Football Manager 2020 Feedback Thread

[craiigman]

I'm off work today, was ready to start a big save and dig in. Very disappointed to see there is a game braking bug with the attributes. When I hear Miles speak about him not wanting to release the beta until he is happy with the game, but then the full game releases with a bug of this scale, makes me question a lot of things.

The beta probably does help fix a lot of small bugs, which is why I guess it's still a thing. But last year and this year the community has picked up on some big issues, and nothing is done about it. I only bought the game yesterday and managed one friendly during the beta. Scored 2 identical goals, 1on1 keeper saved it, but scored the rebound. Noticed the shooting into side netting as well. From the posts these things seem to be well documented and not changed.

I'm starting to think that the more complicated the game becomes, the more difficult this is for a small studio to implement. I'm not one to stick up for developers if they charge the same price as a AAA title, but I think there needs to be more development time between games. As at the moment the ME just doesn't represent what a real game of football would look like (the stats at the end of the season might be close), and really that's what FM's whole point is.

Seems that the state of football games in general at the moment is not where is should be.

 

edit: I will throw and edit in. The turn around time for this bug to be fixed was incredible, excellent work!

Edited November 20, 2019 by craiigman

[Dennis_Ajax]

Why is everyone so negative about the ME??? It is so much better than last year, crosses are not OP any more, different ways to score. Yeah, it is not perfect but it is better than last year and has room for improvement what makes it even better.

[luka_zg]

9 minutes ago, Dennis_Ajax said:

People should be aware of this attribute bug. It is gamebreaking and game shouldn't be released before it was fixed. 

 

I hope they understand this and can come up with a fix today.

I'm playing my save from the 1st day of beta release and I have no idea what bug you are talking about. So to say it's gamebreaking is a bit of an overstatement.

[Boss]

1 minute ago, luka_ said:

I'm playing my save from the 1st day of beta release and I have no idea what bug you are talking about. So to say it's gamebreaking is a bit of an overstatement.

It wasn't an issue in the early builds of the Beta - it only became an issue after 20.1

[Dennis_Ajax]

Just now, luka_ said:

I'm playing my save from the 1st day of beta release and I have no idea what bug you are talking about. So to say it's gamebreaking is a bit of an overstatement.

That you are not aware does not make this an overstatement. When most of the talents have important fixed att. at 1-3, the game in the long run will be broken. Imagine all of your talents don't develop like they should. I think no FM player would enjoy this. People are waiting to start games because of this. So yes, you can call this gamebreaking.  

[luka_zg]

Just now, Boss said:

It wasn't an issue in the early builds of the Beta - it only became an issue after 20.1

Ok, but what is it? The bug I mean?

[luka_zg]

1 minute ago, Dennis_Ajax said:

That you are not aware does not make this an overstatement. When most of the talents have important fixed att. at 1-3, the game in the long run will be broken. Imagine all of your talents don't develop like they should. I think no FM player would enjoy this. People are waiting to start games because of this. So yes, you can call this gamebreaking.  

But my talents are improving very well..I don't see anything wrong with them. Greenwood, Mejbri, Garner, James..all of them are imrpoving rapidly in a good way.

[andu1]

Si always provide fixes for critical bugs quickly so I am sure they will provide a hotfix this week...

[Vali184]

7 minutes ago, luka_ said:

Ok, but what is it? The bug I mean?

if you start a new save, most young players will have determination 1. isn't it gamebreaking?

[RandomGuy.]

9 minutes ago, luka_ said:

But my talents are improving very well..I don't see anything wrong with them. Greenwood, Mejbri, Garner, James..all of them are imrpoving rapidly in a good way.

At Man U.

Any player with randomly generated Determination, Important Matches and Consistency is getting that defaulted to 1.

Take charge of a Scottish League Two side and say how you go...

[evilpimp972]

il y a 1 minute, RandomGuy. a dit :

At Man U.

Any player with randomly generated Determination, Important Matches and Consistency is getting that defaulted to 1.

Take charge of a Scottish League Two side and say how you go...

He didn't start a new save so he's not affected, everything was fine 1st day of the beta.

[roykela]

6 minutes ago, Vali184 said:

if you start a new save, most young players will have determination 1. isn't it gamebreaking?

For me it would be a no. As youngsters in other teams would suffer from the same issue. Not just my team.
That's when i adapt and use what i have at my disposal, given to me by the game.
Trying to use it to my advantage; which, essentially, is what being a football manager is all about.

[pats]

3 minutes ago, roykela said:

For me it would be a no. As youngsters in other teams would suffer from the same issue. Not just my team.
That's when i adapt and use what i have at my disposal, given to me by the game.
Trying to use it to my advantage; which, essentially, is what being a football manager is all about.

Consistency, important matches, bravery, workrate all set to 1 in some cases.

Ref attributes broken too resulting in unrealistically high amount of penalties and cards. 

This isn't what a football manager game is all about.

Edited November 19, 2019 by pats

[rooneyviet]

2 minutes ago, roykela said:

For me it would be a no. As youngsters in other teams would suffer from the same issue. Not just my team.
That's when i adapt and use what i have at my disposal, given to me by the game.
Trying to use it to my advantage; which, essentially, is what being a football manager is all about.

so what is the point of developing young players when players have no determination and dont want to develop?

[RandomGuy.]

4 minutes ago, roykela said:

For me it would be a no. As youngsters in other teams would suffer from the same issue. Not just my team.
That's when i adapt and use what i have at my disposal, given to me by the game.
Trying to use it to my advantage; which, essentially, is what being a football manager is all about.

Nah, it's also affected refs, in Scotland certainly, so even if you're playing well you can just randomly get a penalty against you.

I'm a lower half side, spent ages working on tactics and the squad pre-season, then go into the league and concede 6 penalties in 5 games, all "harsh" with the animation showing my player winning the ball. Why should I be happy to just accept that as a "hurdle"? It takes all realism out it for me.

[roykela]

1 minute ago, pats said:

Consistency, important matches, bravery, workrate all set to 1 in some cases.

Ref attributes broken too resulting in unrealistically high amount of penalties and cards. 

This isn't what a football manager game is all about.

 

1 minute ago, rooneyviet said:

so what is the point of developing young players when players have no determination and dont want to develop?

Apparently you didn't understand what i meant.
It's in the 2 first words. 'For me'. It's my take on it and how i play my game.

[roykela]

Just now, RandomGuy. said:

Nah, it's also affected refs, in Scotland certainly, so even if you're playing well you can just randomly get a penalty against you.

I'm a lower half side, spent ages working on tactics and the squad pre-season, then go into the league and concede 6 penalties in 5 games, all "harsh" with the animation showing my player winning the ball. Why should I be happy to just accept that as a "hurdle"? It takes all realism out it for me.

I'm also a lower side. If it affects refs then it affects other teams as well.
It's like being a player in the 5th division again
Who said you had to be happy with it? I was stating how i deal with it.

[Trucce]

I can't relate to the penalties issues you're describing here.

I've played 12 games in Serie A, 4 games in Europa League and some friendly's and so far and there's been a total of 2 penalties.  

Edited November 19, 2019 by Trucce

[Dagenham_Dave]

3 minutes ago, rooneyviet said:

so what is the point of developing young players when players have no determination and dont want to develop?

It's only the young, newly generated players who start the game, is it not? All newgens from the first intake onwards are unaffected. Longer term, it'll become less of an issue until it becomes no issue at all. That's my understanding of it. I'm still on my first beta save, which is unaffected, so not 100% sure if this is correct

 

[pats]

2 minutes ago, Trucce said:

I can't relate to the penalties issues you're describing here.

I've played 12 games in Serie A and 4 games in Europa League so far and there's been a total of 2 penalties.  

Not everyone will get affected by this. The refs who already have researched data pre-existing are not affected (just like the players). Only the refs who have randomly generated attributes are affected.

[pats]

3 minutes ago, Dagenham_Dave said:

It's only the young, newly generated players who start the game, is it not? All newgens from the first intake onwards are unaffected. Longer term, it'll become less of an issue until it becomes no issue at all. That's my understanding of it. I'm still on my first beta save, which is unaffected, so not 100% sure if this is correct

 

No. The players regardless of age are affected. 

 

[matt46]

So I got fm20 on Nov 1st. Does that mean my save won't have the this attribute bug? 

[evilpimp972]

il y a 5 minutes, Dagenham_Dave a dit :

It's only the young, newly generated players who start the game, is it not? All newgens from the first intake onwards are unaffected. Longer term, it'll become less of an issue until it becomes no issue at all. That's my understanding of it. I'm still on my first beta save, which is unaffected, so not 100% sure if this is correct

 

Longer term you'll have a wasted generation of players lol

It really kills the game

[themadsheep2001]

Regardless of who feels affected/not affected by this, SI are aiming to fix it as soon as possible. Which is the stance that matters most at this time

[pats]

Just now, matt46 said:

So I got fm20 on Nov 1st. Does that mean my save won't have the this attribute bug? 

It was only introduced after pre-release beta minor update 20.1.0 which was on 13th November so your save should be unaffected by this bug.

[Fabio MVP]

I know it's mobile version related, but can anyone please tell me what does "Extended Squad Movement" options means?

I can only tick or untick it before the start of a new save game. So, i would like to know what does it do before I start my save game.

[Harrymcintyre]

The way I managed to get past this bug was play like 8 months in game and hey ho, a bunch of determined youngsters at my mercy! 👍😃

[Soviet]

What I find interesting is how this attribute bug impacts refs, which in turns impacts the number of penalties, which in turn impacts people thoughts about match engine... Only shows how complex the game has become and how hard it is to fix anything

[HUNT3R]

2 minutes ago, Fabio MVP said:

I know it's mobile version related, but can anyone please tell me what does "Extended Squad Movement" options means?

I can only tick or untick it before the start of a new save game. So, i would like to know what does it do before I start my save game.

If it's for FMM, please ask in the FMM section.  

[Fabio MVP]

7 minutes ago, HUNT3R said:

If it's for FMM, please ask in the FMM section.  

Well I know and I did, but nobody replies and I really want to start my save game ASAP!

P. S. it's not explained in manual.

Edited November 19, 2019 by Fabio MVP

[fm2020.smith]

all those complaining about the determination stats and other stats. if your determination is low then mentor the players with high determination for now to get the increase you need they will soon shoot up. (remember to mentor with a good personality as well )  i dont see any real bugs at the mo, other than the shoot from the side line which is still there kinda but it seems connected with maybe intelligence or decision making as they dont all do it. 

the me is a deffo plus from the beta, maybe a little too easy as the opposition are playing defensive all the time resulting in them having virtually no shots on goal at all.

[Novem9]

If Determenation '0' chooses from 1-20 only 1 will it be an effect to set random value from '1-20' for '7-15' for example? Will it change from '1' to '7'? Just for temporary solution at least. 

Btw I always considered 1-20 for empty values too much random 

Edited November 19, 2019 by Novem9

[dannysheard]

6 hours ago, robinthebest said:

this year is really terrible, my winger still shoots into the side net

Ditto. And usually with their weaker foot if they're inside forwards, which looks even worse.

[Maccabist]

3 hours ago, turgi said:

I know many people mentioned it but I gotta say the attributes bug is a game killer for me.

איזה באג של ציונים? לא ראיתי משהו כזה  

[diLLa88]

6 minutes ago, fm2020.smith said:

all those complaining about the determination stats and other stats. if your determination is low then mentor the players with high determination for now to get the increase you need they will soon shoot up. (remember to mentor with a good personality as well )  i dont see any real bugs at the mo, other than the shoot from the side line which is still there kinda but it seems connected with maybe intelligence or decision making as they dont all do it. 

the me is a deffo plus from the beta, maybe a little too easy as the opposition are playing defensive all the time resulting in them having virtually no shots on goal at all.

It's not just determination. It's all hidden stats as well, which are often set to random.

It also affects referees, so you get bad refs giving pens and cards for nothing.

The problem is much bigger than you are suggesting.

Edited November 19, 2019 by diLLa88

[91836]

Just don't understand how there can be so little goal variety again. It seems like the only ways of scoring are from mistakes, set pieces, long shots, balls over the top and crosses, just like FM19. Central play is practically non existent. Would honestly quite like a refund cause this is clearly not going to be fixed 

[RandomGuy.]

29 minutes ago, Dagenham_Dave said:

It's only the young, newly generated players who start the game, is it not? All newgens from the first intake onwards are unaffected. Longer term, it'll become less of an issue until it becomes no issue at all. That's my understanding of it. I'm still on my first beta save, which is unaffected, so not 100% sure if this is correct

 

I'm sure someones said Phil Foden is affected also.

[smb_punt]

3 hours ago, HUNT3R said:

This has been acknowledged by SI.

Where was it acknowledge pls ?

[Soviet]

4 minutes ago, Maccabist said:

איזה באג של ציונים? לא ראיתי משהו כזה  

https://community.sigames.com/topic/501921-specific-unset-attributes-are-set-to-1

[themadsheep2001]

3 minutes ago, 91836 said:

Just don't understand how there can be so little goal variety again. It seems like the only ways of scoring are from mistakes, set pieces, long shots, balls over the top and crosses, just like FM19. Central play is practically non existent. Would honestly quite like a refund cause this is clearly not going to be fixed 

You'd have to speak to your retailer 

[dannysheard]

2 hours ago, craiigman said:

I'm off work today, was ready to start a big save and dig in. Very disappointed to see there is a game braking bug with the attributes. When I hear Miles speak about him not wanting to release the beta until he is happy with the game, but then the full game releases with a bug of this scale, makes me question a lot of things.

The beta probably does help fix a lot of small bugs, which is why I guess it's still a thing. But last year and this year the community has picked up on some big issues, and nothing is done about it. I only bought the game yesterday and managed one friendly during the beta. Scored 2 identical goals, 1on1 keeper saved it, but scored the rebound. Noticed the shooting into side netting as well. From the posts these things seem to be well documented and not changed.

I'm starting to think that the more complicated the game becomes, the more difficult this is for a small studio to implement. I'm not one to stick up for developers if they charge the same price as a AAA title, but I think there needs to be more development time between games. As at the moment the ME just doesn't represent what a real game of football would look like (the stats at the end of the season might be close), and really that's what FM's whole point is.

Seems that the state of football games in general at the moment is not where is should be.

Agreed. Playing as Liverpool, I've won my first 17 games, but given up because I saw something about the determination bug, but also because the football is horrible.

When I see Mane or Salah go through one-on-one, I die a little inside because I know what's coming.

Trent has more goals from open play as those two combined.

Edited November 19, 2019 by dannysheard

[OldDirtyBingoCaller]

5 minutes ago, smb_punt said:

Where was it acknowledge pls ?

I really would also appreciate an official statement from SI /FM / Miles on this matter before many others not informed of this, start their long term saves

[fm2020.smith]

 

[Novem9]

19 минут назад, DoubleDenimSuccess сказал:

IMO that is the whole top & bottom of nowadays releases of this game. The game has become too big for SI IMO, the game has become too complex as gamers crave every last detail as per real life. It seems it is just all too much for this relatively small team to produce such an in-depth game as this. Each bug it would seem has many more knock on's in other areas which they seem incapable of fixing.

I tend to blame (without information of structures etc) the project's duration. When any studio create new game - it's a new game. Paradox will release new Bloodlines and this is no based on game from 2004 year. I'm not sure about FM and don't want to speculate but if this the same structure for 10+ years with some changes every few months... In one day mayor realised that it's simpler to destroy old building than repair this again. But FM is unique product with unique AI (damn even Paradox's Stellaris AI has a lot of management troubles in more simple situations) so they just can't to start from clear list. FM is so unique content that possibly its need a few neural networks with difference tasks for few cases who knows 

Edited November 19, 2019 by Novem9

[eye-switcher]

I am alittle dissappointed , i lknow everyone has busted there ASS to get this game out, but i find strange that some of the obvious flaws of the ME makes it into the final game as shooting from impossible angles, penalties en masse, world class players dont pass the ball to wide open teammates. I mean these are issues that are obvious after a couple of games and yet still here we are. strange, but maybe not so strange if you read the the beta thread in the beginning hailing the ME as the best ever

[roykela]

11 minutes ago, smb_punt said:

Where was it acknowledge pls ?

 

4 minutes ago, OldDirtyBingoCaller said:

I really would also appreciate an official statement from SI /FM / Miles on this matter before many others not informed of this, start their long term saves

 

[OldDirtyBingoCaller]

1 minute ago, roykela said:

 

And this is debunked directly afterwards by the next poster, that it in fact IS affecting newgens.

The only place where they have said there might be an issue is in the forums - many people only find info on e.g twitter, as where they have been dead silent

 

[themadsheep2001]

2 minutes ago, OldDirtyBingoCaller said:

 

There's a post in this very thread that they are looking to roll out a fix. 

[roykela]

11 minutes ago, OldDirtyBingoCaller said:

 

It was asked about acknowledgement and official statement. I tried to help out showing where. That's all.
The next poster doesn't say anything about it affecting newgens.
He said "not only young players but also others". Something that SI also state they know.
 

Edited November 19, 2019 by roykela

[rdbayly]

Personally, my first impressions of the release ME aren't great. From watching AI v AI games, I'm seeing less variety in goals and central play is sadly dead on arrival. The 1 v 1 conversion issue isn't so prevalent, because their occurrence has been nerfed to the point where I've hardly seen any. Long shot wonder goals are back in fashion, and crossing opportunities are routinely ignored in favour of a pass inside.

This has the effect of compressing the play to the size of a sardine can, and strikers are frequently anonymous due to their static movement. I thought I'd launched FM19 at first. Does anyone have any evidence to the contrary? I'm hoping the experience of others differs to mine. What continues to plague the match day experience is wide players running the length of the pitch (often by strolling past non-existent tackles), only to scuff or slice an attempt into the outer side netting.