Buying players still too difficult

[Ventricity]

One thing i find highly unrealistic is how hard it can be sometimes to sign young talents that are on very low wages and in lower reputable clubs comparatively to yours. It's not realistic at all, how can you justify this?

One thing is that the club, say any german club, don't want to sell the player. But that the player himself is not willing to go to a club that will exponentially increase his wages is ludicrous. We are not talking Mbappe here, who already was famous.

Secondly, since when does "having just signed a new contract" prevent a player wanting to join a much bigger club that is also willing to give him an even better contract? It does not make any sense. I got a bid accepted for Ezequiel Barco and this was his reason for not joining Arsenal.

[corn_onthecurb]

How old are the players you're trying to sign?

One thing that was way to easy to exploit was signing youth prospects. You used to be able to go around on youth intake day and steal the best young players for pennies. You can no longer do this as the players aren't interested, which is how it should be

[Ventricity]

Sure i completely get that problem. But that is not how the world works. Big clubs do hoard young talents for very little money. But for established talents it's a different game. The reason clubs aren't willing to pay alot of money for talents is that most talents don't make it. So you see, it's an inherent fault in FM that talents always make it because they have static potential. Making talents unwilling to move to a much higher paying club is not the solution.

The solution is of course that having potential is not enough to make it. It should be a combination of nurturing by environment(club training, building confidence), player personality(professionalism, dedication), and luck (avoiding injuries).

[Neil Brock]

11 minutes ago, Ventricity said:

Sure i completely get that problem. But that is not how the world works. Big clubs do hoard young talents for very little money. But for established talents it's a different game. The reason clubs aren't willing to pay alot of money for talents is that most talents don't make it. So you see, it's an inherent fault in FM that talents always make it because they have static potential. Making talents unwilling to move to a much higher paying club is not the solution.

The solution is of course that having potential is not enough to make it. It should be a combination of nurturing by environment(club training, building confidence), player personality(professionalism, dedication), and luck (avoiding injuries).

I'm sorry but it's just not true that 'talents always make it because of static potential', An insane amount can effect in-game whether a player reaches their potential. Just because a player makes it in your game and even a large proportion of games does not mean they will make it in every game. 

Some players have a higher chance due to their hidden stats as well, but if you look at every player with say a 150+ PA at the start of the game and holidayed for say 5-10 years from 10 different freshly started saves, nowhere close to every player will have peaked at their PA.

[Ventricity]

I'm not talking about players managed by the computer. If you buy a talent, give him playing time and he will become close to his potential. That's not true in real life because there is a mental part that is interconnected with the playing part.  There are so many really talented players that never make it at top level. Then there are even super talents that never really break through, like Jack Wilshere, Mario Balotelli, Ravel Morrison etc. just because of their lack of professionalism(not because of injuries, not because of a lack of playing time. Wilshere still thinks pumping weights and going to night clubs are good ideas). 

[mack4ever]

1 hour ago, Ventricity said:

I'm not talking about players managed by the computer. If you buy a talent, give him playing time and he will become close to his potential. That's not true in real life because there is a mental part that is interconnected with the playing part.  There are so many really talented players that never make it at top level. Then there are even super talents that never really break through, like Jack Wilshere, Mario Balotelli, Ravel Morrison etc. just because of their lack of professionalism(not because of injuries, not because of a lack of playing time. Wilshere still thinks pumping weights and going to night clubs are good ideas). 

In every version of FM I've had youngsters who have had the potential to be world class but who have never developed to any kind of good level because their attitude wasn't good enough. I've also had plenty of players who have been great at one club but whose career has then dropped off a cliff once they've signed for me and failed to ever recover after leaving me because they simply couldn't adapt to any new clubs once they left their first one.

[tomzo_2]

6 hours ago, Ventricity said:

One thing i find highly unrealistic is how hard it can be sometimes to sign young talents that are on very low wages and in lower reputable clubs comparatively to yours. It's not realistic at all, how can you justify this?

One thing is that the club, say any german club, don't want to sell the player. But that the player himself is not willing to go to a club that will exponentially increase his wages is ludicrous. We are not talking Mbappe here, who already was famous.

Secondly, since when does "having just signed a new contract" prevent a player wanting to join a much bigger club that is also willing to give him an even better contract? It does not make any sense. I got a bid accepted for Ezequiel Barco and this was his reason for not joining Arsenal.

Also agree -

 

I also simmed a few different years to understand transfer figures etc. Leon Goretzka of Hoffenheim is bought for 8 million (in most saves in the first year) yet when I bid for him I'm quoted £30 mill. Similar with Kevin Volland and Vietto both bought for £35 mill in a couple of saves yet I'm quoted £113 and £60 (release clause) respectively. Not sure if this is a bug but extremely frustrating.

[Nonlondoner]

I've not found it difficult to sign 8 players from varying backgrounds in my Arsenal save. There's more preparation involved now but it still seems like a logical system. 

On the point of players always realising their potential, again I've not found that at all over the 10 years I've been playing FM. In 2017 I bought a young right back who exploded into the team way within a year of signing him. After the initial couple of months of holding down a first team spot he went off the boil, dropped down into the reserves and by the end of his 3rd season was rarely getting higher ratings that 6.50. By the age of 20 I'd sold him at a loss to a lower league team. I've seen this before too. So no, a high PA does not always result in a high CA. Just ask my virtual Theo Walcott!  

 

[nicobile]

Actually for me is the opposite, some signings seem really easy and low costed, specially comparing with fm17 and real life. Also teams ask for ridiculous amounts to accept a counter offer for less than half of what they asked, that also happened with a transfer listed player who they were selling for 6.25 mil and when i asked how much they wanted (in general i always start with an enquire) and they asked 13 mil, i countered with their asking price and they diligently accepted. For example i was able to get Pulisic for 30 mil, 5 less than his value and  being a great youth player. It was my first signing and im sure i could have gotten him for a lot less, they just gladly accepted my first offer. 

[LCpl]

It's been too easy for at least 10yrs to simpy snap up all the youth on the cheap and develop them, aided by scout tools and editors that render actual gameplay irrelevant.

Seems to be a bigger problem with being able to sign Correa, Pulisic, et al for less than realistic values. 

Celtic want £31m for Tierney. Which to be fair is silly, he's probably about a 145 PA and nothing more than a squad filler with good all round stats. I'd prefer they simply declined my offer. Naby Keita and Phil Coutinho this summer spring to mind - neither RB Leipzig nor Liverpool responded to interest with an inflated price, they simply said no. Now of course, if the player kicks off and you are unable to assuage his grief, you might slap an asking price, but sky-high asking prices up front are unrealistic, just as selling high potential players on the cheap with no evidence of unhappiness is unrealistic.

[FifaBing]

19 hours ago, tomzo_2 said:

Also agree -

 

I also simmed a few different years to understand transfer figures etc. Leon Goretzka of Hoffenheim is bought for 8 million (in most saves in the first year) yet when I bid for him I'm quoted £30 mill. Similar with Kevin Volland and Vietto both bought for £35 mill in a couple of saves yet I'm quoted £113 and £60 (release clause) respectively. Not sure if this is a bug but extremely frustrating.

This is my biggest issue with all this. I don't have a problem with the young players not wanting to sign at such a young age, and helping to avoid just hoarding young talent, but when the AI can buy said example, Goretzka nearly every time for $8M, but they demand four times that much from me, that's a problem I have with the game. If the AI wanted that enormous price from every club, even other teams controlled by the AI, that's fine, but not when the AI inherently treats me different than other AI controlled teams. 

[puffascruffowitz]

Really? Because I was surprised to find that players are relatively cheap compared to what has been going on IRL. I signed a couple of quality young players (De Ligt, Savic) for reasonable money. I thought that with the crazy inflation IRL, that FM would try to somewhat replicate that, but it seems they haven't quite. 

[eric1000]

19 hours ago, tomzo_2 said:

Also agree -

 

I also simmed a few different years to understand transfer figures etc. Leon Goretzka of Hoffenheim is bought for 8 million (in most saves in the first year) yet when I bid for him I'm quoted £30 mill. Similar with Kevin Volland and Vietto both bought for £35 mill in a couple of saves yet I'm quoted £113 and £60 (release clause) respectively. Not sure if this is a bug but extremely frustrating.

FM has been like this for years.  It's an Ai cheat to prevent the player from exploiting the system although Si will never admit that.  I see it as treating a mild headache with a shot of morphine administered by a sledgehammer.

[HUNT3R]

7 minutes ago, eric1000 said:

It's an Ai cheat to prevent the player from exploiting the system although Si will never admit that.

Because it isn't true at all. Do not spread falsehoods.

[eye-switcher]

its true though that the ai shops cheaper than you

[HUNT3R]

11 minutes ago, eye-switcher said:

its true though that the ai shops cheaper than you

No, sorry, it isn't. If it happens, it's rare and should be reasons for it and more importantly - if it happens without those reasons, it's a bug. Please report it with a save from before a offer is made.

[eric1000]

1 hour ago, HUNT3R said:

Because it isn't true at all. Do not spread falsehoods.

It isn't a falsehood.  Time and time again the Ai can buy players for much less than the player & pay him less in wages.  it has been like this for years now and the old excuses that Si throw around like 'the player may not like your team, the player may not want to move ( no problem moving to an Ai team for less money though ) just don't hold water.  I mean, I get it.  The must be something in there to balance human out of the box logic that can exploit a linear thinking Ai but this measure is way too transparent. 

[HUNT3R]

Just now, eric1000 said:

It isn't a falsehood.  Time and time again the Ai can buy players for much less than the player & pay him less in wages.  it has been like this for years now and the old excuses that Si throw around like 'the player may not like your team, the player may not want to move ( no problem moving to an Ai team for less money though ) just don't hold water.  I mean, I get it.  The must be something in there to balance human out of the box logic that can exploit a linear thinking Ai but this measure is way too transparent. 

There's no "balance" taking place. If there's not a valid reason, it's a bug. It's that simple. SI can take a look under the hood to see what's going on and why things are happening.

[RandomGuy.]

I've made moves for players, been quoted £30m, then they've moved elsewhere the same week for £10m. 

Never sure if it's just the fact the AI is better at structuring deals and it seemed like the full fee wouldn't appear in the "Transfer History" section until the installments had been paid, or if it was simply a case of me being treated differently 

[itay.bing]

On 10/29/2017 at 15:50, Ventricity said:

Sure i completely get that problem. But that is not how the world works. Big clubs do hoard young talents for very little money.

that is what happening,but before the youth intake date.your team rep influences the quality of regens-regens are likely to pick the best club that is interested in them.if you are bayern,and a youth player is generated at union or hertha,he was presumably either rejected by bayern or is a hertha fan and prefers them.in real life you don't have a list of every single player generated in the world by month,and the 16 year old star player in the best team in Cameroon exist in the very same manner that an 8th division substitute exists,so both needs to be scouted.if you wish to sign players at 16 generated in other clubs and countries,i think it's fair you will have to scout thousands upon thousands of currently grey players,like you would have real life. since that can't happen there must be some limitation to buying of just generated players.

 

1 hour ago, RandomGuy. said:

I've made moves for players, been quoted £30m, then they've moved elsewhere the same week for £10m. 

Never sure if it's just the fact the AI is better at structuring deals and it seemed like the full fee wouldn't appear in the "Transfer History" section until the installments had been paid, or if it was simply a case of me being treated differently 

i often get that feeling too,especially annoying when you get offers for players and teams think you are a sucker.got two very insulting offers for my two star players,both wonderkids,from the big clubs in europe. i thought it was just because of my teams rep,3 stars.later i quit,AI manager fills in,and they get sold for 12.5 (release clause,about three times bigger than the offer i got including future fees) and 21 or something like that (4-5 times the offer i got including fees,the sum is before future fees i assume are in the deal).

[oulzac]

Buying players should be difficult. Look at this past window. Look at the teams that refused to sell their players. Yes lots of transfer happen. But no team is obligated to sell their player. Nor are the obligated to give you a deal you think is fair.

[Ventricity]

It's not easy to find young talents in game unless you cheat and use the editor or look at the internet for wonderkids etc. But that's not reality. The game should not accomodate things outside the realm of simulated reality. Given only the knowledge of your game in-game experience, there's no way you would risk paying alot for som 17 year old unless you are absolutely sure the scouts are right. Now, finding such a player in game is really difficult actually. The problem is that usually he isn't even interested in the move, increasing his small wages drastically. Why have none in this thread answered about this? Again it's not about your inflated "cheating", i'm talking realism. 

[Svenc]

6 hours ago, eric1000 said:

The must be something in there to balance human out of the box logic that can exploit a linear thinking Ai but this measure is way too transparent. 

 

Whatever issues there are with transfers, and there are quite a few traditionally: The "linear thinking" on display in such threads is ridiculously more simplistic than what the AI has. There is already evidence in this thread that guys don't even prepare to negotiate, unsettle, wait for the right moment, or anything, and also don't understand what negotiating is in the first place. There's always been oddities and bugs, in parts they relate to rigid programming, and limitations (previously in particular AI AFAIK having no "memory" of past offers neglected, e.g. every bid is/used to be considered a new offer at the moment it goes in). But what an AI manager first responds to you isn't what he actually wants, you know, it's testing the waters. This is the same tired argument as they tend to occur as of the ME / AI tactics. Surely there must be something in that keeps the AI competitive, yet when pushed, even the simple means and AI logics of reacting to scorelines rather than praying for the best, making pitches typically bigger when trying to score and vice versa, chopping things up at HT when it's not going well -- actually match management that on the odd day may shift the odds into the AI manager's favor, is typically superior to the player who always suggests such (-> if I have more possession and shots, I'm surely going to win).

The AI has consistently bought lesser players for more money, paying them higher wages, not even coming close to maximizing its budget the way a human player does. That's the actual issue here in terms of transfer value / squad development, and nonsense like this completely distracts from it.

[y2k1]

It has always pissed me off that its like 99% impossible to sign a player who has just signed (ie was bought by a club prior to starting the game) for a club. OK I get that its a bit of an annoyance to have moved somewhere but what I have found in the game series is that you could be a giant club like Liverpool, buying a young unknownish player offering big wages but its always "has no interest, already signed for a club". Yeah so what? The club agreed to sell the player they just bought why should the player themselves be so inflexible? 

Perhaps SI can introduce an option to disable the "just signed for new club" for the first summer, so we get a chance to buy these players. 

[rusty217]

3 hours ago, RandomGuy. said:

I've made moves for players, been quoted £30m, then they've moved elsewhere the same week for £10m. 

Never sure if it's just the fact the AI is better at structuring deals and it seemed like the full fee wouldn't appear in the "Transfer History" section until the installments had been paid, or if it was simply a case of me being treated differently 

So the AI buys players cheaper than you because you're too lazy to negotiate the price down? That's on you, not the AI...

In my experience with FM, if they make a counter offer than that means you're initial offer wasn't far off a price they'd accept. So if you go back to it and add a little bit (might have to do it a few times) then they should eventually accept, without needing to pay the ridiculous amount they asked for.

[RandomGuy.]

8 hours ago, rusty217 said:

So the AI buys players cheaper than you because you're too lazy to negotiate the price down? That's on you, not the AI...

In my experience with FM, if they make a counter offer than that means you're initial offer wasn't far off a price they'd accept. So if you go back to it and add a little bit (might have to do it a few times) then they should eventually accept, without needing to pay the ridiculous amount they asked for.

Yeah, I do know you have to negotiate with them. The £30m was just the figure they constantly countered up to, even trying to use the old "monthly installments" getaround that seemed to get you anyone for a spell, ended up at that figure. 

I would add that wasn't on this years game. 

[dewhirst]

One of the most frustrating things about FIFA Career Mode is how easy it is to buy players, there isn't any satisfaction in buying them. One thing I love about FM is the fact that it is so hard to buy the best players, so you have to be smart about it and take some risks. 

The only thing that has annoyed me over the years is when another team has a bid accepted for a player, and then when I come in with the same amount of money, it's rejected. 

[themadsheep2001]

10 hours ago, Svenc said:

 

Whatever issues there are with transfers, and there are quite a few traditionally: The "linear thinking" on display in such threads is ridiculously more simplistic than what the AI has. There is already evidence in this thread that guys don't even prepare to negotiate, unsettle, wait for the right moment, or anything, and also don't understand what negotiating is in the first place. There's always been oddities and bugs, in parts they relate to rigid programming, and limitations (previously in particular AI AFAIK having no "memory" of past offers neglected, e.g. every bid is/used to be considered a new offer at the moment it goes in). But what an AI manager first responds to you isn't what he actually wants, you know, it's testing the waters. This is the same tired argument as they tend to occur as of the ME / AI tactics. Surely there must be something in that keeps the AI competitive, yet when pushed, even the simple means and AI logics of reacting to scorelines rather than praying for the best, making pitches typically bigger when trying to score and vice versa, chopping things up at HT when it's not going well -- actually match management that on the odd day may shift the odds into the AI manager's favor, is typically superior to the player who always suggests such (-> if I have more possession and shots, I'm surely going to win).

The AI has consistently bought lesser players for more money, paying them higher wages, not even coming close to maximizing its budget the way a human player does. That's the actual issue here in terms of transfer value / squad development, and nonsense like this completely distracts from it.

Yep. And it goes the same way when selling. I've just sold Smalling and Darmian for a combined £52m while bringing Inigo Martinez and Milinkovic-Savic for less. 

[bucket]

19 hours ago, LCpl said:

It's been too easy for at least 10yrs to simpy snap up all the youth on the cheap and develop them, aided by scout tools and editors that render actual gameplay irrelevant.

Seems to be a bigger problem with being able to sign Correa, Pulisic, et al for less than realistic values. 

Celtic want £31m for Tierney. Which to be fair is silly, he's probably about a 145 PA and nothing more than a squad filler with good all round stats. I'd prefer they simply declined my offer. Naby Keita and Phil Coutinho this summer spring to mind - neither RB Leipzig nor Liverpool responded to interest with an inflated price, they simply said no. Now of course, if the player kicks off and you are unable to assuage his grief, you might slap an asking price, but sky-high asking prices up front are unrealistic, just as selling high potential players on the cheap with no evidence of unhappiness is unrealistic.

That’s what they quoted me too, but got him for £19m and 20% sell on fee. It’s all about negotiating! Never just accept their first offer or counter offer. I usually bid for a player just about his valuation and then take it from there. 

[bucket]

Didn’t both Naby and Coutinho kick off because they couldn’t move? Liverpool are signing Keita next season for £62m. He’s not worth that, but was his release clause. 

[tomzo_2]

11 hours ago, Svenc said:

 

Whatever issues there are with transfers, and there are quite a few traditionally: The "linear thinking" on display in such threads is ridiculously more simplistic than what the AI has. There is already evidence in this thread that guys don't even prepare to negotiate, unsettle, wait for the right moment, or anything, and also don't understand what negotiating is in the first place. There's always been oddities and bugs, in parts they relate to rigid programming, and limitations (previously in particular AI AFAIK having no "memory" of past offers neglected, e.g. every bid is/used to be considered a new offer at the moment it goes in). But what an AI manager first responds to you isn't what he actually wants, you know, it's testing the waters. This is the same tired argument as they tend to occur as of the ME / AI tactics. Surely there must be something in that keeps the AI competitive, yet when pushed, even the simple means and AI logics of reacting to scorelines rather than praying for the best, making pitches typically bigger when trying to score and vice versa, chopping things up at HT when it's not going well -- actually match management that on the odd day may shift the odds into the AI manager's favor, is typically superior to the player who always suggests such (-> if I have more possession and shots, I'm surely going to win).

The AI has consistently bought lesser players for more money, paying them higher wages, not even coming close to maximizing its budget the way a human player does. That's the actual issue here in terms of transfer value / squad development, and nonsense like this completely distracts from it.

I agree with your comment as in it shouldn't be a straight forward sale.

[LCpl]

3 hours ago, bucket said:

Didn’t both Naby and Coutinho kick off because they couldn’t move? Liverpool are signing Keita next season for £62m. He’s not worth that, but was his release clause. 

They did yeah. But neither club sold. But neither club said "300m" either. They said no. Both players were unhappy, neither club budged. Naby will go next summer, but RBL did not want to sell this summer, and didn't. 

What I'm saying is, the game should be more realistic, should simply say no, should ignore the players transfer list request if need be. Strikes me that they simply ask for an inflated price and are too easy to negotiate down. I've already in a couple of saves in different countries signed multiple outstanding players for much less than real life would ever see. Not withstanding nonsense like Mbappe being sold a week after his permanent move.

The game mechanic that dictates a player can be stolen at a fixed price is utter poppycock. I shouldn't be able to simply rinse clubs, nor should I be able to keep bidding until the magical price.

Release clauses are irrelevant. They exist. They have no bearing on a discussion around buying players without them for les than realistic amounts or being able to buy anyone for a certain multiplier.

[tajj7]

Seems fine to me.

Only done two saves but managed to get De Light and Dolberg from Ajax for reasonable fees if you put the add ons into the deal (think I got both for sub £10 million up front). 

I managed to get Icardi for about £70 million overall, around £35 million up front which seems about right for a player they didn't want to sell, is very good and is their captain. 

Butland was about £25 million rising to about £40 million which is in line with for example Pickford, 

The scout assessments of transfer fees seem pretty much spot on, if you work around the max figure but get there in add ons and installments most clubs agree. 

Players where it says the club doesn't want to sell, the fees are massive and the AI doesn;t negotiate them down that much. 

[LCpl]

Yeah, I too got Butland for £25 plus addons.

It's far too easy to get De Ligt and Dolberg though. Neither will ever be that cheap unless there's only a year left on the deal and I'm not sure F recognises that.

 

[Karnack]

46 minutes ago, LCpl said:

They did yeah. But neither club sold. But neither club said "300m" either. They said no. Both players were unhappy, neither club budged. Naby will go next summer, but RBL did not want to sell this summer, and didn't. 

What I'm saying is, the game should be more realistic, should simply say no, should ignore the players transfer list request if need be. Strikes me that they simply ask for an inflated price and are too easy to negotiate down. I've already in a couple of saves in different countries signed multiple outstanding players for much less than real life would ever see. Not withstanding nonsense like Mbappe being sold a week after his permanent move.

The game mechanic that dictates a player can be stolen at a fixed price is utter poppycock. I shouldn't be able to simply rinse clubs, nor should I be able to keep bidding until the magical price.

Release clauses are irrelevant. They exist. They have no bearing on a discussion around buying players without them for les than realistic amounts or being able to buy anyone for a certain multiplier.

Just out of curiosity, how do you know what the clubs say to each other during negotiations?

[tajj7]

6 minutes ago, LCpl said:

Yeah, I too got Butland for £25 plus addons.

It's far too easy to get De Ligt and Dolberg though. Neither will ever be that cheap unless there's only a year left on the deal and I'm not sure F recognises that.

 

I dunno, maybe they are a little cheap but I think Ajax welcomes the money. When I looked at the social feed they are the only club where the fans seemed fine about them leaving, saying things like 'can't begrudge him the move' and 'he's moving on to better things'. etc. 

Neither was doesn't want to sell either, maybe Ajax just accept they will sell their youth players on at some point and take the millions on offer to re-invest. IIRC the prize money in the Eredivisie and wages are all quite low.  So getting a potential £25 million (which is what it seems to take about overall) is a lot of money for them. 

[LCpl]

34 minutes ago, Karnack said:

Just out of curiosity, how do you know what the clubs say to each other during negotiations?

The ample public statements made by both clubs. Kinda hard to miss(?), on account of being quite so publicly dragged out in the mainstream media for several months with multiple interviews and public statements.

What are you getting at? The discussion is about ease or difficulity of buying players. In some cases people are finding it hard. In other cases it seems not only too easy, but terribly unrealistic still. Do you have any contextual experience to lend based on the beta?

[Karnack]

5 minutes ago, LCpl said:

The ample public statements made by both clubs. Kinda hard to miss(?), on account of being quite so publicly dragged out in the mainstream media for several months with multiple interviews and public statements.

What are you getting at? The discussion is about ease or difficulity of buying players. In some cases people are finding it hard. In other cases it seems not only too easy, but terribly unrealistic still. Do you have any contextual experience to lend based on the beta?

Aye, indeed. But how do we know how the negotiations are being held behind closed doors? We only see what the media and/or club representatives give us.
You are saying that it's not realistic but how do you know what goes on behind closed doors? how do we know that representatives from Barca  didn't phone Liverpool, asked about Coutinho or even sent a bid in the region of £100m and Liverpools response was "No way, £300m or go away".  

The discussion is about realism and a lot of people on here think they know what the realistic response would be, but we don't know. It's all based on media and public statements, the actual negotiations is an unknown for most of us.

[LCpl]

32 minutes ago, tajj7 said:

I dunno, maybe they are a little cheap but I think Ajax welcomes the money. When I looked at the social feed they are the only club where the fans seemed fine about them leaving, saying things like 'can't begrudge him the move' and 'he's moving on to better things'. etc. 

Neither was doesn't want to sell either, maybe Ajax just accept they will sell their youth players on at some point and take the millions on offer to re-invest. IIRC the prize money in the Eredivisie and wages are all quite low.  So getting a potential £25 million (which is what it seems to take about overall) is a lot of money for them. 

Yeah, Ajax, PSV, Feyenoord do all seem to get rinsed quite easily without much fuss. This obviously mirrors reality to a degree since they are stepping stones in every respect. I'm just quite surprised how cheaply we can steal players of great potential. Perhaps the AI only see's the predefined asking price based on a CA parameter rather than a potential parameter. I do find that leagues running in full detail as playable are more realistic, leagues running unplayable are easy as hell to buy from. I currently run about 30 leagues from 18 nations in an effort to keep it competitive. Example, buying from Brazil is in my experience about 30-40% cheaper when Brazil is not active., obviously some element of the AI is dormant in that instance.

[Ventricity]

41 minutes ago, LCpl said:

Yeah, I too got Butland for £25 plus addons.

It's far too easy to get De Ligt and Dolberg though. Neither will ever be that cheap unless there's only a year left on the deal and I'm not sure F recognises that.

 

Really? In real life neither player is worth that much. You hear that clubs have bid on this and that and big sums, but in reality that are agent and other clubs playing the market. Dolberg would be a huge risk to any club as he has not proven anything yet, I doubt anyone this summer was willing to pay more than 20m pounds for him. De Ligt is possibly even worse, because young center backs are the biggest investment risk you can do at higher prices. How many young center backs have gone for the kind of money he is worth in FM? Not many, and certainly those were far more experienced than him. Talents like Varane, Zouma etc went for far less justified by inflation for example.

Again, my point is that this is the result of FM faulty potential ability system, because unlike in real life, they will almost always become good.

 

[LCpl]

Just now, Karnack said:

Aye, indeed. But how do we know how the negotiations are being held behind closed doors? We only see what the media and/or club representatives give us.
You are saying that it's not realistic but how do you know what goes on behind closed doors? how do we know that representatives from Barca  didn't phone Liverpool, asked about Coutinho or even sent a bid in the region of £100m and Liverpools response was "No way, £300m or go away".  

The discussion is about realism and a lot of people on here think they know what the realistic response would be, but we don't know. It's all based on media and public statements, the actual negotiations is an unknown for most of us.

Yeah, I get that. Maybe, Barcelona didn't expect PSG to accept an outrageous figure. Would be nice in FM if rather than just give me a stupid price they simply decline to sell. Every year there's a moan in GD about how some tinpot club in Belarus wont sell it's £5k valued 198 PA regen for £500k and is asking for £28m to which the SI annual response is, they dont want to sell. I'd honestly prefer to see more of the 'respectfully decline your offer, high potential, blah blah blah' to outlandish asking prices.

[LCpl]

5 minutes ago, Ventricity said:

Really? In real life neither player is worth that much. You hear that clubs have bid on this and that and big sums, but in reality that are agent and other clubs playing the market. Dolberg would be a huge risk to any club as he has not proven anything yet, I doubt anyone this summer was willing to pay more than 20m pounds for him. De Ligt is possibly even worse, because young center backs are the biggest investment risk you can do at higher prices. How many young center backs have gone for the kind of money he is worth in FM? Not many, and certainly those were far more experienced than him. Talents like Varane, Zouma etc went for far less justified by inflation for example.

Again, my point is that this is the result of FM faulty potential ability system, because unlike in real life, they will almost always become good.

 

Agree. In real life, neither is a given. In FM, the game should realise potential better and use potential as the crux of it's reasoning and dealing. Kinda what I was alluding to in post above.

Just reading your point above, about scouting tools. They skewer the dynamic somewhat because players have no interest in the realistic market and are simply looking to buy a select group of young players over and over again or hunting regens of a certain PA. In reality, finding young players is (without tools) hard and should be too. I pay more attention to mental strengths and physical/technical ability than reported PA's.

[ParanoidBuddha]

Please don't ask to make FM as FIFA where you can buy who you want, when you want. 
For serie A for example I think the opposite: players are being sold too cheap compared to real life (example: Milinkovic-savic for around 30M while in real life you have to spend minimum the double)  but apparently they will fix it before the game is released

[Cougar2010]

5 hours ago, LCpl said:

Yeah, I get that. Maybe, Barcelona didn't expect PSG to accept an outrageous figure. Would be nice in FM if rather than just give me a stupid price they simply decline to sell. Every year there's a moan in GD about how some tinpot club in Belarus wont sell it's £5k valued 198 PA regen for £500k and is asking for £28m to which the SI annual response is, they dont want to sell. I'd honestly prefer to see more of the 'respectfully decline your offer, high potential, blah blah blah' to outlandish asking prices.

It used to be that way but a certain section of the fan base claimed that was unfair and that every player had a price.

SI caved and now clubs respond with high prices but that section of the fan base still aren't happy because they can't take the hint.

Basically some users will never be happy until they can buy the players they want at the prices they deem reasonable.  Thats unrealistic, I fully agree with PB above and hope SI stick to making it more difficult.

[LCpl]

1 hour ago, Cougar2010 said:

It used to be that way but a certain section of the fan base claimed that was unfair and that every player had a price.

SI caved and now clubs respond with high prices but that section of the fan base still aren't happy because they can't take the hint.

Basically some users will never be happy until they can buy the players they want at the prices they deem reasonable.  Thats unrealistic, I fully agree with PB above and hope SI stick to making it more difficult.

Yup.

The same group of people that complain that they can't sell their own unwanted players at 200% uplift, but complain when the AI demands it for players they don't want to sell.

[turnip]

It kind of works both ways.

I couldn't sell a very competent Premier League-level Goalkeeper in FM17, despite his 'market value' (stupid concept though it is) being £12.5m but his asking price being more like £2.5m. Wages weren't unreasonable, either - after I flogged him somewhere for less than £1m, he was only on around £20k p/w - and his performances had been very solid. (I was selling him because I had a different keeper far better than he was).

Similarly, trying to get rid of a 21 year-old Brazilian international MR who I couldn't retrain to a position I used; he had a good season out on loan at a Bundesliga side but following that, I had no takers at even £7.5m. You'd think someone would be interested in more than a loan deal, but apparently not.

 

On the other hand, I had Man City come calling for a player who'd had a pretty phenomenal 18 months with my team, but who clearly wasn't good enough for them. I eventually sold him for £55m (his release clause), after holding out for nothing less (no, Man City, not even £51m plus a £375m buyback fee).

And then, a few seasons later, they were sniffing around for my most complete MC for around £120m until I decided he was basically irreplaceable. 

On the flip-side, I unsettled a young player at Nice, who the club were asking for £35m for and by the time the summer transfer window opened, he was on the transfer list for £5m. 

[tajj7]

14 hours ago, turnip said:

On the flip-side, I unsettled a young player at Nice, who the club were asking for £35m for and by the time the summer transfer window opened, he was on the transfer list for £5m. 

That bit was simply too easy to do in FM17.  I remember doing an Arsenal save where I wanted to buy as many English players as possible and overhaul the club, so one of my targets was Luke Shaw, so I go asking to Man Utd and they say like £90 million or something, so I say no. Add him as top transfer target, get my DOF to go watch him for a while, make some new bids that are non-negotiable so Man Utd have to reject and a month later I'm signing him for about £20 million as he was transfer listed.

I was hoping that had changed in this version. I did notice that in my current game Virgil Van Dijk is transfer listed by request at Southampton, for £75 million which I thought was cool because that pretty much mirrors real life.

I do wish there was something inbetween doing nothing and offering a player to clubs/listing them. For example in my current game Emre Can was wanted by PSG, so he came to me and said he wanted to go to PSG, so I said yeh that's fine you can go if they put the right bid in because I think he is replaceable and I'm not really attached to him. 

So PSG sits there saying 'Wanted' next to him for like 3 months and they do nothing. Now I'd quite like to sell him but he's part of my team and thus I don't want to force him or list him, plus I want more than his value. In the press conferences, when asked about someone wanting your players there is an option to say, yes but only at the right price. 

Thus I want to option to go chat to PSG and say we might be willing to deal if you bid X amount, because if you offer the player out 9/10 you don't get his value at all, even if the club wanting him has wanted him for ages.  I'm not saying I want to double his value, I'm saying I want to sell a player say valued at £40 million for £50 million like the press speculation is saying, much like a similar fee I might have to pay for a player of the AI that they are willing to sell but aren't getting rid off. 

But 9/10 these teams want a player, player notices and wants to leave, you consider it, either say nope cos they are irreplaceable or agree and plan his replacement, but no bid ever comes in for them and eventually the player becomes happy to stay again. I've had it several occasions on FM17 where the same damn club wants them again 6 months later and you go through the whole process again, I think on one Southampton save I had Sergej Milinković-Savić wanted by either Barcleona or Real Madrid on and off for about 4 years, with neither ever making a bid, but keeping him in a constant state of unhappiness.

Another annoyance is when you talk to these players about their agreed value, they rarely let you put that asking price about their current  value which is really stupid, they might be a key player for your team on a long term contract but apparently asking for £60 million for a key player who is worth £40 million is pricing them out of the market. 

 

[Pingdinho]

1 hour ago, tajj7 said:

Thus I want to option to go chat to PSG and say we might be willing to deal if you bid X amount, because if you offer the player out 9/10 you don't get his value at all, even if the club wanting him has wanted him for ages.  I'm not saying I want to double his value, I'm saying I want to sell a player say valued at £40 million for £50 million like the press speculation is saying, much like a similar fee I might have to pay for a player of the AI that they are willing to sell but aren't getting rid off. 

Can't you do that though when you offer a player out as you can select certain clubs for the offer to be directed towards? So offer him to PSG for something just above £50 million.

[Mons]

On 10/31/2017 at 14:13, LCpl said:

Yeah, I get that. Maybe, Barcelona didn't expect PSG to accept an outrageous figure. Would be nice in FM if rather than just give me a stupid price they simply decline to sell. Every year there's a moan in GD about how some tinpot club in Belarus wont sell it's £5k valued 198 PA regen for £500k and is asking for £28m to which the SI annual response is, they dont want to sell. I'd honestly prefer to see more of the 'respectfully decline your offer, high potential, blah blah blah' to outlandish asking prices.

This was in place some versions back, but people criticised SI by saying that everybody has a price and that if x team received a bid of y euro for z player, then they'd surely sell. SI can't win! Fwiw, I think the present method is the more realistic option. Getting quoted an extremely high amount is the game's way of saying he's not for sale at any price...

[tajj7]

1 hour ago, Pingdinho said:

Can't you do that though when you offer a player out as you can select certain clubs for the offer to be directed towards? So offer him to PSG for something just above £50 million.

You can but as far as I know it still treats it like you are listing the the player and forcing him out of the club which potentially unsettles him.