Bertie BG

Football Manager 2012 Announced!

847 posts in this topic

I've been on a 3 year hiatus from FM and now really looking forward to getting back. Most excited about the manage anywhere option, as it would be easy to spice up a long game by switching to a new country.

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Still no sign of the magic phrases that would restoke my love:

"A complete overhaul of youth development"
"A complete overhaul of training and player development"
"A complete overhaul of scouting"
"A complete overhaul of AI squad management"

But happy to see tone, been arguing for that for a while. Hopefully see it in Press Conferences soon too?

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[quote name='0gris']The main point is though that you can out-perform the AI at team building even if you have no idea of what you're doing for the most part. Just follow the scouting advice in backroom advice and you're pretty much set.[/QUOTE]

Yes its an aid, thats the point, if you want a tougher task dont use the advice, and dont scour the forums for good buys or killer tactics.

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[quote name='tigerhgrrrrrr']Yes its an aid, thats the point, if you want a tougher task dont use the advice, and dont scour the forums for good buys or killer tactics.[/QUOTE]

Why should you not use the advice its part of the game. The game should be improved to make the AI tougher to beat not dont use something to make it harder when you are trying to replicate reality by speaking to your staff.

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[quote name='BiggusD']Yes, of course. IF he did everything right with Portsmouth, it may have taken a few seasons to win everything because doing everything right doesn't necessarily mean that you win all your matches. There is this thing called player quality, and this other thing called club/league reputation, not to mention finances - that would prevent you from signing the world's best players immediately. However, if Mourinho took charge of Portsmouth instead of Chelsea back in the days, I am sure they wouldn't be bankrupt and in the Championship now. Why? Because the guy makes a real difference!

In FM11.3, the only manager making a real difference in the long term is you.

I and many others demand competition in single-player games, especially long-term ones.

The only way SI can provide this, is by ensuring that the AI:

A. Sign players that strengthens their team either immediately or in the long term, or both
B. Deploys their tactic in a way that maximizes the ability of their players
C. Develops youngsters by giving them 1st team experience, and by making sure that the club's coach and training facility setup is as good as it can get
D. Ensures that the squad is deep enough in all positions to get through a long and hard season
E. Gets rid of players that have no future at the club
F. Follows a long-term plan for world domimation, just like you (you are held back by the board's financial awareness and so should they)
G. Maximizes the outcome of player contract negotiations, to the best of their current ability
H. Handles the "morale engine" to the best of their ability - meaning that good managers shouldn't have problems motivating their team... just like with human players[/QUOTE]

Yes i would agree, the AI does make some naff signings. Maybe more AI manager charachter could shine through, that could achieve the same thing.

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[quote name='Erimus1876']Ok point taken. I didn't mean it to come across as 'relatively hard'. My response was to someone who trotted out the generic reply "don't manage a good team". Thats the standard reply from someone who has no idea of a particular flaw in the game (i.e. poor AI team-building logic) and someone who repeats it without even thinking, or knowing what they're talking about. Its effectively a cop out, and lets SI off the hook imho so this particular flaw never gets looked at by SI when developing their next game (or so it seems). Hopefully this year will be different SI?

At the end of the day the difficulty level will always be the abilty of the user. However some crucial aspects of the game do need looking at and have done for some time. AI clubs stagnate quickly and soon get left behind because of their poor AI team building logic. Thats it in a nutshell. BiggusD's reply is spot on.[/QUOTE]

Fair enough. I did miss a bit the "team building" issue as you meant it, apologies for that. Overall I feel there should be a broader span of AI manager ability then maybe. More "focussed" at the top, more erratic or liable to mistakes at lower levels perhaps, but if Prem managers are all going to be little virtual Jose's I need a bag of new Manager assisting tools to help me along! (all optional of course).

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Alot of people are alking about AI squad building and I have to agree that it is extremely important to improve this if possible. with the introduction of being able to add new leagues anytime more people are likely to play long term games, so the squad building abilities of the AI in the future need to be up to scratch. Im sure this is very difficult to code though, a few tweaks one way or the other could produce iether poor squad management or brilliant squad management so its a delicate balance to strike.

I hope that there is some indication from SI that this has been worked on and I believe a little explanation from them in the future as to how they have imporved may also eleviate (sp?) some peoples fears.

I just find that when I play a long term game, I know that if I stick with a club long enough, Im eventually going to have the best squad in my league and I'll ultimately win that league, and Im not that good at this game. I hope that this is something that Miles touches on in his Blogs (if there are any this year!).

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[quote name='timmy']We know the SI strikers can score so instead of videos of goals scored, they should perhaps put up videos of defenders making good intelligent tackles![/QUOTE]

We will be doing one of those aswell. And one for good saves. Within the next few weeks.

[quote name='S o l o']Mm, I have a question. If I have a team ie "Abba", and a young player, say "Mark" (18 years old), in a "regular game" he would probably improve his skills, but what would happen if I would add his team's championship after 2 years of game? I would have Mark with his 18 year old skills or there's a chance that they're improved? The same question it's possibile for players who are older, near the end of their careers, will they have worse skills? Or also, could they be already retired?[/QUOTE]

I think I answered this above, but in case I wasn't clear, the players in the squad at the starting database point are "simmed" to get to where they would be in your game time. Or released if they aren't good enough and their contracts have run out.

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I don't know if i'll get a response, but is there an advantage to starting the game initially and loading up 20 playable nations, as opposed to loading a different nation up as you play through the game?

Player-wise i mean, would i be lacking certain players in the league if i hadn't loaded it from the start? Or would i maybe be lacking regens in that certain league?

Thanks

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Really like the idea of being able to add and remove leagues. Will probably start the game on my current laptop which I try not to overload with huge amounts of leagues but looking to buy a new laptop sometime early next year. This feature will be a really good thing if it works well enough.

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[quote name='Miles Jacobson']I think I answered this above, but in case I wasn't clear, the players in the squad at the starting database point are "simmed" to get to where they would be in your game time. Or released if they aren't good enough and their contracts have run out.[/QUOTE]

I'm going to assume regens are going to show up too? I mean, if I add a league 10 seasons into the game, surely there's going to be a lot of 16 to 26 year old regens suddenly showing up in a few of those clubs? As they would've appeared during that time if the league had been active.

I'm also curious as to what happens when removing leagues. Do fringe players in those league's clubs disappear? It perhaps makes more sense to not remove players, but then keep adding and removing leagues over the seasons and the database is going to grow exponentially!

Anyway, I think this is a very handy feature, and can imagine it occupied you guys for a very long time at the office, not to mention giving more than a few headaches. It's a new reason for me not to buy the game until the final patch comes out tho, I can imagine it's going to open up a huge potential for bugs inevitably. As for the other features, I am a little underwhelmed to be honest, the match engine's looks don't seem to have been improved as much as I expected, the interface improvements I like a lot but aren't a key feature, the conversation "tone" thing seems more a nuisance than anything to me. But I expect more things to come up in the next few months, and I understand that FM is so evolved now it's very hard to picture a huge new thing coming up without messing up the gameplay.

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Great news! Looking forward to it already, especially the scouting improvements, and the "tone" aspect. Also glad to see the "manage anywhere, anytime" being included at last!! :D

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I hope the scouting feature gets really fleshed out.

And also it would be great if you can make sure the own player's report tab actually contains a lot more helpful information that gets more and more detailed as the player spends more time with the club.

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Looking forward to further details on the game.

It might be premature, but not too excited about the revised interaction system. It just sounds like more annoying mouse-clicking.

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Looks like the font has been changed. :( I really like the font on FM11. Other than that, everything looks brilliant!

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? idk why im the only one thats complaining about this, Idk why people want the game to be as easy as it was on fm2011, i see LOTS of people just achieving so easily during the years , i not saying thats a bad thing but i want it to be more of a challenge Long term and i want the computer to be smarter and make the right transfers and things, why do i have to be a team in the lowest team to make the game "hard", and even if i become a team from the lowest league in about 5 years into the game , the A.I becomes stupid and i tend to promote easy

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All I want is a better match engine and more options for tactics.

Central defenders pull wide and DM comes deep for buildup?
3 Man defence stretches wide when on the ball and narrow when off the ball.
Option for wide (strikers)/midfielders/wingbacks to move central without ball (bielsa style).
Central defender moves into DM position when on the ball (barca style).
etc

Looks like match engine is only getting graphical upgrade.. very disappointing

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[quote name='pezza1']Alot of people are alking about AI squad building and I have to agree that it is extremely important to improve this if possible. with the introduction of being able to add new leagues anytime more people are likely to play long term games, so the squad building abilities of the AI in the future need to be up to scratch. Im sure this is very difficult to code though, a few tweaks one way or the other could produce iether poor squad management or brilliant squad management so its a delicate balance to strike.

I hope that there is some indication from SI that this has been worked on and I believe a little explanation from them in the future as to how they have imporved may also eleviate (sp?) some peoples fears.

I just find that when I play a long term game, I know that if I stick with a club long enough, Im eventually going to have the best squad in my league and I'll ultimately win that league, and Im not that good at this game. I hope that this is something that Miles touches on in his Blogs (if there are any this year!).[/QUOTE]

They won't be calming any fears because it's not something that will have improved within 6mths. It'll take an overhaul or at least a big evolution in their AI to improve this (vital) aspect of the game. If it were so easy, they would have done it by now and there would be no issues around poor transfer activity, ridiculous managerial appointments and other things you have mentioned.

[quote name='fmobande']?[B] idk why im the only one thats complaining about this[/B], Idk why people want the game to be as easy as it was on fm2011, i see LOTS of people just achieving so easily during the years , i not saying thats a bad thing but i want it to be more of a challenge Long term and i want the computer to be smarter and make the right transfers and things, why do i have to be a team in the lowest team to make the game "hard", and even if i become a team from the lowest league in about 5 years into the game , the A.I becomes stupid and i tend to promote easy[/QUOTE]

[I]Clearly[/I] you are not the only one that's complaining about it. Many people agree exactly with what you've written.

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Really like the add/remove leagues feature. I know its work in progress but the ME looks pretty much the same as f11 so by the time the game comes out hopefully it`ll be a lot better. I also hope that players stop running towards the corner flag when running at goal. that is very annoying to see your player on what looks like a one on one head there. That has happened on every version of fm so not holding my breathe on that changing.

One thing i`d really like to see is player instructions for each player. So if you bring one on, you don`t have to change your tactics to suit him. Would make things a lot easier.

Another feature that needs improving is touchline instructions. At the moment if your 1:0 down with 10 mins left. You tell your players to attack nothing happens. they just pass the ball around with no sense of urgency.

Lets hope this time fm is playable out of the box and we don`t need to wait until the 3rd patch.

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The announcement of the news for fm2012 is not at all what I expected or what many fans awaited despite some very interesting points
I really hope that they will announce major improvements in early September and will be more in our expectations:
- Management of the youngsters( 12 years old, 14 etc... )
- Youth Center more developed and more modernly polished
- Press conferences improved and and more modernly polished
- The press improved and more modernly polished
- The match preparation realistic (more deep like tactical)
- Above TRAINING more daily (schedule) more professional exercises (there are 100 in reality) or 3D (but that I can just dream!)

Other than that, I can not wait to hear the rest of the 750 new features !

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[quote name='Thom-Spurs85'][B][COLOR="#008000"]They won't be calming any fears because it's not something that will have improved within 6mths.[/COLOR][/B] It'll take an overhaul or at least a big evolution in their AI to improve this (vital) aspect of the game. If it were so easy, they would have done it by now and there would be no issues around poor transfer activity, ridiculous managerial appointments and other things you have mentioned.



[I]Clearly[/I] you are not the only one that's complaining about it. Many people agree exactly with what you've written.[/QUOTE]


But its been a lot longer than just 6 months. People have been asking for this to be looked at for at least two and a half years. Instead SI give us brand new features and don't fix or overhaul the poor AI squad building at all. They don't even talk about it either. Its seems to be a taboo subject to them - a don't mention it and people will forget about it type thing.... and this strategy works because you don't notice how poor the AI squad building is until you get into a long term save, and I'd hazard a guess most players don't play long-term so never even realise this flaw exists (you can tell the ones, they regurgitate the '[I]don't manage a good team[/I]' line whenever anyone mentions how easy the game becomes). Anyway, you're right, it probably will take a massive overhaul to make it better or work properly, maybe thats why they don't talk about it. Or maybe they've finally worked on it and are going to suprise us this year? We can live in hope :D

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Why cant SI release the system specs. The reason i ask this, im disabled due to a work accident i had 3yrs ago and Football Manager keeps me sane during the day. Due to a limited income if the could release the specs then if i do need to upgrade pc i have a few months to sort this out. If its the same as FM11 then i would be delighted.

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[quote name='luton']Why cant SI release the system specs. The reason i ask this, im disabled due to a work accident i had 3yrs ago and Football Manager keeps me sane during the day. Due to a limited income if the could release the specs then if i do need to upgrade pc i have a few months to sort this out. If its the same as FM11 then i would be delighted.[/QUOTE]

It will probably be more or less the same as FM11. If FM11 worked on your pc without any problems then you should be fine.

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I too am desperate to see a VASTLY improved AI intelligence in the way they manage their squad, go after transfers and hopefully make it really hard for you to dominate- it is too easy and not so much fun at the moment imo when you reach the top. I want to see rich ambitious chairmen make it their mission to end your dominance and pour fortunes into getting the best talent around to do so- maybe even try to hire you for big money too, recognising the hue role the manager has in a clubs' success and trying to buy that in for his club, like Chelsea aiming to break Man Utd and formerly Arsenal dominance by hiring Mourinho/AVB.

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was hoping for new tactical features and 64 bit support.
liking the new crowds in the stadium and the tone conversation looks good though.

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There are some nice ideas and improvements there, but the key point for me will be when I see the impact of press conferences and team talks on players' performance. If you can ruin your team's morale by saying the wrong thing at the press conference like in FM 11, I'll be very disappointed. Fingers crossed.

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Do people realistically expect SI to care for the A.I.? They haven't fixed it for years and almost every A.I. area of the game is terrible.

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I Have a question - for those of us who enjoy the longer career saves working our way up from unemployed no-mark to champions of europe. Say im in the BSS managing Weston Super Mare and i'm having a blinder of a season. Now i only have the English leagues loaded - with the new league system and being able to choose which leagues are active - would a portugese team be able to come in and offer me a job or would i have to make the league playable and hope that someone comes in and offers me a job?

In an ideal world it would be great if this feature allowed for teams from other non-playable countries to offer us jobs if we are doing well etc and then become playable if we choose to accept the offer of a job!!!

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I'm presuming that when you add a league to being playable it doesn't become so until the end of the season for that division? If so how long does it take for all that infomation to be generated and players simmed up to date on that day?

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All sounds promising, but would of preferred hearing 'Will optimize Quad Core Processors and that 8 gig of Ram you hae'

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No match sounds on this years preview, I wonder if they have or are making an improvement on the same old plain default sounds.

Anyway the match engine looks good so far, keep up the good work SI. :thup:

I like the improvment on the crowd, especially in the Watford V Birmingham highlights.
With scarfs & flags / hand clapping and physically seeing the fans jump up from the seats when their team scores.
And with head shaking/ hands on head/ angry fist shake when the other team scores, looks very good indeed. :)

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I really like the [B]Manage Anywhere, Anytime[/B] feature, but I have a question

What about promotions and relegations? How will they be handled while the leagues are unplayable?

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[quote name='markyosullivan']Hoping that as league reputation increases - the prize money and sponsorship received will increase also![/QUOTE]

Hope so too. The old hard-coded argument might come into play tho...?

Any prospect of Euro and/or domestic league reshuffles some years into the future? Could be a tickbox option for tht to occur at a random time? Would like more variety in all of the interaction screens and the standard messages from staff. Two ways of saying the same thing is still more interssting than one way. Its only text, please SI make it even better! Cant wait for Patch 12.3 ;)

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[quote name='TSH']Do people realistically expect SI to care for the A.I.? They haven't fixed it for years and almost every A.I. area of the game is terrible.[/QUOTE] LOL Barcelona sold Messi to Man U and signed Jack Collison at CB in the 2nd season of my current save, enuff said

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Are the players going to do press conferences and say stupid things?

Are newgens going to have controversies in their lives that makes them harder to manage? (I realise you cant really go mad with the real players in case the little sweethearts get upset at their implied naughtiness and bring out their lawyers!) Whatever happened to 'has personal problems', lets expand on that?

Sorry if this has all been asked and answered elsewhere btw

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[quote name='mdbussen']Also, for what it's worth, the new font on the screenshots looks like a step backwards IMO :P[/QUOTE]

Not much improvement certainly, but I think SI maybe know the fan skinners can do a better job...? I would prefer the developers to concentrate on the hard c0oded aspects that cant be fiddled with by talented FM-geeks fr the benefit of the community, long may the uninspiring interface continue! :)

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[quote name='Dave C']Still no sign of the magic phrases that would restoke my love:

"A complete overhaul of youth development"
"A complete overhaul of training and player development"
"A complete overhaul of scouting"
"A complete overhaul of AI squad management"

But happy to see tone, been arguing for that for a while. Hopefully see it in Press Conferences soon too?[/QUOTE]

Couldnt agree more mate!!! Those are all the things i wanted to see overhauled. Id have thought at least one of those would've been mentioned with the first announcement, if they had been changed. Still, would be wrong to speculate this early on that nothing has been done about them but ive fallen out of love with FM over the past 3 or so years so as you say, i need something(s) to rekindle my love for the game!

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Could anyone see any difference between the Director cam and TV cam?

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[quote name='jagermeister']

I want the national anthems for the internationals matches. :thup:[/QUOTE]

wtf Worthless useless feature that will be interesting just one time.

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[quote name='tom_15390']Could anyone see any difference between the Director cam and TV cam?[/QUOTE]

I was unsure about that as well. But very happy with some of the other offerings. Looking forward to more announcements and additional features being outlined.

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[quote name='martvez']wtf Worthless useless feature that will be interesting just one time.[/QUOTE]

for you perhaps

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It seems pretty good, Liking the ideas of some of the new fetures the possiblity for my 2012 career save have really opened up with the mange anywhere anytime. Looking forward to seeing what effect Tone has on private chats, remeber when the feature was added last year players getting ofended to easily was a major problem when chatting with them. Hopfully it will makes the man management side of the game alot more fun now. The screens of the new team reports are looking like a massive improvement to the game as well.

Just out of intrest is there any plans to do a podcast in the build up to the release? Looking forward to listening to you Si guys chat about the game, football in genral and play abit of feature roulette,

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sounding great always look forward to the new releases!! love the idea of adding extra playable nations to a saved game great option:applause:

hoping there will be the option of loaning players as part of a transfer deal(eg take man u for example say I want to buy rodwell everton might be more likely to sell if they get cash and say a player like macheda on loan for a season)
you get your transfer budget given to you earlier than now so you can make offers before window opens
would love the ability to add edited db's to saved games as per the extra playable nations option......or a saved game editor(so you can keep up with transfers/sackings/injuries/takeovers etc etc without waiting for lenghty updates:thup:



perhaps to make things even more realistic in player interaction there should be an option where you can tell one of your players to tap up a targeted player whilst on international duty on your behalf;).......hows about being able to contact agents to do the same thing i.e. offering a contract before a deal has been done thus making a player request a transfer ...a bit naughty and i'm sure this is never done in real life:D

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[quote name='doubledutch']I too am desperate to see a VASTLY improved AI intelligence in the way they manage their squad, go after transfers and hopefully make it really hard for you to dominate- it is too easy and not so much fun at the moment imo when you reach the top. I want to see rich ambitious chairmen make it their mission to end your dominance and pour fortunes into getting the best talent around to do so- maybe even try to hire you for big money too, recognising the hue role the manager has in a clubs' success and trying to buy that in for his club, like Chelsea aiming to break Man Utd and formerly Arsenal dominance by hiring Mourinho/AVB.[/QUOTE]

Couldn't agree more.

I'll start dominating and Man Utd will try and break me by hiring Stuart Pearce.

Just ain't right.

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[quote name='doubledutch']I too am desperate to see a VASTLY improved AI intelligence in the way they manage their squad, go after transfers and hopefully make it really hard for you to dominate- it is too easy and not so much fun at the moment imo when you reach the top. I want to see rich ambitious chairmen make it their mission to end your dominance and pour fortunes into getting the best talent around to do so- maybe even try to hire you for big money too, recognising the hue role the manager has in a clubs' success and trying to buy that in for his club, like Chelsea aiming to break Man Utd and formerly Arsenal dominance by hiring Mourinho/AVB.[/QUOTE]

I agree perhaps there should be an option/sliding scale where teams are likely to spend their budgets...even get extra loans etc to buy top players..........as now it is unrealistic when you get an offer accepted at a reasonable price and teams sitting on £100m plus dont bother to bid/guzzump you

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I don't have Germany loaded in my FM11 game. But I just looked at a players history for Mainz. I'm in 2014. Looking at Mainz, it seems they have spent a couple of years in the Bundasliga and a couple in a blank league, so I assume Mainz has been relegated and promoted in the last couple of game years - if this is true I guess this means the number of teams from the non-playable leagues able to appear in Europe will be larger. I think in previous verison the teams always stayed in their non-playable division year in year out.

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