Football Manager 2016 Out Now - Official Feedback Thread

[MBarbaric]

Personally, I think that the tactics translates into the ME if people actually read and understand the descriptions. The game also drops huge hints during matches and in those staff meetings between fixtures, but it seems these things evade a lot of the community. The confusion comes with the fact that there are people who don't know how to use the instructions and don't grasp the simple aspects of football (like how to use attacking or defending to your advantage)...

mate, even the basic mentalities give you wrong impression when you read them. not to go into depth svenc goes above where mentalities are split among the roles to such an extent that you need to do a scientific experiment to barely understand how it works.

basically, i don't want to learn about underlaying workings of how real football tactics translate to ME and in game tactics. i want to implement my ideas into ME and play the game.

[Svenc]

basically, i don't want to learn about underlaying workings of how real football tactics translate to ME and in game tactics. i want to implement my ideas into ME and play the game.

Sadly if you want to discuss this in technical terms, there's no way around going into specific details. Technically this isn't the ideal place for such, admittedly. I'd ignore it if it confuses, and by the way, it's not as if the AI would be able to "crack" anything or be programmed to be a super entity without faults (in fact, as late as FM 2015, I'd argue even beginners have an inherent advantage over AI-Guardiola in terms of setting teams to build-up -- if you're the slightest into the most basic guidelines, he's trying to get a short passing game going there whilst having a lone forward on attack duty always (=gets further forward activated), that is whilst he looks to keep possession, ahead of his flat midfield he employs he has typically Lewandowski visibly rushing miles ahead of play). For the player, THOG has this all translated very well already in his posts, he covered the aforementioned changes as per FM 2016 too in here. http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/442751-Important-FM16-Tactical-Changes

First, the Team Shape setting has been streamlined to make it less convoluted and easier to understand. It still affects differences in mentality and creative freedom, but now, "Very Fluid" means the team will tend to be more compact (with more creative freedom) whilst "Highly Structured" means the team will tend to spread out more back-to-front (with less creative freedom) with Fluid/Flexible/Structured simply being sequential steps between those two extremes.

In addition to that, now all team shape settings incorporate mentality differences between duties (just like the old Flexible setting used to work). So on any Team Shape setting, you should generally see more risk taking and more aggressive positioning from an Attack duty midfielder compared to a Support duty midfielder. One consequence of this is that your duties will have a greater influence on your overall style of play. A team full of Support duties will be far more possession-oriented whereas a team full of Attack duties will try to initiate attacks with much more urgency.

The argument thus is whether that should at all be the case, and that's why it's suited to the general feedback, as it's a huge thing likely completely unnoticed so far by most. To me it's making things actually more complicated (I went as far as calling it actually a conflict). Previously this was actually very simple, and covered by any in-game text. A full-back defend would keep his position. A full-back attack would look to surge forward. On support duty he would generally step up to support the midfield, but be more cautious with his attacking movement. Now you are ought to consider whether you want a side more forward pushing vs. recycling possession when picking your duties too, as it also influences the overall play. The new thing for me was that I only recently noted the visual cues. Being more oftenly a more "structured" guy, where they tie in nicely with what I'm observing due to the team being the most "spread out", as THOG puts it.

[Loversleaper]

mate, even the basic mentalities give you wrong impression when you read them. not to go into depth svenc goes above where mentalities are split among the roles to such an extent that you need to do a scientific experiment to barely understand how it works.

basically, i don't want to learn about underlaying workings of how real football tactics translate to ME and in game tactics. i want to implement my ideas into ME and play the game.

Basic mentalities do not give you the wrong impression - what's wrong is the interpretation and what people think they believe when the look at the ME. For example, this is something that goes on a lot around the forums:

You have a scenario where a Manager comes onto the forums and says "I can't get my team to play as a unit" - he then shows his tactical settings and right away I notice he has 4 players with the 'tries risky passes' instruction implemented in the roles. Now, he does not see the reality (if you take away the GK) that this makes almost half the outfield players attempting risky passes which naturally causes problems. Then you have people coming in giving him advice to play with more lower Mentalities - because apparently low mentality = more safe passing to some - and then he tries it and comes back saying "it's not working..."

Another big problem you have is that people on the forum somehow thinks their 'tactical outlook' should make sense in the game. In reality, it doesn't make sense in the game or out in the real world. Let's take Mourinho as an example: he has been a master of Counter Attacking football - but what happens when the other teams find out how his tactics work and become more efficient in stopping it? I mean, you are counting on countering spaces that the opposition leaves open - what if they decide not to do that anymore? It's kind of like waiting for someone who isn't coming...

You will be saying to yourself "he'll come, just wait and see..." and the other guy is saying "nah, I ain't coming - you think I am falling for that? No, I am going to wait and see if I can get a lucky punch or a set-piece and then you are going down in flames, my friend..." ---- Have any of you heard of the term "having a plan b or a plan c and coaches not having it"? This is what is going on in the game as well. They are trying to spell things out like having an attacking tactic and a defensive formation along with your 'preferred' tactical formations, they are giving you options to learn multiple strategies, they are dropping other hints as well. If you notice them or not, it's up to you...

But to come out and think that your strategy just should automatically be sufficient is just naive - you have to adapt your game sometimes and if you do so at the right moments, you will naturally reap the rewards...

[Shake Appeal]

I don't want to make a blanket defense of the current system, because there are plenty of problems with it, but if you generally make sensible footballing decisions about how your team will play, keep TIs and PIs to a minimum (when you fully understand how they will combine), you won't need to worry about what's happening under the hood. Just watch the game, take a quick look at the analysis screen, and make small tweaks to straightforward set-ups. The system is designed so you don't have to "translate" anything from real-life football to FM football. Unless you plan to be the next Bielsa, FM does not make it difficult to implement popular tactics.

Could there be more detailed explanations and better labels for things? Yes. Will you fail if you just keep it simple and sensible and stop turning on every setting just because it's there? No.

[Loversleaper]

You can have numerous attack duties, i.e. players going forward on any mentality and vice versa, the mix is up to you, thus you can have movement and break down teams on any mentality.

Here is the part where a lot of people fail and that is getting the balance right within the strategy you are using. First of all, many people simply doesn't understand the concept of when you can attack and when you should defend - which is really a very important part of football. Secondly, you have to use the right amount of players (more or less) with the whole duty concept to actually complement the strategy you are using. Can you make the Defensive strategy just as attacking as the Attack strategy? Not really, because of the closing down settings and the Defensive line. If you use too many Attacking duties in the Defensive strategy you will cause some pretty big contradictions that will not be good for the tactics at all.

Individual duties have to have, more or less, the right balance - and when you do that, then the descriptions of the strategies become more in sync with the visual ME. If you are all over the place, then naturally up will look down and down will look up... There are team settings that compliment each strategy - it's not rocket science to figure out which settings complement which strategy...

Only that as per FM 2016, attack duty players are not only given license to run forward ("gets further forward" activated, typically), they also play a significantly more aggressive game as their peers (vice versa for defend duty players), which almost draws the team mentality moot looking at the huge gaps in the more structured setups.

The huge mentality gaps in structured setups allows the ME to emphasize more on the 'roles' rather than the flowing type of game play where you have wingers running down the lines, ect... ect... Playing structured also requires that the Manager really knows what 'roles' you want where and what 'roles' you use together to make the team more of a unit - thus making it much harder to get right than the fluid systems which are fairly basic.

[themadsheep2001]

I don't want to make a blanket defense of the current system, because there are plenty of problems with it, but if you generally make sensible footballing decisions about how your team will play, keep TIs and PIs to a minimum (when you fully understand how they will combine), you won't need to worry about what's happening under the hood. Just watch the game, take a quick look at the analysis screen, and make small tweaks to straightforward set-ups. The system is designed so you don't have to "translate" anything from real-life football to FM football. Unless you plan to be the next Bielsa, FM does not make it difficult to implement popular tactics.

Could there be more detailed explanations and better labels for things? Yes. Will you fail if you just keep it simple and sensible and stop turning on every setting just because it's there? No.

Wouldn't say plenty of problem, though definitely some long standing key areas that can be working on (naming of mentalities, and the visual link between TI and PIs ie. if you choose a TI, it should highlight on a player any PI its "activated". This avoids some of the massive unknowing overuse of instructions). But essentially on the money here.

[Challenger]

http://www.elearnenglishlanguage.com/blog/english-mistakes/whos-vs-whose/?PageSpeed=noscript

[Svenc]

The huge mentality gaps in structured setups allows the ME to emphasize more on the 'roles' rather than the flowing type of game play where you have wingers running down the lines, ect... ect... Playing structured also requires that the Manager really knows what 'roles' you want where and what 'roles' you use together to make the team more of a unit - thus making it much harder to get right than the fluid systems which are fairly basic.

You're talking about the increasing levels of creative freedom / self expression in fluid setups, which is a different thing. Naturally if players are given license to self express, as is the case in fluid setups, very specific jobs given very specific instructions aren't as strictly followed/adhered to. It's another thing though and has little to do with mentality at all. Should take this somewhere else anyway. Doesn't seem like you get anything official on that sudden overhaul, which is quite drastic in its impact, which would interest me hugely personally.

If you use too many Attacking duties in the Defensive strategy you will cause some pretty big contradictions that will not be good for the tactics at all.

Btw, may be semantics, but it isn't anything bad at all inherently either. Previously all you did was giving a high number of players license to make forward runs always (there are a couple of exceptions, as playmaker roles available on attack duties for instance visibly aren't encouraged to do that). Still that's pretty much it. Obviously it's not "defensive" in any kind of way, as multiple players making regular forward runs from their default position means exposing your side. Whenever the ball is dropped, all of those players have to rush back into position. It's basically overloading the final third with attacking players, which you can do on any mentality. Which is why duty was so beautifully simple in its original conception, which by now is not so simple anymore.

[MBarbaric]

The strangest thing to me about the FM community is the number of people who make posts like this, in comparison to the number of people who watch the game on anything more than Key Highlights. People moan about the tactics system, but they don't even play the game tactically in the first place... because the majority of them are too impatient to do so and they never spot issues anyway because they don't watch the game regardless.

i've always played the game on extended, i believe now it is comprehensive, anyway, one notch above full match. so keep your generalisations for yourself.

[TurkishWonderkid]

Comparison of the youth facilities of two Istanbul teams considering the last 15 years

Galatasaray’s GOOD Youth Facilities:

Bulent Korkmaz (Played for 20 years as a key player)

Suat Kaya (Played for 10 years as a first team player)

Emre Belozoglu (Played for Galatasaray 5 years as a key player. He also played for Inter, Newcastle, Atletico Madrid and Fenerbahce)

Okan Buruk (Played for Galatasaray 12 years as a key player. He also played for Inter and Besiktas)

Tugay Kerimoglu (Played for Galatasaray 12 years and Blackburn Rovers 9 years)

Arda Turan (Barcelona player)

Semih Kaya (Galatasaray’s first team player)

Sabri Sarioglu (Galatasaray’s rotation player)

Emre Colak (Galatasaray’s rotation player)

Galatasaray's transfer spent this season: 4.5M euro

Fenerbahce’s GREAT Youth Facilities:

NONE!

Fenerbahce’s transfer spent this season: 42M euro

[Welshace]

Comparison of the youth facilities of two Istanbul teams considering the last 15 years

Galatasaray’s GOOD Youth Facilities:

Bulent Korkmaz (Played for 20 years as a key player)

Suat Kaya (Played for 10 years as a first team player)

Emre Belozoglu (Played for Galatasaray 5 years as a key player. He also played for Inter, Newcastle, Atletico Madrid and Fenerbahce)

Okan Buruk (Played for Galatasaray 12 years as a key player. He also played for Inter and Besiktas)

Tugay Kerimoglu (Played for Galatasaray 12 years and Blackburn Rovers 9 years)

Arda Turan (Barcelona player)

Semih Kaya (Galatasaray’s first team player)

Sabri Sarioglu (Galatasaray’s rotation player)

Emre Colak (Galatasaray’s rotation player)

Galatasaray's transfer spent this season: 4.5M euro

Fenerbahce’s GREAT Youth Facilities:

NONE!

Fenerbahce’s transfer spent this season: 42M euro

If you have any issue with Data.. post it here please: http://community.sigames.com/forumdisplay.php/504-Database-and-Research-Issues

Pointless posting it in this thread.

[Silver Twilight Sparkle]

anybody seeing backpass bugs? defenders try backpassing to keeper but he passes too weak so the striker scores

had 2 of these in 3 matches, then i replayed the match that happened the second time out of frustration and had it happen again but this time with a header, at least now i can get the pkm to report since i was sort of expecting it

[haffaz77]

i hope the patch is coming soon ... this is very annoying .. it ruined my whole season ...

[johnhughthom]

You want to patch out strikers outmuscling defenders?

[haffaz77]

You want to patch out strikers outmuscling defenders?

lol outmuscling ... the defenders doing that in the fm even with a 2 meters distance to the striker ... it looks totally ********

[Loversleaper]

Btw, may be semantics, but it isn't anything bad at all inherently either. Previously all you did was giving a high number of players license to make forward runs always (there are a couple of exceptions, as playmaker roles available on attack duties for instance visibly aren't encouraged to do that). Still that's pretty much it. Obviously it's not "defensive" in any kind of way, as multiple players making regular forward runs from their default position means exposing your side. Whenever the ball is dropped, all of those players have to rush back into position. It's basically overloading the final third with attacking players, which you can do on any mentality. Which is why duty was so beautifully simple in its original conception, which by now is not so simple anymore.

The Mentalities vary with the same role/duty from strategy to strategy, so that (for example) a Central Midfielder on support duty in the more Attacking strategies has a higher mentality setting than a Central Midfielder on support duty in the more Defensive strategies. So, the positioning will be different, put that on top of the strategies' Defensive Line settings and Closing Down settings - which also vary from the lower strategies to the higher strategies - and you will have entirely different structures. Too many Attacking duties whilst sitting deep defensively can only spell disaster and playing too many Defensive duties in the attacking frameworks won't be doing any favors in trying to pry open a stubborn defense...

Maybe we could get away with that before in previous versions, but you said it yourself - there is a more visual aspect in the behavior of the different mentalities. My experience so far is that if you are too far away in terms of duties that actually make up the different strategies, you get a lot more 'disconnected' and it is something I would advise against (if you actually want to be successful in the long run, of course)...

[Cougar2010]

lol outmuscling ... the defenders doing that in the fm even with a 2 meters distance to the striker ... it looks totally ********

Thats what is happening whether you like it or not.

Your clip is shoulder to shoulder, the defender goes to push Kane wide and Kane responds causing the defender to stumble & lose balance. The defender probably gets pushed a little too far away but thats only the graphics and makes no difference to the fact that Kane outmuscled him and then scored. Even if the graphics are improved that goal would have still happened.

In terms of RL you see it all the time in matches.

[PleasedToMichu]

Yeah there is absolutely nothing wrong with that clip. 2 players chasing a 50-50 ball, Kane outmuscles (defender probably does go wide a bit further than needed but yeah as pointed out above, he might have stumbled, tripped over his own leg in contact etc causing him to stumble further) and finishes. See it week in week out, no matter what level of football you watch.

[roykela]

The amount of backpasses that goes over the line, for a corner, i find a a bit high.

I know this was a problem, with players attempting a backpass with the wrong foot, in FM15.

Seems like it's back again.

Another thing that is back are goalscoring crosses. There's quite a few of them.

That was also present in FM15 before it got toned down considerably.

Might need some toning down again.

[Konfuchie]

Match engine this year feels much better.

Changes to training are disappointing though! Inability to change individual training workload independent of the team workload is a big minus. Also who ever thought of the idea that you can't cancel PPM training!?!? Central midfield you can't train differently for attack or defense roles. Also MC role doesn't train tackling and marking anymore!?!?

Transfer prices are ok, i don't see why are people complaining. But no single scouting or offer remains private. As soon as I get a scout report card on someone press leaks it!?!? Every single above average player that seemed good for the price I have put on the shortlist. All of them and I talk about 25 players got signed by a bigger club next transfer window despite those clubs heaven't really been needing them. All the good options just disappear!?!? It didn't happen before! I could track player for 3 years on my shortlist and sign him when the circumstances are right. But now they snatch them away from me first! I am forced to go for too expensive deals... And than I go for expensive deal, and look the miracle bigger club from my league makes an offer too... What are budgets for if you can't use them?

If this is intended Than there should be mechanism to notify me if a bit smaller clubs are eyeing a good deal, so I can also snatch me some!

[headshothitman]

Guys is anyone seeing the injury 'Broken Ankle' way too often? I have four players all out with the exact same injury, checked some other teams and they have some players with the same injury. I accept and acknowledge that injuries are very common irl and the game but always a broken ankle?

[kozmik]

Not sure if I should report this as a bug or not...

Recently started a new save with Manchester United. I picked the Russian league pre-season start date of June 13th, in order to get transfers done as early as possible and to get a longer pre-season to get all three tactics to full fluidity. When I start the game, I have a training camp scheduled to start on June 15th, and am asked to register players for it on the 14th. Problem is, quite a few of my players are on international duty and therefore ineligible to be registered. Then on the 15th, the training camp starts and some of my players return from international duty the same day, and Smalling and Shaw immediately start complaining about being left out of the camp squad before I have any chance to register them. To make matters worse, after several tries it seems that there's nothing I can do or say to them to calm them down - I either promise to sell them or they start complaining to other players. Thankfully this doesn't lead to full on mutiny, so it's just Smalling and Shaw who are unhappy. But I'm unsure whether it makes any sense to keep playing this save. If they calm down by themselves early enough for me to get their morale high(ish) before the start of the season then it's not a big issue, but I'm not sure they will. Extremely annoying.

I really don't understand why you can't register players on international duty even if they're not available at that specific point - they are all returning way before the camp ends. What's even more baffling is that I can register Phil Jones, even though he's out injured for months and therefore doesn't have any chance whatsoever to play before the start of the season, let alone during the training camp.

[roykela]

Not sure if I should report this as a bug or not...

Recently started a new save with Manchester United. I picked the Russian league pre-season start date of June 13th, in order to get transfers done as early as possible and to get a longer pre-season to get all three tactics to full fluidity. When I start the game, I have a training camp scheduled to start on June 15th, and am asked to register players for it on the 14th. Problem is, quite a few of my players are on international duty and therefore ineligible to be registered. Then on the 15th, the training camp starts and some of my players return from international duty the same day, and Smalling and Shaw immediately start complaining about being left out of the camp squad before I have any chance to register them. To make matters worse, after several tries it seems that there's nothing I can do or say to them to calm them down - I either promise to sell them or they start complaining to other players. Thankfully this doesn't lead to full on mutiny, so it's just Smalling and Shaw who are unhappy. But I'm unsure whether it makes any sense to keep playing this save. If they calm down by themselves early enough for me to get their morale high(ish) before the start of the season then it's not a big issue, but I'm not sure they will. Extremely annoying.

I really don't understand why you can't register players on international duty even if they're not available at that specific point - they are all returning way before the camp ends. What's even more baffling is that I can register Phil Jones, even though he's out injured for months and therefore doesn't have any chance whatsoever to play before the start of the season, let alone during the training camp.

To me it sounds like it's something that very well could be posted in the bugs forum.

[treble_yell_:-)]

I kinda feel PPM's are maybe slightly heavily weighted.

For example I'm seeing players with the shoots from distance PPM get in behind the opponents defence (ie be clean through on the keeper) actually stop 30 yards from goal and shoot instead of running through for a 1v1. I understand that to an extent this is to be expected expected , but it's really weird seeing Kane be through in behind the defence , physically stop and let them back in position then shoot from miles out. My other strikers without the PPM just continue on through.

[kozmik]

To me it sounds like it's something that very well could be posted in the bugs forum.

We'll see if I get around to it...

I did manage to find a workaround though, I cancelled the first pre-season game that was scheduled to be played on the first training camp day and the complaints didn't happen.

[Baldyloxxx]

Finally an CM/FM with complete newgens! At last, I've only been waiting since 94!

Some of the most balanced newgens I've ever seen on this series. Well done SI.

[roykela]

So rather than helping SI improve the game for both yourself and the rest of the community, you'd rather just send your moans out into the ether via this thread?

Why the need for a comment like that?!

This is the feedback thread. He gave feedback while wondering if he should report it as a bug or not.

He's still unsure whether to report it or not, but he definitely gave feedback.

As simple as that.

[FrazT]

Enough of the bickering please guys.

[phnompenhandy]

Are we still mindful of the "crossing bug", because I may have cracked it.

Briefly, crossing is way over-powered - at least in the lower leagues. I've been restarting saves in Levels 8-10 because my wingers with crossing attributes of 4 or under keep making pin-point crosses to the extent that 46% of my goals were coming from one winger whipping in a fantastic ball to the far post for the other winger to tap in (my striker never getting involved).

So this was persistently happening in my 433 formation, using AMRs on each flank as attacking wingers. What I've done is change the formation to a 442 - I still have attacking wingers (the same players) but at MR rather than AMR. Suddenly they're as pants as they ought to be and it's a struggle to score goals and grind out results.

I think therefore the AMR position needs looking at, certainly in a 433 with a lone striker who is used as an F9, dropping deep and effectively taking himself out of the game.

[qwerty22]

I really hope the next patch fixes the identical crossed goals being scored for and against my teams.

An early cross that passes everyone and is scored by the opposite winger, Or a set piece from the sides that is tucked in on the far post. ME is very repetitive but we have seen worse I guess at this stage.

Also I'd like to get some numbers on how many games or minutes are enough for each promise to be completed.

For example I promised a player a run in the side in 30 days and I have 5 games, How many games/minutes/sub appearance will be sufficient?

We need more information and maybe a proper manual, Most features are there but we don't OFFICIALLY know how to it works.

[dkouv]

Don't comment much, but wanted to give my two cents this time.

Think SI did a great job with the game. Reason being, the game is much harder/more challenging and you need a good squad in order to win games consistently. In the older versions I'd always be tempted at some point to download a tactic which exploits the ME and dominate everything with a mediocre squad. Then the game quickly becomes boring.

This time however there seem to be no ME-breaking tactics, and the good tactics actually play nice football. And winning requires building a team up over a number of years (if you start from the bottom like me), and them still losing a few games, which is way more satisfying than just winning too easily. I think this is the FM I've most enjoyed in many years, and I mean 10 years or something like that...

So I hope if SI do an update they keep this feature, that the game is hard to beat. I'm almost tempted to say don't update it because I don't want the new ME to be exploitable So by all mean tame down crosses a bit and so on, but don't change too much... And well done overall.

[Kazza]

Hi

Just bought the game last week and agree with "dkouv" comments above re playability and the game overall. really enjoying it. Coupled with the Andromeda skin, the game looks fabulous and plays very smoothly on my system. Congratulations SI.

Two questions:

1. Every time I load the game it goes through a fairly long process re start up with foreign languages appearing in the bottom right hand corner. This seems to add a good 20 seconds to the start up procedure. Is this normal or am I missing something; and

2. How and where can you find out what relationship you have with the other managers? Is that found in the press conferences or does that dialogue refer to the journalists re indifferent, devious etc?

Cheers

[isignedupfornorealreason]

The strangest thing to me about the FM community is the number of people who make posts like this, in comparison to the number of people who watch the game on anything more than Key Highlights. People moan about the tactics system, but they don't even play the game tactically in the first place... because the majority of them are too impatient to do so and they never spot issues anyway because they don't watch the game regardless.

Heh, whatever you say.

I think some people forget that the type of player who signs up for Football Manager isn't always someone who has a full comprehensive knowledge of football tactics. The amount of people who try implementing a 4-2-3-1 with the three AM strata and 2 in the midfield strata, -who have then been told it is better to do it as a 4-4-1-1 or any other variation where the positions are more withdrawn, has been numerous. Apparently the formation is the defensive shape, though I didn't actually know that until I read it on the Tactics forum, just as I didn't realise the AMR/L positions were more 'forwards' than they were midfielders.

Bear in mind, when people are watching Sky or other football on television, that is the formation that is being displayed, with AM position players, or at least that is the impression that is being given. Also bear in mind that depending on your culture, people aren't much inclined in some nations to discuss tactics in the real world at anything more than what Alan Shearer can put out on Match of the Day. Even people from more "cultured" footballing nations sometimes query the descriptions of the more exotic player roles, either rightly or wrongly.

So that's problem number one. Football in the real world operates on a different language or interpretion than football as a concept in football manager does, or rather, a better way is to say that football in the real world often operates on a more simplistic approach than the FM world does, because the audience isn't expected to be savvy about the single or double pivot, trequartisas and enganches, the WM or any other exotic formation.

The second problem then becomes one of implementing information from that world to the FM world, where the tactical descriptions sometimes don't add up to what is being fed back to the person's real world preconceptions. If you happen to be one of those who manage to throw things together and go on to have success, that's fine. The problem I think, is where people stop and start to wonder how to actually use the tools they have to their full abilities. Then, they're faced with either picking the system up rather easily, or if they struggle, they have to deal with concepts or ideas that are alien to them. There's a disconnect somewhere.

Nothing annoys me more than seeing some advisor's say that the game is 'easy' and that tactics is easy and people just make it hard for themselves. I don't buy that, even if I feel the game can be quite easy, particularly in terms of over-achievement, I don't find picking up the tactics or concepts easy at all, maybe because I'm a savage English brute, who loves the romantic idea of the dead 'number 10' player in the hole, and direct wingplaying 4-4-2's, whatever it is, the concept isn't clear or simple for me, and it isn't for other either. I find Law easy to understand and read, I find FOOTBALL Laws easy as well, yet you'd be unsurprised at how many people struggle on both counts to pick either up in a professional or amateur capacity - in fact you would argue in the real world, only a select few people would understand those elements in any great depth, that's why there are so few lawyers and referees around the world. It is also why there are so few good/great managers out there.

As I'm in danger of losing my point, I'll just close with this. I feel, this argument over tactics reminds me of the older arguments back in the slider days, where it was a constant debate over whether the game is a 'game' for enjoyment or a 'simulation' for the "hardcore" crowd. I think FM has always had to walk a difficult tightrope in keeping itself accessible to both, and personally I think FM needs to re-direct resources towards making the game more accessible and more in line with those who may not grasp tactics either in the FM world or the real world (or both), because there's a lot of those types of players, either new, clueless, or competent but struggling with 'translation' who do deserve, in my view, to be able to dive in and get to grips with the systems and such where getting out of the game is a last resort (i.e. all the information is in-game, without the need for additional information outside of it.) - That might be a pipe dream "ideal world" though, but steps can be taken to get there!

[BharadwajNaidu]

The game is good. I had the 14, didnt buy 15 but bought the 16.

Is anyone else having problem with too much I am not getting first team football talk . I had one player complaining about it in preseason and it continued even when he was playing more than half of my matches as a starter (he was playing atleast once per week). And if I have only one match in 2 weeks another player comes and does the same out of nowhere.

And i hoped they changed the press conference remarks but they seem exactly the same. That Opposition coach praises you , you say he is a nice guy and the next response about inferiority complex comes up, it's kinda irritating. I leave my pre and post match conferences to my assistant but this one I cant avoid.

And also if I try and declare interest in transfer in a player , nothing happens like in the previous versions where an Inbox message comes. Is that for everyone or have they changed it so it does not happen.

[HUNT3R]

Is anyone else having problem with too much I am not getting first team football talk . I had one player complaining about it in preseason and it continued even when he was playing more than half of my matches as a starter (he was playing atleast once per week). And if I have only one match in 2 weeks another player comes and does the same out of nowhere.

You'll need to pay attention to the player's squad status and his ability compared to the player who is starting ahead of him.

Also, keep in mind that players will come to you to ask for more playing time, at times. The crucial thing is whether you can talk them round if they do not have a strong case. If the player has a good personality, you should then be able to talk him round to accept things as they are.

[luka_zg]

I've been playing this game for a very long time, and I have to say this is the least fun game SI have ever made. Starting with complete mess of tactic creator where you have to read every guide here to get the basic understanding how stuff works anymore (and often how it works is the exact opposite of what the ingame description will tell you). Then you have AI who will relentlessly punish each and every mistake you make no matter how bad the AI's players might be. Low league teams making counter attacks fluid and precise like Real Madrid. Also, user team (and it's not just me who notice this) will need loads of chances to score no matter what. You can have 5 CCC's and a few half chances, and not be able to put the game to bed..most often leading 1-0 and praying the AI doesn't get their goal with 1 or 2 shots on target..because obviously they are super deadly and efficient.

Also wide attackers and wingbacks cuting inside and instead of passing to striker they will 99 times out of 100 shot from impossible angle and never ever score, and ME will classify those chances as CCC which they are obviously NOT.

Of course, some of you will dissmis this and say "it's your tactics", but I tend to draw this conclusions from 210 hours played in this game, and having experienced AI's deadly efficiency more than enough times to say that it's really killing the joy for me. I mean why pay for a player 50 million euros and watch him miss chance after chance, when you can apparently buy some no name english forward who will score every chance he gets playing for brilliant Brighton, whose players keep the ball better than Barcelona.

Rant over.

[Cougar2010]

I've been playing this game for a very long time, and I have to say this is the least fun game SI have ever made. Starting with complete mess of tactic creator where you have to read every guide here to get the basic understanding how stuff works anymore (and often how it works is the exact opposite of what the ingame description will tell you). Then you have AI who will relentlessly punish each and every mistake you make no matter how bad the AI's players might be. Low league teams making counter attacks fluid and precise like Real Madrid. Also, user team (and it's not just me who notice this) will need loads of chances to score no matter what. You can have 5 CCC's and a few half chances, and not be able to put the game to bed..most often leading 1-0 and praying the AI doesn't get their goal with 1 or 2 shots on target..because obviously they are super deadly and efficient.

Also wide attackers and wingbacks cuting inside and instead of passing to striker they will 99 times out of 100 shot from impossible angle and never ever score, and ME will classify those chances as CCC which they are obviously NOT.

Of course, some of you will dissmis this and say "it's your tactics", but I tend to draw this conclusions from 210 hours played in this game, and having experienced AI's deadly efficiency more than enough times to say that it's really killing the joy for me. I mean why pay for a player 50 million euros and watch him miss chance after chance, when you can apparently buy some no name english forward who will score every chance he gets playing for brilliant Brighton, whose players keep the ball better than Barcelona.

Rant over.

The bottom line is the ME is the same for everyone including AI teams.

Both you & the AI managers have access to the same options and are capable of doing the same things.

If the AI managers seem more clinical than your team then you need to look at why:

A) Perception - The only way to prove it one way or another is to take a season and calculate something like the ratio of shots to goals both for & against your team.

B) Tactics - You might not like it but its a fact, tactics aren't just about attacking you need to learn to defend as well. If you have a much worse goals to shots ratio then the AI teams then you need to decide if your conversion rate is low or is the AI teams conversion rate high against you or maybe a bit of both. Then you know which area you need to improve.

[luka_zg]

The bottom line is the ME is the same for everyone including AI teams.

Both you & the AI managers have access to the same options and are capable of doing the same things.

If the AI managers seem more clinical than your team then you need to look at why:

A) Perception - The only way to prove it one way or another is to take a season and calculate something like the ratio of shots to goals both for & against your team.

B) Tactics - You might not like it but its a fact, tactics aren't just about attacking you need to learn to defend as well. If you have a much worse goals to shots ratio then the AI teams then you need to decide if your conversion rate is low or is the AI teams conversion rate high against you or maybe a bit of both. Then you know which area you need to improve.

Which is classic response I knew I'd get.

Well, the game's way of telling you what the chance was like is or should be "clear cut chance" number and "half chance". So when I tell you that in 7 out of 10 games I will have more than 2 CCC's and more than 2 half chances versus AI who at the same time will have 1 CCC and the game will finish 2-1 for AI or 0-0 or I will win 1-0. Why would I need to look at my tactic when obviously I've had the better chances just my players have much harder to score than AI and that is a fact.

So yesterday I had a game against Valencia where I had 24 shots and 6 on target. Valencia had 7 shots with 4 on target. Valencia had 1 CCC. I had 5. So I went to prozone to see the shots and of that 24 shots ,7 was blocked and 2 were from outside the box. 15 shot from inside the box. 15. Two from corners, one header and 4 from impossible angle. So we have 8 shots left coming from very good positions inside the box with players blasting the ball wide or straight to keeper. How the hell is any of that my tactics fault??

If I have 5 ccc's and couple of half chances against a team that had 1 ccc I'd say my tactic worked quite OK, but hey..of course I will lose the game, because..why not?

[hluraven]

just my players have much harder to score than AI and that is a fact

I love made up facts that are the opposite of true. Try reading this http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/303143-Why-is-the-AI-so-much-better-at-finishing

But, bottom line, the ME doesn't even know which team is which, so any suggestion the AI and human team is treated differently is an instant nonsense. It's covered at length in the thread I linked, but it's mostly perception bias, combined with poor tactics.

[luka_zg]

I love made up facts that are the opposite of true. Try reading this http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/303143-Why-is-the-AI-so-much-better-at-finishing

But, bottom line, the ME doesn't even know which team is which, so any suggestion the AI and human team is treated differently is an instant nonsense. It's covered at length in the thread I linked, but it's mostly perception bias, combined with poor tactics.

Of course it is.

5 ccc's vs 1ccc. Result is 2-3. Poor tactics, perception bias. How yes no.

[spankie]

Of course it is.

5 ccc's vs 1ccc. Result is 2-3. Poor tactics, perception bias. How yes no.

So what are your tactics that you're so sure are perfect and not the cause of your problems? If you let us know then a fresh pair of eye might eb able to see if there is a problem with them.

[Cougar2010]

Which is classic response I knew I'd get.

Well, the game's way of telling you what the chance was like is or should be "clear cut chance" number and "half chance". So when I tell you that in 7 out of 10 games I will have more than 2 CCC's and more than 2 half chances versus AI who at the same time will have 1 CCC and the game will finish 2-1 for AI or 0-0 or I will win 1-0. Why would I need to look at my tactic when obviously I've had the better chances just my players have much harder to score than AI and that is a fact.

So yesterday I had a game against Valencia where I had 24 shots and 6 on target. Valencia had 7 shots with 4 on target. Valencia had 1 CCC. I had 5. So I went to prozone to see the shots and of that 24 shots ,7 was blocked and 2 were from outside the box. 15 shot from inside the box. 15. Two from corners, one header and 4 from impossible angle. So we have 8 shots left coming from very good positions inside the box with players blasting the ball wide or straight to keeper. How the hell is any of that my tactics fault??

If I have 5 ccc's and couple of half chances against a team that had 1 ccc I'd say my tactic worked quite OK, but hey..of course I will lose the game, because..why not?

I'll do you a deal.

Upload your save somewhere (One where you have played at least a season) and I'll even do all the maths for you.

Its not as good as you proving it to yourself but anything is better than you refusing to accept you are doing anything wrong.

[jc1]

I love made up facts that are the opposite of true. Try reading this http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/303143-Why-is-the-AI-so-much-better-at-finishing

But, bottom line, the ME doesn't even know which team is which, so any suggestion the AI and human team is treated differently is an instant nonsense. It's covered at length in the thread I linked, but it's mostly perception bias, combined with poor tactics.

I get so fed up of reading this every year, the ME is biased, the AI team know what I'm doing etc etc, I wish people would do more reading in the tactics forum before coming on here complaining about things. The fact that since release there is only 17 pages of feedback shows that this years game is a hell of a lot better that FM15 and deffo better than 13/14 says it all. I'm playing as Hibernian with a 4-3-3 narrow tactic with wingbacks, I sold one of my forwards in January for £350k, he scored 15 goals. My other strikers are scoring well, Cummings 20, Keatings 17, Handling 15 and Insall 11, I've won the league with 10 games to spare and undefeated so far. I've no real moans as I rotate all the time, squad harmony is very high, I got offered a contract extension already and my job is at the moment untouchable. This was done by reading forums, learning from mistakes on Beta prior to official release.

Yes there are little annoyances and tiny wee bugs but you'll never ever get it completely bug free, any bugs are not stopping me enjoying the game this year.

[luka_zg]

I'll do you a deal.

Upload your save somewhere (One where you have played at least a season) and I'll even do all the maths for you.

Its not as good as you proving it to yourself but anything is better than you refusing to accept you are doing anything wrong.

You just missed the whole point of my rant.

I am not saying I'm not doing anything wrong. It's not that I'm losing all the time. I win more than I lose. It's just frustrating game where the AI will exploit each and every mistake the user makes, disregarding completely the individual quality of players.

Do you think that Luis enrique is some master tactician? I personally do not. But he has superb players and three best strikers in the world. He can make wrong decisions now and than but due to his players quality they will win neverthless. Whereas on FM16 that is totally not the case. Because AI ,no matter the gulf in quality, will always be at least on equal terms(due to counter attacking is made to be killer option and that every low league team can look like Madrid when on the counter) no matter what kind of players it has. And that is what is frustrating me completely.

My non perfect tactics will get me more than enough chances to score, but for some reason my world class strikers will have problems to finish in most games. I can see the chances, I'm playing on key. If we remove the ridicilous impossible angle chances, others are more often than not, perfect chances. But not perfect enough for 50mil players apparently. On the other hand, I will se clinical finishing from my opponents from the same kind of chances.

No point discussing this further, I've read everything about FM tactics in countless threads here and I'm sure that I have a normal and sensible tactic made, for sure not perfect, but surely ok. But some things in this ME are really making me pissed.

[Cougar2010]

So basically you won't upload your save, you don't want to go to the trouble of working out the goals to shots ratio for both teams.

Quite honestly you just can't be arsed and if thats the case then stop whining about it. Why should we listen to you?

[jc1]

All I can see here is Valencia had 10 men behind the ball, your strikers were poor and when given the chance their strikers scored, nothing new here you see it all the time IRL, teams dominate, have tons of chances and get beat 1-0 by the only shot on target. You may have to work out how to break down hard to beat defences.

[luka_zg]

I get so fed up of reading this every year, the ME is biased, the AI team know what I'm doing etc etc, I wish people would do more reading in the tactics forum before coming on here complaining about things. The fact that since release there is only 17 pages of feedback shows that this years game is a hell of a lot better that FM15 and deffo better than 13/14 says it all. I'm playing as Hibernian with a 4-3-3 narrow tactic with wingbacks, I sold one of my forwards in January for £350k, he scored 15 goals. My other strikers are scoring well, Cummings 20, Keatings 17, Handling 15 and Insall 11, I've won the league with 10 games to spare and undefeated so far. I've no real moans as I rotate all the time, squad harmony is very high, I got offered a contract extension already and my job is at the moment untouchable. This was done by reading forums, learning from mistakes on Beta prior to official release.

Yes there are little annoyances and tiny wee bugs but you'll never ever get it completely bug free, any bugs are not stopping me enjoying the game this year.

Good for you. I've been offered contract extension three times. Board is very pleased with me and my job status is very secure. My main striker has been in top three scorers of the league in each of the three seasons I've played. I'm rotating, squad harmony is very good. No complaints. I'm in the quaterfinals of FA cup and Europa league and in a fight for top4 spot in the league. I have second best defensive record after Arsenal after 27 games played, and 5th best scoring record.

None of that has anything to do with all that I've said before.

[jc1]

Good for you. I've been offered contract extension three times. Board is very pleased with me and my job status is very secure. My main striker has been in top three scorers of the league in each of the three seasons I've played. I'm rotating, squad harmony is very good. No complaints. I'm in the quaterfinals of FA cup and Europa league and in a fight for top4 spot in the league. I have second best defensive record after Arsenal after 27 games played, and 5th best scoring record.

None of that has anything to do with all that I've said before.

But you're moaning about 1 game and criticising the ME for biased against you in a match, you can't win every game 5-0, there will be games where you dominate and either draw or get beat, if this only happens the odd time, why the hell are you complaining, look at your tactics and find out, or just accept that it happens now and then.

[Kazza]

Just another question. I have been playing FM16 for over a week now with a hybrid tactic as I read that there was an issue with certain tactics and that exploiting the flanks was an "actual exploit"

Can you guys tell me if that is fixed or is it just part of some of the players views? I want to start to experiment with my own tactics but do not want to start losing games in this save just yet due to a poor tactic! Is there some definite no no's re tactics, because of exploits or bugs outwith the normal understanding of what tactic works with what.

Hope that is clear.

Cheers

[Loversleaper]

Just another question. I have been playing FM16 for over a week now with a hybrid tactic as I read that there was an issue with certain tactics and that exploiting the flanks was an "actual exploit"

Can you guys tell me if that is fixed or is it just part of some of the players views? I want to start to experiment with my own tactics but do not want to start losing games in this save just yet due to a poor tactic! Is there some definite no no's re tactics, because of exploits or bugs outwith the normal understanding of what tactic works with what.

Hope that is clear.

Cheers

Most of the tactics I have seen posted on the forums have either one or both fullbacks set to run forward often (wingback or fullback on attacking duty) - which is kind of strange. I grasp the aspect of wanting to have your fullback get forward, but there is a time and place for everything. People are under the assumption that you have to have him instructed to get forward to actually have him run forward, but that is really not the case. Having a fullback on support duty still gets forward, he might do so at better times than the guy just instructed to bomb forward all the time - the guy bombing forward all the time eventually gets caught out. You can instruct your fullbacks/wing backs to go forward often, but usually it requires that you are playing against a very defensive opponent and you need to get more players forward to break down their stubborn defense.

When defending deep, you might want to turn off forward runs all together so not to leave your team open to attacks. If you give your wide play some thought, I am sure that people should be able to handle the 'wide threat' better and not constantly leave themselves open out there by instructing the team to do so...