Football Manager 2016 16.3.0 Feedback Thread

[Time_Consumer]

I know, it has been stated a lot, but: the wing play drives me crazy. It's not that crosses are overpowered per se, it's just that as soon as you deploy an attacking fullback or winger (s or a), too many of the attacks will end in crosses from the byline, regardless the tactical setup. It just seems as if a pass to the flanks is always the easiest option, so all central players choose to go that route instead of playing through balls in the middle, no matter the instructions.

I get a lot of tactics working as in "getting results", but it's rally hard to create the football i want to see (supporting fullbacks, just some overlaps, not many crosses but cutbacks to advanced central players).

[Valkyrie88]

I know, it has been stated a lot, but: the wing play drives me crazy. It's not that crosses are overpowered per se, it's just that as soon as you deploy an attacking fullback or winger (s or a), too many of the attacks will end in crosses from the byline, regardless the tactical setup. It just seems as if a pass to the flanks is always the easiest option, so all central players choose to go that route instead of playing through balls in the middle, no matter the instructions.

I get a lot of tactics working as in "getting results", but it's rally hard to create the football i want to see (supporting fullbacks, just some overlaps, not many crosses but cutbacks to advanced central players).

This was exactly my point and the "smart" ones told me that "it's your tactics" and "there are ways to mitigate that". Obviously this is a big pile of bs, since the players look for wide play no matter the instructions. I tried 4-4-2 diamond narrow, 4-2-3-1, 4-3-3, 4-3-1-2 and 4-3-2-1 (Ancelotti Christmas Tree) with specific instructions "Play through the middle and More Risky passes for the AMC". I used FB - WB with support duty and specific instruction "Hold Position". Regardless, it didnt matter, my players always look for wide play, no killer balls through the middle. I just gave up after 300 hours. You get sick and tired watching the same things every match regardless of your tactics, especially something that you absolutly do not wanna see (pumped balls into the box). I reverted to FM15, since I find that ME to be way more balanced (even though you see a lot of long shots turned into goals in FM15). I am just hoping for an FM16 update (thats why I am still checking out this thread) because the game overall is very very good and it would be a shame to stay like this.

[jc1]

I know, it has been stated a lot, but: the wing play drives me crazy. It's not that crosses are overpowered per se, it's just that as soon as you deploy an attacking fullback or winger (s or a), too many of the attacks will end in crosses from the byline, regardless the tactical setup. It just seems as if a pass to the flanks is always the easiest option, so all central players choose to go that route instead of playing through balls in the middle, no matter the instructions.

I get a lot of tactics working as in "getting results", but it's rally hard to create the football i want to see (supporting fullbacks, just some overlaps, not many crosses but cutbacks to advanced central players).

If you play with an attacking fullback or winger, then surely you have to accept that crossing will be the obvious way for balls to get to your strikers.

I play with both fullbacks on a support duty and they very rarely cross the half way line, which is what I want as I play a 4-3-3 narrow with both left and right forwards playing wider to give the width and I've seen a dramatic change in the variety of goals in game.

[Cougar2010]

This was exactly my point and the "smart" ones told me that "it's your tactics" and "there are ways to mitigate that". Obviously this is a big pile of bs, since the players look for wide play no matter the instructions. I tried 4-4-2 diamond narrow, 4-2-3-1, 4-3-3, 4-3-1-2 and 4-3-2-1 (Ancelotti Christmas Tree) with specific instructions "Play through the middle and More Risky passes for the AMC". I used FB - WB with support duty and specific instruction "Hold Position". Regardless, it didnt matter, my players always look for wide play, no killer balls through the middle. I just gave up after 300 hours. You get sick and tired watching the same things every match regardless of your tactics, especially something that you absolutly do not wanna see (pumped balls into the box). I reverted to FM15, since I find that ME to be way more balanced (even though you see a lot of long shots turned into goals in FM15). I am just hoping for an FM16 update (thats why I am still checking out this thread) because the game overall is very very good and it would be a shame to stay like this.

If you are the bigger club opposition teams will play narrower against you and leave more space out wide.

In those situations its more difficult to play through the middle and tbh you would be stupid to try to as a RL manager wouldn't do that.

[MBarbaric]

If you play with an attacking fullback or winger, then surely you have to accept that crossing will be the obvious way for balls to get to your strikers.

not necessary. overlapping fullbacks serve to create numerical advantage over opposition in certain parts of the field or/and to widen and spread the defence creating broader spaces between defenders. in fm those overlapping fullbacks serve exclusively to cross.

however, in real and depending on managers instructions, it can also be used to cut the ball back into more central position or to lure the opposition to one side of the pitch and then change the point of attack quickly and go to other wing if the advantage is created in less deep position.

the way the wing play in general, and behaviour of fullbacks in particular, is done in fm, it is extremely simplistic and naive. just as closing down and defending in general is. since we have 3d view and since tactics are getting more and more space in media, this is getting more and more apparent. game has still a long way to go to achieve what it ultimately wants. it is on good path, though.

[Valkyrie88]

If you are the bigger club opposition teams will play narrower against you and leave more space out wide.

In those situations its more difficult to play through the middle and tbh you would be stupid to try to as a RL manager wouldn't do that.

1. Yes, if I am the bigger club then the opposition will defend narrower, but even if I have world class players, they dont even try to unlock the opposition through the middle. My players had try killer balls often, and yet I very rarely see that. I reverted to FM15 and it's just .... a dream. Same tactics, my team tries through balls, still cross when it's required (only when it's a good oportuity for the cross). Players in the center of the pitch constantly look for opportunities for killer balls to the stikers or for the IF or Wingers. These are plays that I missed so damn much since I played FM16.

2. I've set my team to play through the middle just to "check" with the ME. I did that just to prove that it's not my tactic that is responsable for the wide play.

[craiigman]

What happens when SI annoy so many people they actually do stop buying their game? I get it's a yearly release, and I get that in general they have a small team. But the reason "if we try to fix it, it'll cause more work" is not what I expect to see from a developer of a game I've already purchased, just for them to put it on hold for the next release.

"Replay-ability" and "so many hours of game play" is what you always get when you make a valid argument against the game. The reason you have both of those is because if you don't spend ages in the game, you'll just get ruined due to the complexity of the game, complex doesn't automatically = good. For me those things can no longer be used as an excuse for "not quite broken, but not quite working" games year after year.

Quality over quantity.

[kolly76]

Is this the final patch for FM16?

[Guest]

What happens when SI annoy so many people they actually do stop buying their game? I get it's a yearly release, and I get that in general they have a small team. But the reason "if we try to fix it, it's cause more work" is not what I expect to see from a developer of a game I've already purchased, just for them to put it on hold for the next release.

That's not what Neil said, if you're going to quote feedback from an SI employee at least have the decency to quote it correctly & in context.

[Guest]

Is this the final patch for FM16?

Unless any critical errors that prevent people from launching FM or continue without encountering crashes are identified & fixed then there are unlikely to be any further updates.

[craiigman]

That's not what Neil said, if you're going to quote feedback from an SI employee at least have the decency to quote it correctly & in context.

It wasn't Neil..

No changes in this regard. Sometimes it is just not possible to efficiently or safely adjust elements of the ME without knackering another aspect of the ME.

As already stated, the ME is extremely hard to balance, and adjusting this area safely and efficiently within the bounds of the current ME was not a viable option.

Wasn't viable to fix their match engine. That means it was either too much work, or their coding is being held together with duct tape. Neither is great.

[Guest]

Okay but it's not even what RTHerringbone said, as I assume you've not read Neil's feedback which is what my Mod colleague was most likely have been referencing here it is;

Okay, as you’re aware the staff here at SI read the forums so clearly we’re aware that some users are experiencing some issues with the way that crosses are defended. From the numbers we’ve had feeding back to us this only seems to affect a relatively small number players and largely depends on those player's tactics. Saying that, we did take a long, hard look at it and ultimately decided that given potential knock-ons and the major impact it would have had on user’s tactics that it wasn’t something we could tweak without unbalancing the match engine and worsening the user’s playing experience.

As anyone who’s played FM for a while knows, we’re constantly striving to make the match engine a 100 per cent perfect simulation of real football. While we’re still some way away from achieving this goal, we do feel that we’re getting closer and closer and this progress is helped enormously by the constructive feedback that we get here on the forums. We’re happy with the match engine which is included in version 16.3.0 and we’ve only been able to get up to this point thanks to everyone who has been involved in the game’s development, be it SI staff members, beta testers or those of you posting here on the forums.

Having spoken at length about this with the match team, there is some good news to report in that the work the team have done in trying to address this issue long-term has led to some other major improvements which, once they’re fully implemented, will make any future versions of the match engine better for everyone.

All I would add to that is that you should give the new update a thorough play-through and let us know what you think when you’ve had a chance to put it through its paces. That's what this thread is here for.

Many thanks.

[forameuss]

Wasn't viable to fix their match engine. That means it was either too much work, or their coding is being held together with duct tape. Neither is great.

Or, door number 3, where the complexity of the system means that adjusting one value causes changes elsewhere. Which is perfectly valid and understandable given the variables at play. It's never going to be "not viable" to fix the ME, but it's absolutely never viable to fix one issue and create another, which is clearly what happened. Doesn't really work with negative agendas, but them's the breaks.

[HUNT3R]

Things ive learnt since buying FM 2016 last week after the patch,,,, the crash dumps are ridiculous and annoying, FM 2015 and this one have been the worst ever for crash dumps

Also, never save the game and turn off whilst on a fantastic run, because that run will end when you load it back up

Report your crash dumps and SI can help you solve the issue. It's not like that for everyone. I haven't had a single crash dump on 16.2 or 16.3.

[Guest]

If you are getting continual crashes on both versions it does point to an issue with your system, head over to the technical issues section & have a read of the FAQ, if that does not help you identify & solve your issues then please start a report thread detailing when the crash events are happening & post your system info as detailed in the How to Report a Bug thread.

The tech guys will then be able to assist in getting you up & running.

[Jake_SAFC]

Don't think I've suffered a crash yet on this version.... counting myself lucky.

[Guest]

what would be wrong with my system ?? what do you mean ?

That is why you need to start a thread in the technical issues sections, the fact that I have run an all leagues save on FM15 that has reached 2030 without a single crash & an FM16 all league save to 2020 without any crashes suggests that FM is incredibly stable & this is backed up by many other users who are playing FM15 & 16 without any technical issues.

If you're running windows start a thread in here - http://community.sigames.com/forumdisplay.php/520-Crashes-Launch-and-Technical-Issues-on-PC

If you're running a Mac or Linix OS start a thread in here - http://community.sigames.com/forumdisplay.php/521-Crashes-Launch-and-Technical-Issues-on-Mac-or-Linux

In either case before starting a thread have a read of the following thread as it could well have the solution to your problem - http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/437015-Football-Manager-2016-Frequently-Asked-Questions-Pre-Release-Beta?p=10524542&viewfull=1#post10524542

[Mitja]

Two or three things that would be really nice if could be looked into for next ME. They also concern the FB/ crossing issue.

First one is willingness to do things. For example why are wingers or FBs or IFs so confident on dribbling compared to dribbling from central positions or much better example compared to players agression when closing down. Pressing could massivly be improved with simple fact that player with the ball should feel much more uncomfortable when being pressed. It should be much more obviou difference when quality and technical player is with ball to when your avarege full back is. Players are too good with the ball currently. There should be much more bad efforts, mispasses, poor decisions. There is too much attacking action. Defence needs improvement especially closing down. It's almost impssible (maybe without the right players) to put real pressure on defensive line. I think almost any proffesional player should be able to play pressing game better and more agressive than it is now. But I wouldn't forgot what I said earlier about players being too confident with ball/when being pressed.

About full back/crossing issue, defense is giving them too much space wingers are those who should be more awere of switching flanks and waiting for counter oprtunity. Also they are too good at dribbling and finding space for crosses. Just like wingers. Too many attempts in first place.

[GSevensM75]

How much of a challenge did you expect when starting with Spurs? irl they are challenging for the title so I would expect that to be the same in FM.

Noted that winning with Spurs isn't challenging. So then I played as Bournemouth. Won the league at a canter. Easier than I did with Spurs funnily enough. So then I thought I'd take a greater challenge and played as Aston Villa. It was tougher. I lost 6 games and only just pipped City to the title on the final day of the season. On the Bournemouth & Villa games I chose to disable first window transfers.

[scott MUFC]

why are Crystal Palace so poor in this?

and assistant advice, this is completely silly

[Dagenham_Dave]

why are Crystal Palace so poor in this?

The same Crystal Palace who, in real life, are the only Premier League team without a home win in 2016? Hmmm, let me think...

[Cougar2010]

and assistant advice, this is completely silly

Well I don't think its relevant when he plays as a ST but when he plays out wide your AM thinks its better for him to get the ball to feet and run at the defence given his explosive pace?

[Welshace]

Clearly Martial can play as a striker or wide forward of some sort.. why would stopping him getting into the box be completely silly for Whelan if he rates him as a winger or wide midfielder?

[scott MUFC]

because I play him as striker or IF all the time, nothing else, i want his pace surging into the box.

[Guest]

But if the coach would use him differently it doesn't make their opinion wrong, just inappropriate for your tactic.

Of course it could highlight a possible flaw in how the AI is approaching player development, if you get more of your coaches making the same suggestion can you take the time to raise this as a potential bug?

[faber83]

I repeat it once again: this new match engine makes the game TOOOOOOOOOOO EASY!!!

Playing with Foggia, on my first season in Serie A, I am winning or tying almost every match, playing "champagne football", also against bigger clubs... Moreover, I obtain too much (non realistic) money from my boss, so it gets too easy to sign semi-top players (Honda, Menèz, N. Castillo, F. Foster, Andrea Raggi, Omar Mascarell, Darlan, Fabio Martins, Kelvin, Bicakcic, etc...), while Foggia is known as a quite poor club...

This can be catchy for teenage newbies, but for expert "aged" fans of FM it is almost an insult!

[Preveza]

I repeat it once again: this new match engine makes the game TOOOOOOOOOOO EASY!!!

Playing with Foggia, on my first season in Serie A, I am winning or tying almost every match, playing "champagne football", also against bigger clubs... Moreover, I obtain too much (non realistic) money from my boss, so it gets too easy to sign semi-top players (Honda, Menèz, N. Castillo, F. Foster, Andrea Raggi, Omar Mascarell, Darlan, Fabio Martins, Kelvin, Bicakcic, etc...), while Foggia is known as a quite poor club...

This can be catchy for teenage newbies, but for expert "aged" fans of FM it is almost an insult!

Very productive post.

[Guest]

No less so that yours but thanks for pointing it out.

[Jesseh]

I think it would be very helpful if going on holiday and ticking use current match tactics the Assistant Mgr actually uses your tactics. A good way to test tactics is by testing a season long with instant results, but its a bit time consuming because we can't stay away from keyboard, pressing instant results on all matches.

A solution would be use holiday. Unfortunately holidaying the ass mgr change your tactics even if you check use current tactics.

If there is already an option to not use the tactics why the ass mgr still change them? Forcing ass mgr to use your tactics can only lead to good things for those who dont have the time or are testing tactics.

[Guest]

Setting aside from the fact that testing tactics without taking part in the match is a very bad idea the problem you describe is one that SI have on their list & as fix to ensure the assistant following the full tactical instructions from KO would probably be welcomed by many.

[Silver Twilight Sparkle]

Wow what happened over here?

[video=youtube;uYG0veMAAmY]

[Guest]

Looks like graphical glitch of the keeper spilling the catch onto a defender who is uanble to adjust to prevent the ball deflecting in for an OG, slowing down the replay & using the behind goal camera might help give a better idea.

[Silver Twilight Sparkle]

Looks like graphical glitch of the keeper spilling the catch onto a defender who is uanble to adjust to prevent the ball deflecting in for an OG, slowing down the replay & using the behind goal camera might help give a better idea.

Conradi should have tried to clear it, i reported as a bug.

[Cougar2010]

Conradi should have tried to clear it, i reported as a bug.

Looks like his clearance hit the back of the keeper.

[Maw74]

I wouldn't say it's a bug, it's just another example of how bad things can look in 3D though.

[Silver Twilight Sparkle]

Looks like his clearance hit the back of the keeper.

His clearance hit the other defender Traoré, who was credited with the own goal. But before going in the ball was on his feet but he didn't clear it like he was scared of it or something.

[wkdsoul]

The defender was running toward the goal as the keeper palmed it into him, as he turning to clear it it bobbles of him, onto the back of the keeper and past him. Prob just a lack of graphic showing a player running towards goal having to turn and loosing balance with a bobbling ball..

Dunne, used to do it for city all the time :lol...

[faber83]

Dear S.I.,

at this point of the maturity of your product, you should work on something to feed the "longevity" of pleasure & challenge for the old expert "aged" FM fans.

When the transfer windows are closed (although we can sign future transfers or free transfers), the whole playing becomes very boring and reiterative, just waiting for the calendar to go forward, clicking continue, continue, continue, with a lot of useless information in your news about the players you have in your shortlist, or the leagues you have in your subscriptions, etc. etc.: just some training variations, or contract renewal, or searching for players, or sending your scouts here & there, if you want; or screaming some dirty words, now & then, about absurd and massive injuries, and nothing more.

The reality of real football is that there is MUCH WORK TO DO DURING THE WEEK!

You should expand the training & the managing sections...

For example, you could expand the tactical training, and add some tactical focus or tactical session, talking to the players, once a week.

You could expand the features of physical training. And so on.

You could consider how to simulate the massive influence of the press, the TV and the fans in real football: tv interviews, tv talk-shows and sport news; meeting with the fans when things get bad or when you win some competition; accidents of fan violence, or fans invading the field, or weather extreme conditions, causing amercements, police restrictions or deferments of the match.

In the match engine, you could add pre-match warmings and let us see the privy-givings: I wanna hear the Champions' League music theme! If I win a competition, I wanna hear "We are the champions" while watching my players uncapping a champagne bottle and celebrate me, and then going around the field to hail at all the stadium sectors!

I'd like FM to become a real and total virtual reality!

[Danchinaski]

I've noticed several bugs and glitches that were reported early and regularly by myself and others which have not been remedied at all. For example:

* Whenever I switch from defensive to contain, the commentary states I've "decided to come forward a little more".

* The pitch view regularly changes in brightness, as if the lights have been switched on or off at half-time.

* Whenever I'm approached for a job and knock it back, it still states 'Applied' in the jobcentre. I'm then asked at interview why I'm "in the running for several jobs", even though I haven't applied for any.

You can add to this the commentary still refers to 'good goalkeeping' when a defender blocks a shot, and the way the tempo options in the team instructions occasionally show numbers (1,2,3 or 4) instead of the usual 'Low, Normal, Higher etc'.

I wasn't expecting a major ME haul with the third patch that some people seem to have been, but I did expect all of this sloppy stuff to be dealt with, and I'm disappointed that it hasn't been. None of it is game-breaking, but I do tut every time I see one of these things.

[Sussex Hammer]

Not sure where to put this question but someone may be able to know the answer on here. It's happened every season for me so far in the EPL regarding playing two League fixtures against the same team within a week or so over the Christmas period. In my latest save I played Arsenal at home on 20th December and then play them again on 28th December away. All other fixtures are pretty realistically spaced out but there is always this one team that you play twice over Christmas which as far as I know doesn't happen IRL. Was really weird in one save when I drew Swansea in the FA Cup Third Round and played them twice late December in the League. Just an oddity in the Fixtures computer?

[wkdsoul]

Not sure where to put this question but someone may be able to know the answer on here. It's happened every season for me so far in the EPL regarding playing two League fixtures against the same team within a week or so over the Christmas period. In my latest save I played Arsenal at home on 20th December and then play them again on 28th December away. All other fixtures are pretty realistically spaced out but there is always this one team that you play twice over Christmas which as far as I know doesn't happen IRL. Was really weird in one save when I drew Swansea in the FA Cup Third Round and played them twice late December in the League. Just an oddity in the Fixtures computer?

Its happened before now. Just an oddity. Dont think it should happen every year though.

[ac13]

IMO, that was a roundabout way of saying it's not much of an issue at all, and 'fixing it' would cause more serious knock on issues, so we'll look at it more indepth for FM17. Because if it was anywhere near as serious as some would have you believe, they would have found a way to fix it. But it isn't, so they didn't.

And even the minority who appear to be having the issue can mitigate it themselves by being more sensible tactically. Good call by SI on this IMO.

That's one interpretation. The other is that they acknowledge it's a problem but they failed to come up with an adequate solution in time. It's pretty disappointing that they couldn't. Even if they didn't fix the crossing issue there are many others they didn't too (low % of headers from open play, low % of DFK, low % of long range efforts). It's as if they focused all their efforts on the crossing issue which makes it even more disappointing that nothing was achieved. And it's not even that little was achieved in 16.3, the changes between 16.1 and 16.2 were really underwhelming too.

I had high hopes that 16.3 was going to be fantastic because it seemed obvious that they knew what the issues were (because they headed in the right direction although didn't go nearly far enough in 16.2). The sorry, we tried to make the really poor product better but everything we tried actually made it even worse doesn't inspire me much for FM17- as i'm sure it wouldn't if a Formula 1 team said the same to their fans/investors (let's keep the car analogies going).

Oh and the thing about people having problems because their tactics aren't sensible is nonsense. Do you have any reading comprehension skills at all? People are pointing to seasons of A.I vs A.I matches which show these issues. You cannot blame the human player's tactics for these. Are you saying SI is telling the A.I managers to play stupid formations and tactics? Players also point to having these issues using pre-set standard formations and tactics. The tactics suggested to counter the poor defending are totally lacking in sense in the real football world and are only sensible in terms of making the poor ME seem less bad.

[Mitja]

I guess it was not easy as balancing the wide attacking play, making wingers and FBs less effective, less willing to dribble, worse at finding space for crosses, improving defending of wide area and then fine tuning finishing and improvingattacking play in central space maybe it's just not as easy as we think. But it would be shame if this ME wasn't fine tuned for next release, I really hope we get 'finished product' next year instead of new one being in testing program.

[WayneRomney]

Borussia Dortmund buys Josh Kimmich for €24M, Bayern secures a buy back clause of €18M..............................

[Guest]

Borussia Dortmund buys Josh Kimmich for €24M, Bayern secures a buy back clause of €18M..............................

Great bug, do you have a save before Dortmund make their offer to Bayern?

[WayneRomney]

Great bug, do you have a save before Dortmund make their offer to Bayern?

No, sorry. I just took the Dortmund job and Bayern came in with for him.

[sporadicsmiles]

Not sure where to put this question but someone may be able to know the answer on here. It's happened every season for me so far in the EPL regarding playing two League fixtures against the same team within a week or so over the Christmas period. In my latest save I played Arsenal at home on 20th December and then play them again on 28th December away. All other fixtures are pretty realistically spaced out but there is always this one team that you play twice over Christmas which as far as I know doesn't happen IRL. Was really weird in one save when I drew Swansea in the FA Cup Third Round and played them twice late December in the League. Just an oddity in the Fixtures computer?

Did you (or they) have any clashes that caused the original fixture to be postponed, and then later to have it clash again and be postponed again? I remember once I ended up playing Man City twice at the end of a season due to this. Every time we should have played, there was a clash with a cup comp.

[santy001]

One area I have been absolutely delighted with (and only noticed during 16.3) is that squad management is actually required. Playing fixtures every 2 or 3 days with mainly the same squad isn't anywhere near as feasible as it was previously for me. I really like the fact its meant I have had to keep on youngsters who in previous FM's would have been discarded because there was no real use for them. I did try to take a team that almost sneaked into the top 4 with a very lean squad through the entire season and it was brutal the effects it had.

It's meant shifting my targets a bit to try and get some more players who are not just exceptional technically but more capable physically in terms of natural fitness & stamina even at the top levels. It's actually been a really pleasing shift as for years up until now I could just give players endless rest between games and suffer no ill-effects.

[luka_zg]

Are the finances in Italy OK? I feel, the clubs are too rich. I'm playing as Milan and at the start of new season I have 140 mil in balance. Projection for next season is 300mil! I really doubt that Milan has that kind of money in RL..

[Guest]

If that's an unedited database & is early in a save then it's clearly not right, could be part data & part game code so might take a little investigation on your part to figure out if it's more a data error or a game coding issue.

It has been mentioned elsewhere that they had an operating loss €100m in the last reported financial year & I imagine it could be more of the same for the coming financial statements.