*Official* Football Manager 2022 Feedback Thread

[xLdRoN]

4 saat önce, JustinJJ said:

Has anyone noticed since the last patch that players condition drops far faster than pre-patch.

I thought at first it was my tactics but having a look at the opposition's fitness on the touchline tactics it's happening to them just as much.

It honestly feels like 3 subs are not enough right now because of this. This seems to be particularly a problem for wide players. 

Yep, my players are dying after the last update unfortunately. This problem needs to be fixed. 

[d d]

Just now, xLdRoN said:

Yep, my players are dying after the last update unfortunately. This problem needs to be fixed. 

I have not notice that to be honest, the opposition have had the same condition as me, maybe because we are playing the same tactics.

[Conquistadore]

As was the case with FM21 (don't remember previous versions); why do Japanese players speak Serbian (good), Slovenian (good) and Bosnian (good)?

[Toshevbgg]

I am having serious issues with my save games

Twice when saving and then going to cloud my game crashes or i close the laptop after save when I comeback i cant load. I had to replay 1/3 of a season and now another 5 games 

[XaW]

4 hours ago, Shirafune said:

Been metioned plenty of times but SI staff are ignoring it. When playing an online network game (and having the "use saturday and wednesday" schedule) all kickoffs are 15 minute apart and players do not play at the same hour like it's meant to be. It takes forever now to progress an online save..

I saw you posted in the bug tracker. Please report it in its own thread. Comments after an issue is resolved is not always easy to spot for SI. Perhaps someone else has reported it, but no harm in reporting it. Just more or less copy your post in there into a new bug in the bug tracker. 

[Neil Brock]

4 hours ago, Shirafune said:

Been metioned plenty of times but SI staff are ignoring it. When playing an online network game (and having the "use saturday and wednesday" schedule) all kickoffs are 15 minute apart and players do not play at the same hour like it's meant to be. It takes forever now to progress an online save..

We've replied to a number of threads in the bug tracker relating to this. 

It's been addressed in the public beta (details on how to access this below) and we'll look to put out a minor update to address this and some stability issues as soon as we're able to do so. 

Thanks.

Quote

The public-beta version of the game is opt-in and available via Steam by following the instruction below.

- Open Steam
- Go to 'Football Manager 2022' within your Steam Library
- Right-Click on the game and select 'Properties'
- Select ‘Betas’ from the left-hand side
- From the 'Select the beta you would like to opt into' dropdown, select 'public-beta'
- Click the ‘X’ in the top-right hand corner to close this popup.

This should now automatically begin downloading an update for the game. If it doesn’t do so, we’d recommend restarting Steam. Once the downloaded has completed, launch the game.

You will be fine to continue on this version until the next point we update the main retail version of the game, where both will become exactly the same.

 

[Neil Brock]

43 minutes ago, Toshevbgg said:

I am having serious issues with my save games

Twice when saving and then going to cloud my game crashes or i close the laptop after save when I comeback i cant load. I had to replay 1/3 of a season and now another 5 games 

Worth contacting support for assistance here - https://fm22.info/SupportTicket

[anagain]

A frequent UI issue

Am I the only one that has issues regarding selecting individual players to shout to during a match?

I'm refering to opening up the shout window during the match and choosing individual. I select players one at a time and quite often selecting another player will unselect the first.

Even using control this can be a finicky thing to do.

If I select a player he really should stay selected unless I deselect them.

 

The only reason I am not bugging this is because I am using a skin. I dont really want to switch skins mid match incase it causes problems.

 

[treble_yell_:-)]

Getting a bit tired of this merry-go-round every year where if A works, B needs to be broken only for fixing B to be the priority for next year which ultimately breaks A.

If the ME is at the point where it's limitations are becoming a problem and this dance of trying to tweak stuff while praying it doesn't break the ME elsewhere, then it's time for a new ground up ME.

[anagain]

1 hour ago, treble_yell_:-) said:

Getting a bit tired of this merry-go-round every year where if A works, B needs to be broken only for fixing B to be the priority for next year which ultimately breaks A.

If the ME is at the point where it's limitations are becoming a problem and this dance of trying to tweak stuff while praying it doesn't break the ME elsewhere, then it's time for a new ground up ME.

I suspect you need to fully understand the ME to post such startling suggestions as that.

As far as I am aware the match engine in FM is a work of many years. I've seen posts by SI where they tell of it being huge and so complex that it takes an experienced hand to even work on it.

You want them to throw that out and work on a whole new engine as if it's the easiest thing they could do?

What makes you think a brand new engine won't be just as difficult to fine tune as the current one.

I think it's more a case of working with the current one and modifying it to make changes easier but, unlike so many around here, I won't pretend to know the first thing about the full ins and outs of the match engine. I'm happy to accept that SI do their best and not make crazy demands.

Edited December 12, 2021 by anagain

[FM1000]

40 minutes ago, treble_yell_:-) said:

Getting a bit tired of this merry-go-round every year where if A works, B needs to be broken only for fixing B to be the priority for next year which ultimately breaks A.

If the ME is at the point where it's limitations are becoming a problem and this dance of trying to tweak stuff while praying it doesn't break the ME elsewhere, then it's time for a new ground up ME.

Yeah I think it's time for a ME 2.0, together with a graphic and animation update that does not look like a mobile game from 10 years ago.....

There are many little things that are part of modern football but are missing in the ME, like dribbling from a standing position or a duel with the defender, players making logical decisions at top level football and many more...

The ME should be at a state where you can watch 2-3 full matches of a player and able to guess that player's attributes....right now players play like this is a Dungeons and Dragons game, most important part seems to be a dice roll...

I am all for RNG but with top players and world class attributes the RNG needs toning down..

That being said the ME is a very complicated area, it's not as simple as a few lines of code so I doubt we will get such an update in the next 2-3 years...if at all..

Edited December 12, 2021 by FM1000

[teej9]

Played one full season post patch and for me, it just kind of ruined what I liked about the game. Took a fun fluid ME and turned it into a cross into shins simulator where it's just a contest of who makes the most atrocious mistake. Maybe it was too easy but I hadn't been cheesing it and hadn't even won a trophy yet. It was fun though, now everyone grinds out results like Burnley away to Stoke. It's still not hard, it's just bad football. I hate to say it but I don't like FM anymore. I hate the idea that having fun in a single player game is a bad thing, and that the ultimate goal of FM is now to match a spreadsheet of last year's statistics. It feels like the last three editions have just been a race to create the ugliest, most brutal version of football we can get too. Crosses work? Not anymore! Oh you liked playing through the middle? Watch this asshole! This is not the type of game in which you should be trying to combat what works, you should be able to try and play a style.  Just because a small group of players cheese the ME doesn't mean you should remove any ability to succeed with anything like that style.

 

It's not a hard game. I will win LaLiga tons of times with Depor, we'll win the CL, it's not hard, but it also isn't fun. 

 

No knock on SI or anyone, just a sad realization that FM isn't the game for me anymore after 13 editions. Take care all! 

Edited December 12, 2021 by teej9

[tarzanofmars]

6 minutes ago, teej9 said:

Played one full season post patch and for me, it just kind of ruined what I liked about the game. Took a fun fluid ME and turned it into a cross into shins simulator where it's just a contest of who makes the most atrocious mistake. Maybe it was too easy but I hadn't been cheesing it and hadn't even won a trophy yet. It was fun though, now everyone grinds out results like Burnley away to Stoke. It's still not hard, it's just bad football. I hate to say it but I don't like FM anymore. I hate the idea that having fun in a single player game is a bad thing, and that the ultimate goal of FM is now to match a spreadsheet of last year's statistics. It feels like the last three editions have just been a race to create the ugliest, most brutal version of football we can get too. Crosses work? Not anymore! Oh you liked playing through the middle? Watch this asshole! This is not the type of game in which you should be trying to combat what works, you should be able to try and play a style.  Just because a small group of players cheese the ME doesn't mean you should remove any ability to succeed with anything like that style.

 

It's not a hard game. I will win LaLiga tons of times with Depor, we'll win the CL, it's not hard, but it also isn't fun. 

 

No knock on SI or anyone, just a sad realization that FM isn't the game for me anymore after 13 editions. Take care all! 

I've been reflecting on this exact feeling ever since I realized there was no way possible to play the kind of football I want to play with FM. I'm at the top of the Bundesliga with Stuttgart playing an uber-direct no wide player formation. Yay.

They may release one more patch before they start with the "we are happy with the match engine" and it will ignore the elephant in the room.

I'm going to submit a request for a refund for the first time ever and move that 10GB graphics folder back to the external drive.

The ME looked great at first, then I realized it was icing on the same cake. No thanks.

[markoscouse]

All I'm gonna add in hopes of not getting this comment deleted as well is to vote with your wallets, stop pre-ordering the game or buying it as soon as it comes out, recent versions have shown that you're just gonna be frustrated until March and then you'll be too annoyed to even enjoy the game because that patch will fix like 30% of the issues and you're gonna have to wait for the next version.

I understand that people enjoy this game when it's super easy to exploit and have success with any club, it's why you should play single-player games, to have fun.

By reading this forum and various social media websites I notice way too many people straight up hate the ME and loads of things about the game and still keep playing it and buying it.

I hope one day we get a viable competitor or a change in strategy at SI and the game actually starts being properly maintained and tested before release.

[stevemc]

Couple of things I've noticed since the patch;

• Strikers missing a lot of one-on-ones compared to pre-patch (specifically being saved by the GK)

• Near post corners still work/powered

• Seen in increase in own goals (actually barely remember one pre-patch)

• Defenders aimlessly pushing opposition players in the box, giving away penalties (this is really frustrating)

• Daft, lowball, repetitive offers for average u18 players appear to have been tidied up

• I've never had a training report for my under18s, pre or post patch...

Edited December 12, 2021 by stevemc

[Sneaky Pete]

4 hours ago, anagain said:

As far as I am aware the match engine in FM is a work of many years. I've seen posts by SI where they tell of it being huge and so complex that it takes an experienced hand to even work on it.

Any programmer worth their salt will tell you that, if this is the case, then that in and of itself is a huge issue and warrants considering a refactor.

4 hours ago, anagain said:

As far as I am aware the match engine in FM is a work of many years. I've seen posts by SI where they tell of it being huge and so complex that it takes an experienced hand to even work on it.

You want them to throw that out and work on a whole new engine as if it's the easiest thing they could do?

Being a "work of many years" is generally not a positive quality, as far as code goes. What constitutes good programming has evolved exponentially over the last couple of decades. 15 years back we didn't have Git and "unit tests" were a city in Fukuoka Prefecture. By virtue of its age alone, irrespective of whether it was written by very competent programmers, much of any 10+ year old code is likely utter garbage that the programmers involved would kill to be allowed to refactor.

4 hours ago, anagain said:

What makes you think a brand new engine won't be just as difficult to fine tune as the current one.

Because, in the same vein as my response to another part of your post, it would be written according to modern standards and best practices, rather than being 10+ years of cobbled-together tech debt-infested FrankenCode. And just to make it clear, this isn't a hit job on SI or their ME team at all. I'm sure they're very good at their jobs, but that's just the nature of the business. Software products generally get harder and harder to maintain - let alone expand - with every year that passes since their inception because you inevitably accumulate tech debt, scope creep, etc.

Edit: And just to be clear, as with every other business, Sports Interactive faces the unenviable issue of "what makes for good code" and "what makes for good business" often being completely orthogonal to each other.

Edited December 13, 2021 by Sneaky Pete

[properdisco]

4 hours ago, teej9 said:

 This is not the type of game in which you should be trying to combat what works, you should be able to try and play a style.  Just because a small group of players cheese the ME doesn't mean you should remove any ability to succeed with anything like that style.

 

Agree with this bit. I feel too often SI have looked the nerf the "exploit" rather than improve the options most people don't choose because they don't lead to any success. Near post corners were frequently chosen because they were good, as opposed to other types which were bad - they nullified near post rather than improving the other types of corner. Obviously marking the keepers now is a good thing lol, but any time I see these awful far post corners I wonder if the wrong approach was taken. Same with stuff like 4-2-3-1 gegenpress. Yeah, it's slightly harder now, mainly in keeping everyone fit, but we're still in a situation where over half of the pre-set tactical styles feel unplayable. Genuinely I think there are 4 playable styles and 6 unplayable ones. This has to improve going forward.

[Sunstrikuuu]

I don't think anything is unplayable.  Some styles basically just require clicking all the related buttons to be, like, sorta at or slightly below expectations.  Others are workable but danged hard.  Building a deep-block positional defense system is one of those.  You can kinda do it, but boy, it's a lot easier to just throw bodies forward and win 3-1.

[Toshevbgg]

OK this is a big issue

Crying for playing time still needs revamp my season is about to go kaput because of this scenario

After boxing day you know the schedule in England its brutal. Whole my starting squad is near jaded and I get a lucky break. I have 2 league cup semi final games and a home fa cup games. Perfect scenario to play my reserves for 2/3 games straight

so I can regain fitness.  Problem is I played them against Aston Vila and if I play them again for the FA CUp game half my first team players are becoming unhappy (concerned playing time) if u I filed the reserves again for the third meaningless game I will kill the locker room. 

Starting squad players should be ok missing early FA CUp rounds and secondary cups l

Having STAR players when you are fighting for 2 cups + is impossible . You have to play them jaded ( ineffectual ) and ruin them with injuries. Problem is once they want new contracts for playing good u need to use EDITOR to fix their roles or you cant sustain it

Edited December 13, 2021 by Toshevbgg

[properdisco]

2 hours ago, Sunstrikuuu said:

I don't think anything is unplayable.  Some styles basically just require clicking all the related buttons to be, like, sorta at or slightly below expectations.  Others are workable but danged hard.  Building a deep-block positional defense system is one of those.  You can kinda do it, but boy, it's a lot easier to just throw bodies forward and win 3-1.

Yeah I mean 'unplayable' is a slight exaggeration, but if you want to either beat or meet most club's expectations the high line becomes the way. I've only really felt like a low lines thing can be tenable at lower leagues, where there's a different dynamic to a top league as running in behind is so much more effective there and anyone with physicals basically becomes Ronaldo, or messing around with like national U19 teams with no job expectations.

I guess you could make an argument that most successful teams who make forward progress generally play on the front foot but there are big exceptions out there, and it becomes the huge problem it is and feels really silly when you're a massive underdog in a match and playing a high-lined system against quick forwards somehow feels safer than the opposite. Ultimately I think the majority of players want to play stylish and on the front-foot anyway but for variety's sake, the defensive tactics shouldn't be quite so mystifying. Certainly their effectiveness needs to be looked at a lot. Every team with good defenders should be able to do it to some extent, every team has had to do it grind out a victory or avoid a defeat at some point. It can't be a guarantee of conceding 0 of course but at the moment the tactics play like an invite of lots of shots on your goal and do inscrutable things to the decision making of your attacking/supporting players. Countering is better in an attacking system than ones literally named after counter-attacking

Edited December 13, 2021 by properdisco

[Prepper_Jack]

*ring ring*

Bum: Hello?

Manager: Hi! I saw you were available for employment, and haven't had a job in 14 years. Are you interested?

Bum: Oh.. oh... thank God! I just ate the last rat in the city... I didn't know where I was going to find my next meal! You need a scout? I can scout for 5k a year, no problem!

Manager: Oh, no! We think you'd be a great fit as a head of our youth development program. Or, well, at least a possible affordable candidate, since with your unambitious nature and terrible skills you would be ruining the lives of many young people.

Bum: Ok, 85k a year.

Manager: Uh, look, I'm sorry, the board will only allow 35k

Bum: I ASKED YOU TO MAKE A SERIOUS OFFER, AND YOU FAILED TO DO SO. YOU FAILURE MCFAIL FACE! *click*

 

Perhaps it's just me, but this iteration of the game seems to have some questionable staff pricing guidelines.. at least for low tier professional and semi-pro outfits, who often have to settle for virtually useless staff, if they can even get them. Dozens and dozens of HoYD's and coaches just sitting around unemployed for all eternity because nobody who can afford them wants them. They don't even seem to ask for the fee waiver clause anymore, so they can stick around getting some pay while they look for better employment.

Edited December 13, 2021 by Prepper_Jack

[Thalo]

Started a journeyman save. Started with National A coaching qualifications, Sunday League playing experience. Applied for all jobs. Without an interview, I was offered multiple international youth level manager positions, and even the senior position for countries like New Guinea. The kicker is they were offering $6500 a week. None of the above seems very realistic to me. It would cost me about that much to go get my National A qualifications here in Australia, if I could then walk into a $300k job without an interview, I sure as hell would have done it by now.

[FM1000]

10 hours ago, Sneaky Pete said:

Any programmer worth their salt will tell you that, if this is the case, then that in and of itself is a huge issue and warrants considering a refactor.

Being a "work of many years" is generally not a positive quality, as far as code goes. What constitutes good programming has evolved exponentially over the last couple of decades. 15 years back we didn't have Git and "unit tests" were a city in Fukuoka Prefecture. By virtue of its age alone, irrespective of whether it was written by very competent programmers, much of any 10+ year old code is likely utter garbage that the programmers involved would kill to be allowed to refactor.

Because, in the same vein as my response to another part of your post, it would be written according to modern standards and best practices, rather than being 10+ years of cobbled-together tech debt-infested FrankenCode. And just to make it clear, this isn't a hit job on SI or their ME team at all. I'm sure they're very good at their jobs, but that's just the nature of the business. Software products generally get harder and harder to maintain - let alone expand - with every year that passes since their inception because you inevitably accumulate tech debt, scope creep, etc.

Edit: And just to be clear, as with every other business, Sports Interactive faces the unenviable issue of "what makes for good code" and "what makes for good business" often being completely orthogonal to each other.

Yeah this was my thinking as well, from experience....

I assume they do update their code but maybe at some point in time it is no longer feasible to update the code, you must refactor/restructure it completely...

Couple of pages ago in this thread I posted a goal from Football Manager 2009.... compare it with a similar goal from 2022 and not much has changed...in a bad way, yes the player make better decisions especially the defenders but the football played is a far cry from a simulation in what we watch happens on the pitch...

And yet the focus is on matching IRL statistics ( I guess SI considers this as a simulation guideline) instead of what happens on the pitch and HOW the game outputs the statistics...

Edited December 13, 2021 by FM1000

[Jack Joyce]

1 hour ago, FM1000 said:

Yeah this was my thinking as well, from experience....

I assume they do update their code but maybe at some point in time it is no longer feasible to update the code, you must refactor/restructure it completely...

Couple of pages ago in this thread I posted a goal from Football Manager 2009.... compare it with a similar goal from 2022 and not much has changed...in a bad way, yes the player make better decisions especially the defenders but the football played is a far cry from a simulation in what we watch happens on the pitch...

And yet the focus is on matching IRL statistics ( I guess SI considers this as a simulation guideline) instead of what happens on the pitch and HOW the game outputs the statistics...

Just to clear this up a bit as there's been a few posts about this - we absolutely can and do refactor match engine code on a regular basis. You don't need to start a 'new' match engine from scratch in order to do this, and doing so wouldn't really fix any of the problems mentioned above. At some point it's a bit like Trigger's broom in Only Fools and Horses - we've had the 'same' match engine for many years, but it's been constantly refactored over the course of that time to the point where it's not really the same engine at all anymore. There's also some confusion above to do with graphics/visuals, which have nothing to do with the match engine itself.

In terms of balancing - "they fixed A, but now B is 'broken' - that's the reality of working with such a complex simulation with hundreds, if not thousands of factors being considered and all having their own effects. Starting a 'new' match engine from scratch doesn't change that at all. You'll see the same thing with any other simulation/game, I can't think of any competitive/sports based game that's ever hit a 'perfect' balance, there's always something 'overpowered' or 'broken' in those games and most of them have far less complexity than FM. Ultimately a perfect simulation of real football is what we aim for, but realistically there's likely always going to be some sort of imbalance, especially to individuals who all may view football in a different light. We do listen and make improvements where we can, but sometimes to make real meaningful improvements it takes a bit longer. We try to avoid 'hacky' fixes where we can because long term it causes more problems than it solves.

Hopefully this helps, we are listening!

[TioPatinhax]

I wonder if close to xmas there will be some discount on the price of FM22? Would be nice if that happens

[Platinum]

On 12/12/2021 at 10:40, TIR669 said:

7th minute attacking corner while 1-0 up.

Attacking set pieces set to default.

Positive mentality with three attack roles in my 4-4-2.

The game puts 9 of my players in the box like I'm overloading in 94th minute trying to equalize, and of course I get countered since I have a GK on 30yr line and 10 players on the other side of the pitch. 

 

 

EDIT: apparently this is how the game sets it up. Left side normal, both fullbacks stay back. And a left winger although he's W(a) is back if needed.

 

BUT if a corner is coming from the right, it's time to send everyone to the box! And apparently that W(a) is not needed back even though there's two opposition players unmarked.

Yeah this is a really annoying issue with the game. Its not clear at all why this type of thing happens with corner. The default sep piece tactics for some formations don't make sense and just making one sub can completely mess up a set piece tactic.

[gm23]

After a few days now playing with the latest patch, I'm still extremely disappointed with IF's. It completely takes the fun out of what could be a brilliant ME. They're not cutting in to shoot or play through balls at all. All they do is run to the byline to cross or pass backwards, it's infuriating to watch. Sometimes even when making a diagonal run through on goal, when a through ball is played to them they don't even shoot. They just take it to the byline again and pass back. I haven't much faith now in professional reviewers if they failed to pick up on this major issue with what is the most popular position in the modern game.

[gm23]

On 11/12/2021 at 10:10, FM1000 said:

I don't think people realise that the IW/IS problem will not be fixed for FM22.....instead it will become a new feature for FM23, same way FM20 was left in a broken state and later they fixed it with FM21...

The core problem is that the slow dribbling one on one Vs a defender head to head...it does not exist in the ME...

Sometimes I would get highlights in FM21 where the IF is face to face with a defender, but they are almost hugging each other, one on top of the other no dribbling animations occoure and the IF either runs straight through the defender like he is a ghost or the defender tackles and clears the ball...

My point being there are no animations in the game to properly show the slow dribbling from wide toward the middle, the cutting inside...so I guess this is why players go wide and don't dribble towards defenders.

And another issue is that the ME does not make a difference between running with the ball (Kessi at Milan always runs with the ball carrying it from defense but he cannot and is not a dribbler) and actual dribbling with the ball (watch Iniesta highlights how he uses dribbling to go past people)

This will be a disgrace if true and possibly the last time I purchase the game. I skipped on FM20 & FM21.  I'll just return to my FM17 save for good.

[paddypower]

Is anyone else struggling to increase young players attributes? I've had a number of high potential players now - I give them games, have them mentored, they constantly get good training ratings, but their attributes don't increase over 2 seasons. The only thing I don't do is the training which I leave to my assistant manager. Do you have to manage training yourself to develop these players? I feel like a 3 star CA 5 star PA player should see significant increases if they've played 30-40 games over a couple of seasons at 19 or 20 years old.

[FM1000]

47 minutes ago, Jack Joyce said:

Just to clear this up a bit as there's been a few posts about this - we absolutely can and do refactor match engine code on a regular basis. You don't need to start a 'new' match engine from scratch in order to do this, and doing so wouldn't really fix any of the problems mentioned above. At some point it's a bit like Trigger's broom in Only Fools and Horses - we've had the 'same' match engine for many years, but it's been constantly refactored over the course of that time to the point where it's not really the same engine at all anymore. There's also some confusion above to do with graphics/visuals, which have nothing to do with the match engine itself.

In terms of balancing - "they fixed A, but now B is 'broken' - that's the reality of working with such a complex simulation with hundreds, if not thousands of factors being considered and all having their own effects. Starting a 'new' match engine from scratch doesn't change that at all. You'll see the same thing with any other simulation/game, I can't think of any competitive/sports based game that's ever hit a 'perfect' balance, there's always something 'overpowered' or 'broken' in those games and most of them have far less complexity than FM. Ultimately a perfect simulation of real football is what we aim for, but realistically there's likely always going to be some sort of imbalance, especially to individuals who all may view football in a different light. We do listen and make improvements where we can, but sometimes to make real meaningful improvements it takes a bit longer. We try to avoid 'hacky' fixes where we can because long term it causes more problems than it solves.

Hopefully this helps, we are listening!

Yeah I can't imagine how complex the ME under the hood really is, and like all software development a tiny change in one place can have a big impact elsewhere...

I think one area where the user experience with the ME can be drastically improved is a proper manual about what each tactical instruction actually does in the ME, I bet the complaints about the ME would be halved

[Mitja]

2 hours ago, FM1000 said:

Yeah this was my thinking as well, from experience....

I assume they do update their code but maybe at some point in time it is no longer feasible to update the code, you must refactor/restructure it completely...

Couple of pages ago in this thread I posted a goal from Football Manager 2009.... compare it with a similar goal from 2022 and not much has changed...in a bad way, yes the player make better decisions especially the defenders but the football played is a far cry from a simulation in what we watch happens on the pitch...

And yet the focus is on matching IRL statistics ( I guess SI considers this as a simulation guideline) instead of what happens on the pitch and HOW the game outputs the statistics...

While I agree that visual experience should be more important than matching stats I'm not sure if that's possible when stats fail to replicate real life big time like with possession bug or far too many crossing attempts. If poor teams outpass big teams without endangering them it's a problem for game's difficulty and realism. This is the only statistic people were really vocal about as far as I know. And it's not the first ME with this problem it's a long term issue where any team playing with mentality lower than balanced can keep the ball for forever finishing games close to 90% passing rate.  Same problem was with far too many crosses where attacking mentality produced cross after cross which then produced too many corners, blocked crosses and of course no central play. 

What I want to say is that people are vocal about wrong things. Instead of asking why my team full of superstars can't outpass anybody people should ask how it's possible that defensive teams play sterile tikitaka instead of quick counter attacking football like they are supposed to and what opposition team report and AI manager attributes claims. What's the purpose of defensive mentality to generate possession? Why it's still there if it doesn't produce style of football which is claimed and even hurts chances of getting results? Does any human manager uses those mentalities?

[david_kax]

hace 1 hora, Mitja dijo:

While I agree that visual experience should be more important than matching stats I'm not sure if that's possible when stats fail to replicate real life big time like with possession bug or far too many crossing attempts. If poor teams outpass big teams without endangering them it's a problem for game's difficulty and realism. This is the only statistic people were really vocal about as far as I know. And it's not the first ME with this problem it's a long term issue where any team playing with mentality lower than balanced can keep the ball for forever finishing games close to 90% passing rate.  Same problem was with far too many crosses where attacking mentality produced cross after cross which then produced too many corners, blocked crosses and of course no central play. 

What I want to say is that people are vocal about wrong things. Instead of asking why my team full of superstars can't outpass anybody people should ask how it's possible that defensive teams play sterile tikitaka instead of quick counter attacking football like they are supposed to and what opposition team report and AI manager attributes claims. What's the purpose of defensive mentality to generate possession? Why it's still there if it doesn't produce style of football which is claimed and even hurts chances of getting results? Does any human manager uses those mentalities?

This is one of the big bugs of FM22. It seems that all teams have to play tiki-taka ... It is an ME of cowardly players who almost always choose to play safe and pass rather than dribble and take advantage of the spaces to go towards goal.

The counterattacks have lost effectiveness, the players who have spaces and the option to dribble, do not do it, stop and pass.

When a wing player has the option to cut inside towards the goal and shoot, he gets scared and prefers to pass the ball.

Why are there different tactical options if my team has to play Tiki-taka because the developers have decided that way?

Why can't I make my IF / IW prioritize dribbling, cutting inside and shooting on target and not as much pass?

Why marking the option to dribble or face more of the defense in FM22 is absolutely useless and comes passes and passes and more passes?

The ME does not have to reflect a specific style of play, it has to allow each manager to develop his own according to the tactic he chooses, otherwise it is absolutely useless and the game loses all meaning.

[KingCanary]

Not sure if I'm missing something or its a bug but despite being set to stay back, one of my central defenders is always in the opposition penalty area when we get an attacking throw-in. My team don't have a player for long throws, all our throw ins go short so there is no need for him to be up there but without fail he is and it leaves me horribly exposed on the counter.

[Hovis Dexter]

1 hour ago, KingCanary said:

Not sure if I'm missing something or its a bug but despite being set to stay back, one of my central defenders is always in the opposition penalty area when we get an attacking throw-in. My team don't have a player for long throws, all our throw ins go short so there is no need for him to be up there but without fail he is and it leaves me horribly exposed on the counter.

Does he have a trait of liking to get forward whenever possible?

[Wyer]

I am getting soooo frustrated at having to select my player stats for every game.

If I'm home I click home but then its an away game and I have to select my players stats again as it was in the home selection for the previous game and it goes on and on and on...

[KingCanary]

1 hour ago, Hovis Dexter said:

Does he have a trait of liking to get forward whenever possible?

Nope.

[Diablotic]

This is a computer game so if I want my player to dribble everytime he has a possibility to do so why I cannot let him do that? I want to tell my player to dribble as much as he possible can and when I watch the game and he has the ball I want to see him trying - 9 out of 10 times he will lose the ball and in total I might lose a goal or two because it is a stupid tactic but again this is a computer game and I want him to do so. It is not possible at the moment.

Edited December 13, 2021 by Diablotic

[properdisco]

The IFs criticism is really overblown and a bit spoiled I feel. If you commit to a tactic that makes sense with them, they will create and they will score. We're just waiting for them to add one measly animation. I get frustration with the game but I can't imagine trying to sell a player, trying to loan out a player, and then complaining about some luxury animations we don't have. The match engine is also brilliantly complex, I can't even fathom how it works and applaud the efforts taken with it each year. The interface stuff, though, doesn't really have that excuse, and I don't applaud the efforts in recent times. 

My main issue is that we were advertised fluff that didn't change anything, like staff meetings not being reduced to one email, and a data hub that doesn't really try to tell you anything, and the stuff that was actually hurting the game like loan difficulty/receiving unfair transfer offers/team meetings with no positive outcome has seemingly gone gloriously unaddressed - in fact, I've never had to use the edit button for emergencies more than this in any FM. I didn't even get a youth intake in year two because I tried to set up an U23s team and it apparently broke my entire youth set-up. What were they doing all year? Also how weird are the press conferences? I recently discovered that all you have to do to get a positive response from the press is by pointing for every answer you can. What kind of lazy coding is that? It doesn't matter what you say or when you say it, they'll only receive it positively if you point. Stuff like this just hasn't come a long enough way since like, CM01/02. It's pretty embarrassing. That's my 2 cents anyway. I can't fathom caring this much about inward dribbling and making a big deal of something so complicated, when the much simpler interface stuff is what's threatening to kill my and other saves.

The match engine will always change from year to year and it's up to us to plan our transfers accordingly each time, if the interface feels broken though we can't really do anything at all and won't want to either.

Edited December 13, 2021 by properdisco

[kertiek]

13 minutes ago, properdisco said:

The IFs criticism is really overblown and a bit spoiled I feel. If you commit to a tactic that makes sense with them, they will create and they will score. We're just waiting for them to add one measly animation. I get frustration with the game but I can't imagine trying to sell a player, trying to loan out a player, and then complaining about some luxury animations we don't have. The match engine is also brilliantly complex, I can't even fathom how it works and applaud the efforts taken with it each year. The interface stuff, though, doesn't really have that excuse, and I don't applaud the efforts in recent times. 

My main issue is that we were advertised fluff that didn't change anything, like staff meetings not being reduced to one email, and a data hub that doesn't really try to tell you anything, and the stuff that was actually hurting the game like loan difficulty/receiving unfair transfer offers/team meetings with no positive outcome has seemingly gone gloriously unaddressed - in fact, I've never had to use the edit button for emergencies more than this in any FM. I didn't even get a youth intake in year two because I tried to set up an U23s team and it apparently broke my entire youth set-up. What were they doing all year? Also how weird are the press conferences? I recently discovered that all you have to do to get a positive response from the press is by pointing for every answer you can. What kind of lazy coding is that? It doesn't matter what you say or when you say it, they'll only receive it positively if you point. Stuff like this just hasn't come a long enough way since like, CM01/02. It's pretty embarrassing. That's my 2 cents anyway. I can't fathom caring this much about inward dribbling and making a big deal of something so complicated, when the much simpler interface stuff is what's threatening to kill my and other saves.

someone must contact si games right now and let them know that this guys clearly knows the state of the game way better than us useless peasant users and the devs, so they go ahead and  remove the known issue status on the IF/iw situation ASAP.

Edited December 13, 2021 by kertiek

[properdisco]

Just now, kertiek said:

someone must contact si games right now and let them know that this guys clearly knows the state of the game way better than us useless peasants and the deves, so they go ahead and  remove the known issue status on the IF/iw situation ASAP.

Yes, I absolutely said "do not fix this problem" in my post. Your reading comprehension is class. But everybody knows about it, and it is a luxury animation that adds a small extra level of immersion - not the be all and end all flaw that some are making out. All these people saying they're done with FM because of that feels completely OTT. That would only be justified when running into massive interface problems

[kertiek]

2 minutes ago, properdisco said:

Yes, I absolutely said "do not fix this problem" in my post. Your reading comprehension is class. But everybody knows about it, and it is a luxury animation that adds a small extra level of immersion - not the be all and end all flaw that some are making out. All these people saying they're done with FM because of that feels completely OTT. That would only be justified when running into massive interface problems

i play only on comentary mode, can u explain how the animations have anything to do with the problem with iw/if not cutting in? u think that people playing in 2d have the "animation" problem too?

[properdisco]

2 minutes ago, kertiek said:

i play only on comentary mode, can u explain how the animations have anything to do with the problem with iw/if not cutting in? u think that people playing in 2d have the "animation" problem too?

I don't know or care really. I never play 2D and would guess they just do the things the 3D engine does (that require animations), except in 2D. Not the point I was trying to make at all though, so don't really get why you're responding to me.

[kertiek]

Just now, properdisco said:

I don't know or care really. I never play 2D and would guess they just do the things the 3D engine does (that require animations), except in 2D. Not the point I was trying to make at all though, so don't really get why you're responding to me.

the graphic representation of what happens during the match is irrelevant to the AI simulation under the hood, where the iw/if players  simply refuse to attempt to cut in, most of the people complaining about it are not requesting "PlEaSe i WaNt PrEtTY AnImAtIoNS ThIS iS BrOKeN i CAnT PLaY AnYMoRe"

am asking because u said 

32 minutes ago, properdisco said:

The IFs criticism is really overblown and a bit spoiled I feel. If you commit to a tactic that makes sense with them, they will create and they will score. We're just waiting for them to add one measly animation. I get frustration with the game but I can't imagine trying to sell a player, trying to loan out a player, and then complaining about some luxury animations we don't have.

getting assists with  crosses being made during the game is just a consequence of what is happening during the match, of course someone like salah would end up with assists and goals even if he never cuts in, because those types of players have the quality to create chances not only by going inside the box, but their assists come mainly from crosses and goals from tap ins or crosses being made from the opposite side of the field.

but from my point of view the animations have no weight with the iw/if problem, the inexistence of lateral dribbles from inside forwards, specially if that is a hidden player instruction that role gets is the problem.

so i dont agree with your statement that people complaining about this specific problem with if/iw not cutting in are "spoiled people demanding  LuXuRy ANimaTiONs"

[Bakiano]

Was there any update recentlym

[Neil Brock]

 

[teej9]

1 minute ago, Bakiano said:

Was there any update recentlym

 tiny patch today for stability fixes. 

Edited December 13, 2021 by teej9

[properdisco]

27 minutes ago, kertiek said:

 

so i dont agree with your statement that people complaining about this specific problem with if/iw not cutting in are "spoiled people demanding  LuXuRy ANimaTiONs"

Stop making up statements I didn't say, it's really irritating. I was responding specifically to all the people who've posted in this thread that they are "done with FM" because of this issue. Never said it shouldn't be fixed, never said people don't have a right to complain. Just that being "done with FM" over this feels overdramatic, whereas that would be more understandable when addressing interface stuff like transfers, interactions & press conferences. That's the only point I was making. Please don't feel the need to make anything else up.

[XaW]

@properdisco/ @kertiek - Enough now, please. If you want to continue this, do it via PMs.

[anagain]

20 hours ago, Sneaky Pete said:

Any programmer worth their salt will tell you that, if this is the case, then that in and of itself is a huge issue and warrants considering a refactor.

Being a "work of many years" is generally not a positive quality, as far as code goes. What constitutes good programming has evolved exponentially over the last couple of decades. 15 years back we didn't have Git and "unit tests" were a city in Fukuoka Prefecture. By virtue of its age alone, irrespective of whether it was written by very competent programmers, much of any 10+ year old code is likely utter garbage that the programmers involved would kill to be allowed to refactor.

Because, in the same vein as my response to another part of your post, it would be written according to modern standards and best practices, rather than being 10+ years of cobbled-together tech debt-infested FrankenCode. And just to make it clear, this isn't a hit job on SI or their ME team at all. I'm sure they're very good at their jobs, but that's just the nature of the business. Software products generally get harder and harder to maintain - let alone expand - with every year that passes since their inception because you inevitably accumulate tech debt, scope creep, etc.

Edit: And just to be clear, as with every other business, Sports Interactive faces the unenviable issue of "what makes for good code" and "what makes for good business" often being completely orthogonal to each other.

Way too much negativity around the ME. I don't think it is ever perfect but neither do I think perfection would ever be easily achievable.

Its certainly nowhere near as bad as people say on here. 

Edited December 13, 2021 by anagain

[david_kax]

hace 1 hora, properdisco dijo:

The IFs criticism is really overblown and a bit spoiled I feel. If you commit to a tactic that makes sense with them, they will create and they will score. We're just waiting for them to add one measly animation. I get frustration with the game but I can't imagine trying to sell a player, trying to loan out a player, and then complaining about some luxury animations we don't have. The match engine is also brilliantly complex, I can't even fathom how it works and applaud the efforts taken with it each year. The interface stuff, though, doesn't really have that excuse, and I don't applaud the efforts in recent times. 

My main issue is that we were advertised fluff that didn't change anything, like staff meetings not being reduced to one email, and a data hub that doesn't really try to tell you anything, and the stuff that was actually hurting the game like loan difficulty/receiving unfair transfer offers/team meetings with no positive outcome has seemingly gone gloriously unaddressed - in fact, I've never had to use the edit button for emergencies more than this in any FM. I didn't even get a youth intake in year two because I tried to set up an U23s team and it apparently broke my entire youth set-up. What were they doing all year? Also how weird are the press conferences? I recently discovered that all you have to do to get a positive response from the press is by pointing for every answer you can. What kind of lazy coding is that? It doesn't matter what you say or when you say it, they'll only receive it positively if you point. Stuff like this just hasn't come a long enough way since like, CM01/02. It's pretty embarrassing. That's my 2 cents anyway. I can't fathom caring this much about inward dribbling and making a big deal of something so complicated, when the much simpler interface stuff is what's threatening to kill my and other saves.

The match engine will always change from year to year and it's up to us to plan our transfers accordingly each time, if the interface feels broken though we can't really do anything at all and won't want to either.

Wrong. No one is criticizing IFs because an animation is missing or because they don't score. What we say is that the IF do not cut inside with the ball, they do not try to dribble the defenders ... And they limit their ball play to crosses and passes. I don't care about the animations, but if I like the football of Salah, Vinicius or Mbappé it is because of their skills and dribbles and I don't care if in the ME it comes out more or less beautiful, but they must dribble and run with the ball towards goal because in reality they do.