Football Manager 2016 16.3.0 Feedback Thread

[Valkyrie88]

Valkyrie88, I strongly suggest heading over to the tactics forum & doing so with an open mind.

SI are aware of the various issues within the ME but under the constraints of the current ME code they are unable to address the specific issues you & others are encountering with crossing, continuing to post about accepted issues in here isn't going to change that fact so the next step is to investigate other tactical options that help mitigate against those ME issues, tactical solutions do exist.

As I said, even if tactical solution do exist, that also proves my point: I cant play the game the way I want since I come across these coding problem. Instead I would have to mitigate the issue in matter by employing certain tactical systems/instructions that I dont want. ******Rubbish Car Analogy & the next one isn't much better****** My job is marketing, telecom products and my clients would kick me in the face if I would tell them such things after they pay for a product. Again, I am willing to help but I am very sure that from this point on, only SI devs can really help. Our "job" is not to mitigate. We should find the bugs, yes, report them, provide PKM's and after that we should get a good working version of the game. Ty for all your replies, I said what I had to say so there is no point of taking this any further. I will "patiently" wait for SI to come up with a patch that fixes this. But i tell you from the bottom of my heart: SI should have never let this issue unnadressed since it's been brough up at lanuch date. I accept the fact that we are talking about softrware products and there will ALWAYS be bugs. But for Lord's sake, it's 5 months since the release date and NOTHING HAPPENS. FM community has always been loyal to SI, supported them, replied to them and paid for the game. This is not the way you treat your customers and "beta testers in a way". Good day to you all.

[ScottGooner]

Anyone's having issues with injuries? Every pre-season I have 4-5 long term injured players...

I used to get a couple of injuries during pre-season, so I dialed down the effort and built it up gradually, still get the odd injury but it wouldn't be football if you had a full squad all season.

[penza]

lol, FM 15 had so much more issues as stated often in this thread. Ping Pong with 50 shots and 5-3 scores all over the place. You are kidding yourself.:-)

yeah I am kidding myself omg! God help you...

[forameuss]

As I said, even if tactical solution do exist, that also proves my point: I cant play the game the way I want since I come across these coding problem. Instead I would have to mitigate the issue in matter by employing certain tactical systems/instructions that I dont want. Try to see it this way: you buy a car. You want to drive it in Germany. It doesn't work. It breaks. You adress the manufacturer and he tells you (after you buy it) that there is indeed a problem with driving that car in Germany, BUT you can drive it at the Austria border while you can still catch a glimpse of Germany. My job is marketing, telecom products and my clients would kick me in the face if I would tell them such things after they pay for a product. Again, I am willing to help but I am very sure that from this point on, only SI devs can really help. Our "job" is not to mitigate. We should find the bugs, yes, report them, provide PKM's and after that we should get a good working version of the game. Ty for all your replies, I said what I had to say so there is no point of taking this any further. I will "patiently" wait for SI to come up with a patch that fixes this. But i tell you from the bottom of my heart: SI should have never let this issue unnadressed since it's been brough up at lanuch date. I accept the fact that we are talking about softrware products and there will ALWAYS be bugs. But for Lord's sake, it's 5 months since the release date and NOTHING HAPPENS. FM community has always been loyal to SI, supported them, replied to them and paid for the game. This is not the way you treat your customers and "beta testers in a way". Good day to you all.

Ooh, ooh, we got a car analogy! That'll go down well.

Another tired "it's not our job" complaint. No-one said it was, but I find it absolutely baffling that people would rather stick their heels in and sit and complain bitterly when there are options to make it better. There is no point in drawing any analogies outside of the software world, because they're completely different things. There are ways to limit how these things affect.

[Tony Wright 747]

Valkyrie88, I strongly suggest heading over to the tactics forum & doing so with an open mind.

SI are aware of the various issues within the ME but under the constraints of the current ME code they are unable to address the specific issues you & others are encountering with crossing, continuing to post about accepted issues in here isn't going to change that fact so the next step is to investigate other tactical options that help mitigate against those ME issues, tactical solutions do exist.

I am not sure this thread is going anywhere, we know there are issues with the ME which can't be addressed with the current code, so the way I see it is we have three choices (well four actually)

We can adopt tactics which maybe you wouldn't use IRL to soften these issues.

We can go back to playing an earlier version of the game (the option I have chosen)

We can put the game away in a cupboard and wait for FM17

or we can say we are done with FM and not play ever again

All I ask is that SI make the ME the overriding priorty for FM17 and beyond

[Guest]

I am not sure this thread is going anywhere, we know there are issues with the ME which can't be addressed with the current code, so the way I see it is we have three choices (well four actually)

Totally agree, new day just brings another person with the same issue, they get to say their piece but then have to accept that it's either adapt to what we have or move on.

[Danchinaski]

I've noticed several bugs and glitches that were reported early and regularly by myself and others which have not been remedied at all. For example:

* Whenever I switch from defensive to contain, the commentary states I've "decided to come forward a little more".

* The pitch view regularly changes in brightness, as if the lights have been switched on or off at half-time.

* Whenever I'm approached for a job and knock it back, it still states 'Applied' in the jobcentre. I'm then asked at interview why I'm "in the running for several jobs", even though I haven't applied for any.

In addition to this, the top goalscorer and goal provider have mysteriously disappeared from the Competitions page since the third patch, only the most assists for cup competitions remain. I really don't wish to appear hyper-critical of FM16 because there is a lot there that I actually like and I still get enjoyment from playing FM, but these non-gameplay issues I've described have been raised frequently and then not fixed. I know absolutely nothing about game-development, and therefore assume that those involved couldn't remedy these issues, possibly because more focus was given to issues which affect gameplay directly.

None of these things are game-breaking in any way, but they do contribute to making FM16 look a bit, well, sloppy.

[Sussex Hammer]

Anyone scored a direct free kick yet?

[johnhughthom]

Scored a few.

Sorry for the awful quality, but they are all like this one, a few yards outside the area, in-swinger to the near post.

[video=youtube;eYOxkhvydck]

[Sussex Hammer]

Payet just keeps hitting it into the crowd for me. Not quite like real life!!!!!

Must say set pieces are pretty poor to get goals from,. In old versions if I was behind with a minute to go a corner or free kick could be quite exciting, unfortunately in FM16 (for me anyway) you just know all it does is waste a few more seconds as nothing will come of it,.

[johnhughthom]

Just checked, and I've scored 12 from corners in my last 50 games, which, if anything, seems slightly high. I score more from knock downs to a team mate than from heading it directly in.

Slightly better quality (I hope). Every season I get three or four like this. I pretend it is a combination of my great routine, training and Romagnoli's awareness, strength and touch, but I'd be ripping if I conceded one.

[video=youtube;kkHv4OHc7Fw]

[Cougar2010]

Payet just keeps hitting it into the crowd for me. Not quite like real life!!!!!

Must say set pieces are pretty poor to get goals from,. In old versions if I was behind with a minute to go a corner or free kick could be quite exciting, unfortunately in FM16 (for me anyway) you just know all it does is waste a few more seconds as nothing will come of it,.

I think you need to review your settings then.

Last 50 games I've scored 84 goals - 14 from corners (17%) & 5 from freekicks (6%)

Last 50 games I've conceded 49 goals - 5 from corners (10%) & 6 from freekicks (12%)

The corners probably don't include several scrambles in the box either.

[Dagenham_Dave]

I am not sure this thread is going anywhere, we know there are issues with the ME which can't be addressed with the current code, so the way I see it is we have three choices (well four actually)

We can adopt tactics which maybe you wouldn't use IRL to soften these issues.

We can go back to playing an earlier version of the game (the option I have chosen)

We can put the game away in a cupboard and wait for FM17

or we can say we are done with FM and not play ever again

Or the fifth option, and that is you continue to play as normal as you've never actually experienced any of these 'issues'.

That's the one I'm choosing.

[Marathon Dress Week]

Anyone scored a direct free kick yet?

When I eventually do I think I'll celebrate more than winning the title.

[wkdsoul]

Anyone scored a direct free kick yet?

Scored a few but not many

[Tony Wright 747]

Or the fifth option, and that is you continue to play as normal as you've never actually experienced any of these 'issues'.

That's the one I'm choosing.

SI have ackowledged that there are issues that they can't fix with the present codeing. If you personally are not experiencing these issues thats great, I'm really pleased for you, but others are so would have to choose one of the other options

[Cougar2010]

SI have ackowledged that there are issues that they can't fix with the present codeing. If you personally are not experiencing these issues thats great, I'm really pleased for you, but others are so would have to choose one of the other options

But given you don't even own the game why is it an issue for you?

[JaYmZeE]

To me this IS the issue that everyone bar a few is having it seems. Full backs over covering the centre halves and unless you play wide and high there is no way of stopping crossing. The use of counter attacking is greatly improved and I'm loving the attacking play I'm seeing on FM16 but teams trying to play narrow and deep (As Leicester do IRL and are top of the league from) are ruthlessly punished by overlapping full backs. In the photo above I am playing a standard, normal defensive line and balanced width yet look how bad my full backs positioning is, not to mention the fat that my ML is a wide midfielder and should also be helping out defensively ( I was not caught up the field either this is just plain poor over covering.

The game is not as bad as everyone is making out and I greatly appreciate the efforts of everyone at SI who make the game that I love, however this issue needs to be rectified as too many people are reporting the same issues.

I have never seen anything like this once until now - even then I'm not quite sure what the 3 villa players at the half-way line are looking so happy about. YOUR ASTON VILLA DEFENDERS - you've no reason whatsoever to be happy.

Or is this a screenshot for the new version of RollerCoaster Tycoon and I'm in the wrong forum?

Ah - your west ham defenders - that explains everything!

[JaYmZeE]

Scored a few but not many

I've scored so many - this surely can't be an issue. NO WAY!

[Tony Wright 747]

But given you don't even own the game why is it an issue for you?

It is not really that much of an issue for me personallly because as you say I haven't bought the game and am quite happy to play an earlier version until the ME is improved which if you had read my post earlier this afternoon that is what I said. It is an issue however for some who have bought the game, The point I was trying to make this afternoon was that there is not much point complaining at the moment because we know that nothing is going to change now until FM17

[Danchinaski]

Reading relentless circular bickering about crosses in this thread is grinding me down. I'm interested in the opinions of others in relation to the game, but is there any chance of a separate thread for all the crossing-related griping? After all, the ME is what it is, SI have stated their position regarding this, everything thereafter is bluster and froth.

[Dagenham_Dave]

SI have ackowledged that there are issues that they can't fix with the present codeing.

IMO, that was a roundabout way of saying it's not much of an issue at all, and 'fixing it' would cause more serious knock on issues, so we'll look at it more indepth for FM17. Because if it was anywhere near as serious as some would have you believe, they would have found a way to fix it. But it isn't, so they didn't.

And even the minority who appear to be having the issue can mitigate it themselves by being more sensible tactically. Good call by SI on this IMO.

[Kriss]

It is not really that much of an issue for me personallly because as you say I haven't bought the game and am quite happy to play an earlier version until the ME is improved which if you had read my post earlier this afternoon that is what I said. It is an issue however for some who have bought the game, The point I was trying to make this afternoon was that there is not much point complaining at the moment because we know that nothing is going to change now until FM17

So let them do their own commenting and stick to versions YOU are playing ?

[Tony Wright 747]

IMO, that was a roundabout way of saying it's not much of an issue at all, and 'fixing it' would cause more serious knock on issues, so we'll look at it more indepth for FM17. Because if it was anywhere near as serious as some would have you believe, they would have found a way to fix it. But it isn't, so they didn't.

And even the minority who appear to be having the issue can mitigate it themselves by being more sensible tactically. Good call by SI on this IMO.

I think if SI thought there was not much of an issue at allthats what they would have said

[Dagenham_Dave]

I think if SI thought there was not much of an issue at allthats what they would have said

Yes, because that would have gone down well. Diplomacy is important when dealing with such a 'passionate' fanbase.

[Sussex Hammer]

I think you need to review your settings then.

Last 50 games I've scored 84 goals - 14 from corners (17%) & 5 from freekicks (6%)

Last 50 games I've conceded 49 goals - 5 from corners (10%) & 6 from freekicks (12%)

The corners probably don't include several scrambles in the box either.

Direct free kicks, ie going straight in from a shot? If so doubt I can do much with settings as you can't really do much if a player just keeps blasting it over and considering my free kick takers are over 16 on free kick stats I would have hoped for the odd one to have gone in. Sadly I guess Payet's real life free kick run of goals didn't come in time for his stats to be upped to 21/20!!!!

[Tony Wright 747]

So let them do their own commenting and stick to versions YOU are playing ?

The fact that having played the demo and choosing not to buy the game does not mean that I don't have an opinion on the game and the series in general

[Cougar2010]

Direct free kicks, ie going straight in from a shot? If so doubt I can do much with settings as you can't really do much if a player just keeps blasting it over and considering my free kick takers are over 16 on free kick stats I would have hoped for the odd one to have gone in. Sadly I guess Payet's real life free kick run of goals didn't come in time for his stats to be upped to 21/20!!!!

I can never tell good set piece takers just by looking at attributes.

Its a case of trial & error, watching the games and seeing what happens with free kicks & pens. You then spot players who constantly miss the target, those that test the keeper and those that often hit the wall.

I would recommend trying a few players and see if you can find someone better. Also I appreciate that he is good IRL but that maybe hasn't transferred into FM and you then need to accept that the FM version of him simply isn't as good.

[Tony Wright 747]

Yes, because that would have gone down well. Diplomacy is important when dealing with such a 'passionate' fanbase.

Dave you know what they would have said "Its your tactics"

[Guest]

IMO, that was a roundabout way of saying it's not much of an issue at all, and 'fixing it' would cause more serious knock on issues, so we'll look at it more indepth for FM17. Because if it was anywhere near as serious as some would have you believe, they would have found a way to fix it. But it isn't, so they didn't.

And even the minority who appear to be having the issue can mitigate it themselves by being more sensible tactically. Good call by SI on this IMO.

The problem is a serious one as its impact on some user's experience is significant, the fact that the extreme aspects are limited to a minority does not make the issue any less important to them or SI.

When those people post we are encouraging them to look for solutions within the current tactical framework as they do exist, unfortunately this isn't helped by incorrectly inferring some sort of hidden context in Neil Brock's earlier comment on why the issue could not be fixed on the latest update.

It's great that you're among the FM'ers who either haven't encountered the issue or have been able to change their approach to lessen or nullify the impact but that doesn't remove legitimacy from those who are encountering issues with crossing in this match engine & we are here to help them.

[Silver Twilight Sparkle]

Well about the crossing thing, they could have at least tried to make AI use less abusive tactics, just conceded 4 crossing goals on a 4-3 defeat.

Maybe they tried, who knows? Even me playing "Exploit the middle" i score a high number of crossing goals without even wanting to.

[Guest]

I've decided to delete the last few posts, can people refrain form commenting on whether someone has a right to comment on a product.

Tony has at least tried the demo which will give a reasonable feel for the overall game, if it didn't it wouldn't be worth anything as a demo.

Thanks.

[santy001]

Well about the crossing thing, they could have at least tried to make AI use less abusive tactics, just conceded 4 crossing goals on a 4-3 defeat.

Maybe they tried, who knows? Even me playing "Exploit the middle" i score a high number of crossing goals without even wanting to.

SI themselves don't really have much influence over that side of things as we the researchers set what types of tactics the managers use. If a manager we're the researcher for does tend to use wide players in formations, and formations that play down the flanks then this will be done in game. You couldn't really change that without compromising the authenticity of the research.

[Alexivan]

I don't watch Bayern games usually.

But is Guardiola really using 4-1-4-1 IRL ? I mean, with ML and MR ? Because in no way i see Robben/Ribery play in those positions...

From my simulated saves, Bayern usually fails, and i think it's down to this tactic.

[Guest]

I don't watch Bayern games usually.

But is Guardiola really using 4-1-4-1 IRL ? I mean, with ML and MR ? Because in no way i see Robben/Ribery play in those positions...

From my simulated saves, Bayern usually fails, and i think it's down to this tactic.

This is something to raise in the German data thread as that will be a formation set by the researchers.

[andu1]

I don't watch Bayern games usually.

But is Guardiola really using 4-1-4-1 IRL ? I mean, with ML and MR ? Because in no way i see Robben/Ribery play in those positions...

From my simulated saves, Bayern usually fails, and i think it's down to this tactic.

Yes, he uses 4-1-4-1. http://www.flashscore.com/match/QJwdpUyS/#lineups;1

[Guest]

He also uses a 4-3-3 DM wide according to UEFA - http://www.uefa.com/newsfiles/ucl/2016/2015767_lu.pdf

It's all a matter of interpretation & I'm sure that the German research team will be happy to have a reasoned discussion.

[andu1]

He also uses a 4-3-3 DM wide according to UEFA - http://www.uefa.com/newsfiles/ucl/2016/2015767_lu.pdf

It's all a matter of interpretation & I'm sure that the German research team will be happy to have a reasoned discussion.

If and when FM will add tactics for attacking shape or defensive shape we will be able to replicate the RL tactics more.

thinking now about the old CM series which had off the ball positioning.

[Guest]

As it's discussing data included in the winter update I'll run with this, if only for a change in the theme.

What I would have liked is a consistent approach to formation setting, the German research team appear to have gone with the defensive shape & then relying on the code to set more attacking roles & duties while the English & Spanish teams have gone with the attacking shape & relying on player behaviour in the ME to make them work defensively.

btw looking back at the old games I always come to the conclusion that the old wibble/wobble system was a placebo, we didn't have any visual reference to confirm whether the players were doing what we asked so we all assumed they were, ignorance is bliss & al that.

[santy001]

As it's discussing data included in the winter update I'll run with this, if only for a change in the theme.

What I would have liked is a consistent approach to formation setting, the German research team appear to have gone with the defensive shape & then relying on the code to set more attacking roles & duties while the English & Spanish teams have gone with the attacking shape & relying on player behaviour in the ME to make them work defensively.

btw looking back at the old games I always come to the conclusion that the old wibble/wobble system was a placebo, we didn't have any visual reference to confirm whether the players were doing what we asked so we all assumed they were, ignorance is bliss & al that.

To be fair to an extent I think that is generally the advice we're given, I've set Mark Hughes to play with 4-1-4-1 or 4-4-1-1 as that's the way the team lines up defensively. In attack its more of a 4-3-3 or 4-2-3-1. It has been the mantra for a while now that formations should primarily be a teams defensive layout.

[andu1]

To be fair to an extent I think that is generally the advice we're given, I've set Mark Hughes to play with 4-1-4-1 or 4-4-1-1 as that's the way the team lines up defensively. In attack its more of a 4-3-3 or 4-2-3-1. It has been the mantra for a while now that formations should primarily be a teams defensive layout.

Maybe SI will implement both layouts in a future game. I think this would be a great tactical addition.

[swansongs]

If and when FM will add tactics for attacking shape or defensive shape we will be able to replicate the RL tactics more.

thinking now about the old CM series which had off the ball positioning.

Formation is defensive shape and roles and duties then define attacking shape.

It's perhaps a little restrictive compared to real life (with some very limiting role choices) but the feature already exists.

[Guest]

To be fair to an extent I think that is generally the advice we're given, I've set Mark Hughes to play with 4-1-4-1 or 4-4-1-1 as that's the way the team lines up defensively. In attack its more of a 4-3-3 or 4-2-3-1. It has been the mantra for a while now that formations should primarily be a teams defensive layout.

Hopefully the remaining AR's will start to follow suit during the next researcher phase, consistent interpretation across the entire data can only improve the end product, of course that will need the AM strata roles being selectable in the midfield strata to create the requisite attacking/defensive role options.

[andu1]

Formation is defensive shape and roles and duties then define attacking shape.

It's perhaps a little restrictive compared to real life (with some very limiting role choices) but the feature already exists.

It's too rigid, would be nice if something more user friendly with more options could be added.

[santy001]

Hopefully the remaining AR's will start to follow suit during the next researcher phase, consistent interpretation across the entire data can only improve the end product.

I'd suggest flagging up any examples of overly attacking teams in the data threads, it should be a rarity that a team has a formation like 4-2-3-1 set because it's too top heavy to be defensive really.

[swansongs]

It's too rigid, would be nice if something more user friendly with more options could be added.

I think it's nice and user friendly as is, no less than the arrows were (and far more than the sliders), but a lot more options would be very welcome indeed.

Central defenders can only play less or more risky passes. What happened to just a normal amount?!?

[swansongs]

I'd suggest flagging up any examples of overly attacking teams in the data threads, it should be a rarity that a team has a formation like 4-2-3-1 set because it's too top heavy to be defensive really.

Teams like Arsenal usually defend that way. Walcott etc. don't track back to defend regularly from the wings, but they are a modern exception.

[Federico]

I think the problem is not how players are deployed on the pitch but their behavior instead. I assume the best option for german researchers to reproduce the way Bayern plays was by choosing that kind of formation. Rather than thinking why Bayern fails so much, I'd rather wonder why british teams in example are so succesful instead, but I know the staff is doing a great work in order to find the correct balance of things, and I hope they pursue this goal until they get a reasonable and reliable result.

[s1111]

Bayern can underperform in game because AI Guardiola's playing mentality is set too defensive for how aggressively Bayern play in real life. The 'Attacking' tactical attribute set in the editor for him is 10, so he'll usually play on a Standard strategy. I edited it to 14 which should make him play Control and in two seasons playing in the Bundesliga Bayern won the league comfortably with 77 and 79 points in 34 games.

The tactical attributes set for AI managers can have a huge effect on how realistically the game plays out. I think a lot of issues can be traced back to it. Like players who are regular starters in real life being transfer listed because their natural position doesn't fit into the AI manager's preferred formation.

[Mitja]

I don't watch Bayern games usually.

But is Guardiola really using 4-1-4-1 IRL ? I mean, with ML and MR ? Because in no way i see Robben/Ribery play in those positions...

From my simulated saves, Bayern usually fails, and i think it's down to this tactic.

it should be 433 really. if it's 4141 than Barca plays 4141 too. SI finally got AML/R defensive positioning spot on imo. with support duty they defend ''normaly'', the flanks. with attack they stay higher up and deal with defenders and DMs..

if the closing down would be improved in future ME then the AML/R positions would have even more sense. currently pressing defenders isn't nearly near effective as it should..

4141- defending deeper

433- pressing high