Injuries? Yes, fix needed

[Jusander]

Like I said earlier, I have never noticed such a bug in game and Iv'e played the series thousands of hours each year so if there was such a bug I for sure should have experienced it. I rarely have more than 2 first team injures at a time and during this thousands of hours of game play I've only had some serious injury problems couple of times, which I find realistic anyway.

If you are getting that ~10 injuries each save and all the time then there's obviously something wrong with how you handle your players and their fitness. I always give a day off from training after a match, except during the off season, and most of my players have average workload. Some players I give heavy workload because I know they can handle it, but I never put them under very heavy workload.

I also bring plenty of physios to my teams each time. A minimum of 4 and usually I end up having like 10 later in the game because I have room for more first team staff and there's no point getting more coaches after a certain point anyway. Physios are generally cheap to have and worth every penny. Keep in mind that Physiotherapy is not the only attribute to pay attention to when picking your physios. I personally pay attention to determination and discipline also, although I am not 100% discipline does anything. Fitness training might have some effect too when you think about it. I also rotate couple of players pretty much each game and I aim to never play players under 94-95% condition unless I have to. This is all something you should concider.

[cynet]

Injuries fixed courtesy of FMTRE

I only use this software these days to remove the injuries and suspensions!

[Eskiboy]

I always give players a days rest after matches through the training screen, I use average intensity training during the course of the season if there are games every two-three days I rotate and give players a rest from training to generally keep them above 90% condition and generally come the 60th minute in games I will sub off anyone who has deteriorated quite badly. Couple that with a low tempo, standing off game and I see hardly any injuries, in truth I don't see as many injuries as I should do. I rarely have more than 1 or 2 players injured - it can be very easy to manage your squads fitness if you go about it carefully.

Sometimes i've had to use all my subs before the 60th minute because of injuries.

I think maybe my problem is different than the ones you're seeing here. I seem to find the game keeps forcing my players off during the game. After the game there is about 70% chance there will be nothing wrong with them and i wont even get a message about them. I think i have to take atleast one player off every second game.

I have looked at my training, fitness and physio, match fitness and condition. I can't see why i'm getting so many forced injuries every other game.

[Sky]

One thing I have definitely noticed in this year's FM is that many injuries occur as a result of a poor attempted tackle, ie your player tries to slide in on someone and ends up hurting himself. I'm assuming that if you put a finesse type of player like Mata into a midfield position where you normally have instructions to close down aggressively and get stuck in, then he will have a higher chance of injuring himself than if you put a strong midfield enforcer type.

[HUNT3R]

I have looked at my training, fitness and physio, match fitness and condition. I can't see why i'm getting so many forced injuries every other game.

The Tactics and Training forum is there if you need advice. Just supply all the info you can.

[BoxToBox]

I just had two players injured in a match, my star striker 2 minutes after being subbed on. Time to riot!

[isignedupfornorealreason]

Both sides are sticking to one extreme of the argument as usual, can't we just meet in the middle? >_<

How about this;

There isn't an injury bug, because the amount of injuries over the course of a season is generally lower in FM than it is in reality. A number of factors can contribute to the amount of injuries at any given time; a lack of match fitness, high intensity training, high intensity tactics, which may require a lot of running - so high closing down, high pressing, etc.

On the other hand (because a lot of the moderator posts seem to imply that its always the user's fault); you can have light intensity training, a generally 'soft' tactic that doesn't exert the players too much and STILL end up with 13+ injuries. Hell, I did. But it's manageable if you keep tabs on fitness via rotating and generally keep an eye out for knocks.

I'm actually quite happy to see more injuries in the match, those minor knocks that lead to no time out but require a sub anyway.

A more relevant complaint, in my opinion, is the 'knock on' effect of injuries that SI may have overlooked. For example, players demanding first team football because they've been excluded on the basis of match fitness in order to prevent a cycle of injuries. Now, that, in my view is something worth investigating because, it's annoying having to manage players complaining about something that isn't entirely your fault. :0

[forameuss]

Both sides are sticking to one extreme of the argument as usual, can't we just meet in the middle? >_<

How about this;

There isn't an injury bug, because the amount of injuries over the course of a season is generally lower in FM than it is in reality. A number of factors can contribute to the amount of injuries at any given time; a lack of match fitness, high intensity training, high intensity tactics, which may require a lot of running - so high closing down, high pressing, etc.

On the other hand (because a lot of the moderator posts seem to imply that its always the user's fault); you can have light intensity training, a generally 'soft' tactic that doesn't exert the players too much and STILL end up with 13+ injuries. Hell, I did. But it's manageable if you keep tabs on fitness via rotating and generally keep an eye out for knocks.

I'm actually quite happy to see more injuries in the match, those minor knocks that lead to no time out but require a sub anyway.

A more relevant complaint, in my opinion, is the 'knock on' effect of injuries that SI may have overlooked. For example, players demanding first team football because they've been excluded on the basis of match fitness in order to prevent a cycle of injuries. Now, that, in my view is something worth investigating because, it's annoying having to manage players complaining about something that isn't entirely your fault. :0

But that would cover the "bad luck" element, which appears in pretty much every post that you're mentioning from that side.

I'm also not sure there is a middle to meet. There either is a bug, or there isn't. (there isn't)

[milnerpoint]

What i am seeing is players getting injuries at strange times. Usually when tackling or competing for headers, players also take a lot more "knocks" in this years one, ie green arrow injuries, that 90% of the time dont require a sub and usually means the player doesnt miss the next game. Longer term injuries seem ok to me tho. Although i used the in game editor to remove an injury from James McFadden only for him to go down with a torn hamstring the next game, so removed that and he did his knee the very next game, but it is James Mcfadden....

[HUNT3R]

On the other hand (because a lot of the moderator posts seem to imply that its always the user's fault); you can have light intensity training, a generally 'soft' tactic that doesn't exert the players too much and STILL end up with 13+ injuries. Hell, I did. But it's manageable if you keep tabs on fitness via rotating and generally keep an eye out for knocks.

I wouldn't go with light intensity training because that's just asking for trouble. There's more than just training anyway. Match Fitness and injury prone players are a factor too. Bad luck as well, as forameuss mentioned.

If you're always have 8+ players injured, that's more than likely you, unless the players are injury prone. If it's just a spell, it could be you, it could be bad luck.

[sirgiorgio]

The way I see it:

Some managers / (head) coaches do not like to rotate the team and want to have the same 14-15 players always fit and ready to play. Let's call these managers "Type A".

Other managers / (head) coaches don't think there should be "key players" or "backup players". It doesn't matter who you are, you have to be in the best possible physical condition. "Type B".

Type A managers don't want to deal with many injured players, in fact they try to find THE perfect balance between match played and training (of course, it's not always possible, as players are not robots and may not be "model professionals").

Type B managers usually don't care about injuries, as long as every remaining player in the first team, from the star striker to the third-choice goalkeeper, is potentially ready to play in the next match.

If you want a real life example, check Juventus. Last year, with Conte as the manager, you barely saw a "backup" in the starting eleven, and yet they managed to win the league with a record 102 points and to reach the EL semi-finals. The only first team players who had injury problems were Pirlo (35 years old, out for about a month), Barzagli and Vidal (both injured near the end of the season, presumably stress injuries).

Now their manager is Allegri and since July everything seems to fall apart: Pirlo already out twice, and Barzagli and Vidal again, Caceres and Marrone twice, Chiellini, Ogbonna, Asamoah, Evra (that is: all their left backs), Morata out for a month during his first ever training session with his new team... "No big deal", says Allegri, "If I don't have any more left backs, I'll play a backup player out of position". And the results are: Juventus have the same points as last season, scored more and conceded less.

That's what I would like to see in the game: are you "Type A" or "Type B"? Do you want a "full metal jacket" style of training or would you prefer a more conservative, "health first" approach? Do you treat all players as equals or do you cut someone some slack? And what about your coaches?

(Why is "hardness on training" an hidden attribute and why can't you find it out, even after repeated conversations, meetings, and so on...)

There are pros and cons: cons of the "Type A" approach is that you'll have many unfit backup players (and probably angry about lack of first team football); cons of the "Type B" approach is that you'll have many injured players (and probably angry about the high training workload). And then of course there are nasty challenges, bad luck, injury prone players (although I don't like the injury proneness idea...). But the point is, you should be able to decide your approach to the training, otherwise, every year, there'll be people complaining about too many/too few injuries... And, in general, every injury will be seen as The curse of the God of Football (Manager).

[bny75]

I just uploaded a Save called "11NOV too many injuries" on the Sigames Server.

I have been playing FM since it was called Championship Manager and I have thousand of hours of experience with this game. This is he first time I have that many injuries. It made we want to quit playing the game altogether.

Whether this is a bug or not is irrelevant to me: it alters my experience as a player. I have games with 2 injured players, and it seems that every other game, one of my player get injured.

The only fact that Sigames has to give clues to explain here how to have fewer injuries to experience players tells me there is a problem. This version may be closer to reality but I believe it becomes a bug when it gets annoying. And it drives me nuts!

[Cougar2010]

This version may be closer to reality but I believe it becomes a bug when it gets annoying. And it drives me nuts!

Well you would be wrong.

Its a bug when SI deem it to be a bug and that is unlikely to happen unless injuries over time are significantly more common than RL.

[HUNT3R]

I just uploaded a Save called "11NOV too many injuries" on the Sigames Server.

I have been playing FM since it was called Championship Manager and I have thousand of hours of experience with this game. This is he first time I have that many injuries. It made we want to quit playing the game altogether.

Whether this is a bug or not is irrelevant to me: it alters my experience as a player. I have games with 2 injured players, and it seems that every other game, one of my player get injured.

The only fact that Sigames has to give clues to explain here how to have fewer injuries to experience players tells me there is a problem. This version may be closer to reality but I believe it becomes a bug when it gets annoying. And it drives me nuts!

Did you create a thread as asked?

[bny75]

I just created a thread.

Also, I believe the only question is not only how many injuries a team have but when they happen. I think, injuries happen too often during a game, even without a high pressure tactic and players in great conditions.

[HUNT3R]

I just created a thread.

Also, I believe the only question is not only how many injuries a team have but when they happen. I think, injuries happen too often during a game, even without a high pressure tactic and players in great conditions.

I get 1 a game at most, if I'm really unlucky. I haven't yet had to take off more than 1.

[QWERTYOP]

They're really still saying there's nothing wrong with injuries? Good Lord.

[HUNT3R]

They're really still saying there's nothing wrong with injuries? Good Lord.

What's the problem? There isn't an injury issue, but the SI guys have been nice enough to ask people with issues to upload their saves. If you have an injury problem, ask advice or upload your save.

[albi]

a player from a team I was playing against injured DURING KICK-OFF. he just passed the ball to his teammate and went down. I do believe there's a randomness about injuries right now, you might say that's realistic, but really it's not.

[martplfc1]

I've just played my first premiership games of the season. My injury list at the moment is:

Lovren - fractured wrist

Balo - broken ankle

Lallana - just recovering from his pre-set knee injury

I have noticed a slight increase in players taking knocks, but that might be because I'm keeping a close eye on this thread. Another, more likely, reason is that about 80% of my first team are not yet match fit, ie below 90%. The injuries I am seeing tend to be to those players taking a knock in a game and having to come off. They're usually fine afterwards though. Hopefully this will become more reduced when match fitness increases.

[Jimmious7]

I have no issues with injuries and I'm playing in a low level(second division of Romania, a team touted to be favorite for relegation). I actually think that they are less than last year.

[dudefan]

Concerning the injuries.

I think the frequency is perfect, the problem is that injuries happen too often during matches instead of training injuries. That's why people complain.

Several times one player got injured and the sub got injured also 5 min later. This is weird. also had 4 injuries during a game etc.

I understand that training etc. influences the injury frequency, but i think some balancing towards training injuries would be good.

This doesn't mean to tone down the frequency, since i think overall it is realistic.

[forameuss]

Concerning the injuries.

I think the frequency is perfect, the problem is that injuries happen too often during matches instead of training injuries. That's why people complain.

Several times one player got injured and the sub got injured also 5 min later. This is weird. also had 4 injuries during a game etc.

I understand that training etc. influences the injury frequency, but i think some balancing towards training injuries would be good.

This doesn't mean to tone down the frequency, since i think overall it is realistic.

Agree with what you're saying kind of, but you'd probably still get people complaining if they were balanced throughout matches and training. At least with matches, you can kind of see where the injury came from. Training is just a big black box in that sense.

Having said that, I'm in complete agreement that the existing injuries could be better balanced throughout training and matches.

[dudefan]

Agree with what you're saying kind of, but you'd probably still get people complaining if they were balanced throughout matches and training. At least with matches, you can kind of see where the injury came from. Training is just a big black box in that sense.

Having said that, I'm in complete agreement that the existing injuries could be better balanced throughout training and matches.

People will never stop complaining ^^

[rich10]

Picking up seemingly random injuries that you don't feel is a direct consequence of your own actions can be very frustrating, but that's how it happens.

I've noticed more frequent lighter injuries than in previous versions, which I think more accurately reflects real life. It's more often than not strains or knocks and they are out for 9-12 days (for example). Almost every injury I used to get in earlier versions would result in 3-4 weeks without that player.

[HUNT3R]

Instead of just saying there are too many/few injuries, add some information about what your training settings are and what the condition AND match fitness of the affected players are.

[Kriss]

I haven't seen any players getting injured in the warm up, need to get that added.

[Figgis]

I think people need to look at their training methods. I like others was having a horrendous time with injuries (Training very high intensity/not resting after game in pre season). After reading a Reply from SI about lowering different aspects of training i find that the injury situation has sorted itself out. I still get injuries it is to be expected but none more that would make me believe that there is an injury bug. Post No3 in this thread.

[HUNT3R]

I think people need to look at their training methods. I like others was having a horrendous time with injuries (Training very high intensity/not resting after game in pre season). After reading a Reply from SI about lowering different aspects of training i find that the injury situation has sorted itself out. I still get injuries it is to be expected but none more that would make me believe that there is an injury bug. Post No3 in this thread.

To maybe help others (and hopefully get some discussion going), could you tell us what you had before and what your training is set to now?

[Figgis]

When i first started the game i had General Training on Tactics, Intensity V High and No rest after game. these setting were all Pre season in an effort to get Tactics upto fluid as quickly as possible. Two or Three games into league matches i read Post No 3 in this thread.

Once my Tactics were upto Fluid (Getting to Fluid quicker seems to have improved since FM14) i then dropped General Training to Balanced, Intensity to Average and allowed Rest after Match. My only concern was that dropping Intensity to Average might affect the Tactics fluidity but fingers crossed 12 games this appears not to have happened.

[HUNT3R]

Thank you. Just a side note: Tactical (general training on the left) doesn't affect Tactical Fluidity. Training tactics as part of your match prep, on the left, is what raises it.

[sirgiorgio]

Man Utd... 35 injuries... Do you think their coaches are stupid? I think they have dozens of years of experience and they knew what they were doing when they chose their training methods. Of course they might be wrong and you cannot predict the subject, time and place of an injury, but I'm sure they calculated risks and rewards of their methods. It's not rocket science,but it is sports SCIENCE, and it's much more complicated than "it's a bug" / "it's your training".

Are too many injuries necessarily a bad thing? Are too few injuries necessarily a good thing? Do you see recurring players/injuries? How does training affect performances? Until someone in the know answers these questions, we can only speculate.

[RTHerringbone]

Any other FMC players about (apart from me and Kriss)?

I leave my training to my assistant unless I want to train a specific PPM, and haven't noticed an injury problem on any of my saves. I've lost both Tadic and Mane at the same time with Saints and have had to use Long and Bertrand out of position, but have never had a real selection crisis.

[Lawlore]

One thing I would say, and I appreciate it probably brings me into "absolute tosh" territory, is that trying to balance levels through the season could mean that in some saves there will be a lot of injuries very quickly at the start of the season, especially since most will start preseason with virtually none. The injury rate doesn't remain constant exponentially- not one person has posted that they had to use grey players to fill a match squad. So while you may suddenly go from 0 to 8 injuries at the season start, you don't then go to 16 two weeks in. Of course, everyone starts the game at season start, so if you do suffer from suddenly getting a lot, it feels like a bug. In actuality, it's the game getting to a level to make the average work across the league and season.

So, I wouldn't say it's a bug. I'd say it's modelled a little poorly- suddenly getting 8 injuries is unrealistic, but having 8 injuries is not.

[themadsheep2001]

One thing I would say, and I appreciate it probably brings me into "absolute tosh" territory, is that trying to balance levels through the season could mean that in some saves there will be a lot of injuries very quickly at the start of the season, especially since most will start preseason with virtually none. The injury rate doesn't remain constant exponentially- not one person has posted that they had to use grey players to fill a match squad. So while you may suddenly go from 0 to 8 injuries at the season start, you don't then go to 16 two weeks in. Of course, everyone starts the game at season start, do if you do suffer from suddenly getting a lot, it feels like a bug. In actuality, it's the game getting to a level to make the average work across the league and season.

So, I wouldn't say it's a bug. I'd say it's modelled a little poorly- suddenly getting 8 injuries is unrealistic, but having 8 injuries is not.

And thats the kind of save that should be uploaded too

[AIK]

I'm fine the amount of injuries. I think it's a good balance. However, I think that broken bones may be a little too common. I've only played a half season and I've had two broken bone (lower) already. It's five years ago that my team had a broken bone IRL.

[LCpl]

It's a pleasant change to need to have to manage a squad properly as a result of niggles and injuries. I get very few unhappy players as the squad rotation opportunities across the season are more realistic as a result of injuries. In previous iterations of this game I've been able to unrealistically pick the same 11 almost every game.

For those who don't want reality, an editor is available?

[BoxToBox]

Any other FMC players about (apart from me and Kriss)?

Present.

Only a handful of significant injuries 3.5 years in at Bradford City. I have more active control over my teams training, though.

[HUNT3R]

One thing I would say, and I appreciate it probably brings me into "absolute tosh" territory, is that trying to balance levels through the season could mean that in some saves there will be a lot of injuries very quickly at the start of the season, especially since most will start preseason with virtually none. The injury rate doesn't remain constant exponentially- not one person has posted that they had to use grey players to fill a match squad. So while you may suddenly go from 0 to 8 injuries at the season start, you don't then go to 16 two weeks in. Of course, everyone starts the game at season start, so if you do suffer from suddenly getting a lot, it feels like a bug. In actuality, it's the game getting to a level to make the average work across the league and season.

So, I wouldn't say it's a bug. I'd say it's modelled a little poorly- suddenly getting 8 injuries is unrealistic, but having 8 injuries is not.

I disagree with this. I started a save very recently in the Romanian 2nd Div (so poor facilities, coaches and players) and I haven't had many injures at all. Had 3 or 4 out max and it accumulated over time. Right now, I have 2 out injured and the season has just started. You won't be getting 8 injuries just because SI is trying to keep numbers on par. If you're getting that many out, that quickly, I'd say that's beyond unlucky. That's user input that led to it and brings us back to Neil's post at #3.

Still, if anyone has a save like this, upload it!

[Lawlore]

Oh, I'm by no means suggesting this is the definite reason, and I haven't experienced a especially high injury rate myself, in neither FM15 nor any predecessor for that matter. However, just anecdotally from my own experience, it has always felt like there is a sudden rush of injuries- even if only 3 or 4- at the start of a season, which isn't replicated at any other point in-season. And, by the end of the season, most injuries are clear- only long, long term ones keep someone injured all summer. So this means that again you're starting the new season at 0, so again, you get the rush at the start of the next season to get to a realistic in-season level of injuries.

As I say, that could be absolute tosh, I freely admit I have nothing to back it up other than it being my own conclusions drawn from just playing the game. It's not something I've ever devoted much time, attention or interest to, or something that's ever concerned me that much. Injuries happen, SI have shown they're in line with the real world, that's good enough for me.

[HUNT3R]

Oh, I'm by no means suggesting this is the definite reason, and I haven't experienced a especially high injury rate myself, in neither FM15 nor any predecessor for that matter. However, just anecdotally from my own experience, it has always felt like there is a sudden rush of injuries- even if only 3 or 4- at the start of a season, which isn't replicated at any other point in-season. And, by the end of the season, most injuries are clear- only long, long term ones keep someone injured all summer. So this means that again you're starting the new season at 0, so again, you get the rush at the start of the next season to get to a realistic in-season level of injuries.

As I say, that could be absolute tosh, I freely admit I have nothing to back it up other than it being my own conclusions drawn from just playing the game. It's not something I've ever devoted much time, attention or interest to, or something that's ever concerned me that much. Injuries happen, SI have shown they're in line with the real world, that's good enough for me.

There's one thing that stands out for me when comparing start of the season to any other time - Match Fitness.

From what I've seen so far, users aren't treating players lacking match fitness correctly. They're going to struggle to get through a whole game until they're fitter and the lower condition in a match will increase the chance of an injury. I've seen a few who start off with intense training as well, again not a good thing when players aren't close to being match fit.

[BoxToBox]

Pre season for me is always Balanced/Average, and every other game gets a full squad rotation.

[cleaner475]

I tend to have only around 4-6 injuries at a time, which as I'm playing with Arsenal is very low

It's more than tolerable and definitely more realistic. Overall I think the problem is that people just don't adjust between FM versions, they seem to think you can play the exact same way year on year despite the SI guys changing a lot of stuff under the hood. For example this year players don't recover to 100% between every match anymore, and all of this has a knock-on effect. It means you have to rotate your squad and use all the players which you haven't really needed to do in some previous iterations as injury crises were very rare.

You always get a lot of people who seem to think that because they've been playing the game for 20 years they know what they're doing, and won't ask for advice, instead it's obviously the game that needs to change and not how they play.

I just don't understand how the OP thinks 6 injuries isn't normal.

[Cometdude]

Any other FMC players about (apart from me and Kriss)?

I leave my training to my assistant unless I want to train a specific PPM, and haven't noticed an injury problem on any of my saves. I've lost both Tadic and Mane at the same time with Saints and have had to use Long and Bertrand out of position, but have never had a real selection crisis.

I play FMC exclusively and have only noticed injuries when I have had high intensity training, Very high tempo tactics, low fitness players or bad weather. If I leave the assistant to handle training then I have very few training ground injuries.

My starting 11 have been (touch wood) fairly bullet proof otherwise. If players aren't playing regularly then make them available for the reserves. Keeps their match fitness up and means less injuries when you throw them on as a late sub.

[cwvink]

a player from a team I was playing against injured DURING KICK-OFF. he just passed the ball to his teammate and went down. I do believe there's a randomness about injuries right now, you might say that's realistic, but really it's not.

Haha, that happened to one of my players as well, the other day. Hilarious.

[Linie]

Any other FMC players about (apart from me and Kriss)?

I leave my training to my assistant unless I want to train a specific PPM, and haven't noticed an injury problem on any of my saves. I've lost both Tadic and Mane at the same time with Saints and have had to use Long and Bertrand out of position, but have never had a real selection crisis.

Below high training injuries seem to be ok. But if at high (and every 2 weeks window of no games calls for that) it is notably higher for me, subjectively.

[bigmick91]

Im at the end of pre season in my first season with 14/35 players injured. About half are 2-4 months. All training has been on average and have been using close down more in tactics. I would say evey game a player has gone down injured. How am i meant to get match fitness up when players just get injured. So frustrating!

[HUNT3R]

Im at the end of pre season in my first season with 14/35 players injured. About half are 2-4 months. All training has been on average and have been using close down more in tactics. I would say evey game a player has gone down injured. How am i meant to get match fitness up when players just get injured. So frustrating!

How many minutes do you give players lacking match fitness in a game?

[Preveza]

There's no injury bug in game, the levels in game are if anything, slightly low compared to real life.

Things which increase injuries in game:

High training intensity

Non-match fit players playing matches

High intensity tactics

Injury prone players

Bad luck

If you see the Premier league injury table, you can see they're quite high - http://www.physioroom.com/news/engli...jury_table.php

Already this season, Man Utd have had 35 injuries and we're not even in December yet.

Definitely agree with Neill. Bad luck is a sad part of injuries IRL. Looking at my beloved Collingwood in the AFL here in Australia, we were having a horrid run with injuries in 2014, mostly soft tissue. It just happens im afraid.

[hluraven]

Just finished my first season. Never had more than 3 players out at one time, never had more than one injured in a game (and I played 66 games in the season). Only one long-term injury, which was 2-3 months to a player in on loan.

In every FM ever, not enough injuries. I am obsessive about squad rotation, and always use my subs to replace tired players (3 subs around 60 minute mark, never in FM15 have I gone down to 10 men after doing that). I leave training entirely to my assistant, so I'm not affecting anything there either.