Are Trequartistas Pointless?

[FMunderachiever]

Why would anyone use a trequartista in their tactic?

Especially when you can use the attacking midfielder role to design a quasi-playmaker role with high work rate? even the advanced playmaker roles see players close down more whilst giving the creative and dribbling ability a trequartista would give.

The wide trequartista role just makes no sense at all to me.

The game is almost based around high energy pressing from the front. I dont see any point to picking basically a passenger in the team.

 

Thoughts?

[Hoof-it]

The treq is a wonderful role but people like high pressing and replicating liverpool. So it really never comes to peoples mind i think. I also think people use what they know.

[zyfon5]

6 hours ago, FMunderachiever said:

Why would anyone use a trequartista in their tactic?

Especially when you can use the attacking midfielder role to design a quasi-playmaker role with high work rate? even the advanced playmaker roles see players close down more whilst giving the creative and dribbling ability a trequartista would give.

The wide trequartista role just makes no sense at all to me.

The game is almost based around high energy pressing from the front. I dont see any point to picking basically a passenger in the team.

 

Thoughts?

Trequartista has coded movements that you could not replicate with other roles. It also has playmaker behavior. Even though it does not actively engage in pressing the trequartista can still be effective within certain tactics.

[Jack722]

The trequartista will still press if you use the right player.

Its the same thing as assigning a player with 1 work rate and 1 teamwork to be a pressing forward - they’re not going to press.

He’s not going to stand still during defence, unless you have a lazy player.

[summatsupeer]

Roles are more than just there instructions.  A CM-Su with Roaming added is not the same as a BBM.

Herne showed a good example of how he uses it in his possession topic:

 

[herne79]

TQs are awesome, been using them for years.  But - as always and with everything - the TQ role is just one cog in the overall wheel.  If the role is a bad fit in the rest of the system it won't work properly.  That applies to any setting you use.

One other point - the in game description of the TQ is based on traditional real life examples, so all flair but not much work rate.  But as @Jack722 rightly points out, the type of player you use will affect how the role plays.  So yeh, use someone with a low work rate and you'll get more of a traditional TQ on the pitch; but use someone with a high work rate and you'll get a different outcome.

10 hours ago, FMunderachiever said:

The wide trequartista role just makes no sense at all to me.

There's a little known player in Spain who the role is kind of based on.  He's not very famous so you probably haven't heard of him, he's called Lionel Messi . 

Joking aside, it's essentially the "give the ball to Messi" strategy.  So the wide TQ role is a playmaker role, and thus a ball magnet, with in built freedom of movement to attack the box, find space, make killer passes and score goals.  Design the system to get the ball to the TQ.  But again, the type of player you use will determine how the role plays out - so someone with good off the ball movement, creativity, vision, anticipation with complimentary Traits.  And then if you want to change things up a bit, add in some aggression and work rate to the mix.

[fmFutbolManager]

No way, they're awesome in the right system

I used Andreas Pereira at AMR in my Rennes save and he was amazing. Also used one as a striker who was equally amazing. 

[beverage1982]

3 hours ago, fmFutbolManager said:

No way, they're awesome in the right system

I used Andreas Pereira at AMR in my Rennes save and he was amazing. Also used one as a striker who was equally amazing. 

Was that in the 4141 you were rocking? I've been following that save but can't remember seeing it...

[fmFutbolManager]

32 minutes ago, beverage1982 said:

Was that in the 4141 you were rocking? I've been following that save but can't remember seeing it...

Yeah all slight variations of the 4-1-4-1 system. I'm back to an Advanced Forward now, but sometimes will swap if he gets isolated as he's more involved as a Treq. 

[beverage1982]

On 13/07/2020 at 04:03, herne79 said:

TQs are awesome, been using them for years.  But - as always and with everything - the TQ role is just one cog in the overall wheel.  If the role is a bad fit in the rest of the system it won't work properly.  That applies to any setting you use.

One other point - the in game description of the TQ is based on traditional real life examples, so all flair but not much work rate.  But as @Jack722 rightly points out, the type of player you use will affect how the role plays.  So yeh, use someone with a low work rate and you'll get more of a traditional TQ on the pitch; but use someone with a high work rate and you'll get a different outcome.

There's a little known player in Spain who the role is kind of based on.  He's not very famous so you probably haven't heard of him, he's called Lionel Messi . 

Joking aside, it's essentially the "give the ball to Messi" strategy.  So the wide TQ role is a playmaker role, and thus a ball magnet, with in built freedom of movement to attack the box, find space, make killer passes and score goals.  Design the system to get the ball to the TQ.  But again, the type of player you use will determine how the role plays out - so someone with good off the ball movement, creativity, vision, anticipation with complimentary Traits.  And then if you want to change things up a bit, add in some aggression and work rate to the mix.

Sorry for bumping this, but I'm intrigued by the line "Design the system to get the ball to the TQ." what would on example of that look like? 

[herne79]

3 hours ago, beverage1982 said:

Sorry for bumping this, but I'm intrigued by the line "Design the system to get the ball to the TQ." what would on example of that look like? 

Below is from FM19 but as an example the TQ in this system was my star player. 

There's a general misconception (this isn't aimed at you) that us managers need to give our players all manner of instructions to do certain things, whereas the opposite is typically true.  Players in game are perfectly capable of playing football all by themselves without us trying to tell them how.  Instructions (which aren't actually "instructions"; more like tendencies) are only really there to help us achieve a certain style of play (eg., possession tactics) and/or address very specific requirements (such as having a higher defensive line).  So if we overburden our players unnecessarily, things can very quickly become confused on the pitch.

Likewise not giving enough attention to how roles & duties combine with each other or how the players themselves might combine with their assigned roles can cause issues.  So a TQ (to continue the example) needs space if he's to flourish.  He's supposedly perfectly capable of creating that space for himself due to the role's in-built instructions, but what if the player himself lacks off the ball movement?  Or anticipation?  Or acceleration?  Then again other players around him can help create space for him, but what if they equally lack movement either due to their assigned roles and/or their attributes?  Further, what happens if we add in a 2nd or even a 3rd "playmaker" role to our system?  How does a TQ continue to be the star attraction then?  And finally we can also add back in, and come full circle to, players which have possibly been overburdened with all manner of instructions which (worst case) may restrict players from properly carrying out their roles.

Don't get me wrong - I'm not saying roles such as the TQ should only be used in such circumstances (far from it), but it's important to understand how everything combines together.  And, as a wiser man than me once said (@HUNT3R), start with the basics and add gradually from there rather than throwing everything at the kitchen sink and trying to remove things.

 

[LPQR]

I wrote a while back about my interpretation of the Fantasista role through the use of a Trequartista in FM, check it out, might answer some questions

 

 

 

[beverage1982]

7 hours ago, herne79 said:

Below is from FM19 but as an example the TQ in this system was my star player. 

There's a general misconception (this isn't aimed at you) that us managers need to give our players all manner of instructions to do certain things, whereas the opposite is typically true.  Players in game are perfectly capable of playing football all by themselves without us trying to tell them how.  Instructions (which aren't actually "instructions"; more like tendencies) are only really there to help us achieve a certain style of play (eg., possession tactics) and/or address very specific requirements (such as having a higher defensive line).  So if we overburden our players unnecessarily, things can very quickly become confused on the pitch.

Likewise not giving enough attention to how roles & duties combine with each other or how the players themselves might combine with their assigned roles can cause issues.  So a TQ (to continue the example) needs space if he's to flourish.  He's supposedly perfectly capable of creating that space for himself due to the role's in-built instructions, but what if the player himself lacks off the ball movement?  Or anticipation?  Or acceleration?  Then again other players around him can help create space for him, but what if they equally lack movement either due to their assigned roles and/or their attributes?  Further, what happens if we add in a 2nd or even a 3rd "playmaker" role to our system?  How does a TQ continue to be the star attraction then?  And finally we can also add back in, and come full circle to, players which have possibly been overburdened with all manner of instructions which (worst case) may restrict players from properly carrying out their roles.

Don't get me wrong - I'm not saying roles such as the TQ should only be used in such circumstances (far from it), but it's important to understand how everything combines together.  And, as a wiser man than me once said (@HUNT3R), start with the basics and add gradually from there rather than throwing everything at the kitchen sink and trying to remove things.

 

Thanks for that, I'd missed that thread before and it's opened my eyes to a lot of things I'm doing wrong. In terms of a balanced layout does the below look okay? Obviously taking into account player traits, attributes etc. 

My theory is Grealish is the main outlet, with options to do something himself or set up the striker, CM (A) or Winger (who I might turn into an IF)

I'd actually made my WB a defend duty before reading that piece so I'm glad not all my tactical decisions are crackpot  

[XuluBak]

Not only are they not pointless, I'd argue that with the right player, in the right setup, they're one of the best roles in FM20. (Only used one out wide last year, but that worked pretty well too)

[sherifdinn_]

Wow. A thread that questions the best AM role on Football manager.

4 hours ago, beverage1982 said:

Thanks for that, I'd missed that thread before and it's opened my eyes to a lot of things I'm doing wrong. In terms of a balanced layout does the below look okay? Obviously taking into account player traits, attributes etc. 

My theory is Grealish is the main outlet, with options to do something himself or set up the striker, CM (A) or Winger (who I might turn into an IF)

I'd actually made my WB a defend duty before reading that piece so I'm glad not all my tactical decisions are crackpot  

The Trequartista role is much like a playmaker so naturally picking it, is like telling the player, "hey, I'm giving you license to come inside and offer yourself across the final third". When he does that, you nee to balance accordingly. Use a WB•At to balance out the left side.

[sherifdinn_]

I made this longer than it ought to be.

Just now, sherifdinn_ said:

The Trequartista role is much like a playmaker so naturally picking it, is like telling the player, "hey, I'm giving you license to come inside and offer yourself across the final third". When he does that, you nee to balance accordingly. Use a WB•At to balance out the left side.

 

[XuluBak]

1 hour ago, rossenori said:

what would you use behind him in LB/RB position?

WB(s) with the CM on that side providing cover. The exact role for the CM depends greatly on the rest of the setup. 

I wouldn't use one out wide in a 4231. Overall, I prefer the role as a #10, because they get more opportunities, have more options, and are better covered defensively. 

[craigd84]

i still cannot get my Treq to be effective at all. I want him to be my talisman as its a rule i have on my save. Everyone of my 3 tactics must use a Treq. i have used all support roles around him, i have used a mix and used attack, i just cannot get him to work.

[Gravy007]

On 23/07/2020 at 15:10, sherifdinn_ said:

The Trequartista role is much like a playmaker so naturally picking it, is like telling the player, "hey, I'm giving you license to come inside and offer yourself across the final third". When he does that, you nee to balance accordingly. Use a WB•At to balance out the left side.

Alternatively to using a wingback to cover the Trequartista's space, what if I were to play a mezzala? Would the mezza and treq only end up taking up each other's space?

[Xavier Lukhas]

On 13/07/2020 at 02:35, FMunderachiever said:

Thoughts?

To be honest, I found the AP(A) with Roam From Position does basically everything the Treq does without giving up defensive ability. Even when I use a player with decent Teamwork, Work Rate, Aggression and Bravery, the Treq still has that pesky "Ease Off Tackles" PI that prevents them from fully committing to their challenges. They close down but then don't truly commit, preventing them from being an actual threat to the ball carrier. Actually AP(A) would even be objectively better if they didn't have that annoying "Dribble More" instruction forced in. They're a good creative outlet, they also do score and pick their spots to make their attempts, and with Roam From Position they also are more available and aren't locked out of the game as much... for an AMC in the current meta/ME. You can even tell them to Get Further Forward.

The real question I wondered isn't so much "Are Treqs pointless?", but more "if I had a playmaker, why would I choose a Treq or an Enganche over an AP". For the Enganche the question was quickly answered: never, they're too static; and now that they're on Support duty, they're incredibly useless due to their lower Mentality being stacked on their innate lack of movement. For the Treq... well I'd need a player that I don't mind not challenging too hard for the ball, that I don't want to or is too dumb not to Dribble More (because an AP who isn't dumb doesn't always attempt to dribble like a freaking Winger), but somehow doesn't Shoot Less Often. I have a hard time finding a use for the role; not for the player type, as I like playmakers who can both play their team mates in and score. It's just the role that's... meh.

That being said, if you want a fancy, very one footed, injury prone, not quite professional and pretty selfish creator like Recoba instead of a boring, pretty selfless, two-footed creator with a competitive streak that essentially maximised his potential like Zidane, well be my guest. I wouldn't blame you: I also played PES Master League in the mid-00s with (or mostly against) that absurdly good Inter squad. Those are good memories. You'd forgive him anything when his left foot found the net from range.

I just wouldn't play him as a Treq in FM if I had the choice!

Edited September 3, 2020 by Xavier Lukhas

[Zendahl]

On 13/07/2020 at 02:35, FMunderachiever said:

Why would anyone use a trequartista in their tactic?

Especially when you can use the attacking midfielder role to design a quasi-playmaker role with high work rate? even the advanced playmaker roles see players close down more whilst giving the creative and dribbling ability a trequartista would give.

The wide trequartista role just makes no sense at all to me.

The game is almost based around high energy pressing from the front. I dont see any point to picking basically a passenger in the team.

 

Thoughts?

I present to you the Barcelona side I play in 2022/23 that uses Messi as the primary player when it comes to goal contributions in the Trequartista role. Now, Messi is not a player that will press to win the ball back due to him having low workrate and going on 35 he has declining physicals. What I have though is a player free to drop deep and roam to get the ball, play killer balls to the Mezzala, Winger and IF who are the first players to run ahead of him, and when he then gets in the box hes able to finish off the moves he started. I cant recreate this type of movement and focus on goal contributions with any other role. The team around him works hard off the ball to make the press work. Messi will still be an obstacle due to him positioning himself so that hes still a body in the way. If I play Mbappé in the Treq role he would on the other hand do mostly the same things on the ball depending on PPMs but off the ball he would be working hard to press as he has high work rate, stamina and somewhat decent teamwork. Its not just the role that matters, its the player playing the role aswell.

[zyfon5]

4 hours ago, Xavier Lukhas said:

To be honest, I found the AP(A) with Roam From Position does basically everything the Treq does without giving up defensive ability. Even when I use a player with decent Teamwork, Work Rate, Aggression and Bravery, the Treq still has that pesky "Ease Off Tackles" PI that prevents them from fully committing to their challenges. They close down but then don't truly commit, preventing them from being an actual threat to the ball carrier. Actually AP(A) would even be objectively better if they didn't have that annoying "Dribble More" instruction forced in. They're a good creative outlet, they also do score and pick their spots to make their attempts, and with Roam From Position they also are more available and aren't locked out of the game as much... for an AMC in the current meta/ME. You can even tell them to Get Further Forward.

The real question I wondered isn't so much "Are Treqs pointless?", but more "if I had a playmaker, why would I choose a Treq or an Enganche over an AP". For the Enganche the question was quickly answered: never, they're too static; and now that they're on Support duty, they're incredibly useless due to their lower Mentality being stacked on their innate lack of movement. For the Treq... well I'd need a player that I don't mind not challenging too hard for the ball, that I don't want to or is too dumb not to Dribble More (because an AP who isn't dumb doesn't always attempt to dribble like a freaking Winger), but somehow doesn't Shoot Less Often. I have a hard time finding a use for the role; not for the player type, as I like playmakers who can both play their team mates in and score. It's just the role that's... meh.

That being said, if you want a fancy, very one footed, injury prone, not quite professional and pretty selfish creator like Recoba instead of a boring, pretty selfless, two-footed creator with a competitive streak that essentially maximised his potential like Zidane, well be my guest. I wouldn't blame you: I also played PES Master League in the mid-00s with (or mostly against) that absurdly good Inter squad. Those are good memories. You'd forgive him anything when his left foot found the net from range.

I just wouldn't play him as a Treq in FM if I had the choice!

Trequatista has hard coded movements in the game that you will not be able to create with other roles. Even if you put an AM(s) with all the PI of treq he will still play differently than a real trequatista.

[Xavier Lukhas]

2 hours ago, zyfon5 said:

Trequatista has hard coded movements in the game that you will not be able to create with other roles. Even if you put an AM(s) with all the PI of treq he will still play differently than a real trequatista.

Sure why not, but that's not very specific. It's not as if no one here has tried the role, so do share your experience in how they compare with other roles.

Edited September 3, 2020 by Xavier Lukhas

[zyfon5]

5 hours ago, Xavier Lukhas said:

Sure why not, but that's not very specific. It's not as if no one here has tried the role, so do share your experience in how they compare with other roles.

Advanced playmaker will always try to make himself available as a passing option while trequartista is both a creator and scorer role. Hence, an advanced playmaker even if on attack duty rarely moves forward to join with the striker they will always be a bit behind the most forward attacking line. The AP also mostly moves in the central area. A trequartista on the other hand will join the striker in attack while making more lateral movements sometimes in the AML/AMR position if the space is available. Hence in most of Bayern replication tactics you will see the AMC role played by Muller is a trequartista which is the closest you will get to real life.

[JarheadFM]

I think a Trequartista is probably the best role on the game, AM or as striker. Works fine in high pressing tactic if you use OIs to press the defenders. I like they way they just find space, as an AM I think you need support roles around him. CF s or F9 up top with wide men as support roles as well

[leeisted]

The TQ role is literally the best player role on the game, just not seen by a lot of uploaded tactics as they all use OP gegenpress normally in a 4-2-3-1. Whatever tactic style/formation I use, I always fit in a TQ, normally in a AMCL role without a player at AML or AMC, space is very important I find, idon't want a player restricting him, giving him the freedom of the middle of the park and out wide left works wonders he literally pops up everywhere in acres of space and bangs in goals, plenty of assists and can switch the play to the AMR. The best players personally I've had the most success with in this role are Grealish, Gravenberch, Nuno Santos and Eze 

[Xavier Lukhas]

6 hours ago, zyfon5 said:

Advanced playmaker will always try to make himself available as a passing option while trequartista is both a creator and scorer role. Hence, an advanced playmaker even if on attack duty rarely moves forward to join with the striker they will always be a bit behind the most forward attacking line. The AP also mostly moves in the central area. A trequartista on the other hand will join the striker in attack while making more lateral movements sometimes in the AML/AMR position if the space is available. Hence in most of Bayern replication tactics you will see the AMC role played by Muller is a trequartista which is the closest you will get to real life.

Thanks for your more detailed reply. Then I'll go back to do exactly what I used to do (and what I wrote earlier) in such cases: play an AP(A) with Roam From Position. Solves everything for me, even the goal scoring side of things; well, except for "Dribble More".

Edited September 4, 2020 by Xavier Lukhas

[sejo]

7 ore fa, leeisted ha scritto:

The TQ role is literally the best player role on the game, just not seen by a lot of uploaded tactics as they all use OP gegenpress normally in a 4-2-3-1. Whatever tactic style/formation I use, I always fit in a TQ, normally in a AMCL role without a player at AML or AMC, space is very important I find, idon't want a player restricting him, giving him the freedom of the middle of the park and out wide left works wonders he literally pops up everywhere in acres of space and bangs in goals, plenty of assists and can switch the play to the AMR. The best players personally I've had the most success with in this role are Grealish, Gravenberch, Nuno Santos and Eze 

So how would you setup a 4-2-3-1 with TQ on #10 role?

 

GK

IFB(s) -- CD (m) -- BPD (d) -- FB (s)

                          HB

                MEZ (s) -- CAR

                      TQ ---------------- IF (a)

                       DLP (a)

Edited September 4, 2020 by sejo

[denen123]

Top 3 player roles since FM11(i think, i've lost track), in my humble opinion:

1. DLP-(de/su)

2. Target Man(su/att)

3. Treq - att.

Treq doesn't have that forced "get further forward" effect that an SS or an AM-att (especially in this year's version, where attack duties are basically "go do your own thing" roles & utilizes that late forward run that isn't as prevalent in an AP-a). It's also a myth that he/she does not press. It does, but not as much/zonally. 

I, admittedly, use the role in an assymetric 4-2-4 with an offset PF-a on the right and an IW-su on the left, with a W-su on RM & a WB-a offering primary width on LB. He's then protective by a dlp-de & BWM-su (another role making it's resurgence in this FM version). 

My Treq has double figures for goals & assists(a lot of which, set pieces, but who really cares). Zaracho/Ziyech/Sarabia/J.rod/Majer are just some of the best ones. Dybala, i think is the ultimate one. I've even used pogba there. His lack of workrate added more realism for me, personally, in that role. 

Good role.

 

[sejo]

3 minuti fa, denen123 ha scritto:

I, admittedly, use the role in an assymetric 4-2-4 with an offset PF-a on the right and an IW-su on the left, with a W-su on RM & a WB-a offering primary width on LB. He's then protective by a dlp-de & BWM-su (another role making it's resurgence in this FM version). 

You mean like this?

                              PF(a)

IF(s)--------------- TQ ---------------- W(s)

                DLP(d) -- BWM(s)

WB(a) -- CD (d) -- BPD (d) -- FB (s)

[denen123]

24 minutes ago, sejo said:

You mean like this?

                              PF(a)

IF(s)--------------- TQ ---------------- W(s)

                DLP(d) -- BWM(s)

WB(a) -- CD (d) -- BPD (d) -- FB (s)

Yes but as i said, assymetric.

PF-a = ST- right

TQ = AMCL

W-su = RM instead of RW.

IW-su instead of IF-su, to avoid a "jam" of clash.

The reason for the assymetric is primarily to avoid a clash (two roles untop of each other during transitions & to get my TQ to act as an ST).

It's also not "plug & play". I hardly ever manage small teams( Do we consider Ajax/Benfica small? If then, that'll be the exceptions). 

 

[sejo]

29 minuti fa, denen123 ha scritto:

Yes but as i said, assymetric.

PF-a = ST- right

TQ = AMCL

W-su = RM instead of RW.

IW-su instead of IF-su, to avoid a "jam" of clash.

The reason for the assymetric is primarily to avoid a clash (two roles untop of each other during transitions & to get my TQ to act as an ST).

It's also not "plug & play". I hardly ever manage small teams( Do we consider Ajax/Benfica small? If then, that'll be the exceptions). 

 

It's interesting because I'm working on something similar (asymetric). I would like my TQ to be the key player and then the IF (or IW) act as Cristiano Ronaldo way.

[denen123]

1 minute ago, sejo said:

It's interesting because I'm working on something similar (asymetric). I would like my TQ to be the key player and then the IF (or IW) act as Cristiano Ronaldo way.

Oh, i had a nice Juve save. Ronaldo as any "role" will bag you at least 35 G/A 😂 (Depends on the system, but he takes PK's, so, no bother). Dybala uses left foot, so he slotted into the TQ role, nicely (added "run wide with ball" to make him more "evasive" of the opposition holding MF, acting as a pseudo-winger, with those De Bruyne like passes). Higuain uses Right, & i think has decent aggression(i think I'm obsessed with this attribute). He played PF-a on the right.

In first season:

CR bagged the usual 40 + G/A(save is pretty old, so i can't really say exactly. But he was Balon d'or )

Higuain 37 G/A.

Dybala suffered a bit. 25 G/A. But, i think i didn't manage fitness well that season.

We lost the UCL to Liverpool. We would go on to lose the next 3 to them and Atletico again in the final till i quit the save and used PSG. 

So, yes, i love TQ. Just needs freedom, but at the same time support. The role just has so much balance. SI now made the role to come deeper during transitions. That just solidified it, to me, as a top 3 role. a deity of FM20.

[Novem9]

2 часа назад, Analog сказал:

Treq does well for me.  Set up my tactic to utilize it this season.

 

Very interesting left overloading, really didnt see something before

[anxiousAnarchist]

I've actually had great success with the Trequartista at STC in my current save w/ Servette FC. I know the description of the Trequartista makes them sound like a lazy luxury player, but they do actually press, and I love a creating-finishing hybrid type striker. It's just about identifying the specifics of what you need. No, a Trequartista won't put pressure on the opposition backline like a PF, but not every tactic needs that. What every tactic does need is someone who can pick out dangerous balls, get themselves into open space, and unlock defenses. Put one or two attacking players around them who can break the lines and I think it can actually be very effective.

I think people make a mistake trying to play an Trequartista at AMC, as you often need a more aggressive, committed presence in that area of the pitch. But a striker probably doesn't contributed a ton to the defense of your average team to begin with. Trequartista at STC is actually quite a effective role in my experience

[Flußkrebs]

Just to add to this, in my York City save we have just been promoted to League 2 (season 4) and are currently sat top of the table after 13 games.

For the majority of my save I've used a relatively aggressive 442 tactic which lines up like this:

            CFs-CFs

WMa-CMs-CMs-WMa

FBs-CDd-CDd -FBs

 

I've been going with the most 'generic' roles in each position so I can tinker with PIs based on the opposition and use mentality to control the game (usually switch between Attacking, Balanced, and Cautious).

For the past 25 games or so (end of last season, start of this season) I've switched to a:

         TQa-CFs

WMa-CMs-CMs-WMa

FBs-CDd-CDd-FBs

And I've had fantastic results out of the TQ:

(As an aside, I really don't buy the 'this player doesn't have the attributes to play X role, outside of BPD. I've had brilliant players playing as TQ, CF etc who have shown as mostly red for that role on the tactics screen. They do well because relative to the opposition they are good, and its the hard coded behaviour that I'm after. Something to think about.)

These are the observed changes I've seen watching the games with our main man as a TQa rather than the previous CFs:

• Runs very wide off the ball- sometimes even left of the left channel/closer to the wing. This usually finds him either in a pocket of space behind the opposition full back when there is a turnover.
• The TQ in my mind is a very special sort of striker as he can act as a de facto target man. My player has very good heading and balance for this level, and the hard coded ball magnet status of the TQ (as a playmaker) usually makes him the first outlet on the counter.
• As the only Very Attacking mentality player I have up front, he will often when not on the ball make short, fast runs into the box from the edge of the penalty area, losing his man.
• This is super useful as I have anecdotally noticed a massive increase in squareing of the ball to the TQ. Why? I'm assuming because of this ball magnet playmaker status that he is, the rightwinger and CF will be much more likely to look for the pass to him rather than shoot themselves. And because he's playing as a striker rather than a 10 or a winger, this really results in many more squared balls and goals than the usual blasting into the side netting which I know a lot of players find annoying. 
• Because of his built in risky passing/playmaker role, he will also thread some very nice through balls and get nice inswinging crosses in from the left (he is right footed). 
• He still leads the press (I have more urgent pressing on, and play with HLOE/HLOD). I do not play with prevent short GK distribution. Tips I've picked up from users such as @Experienced Defender about this being counterproductive are true, for the most part. The TQ with my pressing settings results in a very good balance of him pressing the Right CB and FB without going overboard.

The main downside(?) I have noticed is that he is now my main scorer. Sorted by goals scored:

My tactic used to spread the goals equally around both widemen and both strikers. Now he is perhaps the single most important outlet for the side. Messi-esque? Not necessarily a bad thing, as we are doing very well in the league, and if the results are coming in I'm happy to keep this going. But definitely a shift in playstyle. Thankfully he hasn't been badly injured yet!

So yes- the Trequartista as a striker in a 2 man pair at least is a fantastic role. I have not had much luck at all with a TQ as a number 10 but the rest of the thread deals with that. Try him out in a 352 or 442, the behaviour makes for some really satisfying highlights!

PS: The tactic works primarily due to an absolutely aerially dominant and fast (for League 2) centre-back I have who has the trait 'stays back at all times'. I play him as a CB-D but he covers for the vast majority of long balls and counters. 

Edit:

Some more info taking a good 2-1 away against Tranmere. The Trequartista scored both our goals. 

With the ball: 

Without the ball:

First goal, lovely example of the squaring of the ball (will have to make do with screenshots):

Stevenson, our right sided CF steals the ball off their LCB as they try to play out from the back.

Stevenson squares it to King (TQa), who has lost his man.

King squeezes it past the keeper, 1-0.

I can't upload any more screenshots due to size limitations, but the other goal was a flicked lob of a finish (player trait) after a short cross from the WMa who was just inside the box, after the TQ camped in the 6 yard box. 

King also made 2 key passes, one of which was a CCC. The CCC on reflection was actually gorgeous- a Tranmere freekick from a dangerous position gets blocked by our CM, who immediately plays a long ball to King at the halfway line (Target Man like behaviour...). King runs down the wing with it, cuts inside on his right foot, and squares it with the outside of his foot to our right WMa who puts it just wide. Should've been an assist!

 

 

Edited September 10, 2020 by Flußkrebs

[Angus Osborne]

Am I missing something?

I've been trying to set up a Bielsa-Leeds tactic, so use Extremely Urgent Pressing. I went through all the roles and duties for AML and AMR and chose Trequartista for both purely because they have "Standard" pressing and the most i could get for any other role was "Less Urgent" pressing. 

The wide Trequartistas seem pretty defensively sound to me, and their positioning in possession has been great. 

[Jean0987654321]

It's not pointless if you have the right system and players around the treq.

[32MJ32]

@Analog - thanks for sharing, mate. Great write up.

I have had my hand "forced"* into playing a 4-3-3 Narrow as I'm in my 3rd season with Inter and now have 3 of the best strikers in the game in Lukaku, Lautaro and Esposito. I'm having some good success but now I am going to experiment playing Lautaro as a Treq. Appreciate the inspiration.

* just don't want to sell any of them/enjoying messing around in my 9,000th hour of gametime in this year's version

[32MJ32]

On 10/09/2020 at 19:29, Flußkrebs said:

This is super useful as I have anecdotally noticed a massive increase in squareing of the ball to the TQ. Why? I'm assuming because of this ball magnet playmaker status that he is, the rightwinger and CF will be much more likely to look for the pass to him rather than shoot themselves. And because he's playing as a striker rather than a 10 or a winger, this really results in many more squared balls and goals than the usual blasting into the side netting which I know a lot of players find annoying. 

So I played around 15 fixtures from Jan til season end  with a 4-3-3 Narrow and the TQ in the slot on the far right (Martinez). I understand there's some skepticism around 4-3-3 Narrow and "breaking" the ME but I have neither the smarts, time nor inclination to try that. I just wanted to get 3 of the best players in the league on the field at once (Lukaku, Esposito, Martinez).

(I'd also argue there's nothing wildly different about an IF - ST- IF to a STCL - STC - STCR  setup, especially if the wide two STC's were asked to Stay Wider and man mark the opposing DL/DR which mine were. Semantics, really. )

The other point of interest worth sharing is that although a 4-3-3 Narrow may look like suicide against top opposition, we put 3 past Man City at the Etihad with this and then beat Juve 5-1 and 4-0. The press you can achieve with 3 attackers in the highest positional strata is - quite obviously - outstanding. As long as you have wheels, intent and tackling in midfield and defense - and a non-ridiculous assignment of duties - you're quite hard to break down.

Back to the topic, your testimony is correct (per my own anecdotal review) : The supply to the TQ far outpoints the usual supply to any other F role. This is great if you want to feature one of your STC's, but less great if you want to be more democratic 

Your note about the TQ drifting wide was also spot on

For anyone still reading and considering implementing, I actually took @Experienced Defender ideas from another thread about a 4-3-3 narrow and had the F's like this:
 

AF(A) - DLF(S) - TQ 

The TQ and the AF flourished - TQ far post crosses to the AF were abundant - but the DLF was basically a decoy. After cycling through a ton of roles in that central spot, I gave up. I didn't use a TI to Focus Play Through The Middle which may have helped but... why do that when you have a Treq on the flank?

In short, I don't think the TQ is pointless, at all. It does what it says on the tin, which is become the designated playmaker for your side in the attacking third. My 2 cents is that you want to give this guy space. I played a CAR in the CM slot behind him and basically gave him the the whole right flank to drift around in before the WB got there to help out.

Another way to achieve this may be to play the TQ in the centre, put a CM(D) behind, and then have your two wide players stay wide. 

 

Edited September 21, 2020 by 32MJ32

[Experienced Defender]

3 hours ago, 32MJ32 said:

For anyone still reading and considering implementing, I actually took @Experienced Defender ideas from another thread about a 4-3-3 narrow and had the F's like this:
 

AF(A) - DLF(S) - TQ

I guess it was back in FM18, because that was the last time I used the narrow 433. And I think it was primarily for experimental purposes. I haven't used that formation since, simply because it has not been suitable for any of the teams I've managed in the meantime. But if I manage Liverpool, I'll most probably go with the narrow 433 (or narrow 4123) 

[Keyzer Soze]

Anyone try playing with a wide TQ and with a MEZ(s) on the same side?

Something like this:

DLF(a)

IF(s)                                 TQ(a)

DLP(s)     MEZ(s)

DM(s)

WB(a)     CD(d)     CD(d)     WB(s)

Would they conflict with each other?

Any in relation with the forward role, DLF(a), can the TQ(a) link well with a forward with attacking duty, or should he have a support duty?

[NotSoSpecialOne]

I've sporadically employed a Wide TQ in the past and they seem to naturally spread the width a bit more than some of the other wide options (and can be given Stay Wider PI if need be as well). So with a MEZ(s) naturally moving into the half spaces, it should provide a passing option for when the TQ does move out wider (and helps it not get isolated). And if he comes inside, maybe you overload the opposition fullback?

Will be looking to try that pair combination in my next season though.

[32MJ32]

10 hours ago, Keyzer Soze said:

Anyone try playing with a wide TQ and with a MEZ(s) on the same side?

Something like this:

DLF(a)

IF(s)                                 TQ(a)

DLP(s)     MEZ(s)

DM(s)

WB(a)     CD(d)     CD(d)     WB(s)

Would they conflict with each other?

Any in relation with the forward role, DLF(a), can the TQ(a) link well with a forward with attacking duty, or should he have a support duty?

I tried this as well. They work well together, I didn't see much conflict. The TQ has such free movement that he rarely sits on top of the MEZ

[Keyzer Soze]

And what about the forward role? 

Should it be a attacking duty, like a DLF(a) or even a PF(a) or a AF(a), or someone with a support duty? 

[NotSoSpecialOne]

I'm trying it with a CF(A) at present (but with different personnel I would still be using some forward role on attack duty).

 

My logic here being, TQ is still a creator and thus needs options to play in when he isn't making a chance for himself. Support duty forward might be too conservative in that regard. Will see how it plays for a few matches.

[Keyzer Soze]

1 hour ago, NotSoSpecialOne said:

I'm trying it with a CF(A) at present (but with different personnel I would still be using some forward role on attack duty).

 

My logic here being, TQ is still a creator and thus needs options to play in when he isn't making a chance for himself. Support duty forward might be too conservative in that regard. Will see how it plays for a few matches.

Yeah, i've started using a DLF(a), but in the last couple of games i've changed for a AF(a). Since then my team score two beauties by through balls from the TQ to the AF.

Gonna try now with the PF(a). Perhaps the PF(a) can compensate a little the fact that the TQ don't close down as much as the rest of the team.

[Keyzer Soze]

Hi again,

A little help here. I never quite understood how to read heat maps in FM.

Bellow is a screenshot of my tactic in my last game and the heat map of thata game. What can i read from it, in terms of how the players link together?

I notice that in the opponent box theres nothing... is this normal?

 

Edited September 22, 2020 by Keyzer Soze

[xavierm]

Nothing in the opponent box : you might want to uncheck "work ball into box"

Your heatmap basically shows your team spent quite all the time passing the ball around the box. Your AF seems isolated and is getting no support either from CM, or from your Treq.

 

 

 

[NotSoSpecialOne]

I wouldn't be concerned about that, as it's showing your possession - you're never really spending that much time in the opposition box whilst in possession for it to register. Chances are if you are in possession in the opposition box you're about to attempt to  finish. Here's a couple of examples though (one with a blown out scoreline to solidify the point). 

 

Player movement, passing combinations and other tools may be better suited to providing you with the sort of information to determine how well players are linking together. I am a novice with them though, so grain of salt.