*Official* Football Manager 2023 Feedback Thread

[ajw10]

23 hours ago, ajw10 said:

 

 

Spoiler

 

Last one 

Edited March 31, 2023 by ajw10

[CoffeeFueledCurmudgeon]

What was the update tonight? I've just logged back in for first time since about lunchtime and the game was updating again.

[SimonHoddle]

9 hours ago, azymin said:

The changes in the 23.4 update include, but are not limited to:

- Fixed rare crash affecting some users with saves started with December 2022 start date
- Addressed an issue where users can’t ask the board to upgrade Youth Recruitment to maximum level
- Addressed an issue where the Team Instructions will disappear when users change formation via the Formation dropdown menu in Tactics
- Fixed an issue where Wing Play and Route One tactical styles are missing from the Tactical Style dropdown menu in Tactics
- Fixed an issue where users were unable to unlock the ‘On Top of the World’ achievement on Microsoft Store

 

Well this is super frustrating. Is SI just doubling down on not telling player base what the changes are? 

I guess you can't critique a change if you don't know what it is? 

Tbh this is 1st year when I've really started to dive into forums and feedback but this is incredibly disheartening. Just feels like we're yelling at a wall. 

What a perfect description. You can’t critique what they don’t tell you!

the only way FM will get competition that it needs is through a power player like EA or if there is a split in the camp like there was with championship manager. There might be a bit of tension internally at SI so that’s not impossible. I’m sure a lot of people at SI dislike their cold communication with the customer and the way the game is developing.

feel for us Touch players. Since the update you can’t scout opposition properly so they made the game worse 😂. And all you get is the ostrich sand impression when you ask.

 

[JCastro]

Men,

This is really bad, I spend more time updatin the game than playing

 

Every month we need to spend lot of time, waste time actualizing the game. last one was 10 days ago..and now again. are we crazy or what.

 

think next year im not going buy the game

 

Good luck

[Johnleegriffin]

Will fm23 get another update patch to correct Spurs? 

[sdx15]

3 minutes ago, Johnleegriffin said:

Will fm23 get another update patch to correct Spurs? 

You can't correct that club.

And the answer is unknown. There is a pending data update for the Chinese league, but it's uncertain whether they'll change other league's data.

[Preveza]

27 minutes ago, Johnleegriffin said:

Will fm23 get another update patch to correct Spurs? 

No. It will not

[Aizawa]

Has anyone gotten a ridiculous amount of injuries ever since the update? I had consistent 8+ players out injured every day, 1 recovered, then another got injured in training/matches, so the injury list never decreased. I'm honestly so close to giving up on this save (it's a new save). My staffs are top notch, I've put players at half intensity in training, put in some recovery sessions and they STILL get injured in training. At this rate I'm tempted to rest all players and never let them train at all. Meanwhile during matches, I seem to get injuries every 2 matches...

[Choi seung won]

Matchengine improvements based on 500+ hours of FM23 playtime

1. right-footed players are too good with their left foot. Especially in offense, right-footed players are so good at executing left-footed shots that right-footed shots are practically meaningless. 

2. there are too many ridiculous volleys and ridiculous shots, especially those that go far into the air. 
 

[Oliver Roland]

2 hours ago, Aizawa said:

Has anyone gotten a ridiculous amount of injuries ever since the update? I had consistent 8+ players out injured every day, 1 recovered, then another got injured in training/matches, so the injury list never decreased. I'm honestly so close to giving up on this save (it's a new save). My staffs are top notch, I've put players at half intensity in training, put in some recovery sessions and they STILL get injured in training. At this rate I'm tempted to rest all players and never let them train at all. Meanwhile during matches, I seem to get injuries every 2 matches...

I do. Much worse than ever and I háve not changed anything like training or something.

Worst fm ever. 

[Domoboy23]

The heading % affecting the player ratings really needs looking at

[FMLegend1983]

I've been buying Champ Manager and all of the Football Managers from day dot and the last 2 editions namely FM22 and 23 have been dull, uninspiring, unresponsive and lacking innovation.

I'm sorry to say this but I just can't see £40 worth of game there, so I will vote with my wallet, not that it will make a difference.

I will take at least 2 years out from buying the game to see if anything has improved by then. 

Edited April 1, 2023 by FMLegend1983

[saiyaman]

On 30/03/2023 at 18:43, forameuss said:

You mean like they used to before they *checks notes* completely abandoned the genre after getting stomped to death by SI's effort?

There's very little chance EA are going in that direction. Why would they when they can continue to strangle the life out of their existing product and shake customers down for money?

 

SI's Football Manager is just a Football Manager game.

EA's FIFA or PES's games are: Arcade Simulations + Manager (not enough depth as SI) + Card game microtransaction game mode + Other game modes (minor).

I don't think it's fair to say that EA got "stomped" by SI when Football Management simulation isn't high on their list of priorities since they integrated FIFA Manager into the Career Mode umbrella. Their priority is Ultimate Team. They aren't even in the market to want to compete with SI, they blow SI out of the water when it comes to people who buy Football games. Football Management games are a niche market.

I say all this as a person who prefers to buy FM over FIFA every single time.

[SimonHoddle]

I’m beginning to realise this is the comedy edition of FM. joke keepers, clown defenders ignoring the ball, funny stats, ridiculous goals, nursery match graphics etc etc. they should have put Crusty on the cover to let us know. 
 

case in point. Just played Aston Villa who had lumbering CB Jan Vestegaard as CF. he managed a 100% passing success rate in 19 passes. As did his strike partner Leon Bailey with 27 passes all successful. Like I say….absolute comedy. Well done SI. it’s just that no one is laughing.

Edited April 2, 2023 by SimonHoddle

[ajw10]

Has anyone managed to get small forwards to get good ratings or is this another dreadful "quirk"? Am I doomed to seeing my smaller team get penalised because "headers won" is broken as well as the actual heading stats (which was meant to have been fixed in the latest update)?

[XaW]

1 hour ago, saiyaman said:

 

SI's Football Manager is just a Football Manager game.

EA's FIFA or PES's games are: Arcade Simulations + Manager (not enough depth as SI) + Card game microtransaction game mode + Other game modes (minor).

I don't think it's fair to say that EA got "stomped" by SI when Football Management simulation isn't high on their list of priorities since they integrated FIFA Manager into the Career Mode umbrella. Their priority is Ultimate Team. They aren't even in the market to want to compete with SI, they blow SI out of the water when it comes to people who buy Football games. Football Management games are a niche market.

I say all this as a person who prefers to buy FM over FIFA every single time.

Pretty sure he is referring to the old "FIFA Manager"-series, not FIFA itself. FIFA Manager was discontinued in 2014 or something.

[Hudson01]

3 hours ago, saiyaman said:

 

SI's Football Manager is just a Football Manager game.

EA's FIFA or PES's games are: Arcade Simulations + Manager (not enough depth as SI) + Card game microtransaction game mode + Other game modes (minor).

I don't think it's fair to say that EA got "stomped" by SI when Football Management simulation isn't high on their list of priorities since they integrated FIFA Manager into the Career Mode umbrella. Their priority is Ultimate Team. They aren't even in the market to want to compete with SI, they blow SI out of the water when it comes to people who buy Football games. Football Management games are a niche market.

I say all this as a person who prefers to buy FM over FIFA every single time.

SP Football Life .. is showing promise . Terrific 3D gameplay using the old PES21 engine but as a management game it still needs a lot of work , 

[Tony Wright 747]

2 hours ago, Hudson01 said:

SP Football Life .. is showing promise . Terrific 3D gameplay using the old PES21 engine but as a management game it still needs a lot of work , 

I would agree pretty basic gameplay especially off the field.  How can SP afford the licenses for all the correct logos, kits and atadiums while SI can't,  Brilliant graphics and sounds including club chants FM does not compare, very disappointing from SI, it is 2023.  As you say the writings on the wall.

[ajw10]

Why is the Club World Cup still a massive mess? Are FIFA really going to play a tournament where the best sides have players away on international duty? Will teams really not train at all during it? 

Why does every competition allow 5 subs apart from this one? 

[bielsadidnothingwrong]

I hope the fans don't mind not having a single home game for two straight months in the dead-middle of the season. 

Really disappointing to know this is a problem in the final edition of the game. 

Edited April 3, 2023 by bielsadidnothingwrong

[Arnar]

On 29/03/2023 at 16:16, themadsheep2001 said:

Please don't make false accusations about moderators. The only thing thats ever been consistently said is be constructive with feedback. And being frank, you're one of those who has repeatedly failed on this, hence the number of times mods have had to speak to you about your conduct and posting 

Comments like that are a good way to kill communication from the likes of Neil etc, no one wants to communicate with people who are rude. 

It's frustrating that this needs to be repeated, but a general point: before you press send on a message, take a second to process what you've written. if you cannot leave feedback without being rude, making personal digs, or being generally impolite, please don't post. Because I assure if you do and it falls into the above category it can only get you into trouble. 

Funny how this polite rule only applies when directed towards mods or si staff.

[XaW]

14 minutes ago, Arnar said:

Funny how this polite rule only applies when directed towards mods or si staff.

If you think this happens to other users or anyone for that matter, feel free to either report it using the report function, or the "contact us" button at the bottom of each page to directly contact SI.

[jc1]

What the hell happens to the game and ME when an update happens, a game that was OK but a bit boring to watch and play, now  suddenly becomes a nightmare.

 

Multiple shots per game hitting the woodwork.

 

Strikers suddenly unable to hit a shot on target when before the were looking at hitting 30 goals for the season.

 

Constant injuries either in game or in training, even to players who never get injuries.

 

Don't get me started on players just running at opponents and just runs into them instead of going round them causing them to lose the ball, it's like they're blind and don't see the player in front of them, truly bizarre.

 

This version of FM has definitely gone backwards IMHO, last years was poor and so far so is this one, I'll really be thinking hard whether to get FM24 , there's not enough enjoyment in the game for the price you pay.

[themadsheep2001]

12 minutes ago, jc1 said:

What the hell happens to the game and ME when an update happens, a game that was OK but a bit boring to watch and play, now  suddenly becomes a nightmare.

 

Multiple shots per game hitting the woodwork.

 

Strikers suddenly unable to hit a shot on target when before the were looking at hitting 30 goals for the season.

 

Constant injuries either in game or in training, even to players who never get injuries.

 

Don't get me started on players just running at opponents and just runs into them instead of going round them causing them to lose the ball, it's like they're blind and don't see the player in front of them, truly bizarre.

 

This version of FM has definitely gone backwards IMHO, last years was poor and so far so is this one, I'll really be thinking hard whether to get FM24 , there's not enough enjoyment in the game for the price you pay.

The last update didn't touch the ME or injuries.

[jc1]

3 minutes ago, themadsheep2001 said:

The last update didn't touch the ME or injuries.

Well something's gone awry then, I'm mid save and it's suddenly gone haywire.

I'm not talking about the small recent data update but the official winter one.

Edited April 3, 2023 by jc1

[themadsheep2001]

11 minutes ago, jc1 said:

Well something's gone awry then, I'm mid save and it's suddenly gone haywire.

I'm not talking about the small recent data update but the official winter one.

That would have brought a raft of changes, although that would have decreased the injury rate in training 

 

[andu1]

I loathe the Goalkeepers in this FM... last 2 games my Goalkeeper 6.3 and 6.5. Opposition Gk 8 and 7.6

Guess who manages the first underperforming team. And the average rating of opposition keepers.

 

Edited April 3, 2023 by andu1

[sdx15]

What's the point of Not interested list if I'll get bombarded with "player put on loan/transfer list/set for release" inbox items for those players multiple times in a row?

[greenz81]

I have felt a constant frustration with the lack of communication and the constant bugs in the Football Manager game for the past five years. From a customer's perspective, these issues can make the game experience less enjoyable and may negatively impact their willingness to continue purchasing future versions.

While it's important for us users to report bugs in the game, it's also the responsibility of the game developers to ensure that the bug tracker is up-to-date and that they actively seek out and address issues. If the bug tracker is not updated, it makes it difficult for users to provide the necessary feedback, and it can create a frustrating experience for those who are trying to report issues.

Furthermore, it's not acceptable to blame the end user for not inputting bugs when the developers themselves are responsible for the quality of the product they release. Constant excuses and bugs returning from previous versions are not acceptable, and it's essential for game developers to take responsibility for their mistakes and work to improve the game's quality.

In conclusion, it's crucial for game developers like SIGames to prioritize communication with their customers and to actively seek out and address bugs in their games. This can help create a more enjoyable and satisfying experience for users, leading to increased customer loyalty and positive reviews.

Our biggest gripe is the lack of commuication! Beta testing is basically pre-release (which is something that was done in the 90's/00's because shops would sell out of the PHYSICAL product) and there is no relevant feedback. This year alone was the biggest 'con' of it all. Promised multiple 'features' when in reality are not and still havent fixed previous 'features'!

This is my feedback about the game. This is my feedback about the producers of the game. This is feedback from your community. 

[Lempicka]

This is probably my last bit of feedback on the game as I think everything has now been covered. For me, FM23 is just not as enjoyable as previous versions and for the first time ever, I'm close to uninstalling and going back to a previous version. I've never uninstalled before October and that's a real shame.

My longest save at the moment has been three and a half seasons and I've lost count at how many times I have started over again. Usually by April, I've long settled into a save and about 7-9 seasons in. This isn't burnout and I don't really need a break from FM (I've still got enjoyable FM12 and 17 saves on the back-burner). My current FM23 save will be my last (in this version).

I really want to get into it, but it's a frustrating mess at times. A clickfest of monotonous questions, a frustrating ME, very poor IA managers and a load of rehashed features bolted on for good measure. 

If I had to summarise FM23 in a picture, it would be this:

 

Edited April 4, 2023 by Lempicka

[Neil Brock]

17 hours ago, greenz81 said:

I have felt a constant frustration with the lack of communication and the constant bugs in the Football Manager game for the past five years. From a customer's perspective, these issues can make the game experience less enjoyable and may negatively impact their willingness to continue purchasing future versions.

While it's important for us users to report bugs in the game, it's also the responsibility of the game developers to ensure that the bug tracker is up-to-date and that they actively seek out and address issues. If the bug tracker is not updated, it makes it difficult for users to provide the necessary feedback, and it can create a frustrating experience for those who are trying to report issues.

Furthermore, it's not acceptable to blame the end user for not inputting bugs when the developers themselves are responsible for the quality of the product they release. Constant excuses and bugs returning from previous versions are not acceptable, and it's essential for game developers to take responsibility for their mistakes and work to improve the game's quality.

In conclusion, it's crucial for game developers like SIGames to prioritize communication with their customers and to actively seek out and address bugs in their games. This can help create a more enjoyable and satisfying experience for users, leading to increased customer loyalty and positive reviews.

Our biggest gripe is the lack of commuication! Beta testing is basically pre-release (which is something that was done in the 90's/00's because shops would sell out of the PHYSICAL product) and there is no relevant feedback. This year alone was the biggest 'con' of it all. Promised multiple 'features' when in reality are not and still havent fixed previous 'features'!

This is my feedback about the game. This is my feedback about the producers of the game. This is feedback from your community. 

We have a limited number of resources available to us, but where possible we try to read and reply to every single issue raised within the Bug Tracker. 

Nobody blames players for 'not raising bugs' - but what it can do is be extremely helpful to allow us to quickly investigate an issue, giving us more chance of being able to provide a fix on it. In a number of cases if an issue is raised, it's already known internally already, but of course if there are say millions of people playing the game, they're likely to see and encounter more than an internal test team of say 20 or 30 people. Sometimes situations arise in very specific circumstances and it would require a test team to perhaps take hours or even days to reproduce, when an uploaded save can get us to that point almost immediately.  

We do try and be transparent where we can, and I'm hopeful that in the future we'll be able to do so on more fronts regarding more things related to the Football Manager series. We have seen instances where we've had pushback against being transparent, especially when having to deliver information people aren't happy with - say for instance why something works the way it does, or if we're unable to make specific changes requested, but that hasn't stopped us being proactive across both these forums and our other communication channels. 

However when feedback states things like we're 'conning' our players or that we're making 'excuses', it's at risk of becoming a toxic environment where we're spending time defending ourselves against unhelpful snipes and falsehoods rather than being able to engage in constructive discussion. 

We all want FM to be the best it possibly can be, and we know our players and community are a huge part of that. While more people are playing our games than ever before, we also know we're not going to be able to please everyone. Either with how we communicate or how the game changes over time.

[Bobek]

You guys think that the last update (the Chinese transfer window) will be out this week? 

I want to play longterm save, just waiting for a last patch

[gggfunk]

3 minutes ago, Bobek said:

You guys think that the last update (the Chinese transfer window) will be out this week? 

I want to play longterm save, just waiting for a last patch

Good question,

Taking advantage that @Neil Brock is here, is there any chance you could tell us an approximate time to expect the very final update?

[vcpinheiro14]

1 hora atrás, Neil Brock disse:

We do try and be transparent where we can, and I'm hopeful that in the future we'll be able to do so on more fronts regarding more things related to the Football Manager series. We have seen instances where we've had pushback against being transparent, especially when having to deliver information people aren't happy with - say for instance why something works the way it does, or if we're unable to make specific changes requested, but that hasn't stopped us being proactive across both these forums and our other communication channels. 

Hi @Neil Brock . Is there an interview or statement about SI's documentation policy of the game? I assume everyone involved is acting in good faith so i'm not complaining about anyone's character, but i wanted to raise an issue that is unanimous in the hardcore player's communities i'm involved. There is a perceived excessive secrecy about the game's mechanics.

This wouldn't be a great problem if the game was at a state of polishment where bugs were rare or the texts about a mechanic corresponded to its actual behavior. He have a lot of posts, blogs, and social media channels dedicated to clarify what concepts actually mean in the game and what is or not working as intended. 

Thus i suggest that the team reviews the in-game text and off-game documentation and manual to make things more clear and complete. This can be good for gamers' comprehension of what is actually an error and not a misuse, bringin forth better feedback to SI. 

[Neil Brock]

7 minutes ago, gggfunk said:

Good question,

Taking advantage that @Neil Brock is here, is there any chance you could tell us an approximate time to expect the very final update?

It's a bit out of our hands currently as there's been a bit of uncertainty IRL with a few things related to the competition (including the transfer window dates), but as said when releasing the Final Update, that update for that will only be for Chinese league and player data.  

[XaW]

21 minutes ago, Bobek said:

You guys think that the last update (the Chinese transfer window) will be out this week? 

I want to play longterm save, just waiting for a last patch

Having a look around there seems to uncertainty about when the window closes, as I've seen March 1st, April 10th, April 14th and several others, so if SI are going to release the update at the end of it, I suspect it has to actually officially close first!  

[SimonHoddle]

1 hour ago, Neil Brock said:

We have a limited number of resources available to us, but where possible we try to read and reply to every single issue raised within the Bug Tracker. 

Nobody blames players for 'not raising bugs' - but what it can do is be extremely helpful to allow us to quickly investigate an issue, giving us more chance of being able to provide a fix on it. In a number of cases if an issue is raised, it's already known internally already, but of course if there are say millions of people playing the game, they're likely to see and encounter more than an internal test team of say 20 or 30 people. Sometimes situations arise in very specific circumstances and it would require a test team to perhaps take hours or even days to reproduce, when an uploaded save can get us to that point almost immediately.  

We do try and be transparent where we can, and I'm hopeful that in the future we'll be able to do so on more fronts regarding more things related to the Football Manager series. We have seen instances where we've had pushback against being transparent, especially when having to deliver information people aren't happy with - say for instance why something works the way it does, or if we're unable to make specific changes requested, but that hasn't stopped us being proactive across both these forums and our other communication channels. 

However when feedback states things like we're 'conning' our players or that we're making 'excuses', it's at risk of becoming a toxic environment where we're spending time defending ourselves against unhelpful snipes and falsehoods rather than being able to engage in constructive discussion. 

We all want FM to be the best it possibly can be, and we know our players and community are a huge part of that. While more people are playing our games than ever before, we also know we're not going to be able to please everyone. Either with how we communicate or how the game changes over time.

There has never been individual criticism from me and the likes of yourself are easy to engage with, which is very much appreciated. It’s the communication from the company that can frustrate.

there are several instances when the gamer doesn’t know if they’re experiencing a bug or if it’s part of the game. Eg I play Touch and the scouting for opposition has deteriorated significantly since the update. Idk if that’s a bug or intentional. I have asked and haven’t had an answer.

ultimately I pay £180 to access Touch and Console. Without getting into a debate about graphics, ME and bugs - there is significant scope for SI to be much clearer about several things. I think we would appreciate 

i) from SI  a published list of known bugs and things that weren’t fixed post update.

ii) much clearer communication on gameplay and ME. not some PR exercise YouTube video. I mean a grown up workshop or other interaction which discusses the idiosyncrasies of the latest version. FM isn’t real life football and I don’t think the gamers time is well spent guessing new dynamics every year. Someone from SI explaining that defensive football is particularly complex in the game and where DLs match up in ME versus tactical instructions for example 

iii) more interaction between gamer and company, and maybe a little acknowledgement of past missteps. My angst towards your brilliant company first really started from 17 to 18 when the match graphics were frankly ruined without any explanation and PR pieces about improvements when actually it went into full reverse.

SI produce one of the greatest games IMO. your personal communication is really appreciated. Like I say, I spend £180 so I’m giving you guys good money. For that, frankly, we do expect a little more than we’ve seen this year.

[santy001]

The buy-in for the FM game is not £180. You might feel like you ought to get more for your money, but you have to remember you've made the conscious decision to apparently buy the game at least 4 times. The fact you've done that when you have the issues you've mentioned is rather baffling to me. 

SI could do the things you've mentioned, and do you know what would be the quickest argument against those?

- Why don't you spend more time working on the game rather than having developers creating video content and workshops that overlaps with what the community already creates?

- Why don't you spend more time working on the game rather than talking about things that didn't go as intended in the past?

- Why don't you spend more time working on the game rather than having developers spend significant chunks of time on community interaction?

- Why don't you spend more time working on the game rather than putting together a list of the issues you haven't been able to fix?

The time for all these things has to be found from somewhere, and by putting the people best equipped to do each of these on it, it only serves to eat into their time working on the game. When you have a finite number of hours in which to develop a game, you have to put them to good use. 

The thing most confusing to me is that you find the communication from the company that can frustrate, but find no issues with Neil who is part of the Sports Interactive Community Team and is there to communicate in part on behalf of the company. Whether you intended it or not, it basically reads as a "Yeah you do a good job. But I want someone with a more grand title to speak to."

Maybe Neil just needs a bump up to Emperor of the Sports Interactive Community Team?

[SimonHoddle]

16 minutes ago, santy001 said:

The buy-in for the FM game is not £180. You might feel like you ought to get more for your money, but you have to remember you've made the conscious decision to apparently buy the game at least 4 times. The fact you've done that when you have the issues you've mentioned is rather baffling to me. 

SI could do the things you've mentioned, and do you know what would be the quickest argument against those?

- Why don't you spend more time working on the game rather than having developers creating video content and workshops that overlaps with what the community already creates?

- Why don't you spend more time working on the game rather than talking about things that didn't go as intended in the past?

- Why don't you spend more time working on the game rather than having developers spend significant chunks of time on community interaction?

- Why don't you spend more time working on the game rather than putting together a list of the issues you haven't been able to fix?

The time for all these things has to be found from somewhere, and by putting the people best equipped to do each of these on it, it only serves to eat into their time working on the game. When you have a finite number of hours in which to develop a game, you have to put them to good use. 

The thing most confusing to me is that you find the communication from the company that can frustrate, but find no issues with Neil who is part of the Sports Interactive Community Team and is there to communicate in part on behalf of the company. Whether you intended it or not, it basically reads as a "Yeah you do a good job. But I want someone with a more grand title to speak to."

Maybe Neil just needs a bump up to Emperor of the Sports Interactive Community Team?

Hmmmmmm. I welcome your reply, both the sarcasm and the genuine parts :-)

I pay £180 because I have Touch on Apple Arcade for £5 pm and Console on Game Pass for £10 pm. I don’t play any other games. I might actually be able to buy Console outright so could probably save money there. Either way it’s a premium price for a game.

what you’re talking about with the grand title piece god only knows. V funny though. To clarify my post - which has received multiple likes so I assume is quite comprehensible…... what I want is  pro-active communication from SI.
 

I would like them to simply list out known bugs. And clear explanations of what is missing/ been changed in each version and update. If you truly think compiling a list of bugs and changes would eat up so much time that game development would be affected….then I can only believe there are millions of bugs or SI staff type very slowly.

I would like a better YouTube communication strategy which doesn’t focus on fluff but goes into detail once or twice a year! Not exactly draining.

FM has record players, therefore record profits I assume. Or at least revenues. Maybe employ one person who can take up more of a communication role. And I don’t give a damn what job title you give them but I do give a damn that SI would be proactively positively comprehensively communicating with its customers.

love the moderators here btw. You do such a tough job for no money. Proper dedication 

[santy001]

You've got 3 members of the community team there who have amassed around 118,000 posts on these forums between them. That's not including any developers, I checked one developer Edl and he has around 18k posts, Lucas 36k who is on the QA and Accessibility side they're just a few names from the top threads in this section and the FM touch section. 

SI employ multiple people in the community facing teams. It's never going to be possible to answer every question, to give a detailed response to everything. But for years there's been the option to view posts from SI staff directly:

Developer Posts - Sports Interactive Community (sigames.com)

Naturally they are human beings so they don't post exclusively about their work, but there is tremendous engagement and interaction from SI across these forums. 

In addition to this, you do indeed have the moderators posting too. While we don't have unfettered access to developers, there are communication channels open to us to ask additional questions. We signpost things to SI to get a response on at times. Moderators also add information collated from around the forums provided by SI or obtained privately through our own channels and share that with the community too. There isn't too much more the developers can add about tactics in the game beyond what Rashidi provides in his content for example. In part because some things will always be omitted because its not intended for the player to have that level of information on the inner workings of the game.

Sharing a bugs list? Well most of the internal information about bugs will likely contain sensitive information. Either from a development perspective, corporate perspective or even data protection perspective. It will also be on an internal system. To reliably sanitise that would be an enormous task. To change the bug logging process to remove those considerations entirely is not viable. There's a very real argument that ignorance is bliss too. Despite being a researcher I actively avoid a lot of other information to make sure I don't know the -10/-9/-8, high PA, high CA players (aside from those I rate of course). Because knowing them ruins the game for me. Some people can't resist the temptation to find it out and it in turn ruins the game for them and they're stuck doing it over & over. Not all bugs are obvious but being given the information on what to look for in what situation to encounter a bug doesn't really add anything positive to the experience. If a bug will ruin the game and make it so you don't want to play, so therefore you need to know in advance, well not all bugs are known and invariably you cannot avoid all bugs. Therefore, playing the game would be the wrong decision if it truly means that much.

- - - - -

When it comes to how much you're paying to access the game, you realise those are still your decisions to have made. If you value FM at £180 as it is, and are prepared to pay that much to play it, that is still on you. It's enough to have bought the game 4 times at £45. Considering the game has been on sale since then you could have paid far less and had the same FM experience. It has no validity as a criticism though that you've decided to pay a premium for a service that offers FM as part of that service. If you seriously pay that much for those two services... just to play FM then that's mind-blowing to me. As great a value for money as FM is, and even at my own 450 hours played would only be a cost of 40p per hour, it makes no logical sense. 

[Tyburn]

I think the main issue people have is the game is stagnant. It hasn’t really changed in years. Of course, it’s a football manager simulation, it doesn’t need to change that much. In fact, the problem I see is, it’s already near perfect.

Its because of this that the numerous bugs that have been around for years, coupled with new “features” nobody asked for, is making lots of players disillusioned with the series.

The game is crying out for refinement. The base is superb, the execution is not. My guess is that huge amounts of resources are going on next years (or the year after?) version as this will be the version that massively changes the way the game can be played with the introduction of the women’s game. FM23 feels more like a patch than any version I can remember.

It’s the only reason I can think of as to why this years version is so lacking in any new meaningful features, and why the overall experience is almost exactly like fm22, fm21, and perhaps even earlier versions. With all the same issues and bugs. Nowhere near enough effort has been made on FM23 in my opinion to address some of the long running issues and “features” users have continually pointed out do not work. The fact so many long running bugs are present surely highlights this.

The cycle of beta (fun), then patch, patch, just feels like a massive lottery to me. Not only can, and does, the ME get worse, but after the last patch unresolved issues and bugs are here to stay until the next version of FM. Then they’re not even fixed then! It’s deeply frustrating.

Please SI, rather than waste resources on adding new “features”, just fix what you’ve got.

[themodelcitizen]

Gamebreaking Gold Cup qualifying bug is still present, isn't it? That one was raised multiple times by multiple people in the bugs forum after each previous update, and the developers indicated it was being looked at. Isn't that just changing the setup date for the Gold Cup?

[Neil Brock]

11 hours ago, themodelcitizen said:

Gamebreaking Gold Cup qualifying bug is still present, isn't it? That one was raised multiple times by multiple people in the bugs forum after each previous update, and the developers indicated it was being looked at. Isn't that just changing the setup date for the Gold Cup?

Wasn't something we were able to easily address without knock-ons elsewhere. The main competition still runs to completion, it's just as noted there are problems with the qualifiers not reflecting what happens in the play-offs, so the lowest ranked teams in the competition will be more randomised. Saying that, I believe it's likely to pick the stronger ranked teams from those play-offs, meaning it reflects the most likeliest outcome of said qualifiers. 

[Neil Brock]

12 hours ago, Tyburn said:

I think the main issue people have is the game is stagnant. It hasn’t really changed in years. Of course, it’s a football manager simulation, it doesn’t need to change that much. In fact, the problem I see is, it’s already near perfect.

Its because of this that the numerous bugs that have been around for years, coupled with new “features” nobody asked for, is making lots of players disillusioned with the series.

The game is crying out for refinement. The base is superb, the execution is not. My guess is that huge amounts of resources are going on next years (or the year after?) version as this will be the version that massively changes the way the game can be played with the introduction of the women’s game. FM23 feels more like a patch than any version I can remember.

It’s the only reason I can think of as to why this years version is so lacking in any new meaningful features, and why the overall experience is almost exactly like fm22, fm21, and perhaps even earlier versions. With all the same issues and bugs. Nowhere near enough effort has been made on FM23 in my opinion to address some of the long running issues and “features” users have continually pointed out do not work. The fact so many long running bugs are present surely highlights this.

The cycle of beta (fun), then patch, patch, just feels like a massive lottery to me. Not only can, and does, the ME get worse, but after the last patch unresolved issues and bugs are here to stay until the next version of FM. Then they’re not even fixed then! It’s deeply frustrating.

Please SI, rather than waste resources on adding new “features”, just fix what you’ve got.

A huge amount of the features that come into the game come from within the community, so would say it's inaccurate to say "nobody asked for" them. You also tend to find when we release a game that concentrates more on us fine-tuning what's already in the game rather than concentrating on new features, some players can be quick to claim the version is no more than a 'glorified data update' or we've been 'lazy', so of course with each new version we have to consider the expectations of all players. 

As we always say in relation to bugs, if you're aware any, do feel free to raise them via our Bug Tracker here - https://community.sigames.com/bugtracker/ to make sure they team are aware. Everything is read, reviewed and then prioritised. 

Some elements, especially those that have a huge impact on the game, such as within the match engine, transfer market, interaction and AI squad building are constantly evolving and are long-term projects which require balancing and improvements over time. They're not systems you can rip up and start again from scratch. You're right in the sense resources need to be balanced across the entire game, focusing on areas which effect the largest proportion of our players. That's not to say we don't also pay attention to the vocal core players as well, considering longer term gameplay, those less-played leagues and different playing styles. 

As said in a previous post, we know we can't please everyone. We always feel we make sure to release updates that improve the game, especially regarding the match engine. And our team feels our FM23 updates have done that. Which is backed up by our sentiment data from across the entire community, which this forum is a part of. 

We will of course take all feedback on board that we receive from whatever avenue it comes from and appreciate those that raise considered and constructive points. 

[greenz81]

On 04/04/2023 at 11:56, Neil Brock said:

We have a limited number of resources available to us, but where possible we try to read and reply to every single issue raised within the Bug Tracker. 

Nobody blames players for 'not raising bugs' - but what it can do is be extremely helpful to allow us to quickly investigate an issue, giving us more chance of being able to provide a fix on it. In a number of cases if an issue is raised, it's already known internally already, but of course if there are say millions of people playing the game, they're likely to see and encounter more than an internal test team of say 20 or 30 people. Sometimes situations arise in very specific circumstances and it would require a test team to perhaps take hours or even days to reproduce, when an uploaded save can get us to that point almost immediately.

We go around in circles but again... you have a BETA branch you do not utilise. It sounds like you are saying its better to release a game with a known bug(s) so millions of users experience it (again not knowing if it is a bug or feature because SI dont inform us) then to utilise the BETA branch?

You have limited resources.... so use the BETA branch. You use that BETA branch, there would be alot more people willing to assist.

There are so many companies that use there beta branch and if you look at their forums.... not toxic at all. Constant communications. Features added that users wanted adding. Features removed that users wanted removed. These are the companies who listen to their community, instead of creating excuses that the reason you dont communicate is a toxic environment. These are your forums at the end of the day. People wouldnt come to these forums if the game was working like it should. We'd be too busy playing it!

Talking of features... set pieces again! We have football teams that have set piece coaches... but you guys already know this as you are constantly communicating with football clubs. I've known of set piece coaches for at least 3 years, i'd imagine you guys know of it longer, so why has that feature not be implented/improved? These are features users want. Even having a simple conversation with one of your players can destroy the morale of the whole team!! I was playing a game the other day with no action, just pure conversation. OMG! Thats what FM needs. If morale of a football team so vital for this game, at least give us better tools.

Finally, I think you guys shot yourselves in the foot the way you hyped the game up at the start. Then when you released the game after BETA, without a single change to the match engine, then pointed out you had a version ready but the defenders passing numbers were too high.... now we have the March patch, which basically has that exact same issue.... 5 months later!

 

Please use your BETA branch (when in reality its just a pre-purchase) after the game gets released!! Please move into the year 2023! Also you need to employ some of the guys in the editor forums!! The amount of information they put into the game to give us  a much better experience than the vanillia version. If it wasnt for them guys, i wouldnt play FM as it has been released, just feels incomplete.

 

[themadsheep2001]

6 minutes ago, greenz81 said:

We go around in circles but again... you have a BETA branch you do not utilise. It sounds like you are saying its better to release a game with a known bug(s) so millions of users experience it (again not knowing if it is a bug or feature because SI dont inform us) then to utilise the BETA branch?

You have limited resources.... so use the BETA branch. You use that BETA branch, there would be alot more people willing to assist.

There are so many companies that use there beta branch and if you look at their forums.... not toxic at all. Constant communications. Features added that users wanted adding. Features removed that users wanted removed. These are the companies who listen to their community, instead of creating excuses that the reason you dont communicate is a toxic environment. These are your forums at the end of the day. People wouldnt come to these forums if the game was working like it should. We'd be too busy playing it!

Talking of features... set pieces again! We have football teams that have set piece coaches... but you guys already know this as you are constantly communicating with football clubs. I've known of set piece coaches for at least 3 years, i'd imagine you guys know of it longer, so why has that feature not be implented/improved? These are features users want. Even having a simple conversation with one of your players can destroy the morale of the whole team!! I was playing a game the other day with no action, just pure conversation. OMG! Thats what FM needs. If morale of a football team so vital for this game, at least give us better tools.

Finally, I think you guys shot yourselves in the foot the way you hyped the game up at the start. Then when you released the game after BETA, without a single change to the match engine, then pointed out you had a version ready but the defenders passing numbers were too high.... now we have the March patch, which basically has that exact same issue.... 5 months later!

 

Please use your BETA branch (when in reality its just a pre-purchase) after the game gets released!! Please move into the year 2023! Also you need to employ some of the guys in the editor forums!! The amount of information they put into the game to give us  a much better experience than the vanillia version. If it wasnt for them guys, i wouldnt play FM as it has been released, just feels incomplete.

 

They do use the beta branch, they infact have mutilple ways they take in information. I'm pretty sure I have explained this to you before. There's not much point in communication if you're not willing to take in said communication. 

[greenz81]

On 01/12/2022 at 21:48, themadsheep2001 said:

As has been mentioned before, the overall public uptake was terrible the last time, it was actually lower than the private beta. So that's why it's never come back 

Are you sure?

[themadsheep2001]

1 minute ago, greenz81 said:

Are you sure?

What's the question?

[greenz81]

 

2 minutes ago, greenz81 said:

On 01/12/2022 at 21:48, themadsheep2001 said:

As has been mentioned before, the overall public uptake was terrible the last time, it was actually lower than the private beta. So that's why it's never come back 

You said this to me last year with regards to the public beta? Neil has mentioned millions of users could spot a bug better than 20-30 internal beta testers. A 1000 public beta testers is better than none. There is no harm in just having a public beta branch open. Even if you are not going to use it much for any feedback, a user can still test it and probably spot something SI missed completely.

[Tyburn]

2 hours ago, Neil Brock said:

A huge amount of the features that come into the game come from within the community, so would say it's inaccurate to say "nobody asked for" them. You also tend to find when we release a game that concentrates more on us fine-tuning what's already in the game rather than concentrating on new features, some players can be quick to claim the version is no more than a 'glorified data update' or we've been 'lazy', so of course with each new version we have to consider the expectations of all players. 

As we always say in relation to bugs, if you're aware any, do feel free to raise them via our Bug Tracker here - https://community.sigames.com/bugtracker/ to make sure they team are aware. Everything is read, reviewed and then prioritised. 

Some elements, especially those that have a huge impact on the game, such as within the match engine, transfer market, interaction and AI squad building are constantly evolving and are long-term projects which require balancing and improvements over time. They're not systems you can rip up and start again from scratch. You're right in the sense resources need to be balanced across the entire game, focusing on areas which effect the largest proportion of our players. That's not to say we don't also pay attention to the vocal core players as well, considering longer term gameplay, those less-played leagues and different playing styles. 

As said in a previous post, we know we can't please everyone. We always feel we make sure to release updates that improve the game, especially regarding the match engine. And our team feels our FM23 updates have done that. Which is backed up by our sentiment data from across the entire community, which this forum is a part of. 

We will of course take all feedback on board that we receive from whatever avenue it comes from and appreciate those that raise considered and constructive points. 

Sorry Neil, but who asked for earrings??