Football Manager 2018 *Official* Feedback Thread

[pablito15]

7 hours ago, bigmattb28 said:

Can anyone confirm if the lag has been looked at in the new update? The lag between screens for me makes it unplayable! It's not my brand new gaming laptop bought in September as it runs 17 fine, I'm sticking with 17 until the lag issue gets sorted.

Just as bad for me in 18.1.2

5-10 seconds lag doing anything in the squad depth screen is the worst (just one of many areas). I'm on a super computer too pretty much.

[Jonsko]

Is anyone else having a genuine issue with penalties? There are teams in my league (Conference South) that seem to be winning a penalty every other game.

 

I'm playing an online session with a friend and my friend agrees that they seem to be more regular than normal. There are also teams in his league with similar statistics. I know that we're playing at a low standard of football but this is something we do every year (and have done for years). I don't feel the statistics accurately represent a "real life" scenario. 

 

What is even more odd is that it always seems to be pushes or pulls of some kind that give the penalties away (or at least that is what I can see from the animation)

 

Then again, having conceded 4 penalties in the last 2 games, perhaps I'm a little bitter? 

Edited November 20, 2017 by Jonsko

[bababooey]

Trying quite hard to appreciate this release but, overall I'm leaning negative.

The Good:

- Dynamics is a great feature to help get an overview of how your players feed off one another

- The tactics screen is improved greatly from FM17, and I love how much data there is for us to utilize

- The medical center was a smart addition, seems helpful so far

- 3D certainly looks better - but I can also see why many are not thrilled with it overall. Especially w/ the hype pre-release. 

The Bad/Ugly/Frustrating

- Immediately standing out is the UI. It is absolutely disgraceful to consider this game a finished product for sale to the public with how many bugs are present. 

- Adding to the UI issues is the amount of clicks necessary to do simple things / the overall flow of the screens. It takes longer than it should to do some simple, key tasks. These include things like: searching for a player, navigating through staff, checking out training, etc.  

- Adding to the point about excessive clicking...  There's been some "features" implemented that offer nothing to the user but more clicks. The pre-match tactical briefing is a perfect example. Can anyone show that it accomplishes anything? Every time I try to mention something to the team they have zero reaction.  So what's the point?  

- The way matches play out has been a huge let down for me.  In the matches I've played it genuinely feels like ping-pong, or some sort of weird smash and grab thing. Forgive my horrible explanation, but it's really hard to describe this. Football is obviously a game with a lot of variables, but it seems like the style of play is just entirely random. Balls flying everywhere, way too many deflections, crosses to nowhere, GK's continuing to make saves on balls clearly going wide, resulting in corners.  Shots from distance... holy crap!  I've never seen this many long shots in my entire FM experience going back to FM2011. 

I understand that tactically, you need to make sure players have options. But many times players WITH options just shoot at will.  And it's not like they're decent shots. They're astoundingly bad. 

It's not just long shots, but finishing in general is horrible, once again.  Last year I thought finishing couldn't be worse, but it absolutely is this year.  I truly believe finishing is nerfed so that games don't consistently end 10-9.  I'm exaggerating but, you get the point.  

Attacking movement seems completely illogical. I can instruct a player to do something obvious, and he'll just do something entirely different.  There's also funny things like, a WB-A having 297 touches in a match, despite having 2 designated playmakers in a team.  Makes no sense.   

On top of the issue w/ long shots is the appearance of balls just going aimlessly into the abyss. Wingers will routinely just smack a ball out of play, or they'll turn it into a shot of shorts and graze the top corner. I feel like this is one of the most frustrating parts of the gameplay right now.  Wing play is critical (obviously) and watching players just hammer the ball aimlessly is incredibly annoying. It ruins the experience. 

- Adding to the point above...  Tactics feel entirely random too now.  Before each match, my assistant manager is telling me I need to make big changes. How is that logical? I understand teams make adjustments each match in real life, but the assistant manager is asking me to fundamentally change my tactics every single time. That can't be right.  This has had a huge negative impact on the overall match experience. 

- I have a pretty good computer to play on, and the match engine just seems incredibly clunky, especially in comparison to years past. Player movement seems quite robotic, and the game tends to chug along much like sports titles used to back in the late 90's / early 2000's on PC (anyone ever play NHL 99 on PC? It looks like that!)  

- Scouting is a mess.  I don't know how else to describe it.  I'm sorry to be lazy on this part, but it's just awful.  There was nothing wrong with the way it was previously. 

- Conflicting data reports.  So, sometimes when you look at the analysis of recent matches, the output creates two completely opposite conclusions.  In my save, I recently noticed the following feedback:  "we're losing possession in the middle of the pitch (weakness)"  -  "We're consistently gaining possession in the middle of the pitch (positive)"   Well, which is it?   Are we just blindly giving the ball away and then winning it right back? According to my stats on interceptions and tackles, that is not the case.  So this is something that is really odd.  

 

Anyway that's my review. On the whole I'm really disappointed. I just rage-quit due to getting beat 3-nil with ping-pong style football.  Balls going everywhere, just getting pinged off of people in random directions. All kinds of deflections. Players endlessly shooting from distance and crossing to nowhere.   Just truly awful gameplay. 

 

 

[Sticx]

29 minutes ago, bababooey said:

Trying quite hard to appreciate this release but, overall I'm leaning negative.

The Good:

- Dynamics is a great feature to help get an overview of how your players feed off one another

- The tactics screen is improved greatly from FM17, and I love how much data there is for us to utilize

- The medical center was a smart addition, seems helpful so far

- 3D certainly looks better - but I can also see why many are not thrilled with it overall. Especially w/ the hype pre-release. 

The Bad/Ugly/Frustrating

- Immediately standing out is the UI. It is absolutely disgraceful to consider this game a finished product for sale to the public with how many bugs are present. 

- Adding to the UI issues is the amount of clicks necessary to do simple things / the overall flow of the screens. It takes longer than it should to do some simple, key tasks. These include things like: searching for a player, navigating through staff, checking out training, etc.  

- Adding to the point about excessive clicking...  There's been some "features" implemented that offer nothing to the user but more clicks. The pre-match tactical briefing is a perfect example. Can anyone show that it accomplishes anything? Every time I try to mention something to the team they have zero reaction.  So what's the point?  

- The way matches play out has been a huge let down for me.  In the matches I've played it genuinely feels like ping-pong, or some sort of weird smash and grab thing. Forgive my horrible explanation, but it's really hard to describe this. Football is obviously a game with a lot of variables, but it seems like the style of play is just entirely random. Balls flying everywhere, way too many deflections, crosses to nowhere, GK's continuing to make saves on balls clearly going wide, resulting in corners.  Shots from distance... holy crap!  I've never seen this many long shots in my entire FM experience going back to FM2011. 

I understand that tactically, you need to make sure players have options. But many times players WITH options just shoot at will.  And it's not like they're decent shots. They're astoundingly bad. 

It's not just long shots, but finishing in general is horrible, once again.  Last year I thought finishing couldn't be worse, but it absolutely is this year.  I truly believe finishing is nerfed so that games don't consistently end 10-9.  I'm exaggerating but, you get the point.  

Attacking movement seems completely illogical. I can instruct a player to do something obvious, and he'll just do something entirely different.  There's also funny things like, a WB-A having 297 touches in a match, despite having 2 designated playmakers in a team.  Makes no sense.   

On top of the issue w/ long shots is the appearance of balls just going aimlessly into the abyss. Wingers will routinely just smack a ball out of play, or they'll turn it into a shot of shorts and graze the top corner. I feel like this is one of the most frustrating parts of the gameplay right now.  Wing play is critical (obviously) and watching players just hammer the ball aimlessly is incredibly annoying. It ruins the experience. 

- Adding to the point above...  Tactics feel entirely random too now.  Before each match, my assistant manager is telling me I need to make big changes. How is that logical? I understand teams make adjustments each match in real life, but the assistant manager is asking me to fundamentally change my tactics every single time. That can't be right.  This has had a huge negative impact on the overall match experience. 

- I have a pretty good computer to play on, and the match engine just seems incredibly clunky, especially in comparison to years past. Player movement seems quite robotic, and the game tends to chug along much like sports titles used to back in the late 90's / early 2000's on PC (anyone ever play NHL 99 on PC? It looks like that!)  

- Scouting is a mess.  I don't know how else to describe it.  I'm sorry to be lazy on this part, but it's just awful.  There was nothing wrong with the way it was previously. 

- Conflicting data reports.  So, sometimes when you look at the analysis of recent matches, the output creates two completely opposite conclusions.  In my save, I recently noticed the following feedback:  "we're losing possession in the middle of the pitch (weakness)"  -  "We're consistently gaining possession in the middle of the pitch (positive)"   Well, which is it?   Are we just blindly giving the ball away and then winning it right back? According to my stats on interceptions and tackles, that is not the case.  So this is something that is really odd.  

 

Anyway that's my review. On the whole I'm really disappointed. I just rage-quit due to getting beat 3-nil with ping-pong style football.  Balls going everywhere, just getting pinged off of people in random directions. All kinds of deflections. Players endlessly shooting from distance and crossing to nowhere.   Just truly awful gameplay. 

 

 

I agree with everything in this post. Adding some things that also get on my nerves are the constant turnovers for no apparent reason when other passing options exist leading to a scoring chance every single time. "He almost got lucky with that" moments multiple times a match. Inch perfect long balls over the top leading to one on one's with my keeper multiple times a match. The final ten minutes in the game where the AI goes berserk and get scoring chance after chance until they get their goal. 

[Svenc]

14 hours ago, El Payaso said:

Currently it seems to be only designed for people who want to play it like an arcade game. 

Certainly some AI blunders in there, either way. And to me it's the frequency at which they occur that seems new. The 4-3-3 regularly Allegri switch with every sinple player pushed boxside, that Bayern guy never advancing his backs off a narrow formation. On a similar note, what professional manager would have all his playerse cutting inside/occupying the same space to make it easy to defend, whilst the deeper wide guys from behind wouldn't advance into that wide space vacated -- let alone both backs staying back throughout? edit: That said, this was the assistant manager upon holidaying, which may be relevant. He's at least performing quite inconsistently.



The reason why I doubt this is on purpose though is that by FM 2013, some of the nonsensical/gibberish duty allocations you semi-regularly see on this were classed as a bug, and made SI argue some may find the game a few more challengin all itself upon fixing them. The entire FM myth that you needed to read a tactical bible on this to get results has always been a myth (oft perpetuated by players that are/were used to back to back promotions and breaking all-timje records from downloading tactics which make player quality redundant, as that's naturally tough to replicate when you don't engage/find any such). However, looking at such, we can now show explicitly why it's such a myth. The only thing missing in the UI is the attacking shape encouraged by such. If somebody then wouldn't see what's iffy about it, in my opinion he's never played nor watched football. Are these worth reporting though? I reckon the tactical mods may have reported some of these already.

Edited November 21, 2017 by Svenc

[jam jameson]

8 hours ago, Jonsko said:

Is anyone else having a genuine issue with penalties? There are teams in my league (Conference South) that seem to be winning a penalty every other game.

 

I'm playing an online session with a friend and my friend agrees that they seem to be more regular than normal. There are also teams in his league with similar statistics. I know that we're playing at a low standard of football but this is something we do every year (and have done for years). I don't feel the statistics accurately represent a "real life" scenario. 

 

What is even more odd is that it always seems to be pushes or pulls of some kind that give the penalties away (or at least that is what I can see from the animation)

 

Then again, having conceded 4 penalties in the last 2 games, perhaps I'm a little bitter? 

In the Beta I noticed that there were no penalties at all, now I fully agree that they've gon over the top, just to add to the misery of the current ME...

[Dagenham_Dave]

9 hours ago, dking said:

 I'd be interested to know if/when something like this has happened in reality. I'm left with two first team players.

Last season Sunderland never once had less than around seven players out injured at any one point in the season, One of the reasons we had such a miserable season. The main one was still Moyes, however. 

[forameuss]

4 minutes ago, Dagenham_Dave said:

Last season Sunderland never once had less than around seven players out injured at any one point in the season, One of the reasons we had such a miserable season. The main one was still Moyes, however. 

And at Thistle we do all our training at either Tough Mudder or at one of the minefields Diana couldn't stop, such are our eternal injury problems.  Gary Woods was only with us for a few days before he picked up his first.

Injuries happen.  On average the numbers are (apparently) less than in real life, and that means some will likely have more while others have less.  That's how averages work.

[pablito15]

The "rating" view for staff doesn't actually load the ratiing bar in the view that comes up.

Just out of interest, how many testers are there pre-beta? 

 

[HUNT3R]

15 minutes ago, pablito15 said:

The "rating" view for staff doesn't actually load the ratiing bar in the view that comes up.

Thanks, though this is a bug, so should be reported in the bugs forum, if you don't mind: https://community.sigames.com/forum/585-user-interface-issues/

Cheers

[pablito15]

7 minutes ago, HUNT3R said:

Thanks, though this is a bug, so should be reported in the bugs forum, if you don't mind: https://community.sigames.com/forum/585-user-interface-issues/

Cheers

I kind of do mind... I'm not an employee.

[HUNT3R]

Just now, pablito15 said:

I kind of do mind... I'm not an employee.

No worries. 

[forameuss]

"This is broken"
"Would you like to give us an example to make it infinitely easier to fix?"
"OMG NO"

I'm sure these people will fully accept if things like this never get fixed, of course.

[rdbayly]

7 hours ago, bababooey said:

Trying quite hard to appreciate this release but, overall I'm leaning negative.

The Good:

- Dynamics is a great feature to help get an overview of how your players feed off one another

- The tactics screen is improved greatly from FM17, and I love how much data there is for us to utilize

- The medical center was a smart addition, seems helpful so far

- 3D certainly looks better - but I can also see why many are not thrilled with it overall. Especially w/ the hype pre-release. 

The Bad/Ugly/Frustrating

- Immediately standing out is the UI. It is absolutely disgraceful to consider this game a finished product for sale to the public with how many bugs are present. 

- Adding to the UI issues is the amount of clicks necessary to do simple things / the overall flow of the screens. It takes longer than it should to do some simple, key tasks. These include things like: searching for a player, navigating through staff, checking out training, etc.  

- Adding to the point about excessive clicking...  There's been some "features" implemented that offer nothing to the user but more clicks. The pre-match tactical briefing is a perfect example. Can anyone show that it accomplishes anything? Every time I try to mention something to the team they have zero reaction.  So what's the point?  

- The way matches play out has been a huge let down for me.  In the matches I've played it genuinely feels like ping-pong, or some sort of weird smash and grab thing. Forgive my horrible explanation, but it's really hard to describe this. Football is obviously a game with a lot of variables, but it seems like the style of play is just entirely random. Balls flying everywhere, way too many deflections, crosses to nowhere, GK's continuing to make saves on balls clearly going wide, resulting in corners.  Shots from distance... holy crap!  I've never seen this many long shots in my entire FM experience going back to FM2011. 

I understand that tactically, you need to make sure players have options. But many times players WITH options just shoot at will.  And it's not like they're decent shots. They're astoundingly bad. 

It's not just long shots, but finishing in general is horrible, once again.  Last year I thought finishing couldn't be worse, but it absolutely is this year.  I truly believe finishing is nerfed so that games don't consistently end 10-9.  I'm exaggerating but, you get the point.  

Attacking movement seems completely illogical. I can instruct a player to do something obvious, and he'll just do something entirely different.  There's also funny things like, a WB-A having 297 touches in a match, despite having 2 designated playmakers in a team.  Makes no sense.   

On top of the issue w/ long shots is the appearance of balls just going aimlessly into the abyss. Wingers will routinely just smack a ball out of play, or they'll turn it into a shot of shorts and graze the top corner. I feel like this is one of the most frustrating parts of the gameplay right now.  Wing play is critical (obviously) and watching players just hammer the ball aimlessly is incredibly annoying. It ruins the experience. 

- Adding to the point above...  Tactics feel entirely random too now.  Before each match, my assistant manager is telling me I need to make big changes. How is that logical? I understand teams make adjustments each match in real life, but the assistant manager is asking me to fundamentally change my tactics every single time. That can't be right.  This has had a huge negative impact on the overall match experience. 

- I have a pretty good computer to play on, and the match engine just seems incredibly clunky, especially in comparison to years past. Player movement seems quite robotic, and the game tends to chug along much like sports titles used to back in the late 90's / early 2000's on PC (anyone ever play NHL 99 on PC? It looks like that!)  

- Scouting is a mess.  I don't know how else to describe it.  I'm sorry to be lazy on this part, but it's just awful.  There was nothing wrong with the way it was previously. 

- Conflicting data reports.  So, sometimes when you look at the analysis of recent matches, the output creates two completely opposite conclusions.  In my save, I recently noticed the following feedback:  "we're losing possession in the middle of the pitch (weakness)"  -  "We're consistently gaining possession in the middle of the pitch (positive)"   Well, which is it?   Are we just blindly giving the ball away and then winning it right back? According to my stats on interceptions and tackles, that is not the case.  So this is something that is really odd.  

 

Anyway that's my review. On the whole I'm really disappointed. I just rage-quit due to getting beat 3-nil with ping-pong style football.  Balls going everywhere, just getting pinged off of people in random directions. All kinds of deflections. Players endlessly shooting from distance and crossing to nowhere.   Just truly awful gameplay. 

 

 

Agree with most but not all of this. I could honestly forgive the dreadful UI if the match engine was as polished as FM17. The issue in this ME is quite simply, player intelligence:

- Players with great concentration, positioning and anticipation failing to react to loose balls

- Aggressive players with great work rate, stamina, bravery, tackling and closing down instructions allowing creative opposition players way too many touches in and around the edge of the area 

- Players with great decisions, passing and technique constantly misplacing 5 yard passes with multiple options open to them

- Players with great decisions, vision and teamwork constantly smashing the ball into row z, despite multiple passing options open to them (within their assigned tactical passing range I might add)

- Intelligent and technical players consistently failing to make numerical advantage count on the break (often playing the ball into someone's backside or heel, or passing it behind their run)

- Players with great acceleration, pace, dribbling and balance consistently failing to outpace slow defenders

- Strikers clean through in 1v1 situations who constantly shoot from distance rather than travel into the area to improve their chances of scoring

etc etc etc etc etc...

[pablito15]

here's another one. 

when you have your philosophies meeting and request the two youth ones as well as "attacking" and "possession" they say "happy to agree to your changes" but only except the latter two. 

Edited November 21, 2017 by pablito15

[Firehouse]

The worst thing is that they might fix (or better say adjust ME, as they can't completely fix it), but I'm pretty sure they won't do anything with the UI at this stage. Changing the UI would make a brand new game, and I don't know how could they do it. But after 60 or so hours of FM18, the UI is just as bad as it was in the first couple of hours.

There's lot to be done with the ME though, I just hope they will release 18.2 soon. We mentioned a lot of times the too much of added time, still there. A lot of crosses 'he certainly didn't mean that', which are still there. Marking in general is poor, and the long shoots are horrible. And finishing is just as bad. So I can agree with @bababooey's post, and with the general consensus of most users here. FM18 could be a great game, but you just have to dig too deep to find it.

[upthetoon]

49 minutes ago, Firehouse said:

The worst thing is that they might fix (or better say adjust ME, as they can't completely fix it), but I'm pretty sure they won't do anything with the UI at this stage. Changing the UI would make a brand new game, and I don't know how could they do it. But after 60 or so hours of FM18, the UI is just as bad as it was in the first couple of hours.

There's lot to be done with the ME though, I just hope they will release 18.2 soon. We mentioned a lot of times the too much of added time, still there. A lot of crosses 'he certainly didn't mean that', which are still there. Marking in general is poor, and the long shoots are horrible. And finishing is just as bad. So I can agree with @bababooey's post, and with the general consensus of most users here. FM18 could be a great game, but you just have to dig too deep to find it.

I played the demo and I found the UI truly atrocious. which is why I did not purchase this game.

Edited November 21, 2017 by upthetoon

[BCFC_Mike]

8 hours ago, bababooey said:

Trying quite hard to appreciate this release but, overall I'm leaning negative.

The Good:

- Dynamics is a great feature to help get an overview of how your players feed off one another

- The tactics screen is improved greatly from FM17, and I love how much data there is for us to utilize

- The medical center was a smart addition, seems helpful so far

- 3D certainly looks better - but I can also see why many are not thrilled with it overall. Especially w/ the hype pre-release. 

The Bad/Ugly/Frustrating

- Immediately standing out is the UI. It is absolutely disgraceful to consider this game a finished product for sale to the public with how many bugs are present. 

- Adding to the UI issues is the amount of clicks necessary to do simple things / the overall flow of the screens. It takes longer than it should to do some simple, key tasks. These include things like: searching for a player, navigating through staff, checking out training, etc.  

- Adding to the point about excessive clicking...  There's been some "features" implemented that offer nothing to the user but more clicks. The pre-match tactical briefing is a perfect example. Can anyone show that it accomplishes anything? Every time I try to mention something to the team they have zero reaction.  So what's the point?  

- The way matches play out has been a huge let down for me.  In the matches I've played it genuinely feels like ping-pong, or some sort of weird smash and grab thing. Forgive my horrible explanation, but it's really hard to describe this. Football is obviously a game with a lot of variables, but it seems like the style of play is just entirely random. Balls flying everywhere, way too many deflections, crosses to nowhere, GK's continuing to make saves on balls clearly going wide, resulting in corners.  Shots from distance... holy crap!  I've never seen this many long shots in my entire FM experience going back to FM2011. 

I understand that tactically, you need to make sure players have options. But many times players WITH options just shoot at will.  And it's not like they're decent shots. They're astoundingly bad. 

It's not just long shots, but finishing in general is horrible, once again.  Last year I thought finishing couldn't be worse, but it absolutely is this year.  I truly believe finishing is nerfed so that games don't consistently end 10-9.  I'm exaggerating but, you get the point.  

Attacking movement seems completely illogical. I can instruct a player to do something obvious, and he'll just do something entirely different.  There's also funny things like, a WB-A having 297 touches in a match, despite having 2 designated playmakers in a team.  Makes no sense.   

On top of the issue w/ long shots is the appearance of balls just going aimlessly into the abyss. Wingers will routinely just smack a ball out of play, or they'll turn it into a shot of shorts and graze the top corner. I feel like this is one of the most frustrating parts of the gameplay right now.  Wing play is critical (obviously) and watching players just hammer the ball aimlessly is incredibly annoying. It ruins the experience. 

- Adding to the point above...  Tactics feel entirely random too now.  Before each match, my assistant manager is telling me I need to make big changes. How is that logical? I understand teams make adjustments each match in real life, but the assistant manager is asking me to fundamentally change my tactics every single time. That can't be right.  This has had a huge negative impact on the overall match experience. 

- I have a pretty good computer to play on, and the match engine just seems incredibly clunky, especially in comparison to years past. Player movement seems quite robotic, and the game tends to chug along much like sports titles used to back in the late 90's / early 2000's on PC (anyone ever play NHL 99 on PC? It looks like that!)  

- Scouting is a mess.  I don't know how else to describe it.  I'm sorry to be lazy on this part, but it's just awful.  There was nothing wrong with the way it was previously. 

- Conflicting data reports.  So, sometimes when you look at the analysis of recent matches, the output creates two completely opposite conclusions.  In my save, I recently noticed the following feedback:  "we're losing possession in the middle of the pitch (weakness)"  -  "We're consistently gaining possession in the middle of the pitch (positive)"   Well, which is it?   Are we just blindly giving the ball away and then winning it right back? According to my stats on interceptions and tackles, that is not the case.  So this is something that is really odd.  

 

Anyway that's my review. On the whole I'm really disappointed. I just rage-quit due to getting beat 3-nil with ping-pong style football.  Balls going everywhere, just getting pinged off of people in random directions. All kinds of deflections. Players endlessly shooting from distance and crossing to nowhere.   Just truly awful gameplay. 

 

Thought I was on a FIFA forum for a moment then.

I guess the wait continues for me then - Cheers for the feedback everyone, saves me a few quid 

[Dagenham_Dave]

1 minute ago, BCFC_Mike said:

I guess the wait continues for me then - Cheers for the feedback everyone, saves me a few quid 

Or you could try it yourself via the FREE demo. 

[potbellypigs]

Struggling to get going with this years version. Full FM feels like it's too much and FMT feels like it's too little.

[BCFC_Mike]

20 minutes ago, Dagenham_Dave said:

Or you could try it yourself via the FREE demo. 

I presumed that wouldn't be updated to the latest version, therefore almost pointless - or am I wrong?

I also think I should be able to go by feedback alone if it's coming from multiple sources - first time in many years I haven't gotten the game on release - to me it was gearing up to be a disaster. 

Edited November 21, 2017 by BCFC_Mike

[Etebaer]

Another positive development is that my Manager Face is still the same after counltess restarts, a huge amount of crashes and a large amount of hours of playtime.

[forameuss]

27 minutes ago, BCFC_Mike said:

I presumed that wouldn't be updated to the latest version, therefore almost pointless - or am I wrong?

I also think I should be able to go by feedback alone if it's coming from multiple sources - first time in many years I haven't gotten the game on release - to me it was gearing up to be a disaster. 

That would depend on what sources you're asking, or whether you're interested in forming an opinion yourself.

Honestly, even if the demo hasn't been updated, it hasn't changed enough to make too much of a difference.  Fair enough if you've played it and then seeking advice on what the differences have been, but to completely avoid it...I just don't understand.  

Why is there such an open aversion to forming your own opinion all of a sudden when it comes to FM?

[shaunwwfc]

I feel devastated but it just doesn't do it for me this year. There are just too many issues, many of which @bababooey touched on.

The game has got lost in itself for me. The simplistic thing about FM was how beautifully simplistic it was. It feels like FM has been taken over by someone, that is how difficult and irritating the UI is.

[Svenc]

I'd always try a demo if unsure, no least because experience tells me I couldn't fully trust most opinions on the game out there except on a purely technical level (crashes, technical bugs, etc). It's quite obvious that the game is catered to be a football sim in the long run, when expectations can wildly differ, in some cases be miles, miles, miles off (which is why the injury "bugs" forums are oft with stuff that in football wouldn't be worth writing home about, for instance). Tbf, if the game would go as far as replicating "realistic" finishing streaks, FM boards may be Rage-Quit Central (for gameplay reasons, it's good that the game isn't as random as real football can be, not sure I'd enjoy it much too not doing anything significantly wrong/different, only to see the side losing matches over and over again it could have at least taken draws from, which happens in football in every league). As football is also subjective, simulated or otherwise, that makes things even more complicated.

I only assess opinions of players I know to provide quality, in-depth feedback, but also then would always filter the demo when not having settled yet as to buy. Every opinion is valid, but as to how useful it is to me is another thing and oft hard to judge. SI should be applauded for still providing such, typically updating them too, as it's becoming increasingly a thing of the past -- there will be a generation of players who won't even remember what a demo is (let alone glorious covermount magazine discs once containing dozens of them ). As long as it's there, I'd take that opportunity over anybody's opinion anytime. It's how I also discovered the game after the local press has been trying to convince me it was for the most hardcore football fan only at best, and there would be better football games.

Edited November 21, 2017 by Svenc

[jc1]

Is anything going to be done about the god awful crowd noise that carries on at half time/full time talks, plus it's far to unrealistic when playing small teams in pre season.

[treble_yell_:-)]

27 minutes ago, forameuss said:

That would depend on what sources you're asking, or whether you're interested in forming an opinion yourself.

Honestly, even if the demo hasn't been updated, it hasn't changed enough to make too much of a difference.  Fair enough if you've played it and then seeking advice on what the differences have been, but to completely avoid it...I just don't understand.  

Why is there such an open aversion to forming your own opinion all of a sudden when it comes to FM?

You know you probably have 3x as many posts in this thread arguing with people over how they're wrong or criticising their posts than actually providing your own feedback ?

At this point you generally only post to back seat mod. 

 

OT - Player intelligence definitely needs work.  Strikers seem really reluctant to drive into space when its available over just shooting from distance.  Players with high passing / vision / flair / decisions etc failing to play the right ball ( lost count of the amount of times the ball gets played behind or cannoned straight at a WB or wide player bombing forward. 

The "he didn't mean that" cross shot is of course incredibly frustrating.  The way the ME deals with missed shots is also very jarring.  Still far to many shots that don't just go wide but end up out for throw-ins  or end up closer to the corner flag than goal. 

[CFuller]

A lot of what @bababooey said resonates with me. As I mentioned in a previous post here last week, the UI is just appalling, certainly in comparison to the slicker FM17 interface.

Something doesn't quite feel right with the Match Engine either. In the demo, I'm managing Bristol City - a Championship team who like to play direct football to a big target man. I appreciate that I'm not going to see as much free-flowing, possession football as I would in the Premier League or in Europe, but some of the stuff I've witnessed borders on non-league levels of incompetence.

Passing is often quite dreadful, and players don't seem to have much spatial awareness, resulting in what I call 'pinball' football. There's more, though. There've been multiple occasions in which I've seen a defence figuratively freeze as a long ball flew over the top, allowing a striker to race through and easily score. It happens in real life, but surely not with such regularity.

The amount of crosses I've seen tipped behind or over by a goalkeeper is staggering. Low crosses that aren't even finding the side netting before the keeper pushes them behind the byline irritate me no end. FM17 was quite poor when it came to the frequency of crosses that prompted the commentator to say "I'm not sure he meant that" or "he almost got lucky there", but it seems that FM18 is even worse in that respect.

I'm currently in the process of compiling all these 'freak' crosses into one big bug report, to be submitted later in the week. If more users did the same, perhaps it wouldn't be so much of a problem in the future.

I've also noticed a bit more lag than on FM17. That may be related to me having to use 'GPU rendering' for the first time, but I'm not sure.

Then there's injury-time. I'm not exaggerating when I say that there always seem to be three or four minutes added on at the end of matches, regardless of whether it's been a stop-start game or not.

All these problems mean that, for the first time since ~FM07, (and bear in mind that I'm only playing the demo) I actually consider the new FM to be worse overall than its predecessor. It still looks incredibly rough, and - dare I say - unfinished in a lot of places. I'll try to finish the demo, but beyond that, I think I'll stick with FM13 and FM17.

[Svenc]

54 minutes ago, treble_yell_:-) said:

The "he didn't mean that" cross shot is of course incredibly frustrating.  The way the ME deals with missed shots is also very jarring.  Still far to many shots that don't just go wide but end up out for throw-ins  or end up closer to the corner flag than goal. 

I find those curious that basically go way off over the sidelines. Curiously, having glanced over some matches on the last weekend, purely the shot maps wouldn't reveal anything that hugely off -- out of the shots going over the line I couldn't tell the difference if put side by side looking at the maps. Now how those shots come about would still need assessing. It's silly to suggest that FM were real "accurate", as it's a sim, not football. F'r instance, traditionally Inside Forwards cutting inside into cul-de-sacs and then finishing with a shot (an FM thing imo, not checked yet) and several more. However, this looks exaggerated to me, one of those cases were we (understandably) expect perfect decision making, when football on all levels is full of error. It's still probably more difficult to simulate believable imperfection rather than the opposite -- a decent shot is something everybody would appreciate, how about a marking error though? At what point will an error be perceived as a nuisance or a bug? Plus, how do you "believably" simulate guys being under pressure in general, when your core simulation arguably doesn't fully simulate the fundamentals as of that yet (actually contact between bodies, shoulder charges, guys also visibly struggling for balance when pressured under pace before taking their actions, etc.).

Anybody else experiencing weird/bad/questionably AI tactics and nonsensical decisions? I haven'T seen them reported anywhere, and not sure if it would warrant a report at all yet. All the tactics guys must be all over them already if they are some frequent. AI and, perhaps, consequently, inconsistent top sides as a "long-term" player are by far my biggest concern -- over the match UI which requires more clicks even for simple analysis as explained a few pages back. The biggest reservation by far as of FM 17, which was the wide midfielder positioning "issue" which on occasion allowed teams from tiers below to "dominate the pitch" purely based on their tactics has been adressed, which warrants a few props, given that I was all over that on FM 17, either way. That AI manager clogging all play down the middle -- now that shouldn't too much happen, but he was easily defended too, as it should be. No longer did the wide players anticipate forward runs of full backs that never came but shifted inside.

Edited November 21, 2017 by Svenc

[forameuss]

29 minutes ago, treble_yell_:-) said:

You know you probably have 3x as many posts in this thread arguing with people over how they're wrong or criticising their posts than actually providing your own feedback ?

At this point you generally only post to back seat mod. 

 

OT - Player intelligence definitely needs work.  Strikers seem really reluctant to drive into space when its available over just shooting from distance.  Players with high passing / vision / flair / decisions etc failing to play the right ball ( lost count of the amount of times the ball gets played behind or cannoned straight at a WB or wide player bombing forward. 

The "he didn't mean that" cross shot is of course incredibly frustrating.  The way the ME deals with missed shots is also very jarring.  Still far to many shots that don't just go wide but end up out for throw-ins  or end up closer to the corner flag than goal. 

Well if that is what I'm doing, which it isn't, at least I'm upsetting you.  I have no desire to moderate, back-seat or otherwise.  I don't see anything in that post criticising, just questioning why people would take the opinions of people they've never met when they have a completely free demo with which to form their own opinion.  It's always struck me as odd.

And if you really must know, since it seems to be bothering you, I've provided probably about as much feedback as I will, as I usually do with any FM release.  It's consistently around 7 out of 10 as it usually is, with certain annoyances and certain improvements.  If I encounter anything that bothers me enough to spoil my experience of the game, I'll raise it as a bug rather than in here.  Nothing has yet reached that level for me, so I haven't.  Dealing with them all day as a job makes it a bit of a busman's holiday to do so in leisure time, so I'm happy to accept that I can't really complain about any bugs if I'm not willing to chase up the bugs.

That alright?

EDIT: And just to keep it on topic so you don't completely lose it, for those complaining about the match engine being a little choppy, I completely removed any crowd animations in settings and it's now very smooth even on a pretty modest laptop.  Not the ideal solution, but given all the complaints about the crowd themselves, maybe something to pursue.

Edited November 21, 2017 by forameuss

[treble_yell_:-)]

Upsetting me 

I'm not remotely upset, rather pointing out how odd it was someone would post so much in a thread they apparently have no desire to partake in. 

Edited November 21, 2017 by treble_yell_:-)

[forameuss]

Just now, treble_yell_:-) said:

Upsetting me 

Actually embarrassed for you. 

A wee gif and a pithy retort.  Consider me well and truly chastened by the complete head's gone 

Not got anything to say on the point you actually replied on?  Didn't think so.  Constructive.  Do you disagree that it's odd to prefer the opinion of others rather than form your own with a free product?  Fair enough if you do.

 

[treble_yell_:-)]

6 minutes ago, forameuss said:

A wee gif and a pithy retort.  Consider me well and truly chastened by the complete head's gone 

Not got anything to say on the point you actually replied on?  Didn't think so.  Constructive.  Do you disagree that it's odd to prefer the opinion of others rather than form your own with a free product?  Fair enough if you do.

 

Obviously not.  What I find odd is why you feel it's your responsibility to repeatedly point out that the demo exists. You could always just let the moderation team do their job and ignore a thread you don't want to take part in. 

 

I guess I'm just not as emotionally invested in what people are saying about a video game as you are. Each to their own.

Edited November 21, 2017 by treble_yell_:-)

[forameuss]

3 minutes ago, treble_yell_:-) said:

Obviously not.  What I find odd is why you feel it's your responsibility to repeatedly point out that the demo exists. You could always just let the moderation team do their job and ignore a thread you don't want to take part in. 

I guess I'm just not as emotionally invested in what people are saying about a video game as you are. Each to their own.

Yeah, not emotionally invested at all that you felt you had to post in the first place, complaining about how I'm somehow desperate to be a mod.  Aye, Ok.

If I was doing anything I wasn't allowed to do, then I'd imagine the moderation team would have stepped in, so couldn't you always just let the moderation team do their job and ignore any comments that you don't particularly like?  Or is all discussion only allowed if it follows a narrative you happen to agree with?

[HUNT3R]

This isn't feedback on the game, so cut it out please.

[jam jameson]

Furhter hours spent playing, furhter feedback on the ME (we've already said everything about the UI...)...screenshots show another depressing issue with the ME...this is where 40% of my goals come from (I'm playing LLM)...the opponent defence is perfectly placed at the beginning of the action, nobody pressing my ball carrier but maybe you may think that it's fair since he's turned towards my goal and he's in my own half of the pitch...but as the ball carrier thinks, turns and fires a 'pirlo-style' pass behind the defence, they keep staying still, while my super-clever forward just run free towrds the goal...the outcome of this action? guess...so we have 40% goals (both for and adverse) from set pieces, 40% goals from long and aimless balls behind the defence, the remaining 20% from mixed situations...not a great enjoyment at all...nevertheless I feel something good in the ME, some midfield combinations are brand new vs the previous versions and are very pleasant to watch to...but SI definitely needs to work on this ME, holding on the good things and amending the bad ones, they're too much to be happy with the game...

 

[bigmattb28]

2 hours ago, shaunwwfc said:

I feel devastated but it just doesn't do it for me this year. There are just too many issues, many of which @bababooey touched on.

The game has got lost in itself for me. The simplistic thing about FM was how beautifully simplistic it was. It feels like FM has been taken over by someone, that is how difficult and irritating the UI is.

I feel ya brother! The lag between screens, the extra clicks to do simple tasks, match engine I can't even describe! Whilst I aren't asking for a refund in the hope of a major patch to sort this out I am sticking to 17.

[ubos]

Cause trash like this happens.

 

[jc1]

11 minutes ago, ubos said:

Cause trash like this happens.

 

It that Real Madrid v Leeds lol

 

TBH my biggest bug bear right now is watching every shot or cross that comes in being either fumbled or tipped round the post by keepers with the slimiest hands in the world, just so unrealistic.

[macca72]

I must admit i'm struggling with the ME this year, I'm genuinely gutted as many above I can't see past it.

1. The near post did-he-mean-it crosses are far too frequent

2. 60 yard over the top passes from terrible centre halves that the strikers always control first time for a 1 on 1

3. Players constantly facing the wrong way from the play and being hit on the heels with simple 5 yard passes

4. Defenders far too frequently on the wrong side of forwards when crosses and through balls go in

5. Goalkeepers are terrible

6. Players trying to clear the ball across their own goal when they could simply put it out for a throw

7. Crosses that bounce of the top of the bar or are tipped over by keepers

There's more i'm sure but these are the ones I see a lot.  

[CFuller]

Can somebody please convince me that this scenario actually makes sense?

My Bristol City team have just been on an eight-match unbeaten run early in the season, taking us up to into the play-off places. We then lose 3-0 away to Ipswich (in the bottom half) before the October international break. That said, we are still in 5th place and defying pre-season expectations, which had us down as finishing in mid-table.

I hold a team meeting before our next game, at home to Burton. I say, "The way you've all been playing at this early stage of the season should give everyone confidence that we can go on and avoid relegation."

Every single player reacts badly, saying that "we're heading in the wrong direction". I could understand them complaining that I was playing down expectations, but to say that we were going in the wrong direction? After one defeat, which was just our second in 11 league matches?

I'm not angry or anything. I'm just struggling to work out if things are working as intended.

[wateronglass]

Is it a bug that an Irish club have been able to offer a contract to my player when he still has just under 6 months remaining?

Edited November 21, 2017 by wateronglass

[oulzac]

1 minute ago, wateronglass said:

Is it a bug that an Irish club have been able to offer a contract to my player when he still has just 6 months remaining?

Nope. Anyone in any other country other than England can do this. And you can do this to any other country other than England, when playing in England. The only way it isn't possible is England to England. Every other combo is allowed.

[wateronglass]

1 minute ago, oulzac said:

Nope. Anyone in any other country other than England can do this. And you can do this to any other country other than England, when playing in England. The only way it isn't possible is England to England. Every other combo is allowed.

Thanks. So is it only permissible with 6 months remaining, or can it be done at any time? I don't recall having this happen in thousands of hours of previous iterations.

[oulzac]

7 minutes ago, wateronglass said:

Thanks. So is it only permissible with 6 months remaining, or can it be done at any time? I don't recall having this happen in thousands of hours of previous iterations.

6 months or less is the time it can be done.

[oulzac]

Am I crazy, or do asymmetrical formations completely break confuse the crap out of the match engine? It seems like I can beat anyone while using a goofy asymmetrical system.

 

 

Edited November 21, 2017 by oulzac

[warlock]

1 hour ago, CFuller said:

Can somebody please convince me that this scenario actually makes sense?

Sorry, but it makes sense to me. You were tipped for mid-table, you're fighting for a play-off spot, then you call a meeting and start talking about relegation. Why wouldn't players think you're going in the wrong direction?

[CFuller]

3 minutes ago, warlock said:

Sorry, but it makes sense to me. You were tipped for mid-table, you're fighting for a play-off spot, then you call a meeting and start talking about relegation. Why wouldn't players think you're going in the wrong direction?

That is fair enough. I just chose that option because I felt there was nothing else appropriate to say to a mid-range team that was confounding expectations.

I noticed that there was another option to essentially say, "If we keep this form up, there is no way we will be relegated." Would that have been a more logical choice?

[warlock]

Just now, CFuller said:

I noticed that there was another option to essentially say, "If we keep this form up, there is no way we will be relegated." Would that have been a more logical choice?

Probably not. There's often not a good choice, which is why I avoid team meetings unless necessary. My favourite is one that goes something like "you've been playing really well lately. Keep up the good work". Usually gets a good response but only once or twice a season. They have a very low boredom threshold, these players!

[CFuller]

2 minutes ago, warlock said:

Probably not. There's often not a good choice, which is why I avoid team meetings unless necessary. My favourite is one that goes something like "you've been playing really well lately. Keep up the good work". Usually gets a good response but only once or twice a season. They have a very low boredom threshold, these players!

There are times where the best choice is to say nothing. I guess that was probably one of them.

I just wanted some honest feedback, so I'm grateful for that. It was just a shock to see a tight-knit squad suddenly lose a lot of morale because I said the wrong thing.

Anyway, the Burton match finished 1-1, so I hope it didn't cause too much damage in the long run. (I actually had to replay that match because of a crash dump in the first half. It's the first time I have ever had one mid-game in FM.)