting other people, calling them fanboys, going "OMG I can't believe people are defending this", etc, is just unconstructive and against forum rules. If people do it again, they'll just start receiving warnings and won't be allowed to post in this thread anymore, it's as simple as that.

We get that some of you don't agree on whether this is a "GAME BREAKING BUG", "how is that not that game is BROKEN??????!", etc, or not. At this point, agree to disagree, you're not going to change each others minds. 

Just... all of you, cut it out.

[afailed10]

I usually buy the game around January but with the pandemic i would have bought the game by now if this issue had been resolved. 

[Platinum]

An update on the bug. Good news is that they think the fix will make it more balanced then ever, the potentially bad news is that no mention of it being available in the December update which likely means they still arent certain. My decision is to wait until the December update and if its still not fixed ill think about what I want to do.

The incorrect stats bug is another one that IMO affects all saves, particularly if youre going for a realism save as you will rely on team stats much more, but Id expect a fix for that to be in the December update (Im just guessing though)

[blejdek]

4 minutes ago, francis#17 said:

An update on the bug. Good news is that they think the fix will make it more balanced then ever, the potentially bad news is that no mention of it being available in the December update which likely means they still arent certain. My decision is to wait until the December update and if its still not fixed ill think about what I want to do.

The incorrect stats bug is another one that IMO affects all saves, particularly if youre going for a realism save as you will rely on team stats much more, but Id expect a fix for that to be in the December update (Im just guessing though)

Well this is a great news. If its true that its going to be better than ever, then this is even better than we are hoping, when we are waiting for fix. As it says it was fundamental repair, it means they are probably over making the whole intake program, from bottom up. Lets hope we get it in the next update, so I can live peacefully through my Christmas and New Year  What i'm also happy is that they finally give an update on how things stands and how they approached the problem. (Y)

[bielsadidnothingwrong]

19 hours ago, Junkhead said:

SI have said that they believe that the amount of free agents retiring at the end of the first season due to covid is part of the issue

change for the sake of change in the first year alone caused all this. how silly of them to think including it in this years release was a good idea. look at what it’s caused just to have a league start later or whatever. 

[Double0Seven]

1 hour ago, blejdek said:

Well this is a great news. If its true that its going to be better than ever, then this is even better than we are hoping, when we are waiting for fix. As it says it was fundamental repair, it means they are probably over making the whole intake program, from bottom up. Lets hope we get it in the next update, so I can live peacefully through my Christmas and New Year  What i'm also happy is that they finally give an update on how things stands and how they approached the problem. (Y)

I hope it does, but at the same time im a bit afraid. It went from fixing a bug to pushing out basically a new feature? In what? A few weeks? That sounds way too good to be true, but if it is ill take it. I guess we will see when it releases, im sure some users here will test it to death and compare. 

Edited December 11, 2020 by Double0Seven

[Daveincid]

vor 2 Minuten schrieb Double0Seven:

some users here will test it to death and compare.

[Platinum]

8 minutes ago, Double0Seven said:

I hope it does, but at the same time im a bit afraid. It went from fixing a bug to pushing out basically a new feature? In what? A few weeks? That sounds way too good to be true, but if it is ill take it. I guess we will see when it releases, im sure some users here will test it to death and compare. 

Very likely the only way for them to fix the bug was to fundamentally change how it works. Obviously such a big change in a short amount of time does mean they open themselves up to other bugs but lets wait and see first.

[grff]

I'm as frustrated as everybody in here as I play long term saves and might find my save won't have longevity if the numbers of regens rapdily falls. However, coming in here on a daily basis and complaining isn't going to fix the issue any quicker. SI are aware of the issue so let them get on with fixing it.

 

[Junkhead]

1 hour ago, bielsadidnothingwrong said:

change for the sake of change in the first year alone caused all this. how silly of them to think including it in this years release was a good idea. look at what it’s caused just to have a league start later or whatever. 

It wasn't a change SI made in respect of league start dates. It was players in the database without a club in increased numbers retiring. Obviously the increase in players without clubs irl would be reflected in the game.

Your point may stand in general, but you're talking about two different things.

[forameuss]

 

1 hour ago, Double0Seven said:

I hope it does, but at the same time im a bit afraid. It went from fixing a bug to pushing out basically a new feature? In what? A few weeks? That sounds way too good to be true, but if it is ill take it. I guess we will see when it releases, im sure some users here will test it to death and compare. 

It's not beyond the realms of possibility.  Lara Croft's famous assets were the result of a bug they decided not to fix, and GTA was born essentially by accident while developing something else.  It's easy to imagine them trying to fix something, trying new approaches, and stumbling across something completely new.

Remains to be seen, of course.  I do keep seeing mention of inactive leagues though, I'm hoping it isn't limited to that.  I was seeing intakes at a user club (and across the wider league) dwindle within 5 years to a couple of players, which is not great.

[ratio1618]

Ya'll need to chill TF out man. They have communicated and said a patch was coming. Theres nothing left to do but wait, quit going around in bloody circles.

[themadsheep2001]

Jordan has already asked for people to be more respectful to each other but this seems to be falling on a few deaf ears...If people can't behave in this thread, they will be removed from the thread

[Rashidi]

I think the OP's question was whether he should continue the save or not, trying to elicit an opinion whether it would be a worthwhile investment in his time, and I think that after 7 pages of feedback, I reckon there are enough opinions to that effect. However seeing that this thread has boiled over into a series of personal insults. Instead of seeing infractions, warnings and bans going out, what with all the holiday spirit and all, I reckon this thread should just be closed in the spirit of you know ..that time of the year. 

So while we can appreciate how everyone seems to be very passionate about their long term saves, I am fairly certain this issue is something that has attracted the attention of the people that matter at SI, that's assuming the bug reports have been filed. In the meantime let' close the thread and move onto other things.  Thread closed.

Have a merry weekend :-)