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Everything posted by Jack722

  1. I still play this this tactic against teams that are as good as me/worse than me: I'm pretty sure that, if I change Tieleman's role to a non playmaking role and/or move my CM's back to the DM strata, Maddison would create more chances. But I'm a bit reluctant to do this, as my fullbacks aren't that attacking, and I feel like the DM's would be slightly too conservative. I think I'll try Tielemans as a CMs the next time I open up the save and see what happens. I used to have a pretty big issue with the CAM in FM19. But since I've moved to FM20, although my results aren't as good as they used to be, my CAM's tend to play so much better. I'd be willing to bet that if I loaded the same database, and same tactic into the FM19, Maddison would have something like 1 goal and 0 assists in the same number of games. You can also tell by the ratings, whenever we won a game, eveyone would be on like a 7.5, and my CAM would be the only one on 7.0. Whereas, when we were losing or drawing, everyone would be on like a 6.5, when my CAM would be on a 6.0. Even though his asissts aren't amazing, you can tell by his average ratings that he is at least contributing as much as the others.
  2. I think he is currently on 4 goals and 3 assists in 12 games, but 2 of the assists were from corner kicks. Vardy pretty much scores 90% of our goals haha. In the Spurs game, he got a hattrick, and overall he has 16 goals in 12 games. I'm fairly sure that I'm going to change Maddison's role to an AMa, or offset him slightly to the left. As Tielemans actaully does most the playmaking and it sometimes leaves Maddison redundant. Making him more of a goalscorer than a creator could also probably take a bit of the pressure off of Vardy as well.
  3. tl;dr at bottom if you cba to read, also, a lot of you probably already know this - I just like to write about my thought process. Recently, I came across a highlights video of Manchester United's 2010/11 season, and what stood out to me most was Nani's contributions. I'm no United fan, and I've heard mixed opinions on Nani so it's probably just the highlights reel, but to me he looked absolutely unstoppable playing as a classic right winger, beating his man with pace and trickery before delivering a cross. This inspired me to create a tactic based on traditional wingers and crosses. The team I chose was Leicester, as they have two decent young wingers in Harvey Barnes and Demarai Gray, and I'm a big fan of helping hot prospects grow. Leicester also obviously have the brilliant Jamie Vardy who has excellent pace and movement. As Vardy is much faster and intelligent than he is good in the air, we will hit early crosses, to try and use his pace to catch the opposition centrebacks napping. Adding in James Maddison to the mix, we have a technical attacking midfielder who can play through balls into Vardy, or the wingers. This gave me a well balanced attacking tactic, as if the other team defends narrow, they give space to our wingers, whereas if they defend wider, space will be given to Maddison to play through balls. And if they drop deep, Maddison and Tielemans both have 15 and 14 for longshots repectively - not amazing, but more than enough to punish a side that gives us too much space on the edge of the box. However, what I was most excited about was out ability to counter. Our front 4 combined had such a good combination of pace, flair and clinicalness, that I thought we'd easily be able to blow away any of the 'big 6' or teams that push high up and overcommit men forward. Here is what the final tactic and first XI looked like: Now, obviously, I was quite excited to see that I was playing one of the 'big six' in three of my first four league games. For the first game against Manchester United, all I changed was to remove Counter-Press to replace it with Regroup. I also had a Lower Line of Engagement both to help me be a bit more solid defensively. After all this time spent trying to think up a good tactic and the optimism I had, we were obivously going to get pumped 3 - 0. The scoreline doesn't even do it justice - we were horrendous. The game took forever to finish, as Man Utd were getting a highlight pretty much every two seconds. These kinds of games actually fairly reguarly happen to me, and it even got to the point where I would normally just holiday through games against teams with mch bigger reputations than me as I would rather just cut to the chase. Obviously, you should never expect to win against teams that are better than you, but these match stats are pretty shocking - you would expect a mid table/ top half team like Leciester to be able to at least create a few decent chances in these sorts of games. But now I'm pretty sure I know where I'm going wrong. I also feel like it's an easy trap to fall in to and I hope that it can help a few people who are reading this. When playing these sorts of games, and especially when my forwards are quick, I always try to play risky on the ball. Because, surely as the other team pushes players forwards and presses, that you leaves space for you to exploit and you should therefore pass into space? I want to catch the other team on the counter after they overcommit, so surely I should play with a higher mentality and higher tempo? etc. The problem with this, is that you end up pissing the ball away far too easily. Combine this with a lower block and regrouping, and your going to hardly have the ball. This means that your defence will eventually crack under pressure. As well as this, the counter instruction will ask your team to counter anyway - but only when the time is right. Having a higher mentality and passing into space and playing with a higher tempo doesn't actually increase your chances of a counter. The frequency of counters are much more related to your pressing instructions, and how many men you leave forward when defending, and whether you counter or hold shape. With these high risk instructions, I'm much more likely to see my full back step up out of position, lose the ball needlessly in a dangerous area by trying to pass into space, and then get countered myself, rather than score on the counter. After watching the game and realising this, I toned down my tacitc massively for my next two games against big sides. This is what I played: The big changes being: Shorter Passing and a Postive Cautious mentality. Seeing as we actually have some very good technical players, most notably in Maddison, Tielemans and two natural Ball Playing Centrebacks, I decided to try and hold on to the ball more when we had it, which relieved some of the pressure from our defence. As we still had Counter ticked, we were still going to be able to use our rapid pace on the counter, but only when the time was right. And as we were against a big team, there was always going to be chances on the counter. Like I said before, when the opposition isn't out of position, we want to give our defenders a rest by keeping the ball. Here was our next game against Liverpool: Already miles better than the first game against Man Utd. We actually were able to create a fair few chances of our own, including two CCC's - more than Liverpool. We still had less possession and fewer shots, so despite the shorter passing, we were still quite clearly a more counter attacking side. This was definately far from a lucky draw - we deserved it. And the final game against the then top of the table Spurs: We played the exact same way, and absolutely tore them apart. We let them have 54% possession, without allowing them to create a single chance. Also, creating nine chances, with five of them being clear cut, is impressive agains any side, let a lone Spurs. I'm not saying that it's always best to play short passing, if you have a target man, it may be best to releive pressure by going more direct, and allowing your target man to hold up the ball for teammates. tl;dr The point of this thread was more to do with not getting your in transition and in possession instructions mixed up. Don't automatically select 'higher tempo, pass into space' etc only because you want to hit big teams on the counter.
  4. In FM19, I would always play a defensive style of football, and regularly succeed (defensively passive, so: regroup lower LOE etc). it also wouldn’t just be to overachieve with lower level teams, A lot of the time, I was able to win trophies playing this way, kind of like Mourinho and Simeone I recently bought FM20, and I am struggling a lot though. When I try to play this way, I regularly get dominated by lower reputation sides, and get smashed by big teams. I also found a website that I like that tries to replicate real life managers in FM. And I’ve noticed that they have also been struggling playing defensively in FM20. For example, Here is a replication of Mourinho. They were playing defensively passive and weren’t happy with there results, so kept everything the same, but ticked all the off the ball Gegenpressing instructions (much higher line, counterpress etc) and saw a marked improvement immediately. The same also happened in an Alex Ferguson tactic. i found the same with my tactics, I was playing as a fast team that wasn’t very creative but was defensively solid, so tried to play on the counter, and we were getting destroyed by teams of all reputations (not just getting 0-0s against defensive teams). I also felt like I learnt a lot about counter attacking from FM19, so I was avoiding all the common mistakes (cautios + lower dline, much less urgent pressing etc). I then did the same as the website, and bumped up all my pressing instructions, and then started winning most games, even though our team doesn’t suit being on the ball at all, and has no sweeper keeper or fast defenders. I would be very interested if somebody would post an in depth tactical thread about being defensive in FM20, and play a season with some analysis. I know that there was a very good defensive thread recently, but it was with a low reputation team, and IIRC, he still wasn’t winning lots of games. I’d like to see a Mourinho/Simeone style of defence, that can win trophies for big teams and dark horses with consistency.
  5. oh yeah of course, forgot about that. How about team instructions? Or is the only way to judge that by watching how they play?
  6. Is there a way to find out exactly what mentality + roles + instructions the AI uses when the player can't break them down and loses 1-0, 2-1 etc when only conceding a couple of chances? I think that this could be interesting to see what the game views as defensive. I know that there are some skins that show which roles are being used.. maybe there's a way to go one step further.
  7. I made this thread after struggling massively with the AMC role. However, I’ve since downloaded the FM20 demo (I was previously on 19) and the first save I’ve done, my AMC became the star player. I was managing Man Utd and Bruno Fernandes was the AMC in a 4231. Before a fairly significant injury, he had the most player of the match awards in the prem, as well as 7 goals + 4 assists in 14 games. I definitely think he could’ve gotten more assists, but I was doing a youth save, where I was giving lots of game time to some lower ability players (Greenwood, Gomes, James), so there was some dodging finishing involved. i took some advice from some of the earlier posts in the thread, mostly @dekzeh and @Ö-zil to the Arsenal!. the system was basically based on giving the CAM as much room as possible. This meant having an AFa instead of a role that drops deep, and 2 CM’s on defend duty. I also added the team instruction to play wider, so that my wingers would stretch the defence more, and not get in the way of my CAM. The other idea was to give my CAM forward options to aim for, these came in the form of the AFa and an IFa who would consistently try to make runs in behind the defence. This is what we lined up as: AFa IFa AMs IWs CMd. BWMd WBs. BPD. BPD. WBs I reckon the instructions also helped Bruno to perform. They were: regroup + GK distribute quickly + higher tempo + be more expressive + play wider + counter If your pressing teams high and dominating the ball, then the opposition will naturally be pinned back and defend deep and narrow, killing any space in the number 10 ‘zone’. Defending passively allows the other team to play, coming out of there defensive shell more, whereas playing quickly and playing on the counter means we look to exploit that space they leave before it closes again. Sadly my demo ran out, and Bruno has been injured for a fair amount of the season, so I couldn’t fairly compare his creative stats like key passes etc. But due to our young front line, I’m sure that Bruno’s expected assists would’ve been higher that his actual assists
  8. I find this quite interesting. I’ve only played fm20 briefly on the demo, but In fm19 and what I’ve seen so far in 20 is that I’m quite the opposite. I realised that all of my best teams never utilised counterpressing or higher lines etc. for me at times, I was considering that the engine was a little rigged against keeping the ball and winning it back quickly. but I reckon it’s more to do with which attributes people look out for most in players. Maybe you’d look out for crossing and off the ball for a wingback whereas I’d consider there positioning + tackling more. Also for strikers, I wonder if your ideal player would be maybe like a firmino, for his workrste and linkup play, whereas I’d be more likely to sign A rashford type forward, who’s got the pace and dribbling to run at defenders whove been caught over committing .. I was also thinking about the teams that I managed long term in fm19, and a lot of them suited counter attacking more than counter pressing. For example, the team that I spent the longest with was Southampton, who have Obafemi currently breaking through. He’s basically a striker that’s pretty bad at everything apart from being absolutely rapid, powerful and a good finisher - not the player that you want to be creating chances and making good movements to break down a team that’s been pinned in there own half, but no one can counter against a high line like he can. The only save that I played a Gegenpressing ‘style’ (still not the preset) was with Leipzig - who play this way in real life to great success.
  9. Personally, I rarely use them if ever. honestly, I’m a little shocked at how often the styles seems to work for other people considering how many and how extreme some of the instructions are. This overkill of instructions would suggest to me that each style only works for some very niche teams. i use clean slate >99% of the time with only a 3-4 instructions max in each instruction sub section. every so often, I go on a bad run of form and sometimes have a go with the presets when I’m out of ideas, and I wouldn’t say that they made my team better at all. So I don’t think that it should be recommended that choosing a style is the best way to go. Maybe if your squad as a clear DNA that matches a style then it would be worth choosing one, but even still I would tone down a lot of the automatic instructions that the style gives you
  10. Pre-Season We had a pretty turbulent start to the save. I tend to holiday through the first few games against low reputation teams, as to me these games are only for match fitness and don't give a good inidcation of whether your tactical and squad plans are viable. Somehow we got outplayed by both Blackburn and Kransdor with out first team! However, the game that I want to draw your attention to was against AC Milan. We pretty much played the future XI that was posted above, barring Bruno Fernandes. And, during the first half before both teams made lots of substitutions, we put Milan's first team to the sword. We scored 2 goals but that didn't do the game justice, we should've gotten a lot more. With a man of the match performance from Gomes, and plenty of key passes from our ball playing defender Tuanzebe, the future looks very bright indeed.
  11. Yes mate, I’m keeping pereira around to be a backup for Fernandes I also think that Greenwood will make a good CFa. Sadly his circle is empty in that role currently, so he is now only training as a CF. i think that would work best, as he’s still looking to score goals himself, but should roam around and leave the centre forward position from time to time and allow Rashford to move into that space
  12. The Players and System The best of our young players so far Can either play through the centre as an AFa or on the left wing as an IFa I want to use him on the wing, seeing as he has relatively poor composure so I don't want him to be our player closest to goal It looks as though this guy has the highest ceiling out of the lot Can also play on the wing, but as a clinical finisher, I will play him as our forward Excellent flair and good acceleration + passing + vision I see him playing as a creative inverted winger, as he may get bullied in the centre with his low balance and strength A composed holding player Can recycle possession and link the defence to the midfield A well rounded left back Looks to have potential to be world class Excellent pace to be a covering defender in a high line system Has poor jumping reach, so must be partnered with a dominat ariel defender (Likely Maguire) Has decent passing and 'likes to bring the ball out of defence' this compliments our small attackers, who won't want an uncomposed defender making forced clearences, as they will struggle to compete for long balls against centre backs. Our midfield enforcer His star rating isn't great for a 22 yr old, but I always like these sort of players, so he will have a role in my team Can compliment Bruno's attacking ability and Garner's composure + anticipation by being a tough tackler and giving the midifeld some steel His technical weaknesses should be minimized by his colleagues in midfield Honestly doesn't look that great, but his good form in real life with Sheffield Utd has given me the determination to try and fit him in As a sweeper keeper with better passing than De Gea, he should compliment our fast attackers well by starting counter attacks from the back First Season XI Ideal First XI Within 2 seasons max Tactical thinking below.. The next update will be in January. We will look more into the youth player's development over results first, as this the first XI for season 1 only has the academy players in rotation positions. I will reguarly rotate the youngsters in and out of the side so that they get adequate games time, but at the same time, don't get thrown in to the deep end.
  13. I've never ventured to this side of the forums before, but I'm hoping that I can still post a little about the tactics as well as my player development + results, as I believe half the fun in these sort of saves is spent in trying to create a system to fit your limited players. It will also make up for my lack of any transfer updates . Mods, please let me know if this isn't OK!
  14. Before I begin, let me know if anyone has tried this before, as I've searched online and couldn't find anything like this. The Save After an extremely dissapointing post Fergie period for Manchester United, it almost seems fitting that the oppertunity to break away from mediocricy and return to challenging at the top could fall to a talented group of youngsters who have come through the academy in recent years. These players certainly have the potential to be the sequel to the famous class of '92. The goal of this save is to build a team to achieve consistent success, with the spine being built around a current group of academy players. The players listed below should be regular first teamers from the moment they become premier league quality - to the season that they begin to decline. Aside from this, every other position is fair game to sign any player for. The Players Marcus Rashford Mason Greenwood Angel Gomes Brandon Williams James Garner Scott McTominay Axel Tuanzebe Dean Henderson Tahith Chong* Paul Pogba* Jesse Lingard* Starred players are optional - due to them either spending the majority of there development elsewhere and not (in my eyes) being 'true' academy players. Or due to there being better academy options who play the same position. What makes this save even more exciting is, not only do we have other young players who will hit there peak at similar times (Daniel James, Wan Bissaka) - but we also have a duo of strong leaders within the team, who's positions don't clash with any of the youngsters. These players (Bruno Fernandes and Harry Maguire) can bring much needed experience and mentoring to this group. The follow up post will go into a little bit more detail about each player, as well as my intended tactical setup, which will be built in order to get the best out of each player. I will have to orient myself very much toward fitting "the system to the players" due to our limited options.
  15. Thanks for the feedback mate, I changed Greenwood to a DLFa and we've looked better. He still scores goals and tries to get on the end of through balls (much more so than an f9 or DLFs), but at the same time he creates space for Rashford to use a bit more. Playing him in a deeper role also gives him more time on the ball to use his dribbling and flair. Gomes hasn't been playing as well as Greenwood/ Rashford for me so far, but I am in the first season, and he doesn't start off as good as Greenwood. So maybe it's just a case of waiting for him to develop a bit more. Also, I like your instructions. Before starting the save, I tried to look up online for people who have tried developing the Utd youth players, and a lot of them wanted to to play out of defence + work ball into box + shorter passing. But I definately think the best way to get the best out of Rashford and Greenwood is to play quick and pass into space to try and use their quickness more.
  16. I’m really interested in starting a United academy save, building around a front 3 of Rashford, Greenwood and Gomes. theres also Garner, Tuanzebe, Williams and Mctominay. And Pogba, to an extent. however, I want to build around the attack, as the rest of the players are pretty versatile and can fill in where they’re needed. as some of the guys are still young, I’ve been playing Martial in Place of Greenwood, and Mata/James in place of Gomes. What do you guys think is an optimum tactic to get the front 3 firing? ive been playing pretty inconsistently, but I’m using Rashford on the left, Greenwood in the centre and Gomes on the right like this: IFa——-AFa——-IWs I’m not quite sure if this is tactically viable though, as maybe the inside forward clashes a bit with the advanced forward.. maybe it’s important to play Greenwood as a supporting striker? Or DLFa? I’m reluctant to, as his strength and passing for hold up play will never be his best attributes. but maybe it’s the only way to play them all together in terms of instructions, I’m playing a high risk style, high press + risky passing (higher tempo, pass into space, hit early crosses) to try and put our pacey forwards through on goal with out having to slowly work the ball into the box. has anyone else managed to successfully develop United’s academy players, and get them playing well together in the same team? Also, if someone can recommend a system to try and get the best out of as many of these players as possible that’d be great.
  17. @davidbarros2 excellent post mate. You had interesting thinking behind chooisng a DLFs to link up with your CAM, I would've chosen a more attacking role, to give the CAM an option for a through ball. One thing I always think about when building a side around a certain position is 'how much do I want the ball?'. On the one hand, you would want your technical CAM to have lots of touches on the ball and not have to be wasted defending, suggesting playing a possession based style. Whereas on the other hand, you would want to have as much a space as possible for your CAM to play through balls to Halaand, suggesting a counter attacking style with little possesion. How did you decide on your instrunctions? So did you ever think about playing out of defence, in order to get the ball to your CAM's feet more instead of clearing to him? Or shorter passing in order to keep the ball more and give your CAM more touches on the ball? Or maybe you thought about 'pass into space' + 'more direct'? to encourage more risks and potentially get your CAM more key passes, and also allowing you to move the ball further in shorter time to catch the defence off guard?
  18. I've realised that Man Utd have a really exciting generation coming through, with several players having potential to break into the first team. I want to discuss with people on these forums about how to get the best out of these guys, and hopefully, somebody has tried the same thing before so can give first hand advice. I know that the best way to go about this would be to just jump in myself. But my laptop is pretty slow, and i'd feel like i'd have wasted my time if I get 2-3 seasons in and find that my ideas were'nt really viable. BTW, I'm currently playing FM19, but I believe that all these players have kept on the same development trajectory. Here are the players that I want to build the team around: Angel Gomes I see him playing in a kind of 'messi' role, where the team has to carry him defensively, but we can look to him with his flair + passing + dribbling to provide the bit of magic. He will be the main attacking creator of the team Even though his natural position is at CAM, I'm reluctant to play him in the central crowded area due to his abysmal strength + balance which is never going to rise to a good enough level. I'm thinking maybe a Trequartista on the right attacking side, as he has sufficent 'speed' attributes to play on the wing. Rashford I think his combination of Pace + dribbling can make him very effective as a left attacking inside forward Mason Greenwood With his finishing + composure, he can be a really clinical striker. I will likely play him as an AFa, due to his dribbling + technique + flair making him more than just a poacher. Even though he will massivley improve due to only being 16, I'm reluctant to play him as a support duty as his passing and vision and teamwork will never be as good as his ability to get in behind the defence and finish James Garner I see him playing the 'Carrick' role. He is a very good passer and can anticipate very well as well as position himself in the right place. He can be a both an anchor, and someone to help calmly progress the ball I think he could work very well paired with a 'Naingolan' sort of player, who can provide the aggression and tackling, while Garner holds position and covers There's also a few others who look to be good players, such as Chong and Dalot, but these 4 are the ones that I want to build the team around. One idea I had to accomodate the front 3 as well as a DM was the 4123 below. I think the roles in this formation suit the players really well, but I'm not sure how well they link together. I know that a lone striker as an attack duty is always a worry in case he gets islolated, but maybe the trequartista would move narrow enough to provide good support? I'm not sure as I've never used it before. Another problem with this would be having 3 attack duties in the forward line that will probably not track back enough, putting a lot of pressure on the midfield 3. Another issue may be Greenwood and Rashford getting in each other's way... With the third CM, I’m thinking of using a MEZs, as this could also provide a link to greenwood and help reduce the isolation. The other option to use that wouldn't have to involve retraining positions would be the diamond. In this case I see Rashford playing an 'Henry' role, with the instruction to stay wider. Where he moves wide to pick up the ball before dribbling back to the centre. I think that it's pretty essential in this formation for Gomes to be a trequartista, as I said earlier that I can't see him performing well in the hole without roaming due to his poor strength and balance. IMO he needs to pick up the ball away from traffic, on the wing, or deep in midfield to be effective These are the 2 ideas I have so far, feel free to critique. In terms of instrunctions, again I'm not too sure. I would like to play out of defence, as I think that Garner would be very good at this. I also wouldn't like the keeper hitting long balls as our forwards aren't the best in the air. I think that 'pass into space' could be good as that can give Greenwood and Rashford the chance to use there pace to run onto through balls. I'm not sure about pressing either, I don't think that we want to press really intensely, as Gomes doesn't have the workrate for it - maybe a midblock would be best, as it would also give us better opertunities to use our pace on the counter. How would you guys get these players playing well together? Another team I'm interested in doing a youth development save would be Chelsea, but I won't write about that here as I think I have some solid ideas for a Chelsea save. But again, if anyone as tried the same thing before, with Utd or chelsea then I would like to hear how you've done it.
  19. Here's an article about recreating Mourinho's Inter in FM19. It's interesting that he uses a CMa in the 4231, which seems to go against the general advice. He finishes second, but doesn't pose his player stats so we can't be too sure how well it played for the CAM
  20. Another common thing I have noticed when people use AMC tactics are the use of one striker dropping deep in a 4312 or diamond. Surely it would be best to have 2 attack duty strikers? This would mean that you have more runners for through balls and less crowding of the AMC area. Does anyone have any thoughts on this?
  21. That looks really good mate. I've noticed that you have used a conservative midfield 2, which seems to be the way to go when using a creative AMC. I also feel like it seems important to use an attacking striker. But what about your wide players? And what is the thinking behind the wide players? I worry about using inside forwards and inverted wingers due to them taking up the AMC's space. And what is the thinking behind the TI's? Do you think that AMC's play best in more possession based lower tempo sides like yours is? I feel like work ball into the box helps with trying to work a through ball oppertunity, but I'm not sure what else I'd use if I were to build a tactic for the AMC. Also, which version of FM are you using? I'm using 19 and I wonder if the natural frequency of through balls occur any more or less depending on the version you use.
  22. I just found this thread about an enganche in a 4231 that was used to massive success. I think the tactic that this guy made is pretty much the style that I'd like to create. It uses an enganche as a creative hub and it has a goalscoring striker with more creative wingers. Although I'm not a massive fan of the excessive possession instructions. What do you guys think of it? I don't actually have FM20, so I'd quite like to see someone here try out something similar and see if it can function the same way in the new ME.
  23. Do you mind posting the tactic, with profiles of the key players, and then talk about your thinking behind the decisions made? In terms of both the roles and instructions? Even if it's just about what you have done that made the AMC play well.
  24. Nope, just look at teams like Inter and Real Madrid under Mourinho, and then France at the WC 2018. All were trophy winning teams known for putting defence first. The thread I linked to earlier talks about I save I made trying to recreate Marcleino at Valencia, who finished 4th and won the Copa del Rey playing counter attacking football. Although It is important as a bigger club to have alternaitve ways of scoring goals for when the opposition don't want to control the game either.
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