England - Euro 2016 Thread

[Baptista_8]

That bit did make me laugh. Ashley Cole played approximately 5 games in the second half of the 2013/14 season and then was essentially out of football 6 months after the World Cup. Anyone who thinks he could have helped England were remembering him as he was at his best, not at that point.

Yet still better defensively than Baines

[themadsheep2001]

4-2-3-1

butland

clyne

stones

smalling

shaw(if fit)

henderson

alli

walcott

barkley

sterling

kane

thats my XI for first game ...young/no fear/ bags pace go for it will woy have guts to do that in a comp though

Christ, that would get ripped apart.

[Roy Race 9]

its a game of opinions mate, its an attacking young team love to see that

put your XI up

ps do you honestly think we have a chance of winning it??

so give it a go might surprise us

[Nikos]

Yet still better defensively than Baines

In a defensive rearguard maybe, but he wasn't able to get up and down the pitch anymore and he wouldn't have been able to play 3 games in a week.

[themadsheep2001]

its a game of opinions mate, its an attacking young team love to see that

put your XI up

ps do you honestly think we have a chance of winning it??

so give it a go might surprise us

No idea about winning, but i'd like us to build a side that can do as well as it can, and play some good football. It doesn't mean being hapazard in selection. Isn't the aim to actually try and build a side?

Hart (no idea why you have gone for Butland tbh, Hart clearly a superior keeper)

Clyne

Smalling

Stones (needs to get his form together, talented but needs someone organising him)

Bertrand (Shaw needs to be back in March to stand a chance)

Dier/Carrick (someone needs to be able to actually protect the back 4 cannot underestimate the importance of this, though England seem to time and again, to their detriment)

Henderson/Milner (either will do, tactically aware link man between attack and defence, keep it simple but constantly ticking over, will be disciplined enough to get back to the holding midfielder if needed)

Alli (this is 4-3-3, but could push him into 4-2-3-1 knowing he'd have the defensive discipline to go with the attack)

Walcott/Chamberlin

Sterling

Kane

[Roy Race 9]

like the look of that too(only 2 different players from mine:D) just like butland he is class hart is too but I just have a feeling there is more of a mistake in him so give the gloved to the young man

I will stick to mine but make it a 4-2-3-1/4-3-3 with barkley dropping back deeper

henderson will do dm job alli has energy to do it all barkley the skills to release harry and 2 wide men

I know we always get carried away, but dont expect us to win it...but with the handbrake off we can do so major damage love to see us play germany in final would be a cracker

[themadsheep2001]

like the look of that too(only 2 different players from mine:D) just like butland he is class hart is too but I just have a feeling there is more of a mistake in him so give the gloved to the young man

I will stick to mine but make it a 4-2-3-1/4-3-3 with barkley dropping back deeper

henderson will do dm job alli has energy to do it all barkley the skills to release harry and 2 wide men

I know we always get carried away, but dont expect us to win it...but with the handbrake off we can do so major damage love to see us play germany in final would be a cracker

2 players, but in key positions, especially in holding midfield.

Hart is not only considerably better, but also more consistent than Butland. Butland only has age on his side, which is irrelevant here as Hart is 28.

Barkley isnt a) disciplined enough or b) good enough with his attacking decision, although he's looking considerably better this season

None of those three are specialists in anyway in protecting the back 4, we did this in the world cup and got destroyed. I'd like to hope we dont do this again for more attempted Roy of the rovers stuff. There is a reason why Dier/Lucas/Barry do that job. Alli and Barkley are actually playing as 10s right now as well.

[Roy Race 9]

yep alli/barkley are, but both are more than capable of doing a different job in middle think modern game has become obsessed with labeling players as this and that... players such as those two can/should be able do a job anywhere in the middle

henderson can do a holding job and dont see need for 2 dm's thats a personal thing otherwise we end up with Utd footy

lets exploit the attacking options we have looking forward to this comp

[themadsheep2001]

yep alli/barkley are, but both are more than capable of doing a different job in middle think modern game has become obsessed with labeling players as this and that... players such as those two can/should be able do a job anywhere in the middle

henderson can do a holding job and dont see need for 2 dm's thats a personal thing otherwise we end up with Utd footy

lets exploit the attacking options we have looking forward to this comp

You can't exploit your attacking options if you can't even secure the ball. You need to have both. Tottenham are playing good football with their attacking players (for example), because they can win back, protect and maintain possession.

Barkley definitely isn't capable of being a consistent CM, though potentially Alli is. And Henderson isn't a holding player, Watch him at Liverpool, he gets back to help out, but Lucas is the one sit and protects. Henderson links Lucas with the attacking band

Saying they can and should doesn't work when one of them definitely can't and does not (Barkley)... it's not about labelling, it's watching Barkley and realising he is a risky 10, and definitely not a CM

[Roy Race 9]

well there you go as I said its a game of opinions and we all have our own or should have otherwise we are just automatons or sycophants

personally I think the DM is overrated in the modern era, before long we will be back to 4-4-2 (we are seeing it slowly) with 2 central bods taking it in turns to do the job or both being box to box....you never know it might just bring some entertainment back and not the game being a chess match

and in the modern game when there usually is only 1 up top I would expect my 2 CD's to cope with that

[MichaelBrown]

Alli and Barkley are actually playing as 10s right now as well.

Was reading an article on fourfourtwo and they highlighted how Alli is quite limited when he's playing as a 10 in the Spurs side. Instead, he's better as a CM going into the box late and attacking the ball from deep.

@ Kingrobbo - The DM (as in, someone who sits back, recycles possession and breaks up play) is one of the most important positions in the game today and I'd say that the majority of sides have one or two players who're capable of doing this. Neither Henderson or Alli do this.

[themadsheep2001]

Was reading an article on fourfourtwo and they highlighted how Alli is quite limited when he's playing as a 10 in the Spurs side. Instead, he's better as a CM going into the box late and attacking the ball from deep.

@ Kingrobbo - The DM (as in, someone who sits back, recycles possession and breaks up play) is one of the most important positions in the game today and I'd say that the majority of sides have one or two players who're capable of doing this. Neither Henderson or Alli do this.

I'll have a look out for that. I've got him pencilled as the most attacking CM in a 4-3-3.

And on the DM, we've been smashed there in recent tournaments by not looking after it properly. Madness to think we can get away with again. As you say, is hugely important.

[Nikos]

In time Barkley will be able to play central midfield, but I think defensively he would struggle as one of the two sitting midfielders. His attitude to defending is basically standing in front of the person with the ball, if they call his bluff and dribble around him in a reasonably wide arc, he will let them.

Likewise, I don't trust Henderson in a holding role. He needs someone behind him.

We don't have any full backs who are better at defending than attacking, so let them attack. Play positionally disciplined central midfielders and realise you don't need out and out wide players, so the full backs have space to overlap and cover if we lose the ball.

[Gizmo7]

Eric Dier has to start for us, alongside either Henderson or Carrick. Then we can experiment a bit with our #10, either Ali or Barkley, swaying with the idea of Ali being there as he's already got a great understanding with Dier behind him. Then upfront it will, unfortunately, be Rooney starting, but I think it should be Kane up there, with Sterling and possibly Theo on the other wing (have we really got no one better?).

Hart; Clyne, Smalling, Stones, Bertrand; Dier, Henderson; Sterling, Alli, Walcott; Kane.

Defence could be a bit shakey there, but that looks like a pretty solid team.

[Wiggins Top Boys]

too many mentions for Walcott and Carrick

[Astafjevs]

Who else is there for a 4-3-3 out wide? Sturridge would usually be in the XI, but probably won't make it at his current rate. Ditto Welbeck.

So you're left with Walcott, playing a striker out there like Vardy or Rooney, or using Milner. The latter is probably a decent option against good teams.

[MichaelBrown]

I'll have a look out for that. I've got him pencilled as the most attacking CM in a 4-3-3.

And on the DM, we've been smashed there in recent tournaments by not looking after it properly. Madness to think we can get away with again. As you say, is hugely important.

You only have to look at the failed experiment (that a lot of this forum bought into) at the last WC to see that a proper DM is absolutely necessary.

Also, here's the article about Alli, although it doesn't focus solely on him.

http://www.fourfourtwo.com/features/deep-dele-deadly-harry-5-lessons-palace-1-3-spurs#:RfhdusCZLO_JAA

and the writing if you can't be bothered to read through the rest:

As per Tottenham’s previous league game, a 4-1 victory at home to Sunderland, Dele Alli began in a more attacking role – in line with Christian Eriksen and Son Hueng-Min, just behind Harry Kane. Again, as per Sunderland, his impact from this position was muted.

The intricate passing game of Kane, Son and Eriksen just doesn’t fit with Alli’s comparatively all-action approach. Frequently, the young Englishman found his presence ignored as his fellow attackers worked triangles between themselves. Alli’s positioning, more centred on bursting forward (with ball or without) just doesn’t fit comfortably with this level of intricacy.

Everything changed in the 56th minute, however. At 1-0 down, Mauricio Pochettino replaced Eric Dier with Nacer Chadli; the incoming Belgian adopted an advanced position alongside Son and Eriksen, Alli dropping back to partner Mousa Dembele in the middle of the field.

With plenty of space now in front of him, Alli could play his natural game of arriving late in and around the box, catching defenders off-guard and working his way into the space created by those intricate runs and passes of his teammates ahead of him.

The highlight of his work came after 84 minutes, a contender for goal of the season in which he juggled the ball before volleying home from outside the box. He also hit the bar before the final whistle.

There's also a bit on Harry Kane:

All three of Spurs’ goals came after 
Harry Kane’s recent goal record is beyond reproach: 12 in his last 14 Premier League games. However, for long periods throughout games it is difficult to see what value he is adding to his team.

If you’d never watched Spurs before, you certainly wouldn’t consider Kane to be a valuable asset to the club off the back of his first-half display. Not only was he struggling to find positions that would allow his teammates to feed him with worthwhile passes, but what he did when he got the ball was distinctly underwhelming.

That all changed in the second half, helped no end by the energy provided by Alli when the midfielder was moved deeper into midfield. Suddenly, now a goal down with backs against the wall, Kane came to life. His positioning improved, as did his passes. For sure, the added problem of Alli driving forward from deep threw Palace’s defence into a panic. That helped create space within which Kane could operate.

In fact, Kane’s performances represent an apt microcosm of Spurs in general. Pochettino’s side have gained 14 points after going behind in games this season, more than any other team in the league. This never-say-die attitude has resulted in an unbeaten run of 10 Premier League away games, something that hasn’t happened for Spurs since 1995.

[Coulthard's Jaw]

Only role Walcott should have in the side is central striker, simply not good enough out wide.

[ajw10]

Only role Walcott should have in the side is central striker' date=' simply not good enough out wide.[/quote']

He's more than good enough wide right, especially considering England's current options. Different ball game obviously if Welbeck is available.

[Razzler]

Welbeck available, that's funny

[Bliss Seeker]

Roy needs start finding a system to play 2 forwards with Rooney and Kane upfront and Sterling behind is the way to go. Doesn't really matters who's behind them as they're all much the muchness, although I'd like Wilshere to get fit and do what he's supposed to. Fragile git. Alli looks the real deal though, looks like a proper prospect.

After the tournament we need to start weening the team off Rooney and focusing on Kane, Sterling and Barkley (he's going to explode at some point soon, watch this space). Sturridge, who is genuine class should be considered but he's never fit and pulls a sickie whenever he stubs his toe.

Barkley and Wallcott will be a couple of fantastic options to come on from the bench in the summer.

Actually think we're on the cusp of something, not this year but in 2 years time we have potentially a brilliant team coming through. Just hope Rooney does a Shearer and retires from International footy this summer.

[STaphouse]

I agree with Bliss in the fact that a narrow 4-1-2-1-2 formation could be better for us.

I think Shaw being fit will be vital to a formation like this though. I can't see Baines having the energy to bomb up and down the left flank for 90 minutes.

It would solve our problem of lack of quality wingers though.

[ajw10]

I disagree. England don't have the right back required and they don't have the number 10. Also they lack the DM (Dier hasn't played any international football). Furthermore, you're not getting the best out of Sterling and Wilshere, who are England's best outfield players.

[MichaelBrown]

If Welbeck is fit, then a 4-3-3 is the better formation as, like AJ said, we lack the real quality we'd need on the wings. I'm saying that as a big fan of Clyne as well.

Dier not playing any football doesn't mean a great deal. He's our best outright DM by far, having the season of his life.

The main problem will be, of course, Rooney. He shouldn't be anywhere near the side so it almost feels like England has to accommodate him just so he can have his ''last tournament'' or ''lead by example/experience/desire/passion'' etc.

[Bliss Seeker]

I disagree. England don't have the right back required and they don't have the number 10. Also they lack the DM (Dier hasn't played any international football). Furthermore, you're not getting the best out of Sterling and Wilshere, who are England's best outfield players.

You don't need world class players in every position, no international team has that. Clyne is good enough and Walker, even though I can't stand him, is a starting right back for a title challenging team who's going to be playing regular Champions league football next season. That's good enough.

We haven't had a proper DM since Hargreaves (?). Other than Barry, or Cattermole I can't think of any other English player who even plays there regularly for their clubs. All eggs in the Dier shaped basket, and we'll see if he can handle it. He's been fantastic this season and deserves a run if we're playing a disciplined DM.

If Welbeck is fit, then a 4-3-3 is the better formation as, like AJ said, we lack the real quality we'd need on the wings. I'm saying that as a big fan of Clyne as well.

Dier not playing any football doesn't mean a great deal. He's our best outright DM by far, having the season of his life.

The main problem will be, of course, Rooney. He shouldn't be anywhere near the side so it almost feels like England has to accommodate him just so he can have his ''last tournament'' or ''lead by example/experience/desire/passion'' etc.

Rooney once again was voted the England player of the season by the fans. He's not the problem and England aren't accommodating him, he's there by merit and deserves to be there.

[Wiggins Top Boys]

I thought we looked pretty good in the 41212 when we played it, even with Wilshire as the DM. I think regardless the squad seems to have the ability and is flexible enough to play in a few different formations. All the pundits and fans are going to be suggestion different things and they'll all have their advantages and disadvantages. I won't complain as long as Carrick isnt close and Walcott can stay on the bench

[Bliss Seeker]

I thought Carrick died in 2013?

Has he even played in the last 3 years?

[ajw10]

You don't need world class players in every position, no international team has that. Clyne is good enough and Walker, even though I can't stand him, is a starting right back for a title challenging team who's going to be playing regular Champions league football next season. That's good enough.

We haven't had a proper DM since Hargreaves (?). Other than Barry, or Cattermole I can't think of any other English player who even plays there regularly for their clubs. All eggs in the Dier shaped basket, and we'll see if he can handle it. He's been fantastic this season and deserves a run if we're playing a disciplined DM.

Rooney once again was voted the England player of the season by the fans. He's not the problem and England aren't accommodating him, he's there by merit and deserves to be there.

show me where I said that

[MichaelBrown]

Rooney once again was voted the England player of the season by the fans. He's not the problem and England aren't accommodating him, he's there by merit and deserves to be there.

First bit is irrelevant. Second, have you seen him this year? He's a shadow of his former self, he's not on the same level as Kane. He'll simply be a burden on England.

[skybluedave]

Club wise he's been shocking but for England he's been ok. Well he's been comfortable better then his United form. Though still hardly setting the world alight. Played well and scored a nice goal against France in the last game and certainly wasn't a burden. Like most of the England team (including Kane) he had his moments but his are often picked out more, especially with his club form as it is.

Of course there is a case for Kane to start ahead of him, but there is also still a case for Rooney. Personally I'd still have Rooney starting. But if his club form doesn't improve and he looks terrible in these upcoming friendlies then I'll probably be in the 'drop him' camp.

[Astafjevs]

4-3-1-2 would be great for England. You don't even need a 'classic No.10', although it helps if there's one available.

[Astafjevs]

Club wise he's been shocking but for England he's been ok. Well he's been comfortable better then his United form. Though still hardly setting the world alight. Played well and scored a nice goal against France in the last game and certainly wasn't a burden. Like most of the England team he had his moments but his are often picked out more, especially with his club form as it is.

Of course there is a case for Kane to start ahead of him, but there is also still a case for Rooney. Personally I'd still have Rooney starting. But if his club form doesn't improve and he looks terrible in these upcoming friendlies then I'll probably be in the 'drop him' camp.

This is all that matters. I've said it before, but it's hard enough finding players good enough for international football, and even harder to find ones who can then actually play well when they get there. You have to stick by the ones who have done that. Which is why I'd always pick Welbeck if he's fit.

[skybluedave]

This is all that matters. I've said it before, but it's hard enough finding players good enough for international football, and even harder to find ones who can then actually play well when they get there. You have to stick by the ones who have done that. Which is why I'd always pick Welbeck if he's fit.

I agree. Everybody always think the untried option is superior. That so and so will walk in and play like he does for his club straight away. We aren't picking Garth Crook's team of the week here. We need to be building a team.

[MichaelBrown]

But he's been shocking so far. To Astajevs, what would it take to drop Rooney?

[Gizmo7]

it's hard enough finding players good enough for international football, and even harder to find ones who can then actually play well when they get there.

Rooney doesn't play well when he gets there though. How many major international tournaments has he had now? How many has he actually delivered in?

[pearcey_90]

I disagree. England don't have the right back required and they don't have the number 10. Also they lack the DM (Dier hasn't played any international football). Furthermore, you're not getting the best out of Sterling and Wilshere, who are England's best outfield players.

I'd argue some of Sterlings best performances for England and Liverpool before he left was behind 2 strikers. That way he can roam around the attacking area, dribble with the ball and run beyond the 2 strikers, all things he is capable of. To play that position, you don't all need to be a David Silva.

[Vynal Seven]

Speaking of England, Dyke's not gonna seek re-election and we can get rid of Roy if England goes out.

I'm confused, does this mean we're still winning 2022 or not?

[ajw10]

I'd argue some of Sterlings best performances for England and Liverpool before he left was behind 2 strikers. That way he can roam around the attacking area, dribble with the ball and run beyond the 2 strikers, all things he is capable of. To play that position, you don't all need to be a David Silva.

Well for Liverpool he was playing behind two mobile strikers, one of which was the best player in the league. He doesn't have that luxury with England

[Razzler]

Rooney is not going anywhere until some other strikers step up consistently and do the business. Kane is around that level now and if someone like Sturridge was playing week in, week out maybe it would happen

We don't really have the options just yet. I think we can maybe get to a point where Hodgson isn't afraid to take Rooney off at 60 mins, if we can bring on someone that will make a difference. That then becomes replacement starts and Rooney on the bench until there is enough faith that Rooney isn't automatically playing, regardless of form

Atm I don't have too much of an issue with Rooney when he's doing ok but when he's poor we can sometimes be not afraid to bring him off but we need that someone like Kane or Sturridge level when they are on their game. Rooney currently is one of our best players and I think sometimes when we're struggling there's still a feeling he is capable of doing something

I know he's had plenty of chances and plenty of tournaments but so have a lot of them. I don't just want Rooney dropped I want there to be enough quality that it's not even an issue to drop Rooney

Also, to not be afraid to try different systems and give him a rest every now and then or in a specific game to not play him but again, we need the quality coming in

[given1legend]

If Kane doesn't start and Rooney does there is a serious issue. Kane is our best striker and needs to play, no issue with that being alongside Rooney with Vardy as an impact sub with his energy. But if we go with one up top and it's Rooney, it's purely reputations in play.

[Roy Race 9]

rooney will still be captain and old woy seems to stick with his regular players whatever form they are in

so wouldn't expect anything other than injury stopping rooney starting every game

he shouldn't be near the starting XI

[Hazzaj]

We can do **** here and Dyke will not save Roy from the sack.

Why would we want to sack Hodgson in the first place?

Considering the dearth of talent he's had to work with in comparison to Sven, even Capello and particularly McLaren I think he's done quite a respectable job and we'd do well to keep him on for 2018.

[Baptista_8]

If Kane doesn't start and Rooney does there is a serious issue. Kane is our best striker and needs to play, no issue with that being alongside Rooney with Vardy as an impact sub with his energy. But if we go with one up top and it's Rooney, it's purely reputations in play.

He'll probably play Sterling left, Kane up top, and shoe-horn Rooney in on the right, using Vardy and Walcott as impact subs.

[Razzler]

rooney will still be captain and old woy seems to stick with his regular players whatever form they are in

The problem with that is we line up with Vardy or someone and everyone is:

Vardy

Every squad announced we have these LOLs at an apparent unfashionable player who is often in reasonable form yet fans don't want players picked on form

[Razzler]

Can't believe Sturridge hasn't played for England for 560 or 570 something days. Wow

Lallana starts again tonight. Really likes him or last chance to impress? I like him

Vardy wide, chance for him to shine there as an option

[Darren Moores Mum]

Bloody hell. That God Save the Queen was even more of a dirge than usual.

[Vynal Seven]

"Good luck in France, we'll stay at home"

Gotta love the Dutch.

[skybluedave]

This new kit is awful. Not the kit I envisage us lifting the trophy in

[SpillBlood]

In a tourny would that Rose tackle of been a pen? Home kits better than away atleast.

[Vynal Seven]

Another fantastic atmosphere at Wembley tonight.