Svenc Posted September 8, 2012 Share Posted September 8, 2012 Sending my assistant isn't an option either because the game makes you face the reality. I don't know what you mean to say with this. Either way, another good use beyond catering to those overwhelmed with the core FM experience would be the multiplayer parts of the game, particularly online. Playing with multiple players takes a lot more time, naturally. Does FMC support network and internet modes of play too? And seeing how the challenge mode was largely influenced by the mobile versions of FM: Can the challenge mode only be played the FMC way or the full-fledged game mode too? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
milnerpoint Posted September 8, 2012 Share Posted September 8, 2012 Which was exactly what it was like on the old CMs, unless you used the 'same name as the current national manager' cheat Jesus, that is showing your age! I had completely forgotten about that! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
aiston Posted September 8, 2012 Share Posted September 8, 2012 I can see Football Manager getting DLC's now or in the very near future. Starting with the Challenges. Hopefully SI won't go as far as being lazy, releasing "half a game". Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo Beckham Posted September 8, 2012 Share Posted September 8, 2012 The people who moan about stuff should either stop moaning and learn how to make the complex features they are looking for or just not buy the game, I think there should be a separate thread for negativity cos I am sick of the moaning on here, I am really looking forward to buying FM2013. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tigerhgrrrrrr Posted September 8, 2012 Share Posted September 8, 2012 If the arrows were returned simply as a graphical representation of your instructions, I'd love it. They should probably be linked to mentality and wide play imo. Thats my thinking. But why not have the arrows logically adjusting the player instructions also? The problem with arrows before was silly arrows (unnatural movements), surely the game could prevent certain arrow configurations or punish by player condition penalties any overly long arrows? Really cant be undoable - can it? Some of the BGS CM's had different coloured arrows for runs & feeds (another idea that could be utilised). Ultimately I should like to see elliptical envelopes of movement (a totally ajustable & definable ellipse that is overlayed centred on each player individually showing their sphere or movement). How strctly a player adheres to it would of course depend on in-match circumstances & player discipline / positional awareness. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ackter Posted September 8, 2012 Share Posted September 8, 2012 Feel free to start a thread discussing it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tigerhgrrrrrr Posted September 8, 2012 Share Posted September 8, 2012 Feel free to start a thread discussing it. Have just added it to the Wishlist thread, that should suffice. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
georginho_juventusygr Posted September 8, 2012 Share Posted September 8, 2012 I don't know what you mean to say with this. Either way, another good use beyond catering to those overwhelmed with the core FM experience would be the multiplayer parts of the game, particularly online. Playing with multiple players takes a lot more time, naturally. Does FMC support network and internet modes of play too? And seeing how the challenge mode was largely influenced by the mobile versions of FM: Can the challenge mode only be played the FMC way or the full-fledged game mode too? If you were a coach, you would attend press conferences. FM is made to reflect the reality. Once you play it, you're pulled into its world and reality. You wouldn't send your assistant. In the old days, you didn't have press conferences. You're not asked to attend anything. The multiplayer parts will do just fine with FM. Looking at previous editions, if FM Classic has a multiplayer feature, it will also do just fine. Online players won't bother too much with details. FM is made for the majority of the gamers. The multiplayer part is made for people who want to play online. FM Classic is made for people with little time or who want to play it as casual as possible. The challenge mode is for people who want some challenges. These four parts have covered and satisfied most customers. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jayahr Posted September 8, 2012 Share Posted September 8, 2012 So will one be able to change from career mode to classic mode within a save or will one have to decide definitely when starting a save? Will micro-transactions be available in place where the game isn't sold, e.g. Germany, supposing that one will again be able to activate it there after having bought it elsewhere? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dafuge Posted September 8, 2012 Share Posted September 8, 2012 So will one be able to change from career mode to classic mode within a save or will one have to decide definitely when starting a save? I very much doubt it, it looks like they are two separate games. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jayahr Posted September 8, 2012 Share Posted September 8, 2012 I very much doubt it, it looks like they are two separate games. Yeah, checked some of the links and had the same impression. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dresden Posted September 8, 2012 Share Posted September 8, 2012 *shrug* more features and revamps to secondary areas, all the while the braindead transfer AI turns every long game into Long Live The Player - meh. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
higgins Posted September 8, 2012 Share Posted September 8, 2012 The issue is that while there are options you can leave out, such as some types of news and messages, the options are too many, and even if you leave some options out, you still get overwhelming details.I don't want long press conferences in every match. Sending my assistant isn't an option either because the game makes you face the reality. I don't want three to four news items after every match, including how fans react. I don't want to be reminded about board meetings every two weeks. I don't want agents come to me to offer players every other day. I don't want private chats. I don't want scouts update me every week or two, something I can manage myself twice every year. The list goes on. I remember the days I played everyday with one season finished every week or two even if it was only two to three hours per day. I remember the joy building a team. The list goes on. That is why FM Classic deserves a warm welcome. At least, until it comes out. And you don't have to worry that SI uses many resources for FM Classic while they should fix bugs. It happens every year. Bug here, bug there. It's never done with bug fixing, AI improvements, match-engine improvements, etc. I'm pretty sure even if they employ 1,000 people, they will still release a patch every year. Well, patch, or better, patches aren't a problem if they fix bugs, the problems happen when after 2-3 releases we have the same bugs still present. Or not? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SI Staff PaulC Posted September 8, 2012 SI Staff Share Posted September 8, 2012 Just want to clear up one thing. In terms of the nitty gritty - ie transfers, player progression, match engine etc - FMC mode shares the same codebase as FM and hence is every but as much of a simulation in terms of those areas. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
higgins Posted September 8, 2012 Share Posted September 8, 2012 This is a disgrace. You didn't even define "enough". People want something to play with in their spare time, which may be just two hours per day. With the state of the current FM, it's not fast to finish a season and win achievements. Minutes in those two hours are spent in reading a scout report about your next opponent, attending a press conference, sorting out tactics and players, watching the match, reading three or four frigging news items about the match, including the man of the match and fans' confidence, etc. Back in the old days, it was sorting out the tactics and players, watching the match, and reading one or two news items. And there weren't agents going around to offer clients. I don't need agents. I can look for players by myself. I can see your point, I'm not fond of agents, press conferences or other fringe features, basically cause I think they're poorly implemented and too repetitive, my main concern regarding FMC are the presence of micro-transactions that tend to make the game not realistic. But FMC is not the main game! They say... Ok, I'm well aware of that, but what if unlockables start to generate huge profit for Sega? More resources for the main game or the main game could be left behind? Be worried about the trend mates... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herter Posted September 8, 2012 Share Posted September 8, 2012 I'll pass. From what I see I bet it's more of the same - some changes in the packaging, while the underlying mechanics are still broken. The AI is stupid, 3d ball physics aren't real (goal kicks suck), player processing is slow (on one cpu core), scouting UI is terrible, contracts engine is fundamentally flawed (salary demands depend on your unspent budget) and so on. Love how you can determine all these things before playing they game..hell you havent even seen a video of the game yet.. you have some screenshots and a little text which doesnt mention these things anyway.. you live up to your name (minus asd) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carmi88 Posted September 8, 2012 Share Posted September 8, 2012 You worry far too much Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
georginho_juventusygr Posted September 8, 2012 Share Posted September 8, 2012 Well, patch, or better, patches aren't a problem if they fix bugs, the problems happen when after 2-3 releases we have the same bugs still present. Or not? That comment has been in this forum for longer than five years, i.e., five editions. Users have been frustrated in this forum for longer than six years. We have a bugs forum. People have been posting there since it was created. SI has been listening to the community for years, and they have kept working. When every patch is out, they fix bugs. When you don't see your bug on the list, you complain, and they listen. Some bugs can be patched quickly, but some bugs need time. And I bet that some of the so-called "bugs" are actually AI and match-engine imperfectness. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herter Posted September 8, 2012 Share Posted September 8, 2012 I can see your point, I'm not fond of agents, press conferences or other fringe features, basically cause I think they're poorly implemented and too repetitive, my main concern regarding FMC are the presence of micro-transactions that tend to make the game not realistic.But FMC is not the main game! They say... Ok, I'm well aware of that, but what if unlockables start to generate huge profit for Sega? More resources for the main game or the main game could be left behind? Be worried about the trend mates... If the microtransactions start to generate huge profits for Sega it must mean that people use them and therefor want them.. so your point is invalid.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGreatRadish Posted September 8, 2012 Share Posted September 8, 2012 Firstly, I wasn't looking for some sort of confrontation over this issue, which this thread is borderline becoming. The second part of your post seems to imply I don't have a life of my own and have all the time in the world to play FM, which is laughably not true. Maybe that's my own fault for not being clear in my post. For that I apologise.I 100% believe that the game can be played casually in its current state. There's default training schedules, a tactics creation wizard that takes two minutes and then you really don't have to do anything else apart from sign a few players if you don't want to. After that, you can hit continue and play each match on key highlights and still have fun and success. I myself used to play the game this way in my younger years, but now, thanks mostly to some fantastic posts by SFraser over on the tactics forum, I prefer to go more in depth and treat the game as realistically as possible. In response to the first part of your post I don't disagree that FMC should be implemented, in fact, as I said above, I think it's an excellent marketing strategy for SI to bring in older CM/FM players like yourself back to the game. I do, however, disagree that the advancement of the current career mode of FM won't be affected. As an example, say SI has 50 employees working on the game, and 25 were assigned to the creation and implementation of the new FMC mode and potential microtransaction system, then obviously this means less resources were allocated to improving the current base game: things like bugs, match engine enhancements, improvements to the transfer system, implementation of an innovative form of dynamic CA/PA etc. As a business, I think SI has made a fantastic decision and sales will likely profit from it. But, as a long-time player, even if a vocal minority, I believe I'm entitled to express my concerns with these decisions in respect to the continued development of the game I play and love. Hopefully, I've explained a bit better why that is. I'm sorry that you felt I was being confrontational, but I can assure you my frustration was not directed at you. Somebody else earlier in the thread suggested that FMC was only for people who didn't know how to play FM properly, a cheat-mode if you like. As a very good player of CM/FM for nearly 20 years now, that made me very angry indeed. He was on the end of my grumpy turn, not you. I see what you're saying about FM in its current mode being playable even for those of us short of time. I just don't agree I really can't emphasise just how difficult I find being able to make time for FM and all the other games I love like Combat Mission, Hearts of Iron, F1201x, whatever. When I play I'm in a rush unfortunately. I don't like turning features off, if they're there I feel a compulsion to use them because I know I can get better results than leaving it to the AI. With FMC, the fun factor will come back to FM for me. I'll buy the game now and I wasn't going to, if I'm honest, before this was announced - the first CM/FM title I would have skipped. My opinion is, more sales means more resources long-term, means both camps can be catered for. Win-win. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
georginho_juventusygr Posted September 8, 2012 Share Posted September 8, 2012 I can see your point, I'm not fond of agents, press conferences or other fringe features, basically cause I think they're poorly implemented and too repetitive, my main concern regarding FMC are the presence of micro-transactions that tend to make the game not realistic.But FMC is not the main game! They say... Ok, I'm well aware of that, but what if unlockables start to generate huge profit for Sega? More resources for the main game or the main game could be left behind? Be worried about the trend mates... You worry far too much I agree with this. There will be no way that the actual game will be left behind. And I don't think that the profit will be so significant that SI and SEGA will leave the actual game behind. For examples, look at the first screenshot with the unlockables. No loan restrictions. Who wants that? Only some people. No transfer windows. The same. No sacking. The same again. National management. It isn't important and was never important as a priority of players. FM Classic players still love the reality. They just don't like the overwhelming details. And I don't think FM Classic players will complain as much as many people here. They have to many important things to be worried about. I think SI will just tweak here and there every year. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
higgins Posted September 8, 2012 Share Posted September 8, 2012 That comment has been in this forum for longer than five years, i.e., five editions. Users have been frustrated in this forum for longer than six years. We have a bugs forum. People have been posting there since it was created. SI has been listening to the community for years, and they have kept working. When every patch is out, they fix bugs. When you don't see your bug on the list, you complain, and they listen. Some bugs can be patched quickly, but some bugs need time. And I bet that some of the so-called "bugs" are actually AI and match-engine imperfectness. Just to make an example in FM12 we have a set piece creator that is fairly useless, touch it at your risk cause you could easily exploit holes in the ME, the so called near post corner bug was here since FM 11, at least. How do you define that? Imperfectness? Lots of tactics present in TTF just work cause they exploit other well known bugs in the ME, too imperfectness? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
higgins Posted September 8, 2012 Share Posted September 8, 2012 I agree with this. There will be no way that the actual game will be left behind. And I don't think that the profit will be so significant that SI and SEGA will leave the actual game behind. For examples, look at the first screenshot with the unlockables. No loan restrictions. Who wants that? Only some people. No transfer windows. The same. No sacking. The same again. National management. It isn't important and was never important as a priority of players. FM Classic players still love the reality. They just don't like the overwhelming details. And I don't think FM Classic players will complain as much as many people here. They have to many important things to be worried about. I think SI will just tweak here and there every year. I'm a bit less confident than you, however I agree that moaning is the main weapon of the average FM player:D Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
spankie Posted September 8, 2012 Share Posted September 8, 2012 Just want to clear up one thing. In terms of the nitty gritty - ie transfers, player progression, match engine etc - FMC mode shares the same codebase as FM and hence is every but as much of a simulation in terms of those areas. The match engine will be the same in both modes? Hopefully that includes the match view. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jibby123 Posted September 8, 2012 Share Posted September 8, 2012 The "can't be sacked" cheat sort of intrigues as a fantasy game. I've always wanted to try a different kind of save/game where I can build it from the youth squad without worrying about the first 2-3 seasons in the job even if it meant 2x relegations, which is kind of difficult for obvious reasons at any club I can think of IRL or current/previous FMs. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilT Posted September 8, 2012 Share Posted September 8, 2012 "FM13 Release Date: Friday 5th October" - Zavvi. Best order me a slinky little see-through off-the-shoulder black number to disrobe from for the event, with a large cognac in one hand & a very large 'mouse' in the other ;-) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
georginho_juventusygr Posted September 8, 2012 Share Posted September 8, 2012 Just to make an example in FM12 we have a set piece creator that is fairly useless, touch it at your risk cause you could easily exploit holes in the ME, the so called near post corner bug was here since FM 11, at least.How do you define that? Imperfectness? Lots of tactics present in TTF just work cause they exploit other well known bugs in the ME, too imperfectness? Well, I've known that, and I'm here not to defend SI. I agree it should be sorted out, but I also remember that match engines were exploited before. But SI has been doing their best to fix here and there every year. I never use it myself. Neither have I tweaked my tactics. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shevchenko Posted September 8, 2012 Share Posted September 8, 2012 http://www.vg247.com/2012/09/07/football-manager-2013-interview-addiction-returns/ Football Manager Online, which is our Korean MMO that comes out later in the year FM Online is going to be back? Is there any more info on this? ---- And will there be new features in the FM Editor? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexLightsaber Posted September 8, 2012 Share Posted September 8, 2012 http://www.vg247.com/2012/09/07/football-manager-2013-interview-addiction-returns/FM Online is going to be back? Is there any more info on this? ---- And will there be new features in the FM Editor? FM online is for Korea Only. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve1977beyond Posted September 8, 2012 Share Posted September 8, 2012 Just want to clear up one thing. In terms of the nitty gritty - ie transfers, player progression, match engine etc - FMC mode shares the same codebase as FM and hence is every but as much of a simulation in terms of those areas. Cheers for clarifying this Paul and hope everyone is genned up on this now (including the mods) and we can leave the snidey "it's only an arcade mode" comments alone. Otherwise I'll have to start doing the same and start calling it FM - For People Who Have a Life. Great stuff! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spanky Posted September 8, 2012 Share Posted September 8, 2012 Just want to clear up one thing. In terms of the nitty gritty - ie transfers, player progression, match engine etc - FMC mode shares the same codebase as FM and hence is every but as much of a simulation in terms of those areas. If it's meant to be the same game but requiring less user time/input (which is a great idea), then why take out international management from the start? (unless people want to pay or are talented enough to earn it) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilT Posted September 8, 2012 Share Posted September 8, 2012 "FM13 Release Date: Friday 5th October" - Zavvi. Best order me a slinky little see-through off-the-shoulder black number to disrobe from for the event, with a large cognac in one hand & a very large 'mouse' in the other ;-) I've ordered some matching hot pants - photos to come :-) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timurid Posted September 8, 2012 Share Posted September 8, 2012 Is the japanese league going to be playable in fm13? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mafino Posted September 8, 2012 Share Posted September 8, 2012 I think SI have every right to put in FMC and for the people that say its a bad idea... I have some advice for you... don't play FMC! There are some people who feel the explosion of extra features in the game just prolong their gaming time and they simply don't have the time to pay that much attention to it. There are people who spend a lot of time on it, and there's nothing wrong with that at all. However, there are people who would like to, but simply cannot. FMC comes to the rescue for those people. SI is not trying to appeal to a certain type of gamer, it's appealing to football fans. If you don't think you will play FMC or buy their (unlockable) micro-transactions, then don't play it! If you think FMC is a bad idea, good for you! Because there are people out there who will be more inclined to buy the game because of FMC. Also, Sir Alex Ferguson has had the 'cant be sacked' cheat enabled for 25 years so it's completely realistic [/sarcasm] Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yarunas Posted September 9, 2012 Share Posted September 9, 2012 I have a question about the UI of the game. it seems in screenshots that the font is clearer and bigger ingame. is it true? in fm 2012 (don't remember how it was in 10,11...) the font was too small in my opinion for big resolutions... I know that you can change font's size, but it didn't goes well with the skins. any professional comment about that? thanks. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartsMac1982 Posted September 9, 2012 Share Posted September 9, 2012 I'm just curious as to whether or not FM13 will take advantage of the Steam Cloud feature seen as this year the game is being "fully integrated with steam" in terms of network play etc. The reason I ask is I play my save-games across different machines (laptop and desktop mainly) and transporting the saves (whether it be by dropbox which is my preferred method atm, or the manual method of using a flash drive usb stick) tends to be a BIG pain in the ass. If SI do not include this option in FM 13 I feel you are missing a great opportunity to make saving games much quicker and more portable, especially as when steam cloud is enabled (on games that support it) save games are automatically saved to the steam servers with very little user input. A great feature IMHO. Thanks Martin Mac Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mafino Posted September 9, 2012 Share Posted September 9, 2012 I don't see why doing the save games via Dropbox would be a problem? Actually I think that's an amazing idea... ah, but you would need to wait for Dropbox to upload the entire file wouldn't you? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartsMac1982 Posted September 9, 2012 Share Posted September 9, 2012 Yeah that's how i do it atm, but it takes ages as you rightly suspected to sync from one computer to the other. And it's another program (dropbox) that you have to have running. Doesn't really affect my 6 core 12 thread machine with 24GB RAM , but its a PITA if you have a slower machine/older laptop. Using steam cloud to sync the save games/user data folder would be so much better . Imagine using steam cloud so that all the schedules/tactics/graphics you had customized your game with were being out synced. I'm almost 100% sure this will not be included for FM 13 but future versions maybe???? food for thought. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexLightsaber Posted September 9, 2012 Share Posted September 9, 2012 Yeah that's how i do it atm, but it takes ages as you rightly suspected to sync from one computer to the other. And it's another program (dropbox) that you have to have running. Doesn't really affect my 6 core 12 thread machine with 24GB RAM , but its a PITA if you have a slower machine/older laptop. Using steam cloud to sync the save games/user data folder would be so much better . Imagine using steam cloud so that all the schedules/tactics/graphics you had customized your game with were being out synced. I'm almost 100% sure this will not be included for FM 13 but future versions maybe???? food for thought. I'm pretty sure they said they cant do it because the file size is too big for Steam Cloud. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartsMac1982 Posted September 9, 2012 Share Posted September 9, 2012 Well my compressed savegame in the year 2019 is only 324 Megs , I have no idea what the max steam cloud file size is , but if it can support 400 megs then it should be fine! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexLightsaber Posted September 9, 2012 Share Posted September 9, 2012 Well my compressed savegame in the year 2019 is only 324 Megs , I have no idea what the max steam cloud file size is , but if it can support 400 megs then it should be fine! Steam Cloud allows saves up to 100MB per game. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patfan1991 Posted September 9, 2012 Share Posted September 9, 2012 I like this as well. I look forward to making a team completely of home-grown youth academy players and going to the top. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tigerhgrrrrrr Posted September 9, 2012 Share Posted September 9, 2012 Really really excited about finding out more about FMC - hope tomorrow a Blog appears telling more! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wizard boy Posted September 9, 2012 Share Posted September 9, 2012 How much different was the ME in fm12 from the one in 11? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liu Chih Chiang Posted September 9, 2012 Share Posted September 9, 2012 How time flies. It seems like only a few years ago when I was playing Championship Manager I am looking forward to FM 2013 as always. I just hope the transfer system is corrected. I hope that I am able to sell players and loan players out. The transfer system in FM 2012 is a disappointment. I hope the AI system is able to challenge me for honors. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cfcannon Posted September 9, 2012 Share Posted September 9, 2012 SI really need to clarify things with this microtransaction ********, and that's fast!I mean, the option to remove work permits should be included in the editor. It's not something you should have to pay extra for. For example. Will this "feature" limit the editor for career games? Will this "feature" be the end of awesome third party tools like FMRTE in career mode? If the answer is yes for one of these question i don't think i'll buy the game at all this year. I'm still wondering about this issue too. One of favorite ways to play FM is to use an editor to give some tiny lower league club 5-10m and then never edit again. If I decide I like the new mode, which I might since I no longer have time to play as often or as long as back in the CM time, I assume SI will have made it impossible to use an editor in the classic mode otherwise they'd miss out on the extra cash. I'll be stuck not playing the game the way I'd like unless I fork over more cash or work my way through long enough to "earn" this ability. If that is the case then I've probably bought my last FM.I also hope these new features weren't created at the expense of fixing game killing issues like the broken AI for squad building and transfer issues. I don't see much point in buying a new FM if that hasn't been addressed while all this pay to play nonsense has been added. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
N^G Posted September 9, 2012 Share Posted September 9, 2012 Not too enamoured with this years headline features. FMC sounds like a game mode thats put in because they cant get proper career mode running fluently for the player who doesnt want to spend hours on training etc. Also the microtransactions are a cash grab, which is not encouraging for the future direction of the series. What the game actually needs is 64 bit mode as this could improve peoples gameplay experience a lot. Will have to wait and see, I suppose! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMaster2 Posted September 9, 2012 Share Posted September 9, 2012 I couldn't care less about FMC. I'm waiting to hear the true news for this game. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ppbrover Posted September 9, 2012 Share Posted September 9, 2012 Amazon UK are showing fm13 as availble opn November 30 2012,I am ok with this BUT they are showing only available on Vista or Windows 7,WHY? is this game no going to be available on Windows XP? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexLightsaber Posted September 9, 2012 Share Posted September 9, 2012 Amazon UK are showing fm13 as availble opn November 30 2012,I am ok with this BUT they are showinh only available on Vista or Windows 7,WHY? is this game no going to be available on Windows XP? It says Windows XP on Steam so Amazon is probably wrong. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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