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England - Euro 2016 Thread

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Australia was exactly the same as last night. Only went to 4-3-3 in the second half.

well screw that then, if that's how Roy is playing the diamond then I don't want to see that rubbish. like i said before hopefully he was just experimenting. it should be simple really but there you go

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And it's why I keep saying Kane and Vardy doesn't work..

Apart from it working against the World Cup holders of course

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Apart from it working against the World Cup holders of course

it will work. in a proper front two. like in the diamond we've played before that didn't involve centre forwards going out to the touchline to defend. that's whats confusing me now about these recent friendlies, we didn't see that nonsense before so why now?

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Apart from it working against the World Cup holders of course

For what, 15 mins? I swear this is how Hodgson thinks as well. The evidence since suggests otherwise. A good period in a game doesn't automatically mean it's a massive success.

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Apart from it working against the World Cup holders of course

Hard to say how well it worked when Vardy only played the last 20 minutes. But I reckon it's a system that works better against a bigger team. It is less likely to work up against a team that will set out to defend against us and hit on the counter, which is likely to be all 3 group games.

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For what, 15 mins? I swear this is how Hodgson thinks as well. The evidence since suggests otherwise. A good period in a game doesn't automatically mean it's a massive success.

and when he switched to 4-4-2 against Turkey, with Vardy getting the winner

not sure what your point is here, Vardy came on alongside Kane and the game completely changed, they both started against Turkey and did ok until he went 4-4-2 and Vardy got way more into the game. They haven't exactly had a huge amount of game time together, so how you're saying they don't work together is just baffling

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Personally I think Kane and Vardy together could work, but not with Rooney as well. In both the Turkey and Germany games that you have referred to, Rooney didn't play.

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Rooney doesn't fit into our best team. Unfortunately he's undroppable so we won't be anywhere near our best and we'll struggle. Prove me wrong Roy.

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Rooney doesn't fit into our best team. Unfortunately he's undroppable so we won't be anywhere near our best and we'll struggle. Prove me wrong Roy.

The current issues have very little to do with Rooney. If Roy keeps asking the strikers to play that wide and track back that deep, we are going to have real issues.

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The current issues have very little to do with Rooney. If Roy keeps asking the strikers to play that wide and track back that deep, we are going to have real issues.

Because he wants Rooney to play centrally. He's forced Vardy, Kane and Alli out of position so Rooney can play the central attacking role.

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The current issues have very little to do with Rooney. If Roy keeps asking the strikers to play that wide and track back that deep, we are going to have real issues.

It has everything to do with Rooney and Roy's obsession with shoehorning him into the side

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The current issues have everything to do with Rooney, his inclusion hurts the shape of this side no matter where you put him.

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Because he wants Rooney to play centrally. He's forced Vardy, Kane and Alli out of position so Rooney can play the central attacking role.

Rooney, or indeed anyone playing as the 1, shouldn't force the strikers wide. It's a relatively simple basis of a 4-3-1-2/4-1-2-1-2.

Hodgson has openly said he sees all the forwards bar Kane as being able to play wide, not sure that stacks up in reality, nor does having them pull wide and track back on the defensive

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He's been fabulous, but I really hope Rooney, for everyone's sake, does a Shearer and retires after the tournament. He's still got a big part to play in the Euros I feel, but he's no longer the best player in any of positions he plays now. Hopefully he sees that now.

Experience counts for a lot though, watch him end up as the tournament's top striker.

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Exactly, as with any normal front two. And it's why I keep saying Kane and Vardy doesn't work. One of them has to look for space, and neither does it for their club. I know people keep saying Kane is a natural 10 or whatever, but nobody has seen him play this way, so it's pointless getting him to do it. And we know it isn't Vardy's best role either.

The front two needs to be one of Kane or Vardy. And alongside that one of Rooney or Sterling.

He's not done enough of Vardy starting central and then pulling into the channel if he needs space, he starts him much wider. Don't know if that is because he doesn't trust the full backs to cover the whole flank.

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Rooney, or indeed anyone playing as the 1, shouldn't force the strikers wide. It's a relatively simple basis of a 4-3-1-2/4-1-2-1-2.

Hodgson has openly said he sees all the forwards bar Kane as being able to play wide, not sure that stacks up in reality, nor does having them pull wide and track back on the defensive

But Hodgson isn't playing a conventional diamond. Because he's putting Rooney at the point. It might not be directly Rooney's fault but Hodgson wants him up the pitch, which splits the forwards and means they have to defend against the full backs. In reality when we're defending, Rooney should drop 10 yards and not be our furthest player forward and the 2 CM's between him and Dier should push a little bit wider with Rooney between them but slightly in front. Hodgson has got it all so wrong, he's got Kane and Vardy tracking back and Alli playing as a CM just to fit Rooney into his preferred position. Every man and his dog knows Alli is perfect fit for the top of the diamond and Kane and Vardy are better strikers.

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But Hodgson isn't playing a conventional diamond. Because he's putting Rooney at the point. It might not be directly Rooney's fault but Hodgson wants him up the pitch, which splits the forwards and means they have to defend against the full backs. In reality when we're defending, Rooney should drop 10 yards and not be our furthest player forward and the 2 CM's between him and Dier should push a little bit wider with Rooney between them but slightly in front. Hodgson has got it all so wrong, he's got Kane and Vardy tracking back and Alli playing as a CM just to fit Rooney into his preferred position. Every man and his dog knows Alli is perfect fit for the top of the diamond and Kane and Vardy are better strikers.

Alli has been excellent as a cm breaking forwards, and running from deep. Which is where I would leave him, with Sterling at 10. Not sure him not playing 10 means he is out of position.

Hodgson has got it wrong, but even then you still don't even need to any of that to play Rooney or another 10 there, in fact Rooney is better off not being asked to try and push through, but hold position and arrive late, with is what the 10 should be doing. He wants him playing a hybrid role, and it doesn't work. That position needs to be a 10

Whether Rooney is the best or not is one discussion (he isn't) but the system doesn't even need to change for him to slot in. Hodgson is asking him to do more than he needs to, and making that role over complicated

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The current issues have everything to do with Rooney, his inclusion hurts the shape of this side no matter where you put him.

Systems don't win games though ;)

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Yeah Kane and Vardy ended up going wider and wider to accommodate Rooney.

Thats what i thought, he was gettng in their way. He looked more like a centre forward than a #10

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can't blame Rooney (and I am not at all his biggest fan) it's very clear they all followed Roy's tactics, I feel Roy's playing computer games with the squad.

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Systems don't win games though ;)

A football manager saying systems don't win games :lol: it's just hilarious. Laugh or cry.

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Players lose you games, not tactics. There’s so much crap talked about tactics by people who barely know how to win at dominoes.

Brian Clough ;)

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Brian Clough ;)

And Alex Ferguson is vehement that formations are a myth.

Let's be fair, Football Manager is as much a simulation of football management as Call of Duty is being in the military.

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Wait he actually said that? before I read the article I thought that was Dailymail taking the ****.

Jesus.

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Think back four years when we all thought Harry Redknapp was in the frame.

Would we be feeling more or less confident going into this with him in charge?

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Roy also said Rooney's best position was "anywhere", so that's him starting every game then, with the rest of team having to accomadate him.

Can't say Harry doesn't have a good record, albiet at club level, and an eye for players. Other than not qualifying he can't really have done worse.

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Whilst I don't really rate Redknapp at all as a club manager, I think there's a chance we might have done slightly better with him in tournaments just because he'd get way less pressure/criticism from the press and is usually quite good at the man management stuff. I mean it's not as if Hodgson has been a tactical genius anyway.

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Roy also said Rooney's best position was "anywhere", so that's him starting every game then, with the rest of team having to accomadate him.

Can't say Harry doesn't have a good record, albiet at club level, and an eye for players. Other than not qualifying he can't really have done worse.

Confirmed he was the first name on the team sheet as well.

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I don't mind Rooney being around or even starting but there just needs to be a realisation that he can take him off and give the team a different look during the game, like 30-35 mins, if needed, not 10 minutes at the end too

I don't mind him being in the Quals for next World Cup either. Forget this 'building' it's a 2 year qualifying, you play the team that gets you points. Someone has to come along and barge Rooney out of his spot. I don't want to bin players for the sake of it but we know have some other attacking players that can stake a claim to a starting spot and give the team a different look and feel than Rooney being in there

Just hope he's not afraid to bring him off if it's not working out

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People have barged him out of his starting spot but Hodgson insists on picking him.

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How much does Hodgson get as England manager?

If you believe what you read online, he will be the highest paid manager at the Euro's getting an eye watering £5 million a year :eek:

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Yeah it's pretty hard to barge Rooney out of his spot when Roy is convinced he has to shoe horn him in the team out of position.

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People have barged him out of his starting spot but Hodgson insists on picking him.

People wanted Rooney out but we didn't really have the guys or the depth but now we do

Previously, I'd not be rushing Rooney out the team but I think we're in a place now where we can legit do it but Hodgson seems to be going the other way. If he's determined to start him I just hope he doesn't shy away from taking him off if things aren't going well

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I don't mind him being in the Quals for next World Cup either. Forget this 'building' it's a 2 year qualifying, you play the team that gets you points.

England's first match is (once again) the likely group decider and a 6-pointer, and Rooney's specialty is scoring against naff teams.

If all goes to plan, it'll be a repeat of 2016 qualifying where it's basically a load of competitive friendlies. If England beat Slovakia and Slovenia away (again) and don't choke at home to Scotland in the first 4 matches, England will be top and beating the likes of Malta and Lithuania (again) while Slovenia, Slovakia and maybe Scotland take points off each other, increasing England's lead.

So after just a few matches Roy can 'build' what he likes, but that didn't happen last time. He played Hart and Rooney and all the other names every match, even against San Marino and Estonia, that's where all Rooney's goals come from. Same selection routine in all the friendlies too, which made them pointless. He seems petrified of losing and has so little faith in others that he won't rest or try other players even when 3-0 up an hour in against San Marino. Other managers would've killed for a year of 'unofficial friendlies'.

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Whilst I don't really rate Redknapp at all as a club manager, I think there's a chance we might have done slightly better with him in tournaments just because he'd get way less pressure/criticism from the press and is usually quite good at the man management stuff.

You're probably right about the man management, but he'd only get less pressure and criticism until it all started going wrong, then it doesn't matter how much of a pal he is, they would turn on him. It might take a little longer, but the press love building them up and knocking them down. They'd have his face photoshopped into a root vegetable before long.

England's first match is (once again) the likely group decider and a 6-pointer, and Rooney's specialty is scoring against naff teams.

If all goes to plan, it'll be a repeat of 2016 qualifying where it's basically a load of competitive friendlies. If England beat Slovakia and Slovenia away (again) and don't choke at home to Scotland in the first 4 matches, England will be top and beating the likes of Malta and Lithuania (again) while Slovenia, Slovakia and maybe Scotland take points off each other, increasing England's lead.

So after just a few matches Roy can 'build' what he likes, but that didn't happen last time. He played Hart and Rooney and all the other names every match, even against San Marino and Estonia, that's where all Rooney's goals come from. Same selection routine in all the friendlies too, which made them pointless. He seems petrified of losing and has so little faith in others that he won't rest or try other players even when 3-0 up an hour in against San Marino. Other managers would've killed for a year of 'unofficial friendlies'.

I wouldn't worry. I expect you to be free and clear at the top by the end of the year unless, like you say, they choke at Wembley against Scotland. Slovakia, Slovenia and Scotland are probably going to ebb and flow around the same level, with England only coming close to that if they dip themselves.

But essentially, that's England's eternal problem the past few campaigns. They're a comfortable pot one side, and have had some decent luck in draws. The combination of both means that their qualifying groups are pretty weak in comparison to others, and they breeze through them. That boosts hope in some, but when it comes to the tournament, they essentially play to type, as one of the second tier nations that could go to the semis, could go out in the groups, but usually settle somewhere in between. That gives any manager a tough job. Has been the same for previous managers, and will be for future ones.

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I think a lot of our failures are a mental thing. I'd bet that our record VS the top teams should be a lot better than it is, even if we're not an absolute top side ourselves.

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I think a lot of our failures are a mental thing. I'd bet that our record VS the top teams should be a lot better than it is, even if we're not an absolute top side ourselves.

This is why I feel we should always be trying to play the best teams in friendly games. It's not the same obviously, but at least we are constantly pitting ourselves who are, on paper at least, stronger than us

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This is why I feel we should always be trying to play the best teams in friendly games. It's not the same obviously, but at least we are constantly pitting ourselves who are, on paper at least, stronger than us

Well, to be fair that's exactly what England have been doing.

We've had friendlies against Spain, Germany, Holland, Italy, France and Portugal over the past 2 years or so. Turkey aren't exactly roll overs and it's not that long ago Australia turned us over at home. Aside from Argentina, Brazil and the likes of Uruguay, not sure who else we could have played.

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I think a lot of our failures are a mental thing. I'd bet that our record VS the top teams should be a lot better than it is, even if we're not an absolute top side ourselves.

It's definitely mental, we have lost these key 1/4 finals enough that it is ingrained into the mind. The old saying 'the harder the shell, the softer the inside' applies to us. I get sick of hearing 'this time it will be different' and 'we are more prepared' etc they don't actually believe these things but they just say them. If I heard Gerard talking about 'we have to do better' one more freaking time ... don't tell us, just do better

Just a group of flubbering nonsense that can't handle the slightest bit of pressure or expectation, it's not the fans or the media it's their own pressure and expectation of theirselves, I think

Penalties is also ingrained in their minds. Guys, we're never winning one again, ok. Unless we get someone like Northern Ireland or Norway in one that we feel superior too. We are so used to losing these that the excuse is in-built. We love to celebrate failure, the valiant 4th placed finish just missing out on a bronze. With penalties it's "well, at least he took one" ... feck that rubbish, not 'at least he took one' it's a penalty, it's not a lottery, you're shooting from 12 yards you bunch of spanners!!

It's like the 4x100 metres runners at the Olympics and Worlds, how many dropped batons? It's in their heads too, the GB team have a history of dropped batons and lo and behold there's another and another. Penalties are the same but who's the brave guy gonna be that 'at least he took one' cause sure are as **** won't be keeping their composure

You watch shoot outs and teams are planting them in the top corner, putting them inside the post and yes, you see the mug, the guy that fluffs it with a weak penalty but I have never seen as many poor shoot out pens as our lot, not one poor pen amongst the rest but the lot of them are all over the place!

[/rant over] :D

* we are soooooo going out on pens, aren't we - Italy in 1/4 finals?

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I think it is in their heads, but you need more than that. The players and the approach over the past twenty odd years have just not been good enough to achieve more than they have. The reason it's in their heads is because people keep telling them they're great, they fail because they aren't, then they say "we need to do better" because people keep telling they're great again.

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I really don't think anyone has been telling any of them great for absolute ages

It's just more of shifting of responsibility, those poor players can't be responsible for being **** it's cause people told them they were good. The entire squad - rubbish, they're mental pygmies

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Individuals are scared to make a mistake, more so since Southgate in 96 and the TV advert with the bag over his head. Player think "I don't want to be ridiculed by the public, canno afford to miss this penalty". It's so ingrained into their minds that they don't even think "If we win, we'll be forever remembered like the 66 team."

It's not just penalties. Our players are scared to try something different, something special, in case it doesn't come off and they get blamed. Other countries seem to encourage players to produce individual skill but English football tries to suppress it.

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I really don't think anyone has been telling any of them great for absolute ages
What :D I've had to sit through two decades of inane ******** from the media about how great XYZ is because he just scored a bicycle kick against Wigan or signed a new shampoo deal, or something. Am I the only one to be subjected to this hyperbole? I feel like I'm in Clockwork Orange at times. Granted, it's dropped off in the last few years.

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