Football Manager 2019 Official Feedback Thread

[Johnny Ace]

2 minutes ago, Vicz said:

@Johnny Ace

19.2? 

[Vicz]

2 minutes ago, Mensell76 said:

Precisely. 

Next to that a bug report has been created by SI on the poor turning and ball control of players, in comparison to fm18, preventing them to turn fully open and give a central through ball more easily. 

All in all SI acknowledged issues in the public beta that combined together restrict attacking and creative play.  

SI nevertheless feels this ME is the best it has ever put out and that of course is its right. SI will attempt to correct issues but also said some of them were going to be for the long term. 

Many of the public betatesters think differently on the greatness of this ME based on countless hours of providing pkm's and analysis. And some of us advised against releasing this ME because we feared it would lead to more unhappy gamers. 

I am not about to go down the road of frustration again. I did want to provide the right context and information for the gamers who were not involved in the public beta. It might prove helpful in understanding some of the criticicism on the ME here.

 

To be fair, you are one of the posters who I have seen to be way more thorough and analytical with your criticism of the ME so it is disheartening to hear you're not satisfied with the new ME. 

[Vicz]

Just now, Johnny Ace said:

19.2? 

Ah sorry, nope. Haven't even played 19.2 yet.

[Johnny Ace]

1 minute ago, Vicz said:

Ah sorry, nope. Haven't even played 19.2 yet.

That's the thing, through ball assists weren't previously an issue, like you've shown. As I said earlier, in 19.2 for my last 50 league games, I've had 5 goals assisted by through balls & conceded 1 

[Vicz]

1 minute ago, Johnny Ace said:

That's the thing, through ball assists weren't previously an issue, like you've shown. As I said earlier, in 19.2 for my last 50 league games, I've had 5 goals assisted by through balls & conceded 1 

Ahh ok, I hadn't seen your post. Most posts I've seen were unhappy with central play and through balls from before 19.2

[Mensell76]

7 hours ago, Vicz said:

To be fair, you are one of the posters who I have seen to be way more thorough and analytical with your criticism of the ME so it is disheartening to hear you're not satisfied with the new ME. 

Thanks. And I also still stand for what I positively said regarding the ME: it is close to being a work of art.

And yes there are many corner goals, which is also because there are too many corners due to the overexaggerated wing play (due to the central play issues).

It is not about wanting to see 10 through balls each match. It is wanting to see the logical attacking moves when the opportunities are very clearly there. The variation and dynamics to reach this are just not available in this ME.

I love how wing play looks in this ME and I love many things. Overall though this ME I.m.o is not really balanced and does not provide enough attacking variety and wow/fun factor.

Edited December 12, 2018 by Mensell76
Mobile typing with dutch spelling :)

[Punt]

I wrote couple of posts in the past about how ME is bad and everything. I have been critical of this ME, but since then I tried to return to basics of making tactic and a lot of watching videos from Rashidi and reading different articles about tactics. I changed everything and stopped using downloaded tactics, started everything from scratch and I can say that I´m finally enjoying this edition of FM. I just wanted to take back my words about ME and write something good about it. Enjoying the game again!  

[Mitja]

so is 19.2 same as public beta ME?

[Mensell76]

4 minutes ago, Mitja said:

so is 19.2 same as public beta ME?

MEv1922 so yes. 

[Armistice]

1 hour ago, Rashidi said:

Alright out of curiosity how many through balls do you expect to see in a game?

Well, at least 100 against a compact, Diego Simeone-like 4-4-2...

Nobody expects a certain number of through balls to be attempted, especially when those forward players are less mobile than a 34 years old Peter Crouch, we showed in the analysis in the bug section that more often than not the players prefer to do anything else but to pass it through when there's an opportunity. We have shown images of situations when there WAS space to make a key pass between the defenders or in the channels and the player in possession passed it out wide. If these situations persist, it's not a tactical fault, not a player fault but a ME fault.

 

I think this debate is pointless at the moment, we've ripped bits of our time to edit screenshots, watch matches, upload them on the forum, we could have done something else with that time (inb4 someone says well yeah nobody forced you to do that m8), but maybe it was the passion for this game; yet SI decides to roll out the same ME as it was in the public beta, they didn't even bother to come out and say at least "sorry lads but we were unable to fix these issues yet", only added "it takes time" as a defending mechanism after some people started to melt. Needless to say that these issues were present since the beta was released and that was almost 2 months ago.

Edited December 12, 2018 by Armistice

[themadsheep2001]

8 minutes ago, Armistice said:

Well, at least 100 against a compact, Diego Simeone-like 4-4-2...

Nobody expects a certain number of through balls to be attempted, especially when those forward players are less mobile than a 34 years old Peter Crouch, we showed in the analysis in the bug section that more often than not the players prefer to do anything else but to pass it through when there's an opportunity. We have shown images of situations when there WAS space to make a key pass between the defenders or in the channels and the player in possession passed it out wide. If these situations persist, it's not a tactical fault, not a player fault but a ME fault.

 

I think this debate is pointless at the moment, we've ripped bits of our time to edit screenshots, watch matches, upload them on the forum, we could have done something else with that time (inb4 someone says well yeah nobody forced you to do that m8), but maybe it was the passion for this game; yet SI decides to roll out the same ME as it was in the public beta, they didn't even bother to come out and say at least "sorry lads but we were unable to fix these issues yet", only added "it takes time" as a defending mechanism after some people started to melt. Needless to say that these issues were present since the beta was released and that was almost 2 months ago.

That's part and parcel of doing a beta, though

They cant' say they aren't able to send out a fix, until they know they can't, which given that they will work right to the end, is always going to be a late call. Doesn't mean the work isn't then valuable for the future. For example I've done some work on the False 9. Now I know what I looked at won't make it into 19.2, but I know it will help go to a fundamental change in the F9 in future

And yes, nobody did force you to do. Beta testing is relentless, and actually quite frustrating, because testing is never a guarantee of a fix. There's a very good reason why it's voluntary. 

The one thing that's come out of the public beta testing is that it's hopefully opened some eyes into what beta testing actually is, and not what some imagine it is

[Novem9]

without denying that there are known problems, I can see how my old tactics dont work. But this is not ME issue. For example I I analyzed Guardiola's conversation on SkySports and I can to reproduce his ideas in ME. 

Unworking CAM? I refused this role few years ago, imho clear CAM is superannuated and even you see Alli or Eriksen in CAM, its only nominally

Of course I want to play and win in my own ideas, but reality is that tactics has own rules. And as I can see this ME more friendly for IRL tactics. Because I really dont like FM18 where you can play 4231 with BBM and MEZ in middle, I can't imagine this tactic IRL, it's against the basics. Maybe there its working too, but IRL ideas working there better for me.

 

P.S. I dont khow how and why, but before release it worked worse. Looks like you add some little but important changes in last moment?

Edited December 12, 2018 by Novem9

[themadsheep2001]

1 minute ago, Novem9 said:

without denying that there are known problems, I can see how my old tactics dont work. But this is not ME issue. For example I I analyzed Guardiola's conversation on SkySports and I can to reproduce his ideas in ME. 

Unworking CAM? I refused this role few years ago, imho clear CAM is superannuated and even you see Alli or Eriksen in CAM, its only nominally

Of course I want to play and win in my own ideas, but reality is that tactics has own rules. And as I can see this ME more friendly for IRL tactics. Because I really dont like FM18 where you can play 4231 with BBM and MEZ in middle, I can't imagine this tactic IRL, it's against the basics. Maybe there its working too, but IRL ideas working there better for me.

There are definitely issues that need looking at, but equally there is hyperbole around it, and that isn't useful either. Rashidi asked the question, how many through balls you should see, and there isn't an answer. The other thing to consider is that players shouldn't be making the right passes all the time either, that doesn't happen in football, and is just as unrealistic as making the wrong decision all the time as well. That's where the difficulty truly lies

[Martin#]

I have one last thing to say. I have never uploaded a pkm or created a bug thread and I will never do so "because of principles". I honestly can´t be bothered to provide anything more than just my general feedback. But I absolutely appreciate all the people who are willing to spend their precious time helping developers to repair the game. Yes, I say repair, because I honestly feel that the ME is broken, but of course, it is just my opinion and I know we can have an infinitely long debate about what "broken" really means.

I appreciate that SI continuously work on the game and the staff are active and communicating which is definitely not an industry standard. But I cannot help myself but to think that their communication is very often confusing, vague and not helping at all.  It is also weird that sometimes it seems that Si were genuinely unaware of a blatantly obvious issue before it was raised. Do SI not see that GK does not distribute it quickly despite being told to do so? Do they not see that that there are 20 corners a game? Do they not see that a bright green text on a white background is difficult to read? There are so many obvious bugs that one has to wonder how come the game is released in such a state, especially when a number of these bugs have been in the game for years.

[Armistice]

9 minutes ago, themadsheep2001 said:

Rashidi asked the question, how many through balls you should see, and there isn't an answer.

Ok, I expect about 4.592131285734964506760 through balls per game.  Does that help you or the coders in any way?

Edited December 12, 2018 by Armistice

[Novem9]

5 минут назад, themadsheep2001 сказал:

There are definitely issues that need looking at, but equally there is hyperbole around it, and that isn't useful either. Rashidi asked the question, how many through balls you should see, and there isn't an answer. The other thing to consider is that players shouldn't be making the right passes all the time either, that doesn't happen in football, and is just as unrealistic as making the wrong decision all the time as well. That's where the difficulty truly lies

Honestly I dont get your answer  It would be clearer if I criticized the engine, but I didn't. I asked for responce between tactic settings and ME current events - I get it (as I can see)

[themadsheep2001]

 

1 minute ago, Novem9 said:

Honestly I dont get your answer  It would be clearer if I criticized the engine, but I didn't. I asked for responce between tactic settings and ME current events - I get it (as I can see)

It's a statement of the situation around the AMC, where it's both an ME issue, and also absolutely exacerbated by tactics.

[themadsheep2001]

14 minutes ago, Armistice said:

Ok, I expect about 4.592131285734964506760 through balls per game.  Does that help you or the coders in any way?

It actually does, because balance is the key. You can't have through balls at every opportunity either, you can't have players make the right decisions either. So how few is too few is very much part of the answer, it always is

[andu1]

2 hours ago, Rashidi said:

Alright out of curiosity how many through balls do you expect to see in a game?

My beta bug thread was about lesser teams having more possesion than Top teams with examples and PKM's included. There were other people who picked up on the general lack of through balls and central play in the ME.

While i am at it, do you think it's normal that Barcelona  AI or Man City AI  to have less time on the ball than Girona AI  and Burnley AI ? Even if they win 4-0 or 5-0 it's still unrealistic. this happens in the first season of the game when these things should be closer to IRL.

Edited December 12, 2018 by andu1

[Armistice]

9 minutes ago, themadsheep2001 said:

It actually does, because balance is the key. You can't have through balls at every opportunity either, you can't have players make the right decisions either. So how few is too few, its very much part of the answer, it always is

This game is a simulator, you create a tactic, fill it with 11 players and watch if they play the way you want. So to give out a number to that question, even an approximate, is stupid, since there are lots of things involved, including players attributes, how good/bad the players movement is, the opposition tactical setup etc.

Edited December 12, 2018 by Armistice

[Novem9]

11 минут назад, themadsheep2001 сказал:

It actually does, because balance is the key. You can't have through balls at every opportunity either, you can't have players make the right decisions either. So how few is too few, its very much part of the answer, it always is

Ahh, I get it now, thanks!

Well, Im not a tactic expert, but as I can see - only one ME issue its CAM in rules of 'old tactic reality', but defence in 'new tactic reality'. Its remind me Wenger's claccis CAM which was unuseful in last years. Modern CAM is more mobile and honestly looks like CM Mezzala in few cases which I can remember now

Edited December 12, 2018 by Novem9

[themadsheep2001]

2 minutes ago, Armistice said:

This game is a simulator, you create a tactic, fill it with 11 players and watch if they play the way you want. So to give out a number to that question, even an approximate, is stupid, since there are lots of things involved, including players attributes, how good/bad the players movement is, the opposition tactical setup etc.

But it's never that simple, for the same reason people talk about possession stats, passing numbers, crossing numbers etc. Ultimately one wants to see this, AI vs AI anyway, looking relatively close to real life, all caveat accounted for

[noikeee]

12 minutos atrás, andu1 disse:

While i am at it, do you think it's normal that Barcelona or Man City to have less time on the ball than Girona and Burnley ? Even if they win 4-0 or 5-0 it's still unrealistic.

This is a completely separate issue from the lack of through balls (it was prevalent in previous MEs such as FM17 and FM18 where there wasn't a lack of through balls, specially '17), and in my opinion is related to a disconnect between what mentality is and how the AI uses it. The AI when they are heavy favourites for a match, uses very aggressive mentalities such as Positive and Attacking. However in the game Positive and Attacking mentalities almost always results in rushed, direct play, and even lots of long shots, which all negates the manager's preferred style of play - in this case what should be a very short passing game.

I've raised this issue in the past but it's a difficult one for them to fix, because it pretty much needs a complete re-think of either what mentality is, or what the AI does with it.

[ikendz]

We need more club personality. Have it so that you feel the difference between certain clubs. As an eastern european, I feel no difference when playing with Arsenal or Manchester United. There's so much room for improvement here.

[Rashidi]

24 minutes ago, Armistice said:

Ok, I expect about 4.592131285734964506760 through balls per game.  Does that help you or the coders in any way?

I keep hearing there aren't enough through balls and this has been going on for a while, but even watching last nights matches on ECL, you would be hardpressed to find more than 1 completed through ball from a central position while a team was camping in the opponent's half.  Messi had 33 throughballs the whole of last season (source: xG analysis from S Willis over at tableau.).

 

 

[Orangedale]

18 hours ago, Vladimir said:

Well my inside forward who had scored once in 15 games got a hattrick of 30 yard screamers. Worried... 

First season in the Vanarama National and players now hit volley and half volley screamers like it's nothing but still struggle to play a ball to a players feet.

[baris28]

While I value Rashidi's feedback on Champions League-I enjoy watching him youtube- football statistics doesn't involve in only Messi's statistics.  There are all levels of football in database in theory...

Edited December 12, 2018 by baris28

[westy8chimp]

15 minutes ago, Orangedale said:

First season in the Vanarama National and players now hit volley and half volley screamers like it's nothing but still struggle to play a ball to a players feet.

I'm finding llm more realistic...at that level decision making etc is poor so expect to see more wild long shots...and some will go in and look world class. 

What I'd like to see is a lot more 'territorial passes'. I've been to a few low league matches this season... And majority of the time the defenders just look to clear the ball down the line trying to get the wingers free, or at worst the opponent forced into knocking it out for a throw or heading back into a central area for a 'second ball melee'. I don't think I saw a pattern of play with more than two successful short passes in sequence at my last outing to Tranmere. Its a really high pace game at that level... Play out of defence shouldn't even be unlockable until you get to the Championship or above 

Ive now put limits on myself tactically... Not using any foreign role unless I sign a player of the appropriate nationality i.e. Only an Italian will be able to play Regista or Trequarista for me. I also have to play direct or higher passing and tempo until I get to the Championship... 

[kertiek]

feedback for the game .. this is the last FM i preoder from SI , i had enough of the bad gameplay due to errors in the match engine, poor defending ... i had the play where all your defenders push wide and leave a couple of the opposition forwards free in front of the goal for an easy tap in and score... at least once every 3 games, ozil 2 or 3 full seasons with less than 5 assists .. even do i played him as a trequartista AMC with laca and auba in front of him  but all he did was playing wide side passes... no .. is not the tactics .. .

 we are a month after release and still is not fixed,  i like the new training module, and a few features of the game but what is the point of it ... if the most basic aspect of the game is not enjoyable? the match engine is not working as we expect, am playing this series since 04 each year,  but this match engine is easly on worst top 3 i played, so no .. i wont preorder the game anymore due to the reaction from SI at the critisism, i am a software engineer and i understand perfectly the life cycle of software, the state of this one at release was not good enough. the whole process of the "public beta" and the new intentions of improving the game with us in the loop, should have happened before release ... so the game is launched with all this improvements at release date, each year the quality of the game has been worst than the year before.

 

feels like buying a car, we have all this nice confort and new features .. but the new car can only drive at 90 kmh tops .. and the car from last year i was crusing at 160 kmh no problem.

[Orangedale]

7 minutes ago, westy8chimp said:

I'm finding llm more realistic...at that level decision making etc is poor so expect to see more wild long shots...and some will go in and look world class. 

To be honest, having only played llm in FM19, I have thought the ME has been a good representation of the football.

Lots of long balls over the top to quick strikers beating slow old CBs, easily countered by a much deeper defensive line.

Most assists coming from the wings and set pieces from either a big lads head, or a big lads header down to a scuffle in the box.

Not a lot of short passing, narrow tiki taka at this level which I think is fair. Didn't play 18 but in FM17 a 442 short passing diamond was deadly in llm. I couldn't get it to work this year but I put that down to not having a good enough creator nor fast enough strikers in my first season in the Vanarama South.

The number of long shots seemed a little low, but since the patch I am seeing too many now. Yes there should be a few at this level, poor decisions and all, and yes some should go in, but it feels like I'm seeing 1 or 2 screamers a game at the moment.

The only other thing I have noticed in the new ME is not as many goals from corners nor from far post wide freekicks. I could not defend the far post on wide free kicks at all previously.

[MBarbaric]

1 ora fa, Rashidi ha scritto:

I keep hearing there aren't enough through balls and this has been going on for a while, but even watching last nights matches on ECL, you would be hardpressed to find more than 1 completed through ball from a central position while a team was camping in the opponent's half.  Messi had 33 throughballs the whole of last season (source: xG analysis from S Willis over at tableau.).

 

 

it isn't only about completed through balls, it is about attempted through balls. It is important also in what phase (counter attack or positional attack)...

above is key passes diagram from Barcelona v Tottenham match yesterday. It is difficult to compare real life stats with FM as lots of things aren't compatible. That being said, there were 14 key passes of which 5 through balls (2' 40'', 58' 40'', 81' 18'',  83' 10'' and 91' 20''), against a set defence, three of them successful. 

Others were on counter attacks (2), Through balls played over the top of the defence (2), a cross (1)... 

I understand this means nothing as it is only one match, however, I challenge you to find an AI match where one team attempts 5 through balls from attacking third against a set defence.

Above is the pass map of Barcelona which one should compare to AI in FM to get any conclusions.

And finally, above are Barcelona passes into the box for the same match. There are a total of 10 passes into the box. Only four coming from wide area (two of them were free kicks and one a corner kick). There's only one cross and the rest are vertical or angled balls.

Edited December 12, 2018 by MBarbaric

[westy8chimp]

@Orangedale agree with your observation.... Unfortunately, it doesn't seem to be a purposeful step to make passing harder... Its just that in FM 17/18 every league played like the elite... And now in FM19 its going to benefit teams to play more like LLM with a direct lump it long style game. So at our level it's more realistic... But quite frustrating for those managing Barca or City etc I daresay.

In terms of long shots... Definitely more going in... I'm seeing a lot of goalie errors, more so than screamers. But yes.. On this patch, perhaps too many going in. Glad corners are not so destructive now tho

[Vladimir]

The "Continue Game Timeout" setting seems to be broken somehow. Like clicking on Inbox does not stop the clock. You have to click on a mail to stop it.

EDIT: saw a bug report so this is being addressed

Edited December 12, 2018 by Vladimir

[kroshot]

how come I won the league cup with Birmingham first season but since my game updated I haven't qualified for the euro cup

[noikeee]

57 minutos atrás, Rashidi disse:

I keep hearing there aren't enough through balls and this has been going on for a while, but even watching last nights matches on ECL, you would be hardpressed to find more than 1 completed through ball from a central position while a team was camping in the opponent's half.  Messi had 33 throughballs the whole of last season (source: xG analysis from S Willis over at tableau.).

 

 

Perhaps it's rarer than we think to see them against organized camped defences, but I feel part of the problem is in this FM, teams retreat, camp and perfectly cover the middle with lots of players, a lot. So we're essentially seeing a scenario playing out on the pitch very often, that is not as usual in real life as it is in the game, and naturally makes it hard for through balls to thrive in it.

Another problem is it's difficult to create width to pull out of position those teams camping in the middle, without resorting to crosses. Teams like Barça City etc often keep a wide player way out to stretch things horizontally, but these players do not often cross the ball, when they do get the ball their primary objective is to recycle possession until gaps appear. This is difficult to replicate as to best get that width you need to use the Winger role but that is not what these players do, as Winger role on FM is very eyes-on-the-floor, run forward and brainlessly cross.

Players dribbling and turning through crowded areas, is also something that happens in real life (specially at this really high level with players like Hazard Messi Bernardo Silva etc) and helps things happen through central areas against camped defences, this seems lacking in FM as players CAN dribble but even the very best seem to need a fair bit of space.

Essentially I think it's not just "more through balls" (though if I instruct players to attempt them, I want them to try it and fail if the space isn't there), more a mix of lack of central play, lack of the conditions for central play to thrive in, lack of options to pull defenders out of position, and lack of attackers movement to pull defenders out of position. All of this would result in more goals through the middle that aren't necessarily through ball for a quick attacker to tap in, but also for example square passes, or dribbles that releases a player into a scoring position.

Obviously I do understand it's all relative, and naturally passing through the middle should always be somewhat difficult, as it is in real life, as that's the most preciously guarded area on the pitch with least space. Still I feel it's lacking and most attempts at playing possession seem to be ending up with lots of corner goals and few from open play, which doesn't correlate well with real life IMO. 

Also I'm talking about 19.1 as haven't really played the most recent ME.

[Johnny Ace]

I've just ordered me FM18 to see me through to the next beta update. I'm enjoying my Bayern save in 19 but I'm thinking it'll be a whole load better with the next lot of ME changes. Just from messing around in the demo, I can already see more or what I expect   

[Mensell76]

7 minutes ago, Johnny Ace said:

I've just ordered me FM18 to see me through to the next beta update. I'm enjoying my Bayern save in 19 but I'm thinking it'll be a whole load better with the next lot of ME changes. Just from messing around in the demo, I can already see more or what I expect   

FM18, Go strikerless with two IF's on attack duty sitting narrow and a shadowstriker in the middle and enjoy how lethal your IF's will become Have fun!

[Johnny Ace]

5 minutes ago, Mensell76 said:

FM18, Go strikerless with two IF's on attack duty sitting narrow and a shadowstriker in the middle and enjoy how lethal your IF's will become Have fun!

Haha!! I'll give it a try 

[dcaine100]

Thought id put my opinion in...im finding the ME to be much better since the update, no more full backs stopping and waiting to be tackled and the AMC in my 4-2-3-1 is a lot more involved in the game, Ozil plays well now...winner 👍

Could maybe tone down the long cross field passes from the back but overall much better then the mess of an ME on release.

Edited December 12, 2018 by dcaine100

[Rashidi]

1 hour ago, MBarbaric said:

it isn't only about completed through balls, it is about attempted through balls. It is important also in what phase (counter attack or positional attack)...

above is key passes diagram from Barcelona v Tottenham match yesterday. It is difficult to compare real life stats with FM as lots of things aren't compatible. That being said, there were 14 key passes of which 5 through balls (2' 40'', 58' 40'', 81' 18'',  83' 10'' and 91' 20''), against a set defence, three of them successful. 

Others were on counter attacks (2), Through balls played over the top of the defence (2), a cross (1)... 

I understand this means nothing as it is only one match, however, I challenge you to find an AI match where one team attempts 5 through balls from attacking third against a set defence.

Above is the pass map of Barcelona which one should compare to AI in FM to get any conclusions.

And finally, above are Barcelona passes into the box for the same match. There are a total of 10 passes into the box. Only four coming from wide area (two of them were free kicks and one a corner kick). There's only one cross and the rest are vertical or angled balls.

I understand where you are coming from, to fix this, and make it so, I am worried Dag and Red will start passing like that as well.

[Mitja]

22 minutes ago, noikeee said:

Perhaps it's rarer than we think to see them against organized camped defences, but I feel part of the problem is in this FM, teams retreat, camp and perfectly cover the middle with lots of players, a lot. So we're essentially seeing a scenario playing out on the pitch very often, that is not as usual in real life as it is in the game, and naturally makes it hard for through balls to thrive in it.

Another problem is it's difficult to create width to pull out of position those teams camping in the middle, without resorting to crosses. Teams like Barça City etc often keep a wide player way out to stretch things horizontally, but these players do not often cross the ball, when they do get the ball their primary objective is to recycle possession until gaps appear. This is difficult to replicate as to best get that width you need to use the Winger role but that is not what these players do, as Winger role on FM is very eyes-on-the-floor, run forward and brainlessly cross.

i agree but even bigger problem with brainlassly crossing are fullbacks who are poorly marked and have all the time and space to cross highly umrealistic amounts. it should simply be coded with WBIB instruction crossing is the last option not the first. it's simple as that.

 

32 minutes ago, noikeee said:

Players dribbling and turning through crowded areas, is also something that happens in real life (specially at this really high level with players like Hazard Messi Bernardo Silva etc) and helps things happen through central areas against camped defences, this seems lacking in FM as players CAN dribble but even the very best seem to need a fair bit of space.

 

there is total lack of dribbling in congested area. it's such a basic stuff in football it's amazing simple body move where defender gets cought on wrong foot move can't be coded into the game, without it there is no point of dribbling attributes. 

37 minutes ago, noikeee said:

 Essentially I think it's not just "more through balls" (though if I instruct players to attempt them, I want them to try it and fail if the space isn't there), more a mix of lack of central play, lack of the conditions for central play to thrive in, lack of options to pull defenders out of position, and lack of attackers movement to pull defenders out of position. All of this would result in more goals through the middle that aren't necessarily through ball for a quick attacker to tap in, but also for example square passes, or dribbles that releases a player into a scoring position.

 

this. without movement, stretching play which opens defense and individual technical ability to pull it off, there's no football in final third.

[noikeee]

25 minutos atrás, Rashidi disse:

I understand where you are coming from, to fix this, and make it so, I am worried Dag and Red will start passing like that as well.

Teams at Dag&Red level can attempt to play like that, and it's not that crazy unusual to see it at lower level over here in Portugal or Spain etc, just not so much in the UK. 

My opinion is that style of play, to prevent seeing it in the UK except for rare cases, should be decided through the database, either through the individual managers in those divisions or even some sort of global attributes for the nation, division or club. But that again can only work with improvements to how a manager's playing style set in the DB translates to the pitch. (this is coming back to the chat I was talking about earlier of how AI Guardiola plays Positive when favourites, which then leads to little possession etc).

Maybe there should even be a global modifier game-wide, that the further lower the ranks, the lower the average CA to play with, the more prone a AI manager is to playing more directly, except for those truly stubbornly philosophical types. This is actually another attribute that's lacking for AI managers IMO - how flexible/inflexible they are at straying from their philosophical beliefs and adapting to the players/club/level/situation. In real life some managers are unbothered at using new formations and playing styles at every club they take over, others have their brand of football and live and die married to it.

[CybrSlydr]

Appreciate the help folks - I think I'll go back to Fm18 for now until they work on this a bit.

[evilpimp972]

Last year ME was better IMO, hell I can argue that 2015 version or whatever were better that this year.

Lack of dribbling (for some reason, it's always someone beating another player in a sprint, no skills...)

Lack of through balls

For the first time in my life I won't play FM in december, crazy huh, I waited for this update but nothing...I'll wait for the other one. My save is in stand by.

[FlorianAlbert9]

6 ore fa, Rashidi ha scritto:

Alright out of curiosity how many through balls do you expect to see in a game?

I want to see the difference between set risky pass or set shot more.

Before the patch that instructions are ineffectual.

They not try through balls nor long shot.

After the patch i see the first attempt long shot in 5 season 

And 4 through balls in 4 matches that are more then i see in 130 games.

As i said, i prefer to lose with my player try to do what i said that won scoring in a way i don't like.

4 matches are a little stat so can be coincidence. 

But more important a bottom team try to play against me.

[rdbayly]

This talk of through balls is the wrong focus of discussion. More pressing questions are these:

Q: How should your F9 / DLF behave when you enter the opposition's half (assuming they possess all key attributes)?

A: Personally, my answer would be something along the lines of the in-game description of the role. I expect him to drop deep, show for the ball, move into channels and drag defenders out of position. Certainly not act like to static poacher / lamppost.

Q: How should your goalkeeper behave when instructed to distribute quickly once possession has been regained?

A: Not wait 10 seconds for the opposition to regain their shape.

 

The fact is there are some roles and instructions that simply don't work, and this is infuriating beyond belief.

[Mr U Rosler]

Westy8chimp makes a good point.

Not only does the ME have to replicate some pretty sophisticated play from top level Managers and Champions League teams, the SAME ME has to also replicate lower league kick & rush football.

It's a big job they've got on, impossible actually.

Expecting them to replicate real life in a £30 game is a bit daft, and yes, it's a game not a simulation.

Edited December 12, 2018 by Mr U Rosler

[themadsheep2001]

15 minutes ago, rdbayly said:

This talk of through balls is the wrong focus of discussion. More pressing questions are these:

Q: How should your F9 / DLF behave when you enter the opposition's half (assuming they possess all key attributes)?

A: Personally, my answer would be something along the lines of the in-game description of the role. I expect him to drop deep, show for the ball, move into channels and drag defenders out of position. Certainly not act like to static poacher / lamppost.

Q: How should your goalkeeper behave when instructed to distribute quickly once possession has been regained?

A: Not wait 10 seconds for the opposition to regain their shape.

 

The fact is there are some roles and instructions that simply don't work, and this is infuriating beyond belief.

I'm not sure it is the wrong focus, if there is such a thing. Different issues are more important different people.

I'm personally most concerned about the slow turning. Getting that further improved will have a huge effect on offensive passing

[geisterhome]

how much longer will we have to wait, I also went back to FM 18 and had a great time, now I'm really itching to get going with FM 19. 

[RobertPage]

51 minutes ago, themadsheep2001 said:

I'm not sure it is the wrong focus, if there is such a thing. Different issues are more important different people.

I'm personally most concerned about the slow turning. Getting that further improved will have a huge effect on offensive passing

Personally i kind of agree. I think "through balls" aren't necessarily a key to creating chances. What are more important are good passes to players in dangerous positions (Strikers in the box), and their ability to control the ball with limited space and to turn and create a small space to get shots away. Like you say, the slow turning is an issue. Not often do you see a player receive the ball on a half turn and play it the opposite way to which it came from, or even drive on into space. Fix this along with off the ball movement and players running with the ball into space with conviction (to draw in defenders to link up with other players, or to even beat them) and then you'll immediately see defenders being pulled out of position and teams losing defensive shape.

I would love these things to be worked on soon. I like anyone wants stats to be close to reality, but i would take a ME that allow different style of football to be played and have unrealistic stats (to an extent). It needs to be fun again.

 

Also off topic, i really hope the rigid release periods of major updates is abandoned in terms of ME changes. 1: I don't think its good enough to leave the ME in this way until march. 2: Having the final major update just 4 months after release is something i cant understand, especially when there are still blatantly obvious flaws.

Edited December 12, 2018 by RobertPage