Pep's Barcelona (Very Fluid)

[kidthekid]

I tend to use retain possession with short passing and I never saw a reduction in chance creation. I do drop it if I'm facing a solid defense, to encourage more risky passes

Following Yonko's point I will watch out for situations when defenders are hoofing the ball and see if it's because they are holding on to the ball too much.

I liked the discussion of retain possession and short passing because sometimes some posters give the impression that both TIs in conjunction can't work.

[yonko]

On 4/29/2017 at 15:45, retrodude09 said:

I think when a HB isn't necessary, I would change the position to a standard Defensive Midfielder (on either mentality). You could argue that Busquets is a playmaker but, I would rather see the ball go to Xavi or Iniesta (or whoever you have in their positions) than to Busquets.

It would also be interesting to see a RPM instead of a DLP & the effects that has? 

 

Busquets was either HB or DLP-D under Pep. Sometimes he had more passes completed than Iniesta even and close to what Xavi was making. Sure, Xavi was Pep's main playmaker, but Busquets was more involved than a simple DM.

6 hours ago, alinp said:

@yonko - I've been looking back at your posts in this thread and the evolution of your approach.  Given the adjustments you state earlier to your Season 2 version, are you no longer using your Attacking and Defensive versions?  It seems to me that with your default Control version, Standard variations, Counter option & Role changes, these other 2 versions you had for season 1 become redundant.

No, in season 2 I didn't use what I did in season 1 with the versions per se.

I was a lot more settled on the instructions. However, I still changed Mentality as needed, though in season 2 was between Control (most of the time), Standard (breaking teams down) and Counter (tough games, killing off games). In the second part of the second season is when I started to tweak the roles. It was after a home game which I drew 0-0 against a team that defended and was tough to break down. The other methods didn't work so I figured I gotta try different roles that will give me more punch. And I also recognize when I don't need to use HB and I prefer DLP-D instead. From there it is just a logical trickle effect. Why do I need a DLP-S when I have a DLP-D? I don't. So that role changes to AP-S or RPM, logically. When these roles change and when I need more of a goal threat, why do I need a AP-A? I don't. So that role changes logically to the most goal-threatening role for that position - CM-A. What does he need? He needs space and service. Therefore the IF becomes a Winger. It's just all logical changes really...at least to me.

I think my posts clearly show how my approaches change from season 1 to season 2. I figured pretty quickly that I don't need to do what I did in the beginning as my save game goes on. Season 3 is also different than season 2. 

[yonko]

4 hours ago, kidthekid said:

I tend to use retain possession with short passing and I never saw a reduction in chance creation. I do drop it if I'm facing a solid defense, to encourage more risky passes

Following Yonko's point I will watch out for situations when defenders are hoofing the ball and see if it's because they are holding on to the ball too much.

I liked the discussion of retain possession and short passing because sometimes some posters give the impression that both TIs in conjunction can't work.

The two instructions can work. But you need to pay attention of how aggressive the opposition presses your players. If they start losing the ball too easily in dangerous positions, then that is a signal to change something.

There is no set of instructions that works all the time. Small tweaks need to be made here and there. At some point the AI will respond and you have to respond back.

[alinp]

7 hours ago, yonko said:

I think my posts clearly show how my approaches change from season 1 to season 2. I figured pretty quickly that I don't need to do what I did in the beginning as my save game goes on. Season 3 is also different than season 2. 

Indeed. I think it's really interesting to see how you're evolving your tactical approach over time and haven't settled, always looking to improve.  I look forward to the season 3 update.

[martywigham]

Hey, good work on this. I always love people trying to recreate Pep's Barca, and it's starting to come together nicely with my Newcastle save (FM16).

 

I've been trying to come up with a general list of PPMs to train that would make the most of the system and get the younger players playing like the team they will be replacing. Ozil, could you check this and see if there are any you would add or remove? 

 

SK - Plays short simple passes (this can't be done on FM16 but I think I've seen it on 17?)

BPD - Plays short simple passes

HB - Plays short simple passes, stays back at all times

WB - Gets forward whenever possible, Runs with ball down right/left, Hugs line

DLP - Comes deep to get ball, Plays one-twos, Dictates tempo

AP - Trys killer balls often, Plays one-twos, Dictates tempo

IF - Cuts inside, Gets into opposition area, Runs with ball often

SS - Comes deep to get ball, Trys killer balls often, Runs with ball often

 

[kad38]

@Ö-zil to the Arsenal! Hello I use the 4-4-2 flat so I try the link you put (arrigo sacchi) a line of defense very high, more pressure all with very fluid and control is not bad but I take a lot of goal in the back of my defense the opponents have boulevard in front of them and I take that goals like that .... what to do after you ?? Thank you for your formidable work

[leesmith90]

@Ö-zil to the Arsenal! absolutely brilliant work yet again. I enjoy reading all of your work, cruyffs 3-4-3 was a particular highlight. Do you think you would consider reviewing allegris juve tactic given their exploits this season using a rather unique tactic? 

Edited May 10, 2017 by leesmith90

[BrickCommo23]

 

Hi all,

I've always struggled with making my own tactics and tended to download other people's work and/or give up so a big thank you to @Ö-zil to the  for these threads.

I just wanted to share my attempt at using this system at Arsenal and some results.

 

I was already a few seasons in to my save so there was already some different players in place compared to starting a new save but many of the roles would work for the starting Arsenal squad too I think.

The one tweak I did make (and I wasn't sure if this would work) was to smash in some of the techniques from the Sacchi 442 at Milan thread. I wanted to have most of the ball but also have the Action Zones show as little as possible of the ball was in my half.

Come the end of the season, we lead in points, goals scored but also other stats I was aiming for such as possession, passes completed, shots on target, tackles and the all important points.

Thanks!

[Joey Numbaz]

I am not sure of which thread makes more sense to post on, but I have officially gone full Ozil with my Everton save in FM2017.

I am using the Pep tactic along with hints of yonko's tweaks as my main tactic, especially in game (like dropping retain possession, dropping to standard), if not breaking down tough opponents. I even use Yonko's alternate duties sometimes.

But here's the tweak ... I use the Wales tactic against tough opponents on the road, when my squad is tired, and I have to play backups and kids; and when closing out games. The tactic can struggle to score at times (though as we learn it we are getting better); but holy cow with a good team it is crazy great defensive.

Domestically 910 minutes of Wales 6 clear cut chances allowed (one every 151 minutes), two were penalties

Continentally 530 minutes (knockout rounds of Europa) of the tactic and 2 (!) clear cut chances allowed (one every 265 minutes) - I won the 2017-18 Europa League, started doing this combination of Pep/Wales in February 2018. Started Pep tactic in July 2017 as an evolution from the Ajax tactic.

The Ozil/Yonko Pep formation gets a clear cut chance every 50 minutes domestically (last 20 matches) and gives one up every 75 and got one every 38 minutes and allowed one every 129 in the Europa knockout rounds.

I am in October 2018, Baines retired after 2017-18; I am mostly building with youth in terms of U18 and U23 transfers. I haven't signed any old transfers, though I will grab a young star for a first team transfer (see below). A few things helped make the combo work.

1) I have trained Brendan Galloway as a WBL. So now he can play both WBL and DC. Which makes it much easier to switch between the two tactics mid-game without a sub. Also makes it nice for set pieces to have another tall player.

2) I signed Davy Klaassen and Riechedly Bazoer (like I said, full Ozil - combining the old Ajax tactic which I played in 2016-17 with these two - I go to Ajax first when I need a young player!).

Those guys can move between DM/CM (Bazoer) and CM/AMC (Klaassen) which gives flexibility. Combined with Barkley - man it's fun to watch!

3) I only look at fast DCs. I signed Chancel Mbemba from Newcastle. I cut Jagielka's playing time immediately. Basically the minimum I'll accept for a DC is 14-15 pace. I won't look at youth team (age 17) players that aren't at least 11-12 pace. If you are 19 you need at least 12-13 pace for me to even have the scouts attempt full knowledge at any position.

I signed a few others, Alex Iwobi, Louis Schaub to be the left-footed IFR and Christian Pulisic to bounce around the AMC strata as a sub and starter when the first 3 AMCs are tired. Sead Haksabanovic has also been a really useful young player, promoted to the first team around halfway through 2017-18.

Which reminds me, my under 18 team is great. My under 23 team is pretty good, considering I rarely play first teamers. I cut down the U18 to 16 players plus a couple (3-4) of scrubs for when everyone is out on international duty but the U18s still play. The U23 is also 16 players. I loan everyone else out;  loaning the worst prospects, or guys that are on the old side (22-23) who just aren't good enough to play on the first team. I released a ton of young players too. I play the youth guys in the first team when a sub is tired. I also make sure everyone gets enough time, I actively manage the starting lineups for the U23 and U18 teams, though their coaches manage the games. I have pretty much 2.5-3.5 star (at least 2.5 with the extra star blacked out for uncertainty) and up potential young players for all 16 spots on the U23 and U18 rosters (except for the couple of scrubs and loanees). I have my scouts shoot for 4 star potential minimum too.

Playing this way is a lot of fun. Thanks Ozil! And yonko. And everyone else.

Edited May 18, 2017 by Joey Numbaz

[yonko]

Good job. Keep it up. Thanks for mentioning me along side @Ö-zil to the Arsenal!.

[Sparky_07]

This is brilliant, any more updates Ozil?

[wkdsoul]

Really like the look of this, might give it ago with my Brazil Seria C team..  

[leb]

Brilliant post and tactic, however I made some reeeeeally small changes to the player roles. TI's remained the same.

The change of AP(a) to RPM? Purely a personal choice. Always had success in getting that penetrative Iniesta-type midfielder with RPM with more risky passes and move into channels PI's.

AP(s) instead of IF(s)... To me, the IF(s) with the Stay wider PI left the RPM and the SS too alone in the center of the field with no easy and safe passing options, causing them to easily give away possession and resort to beating the marker/play a very risky pass to the back of the defense almost every time. One IF(s) with the stay wider PI still caused the defense and midfield to stretch creating space, while the AP(s) on the opposite flank gave a bigger support to the midfielders and SS, creating more safe passing options to keep possession when needed, but still have the movement to make dangerous runs. I did this because of a video I saw once of Henry talking about how Guardiola always had one of the wingers very wide while the team had the ball on the opposite flank. This is what my AP(s) does, supports the team more centrally providing a safe option to pass, keeping possession, getting the ball, playing a pass to the back of the defense for the SS or the IF(s), playing a pass to one of the midfielders that is exploiting space created by the very wide IF(s) or simply change the flank with a pass to the wide IF that then can choose to beat his marker, causing havoc in the flank getting in a scoring position or a crossing position, or playing a pass to a runner. I felt the need to do it because 2 IF(s) stretched my own team too much and left no support to the player who had the ball until it got to the final 3rd.

Coric? Had amazing success with him on the wingback position, what a great player. He's fast, agile, has great technique, has great vision, movement, flair, not the best decision wise but is a great attacking force, also has some crazy freekicks in his bag. His defensive stats aren't great, but somehow he performs way better than he should when defending. Grimaldo is a beast at everything, so he balances my back 4 pretty well when Coric goes up the pitch, he's a tank on the wing.

 

Cheers

[noikeee]

On 08/08/2017 at 05:55, leb said:

Brilliant post and tactic, however I made some reeeeeally small changes to the player roles. TI's remained the same.

The change of AP(a) to RPM? Purely a personal choice. Always had success in getting that penetrative Iniesta-type midfielder with RPM with more risky passes and move into channels PI's.

AP(s) instead of IF(s)... To me, the IF(s) with the Stay wider PI left the RPM and the SS too alone in the center of the field with no easy and safe passing options, causing them to easily give away possession and resort to beating the marker/play a very risky pass to the back of the defense almost every time. One IF(s) with the stay wider PI still caused the defense and midfield to stretch creating space, while the AP(s) on the opposite flank gave a bigger support to the midfielders and SS, creating more safe passing options to keep possession when needed, but still have the movement to make dangerous runs. I did this because of a video I saw once of Henry talking about how Guardiola always had one of the wingers very wide while the team had the ball on the opposite flank. This is what my AP(s) does, supports the team more centrally providing a safe option to pass, keeping possession, getting the ball, playing a pass to the back of the defense for the SS or the IF(s), playing a pass to one of the midfielders that is exploiting space created by the very wide IF(s) or simply change the flank with a pass to the wide IF that then can choose to beat his marker, causing havoc in the flank getting in a scoring position or a crossing position, or playing a pass to a runner. I felt the need to do it because 2 IF(s) stretched my own team too much and left no support to the player who had the ball until it got to the final 3rd.

Coric? Had amazing success with him on the wingback position, what a great player. He's fast, agile, has great technique, has great vision, movement, flair, not the best decision wise but is a great attacking force, also has some crazy freekicks in his bag. His defensive stats aren't great, but somehow he performs way better than he should when defending. Grimaldo is a beast at everything, so he balances my back 4 pretty well when Coric goes up the pitch, he's a tank on the wing.

 

Cheers

I was re-reading this thread today, being very tempted to try to use this system in FM17 still, and I found your alternative highly interesting. I think a AP on the wing might not quite replicate Guardiola's setup as much, since Villa/Pedro were most definitely not playmakers at all, but I like the balance a lot more, I think having just one of the wingers stay wider is sufficient.

3 questions:

a) why do you have the AP on the left wing, the same flank that has the more restrained wingback? Wouldn't this suit better the other flank where the wingback attacks more and could occupy the space left open by the narrower AP?

b) is the switch from AP/A to RPM/S for the CM, connected to the change in the wing role, or was this merely your personal preference and not connected in any way?

c) I feel like adding an extra playmaker role like this (in the wing), could have the negative drawback of losing a bit of penetration and making the overall balance a wee bit too patient, do you find this is a problem or not really?

Thanks.

[leb]

7 hours ago, noikeee said:

I was re-reading this thread today, being very tempted to try to use this system in FM17 still, and I found your alternative highly interesting. I think a AP on the wing might not quite replicate Guardiola's setup as much, since Villa/Pedro were most definitely not playmakers at all, but I like the balance a lot more, I think having just one of the wingers stay wider is sufficient.

3 questions:

a) why do you have the AP on the left wing, the same flank that has the more restrained wingback? Wouldn't this suit better the other flank where the wingback attacks more and could occupy the space left open by the narrower AP?

b) is the switch from AP/A to RPM/S for the CM, connected to the change in the wing role, or was this merely your personal preference and not connected in any way?

c) I feel like adding an extra playmaker role like this (in the wing), could have the negative drawback of losing a bit of penetration and making the overall balance a wee bit too patient, do you find this is a problem or not really?

Thanks.

Hey man! Getting straight to the point

a) that is true, I did think about it but with the IF and CWB the overload on that wing is greater, which in my opinion stretches the oposition even more, because the opposite marker for my Right wing back has to stay wide to cover for his offensive positioning that is very wide, wider than the IF most of the times, leaving a bit more space to my central players (not much but still a bit more), which is great because the AP on the wing is much more central in his positioning during the build up. This was a mere coincidence though, caused by my lack of left footed players suited to play a playmaking role, but Grimaldo is an inteligent player and almost always takes advantage of the space. Granted Coric gets about 20 assists every season while Grimaldo barely assists through crosses but looking at the PI's screen, a Wing-back is almost the same as the complete wing back, he's just not so restrained in hard-coded PI's telling him to go wide and the "get further forward", crossing more often and Roam from position, which he does, he's just not going to rampage to the byline to take a cross every single time and be everywhere. Also he's great at defending and worse at attacking than Coric so makes sense to make him less wild in the pitch everytime but still give him freedom to be when he feels like it.

b) Not connected at all, just preference. Had an amazing experience in Fm16 with Lemar as a RPM winning severall Ballon D'or trophies and playing like an overpowered version of Iniesta, I just never left that role out of my teams ever since.

c) I don't think you'll lose penetration, but you will lose directness. The AP is much less like "I'm gonna dribble this dude till the end of times and run to the box" but is much more everything else. It's basically an IF with a more varied style of play. An AP on the wing can be an IF if he feels like it, but an IF (at least for me) never is an AP. If you feel like he's stopping your play too much, just change him to an attack duty, he'll be riskier in his plays and a bit more direct with the ball at his feet. Regarding movement i never felt I lost penetration, it's just that his runs are more central (between FB and CB than from the outside of the opposite fullback) which my IF were doing constantly. If you feel like he's being too central, make him stay wider, he'll be basically like an IF without the stay wider PI. He'll be doing to same thing, he'll just be receiving the ball closer to the line than the normal AP.

Hope I made sense to you with my explanations about my choices!

[hyrule_king]

Very nice read.

[Gegenklaus]

Hey everyone. God I love this tactic and the way one use it to play FM. I have finished first season with Dortmund using this tactic - with some tweaking. I won the league in a close run ahead of all mighty Bayern. In the league I only lost once (away against Bayern who beat me 3-0). Had too many draws but considering it being the first season it was acceptable. Liverpool knocked us out in the first knock out phase. They were simply better a team. 

I began my with updated transfers and starting date to be this season. So I only had one transfer window to Make my mark upon the team. Bought a brazilian back, Zeca, and sold some deadwood. 

Julian Weigl has worked really well as Dortmund's version of Busquets. Dahoud and Sahin as poor man's Xavi. Gotze and Kagawi as the Iniesta role. Abaumeyang has been incredible as shadow striker. His technique is far from Messi (who isnt though) but his pace combined with off the Ball makes him tear the oppositions dernede apart and He still gets a lot of assist. His 41 goals is What really matters though. By doing some tweaking I have made him my focal point in the attack and when He is playing I therefore ask him not to roam. By doing that He seems to camp more on the defensive line picking up through balls from everyone behind him. 

Anyway, I just wanted to thank Özil and everyone who has contributed to this thread. I have learned a lot from it.

[isignedupfornorealreason]

Don't know if you'll read this Ozil but anyway,

 

I copied this, just for kicks on a dummy file I have running. 

Just wanted to watch how it plays really, I don't usually go anywhere near Fluid and Control etc, those two concepts are somewhat alien to me at times - I lie, the whole mentality/fluidity is alien to me 99% of the time.  

 

Two things I noticed:

 

1. The attacking play is fascinating to watch. There's some really nice inter-play, between midfield and 'attack' so to speak. It is impressive, honestly.

2. It is defensively fragile in my (limited) opinion, and the problem is the half-back mechanism. 

 

I'll explain: As you said if the players are in the FB slot, the CB's don't split. So they're up in the WB slot, which is fine, causes the CB to split very, very wide. There's a massive vulnerability though. If you get a deep turnover, the moment the players win the ball, it seems the team moves into transition rather aggressively. So, the CB's split immediately. If they play a daft long ball, or they get instantly-pressured, the result is usually a simple ball to the opposition striker when they inevitably lose possession, who is clean through and saying 'thank you very much'. I didn't adjust anything to rectify this, I'm not messing about with it, as I don't know the system, it isn't my system. But I thought it was a serious flaw.

 

In the three games I used it, I conceded 4 goals (we scored 9 though), and to be honest, there were *so* many of these chances, that I really figured the opposition should have exploited it better. 

 

FWIW, I ran the formation with a sub-par England team. Honestly, I called up Jonny Howson for crying out loud. England won the following fixtures:

 

1. Chile 3-1

2. Argentina 3-2 (going behind twice thanks to Messi)

3. Belgium 3-1

 

Jamie Vardy was pretty amazing in that AMC slot, and Rashford was crazy good over at AML. Delle Alli and Lalana are 'world class' in 17 apparently (really now?), so they ran riot in the middle. It was pretty good to watch, I've read the thread over and it is still beyond me, but it was an interesting system for sure. (And that won me the World Cup, hah, so credit to you there.)

[Woho]

I must say I think this tactic seems really interesting and I consider to try this as a project for the start of my fm18-save. I have some questions/thoughts to those that have tried it:

1) If you really try to replicate Guardiola have you tried it with "play wider" and "higher defensive line"? And maybe the "Look for overlaps" as well. I'v never managed to create a very effective high and wide possession based tactic, but I feel that is pretty much the basic of Gouardiolas gameplan.

2) IF you go back to the Henry/Villa-time you might want that AML as a Raumdeuter as well? As its pretty much a striker out wide.

 

Overall it looks very good with some fantastic results. I expecially enjoyed that number 10 at the right wing back! Definitely something that I'll try myself.

 

[leb]

Hey guys. Trying out this system in Fm18 with some small changes. Did someone notice the AP(at) tens to play deeper and not make many supporting runs and attack the space in front of him? I tried playing an CM(s) alongside him because I wanted to use only 1 playmaker and the CM would make much more runs and be a bigger threat than he was, so I changed him to a CM(a) and the DLP to the AP(s) and the Iniesta role seems to be much more penetrative...

 

Wondering if you guys trying it out also saw what I saw.

[jean.lamy84]

On 11/11/2017 at 00:08, leb said:

Hey guys. Trying out this system in Fm18 with some small changes. Did someone notice the AP(at) tens to play deeper and not make many supporting runs and attack the space in front of him? I tried playing an CM(s) alongside him because I wanted to use only 1 playmaker and the CM would make much more runs and be a bigger threat than he was, so I changed him to a CM(a) and the DLP to the AP(s) and the Iniesta role seems to be much more penetrative...

 

Wondering if you guys trying it out also saw what I saw.

Hi,

Thanks to you this thread raised up! After a first seaon of tries, I've set up exactly the system explained by @Ö-zil to the Arsenal! . 
Just changing sometimes the half back to anchor man, depending on opposition.

I dit not noticed a lack of supporting runs from the AP(a) (playing with Dele Alli). Maybe this can be due to the player you are playing with.

 

[Callummack]

Hi guys, 

After using this tactic in FM17 with a lot of success I thought id give it a go in this years version. 

The main problem I'm struggling to fix is the amount of shots of target. (most of these coming from my APa) 

Ive also found that both of my inside forwards are getting very low match ratings which is very annoying considering I'm still playing Messi as one. 

I'm currently in march on my save and Suarez (who I'm plays as SS) has only managed 14 goals, I'm sitting in 2nd place 9 points off Atletico Madrid with a game in hand .

Has anyone else given this ago that have faced the same problems as me? Would love to here back for use on possible solutions.... That goes for you to @Ö-zil to the Arsenal! 

[leb]

On 26/11/2017 at 22:50, Callummack said:

Hi guys, 

After using this tactic in FM17 with a lot of success I thought id give it a go in this years version. 

The main problem I'm struggling to fix is the amount of shots of target. (most of these coming from my APa) 

Ive also found that both of my inside forwards are getting very low match ratings which is very annoying considering I'm still playing Messi as one. 

I'm currently in march on my save and Suarez (who I'm plays as SS) has only managed 14 goals, I'm sitting in 2nd place 9 points off Atletico Madrid with a game in hand .

Has anyone else given this ago that have faced the same problems as me? Would love to here back for use on possible solutions.... That goes for you to @Ö-zil to the Arsenal! 

Yes, I do. Had some success with Felipe Anderson at Arsenal once I changed his duty to attack, otherwise the IF's aren't that aggressive without the ball.

[Pablo Sanchez]

have u done any tactic work on fm 18 yet? ozil

[rdk]

hi, sorry to bother you but, do you use any opposition instructions?

[ferrarinseb]

Did any one tried this one in FM18 ? 

[zlatanera]

On 17/01/2018 at 03:31, ferrarinseb said:

Did any one tried this one in FM18 ? 

Yes. Neymar missing is a real bitch in terms of developing the squad - Ousmane Dembele refuses to get tutored by anyone and just isn't developing despite 35 starts and 16 substitute appearances - unlike Ozil it's going to take until the third season to get my squad fully assembled as Barca's finances seem worse than they were on FM17 - I've had to fight and fight with the board just to get 65% of a transfers back into my budget and that was after making £150million for the club.

 

First season brought in Mesut Ozil (£32m), Dries Mertens (£26.5m) and Aymeric Laporte (£58m) whilst shipping out Arda Turan (250k per month loan fee, £26.5m mandatory purchase), Thomas Vermaelen (£8m), Aleix Vidal (£17.75m) and Ivan Rakitic (£50m).

We were absolutely running away with it - progressing through the cup, 9 points clear of Atletico at the top of the league with Messi and Mertens on fire, with the only black mark being going out of a tough CL group in 3rd (Monaco 2nd, RBLeipzig 1st after beating us home and away - frustratingly most goals were a misplaced pass setting up a long ball over the top for Timo Werner). 

January brought in Inigo Martinez as cover for the defence (£28.5m) as Mascherano demanded to leave (£18.5m). I've decided to go a bit mad and train Umtiti as Busquets' heir so getting a player the calibre of Martinez as defensive cover on low (for Barca) wages was amazing. What was not was losing 5-1 to Atletico and losing Messi for 2 months. 

By the end of the season each of Messi, Mertens and Suarez had been out for 2 month stretches, and Dembele just isn't intelligent enough to fill the gaps - we had some good performances and Deulofeu scored one of the greatest goals I've ever seen on FM but just couldn't get enough results in the league due to Europa League fixture pile-up. Still, won the Copa del Rey and Europa League (last 4 was us, Real Madrid, Spurs and Liverpool - toughest I've ever seen). 

 

For 2018-19 so far have brought in Pepe Reina (free), Alexis Sanchez (free), Donny van de Beek (£25m rising to £45.5m), Philippe Coutinho (£80m rising to £90m) whilst shipping out Gerard Deulofeu (£19.5m), Andre Gomes (£50m), Jasper Cillessen (£9m), Sergi Roberto (£43.5m rising to £68m), and Munir (£1m with a £2m buy-back in case I ever have an injury crisis). Couldn't resist the outlandish idea of Coutinho as a wing-back. 

 

My big debate is whether or not to try and sell Ousmane Dembele now or hope his value rises closer to the extortionate price Barca payed for him by summer 2019, and also if I should renew Luis Suarez' contract or try to move him on and get Dybala with the potential to add Griezmann next year.

The tactic works outstandingly - but you do need the parts to make it work and the stupid amount of fixtures required to win the Copa del Rey and Europa League combined with big injuries to the MMS meant I could never keep a settled team. Still, 80 points (and 81 goals), a ton of clean sheets and 3 trophies (SuperCopa was also won) is a good base. 

Edited February 14, 2018 by zlatanera

[ferrarinseb]

5 hours ago, zlatanera said:

Yes. Neymar missing is a real bitch in terms of developing the squad - Ousmane Dembele refuses to get tutored by anyone and just isn't developing despite 35 starts and 16 substitute appearances - unlike Ozil it's going to take until the third season to get my squad fully assembled as Barca's finances seem worse than they were on FM17 - I've had to fight and fight with the board just to get 65% of a transfers back into my budget and that was after making £150million for the club.

 

First season brought in Mesut Ozil (£32m), Dries Mertens (£26.5m) and Aymeric Laporte (£58m) whilst shipping out Arda Turan (250k per month loan fee, £26.5m mandatory purchase), Thomas Vermaelen (£8m), Aleix Vidal (£17.75m) and Ivan Rakitic (£50m).

We were absolutely running away with it - progressing through the cup, 9 points clear of Atletico at the top of the league with Messi and Mertens on fire, with the only black mark being going out of a tough CL group in 3rd (Monaco 2nd, RBLeipzig 1st after beating us home and away - frustratingly most goals were a misplaced pass setting up a long ball over the top for Timo Werner). 

January brought in Inigo Martinez as cover for the defence (£28.5m) as Mascherano demanded to leave (£18.5m). I've decided to go a bit mad and train Umtiti as Busquets' heir so getting a player the calibre of Martinez as defensive cover on low (for Barca) wages was amazing. What was not was losing 5-1 to Atletico and losing Messi for 2 months. 

By the end of the season each of Messi, Mertens and Suarez had been out for 2 month stretches, and Dembele just isn't intelligent enough to fill the gaps - we had some good performances and Deulofeu scored one of the greatest goals I've ever seen on FM but just couldn't get enough results in the league due to Europa League fixture pile-up. Still, won the Copa del Rey and Europa League (last 4 was us, Real Madrid, Spurs and Liverpool - toughest I've ever seen). 

 

For 2018-19 so far have brought in Pepe Reina (free), Alexis Sanchez (free), Donny van de Beek (£25m rising to £45.5m), Philippe Coutinho (£80m rising to £90m) whilst shipping out Gerard Deulofeu (£19.5m), Andre Gomes (£50m), Jasper Cillessen (£9m), Sergi Roberto (£43.5m rising to £68m), and Munir (£1m with a £2m buy-back in case I ever have an injury crisis). Couldn't resist the outlandish idea of Coutinho as a wing-back. 

 

My big debate is whether or not to try and sell Ousmane Dembele now or hope his value rises closer to the extortionate price Barca payed for him by summer 2019, and also if I should renew Luis Suarez' contract or try to move him on and get Dybala with the potential to add Griezmann next year.

The tactic works outstandingly - but you do need the parts to make it work and the stupid amount of fixtures required to win the Copa del Rey and Europa League combined with big injuries to the MMS meant I could never keep a settled team. Still, 80 points (and 81 goals), a ton of clean sheets and 3 trophies (SuperCopa was also won) is a good base. 

You tried this as it is? I mean no changes in Tactic ?

[zlatanera]

Yeah the tactic was entirely untouched. I did my own throw-in routine which contributed perhaps 1 goal. 

Unlike Ozil I also haven't been able to retrain Iniesta at all, I guess because he starts out a year older SI made it impossible. 

One weird thing I noticed in this save also is that Messi is no longer a club legend, now just an icon. No idea how it happened. 

EDIT: He missed a penalty in the league decider against Atletico, then again in the cup final, then again in extra time in the cup final, then again in the cup final penalty shootout, then again in the EL final. I assume some good form would get him back to legend status. 

Edited March 10, 2018 by zlatanera

[DaLioS]

Comrade can you help me apply this in top eleven football manager? I'm obsessed with tiki taka and total football, I tried to copy the formation and instructions but it seems its not working. 😔

[AlexSwimmerboy7]

Is there a training schedule and a player training regime to follow?

[tsteyer]

I decided to try to put it into practice, I know a lot of people are already thinking about the 2019 version, but with some games, I can say that this tactic works, I have not made all the decisions yet, for example playing with Laca and Auba from the sides I had to put they with option attack, because I think both are not good at changing pass, and crosses. Since they had the option to attack, I changed the strategy and asked the team to run up the defense. I made these changes in the game against Manchester United, which we won from 4x1, we took a goal from Lukaku at the end of the game, when I was already testing some idea of trying to hold the score with this tactic, where I chose much lower in time and dribble less, but unfortunately in 10 minutes we took a goal, so I think it's not the best way to hold the advantage, I'll study other options yet.
I'm thinking of selling Laca and Auba and leaving the sides to Iwobi and Reiss, but I'm going to take advantage of close to the window closing and try with Auba and Lacan attacking the ends, no, I did not add any more instructions to them, same way.
But the great satisfaction is the performances of Ozil, who unfortunately got hurt, is playing what is expected of Ozil, which I never managed to make him play until today, because let's face it sucks, right? But in this tactic it is too much! Imparable!
Obviously, everything can still happen wrong, because I only played 4 games if I'm not mistaken, but I liked it and I'll stick with it until it works, we are exchanging on average 550 passes per game, the maximum we reached was 578 passes and the minimum 511 passes but if we maintain the average of 550 passes per game in a full season, we would reach the mark of 20,900 passes, incredible right?
I'm attaching a print of Ozil's form, he's playing a lot of the game, taking the last game against United that he has given two assists, in the other games since I took the save, he has scored goals in all. SENSATIONAL! Of four games that he played, he was better in three, in the fourth only was not the best again, because he left injured, but before leaving he secured a 9.0 rating.

[tsteyer]

After the post above, the light went out, and my last save was before the match against Manchester United, unfortunately.

[tsteyer]

I played again against united, won 2x1, unfortunately Auba and Laca had a worse view, Auba gave an assist and Laca made a penalty goal and then left injured in the second half.
The highlight and best of the game was Ozil with a goal, he was going to give an assist to a goal of Micky, but Baily made a penalty at Micky when Micky had kicked, the ball entered, but the judge scored the penalty, What is the advantage of the bid? hahaha, so Ozil in 4 matches had 4 best man of the match

Edited October 5, 2018 by tsteyer

[Egecann]

Anyone tried this on FM19?

[Fritz13]

23 hours ago, Egecann said:

Anyone tried this on FM19?

Used the base shape yes but with some tweaks to the tactic

[Egecann]

4 hours ago, Fritz13 said:

Used the base shape yes but with some tweaks to the tactic

What did you change and how did it perform? retain possesion is gone did you go for shorter passing or extremely short? And i maximized pressing (6 second rule)

[Fritz13]

5 hours ago, Egecann said:

What did you change and how did it perform? retain possesion is gone did you go for shorter passing or extremely short? And i maximized pressing (6 second rule)

Very short passing with slightly higher tempo

The number of opposition clearances that go straight to my WBs is crazy.

definitely a camping tactic as @Rashidi would say.

Edited March 9, 2019 by Fritz13

[kandersson]

Damn I miss these amazing @Ö-zil to the Arsenal! threads!

[Callummack]

Not started fm21 yet but I’m thinking of starting a Barcelona rebuild... I’m going to try recreate this tactic using youth as much as possible. 

[nidhar.ram]

@Callummack Me too. I am looking to build a fresh Barcelona side only retaining 3 or 4 players in the current squad.

Let me know what set-up are you going to go with..

[Callummack]

16 hours ago, nidhar.ram said:

@Callummack Me too. I am looking to build a fresh Barcelona side only retaining 3 or 4 players in the current squad.

Let me know what set-up are you going to go with..

Had my first go at it tonight after work played a few pre season games. Tried to copy @Ö-zil to the Arsenal! as much as possible but with the new added tactic options I’m not sure what will work and what won’t work. 
I will make sure to take a few screenshots when I’m feeling a bit more settled haha 

How are you finding it? 

[poobington]

Rather than start an entirely new thread and rehash a lot of the good information that is contained in the OP, I thought I would post my attempt a Guardiola recreation in FM 2022.

I have drawn heavily on the materials used by Ozil in the opening post and believe I have achieved a pretty faithful recreation so far, although I am alway open to tweaks to make it perform better within the match engine.

TACTIC:

DISCLAIMER: This tactic is in my opinion a project style tactic, where squad building and training are of equal importance to the tactic itself. A great squad may play well but without the PPMs that Ozil has mentioned in the OP especially for the key positions, (DM, MCL,MCR and F9) then this tactic will not play like Guardiola's Dream Team. This is most definitely not a plug and play tactic. 

Results: Possession and lots of it, defensively very sound. Scoring primarily from the wide players but if you have a world class False 9, they will also get on the end of chances and score plenty to. In my test with Leeds, Patrick Bamford was fantastic. Unfortunately I don't have the full game so the majority of my tests have been limited to games up to the Christmas Break, but in all of the teams (Leeds, Barcelona, Villarreal, Swansea) possession was high.

The thing I like most was that it was so simple to do, so I hope I can just explain what my thought process was.

Step 1 - Formation - simple 4-3-3 which was a mainstay of the side

Step 2 - Mentality and Team Instructions - Here I decided to start with these as these are effectively what governed the general philosophy of the side. Mentality wise I went with positive, as Guardiola expected to dominate teams and effectively suffocate them with probing play. I did consider attacking, but felt this was going into Bielsa territory and so opted against it. I have not tried this tactic with any other mentality so perhaps it might be even better with an Attacking one, who knows.

For the Team instructions, they are pretty self explanatory if you watched the Guardiola team:

In Possession:

• Much Shorter Passing - I want to see the short "Tiki Taka" passes
• Play Out of Defence - I want to see my defenders try to play out from the back, and the first line of the oppositions press, or carry the ball against deeper defenses.
• Low Crosses - I want to see cutbacks
• Slightly Higher Tempo - I want the tempo to be high to make my opponents run around and disrupt their shape

In Transition:

• Take Short Kicks - again I want to play out from the back
• Distribute to Centre Backs - same as above
• Counter-Press - if we lose the ball I want to win it back "6 second rule" Having said this I don't want to counter every time, but rather if the opportunity is on hence why counter is not ticked and neither is regroup( I want the players with their intelligence to decide when is the best chance to do so.

Out of Possession:

• Higher Defensive Line  - I want to peg back my opposition in their own half and these high pressing instructions achieve this.
• Much Higher Line of Engagement
• Much More Often

Step 3 Player Roles

The key to this tactic was getting the central diamond to work, this being the DM, MCL, MCR and F9. Initially  the MEZa was an APa, but their ended up being too much ball hogging and not enough penetration. 

In terms of wing play I wanted one attacking full back and one more reserved to mimic the Abidal and Alves relationship they had. My wingers are both told to stay wide to maintain width, but also to Roam from position allowing them to come inside when the opportunity allows. So far the most important thing for these positions is pace and a desire to run in behind. I have been experimenting with some PIs in my Swansea save and "Tries to beat offside trap" seems to be a great fit for the winger slots:

Player Instructions:

GK: Sweeper Keeper (Support): 
DCR: Ball-Playing Defender (Defend): (I wanted this guy to be able to consistently bring the ball out from defence and BPDs in this iteration of FM do this on a consistent basis is great
DCL: CD (Defend): N/A
FBR: Full Back (Support): N/A
DMC: Half-Back Defend (Defend): N/A
FBL: Wing Back Left (Support): N/A
MCL: Deep-Lying Playmaker (Support): N/A
MCR: Mezalla (Attack): Dribble More (I envisioned this player being my Iniesta beating men, getting into the box, overlapping the winger)
AMR: Inverted Winger (Attack): Roam From Position & Stay Wider
ST: False Nine (Support): Roam From Position & Shoot More Often ( a common problem is that False Nines don't score enough in FM so that's the reason for the shoot more)
AML: Inverted Winger (Attack): Roam From Position & Stay Wider

PPMs - I would just refer to the OP, but this definitely creates the style of play. Don't underestimate these.

Stats

Below are some stats I am currently achieving with Swansea.

[Skywalk3r83]

On 17/02/2022 at 12:50, poobington said:

Rather than start an entirely new thread and rehash a lot of the good information that is contained in the OP, I thought I would post my attempt a Guardiola recreation in FM 2022.

I have drawn heavily on the materials used by Ozil in the opening post and believe I have achieved a pretty faithful recreation so far, although I am alway open to tweaks to make it perform better within the match engine.

TACTIC:

DISCLAIMER: This tactic is in my opinion a project style tactic, where squad building and training are of equal importance to the tactic itself. A great squad may play well but without the PPMs that Ozil has mentioned in the OP especially for the key positions, (DM, MCL,MCR and F9) then this tactic will not play like Guardiola's Dream Team. This is most definitely not a plug and play tactic. 

Results: Possession and lots of it, defensively very sound. Scoring primarily from the wide players but if you have a world class False 9, they will also get on the end of chances and score plenty to. In my test with Leeds, Patrick Bamford was fantastic. Unfortunately I don't have the full game so the majority of my tests have been limited to games up to the Christmas Break, but in all of the teams (Leeds, Barcelona, Villarreal, Swansea) possession was high.

The thing I like most was that it was so simple to do, so I hope I can just explain what my thought process was.

Step 1 - Formation - simple 4-3-3 which was a mainstay of the side

Step 2 - Mentality and Team Instructions - Here I decided to start with these as these are effectively what governed the general philosophy of the side. Mentality wise I went with positive, as Guardiola expected to dominate teams and effectively suffocate them with probing play. I did consider attacking, but felt this was going into Bielsa territory and so opted against it. I have not tried this tactic with any other mentality so perhaps it might be even better with an Attacking one, who knows.

For the Team instructions, they are pretty self explanatory if you watched the Guardiola team:

In Possession:

• Much Shorter Passing - I want to see the short "Tiki Taka" passes
• Play Out of Defence - I want to see my defenders try to play out from the back, and the first line of the oppositions press, or carry the ball against deeper defenses.
• Low Crosses - I want to see cutbacks
• Slightly Higher Tempo - I want the tempo to be high to make my opponents run around and disrupt their shape

In Transition:

• Take Short Kicks - again I want to play out from the back
• Distribute to Centre Backs - same as above
• Counter-Press - if we lose the ball I want to win it back "6 second rule" Having said this I don't want to counter every time, but rather if the opportunity is on hence why counter is not ticked and neither is regroup( I want the players with their intelligence to decide when is the best chance to do so.

Out of Possession:

• Higher Defensive Line  - I want to peg back my opposition in their own half and these high pressing instructions achieve this.
• Much Higher Line of Engagement
• Much More Often

Step 3 Player Roles

The key to this tactic was getting the central diamond to work, this being the DM, MCL, MCR and F9. Initially  the MEZa was an APa, but their ended up being too much ball hogging and not enough penetration. 

In terms of wing play I wanted one attacking full back and one more reserved to mimic the Abidal and Alves relationship they had. My wingers are both told to stay wide to maintain width, but also to Roam from position allowing them to come inside when the opportunity allows. So far the most important thing for these positions is pace and a desire to run in behind. I have been experimenting with some PIs in my Swansea save and "Tries to beat offside trap" seems to be a great fit for the winger slots:

Player Instructions:

GK: Sweeper Keeper (Support): 
DCR: Ball-Playing Defender (Defend): (I wanted this guy to be able to consistently bring the ball out from defence and BPDs in this iteration of FM do this on a consistent basis is great
DCL: CD (Defend): N/A
FBR: Full Back (Support): N/A
DMC: Half-Back Defend (Defend): N/A
FBL: Wing Back Left (Support): N/A
MCL: Deep-Lying Playmaker (Support): N/A
MCR: Mezalla (Attack): Dribble More (I envisioned this player being my Iniesta beating men, getting into the box, overlapping the winger)
AMR: Inverted Winger (Attack): Roam From Position & Stay Wider
ST: False Nine (Support): Roam From Position & Shoot More Often ( a common problem is that False Nines don't score enough in FM so that's the reason for the shoot more)
AML: Inverted Winger (Attack): Roam From Position & Stay Wider

PPMs - I would just refer to the OP, but this definitely creates the style of play. Don't underestimate these.

Stats

Below are some stats I am currently achieving with Swansea.

I’m using your tactic and I must say it’s the best one I’ve used so far in FM22👌🏻 Played with it the last couple of days and tonight I played 5 matches, won 5, 22 goals scored and 0 conceded👌🏻

[poobington]

@Skywalk3r83 glad it’s working for you! What team are you using? Do you mind sharing some of the results you’re getting?

[Skywalk3r83]

On 22/02/2022 at 12:30, poobington said:

@Skywalk3r83 glad it’s working for you! What team are you using? Do you mind sharing some of the results you’re getting?

With Ajax, won 3x 5-0 and 2x 4-0. That’s including a game against Napoli 😄

[Skywalk3r83]

On 22/02/2022 at 12:30, poobington said:

@Skywalk3r83 glad it’s working for you! What team are you using? Do you mind sharing some of the results you’re getting?

I’ve just loaded up a new save with Ajax due to the new winter update. I have Haller as my striker, but he isn’t suited as a F9. I’ve changed it to a TF(s) and removed the TI low crosses. Any other tactical suggestions when playing with a TF? 

[poobington]

@Skywalk3r83 Not too sure mate. I have been debating making the wing back more attacking to have someone on the wings who is keeping width and firing in crosses more often. You could give that a go and see what happens. The other option is to make the more conservative fullback more adventurous. With the Half Back you will always have 3 players defending at the back.

[Skywalk3r83]

4 hours ago, poobington said:

@Skywalk3r83 Not too sure mate. I have been debating making the wing back more attacking to have someone on the wings who is keeping width and firing in crosses more often. You could give that a go and see what happens. The other option is to make the more conservative fullback more adventurous. With the Half Back you will always have 3 players defending at the back.

Thanks for your input! Thinking of both WB on attack and the IW on support without PI stay wider. Something like that. 

[poobington]

Personally I would keep it lopsided, and alway have one of the wingers on attack just simply you want them to be putting themself in the box in order to be potential goalscorers. My only concern is that if you make both IWs on support they will chiefly be creators.