Lawlore Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 The question, akkm, is that if someone is bothered and concerned enough about something in the game to post about it, then is it really that much more of an effort to actually provide SI with a starting point by uploading a save or PKM or screenshot? On the flip side, posting about something is all well and good, but there's no guarantee that SI can find/reproduce it, so there's no guarantee that anything will ever happen, and your post has been for nothing. Giving them something to work with, be it a save or a PKM, is going to guarantee that your specific problem does get some specific attention, so they can do their job- not searching for bugs, but actually fixing them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
akkm Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 So I made a flippant analogy that didn't really stand up. Oh well.As SI employees have said, they can try and investigate issues without evidence. And they do. But I'm talking about the ones that say "this isn't working". And that's it. Reporting a bug with no save/PKM but giving full details of your system/specs/what you were doing/any other supplementary evidence is good, and can give SI a direction to go in. I'm not getting at those people. But if you just say something is broken then often it can be a struggle to find even a direction to go in. At that point, should SI travel down what could end up being a massive rabbit-hole, or should they fix the things that they have reproducable evidence for first because it'll probably end up being less of a time-sink? There needs to be a balance in this - just saying that it isn't your responsibility and demanding SI "do their job" is short-sighted. They will continue to do their job, but a lot of the time they need our help in that. I don't think that's too much to ask. But users helping with bug reports is not doing SI's job for them. I agree with what you've said there but the irony of your short sighted suggestion hasn't been missed . also your spin and back tracking is amusing...your ill conceived retort to the guy above was in reference to his suggestion that many people suggest a problem...so if many are experiencing a problem then yes its fair to say SI should do their job and look into rather than your myopic approach of fixing potentially smaller problems just because they have reproducable evidence and not exploring the other thing just because it may waste time. That's hardly the right approach...as you say there needs to be a balance in this and reading what i initially posted suggest you've missed that point...I agree that customer feedback has proven useful and is really great way to develop the game...its just there's no point burying your head in the sand and fixing easier problems and ignoring the bigger problem (which is what poster had initially suggested) and saying 'what's SI supposed to do'...as i said ironically...that's the short sighted approach You're essentially on the right track and what you say makes sense at a lower level its just that it's too much of a small picture mindset. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
akkm Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 The question, akkm, is that if someone is bothered and concerned enough about something in the game to post about it, then is it really that much more of an effort to actually provide SI with a starting point by uploading a save or PKM or screenshot?On the flip side, posting about something is all well and good, but there's no guarantee that SI can find/reproduce it, so there's no guarantee that anything will ever happen, and your post has been for nothing. Giving them something to work with, be it a save or a PKM, is going to guarantee that your specific problem does get some specific attention, so they can do their job- not searching for bugs, but actually fixing them. I agree with all that lawlore...Just that tho by extension if customers don't provide evidence but are all experiencing something then SI should serch for the bug themselves if ultimately no one provides them with evidence...the reality is people usually do if it is the widespread issue that keithfc alluded to. Really what I'm saying is not against SI...they DO do their job...just its the attitude that customer has to reproduce the bug. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
forameuss Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 I agree with what you've said there but the irony of your short sighted suggestion hasn't been missed .also your spin and back tracking is amusing...your ill conceived retort to the guy above was in reference to his suggestion that many people suggest a problem...so if many are experiencing a problem then yes its fair to say SI should do their job and look into rather than your myopic approach of fixing potentially smaller problems just because they have reproducable evidence and not exploring the other thing just because it may waste time. That's hardly the right approach...as you say there needs to be a balance in this and reading what i initially posted suggest you've missed that point...I agree that customer feedback has proven useful and is really great way to develop the game...its just there's no point burying your head in the sand and fixing easier problems and ignoring the bigger problem (which is what poster had initially suggested) and saying 'what's SI supposed to do'...as i said ironically...that's the short sighted approach You're essentially on the right track and what you say makes sense at a lower level its just that it's too much of a small picture mindset. You can almost smell the smug... Nothing about what I said has any reference to what SI actually do. Believe it or not, I don't actually speak for them. Since you're not really reading anything I'm saying, and just taking it as some kind of point-scoring exercise for yourself, then...you win, I guess? Congratulations. Never mind that I'm saying pretty much exactly the same as Lawlore - who put it very well, as you seem to agree - so carry on. SI will continue to do what they're doing, but they could probably do it a lot better with better reporting. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir James Lancaster Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 I can see why no SI developers post on this forum. If I were an SI developer I'd like to post "Why don't you all shut up as none of you have any clue what you are talking about". Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brawla123 Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 I can see why no SI developers post on this forum. If I were an SI developer I'd like to post "Why don't you all shut up as none of you have any clue what you are talking about". And that is exactly why you'll never be one. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KongeMeier Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 Just wanted to say I'm enjoying the game! There are the occational weird thing in the ME, but that doesn't bother me too much! What I hope to see fixed in the February-update are the Inverted WBs and the Libero roles. http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/402381-Reviewed-Libero-Attack-Role http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/400823-Reviewed-Inverted-Wingbacks There should be plenty of info and examples available in the links! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RTHerringbone Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 Just wanted to say I'm enjoying the game! There are the occational weird thing in the ME, but that doesn't bother me too much!What I hope to see fixed in the February-update are the Inverted WBs and the Libero roles. http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/402381-Reviewed-Libero-Attack-Role http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/400823-Reviewed-Inverted-Wingbacks There should be plenty of info and examples available in the links! There are no new threads relating to the IWB or Libero (or Half Back, for that matter ) in the Bugs Forum for the current ME. If these Roles are still not working in a Ronseal manner, SI would welcome timed examples of unexpected positioning / behaviour from the latest ME. As ever, the Bug threads with numerous timed .pkm examples from numerous matches are the ones which gain most traction. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KongeMeier Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 There are no new threads relating to the IWB or Libero (or Half Back, for that matter ) in the Bugs Forum for the current ME. If these Roles are still not working in a Ronseal manner, SI would welcome timed examples of unexpected positioning / behaviour from the latest ME. As ever, the Bug threads with numerous timed .pkm examples from numerous matches are the ones which gain most traction. Seriously!?!? The roles play EXACTLY as they did in the beta so starting new threads explaining the exact same thing would be kinda redundant and insulting SI's employees intelligence! Each time we brought this up we were told that it was too far down the priority list (I actually think it was you, RT ). I just assumed that when a bug thread got "reviewed" SI were aware of the issue and fix it if they had enough time and were able to. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KongeMeier Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 I get that, Alex! Still, I feel there should be plenty of examples of how Shrewnaldo (IWB) and myself (LB(a)) think these roles should behave. Either the desctiption of the roles should be changed, or even better, make the roles behave like they do in the description. With that said I will try to record even more examples... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fredric Drum Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 A player asks me for first team football, I say sure, you'll play. He then gets a couple of games and gets injured for a couple of months. He says it's all right, he'll give me more time to let him play. Then the season ends. Mid-holiday the player barges into my vacation home, steaming with fury because he hasn't played lately. I call men in white coats to have a chat with him. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingjericho Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 I'd like to see a small detail adressed regarding the tactics screen. Players shouldn't overlap on the tactics pitch. For example if I employ a shadow striker behind a false nine, the two player icons partially conflict in the same space. I understand (although I don't aesthetically like it) the positioning is defined by the player's role and duty, but there should be a limited amount of pixels the icon could move, so that even in the case mentioned above the icons would not overlap. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shake Appeal Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 One piece of actual feedback I have, although maybe it tends into "things you'd like to see in future versions", is that how players assess their playing time is a constant nuisance in FM15. Right now you have to constantly negotiate with them over starts and minutes (which has become extreme in FM15, where I am always arguing with my third-choice players about first-team football in a way that seems thoroughly unlike real life; the game is full of professionals who are either happy to pick up a pay check or happy to sacrifice playing time for the privilege of being at a particular club). I'd prefer to see their understanding of what is a fair amount of playing time much more closely aligned with squad status: if a player is "Key," he'll want to know why he wasn't selected whenever he was fit and available; if he's a "Backup," he'll only complain if he didn't even make the squad for a cup game. As part of this, players should understand the context of the games they're missing: are they dead rubbers at season's end, or cup games the board doesn't care about, or title deciders? To balance this, you'd need to make squad status much, much harder to adjust without players kicking up a fuss, and you'd have to make its role in contract negotiations much more important (with agents, the board and even other players watching your choice like hawks). But it would make players' demands both less frequent and more reasoned, rather than just seeming like a ticking morale bomb. It would move the "negotiation" to the front end, allowing the user to set and manage expectations, rather than to the back end, where they have to respond to them or risk outright mutiny. All this should be second to a complete overhaul of Reputation, of course... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sussex Hammer Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 Can someone just shoot Azpilicueta of Chelsea as his pesky throw ins are becoming a bit of a joke. Love to know how many assists from a throw this guy has. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
akkm Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 You can almost smell the smug...Nothing about what I said has any reference to what SI actually do. Believe it or not, I don't actually speak for them. Since you're not really reading anything I'm saying, and just taking it as some kind of point-scoring exercise for yourself, then...you win, I guess? Congratulations. Never mind that I'm saying pretty much exactly the same as Lawlore - who put it very well, as you seem to agree - so carry on. SI will continue to do what they're doing, but they could probably do it a lot better with better reporting. Oh you were viewing that as some sort of point scoring exercise/competition…ah come on, you should have told me lol. Or… is it more that you are simply projecting ? Hmmm…heightened senses (smell)/projecting(as above)/paranoia(I was taking someone else’s side over yours)…it’s all very revealing. Oh and I do believe that don’t actually speak for SI. I guess the real question is whether or not you yourself actually believe you do or not…ok ok..i’m sorry…that was uncalled for lol Come on…would ya relax and don’t take it so personally. Anyway…I’m off to the high road…I’ll leave you to it… I do agree with you on most of it..genuinely Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kriss Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 Let's get back to proper feedback please or a lot of posts will be deleted. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
akkm Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 agreed Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fredric Drum Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Do you have a save shortly before he escalates his complaint about a lack of first team action despite bring injured? He wasn't still injured, but the season had ended before I had the chance to use him in enough games, and he came to me in June with his complaint (last league game was April 30). I couldn't possibly play him when there were no games. I don't have a save ... Just mentioning it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Svenc Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 However, what I really don't understand is how is it possible that teams can leave so many players upfield, oblivious of the defensive phase, and still not concede 2-3 goals per match. I think they often do. Teams such as Sampdoria or Genua are often amongst the sides who score a lot but also concede a lot. As for such tactics in general and human users, there are typically paired with high pressing and generally attacking game. By trying to win the ball high up the pitch you'd naturally soften the impact of getting pinned back oftenly in your half with a third of players not bothering to cover space and men. In general, I'm starting to agree with all the observations that concluded the game would be biased towards attacking play. During my first proper save, setting up a 4-1-4-1 basic formation we did reasonably well playing defensively, not conceding in more than 40% prior the winter break. However, thereafter, things started to get awry again, in between January and Autumn 2015 there had been but a couple of matches in which we managed to keep a clean sheet. And I started to attribute that prior series to little more than luck. It is incredibly risky to speculate on 1 or two goals being enough. During the last patch I got a string of consecutive 0-0s, but that was done by playing keep-ball all game. Admittedly I did bring in David James on a free agent, who whilst being a perfectly viable option still for my German fourth tier side even at 45, greeted spectators with this in the first minute on his first day on duty. [video=youtube;rhxRCXh6ArY]rhxRCXh6ArY It is more risky than picking the weakest team by a mile in the competition and giving hell about balanced tactics and just attack from the go until the final whistle's blown. Or rather: It's certainly far easier to turn, pardon the players, crap squads into goal scoring machines by pushing men up in numbers than it is turning decent sides teams into ones that concede very few, at least from my experience (which could be down to me too). Still it is super easy to score goals, it is however much harder to try the opposite, and given that football is a low scoring sports and space is something teams have to fight for, that doesn't ring quite right. Prior to this I turned Hertha into German Cup winners with the exact same, finishing 7th in the Bundesliga and getting the overachievement achievement via Steam. (For the record: Tactics like these aren't advisable, as matches with incredibly many shots and random outcomes will be the norm. Similar are actually being shared on various fan sites, so stay the hell away from download tactics unless you understand what they are encouraging. Don't try this at home.) The opposite of the above would picking a defensive tactics, a formation that suits it and encouraging it to drop even deeper than it would by default. But if you do that, you'll be hammered. Fluke goals and space are there no matter what, be it from attacking throw-ins, crosses, inch perfect passes in between the centre backs... it must be a hell of a balancing job though, and I appreciate that. Defending on FM already overly relies on successfull tacklings, that is why there are so hugely many of them. However, cranking those up thus can not be the solution to offset off the ball positioning, passing accuracy, shooting decision making and similar, which from my experience are vastly improved, even when under pressure and closed down. Additionially the physics are far less predictable. Players like Hazard cut through defenses like the hot knife through butter, and I frequently saw the trio of Lewandowski, Müller and Robben outright toying against packed defenses even completely isolated and on their own. Caring about robust defenses, I don't think I'm going to be super best friends with this ME iteration though. I enjoyed surviving CL group stages with minnows in prior iterations, as it was possible to claim the right of the weak and with a little luck score the one crucial goal from the few shots we get, which could be enough. I don't think it is quite as consistently possible here though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyt365 Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Italian tv money seems broken. I won 2 league titles and european cup and never got more than 40m tv money in serie a over 8 seasons at parma. Them move to Milan who have struggled for years, and they get 80m v money? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunstrikuuu Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 If you look at the reputation rankings, were you ahead of Milan? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcb1996 Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 The transfer window finishes on 31st October. And why FM transfer update out in March? ( Last two year 28 February) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar2010 Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Italian tv money seems broken. I won 2 league titles and european cup and never got more than 40m tv money in serie a over 8 seasons at parma. Them move to Milan who have struggled for years, and they get 80m v money? Its not broken, its simply the way the money gets divided in Italy. This is a summary taken from another website: In Serie A, their much smaller pot of money is divided in a somewhat unusual (critics would argue, wholly biased) way: 40% is divided equally between the 20 teams. 30% is divided between the clubs based on population (5% based on the population of the city in which the team is based and 25% based on their average home attendance) 30% is awarded to teams based on performances. 5% depending on the last season, 15% on the last five years and 10% based on results from 1946 up to the sixth season before the current one. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar2010 Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 The transfer window finishes on 31st October. And why FM transfer update out in March? ( Last two year 28 February) No, the summer transfer window closes late August/early September and then the game is released. The winter transfer window closes end of January (Feb in Russia) and then you get the update patch. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunstrikuuu Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Isn't 31 October the free transfer registration deadline? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcb1996 Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 The transfer window finishes on 31st October. And why FM transfer update out in March? ( Last two year 28 February) Sooooooooorrrrrryyyy 31st January of course. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deego619 Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Hey everyone, I usually buy FM at this time of year to avoid the release issues. I'm just wondering if the upgrade from the 2014 version is currently worth the money. I don't mind small issues but if there's anything that makes the game remotely unplayable it will stop me from upgrading for the time being. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
greco Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 after roughly 10 seasons: way too easy. The ai seems ******** or i might have stumbled upon a magical 4-4-2. This reputation system is ruining the game. I think the Ai is stupid because it judges many of its decisions , based on reputation. Probably why the ai cant build a squad and buys several players and dont use them. In relation to squadbuilding and maintaining the same quality of competetion, well its just - in the long run - non existent and sadly has been so for years. When the "original cast members" are close to gone, the quality of competetion drops. Especially if you are playing in second tier leagues like holland, denmark or portugal. These diseases have been in the game for years and they might be hardest to fix, i dont know and frankly i dont care. This is as close to gamebreaking as you can come. I love long careers, building from the ground and up, but thats too easy in the long run. Which brings me to my next point. Fm is awful at representing how hard it is, to be a top team in those mid tier leagues. In general fm is awful at representing the difficulties in managing top clubs. I love the new animations and on thre tactical side i feel, that when i make a change in role, i see a difference. Love the way its set up with the menu bar, although i´d like it if it could be horisontal too. This has been said a million times before, but please stop adding features, which are of significantly less importance, then fixing the above mentioned things. I know the game wont reach perfect, but ai stupidity in regards to transfers and squadbuilding has been complained about for years. Rightly so i´ll add, these numbers are omade up , but it feels like when one feature has reached 50% of perfect, they start a new feature and this reaches 50 and wash, rinse and repeat. Having flawed features, which havent been fixed and hew features which presents new flaws, i drives my head. In fantasy land, maybe, just maybe a feature could reach 75% of perfection, before a new feature is added. Fix the core issues, the game has reached a level and a size, where this is an area that needs more attention, much more then other areas. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianscousemac Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Fix the core issues, the game has reached a leveland a size, where this is an area that needs more attention then other areas. Could not agree more. Stop adding new features and concentrate on core issues and better documentation to enable us to understand the game more. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
themadsheep2001 Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Could not agree more. Stop adding new features and concentrate on core issues and better documentation to enable us to understand the game more. Or, do what they do now, and have different teams doing both. Because there are those who might just like new features as the 47 page wishlist thread suggests, and SI will have ideas of their own and might just want to implement them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davey Boy Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 I don't know if this has been brought up before but the ref who is supposed to be behind the goal is clearly not. I don't know if it's a bug or a graphics issue Left handside of the three pictures Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
themadsheep2001 Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Davey Boy, if you can upload that match PKM, they can have a look at it. Cheers Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davey Boy Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Davey Boy, if you can upload that match PKM, they can have a look at it. Cheers Hi, sorry im not going anywhere near Filezilla again last time i did i got a bad virus on my computer. I'm never touching that again. perhaps others have a similar bug and can do that for you. Sorry Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lawlore Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Open an Explorer window, as though you're browsing your computer's files. Change the directory to: ftp://ftp.sigames.com/ Use this info when it asks in the popup: Username: ftp-public Password: public Drag and drop the PKM from your computer to the PKM folder in the FTP folder. Boom, uploaded by FTP. I have no idea why SI recommend Filezilla. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davey Boy Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Possibly another bug, my chief scout just asked me if you could stop scouting the English U/18's league (im playing in the EPL). I mean come on this is where you find young british/irish stars of the future!!! and he wan't to stop scouting the U18's thats laughable. Granted none might be coming through now but that doesn't mean they won't in the future. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
greco Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Or, do what they do now, and have different teams doing both. Because there are those who might just like new features as the 47 page wishlist thread suggests, and SI will have ideas of their own and might just want to implement them. nobody is saying new features arent welcome, but simply stating that the game is so big and has reached a level, where the core should recieve some extra attention. The Ai and the well known stuff which relates to that, has been an issue for several years. I dont know how si are set up, and frankly its none of my business really. They can run their shop however they may please, im simply voicing my opinion. I can not speak about their procedures, asi have no knowledge, i can only speak about their product. A product which have grown in size, but maintained the same issues. Year after year, squadbuilding/transfers are a wreck, so something is not working. The procedure you are trying to defend, has - for several years - not worked properly, but as a mod. i guess you have to say so. Thats how this "game" works. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
themadsheep2001 Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 nobody is saying new features arent welcome, but simply stating that the game is so big and has reached a level, where the core should recieve some extra attention. The Ai and the well known stuff which relates to that, has been an issue for several years. I dont know how si are set up, and frankly its none of my business really. They can run their shop however they may please, im simply voicing my opinion. I can not speak about their procedures, asi have no knowledge, i can only speak about their product. A product which have grown in size, but maintained the same issues.Year after year, squadbuilding/transfers are a wreck, so something is not working. The procedure you are trying to defend, has - for several years - not worked properly, but as a mod. i guess you have to say so. Thats how this "game" works. Let's get this part out the way first: To say I have to say this because I'm a moderator is both nonsense and incorrect, it's extremely tedious when people say that because their view isn't supported. Let's not waste our time with incorrect assumptions about my views As you say yourself you don't even know how the procedure works. Secondly they always work on the AI and its always one of their top tasks and its improved over the years, however its neither an easy task nor a short one, nor are they likely to be able to keep up with a human player, who have the advantage of being human. It's a constant uphill battle. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Georgik Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 nobody is saying new features arent welcome, but simply stating that the game is so big and has reached a level, where the core should recieve some extra attention. The Ai and the well known stuff which relates to that, has been an issue for several years. I dont know how si are set up, and frankly its none of my business really. They can run their shop however they may please, im simply voicing my opinion. I can not speak about their procedures, asi have no knowledge, i can only speak about their product. A product which have grown in size, but maintained the same issues.Year after year, squadbuilding/transfers are a wreck, so something is not working. The procedure you are trying to defend, has - for several years - not worked properly, but as a mod. i guess you have to say so. Thats how this "game" works. it seems that they rely more on the graphic aspect of the game than it's engine ... i'd rather scrap the 3d view for a greatly improved ai mechanics, match engine, transfer system, player interaction etc. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
themadsheep2001 Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 it seems that they rely more on the graphic aspect of the game than it's engine ... i'd rather scrap the 3d view for a greatly improved ai mechanics, match engine, transfer system, player interaction etc. Again, incorrect. Separate teams work on each area. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Georgik Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Again, incorrect. Separate teams work on each area. ah my bad then Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Svenc Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 End of the season (no transfers, actually in terms of direct involvement no anything, as with Hertha finishing 7th and winning the Cup previously). Similar Burnley campaign. Bearing in mind that this is about the most unbalanced and risky you can go over 90 minutes in full (no additional player instructions atop the exposing duty/structuring, but encouraging a high pressing game), and that two of these are the worst sides in their league by far, I don't think it's a surprise that most tend to favor hugely aggressive attacking tactics in any kind of way. Defenses tend to get overwhelmed too easily, even if they have man advantage, and apparently despite individual setbacks you can succeed in simply overloading final thirds. Hugely many runs from deep=good luck defending them. What might factor into this that even the cheapest teams can be turned into a threat in front of goal is also that technical attributes in isolation, such as first touch, passing and technique are still very under weighted in the calculations, in terms of simple ball retention ability anyhow (that is, keeping the ball over short distances). If you want to test this, go into the editor and give every single Bayern player low single digit values in each of those and simulate a season on full match details. 1) the side won't underperform and 2) will have multiple of the best passers in the league still. The latter has always been the case, at least so far. That sounds a little geeky an experiment, but part of the attraction of FM to me is that it is as much of a management game as it is a simulation of a virtual (football) world, one that doesn't care if you actually participate an iota, a sandbox with managers and footballers rather than criminals and fast cars. As such most such experiments yielded reasonable results (which is a compliment, however this wasn't one of them). What made it harder to play keep-ball with lowlier teams was the tendency of mentally weak players to feel pressure more often when closed down, or to make bad decisions, which lead to the booting of the ball. Playing in the fourth tier now, this doesn't happen as hugely often either even when watching matches in full. Again, can it be that the effect of players getting closed down has been tuned down? One of my personal bug bears in my regular fourth tier save thus were the goals that came off perfect first touch passing sequences all the way into tightly crowded boxes, which are all very likely to happen in particular after attacking throw ins, when the attacking side has most of its players parked in and around the area and ready in attacking position to engage in such a sequence, and I generally had matches in which 3/4 of all goals came from throw-ins, does SI track statistics for that? Players being closed down at the edge of the area by multiple players, still staying perfectly calm and laying the ball off to his colleagues that by now naturally are wihtout markers, etc. That naturally goes both ways, and perception might skew the truth in behind the personal assessment, however naturally if you sit deep after going up rather than attacking further, you will concede more of such situations and become a little extra suspicious. To put it short: I still don't think that the entire match action has ever been this biased towards attacking tactics. As argued, both claiming the right of the weak as well as dominating opposition was equally viable, and for a cracking experience look no further than Ackter's Catenaccio thread. http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/374841-To-Catenaccio-and-BEYOND! He was the supposedly cheating AI, the personal nemesis of every single human player who had ever focused on nothing but dominating a few (shot) statistics. And he didn't concede a bloody thing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunstrikuuu Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 With Serge Gnabry and Jack Wilshere having a falling out, my streak of started-then-failed tutoring attempts has reached 10. I don't think I'll be using this feature until a patch changes something about it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dagenham_Dave Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 With Serge Gnabry and Jack Wilshere having a falling out, I generally tend to pick a tutor who is more than three years older than the tutee. It may be that in your other attempts, the players simply weren't suited either. I've got about a 50% hit rate on my save with tutoring at the moment. I do wish you weren't restricted to the players they recommend though. Unless there's another way to do it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunstrikuuu Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 I agree that it's a little silly that Wilshere can tutor Gnabry; they're quite close in age. But there's always been a bright line between tutor-age and pupil-age. I've had the same thing happen with lots of other players, so I don't think it's age-related. In the future, I'd kinda like to see that tutoring age thing changed a little. I don't see any reason a 21 year old couldn't tutor a sixteen year old, for example. Maybe make it a five year sliding scale that ends at a maximum pupil age of 25, or something similar. Make it a little more dynamic than people on this side of the line are one thing and people on the other are another. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordAEM Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 Okay so the game is roughly 4 months old, and i thought it to be a good time to look how things have improved / are still broke. This to help SI see what WE (the gamers) really want to see improved or things that we really like since previous editions. Things that are good: - I like the idea of finishing training courses to get your training licenses. Although it didnt work at the start it is working now and i think it adds an extra dimension. - The scouting system. Although a little rough to get into, once familiar with it, it's easy to use. Overall i think the game has improved a lot compared to at least FM13 and FM14. The biggest flaw still has to be the ME though. And in all honesty i think only 1 big issue has to be resolved, Correct me if im wrong and that is: - PLAYER/GK MOVEMENT. Yes FM13 and FM14 had issues with movement, but this year this is 1 of the things that DID NOT get any improvements, I even think in this area the game went 5 steps back. GKs not being able to hold on to balls from shots. I've been a GK myself for a recreational team, but NEVER have i moved to the right when someone with the ball came to my near post. You move out and cover the short angle and make the shot to the far post as hard as possible. Defenders at Premiership level don't pass the ball too slow to the GK and if they do, the GK will MOVE towards the ball. Strikers don't wait till their defender catches up to them to shoot, especially not when they are in the box. When a striker has a shot in the box he takes it. Random events in games i've seen. Players moving away from the ball instead of moving towards the ball when attacking. Players going towards the ball, with another player closer to the ball but the 2nd player wont touch the ball cause the first player has to come all the way back to pick the ball up. End of game every player has at least SOME urgency to get to the other side when they are behind. Why not in this game. In this game you start passing the ball around 30 times untill the whistle blows. That's perfectly fine when your ahead, but when your down by 1 goal you want them to give it their all and try to score. I think that for me sums it up pretty well. I do know that this year come october/november i won't be buying the game in pre-purchase. I will be patiently waiting. Why??? Well look at it this way, we have a game 4 months after release and still it's NOT FINISHED. Yeah the game is better then years before, but the game is also worse then years before. Why do we play it? Because i have to be honest their is no better alternative YET. FM will always have a following, but i think in the last few years it did become thinner. Not just because the game has flaws, but mostly because SI thinks they can release a product in October/November, that 9 out of 10 times is ready in MARCH the next year. Maybe SI should just be smart and maybe SKIP a year to figure out what the big issue in the ME is. Cause like they say it is a rough area of the game to play around with. TAKE YOUR TIME to figure out the flaws and find a way to get the movement right. Don't be afraid you will loose a big part of your community, by know you should have realized that the players will come back. As long as they get what they are paying for. Peace out, LordAEM Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raniel3 Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 End of the season (no transfers, actually in terms of direct involvement no anything, as with Hertha finishing 7th and winning the Cup previously). Similar Burnley campaign. Bearing in mind that this is about the most unbalanced and risky you can go over 90 minutes in full (no additional player instructions atop the exposing duty/structuring, but encouraging a high pressing game), and that two of these are the worst sides in their league by far, I don't think it's a surprise that most tend to favor hugely aggressive attacking tactics in any kind of way. Defenses tend to get overwhelmed too easily, even if they have man advantage, and apparently despite individual setbacks you can succeed in simply overloading final thirds. Hugely many runs from deep=good luck defending them. What might factor into this that even the cheapest teams can be turned into a threat in front of goal is also that technical attributes in isolation, such as first touch, passing and technique are still very under weighted in the calculations, in terms of simple ball retention ability anyhow (that is, keeping the ball over short distances). If you want to test this, go into the editor and give every single Bayern player low single digit values in each of those and simulate a season on full match details. 1) the side won't underperform and 2) will have multiple of the best passers in the league still. The latter has always been the case, at least so far. That sounds a little geeky an experiment, but part of the attraction of FM to me is that it is as much of a management game as it is a simulation of a virtual (football) world, one that doesn't care if you actually participate an iota, a sandbox with managers and footballers rather than criminals and fast cars. As such most such experiments yielded reasonable results (which is a compliment, however this wasn't one of them). What made it harder to play keep-ball with lowlier teams was the tendency of mentally weak players to feel pressure more often when closed down, or to make bad decisions, which lead to the booting of the ball. Playing in the fourth tier now, this doesn't happen as hugely often either even when watching matches in full. Again, can it be that the effect of players getting closed down has been tuned down? One of my personal bug bears in my regular fourth tier save thus were the goals that came off perfect first touch passing sequences all the way into tightly crowded boxes, which are all very likely to happen in particular after attacking throw ins, when the attacking side has most of its players parked in and around the area and ready in attacking position to engage in such a sequence, and I generally had matches in which 3/4 of all goals came from throw-ins, does SI track statistics for that? Players being closed down at the edge of the area by multiple players, still staying perfectly calm and laying the ball off to his colleagues that by now naturally are wihtout markers, etc. That naturally goes both ways, and perception might skew the truth in behind the personal assessment, however naturally if you sit deep after going up rather than attacking further, you will concede more of such situations and become a little extra suspicious. To put it short: I still don't think that the entire match action has ever been this biased towards attacking tactics. As argued, both claiming the right of the weak as well as dominating opposition was equally viable, and for a cracking experience look no further than Ackter's Catenaccio thread. http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/374841-To-Catenaccio-and-BEYOND! He was the supposedly cheating AI, the personal nemesis of every single human player who had ever focused on nothing but dominating a few (shot) statistics. And he didn't concede a bloody thing. Excellent post again, one more and you have 2,000 EDIT: Did you post that in the bug forums, too? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunstrikuuu Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 LordAEM, here's the thing though. I agree with a decent bit of what you've said. But the number of big releases every year that are finished and bug-free at launch can be numbered on one hand with fingers left over. That's why so many companies are going to early access / paid beta / slow rollout releases. That's not really an option for SI. Meanwhile you get games like Sim City, Halo: Master Chief Collection and Assassin's Creed: Unity that are actually unplayable at launch. Not frustrating to play or feel unfinished or unpolished like FM 2014 or 2015, but actually nonfunctional. Sim City's servers were a joke and its groundbreaking new engine was a single line of code that could be commented out with no problems. Halo's multiplayer has required so many patches that both 343 Games and Microsoft have issued official apologies, and Microsoft has given away XBox Live Gold credits and Halo ODST to people who bought the game. Assassin's Creed also drew an official apology, and Ubisoft pulled sales of the Gold Edition and the season DLC pass. They also gave customers their choice of free games in exchange for those same customers agreeing not to sue. So maintain a bit of perspective. As frustrating as FM's issues can be at times, the fact that it's a fully realized, functional game elevates it over a lot of major releases. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordAEM Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 Sun i agree. Been there done that (ESO launch, and several other MMOs). Like i said the game is better then the last 2 releases, but the main thing that bothers me year after year is player movement. It's just not realistic. SI can do early access, in the form of their demo. Every year SI has had a Demo out before the game launched. This year there wasn't. Now i don't know the reason, but one can speculate that maybe SI wasn't ready. The other thing is the games you mention aren't a continuous release (they don't have a game come out each year around the same time). Player movement has been the 1 big issue in the last 3 releases. That's 3 years of investigating. Even in their video's SI was gloating about their GKs for this edition, but let's face it this year the GKs are worse then any previous edition of FM. I love the game, but at a given point you just want to tell SI what is lacking, because you see it every single game. I've got more hours in this game then in any previous edition so that tells you enough. I like the game, but at the same time i hate how players move around the pitch. Appreciate your input though Sun. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kriss Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 I'm curious as to why people feel the need to use offensive/insulting/aggressive terminology when all we're asking for is constructive feedback so the game can be improved. :confused: SI listen to reasoned discussion, anything else makes them stop reading the whole forum. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Äktsjon Männ Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 The opposite of the above would picking a defensive tactics, a formation that suits it and encouraging it to drop even deeper than it would by default. But if you do that, you'll be hammered. Fluke goals and space are there no matter what, be it from attacking throw-ins, crosses, inch perfect passes in between the centre backs... it must be a hell of a balancing job though, and I appreciate that. Defending on FM already overly relies on successfull tacklings, that is why there are so hugely many of them. However, cranking those up thus can not be the solution to offset off the ball positioning, passing accuracy, shooting decision making and similar, which from my experience are vastly improved, even when under pressure and closed down. Additionially the physics are far less predictable. Players like Hazard cut through defenses like the hot knife through butter, and I frequently saw the trio of Lewandowski, Müller and Robben outright toying against packed defenses even completely isolated and on their own. Caring about robust defenses, I don't think I'm going to be super best friends with this ME iteration though. I enjoyed surviving CL group stages with minnows in prior iterations, as it was possible to claim the right of the weak and with a little luck score the one crucial goal from the few shots we get, which could be enough. I don't think it is quite as consistently possible here though. Aren't you making the mistake of equating defensive tactics with sitting deep and giving up space? Being a consistently good defensive team has historically always required a very well drilled and carefully planned strategy of pressing and disruption. The problem with a few previous versions has been that individual quality too often failed to beat a robust deep unit sitting right in front of their goal which made standing off and conceding space an attractive prospect from a defensive point of view. I haven't played against the Hazards and Robbens in FM15 yet myself, but them being able to beat passive defenses through individual quality sounds just about right to me. My personal approach to FM has always been defense first. As said, I haven't played the top level teams in FM15 so my experience is limited to a range of tiers below them. But so far I've really enjoyed how well I can set my team up defensively on all the levels I have played at. This is my current season in the Hungarian second divison: Granted, achieving that requires keeping more than 55% possession on average, but possession in my view is the main defensive tool anyway. For me this is close to as good as it gets defensively. However I'd still expect individual quality to beat that approach more often when moving up to a top level. That would only make sense. Do you feel there are issues with defensive logic in the ME? Because I can't see it. All I see is AI unable to cope with the level of tactical flexibility. The AI teams let user teams overwhelm them with attacking tactics because they don't know how to set up defensively. Cramming everybody in their own box isn't a good enough strategy anymore and going all out attack back at them is only going to end in a frantic end to end stuff where the user will have an upper hand in most instances. It's going to be a tough balancing act but I do feel the focus has to be on AI tactics instead of ME mechanics. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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