Football Manager 2020 Feedback Thread

[hyrule_king]

I am currently using a 442 and have this amount of chances created. :O

[Welshace]

I have sympathy with your sentiment OP.. but it all falls down for me when I consider the simple fact that the AI works with the same tools as we do.. so if Oxford are scoring with that sort of freedom.. there is no reason why you can't either, particulartly with a stronger squad.. 

 

The way you are speaking is almost like you consider the AI to have an advantage of some sort... which, most definitely, is not the case.

[Guest]

Why are their no sounds in the menu when you click around? Also can you add sort of Simciy background music?

[KUBI]

vor 2 Minuten schrieb Forza#8903:

Why are their no sounds in the menu when you click around? Also can you add sort of Simciy background music?

Post it here:

https://community.sigames.com/forum/680-football-manager-feature-requests/

[andysafc]

7 minutes ago, Welshace said:

I have sympathy with your sentiment OP.. but it all falls down for me when I consider the simple fact that the AI works with the same tools as we do.. so if Oxford are scoring with that sort of freedom.. there is no reason why you can't either, particulartly with a stronger squad.. 

 

The way you are speaking is almost like you consider the AI to have an advantage of some sort... which, most definitely, is not the case.

Not really. What i mean is FM used to be a game where you could implement your own ideas and work around that. But now i think you have to understand how SI think (plenty on here try to help). I liked it when i saw why it wasn't working and tweaked myself. I just think this ME does not play like that.  Maybe to be successful with this ME you need to spend much more time in the forums than i do.

Edited January 30, 2020 by andysafc

[Welshace]

Just now, andysafc said:

Not really. What i mean is FM used to be a game where you could implement your own ideas and work around that. But now i think you have to understand how SI think (plenty on here try to help). I liked it when i saw why it wasn't working and tweaked myself. I just think this ME does not play like that.  

My first suggestion would be not to use user created tactics... and most definitely not knaps... as while they are very successful, they are overly complicated with PI's etc on the whole..

 

I would literally go back to basics.. set your team with a simple tactic you think will fit or the way you want to play.. and tweak as you watch the matches and notice weaknesses that need addressing...

 

 

I play the most bog standard tactics around and find much joy in small tweaks to deal with weak areas.. to the point where my tactic is working as intended..

[andysafc]

Downloading tactics for me is rare, as i said previously i only do it to see how other people are having success then try to implement it into my own tactic. I see no point in playing consistently with anyone else's tactic.

[Guest]

Ok

[GOODNAME]

Why there hasn't be a fix for the brown crowd during matches? Dont get it

[andysafc]

My own tactic...

 

Lennons 123.fmf

[Guest]

20.3 is coming soon; will have a modification of current ME (20.2)

[Tetsuro P12]

2 hours ago, JordanMillward_1 said:

Just on my way home from work, so I'll post a screenshot of the tactics I'm using when I'm on my PC in about 15-20 minutes.

EDIT: @diddydaddydoddy @themadsheep2001 - Here you go:

Partially rotated due to injuries at present, and don't have any personal instructions, though I'm looking at that at present, as well as Mane and Firmino's roles (I sometimes shift Mane to an Inverted Winger (A) and Firmino to  CF(S)).

And here are the results from the last couple of months with this save where I settled on the tactic and wanted to see how it went:

 

The fact that a tactic like this works show how broken is the ME. It's not even logical.

[davehanson]

1 hour ago, andysafc said:

 

My own tactic is normally based off this, or i may push the wide players up to the AML/AMR and central the striker. I think Sunderland has a good squad to suit these positions.

I'm not a tactical expert by any means and I have given up on this years game, you would probably be better posting this in the Tactic forum, but IMO:

 

You are too static up front. Where is the movement coming from? You have hold shape instruction along with work ball into box, shorter passing and hardly any of your roles in forward area's are 'fluid' roles. The B2B has roam hard coded (I think), but other than that I don't see where you are dragging the opposition out of shape. You need to move the opposition defenders imo.

Also, to me, you have high line of engagement, high defensive line, extremely urgent press and counter press. I think that is too much. I would guess (again perhaps I am wrong) unless you win the ball within one or 2 phases after giving it away your players are out of a decent defensive position and the opposition can exploit this fact.

 

And, just a personal note, but I hate playing with 2 x ball playing defenders. Too many Hollywood type balls for me, if you have play out of defence I believe you can get away with playing 2 regular defenders who will play it simple to full-backs or midfielders without being stupid about it.

 

Just my two pennies worth.

[GOODNAME]

And one more thing

Even that i dont think this is the worst ME ever , im sick wating to January to get decent ME
 

in FM 21 i will not pre order the game like usual for 10000 % 

[andysafc]

4 minutes ago, davehanson said:

I'm not a tactical expert by any means and I have given up on this years game, you would probably be better posting this in the Tactic forum, but IMO:

 

You are too static up front. Where is the movement coming from? You have hold shape instruction along with work ball into box, shorter passing and hardly any of your roles in forward area's are 'fluid' roles. The B2B has roam hard coded (I think), but other than that I don't see where you are dragging the opposition out of shape. You need to move the opposition defenders imo.

Also, to me, you have high line of engagement, high defensive line, extremely urgent press and counter press. I think that is too much. I would guess (again perhaps I am wrong) unless you win the ball within one or 2 phases after giving it away your players are out of a decent defensive position and the opposition can exploit this fact.

 

And, just a personal note, but I hate playing with 2 x ball playing defenders. Too many Hollywood type balls for me, if you have play out of defence I believe you can get away with playing 2 regular defenders who will play it simple to full-backs or midfielders without being stupid about it.

 

Just my two pennies worth.

Thank you for your two pennies worth.... I will look into your suggestions and see if it helps in anyway 

[andysafc]

3 minutes ago, GOODNAME said:

And one more thing

Even that i dont think this is the worst ME ever , im sick wating to January to get decent ME
 

in FM 21 i will not pre order the game like usual for 10000 % 

I agree I am sick of waiting until January every year until they settle on a final ME. No point buying any earlier as the same thing happens every year, has for the last 25 years.

[JordanMilly]

17 minutes ago, Tetsuro P12 said:

The fact that a tactic like this works show how broken is the ME. It's not even logical.

Please then, @Tetsuro P12, as the expert, explain how it isn't logical and shouldn't work. I eagerly await your insights.

[andysafc]

10 minutes ago, andysafc said:

Thank you for your two pennies worth.... I will look into your suggestions and see if it helps in anyway 

What would you suggest for movement up front? A DLF on support to wander more?

my d-line should not be that high, maybe I was testing around that time. I don’t like that high and had changed it back on my copy.

[sorrenmills]

Looks like a perfectly cromulent tactic to me. 

[JordanMilly]

14 minutes ago, sorrenmills said:

Looks like a perfectly cromulent tactic to me. 

Thanks! In terms of player movement and location, they're broadly where I want them to be, and are recycling the ball and keeping possession how I want (these are from my latest match, a 4-0 victory against Wolves):

Additionally, overall, I'm getting a decent variety of goals, but relatively few from long distance, and a relatively equal number of assists from crossing and through balls (this is for the first half of my current season):

They're broadly playing how I expect Liverpool to play, and that's a good thing. I'm still working on Firmino mostly (as I'd like him to drop deeper, and I'm trying out different roles to see which does that best), but otherwise I'm very happy with the tactic in terms of how much it looks like Klopp's set-up for Liverpool, and how it's being acted out in the ME.

[emil_sbn]

@JordanMillward_1 Have you tried him in a false nine role?

[Sharkn20]

The whole season like this... I mean... Conversion rate needs improving.

[JordanMilly]

2 minutes ago, emil_sbn said:

@JordanMillward_1 Have you tried him in a false nine role?

Aye, I'd tried both DLF attack and support, and he hasn't moved how I want him to (he rarely holds up the ball, he is almost always moving with it while others move into better positions IRL), so I'm trying him out as a false nine now to see how he goes with it. Happy to post results once he's had a chance to get used to it, it's just very hard to get one role to fit Firmino, because he's a very unique style of striker IRL.

[themadsheep2001]

27 minutes ago, sorrenmills said:

Looks like a perfectly cromulent tactic to me. 

Quite. If people think it's aggressive they might want to look at actual Liverpool pass maps....

It's probably pretty demanding, but then he's playing with a side designed for it of course...

[JordanMilly]

4 minutes ago, themadsheep2001 said:

Quite. If people think it's aggressive they might want to look at actual Liverpool pass maps....

It's probably pretty demanding, but then he's playing with a side designed for it of course...

I also rotate quite frequently and use, especially on the older players who won't develop much more through training, the "rest" option to ensure they're fit again for a match 3 days later.

Just trying out the F9 position for Firmino, and he's dropping as deep as I'd like him to now. I also just got a lovely counter and goal, very much in the vein of the Salah goal against United (except against Villa following a free kick of theirs).

[themadsheep2001]

Just now, JordanMillward_1 said:

I also rotate quite frequently and use, especially on the older players who won't develop much more through training, the "rest" option to ensure they're fit again for a match 3 days later.

Just trying out the F9 position for Firmino, and he's dropping as deep as I'd like him to now. I also just got a lovely counter and goal, very much in the vein of the Salah goal against United (except against Villa following a free kick of theirs).

Lovely. I use Milik as a Roaming false 9. He's a brilliant all round striker and probably one of the best you can get for a reasonable price. 

[emil_sbn]

5 minutes ago, JordanMillward_1 said:

Aye, I'd tried both DLF attack and support, and he hasn't moved how I want him to (he rarely holds up the ball, he is almost always moving with it while others move into better positions IRL), so I'm trying him out as a false nine now to see how he goes with it. Happy to post results once he's had a chance to get used to it, it's just very hard to get one role to fit Firmino, because he's a very unique style of striker IRL.

Firmino is so versatile so I think you could play him in all kinds of roles. If you want him to hold the ball more I´d suggest the pressing forward on support.

[glenjamin]

FM14 was the worst for me. This isn't far behind though. 

[JordanMilly]

15 minutes ago, emil_sbn said:

Firmino is so versatile so I think you could play him in all kinds of roles. If you want him to hold the ball more I´d suggest the pressing forward on support.

Cheers Emil, I appreciate the suggestions. I think I'll have to try him out on a few of the different roles on support, see which flows best with him.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, GOODNAME said:

And one more thing

Even that i dont think this is the worst ME ever , im sick wating to January to get decent ME
 

in FM 21 i will not pre order the game like usual for 10000 % 

What you mean with waiting till January for decent ME?

[Guest]

I think you should focus less on the numbers that don't count. You don't win games with more shots on the goal. You need to score goals and only 1 more then your opponent.

 

[likesiamesefish]

28 minutes ago, Forza#8903 said:

What you mean with waiting till January for decent ME?

Traditionally FM is always a bit dodgy on release (or at least the ME). There is always a final patch after the January transfer window which tends to sort any issues out completely. There have definitely been times in the past where the ME has been terrible on release and they've had to patch it heavily and for a while I'd only buy the game after it went on sale around Christmas. I've been playing FM20 since beta release day on the same save and not had so many problems (at least since they patched wingers shooting from impossible angles) but seems there has been a lot of discontent within the community.

[GOODNAME]

58 minutes ago, JordanMillward_1 said:

I also rotate quite frequently and use, especially on the older players who won't develop much more through training, the "rest" option to ensure they're fit again for a match 3 days later.

Just trying out the F9 position for Firmino, and he's dropping as deep as I'd like him to now. I also just got a lovely counter and goal, very much in the vein of the Salah goal against United (except against Villa following a free kick of theirs).

Lol see how much  brown are the crowd 

Pathetic 

[Tetsuro P12]

1 hour ago, JordanMillward_1 said:

Please then, @Tetsuro P12, as the expert, explain how it isn't logical and shouldn't work. I eagerly await your insights.

Mezzala is a role invented to replace the winger, but need to be sustained by many midfielders (like another two in line plus a DM). Both BBM and Mezzala leave their position and should leave you open to counterattack, no matter the DM. Also two IFs? And shorter passing with two IFs? An higher line with a covering defender (breaking offside)? Lower Tempo with two IFs? It just isn't logical. Also with that player placement the last you should do is to play out of defence. The ME allows you to do it, but would it work in real life? I seriously doubt it. Looks to be my last reply.

Edited January 30, 2020 by Tetsuro P12

[themadsheep2001]

12 minutes ago, Tetsuro P12 said:

Mezzala is a role invented to replace the winger, but need to be sustained by many midfielders (like another two in line plus a DM). Both BBM and Mezzala leave their position and should leave you open to counterattack, no matter the DM. Also two IF? And shorter passing with two IFs? An higher line with a covering defender (breaking offside)? Lower Tempo with two IFs? It just isn't logical.

This is fundamentally wrong:

1) KDB plays as one for City (So does Keita for Liverpool), but they actually use the wide player the Mezzala and to overload the space, see the positioning that KDB takes up. Its what allows them to have basically 5 attackers, still supported by a "midfield" of 3 

2) It's actually no guarantee they leave open, if you're taking care of the ball, winning it back in the right areas, or committing fouls high up the pitch (see both Liverpool and City

3) Two inside fowards? Yes, also see City, and plenty of other teams in Europe

4) Shorter passing has nothing to do with directly picking Inside forwards

5) A higher line does not necessitate playing the offside trap, especially if you're willing and able to win 1 on 1 battles. Cover defenders don't always break offside traps either

6) Lower tempo has nothing to do with directly picking Inside forwards

 

[Freakiie]

He also has an Attacking mentality as a base, so even with the shorter/slower instructions he is still playing relatively fast and direct, simply due to how high those settings inherently are with his mentality.

[JordanMilly]

I'm also not using a higher line for my defenders, only the attackers (to keep the likes of Salah and Mane further up the pitch), and I'm not using an offside trap, so I'm starting to doubt @Tetsuro P12 actually understands either what my tactic is doing, or FM tactics in general.

The way I've found using an Attacking mentality, along with lower tempo and shorter passes, all interact with each other is that the team will recycle the ball a lot in defence and midfield until a gap opens up (retaining possession quite nicely), and once a killer pass or a gap in the line opens up, the attacking players overload the final third and go for a quick score (with the 2 defenders and DM DLP sitting back almost like a 3 back, and the BBM hanging on the edge of the box to go after an opposing player if they manage a tackle and come away with the ball), and if they're not able to score then, the midfield gets hold of the ball again and starts over with the sideways passes to keep possession until another gap opens.

[Tetsuro P12]

1 minute ago, themadsheep2001 said:

This is fundamentally wrong:

1) KDB plays as one for City (So doesn Keita for Liverpool, but they actually use the wide player the Mezzala and to overload the space.

2) It's actually no guarantee they leave open, if you're taking care of the ball, winning it back in the right areas, or committing fouls high up the pitch (see both Liverpool and City

3) Two inside fowards? Yes, also see City, and plenty of other teams in Europe

4) Shorter passing has nothing to do with directly picking Inside forwards

5) A higher line does not necessitate playing the offside trap, especially if you're willing and able to win 1 on 1 battles. Cover defenders don't always break offside traps either

6) Lower tempo has nothing to do with directly picking Inside forwards

 

1. I don't understood what are you referring to, Mezzala is a precise role.

2. It's a guarantee, you are playing with three attackers and a DM (and two WB?!) so that defensive phase is definitely weak.

3. Eventually I don't translate well IF. I translate it as 'Seconda Punta', not 'External Attacker' (so a support role for the striker, not an external attacker... that's a more offensive winger). If the IF isn't a Seconda Punta how do you translate that?

4. With many attackers you want to overturn fastly (counterattacking), that's not done with shorter passing and lower tempo.

5. An higher line make your defence more exposed so you need offside trap, if you break the line a forward insert himself behind the two defenders.

6. Already replied.

[themadsheep2001]

3 minutes ago, JordanMillward_1 said:

I'm also not using a higher line for my defenders, only the attackers (to keep the likes of Salah and Mane further up the pitch), and I'm not using an offside trap, so I'm starting to doubt @Tetsuro P12 actually understands either what my tactic is doing, or FM tactics in general.

The way I've found using an Attacking mentality, along with lower tempo and shorter passes, all interact with each other is that the team will recycle the ball a lot in defence and midfield until a gap opens up (retaining possession quite nicely), and once a killer pass or a gap in the line opens up, the attacking players overload the final third and go for a quick score (with the 2 defenders and DM DLP sitting back almost like a 3 back, and the BBM hanging on the edge of the box to go after an opposing player if they manage a tackle and come away with the ball), and if they're not able to score then, the midfield gets hold of the ball again and starts over with the sideways passes to keep possession until another gap opens.

My Man City replication does similar, though I press overall less than you as I use a split block and dirty fouling higher up the pitch

[sverige91]

5 hours ago, craigcwwe said:

Anyone else seeing pretty much every penalty saved or missed? 

Had 7 pens in just over half a season and scored one. 

Every penalty get saved by GK, if the score is 0-0 1-1 2-2 and My players score very penalty when i am leading by 2-0 or more

[akkm]

1 hour ago, JordanMillward_1 said:

Thanks! In terms of player movement and location, they're broadly where I want them to be, and are recycling the ball and keeping possession how I want (these are from my latest match, a 4-0 victory against Wolves):

Additionally, overall, I'm getting a decent variety of goals, but relatively few from long distance, and a relatively equal number of assists from crossing and through balls (this is for the first half of my current season):

They're broadly playing how I expect Liverpool to play, and that's a good thing. I'm still working on Firmino mostly (as I'd like him to drop deeper, and I'm trying out different roles to see which does that best), but otherwise I'm very happy with the tactic in terms of how much it looks like Klopp's set-up for Liverpool, and how it's being acted out in the ME.

could u post the key passses map from that match

[FrazT]

OK Guys- this is the feedback thread and is not the thread for in-depth tactical discussions.  By all means have these discussions but not in this thread please, as normal feedback will get lost.

[themadsheep2001]

@JordanMillward_1 worth starting a thread in the tactics section, certainly an interesting discussion to be had

[sverige91]

I am frustrated too with the game but there is something positive too 

1: Passing is very good, playing out of defence and combining. 

2: Pressing is wonderful to watch year, actually Pressing and Passing this year are Great 

3: I like throughballs this year too, Good Passing players this year are GOOD PASSING PLAYERS

And I understand the pain of OP

Problem is with strikers and super-human goalkeepers and I totally agree with point that Opposition only shot get past my goalkeeper easily and I am left chasing whole game, where opposition goalkeeper saves everything from 1vs1, Headers from 2m maybe to rebounds and even sometimes open goal. I just pray that hope i dont concede first because then there is 75% chance that i will get a draw 

When your striker keep missing everything than you start to question The game and Me. 

One more thing is frustrating that when you dominte the game and get a draw, in match commentry you read "XX Team cant believe that draw this game" 

And last thing, i have noticed that is this forum everything is YOUR FAULT, When the SI said that 1vs1 is a issue but my friend CFULLER is resufing to admit that, he is still saying that FAULT is your tactic

How can you say to your forward, Please take your chances? Or maybe pass vertically to second striker who is almost free to score a tap-in.

OP Problem is that he cant score with his lots of chances but opposition score with their, when is ME is supposed to be same for AI and The Player? 

Edited January 31, 2020 by sverige91
Forget the question mark at the end

[Welshace]

2 minutes ago, sverige91 said:

I am frustrated too with the game but there is something positive too 

1: Passing is very good, playing out of defence and combining. 

2: Pressing is wonderful to watch year, actually Pressing and Passing this year are Great 

3: I like throughballs this year too, Good Passing players this year are GOOD PASSING PLAYERS

And I understand the pain of OP

Problem is with strikers and super-human goalkeepers and I totally agree with point that Opposition only shot get past my goalkeeper easily and I am left chasing whole game, where opposition goalkeeper saves everything from 1vs1, Headers from 2m maybe to rebounds and even sometimes open goal. I just pray that hope i dont concede first because then there is 75% chance that i will get a draw 

When your striker keep missing everything than you start to question The game and Me. 

One more thing is frustrating that when you dominte the game and get a draw, in match commentry you read "XX Team cant believe that draw this game" 

And last thing, i have noticed that is this forum everything is YOUR FAULT, When the SI said that 1vs1 is a issue but my friend CFULLER is resufing to admit that, he is still saying that FAULT is your tactic

How can you say to your forward, Please take your chances? Or maybe pass vertically to second striker who is almost free to score a tap-in.

OP Problem is that he cant score with his lots of chances but opposition score with their, when is ME is same for AI and The Player 

Which is why @CFuller is suggesting OP shouldn't blame the game.... if the AI is scoring fine, then the user should be able to aswell.. it's that simple...

[JordanMilly]

1 hour ago, akkm said:

could u post the key passses map from that match

Those are my key passes for the match, 13 of them. (66=Trent, 32=Matip, 3=Fabinho, 14=Hendo, 15=Oxlade-Chamberlain, 11=Salah)

1 hour ago, themadsheep2001 said:

@JordanMillward_1 worth starting a thread in the tactics section, certainly an interesting discussion to be had

Good point, I'm just heading to bed and I'm not back from work until about 7pm tomorrow (it's fun having to travel 2 hours to London each way ), but I'll set a post up there tomorrow, and with that the discussion about the tactic ends. Once I get around to making that post, I can always link it.

[davehanson]

As I said a few posts back I haven't touched the game now for about 2 weeks. When the beta dropped I tried it for nearly half a season before I came to the conclusion that it was as bad in it's own way as the retail ME. Before the beta dropped I hadn't played the game in over a month due to the ME. I seriously doubt I will play the game again, which I hate, but there you go.

When you say @Welshace that the AI is doing it so the user should as well I agree with you, we should. However, I would love to see anyone who has had any remote success with a counter or defensive tactic in FM20. It is obvious from @andysafc screenshots that the AI would have been using one of those 2 mentalities. But I have been totally unable to get either of them working correctly, I would get absolutely battered. I have yet to also see any uploaded tactics using either mentality. Yet to see any youtube videos/twitch streams etc using them. Even the 'tactical masterminds' have stayed clear of them. Years ago I remember Cleon doing multiple threads, excellent write ups, on using defensive mentalities and how he would still win games in a positive fashion. You just can't do that anymore - yet the AI seem to be able to.

So to me, going back to the OP point, we have to play the way the game wants us to play. This is the reason I have stopped playing - imo it just isn't a simulation anymore if you are forced to do this. It becomes almost a scripted game in so much as you have to play a certain way to win. Don't get me wrong, when I was playing the game I won plenty, but I couldn't do it the way I wanted to do it.

Edited January 31, 2020 by davehanson

[sverige91]

3 minutes ago, Welshace said:

Which is why @CFuller is suggesting OP shouldn't blame the game.... if the AI is scoring fine, then the user should be able to aswell.. it's that simple...

But the question is why dont they do it when ME is suppose to be same? Why dont his strike score? When the striker is 1vs1 goalkeeper, i dont think that any tactic matter because strikers job is to score goals, we dont specify how strike should shoot, OP tactic should not matter when is one vs ONE. I THINK the skill of The striker or goalkeeper should deteminate the outcome, dont you think that? 

Getting dominated and losing doesnt hurt FM Player but dominating and drawing or losing is very frustrating because player keeps missing 

[Tiger666]

4 minutes ago, davehanson said:

As I said a few posts back I haven't touched the game now for about 2 weeks. When the beta dropped I tried it for nearly half a season before I came to the conclusion that it was as bad in it's own way as the retail ME. Before the beta dropped I hadn't played the game in over a month due to the ME. I seriously doubt I will play the game again, which I hate, but there you go.

When you say @Welshace that the AI is doing it so the user should as well I agree with you, we should. However, I would love to see anyone who has had any remote success with a counter or defensive tactic in FM20. It is obvious from @andysafc screenshots that the AI would have been using one of those 2 mentalities. But I have been totally unable to get either of them working correctly, I would get absolutely battered. I have yet to also see any uploaded tactics using either mentality. Yet to see any youtube videos/twitch streams etc using them. Even the 'tactical masterminds' have stayed clear of them. Years ago I remember Cleon doing multiple threads, excellent write ups, on using defensive mentalities and how he would still win games in a positive fashion. You just can't do that anymore - yet the AI seem to be able to.

So to me, going back to the OP point, we have to play the way the game wants us to play. This is the reason I have stopped playing - imo it just isn't a simulation anymore if you are forced to do this. It becomes almost a scripted game in so much as you have to play a certain way to win. Don't get me wrong, when I was playing the game I won plenty, but I couldn't do it the way I wanted to do it.

Aggressive attacking pressing tactics are far too powerful now. Sitting back and hitting teams on the counter just doesn't work like it used to.

[Nick_CB]

My AMC works, good night