Falling out of love with the game

[jackripper]

Sfraser i would love to read about your career in the fmcareer section

[MattSpurs94]

I can't help but agree here. I just can't get myself motivated to start a long term game at all. I can start for about half a season, but I get so bored at how slow it takes me I just holiday to the end of the season, then just quit without saving. Maybe if I see an older game in GameStation I might get it, and get seasons done really quickly.

I find myself preferring to do games holidaying into the future and seeing what happens. It always make me happy when I see something I know won't happen in real life, like a Big 4 team being relegated, or a small club being taken over and rising to the top.

Just take some time away, and maybe you'll rediscover the love

[CaptainPlanet]

I'm praying FM12 offers something better than FM11 in terms of improvements and new features. There hasn't been a single change apart from Dynamic Leagues since FM09 that I've liked.

[Guest]

Not sure if I'm at that point where I'm past enjoying pretending to be a manager anymore. I often get the urge to fire up FM when I watch sky sports and stuff but I'm just not really enjoying the game of football manager anymore.

Probably, you do need a break and maybe a fresh FM. I think I'm going to wait till 2012 comes out before I venture into the world of football manager again.. (hoping its a better year, majorly dissapointed this year)

Could just be because its the end of the football season though. I think I suffer from F.S.A.D (Football Seasonal Affective Disorder) as my interest in FM always seems to fade about now,

I'am starting to notice while playing and reading the forums thats its more of an RPG than a football manager simulation theses days. (If theres a difference). And I hate RPGs.

[MAINBOY]

I agree with OP.

I'm 18 and have playing this game since Championship Manager Days.

I have only played 1 save since Patch 11.3.0 came out.

I haven't got a current save at the moment. I will buy FM 12. But if FM12 hasnt improved. I will give FM up. Either go back to FM 08 or Give Football manager up Completly.

[huggormen]

Just like OP, been playing since the earliest days of cm2, and quite frankly, crouchaldinho puts it way better than I ever will. A massive post that describes my feelings entirely!

TY crouchie

[elliottness23]

On a serious note though, i understand crouchie. I find myself forcing myself to play the game, my next thing is to let the assistant handle my team talks now because im fed up with it, he handles everything else why not that? I just want a simple fun game, the way it use to be.

Im only a year older than you in CM years 00-01 and im at the same stage in life as you it seems, engaged to be married and a kid on the way, maybe we've played for too long, maybe theres nothing more this series can give us but i will give it 2 more years just to see how things change.

But my love started to leave after FM07. I have bought two laptops since then and i always copy my save game over just in case

[BiggusD]

I think introducing 3d match representation is a step in the right direction. Every year there will be more animations and better animations and I am happy with the development so far.

I agree with Crouchinaldo and many others here: there has been little improvement in the core aspects of the game the last two-three years. As I said in a post above, there are many annoying "bugs" that hasn't been fixed seemingly because the work on media interactions take all of SI's attention. The thing is that getting that aspect of the game right is a hopeless endeavour: it can never ever be complex enough to simulate life! I hope that instead of expanding the amount of possible answers and possible questions in press conferences SI switches to the use of symbolic alternatives being much more general in nature, like in Mass Effect where each alternative indicates a different attitude. The key point is to avoid that press conferences, player/manager interactions and team talks become mini-games which their customers get tired of after ten minutes.

[aggressive minor]

The game has just become more of a chore and less about enjoyment. Something is missing that was there in the earlier games.

[GioGio85]

I get like this every year Crouchy. I don't think it is neccessarily really anything to do with the FM series, it's more likely that II get fed up of sitting in front of my laptop every evening.

I got to 3032 in my save and then got a tad bored so didnt play for about 2 months. I then rejoined my save and found my enthusiasm was still there in abundance (sadly my game crashed - dam you football gods!)

I have just purchased myself a MacBook Pro and am lookingg foward to testing out FM on it....I recommend, as many others have, a little break to reignite your love of the game.

With the football season now over , I'm sure you will be back sooner rather than later trying to solve your football cravings.

[MAINBOY]

I would like a Free Bug FM game in the future.

[FelixG]

Couldnt agree more, great post.

Certain features like, press conferences, team talks, match prep are half arsed attempts that are boring and repetitive. They do nothing but bloat the game and i'd rather time went onto creating the best match engine ever, rather than updating team talks...

[Svenc]

I like micromanagement... to a point.

Anything I do in FM needs to be worth the effort, and frankly, the press conferences, manager-to-manager interactions and to a large degree the interactions with players are best avoided because the risk of ruining everything is bigger than the benefits.

I don't intend this to be anything personal, just wanted to point out that knowing where you're coming from as I was participating in a recent thread, I also know that your opinion on all of these elements must be taken with a pinch of salt. I'm also pointing this out as this appears to be pretty representative in attitude as well as mindedness for many FMers who condemn the interaction parts to be completely bonkers as a whole. As with any crowd feedback, the complaints are those that can be heard the most frequent - and loudest.

I'm frequently managing to get opposition players unsettled (if they're up against me) or fired up (if they're up against contenders of mine), and I have seen what could be considered immediate effects on top of the drop in morale that follows if you succeed: unsettled players being the weakest players on the pitch, fired up strikers scoring that vital goal against relegation contenders, and so on. Managing those interactions ain't rocket science, in fact, it's arguably a bit simplish. But none of this is mini-gamish: as even if the player's manager comment history makes him out to be prone to struggle when put under spotlight, trying to pull all the attention on him still can have a completely different effect. And this rarely only has an effect on just the guy you're talking about: Suddenly your model-professional captain may get a little unsettled himself when his manager appears more happy trying to belittle opposing players in public rather than pondering on more "fair-play" tactics on how to exploit him. There's some level of ambiguity. The same applies to virtually any other player/manager interaction part of the game.

But forming relationships with managers, being able to not only influence your own results, but also those around you (plus witnessing Capello occasionally going apesh*t in a press conference ), the cause and effects being ambitious rather than linear makes FM the most developed management game right off the bat when it comes to player/manager interaction - and I know the competition with its quiz-show-style interviews always yielding the same +1 points effect on player happiness as soon as you know what answer button to push. Usually that is the case the second time through, as answering is just a test of memory, nothing else, as the entire interaction system is implemented like that. FM ain't like this. Considering that things have just started (and it shows!) compared to how long SI have been honing their match engine, I'm looking forward to what is still to come in this area in particular. But likely the level of ambiguity and degrees of unpredictability will always cause uproar amongst a section of FM players.

[shirajzl]

You completely missed the point, Svenc. Yes, FM is the most developed management game. Yes, team talks and press conferences add to the depth and realism of the game. But do they make the game more accessible and easy to pick up? I (and many others here) would say no. The more details you have on your hands, the more your attention is diverted from the core elements of football management game. On top of that, once you realise you're clicking a certain team talk option not because you think it's logical, but because you know it will work, the game becomes more like a chore. And that's the point of this topic.

[Svenc]

You completely missed the point, Svenc. Yes, FM is the most developed management game. Yes, team talks and press conferences add to the depth and realism of the game. But do they make the game more accessible and easy to pick up? I (and many others here) would say no. The more details you have on your hands, the more your attention is diverted from the core elements of football management game.

And those core elements are which according to who exactly?

On top of that, once you realise you're clicking a certain team talk option not because you think it's logical, but because you know it will work,

Not at all what Biggus was talking about - as he has found out himself, FM is nowhere near as predictable as that. And he's also likely still exaggerating the effects, for the reasons highlighted in the thread linked to earlier.

[x42bn6]

I got to 3032 in my save

I think you have many more serious issues than getting bored of the game!

[x42bn6]

I don't intend this to be anything personal, just wanted to point out that knowing where you're coming from as I was participating in a recent thread, I also know that your opinion on all of these elements must be taken with a pinch of salt. I'm also pointing this out as this appears to be pretty representative in attitude as well as mindedness for many FMers who condemn the interaction parts to be completely bonkers as a whole. As with any crowd feedback, the complaints are those that can be heard the most frequent - and loudest.

It is one thing to know that complaints are often the loudest things you hear, to taking this person's specific set of negative reactions with a pinch of salt. Otherwise you could pretty much silence any criticism with "I'm going to take your opinion with a pinch of salt, because it is negative".

If any user needs to start avoiding a feature because it is confusing or too risky due to a lack of understanding, then there is something wrong with that feature. It is a bit like trying to convince a user that they have misunderstood the feature and it is therefore their fault - it's not. It's the feature. An important rule in software design is that you never say, "But you've misunderstood the feature!"

[shwan]

crouchaldinho everyone need a break .. enjoy your time

[GioGio85]

I think you have many more serious issues than getting bored of the game!

Nope, just enjoy the game!

[Flamers]

Features in games should be designed to be fail safe. If they aren't a tutorial generally helps. Portal is basically one big tutorial yet one of the greatest games man kind has ever seen!

[Fowler-9]

i for one can certainly agree with the OP.. and i realise the game has evolved to more than the fun football management game that the CM series was.. BUT the fact of the matter is SI release this game yearly like clockwork and while they do try and push the boundary's with new features,such as the player interaction, press conferences etc they dont realease a game that is as enjoyable to play as they did.. simple fact there's only so much you can do in 12 months, the more they try to do the less fun the game is to play.. take FM11 for example.. the new match engine looks better than 10's.. but the game is less enjoyable.. even after 11.3 the game is still suffering from bugs.. some of them even created by patch 11.3 due no doubt to the amount of time,work & coding involved.. i would still prefer if SI left MAJOR changes to the game, in development for another year and gave themselves more time to release a refined,relativly bug free game than getting to the 3rd patch and saying "thats all folks, see you in november.." that may find the fun factor returning..

[huggormen]

I would like a Free Bug FM game in the future.

What's wrong with paying for it?

Oh, the bugs 8-D

[derrickr]

As a long time reader (pretty much daily) but a not so often poster i felt somehow compelled to reply.

I too have been playing FM since the CM days - when one of my mates used to come round to my flat and we would take turns on the amiga managing our teams.

(i remember one sad saturday night leaving my mate fast asleep on the settee, mouse in hand and going to my bed at 3am during the 1 hour end of season update, lol)

I remember the days of 3 player "hotseat" games played straight after work, after a visit to the chippie for dinner)

Now to bring things up to date - i am 37 years old, happily married and still play the game twice a week with a network game with my brother and one of my mates.

We all have other interests and kids to take care of, but still love a good session of FM

It does take us about 2-3 months to get a season played, but when FM is on the ball, there is nothing to beat it.

Now on to the serious points - We are currently playing FM10 and 7 or so season in (well there have been two baby breaks to contend with) - what we love about the game is the same core that was there even back in the CM days - the excitment, the glory, the disappointments, the big signings, the cup final wins, the chance to slag off the other two players......

For me, the best most recent change was the TC (Tactics Creator) - it was like allowing a blind man to see (without having to exactly move 17 sliders to get your tactics to work) and helped me persuade the others to give up our FM09 save, which i am so glad we did.

However, like Crouchaldinho and SFraser, so far we have given FM11 a miss - Why...because the stuff that they seem to have added seem to move the game futher away from where i/we want it to be.

I dont care about agents or press conferences or things like that - i want the excitment, the late goals, the sense of anticipation, the cup runs, the Brazilian forward who can score 20 goals by January then breaks his leg when you need him most

I love FM but i wonder how long i can stay in love with it, when i simply want to play it and enjoy it.

As others have said better than me, you can improve the experience without making it too complicated or simply no longer enjoyable - it is a game after all

Funnily enough (and perhaps because if this point i am not the best person to comment) - i dont play my own game of FM outwith the network game.

I know my brother and mate do but i am happy to get my fix this way but am concerned about what direction the game is going........i think FM12 is a bigger version than perhaps SI realise going by what is posted above

Final point Crouchaldinho - i completely understand where you are at and to be honest if it wasnt for the network game i have going i would probably not have time to enjoy or the inclination to play FM (11 especially) either

(perhaps i too should try the ipad version )

Apologies for the long post

***EDIT - perhaps i should also add that between the actual game time and allowing for each of us to go on and look at scout reports, possible signing targets and examining stats, we have over 24 DAYS gametime on our FM10 save...so SI are obviously doing something right ***

[BiggusD]

It is one thing to know that complaints are often the loudest things you hear, to taking this person's specific set of negative reactions with a pinch of salt. Otherwise you could pretty much silence any criticism with "I'm going to take your opinion with a pinch of salt, because it is negative".

If any user needs to start avoiding a feature because it is confusing or too risky due to a lack of understanding, then there is something wrong with that feature. It is a bit like trying to convince a user that they have misunderstood the feature and it is therefore their fault - it's not. It's the feature. An important rule in software design is that you never say, "But you've misunderstood the feature!"

Well, it has nothing to do with lack of understanding and everything to do with lack of incentive. I am tired of other users implying that any new user does not know the game. Why would I bother getting into the various mind games options (which are seriously flawed in many ways - and that is a fact and not an opinion) and press conferences when there is no need? I excel in so many ways in FM that it is hardly necessary to make other teams nervous. They manage that fine by themselves, by the way.

I don't avoid manager/press interactions because I don't understand how they work. I avoid them because they are, in lack of a better word, ***** (and yes I sensored that myself now thank you).

[Flamers]

The only really "good" feature SI added in FM11 was the dynamic league reputation, which is why I play it.

[Avelives]

quitting for a couple of months sometimes works for me

Totally worked for me. The last version prior to FM11 I had was FM09, which I didnt enjoy very much, similar to the OP, just felt like a chore to play, to much like work. So I quit playing it and refused to be tempted to buy FM10, despite it getting better reviews.

Have recently just got FM11 and Im reinvigorated, even the press conferences and features I previously hated dont seem so bad anymore. A break from the game is what Id suggest, preferably a long break.

[Svenc]

It is one thing to know that complaints are often the loudest things you hear, to taking this person's specific set of negative reactions with a pinch of salt. Otherwise you could pretty much silence any criticism with "I'm going to take your opinion with a pinch of salt, because it is negative".

It is also one thing to criticize a feature, and another to blame every hickup and failure that occurs on a perceived brokeness of said feature. As it often occurs with many parts of the game, not only player interaction. Another forum regular is to blame every defense error that is being witnessed on match engine bugs and not once considering that it could well be a bug - but it could also be a tactical error and just plain bad decision making. Sadly discussions from then on borderline on being futile - as wwfan could likely write a series of books about. For the record: The thread I linked to earlier still somehow managed to end up in solid discussion about how feedback is being communicated to the player - and how that could be improved - much later on.

The whole player interaction thing is put in the player's favor anyways. I think that bias was even increased from previous versions. I have never seen my own striker dropping in morale in the few cases the AI manager tried to unsettle him, for instance. Plus, AI managers are meant to behave like humans, rather than World Of Warcraft powergamers overly obsessing about which option might hold the least risk and the most gain at any given time. That must be a concept completely alien to many FM players. But that equally doesn't mean the entire system is broken on a fundamental level.

[valencia]

I'm glad i discovered this thread. Like many on here I have followed the series in its various incarnations back to its Domark days on the Amiga about 20 years ago now! I played the game reigiously in my teens and even at uni then intermittently after that. I enjoyed Fm2008 a lot but have found successive newer versions to be very cumbersome. Back in my teens I craved more detail in the game but where the game lacked this, I made up for with my imagination. As crouchy says, the narrative part is the of the experience is the most important part of the enjoyment. Personally I have absolutely no inclination to waste my time infinitessimally tweaking training methods or going through a ultra micro-management ritual before each game just to keep things ticking over. I want to hire an assistant manager who does all that rubbish for me and lets me do the fun bits - sign players, create tactics and play games. Sometimes i feel like all the cumbersome 'additions' just detract from the game. what next?, deciding what type of oranges the players have at half time or whether the groundsman needs a new flymo?... I just dont care and sometimes the level of admin and chores in the game makes me feel i should be getting paid to play it

I never buy the new game until February each year these days either. Once the third patch is out and the game is near playable I consider it. we shoudln't have to have 3+ patches on each new version, its a shambles.

Like most on here, i want a streamlined fast playable (bug free) game that focuses on tactics, transfers and games. Get this right first and dont punish the player if he doesnt want to spend hours procrastinating over whether or not the under 18's reserve keeper should be eating ready brek or cheerios for breakfast each morning. I've lost the love for fm but have just bought fm2011 and am prepared to give it one last chance. I want to love this game again....

[magicmastermind124]

As a long time reader (pretty much daily) but a not so often poster i felt somehow compelled to reply.

I too have been playing FM since the CM days - when one of my mates used to come round to my flat and we would take turns on the amiga managing our teams.

(i remember one sad saturday night leaving my mate fast asleep on the settee, mouse in hand and going to my bed at 3am during the 1 hour end of season update, lol)

I remember the days of 3 player "hotseat" games played straight after work, after a visit to the chippie for dinner)

Now to bring things up to date - i am 37 years old, happily married and still play the game twice a week with a network game with my brother and one of my mates.

We all have other interests and kids to take care of, but still love a good session of FM

It does take us about 2-3 months to get a season played, but when FM is on the ball, there is nothing to beat it.

Now on to the serious points - We are currently playing FM10 and 7 or so season in (well there have been two baby breaks to contend with) - what we love about the game is the same core that was there even back in the CM days - the excitment, the glory, the disappointments, the big signings, the cup final wins, the chance to slag off the other two players......

For me, the best most recent change was the TC (Tactics Creator) - it was like allowing a blind man to see (without having to exactly move 17 sliders to get your tactics to work) and helped me persuade the others to give up our FM09 save, which i am so glad we did.

However, like Crouchaldinho and SFraser, so far we have given FM11 a miss - Why...because the stuff that they seem to have added seem to move the game futher away from where i/we want it to be.

I dont care about agents or press conferences or things like that - i want the excitment, the late goals, the sense of anticipation, the cup runs, the Brazilian forward who can score 20 goals by January then breaks his leg when you need him most

I love FM but i wonder how long i can stay in love with it, when i simply want to play it and enjoy it.

As others have said better than me, you can improve the experience without making it too complicated or simply no longer enjoyable - it is a game after all

Funnily enough (and perhaps because if this point i am not the best person to comment) - i dont play my own game of FM outwith the network game.

I know my brother and mate do but i am happy to get my fix this way but am concerned about what direction the game is going........i think FM12 is a bigger version than perhaps SI realise going by what is posted above

Final point Crouchaldinho - i completely understand where you are at and to be honest if it wasnt for the network game i have going i would probably not have time to enjoy or the inclination to play FM (11 especially) either

(perhaps i too should try the ipad version )

Apologies for the long post

***EDIT - perhaps i should also add that between the actual game time and allowing for each of us to go on and look at scout reports, possible signing targets and examining stats, we have over 24 DAYS gametime on our FM10 save...so SI are obviously doing something right ***

I feel the same way with regards to the network games. I played a game with 2 of my workmates and game time lasted about 10 days, we played 4 seasons and it was the best game of FM I have ever played. Playing against the AI is K but it's nothing compared to playing your mates. Every match matters and we had so many cup finals/semi finals that were at least 5 goal thrillers. The problem with network play is that it's quite slow over the internet and despite my and other peoples requests Miles isn't going to budge. (I mentioned having a dedicated server would work best so 3rd parties could have the option of hosting them)

[Jenko_EFC]

I agree Crouchy.

I haven't even been on any forums for a while (personal reasons too) because I can't get into FM11 at all. I am loving FM10 but I haven't even loaded that up for about a week. I didn't get excited for FM11 unfortunately and I've only had one save which I enjoyed on it so far, the features just didn't appeal to me and it's showed.

FM10 is superior by far for me but even that is starting to feel like a chore, I just cannot be bothered to play or post anymore so I haven't been. I've took a break obviously and that hasn't worked so I'm just going to power through it, hopefully when the regens come through on my save, I'll enjoy it again.

[ottey_swe]

Thanks for the post Rancer. Again, perhaps you are right and I just need a break or to start something fresh. I don't know. I can't help feeling that there is more to it than that though.

I do tend to enjoy the game much more when playing at lower levels away from the top flight. Perhaps managing in a smaller nation would give me the feeling of being 'Non-League' or 'lower league' for longer and thus bring more enjoyment. I don't know but I do think that some of my frustrations are related to playing my St. Albans City save in the Premier League. Now I'm in the future and playing at the top of the game, I've started to see so many faults with everything all of the time (e.g. things like quality of newgens, transfer intelligence from the computer, bugs involving players always wanting 'bigger challenges' and changing their minds all of the time and so on and so forth).

The background to this post was that I was trying to casually pick up my St. Albans City save again and got really angry with it. I had just played a casual season with Hellas Verona and won the Serie C1 title, which is quite easy considering they are one of the favourites when you start the game. Then I decided to go back to the Saints save and aspects of FM started to drive me crazy again! I think it was all particularly highlighted by that particular save in a way.

Thanks Bracken. Kind words... well sort of anyway! I hope Fm12 surprises me too but I just feel that maybe the game is moving in the wrong direction for me personally.

Playing long term saves (5-10 seasons+) really exposes the bad sides of FM. The longer in you get, the more crazy & unrealistic it gets, I think. Try some short term challenges you can relate to real life, then you'll always have famous players, and it will be less time consuming.

Establish Peterborough in the Championship & have a go at the Premier League?

Win the Champions League for Abramovich?

Win the Premier League with Liverpool?

Take Nottingham Forest or Leeds United back to where they belong?

Lead Juventus back to the glory days in their new Stadium?

Get Tottenham a new Stadium?

[grade]

Great post Crouchy and I agree with you.

However I'm not bored with FM, because I currently continue to play FM07. It just these small mini games that these last few FMs makes me uninterested with the game and the fact that we have thousand things in between matches, makes the game even slower to advance the game.

Personally I think that immersion of FM, doesn't mean add a thousand little annoying features, but engulfing us in the virtual world of FM and keeping our interaction with the game straight forward and simple. The media is key part of involving us in to that virtual world, not by using Press Conferences where journalists make us questions, but what we do in the world has some effect, like leading a lower league club in winning premiership is a remarkable achievement and the media should show us that and winning a Champions League with zero budget team that in previous season was able to get position to go to european competitions and that all.

So for me, what I find boring and uninterested is Backroom Advice, Press Conferences, Agents, Match Preperation and how slow the game has become to name the most important.

Crouchy should win the best post of the year.

[Shake Appeal]

They really do need to improve the quality, variety, and realism of newgens. From 2016 onwards things start to get a little weird.

[x42bn6]

It is also one thing to criticize a feature, and another to blame every hickup and failure that occurs on a perceived brokeness of said feature. As it often occurs with many parts of the game, not only player interaction. Another forum regular is to blame every defense error that is being witnessed on match engine bugs and not once considering that it could well be a bug - but it could also be a tactical error and just plain bad decision making.

If a user consistently makes the wrong decisions for whatever reason, it could be argued that the feature is misleading or confusing. So it might not be "broken" as such, but it appears to be broken - from a software perspective, both are roughly the same because if something appears to be wrong, you may as well assume it is because some users are going to end up very confused.

Which is why although criticism arguably perhaps dominates forums, criticism should still be taken seriously. Just because XYZ has succeeded at doing well with some feature does not mean there is no issue with it - if a user is confused by a feature, then there is something wrong with it.

I don't think team talks or player interaction is "broken" as such but it can be downright confusing. And if wwfan needs to "write a book" to explain things, then that is a sure sign that something is seriously wrong with the game.

[MorrisseyMuse]

I absolutely couldn't have said it better myself, Crouchy.

Now, FM10 was a massive improvement over FM09 I thought, but FM11 - while adding agents and DLR - isn't that far removed from FM10 and so continues the trend of the 'new age' if you like of FM games that started with FM09.

These are games with loads more 'little' features such as press conferences as well as a greater change in UI to the previous games in the series.

I dont want to hark back to the olden days of CM3, it's still a great game but I would struggle without a 2D match engine now. I like my FM to have features and a bit more complexity as this all adds depth and variety to play, but at the same time the more recent FM's have become too tactical-focused and almost attempted to be too realistic.

I felt this ultimate realism-to-fun balance was established in FM08. It showed a changed UI that was hinting at changes to come, but it was by no mean bloated with screens and options like its sequels would be. It maintained a great processing speed like previous games in the series and offered features not in the also excellent FM07, as well as tactical options for hardcore tacticians that created some unstoppable tactics for those that didn't wish to tinker as much to use.

I feel SI have firmly acknowledged now that FM10 and FM11 are the way forward with the series and sadly the FM07 and FM08's of the world are history. I still buy the new games and play them but nowhere near as much as I now play the older games again, it just takes too long to get back into a game with the newer titles.

It's always refreshing to see there's still alot of common support for the older versions out there though, it seems quite a few people either are feeling aggrieved by FM11 or just hold soft sports for FM of old.

[MyOleSolskjaer]

Dammit Crouchy, i wish i had the nack of writing down how i feel about something that im so passionate about, as contructive as you do. I've tried it alot in the past, and i just crumble after the first sentence or two

[Äktsjon Männ]

Personally I think that immersion of FM, doesn't mean add a thousand little annoying features, but engulfing us in the virtual world of FM and keeping our interaction with the game straight forward and simple. The media is key part of involving us in to that virtual world, not by using Press Conferences where journalists make us questions, but what we do in the world has some effect, like leading a lower league club in winning premiership is a remarkable achievement and the media should show us that and winning a Champions League with zero budget team that in previous season was able to get position to go to european competitions and that all.

Damn well said, that. The interaction features and media should aim to make players feel more involved in the game world. Instead of throwing more poorly designed and highly repetitive mini games at us make the media more reactive of the game world surrounding it and use it to make our achievements feel more rewarding. Instead of making the player interaction feature act as another multiple choice, right or wrong/positive or negative response minigame turn it into a tool that helps to understand our players and makes them feel 'alive', so to say. Make the manager-player interaction a long term process with conversations that don't have to end up in a conclusive positive/negative result every time. Make developing a relationship a gradual progress that feels natural. And so on.

Basically what I'm trying to say is that if game features that naturally should work as devices that suck people into the imaginary world and make it feel like a living, breathing universe - actually succeed in having the opposite effect on so many people then that really can't be the fault of those people. It's just poor game design.

[the blue ferret]

The UI seems to get clunkier and more dumb downed every version as well. Which I find annoying

[axehan1]

its a real shame when one of the forums most respected posters decides that maybe he has had enough of playing this frustratingly brilliant game.I would venture to say that there still is hope for you yet and many other fm'ers who are teetering on the abyss.i am 38 years young mate, wife ,2 kids(no.3 due to arrive early October)and every thing else that comes with being my age.Naturally i cant sit in front of my pc for hours on end trying to win everything in sight with my beloved Man United fact is life just doesnt let me now but i make sure that once the kids are tucked away for the night and me and the wife have spent the eveing together i slide away for an hour and become a football manager,not just bashing continue and downloading a "p&p tactic".i take the utmost enjoyment of building my team from the ground up.

maybe its because i only get to play it in small dosses that still makes it unbelievably addictive who knows,i cant think of many people my age playing a football manager game.dont give up mate and remember enjoy the little things!!

[Lazaru5]

Damn well said' date=' that. [b']The interaction features and media should aim to make players feel more involved in the game world.[/b] Instead of throwing more poorly designed and highly repetitive mini games at us make the media more reactive of the game world surrounding it and use it to make our achievements feel more rewarding. Instead of making the player interaction feature act as another multiple choice, right or wrong/positive or negative response minigame turn it into a tool that helps to understand our players and makes them feel 'alive', so to say. Make the manager-player interaction a long term process with conversations that don't have to end up in a conclusive positive/negative result every time. Make developing a relationship a gradual progress that feels natural. And so on.

Basically what I'm trying to say is that if game features that naturally should work as devices that suck people into the imaginary world and make it feel like a living, breathing universe - actually succeed in having the opposite effect on so many people then that really can't be the fault of those people. It's just poor game design.

This is almost exactly how the media and player interaction features work for me... My team plays better when I've had a pre-match press conference, the players respond positively to private chats, I feel like I "know" my players and their foibles. I can usually understand instantly what the reason(s) is(are) for a player(s) performing well or badly and also, for the most part, I know what to say at half-time to rectify or avoid any problems in the second half.

For me the media is key to playing the game, if I can play the media correctly I can see the benefits on the pitch and with squad morale. I always do the press conferences myself and consider each question carefully. I want to generate the required reaction from a player or the team depending on the question. I don't know how many people realise that every question carries weight and not just the media highlighted one so don't properly consider their answers. The match odds tend to play a part too, and I use these to gauge which of the answers is likely to be the most beneficial to my teams performance. I don't, for example, suggest that we might comfortably win a match in which we're not the favourites, the bigger the gap in odds the more influential they are in deciding which answers I give.

For matches where there is no press conference I make comment on the opposition manager and his squad, with the comments again reflective of the match odds. You can even use the press conference to befriend or influence players who you wish to buy, at least the AI David Moyes did to make himself favoured personnel of my new young hotshot striker. When asked about signing him he responded positively - bam! favoured personnel (and I'm not... yet)

[bluebirds4life]

I abseloutely feel you Crouchie, lost all passion and addictiveness to it, will only play it if I'm on a good streak, if I start losing I'll turn it off(I never used to )

FM11 was a fail, why make tactics so hard to get succesful, FM10 and FM08 were the best.

[Lazaru5]

I abseloutely feel you Crouchie, lost all passion and addictiveness to it, will only play it if I'm on a good streak, if I start losing I'll turn it off(I never used to )

FM11 was a fail, why make tactics so hard to get succesful, FM10 and FM08 were the best.

I'm still using the same tactics I used in FM09... and I don't have any problems with them. If anything they have improved as the match engine has and are now better than they were in 09...

[shirajzl]

For me the media is key to playing the game, if I can play the media correctly I can see the benefits on the pitch and with squad morale.

This is exactly what I hate about this game and what puts me off big time. Football management games should be about tactics and transfers, not media mind games.

If the media factor is in the game for the sake of realism, then it shouldn't have such a big role and effect on players' performance as it does now. It should have a minor impact like in real life. As things stand in FM, you can "win" the game with a good press conference. Nonsense.

[Guest]

This is exactly what I hate about this game and what puts me off big time. Football management games should be about tactics and transfers, not media mind games.

If the media factor is in the game for the sake of realism, then it shouldn't have such a big role and effect on players' performance as it does now. It should have a minor impact like in real life. As things stand in FM, you can "win" the game with a good press conference. Nonsense.

Me to.

Moral and form should come from players playing well, liking the way the team is playing, liking his position, Liking being in the team, liking his other team mates, WINNING, TACTICS, ect. Not by press conferances and team talks.

Seriously, I have never heard one player in my life say hes playing bad/well because of the mangagers press conferances. Usually its because hes enjoying his football. I'm sure irl it would have zero effect on the players. Would most of them even bother watching? Its mainly for the fans and the media, not the happiness of the players. A pre match team talk wont have a half a season long impact either, 5, 10 minutes tops, and rarely.

To be honest I have no clue what SI are thinking these days. They seem to have lost the plot.

I want both of them completley removed for 2012.

[bluebirds4life]

Bit harsh beating 4 on the trot including Villa in the league Cup, to have the same side with good fitness and morale, good team talk, to lose home to Palace?

Anyway,FM12 has to be good for the following reason, even years:

FM08 - Legendary

FM09 - Crap

FM10 - Quality

FM11 - Fail

So FM12's gunna be beastly, and FM13 I wont bother buying.

[letissierandhenryaregreat]

In regards to FM11, I don't really see what the fuss is about. It's a quality game as far as I'm concerned. The only disappointment was the lack of improvement from FM10, but that probably means that there are some pretty big features round the corner...

[Guest]

Bit harsh beating 4 on the trot including Villa in the league Cup, to have the same side with good fitness and morale, good team talk, to lose home to Palace?

Anyway,FM12 has to be good for the following reason, even years:

FM08 - Legendary

FM09 - Crap

FM10 - Quality

FM11 - Fail

So FM12's gunna be beastly, and FM13 I wont bother buying.

Similar for me.

FM08 - legendary (probably at its peak)

FM09 - dissapointing after 08. Starting to go down hill. Had its moments once I discovered team talks were key to success

FM10 - I'm starting to hate this. Its worse than 09.

FM11 - Complete fail. Terrible. Worst one ever. Its just like 10 but with more bugs and broken features. Did they even bother testing it? Realism straight out the window.

FM12 probably following the trend. Juist like 11 but with even more unrealistic features. I seriously hope not though.

[Seagullfan]

Hi Crouchie I like you only ever really play lower league stuff. The highest I have managed is L1 promotion to the Championship but gave up this save as I had inadvertently only loaded the English league database so number of players were limited.

I am now managing a journeyman save that had me leaving Kildare County after 1 season and am now in Serie C on a team building exercise which is proving to be great fun.

Although I only play about 5 or 6 hours a week I too find that I can get tired of it all after a long stint and suddenly just get turned off. This normally lasts a few months and then I start reading articles/books on tactics and sudenly the FM juices start kicking in again and I reload the save and re-familiarise myself with the players/coaches/ass man etc and I am then back in the saddle and raring to go.

I'm sure if you took a break for a short period then something would trigger your enthusiasm again and you would also come back fresh and raring to go.

I hope so because I do enjoy reading your contributions on this site and it would be sad if that was lost forever

Btw still on fm10

[Legion22]

I am currently trying to get into 11, but finding it very, very hard going. The agents feature is simply awfull and really making the game feel like work.

Plus the UI is ugly.

[shirajzl]

In regards to FM11, I don't really see what the fuss is about. It's a quality game as far as I'm concerned. The only disappointment was the lack of improvement from FM10, but that probably means that there are some pretty big features round the corner...

It is a quality game in my opinion, but certain features like press conferences and team talks have too much of an impact on your results. That spoils the fun and puts people off. It's a shame, really, as the game is pretty good in many other aspects.