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Neil Brock

Football Manager 2017 Release Date and Pre Purchase Details Announced

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9 minutes ago, Double0Seven said:

I can agree with the GK thing, but if I am correct, the missing animations has nothing to do with the match engine, but more of the limitations of how the 3D shows it in the game and how it shows how goals are scored.

 

As said again, would like you to back it up with proof if you claim 'too many goals from crosses'. A nice comparision from in game with a real life counterpart with almost the same scenario will do. Im willing to believe, but I want proof before I do. Havent noticed major issues with these things imo. 

 

Just now, DP said:

Yes animations need work too as they represent the engine. Without them we don't know how goals have been scored. The gk send off is an ME issue. 

As is the crossing. There have been plenty of threads on it and lots of stats that show too many crosses, narrow defence, over powered full backs on attacking mentality and an imbalance that leads to slightly too many goals being conceded on crosses. Especially at the back post/volley. It's not just a tactical issue as you have to play a certain way to attempt to stop it which has its own repercussions and also in the AI v AI it's apparent too. It was acknowledged by SI on a few occasions that it needs more work and it's certainly different from FM15. 

Surprised you haven't noticed it? 

It's subjective.  For every person that can show you stats that support the crossing issue, there is someone else who can show you goals from crosses are the minority of how they score/concede.

But people don't come on here and say "hey look, I don't score/concede many from crosses, must be a bug" do they? ;)

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Clearly they don't as there are more than enough crosses in the game :D

From what I've seen in the numerous threads, I'm not saying it's a bug, that's the wrong terminology. I think it's a balancing issue with last years engine. The only grumble from me was that it was deemed too risky to tweak in the third patch as those things are usually ironed out by that point. Though Neil did come on and say it could have too many knock on effects - so the issue was acknowledged. 

Anyway, that's all history. I'm sure it's been balanced far better in the current engine with the work the team would have put into it. 

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Miles responded to my tweet and said no Beta this weekend, as it won't be ready, so good bet is next week is what we have to look forward to. 

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2 minutes ago, KUBI said:

 

One of the new features is we can play as a cat?! Awesome my dreams have come true :D

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8 minutes ago, DP said:

Yes animations need work too as they represent the engine. Without them we don't know how goals have been scored. The gk send off is an ME issue. 

As is the crossing. There have been plenty of threads on it and lots of stats that show too many crosses, narrow defence, over powered full backs on attacking mentality and an imbalance that leads to slightly too many goals being conceded on crosses. Especially at the back post/volley. It's not just a tactical issue as you have to play a certain way to attempt to stop it which has its own repercussions and also in the AI v AI it's apparent too. It was acknowledged by SI on a few occasions that it needs more work and it's certainly different from FM15. 

Surprised you haven't noticed it? 

Plenty of threads but they tend to go round in circles rather than getting to the bottom of it.

SI said there was/is a slight issue made worse by some tactical choices.

I can only speak from what I see in my saves and that is that I have few issues.  In my current formations I have at least one attacking fullback, two attacking wingbacks in a 3232 and yet in over 20 seasons my fullbacks have had <5 assists each, even in the seasons that I won the league.  A few weeks ago I uploaded pics of the player ratings & assists for the league I was managing in and there was only one fullback in the top 20.  I'll add that I do nothing special to stop the opposition crossing either, I simply use a balanced tactic of various shapes over the course of a save.

The only thing I would say is I haven't managed in a league above 3* rep so it could be something seen more at higher levels but then plenty of people have been saying its an issue in the lower leagues as well.

I also want to add that when I do see goals from crosses I also see a large variety of types from various places & various finishes.

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12 minutes ago, FifaBing said:

Miles responded to my tweet and said no Beta this weekend, as it won't be ready, so good bet is next week is what we have to look forward to. 

I was expecting it for this weekend after the feature announcement.. So, time to be a little more patient.. :rolleyes:

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This year is the first I have bought the standalone Touch version on steam.  A sign of the times as I have found myself always going classic / touch the last few years after begining on the full fat game. I play 2D pitch so as always the match engine is important that it reflects the choices of tactic in the best possible way :) 

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1 hour ago, DP said:

Yes animations need work too as they represent the engine. Without them we don't know how goals have been scored. The gk send off is an ME issue. 

As is the crossing. There have been plenty of threads on it and lots of stats that show too many crosses, narrow defence, over powered full backs on attacking mentality and an imbalance that leads to slightly too many goals being conceded on crosses. Especially at the back post/volley. It's not just a tactical issue as you have to play a certain way to attempt to stop it which has its own repercussions and also in the AI v AI it's apparent too. It was acknowledged by SI on a few occasions that it needs more work and it's certainly different from FM15. 

Surprised you haven't noticed it? 

I have not noticed the crossing issue DP, as I have said in a previous post in the demo noticed it all the time but in the full game fairly recently purchased not yet noticed it and no I don't play in a certain way to stop it, just adjust my tactics to suit my players and to counter the opposition.  I am nine games into a season and I have not had one goal scored from a back post volley

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13 hours ago, KUBI said:

 

Where will this be shown? Youtube? 

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32 minutes ago, tyro said:

Where will this be shown? Youtube? 

Probably be a link from the Football Manager Twitter account. It'll be on here within minutes though if you don't have Twitter.

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Okay, since I've criticised before, it's only fair to come back here and praise the fact the features are coming out before the 14th. It's only one day, but still, the option is there to take the discount for those who are waiting to see what the game is like.

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Just pre-ordered using my 20% steam discount but i have one question.

We get the beta before release, bet will obviously allow the full game, but can we also play fm touch as a beta? found myself playing FM Touch more and more so wouldnt mind playing the beta as FM touch ready for when it gets released on tablets.

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15 hours ago, herne79 said:

 

It's subjective.  For every person that can show you stats that support the crossing issue, there is someone else who can show you goals from crosses are the minority of how they score/concede.

But people don't come on here and say "hey look, I don't score/concede many from crosses, must be a bug" do they? ;)

Actually it's not.  The bug isn't the statistical amount of crosses.  The bug is the 3D representation where clear crosses seen watching the match are classified as passes in the post match analysis.

I've had games where my full back has assisted in 3 or 4 goals, all visually from crosses, but the stats tell me none of my goals came from crosses.

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7 minutes ago, GSevensM75 said:

Actually it's not.  The bug isn't the statistical amount of crosses.  The bug is the 3D representation where clear crosses seen watching the match are classified as passes in the post match analysis.

I've had games where my full back has assisted in 3 or 4 goals, all visually from crosses, but the stats tell me none of my goals came from crosses.

Herne is right.

It is subjective, the issue is down to the very narrow position full backs would occasionally take, allowing crosses in more easily if/when they did.

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1 hour ago, Swillo said:

Probably be a link from the Football Manager Twitter account. It'll be on here within minutes though if you don't have Twitter.

Thank you.

11 minutes ago, sufcdan said:

Just pre-ordered using my 20% steam discount but i have one question.

We get the beta before release, bet will obviously allow the full game, but can we also play fm touch as a beta? found myself playing FM Touch more and more so wouldnt mind playing the beta as FM touch ready for when it gets released on tablets.

Last year, you were able to play FM Touch in the Beta, so I assume it will be the same this year.

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24 minutes ago, noikeee said:

Okay, since I've criticised before, it's only fair to come back here and praise the fact the features are coming out before the 14th. It's only one day, but still, the option is there to take the discount for those who are waiting to see what the game is like.

I fully agree.

Edited by fabioke

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23 minutes ago, GSevensM75 said:

Actually it's not.  The bug isn't the statistical amount of crosses.  The bug is the 3D representation where clear crosses seen watching the match are classified as passes in the post match analysis.

I've had games where my full back has assisted in 3 or 4 goals, all visually from crosses, but the stats tell me none of my goals came from crosses.

But again this is down to opinion.

Whats a cross?  different people have different opinions.

From a fullback is a diagonal ball into a forwards feet in the box a cross?

Is a pull back from the byline a cross?

What if the player is inside the 18 yard box?

What about a square ball across the six yard box?

What if that square ball is a 10 yard chip to the far post?

 

Like anything some are obvious and most people would agree but there are also a lot of grey areas where the answer isn't as clear.

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11 minutes ago, Barside said:

OPTA's definistion is unambigious - 

  • Cross - a pass from a wide position into a specific area in front of the goal

http://optasports.com/news-area/blog-optas-event-definitions.aspx

Exactly, you might argue "crosses are subjective" but if OPTA measures crosses one way and FM measures them in another, then if the numbers match that might actually not be good.

But I haven't looked in any detail to know if there's really any problem with how FM records assists as crosses or passes.

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15 minutes ago, Barside said:

OPTA's definistion is unambigious - 

  • Cross - a pass from a wide position into a specific area in front of the goal

http://optasports.com/news-area/blog-optas-event-definitions.aspx

I disagree that it is totally unambigious if I'm honest.

"A pass from a wide position to a specific area in front of goal" does leave a little open to interpretation.

Whats a wide position? personally I would probably consider using the lines of the 18 yard box as the cut off.  What about vertically though, how far back down the pitch do you go before a cross becomes something else (Using Opta's definitions this could be a launch, chipped pass, through ball or even just a normal pass)?  Again do they use the 18 yard box as the cutoff?

I would say though you could never get a description that totally unambigious as you'll always get grey areas in something like this.

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23 minutes ago, noikeee said:

Exactly, you might argue "crosses are subjective" but if OPTA measures crosses one way and FM measures them in another, then if the numbers match that might actually not be good.

But I haven't looked in any detail to know if there's really any problem with how FM records assists as crosses or passes.

The numbers didn't match, when I analised a full seasons data on FM16 the average cross attempts per game were much higher in FM with the data showing sides that had the fewest cross attempts in FM almost matching the numbers posted by teams that had the most cross attempts irl.

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3 minutes ago, Barside said:

The numbers didn't match, when I analised a full seasons data on FM17 the average cross attempts per game were much higher in FM with the data showing sides that had the fewest cross attempts in FM almost matching the numbers posted by teams that had the most cross attempts irl.

How did you get early access to FM17? :D

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5 minutes ago, Barside said:

Typo, easy one to make considering this thread is supposed to be about FM17 & not 16.

I know, just trying to lighten up the mood for a second here. :D

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I may have handed in my Moderators badge but if it gets everyone off the circular discussion of crossing in FM16 I'll run a season on full detail & PM those who've been discussiing it the numbers.

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So i just recieved an email saying ive been selected to go down to the pro direct store tomorrow for a live q and a with features reveal, wonder if it will be worth it?

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20 minutes ago, Barside said:

I may have handed in my Moderators badge but if it gets everyone off the circular discussion of crossing in FM16 I'll run a season on full detail & PM those who've been discussiing it the numbers.

Say it ain't so. When did this happen?

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6 minutes ago, forameuss said:

Well with that positivity, they've clearly picked the right guy

:D i didnt mean it like that, i cared enough to send the email to try to get tickets so i am up for it just no idea what to expect.

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1 hour ago, Chuck_thered said:

:D i didnt mean it like that, i cared enough to send the email to try to get tickets so i am up for it just no idea what to expect.

I did wonder if my post sounded a bit harsh, so glad you took it like you did.  

It would be interesting to see what questions get asked.  

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This is for some like myself who are keen to know when the features will announced; 

 

FM17.jpg

Edited by Prim47

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3 hours ago, Prim47 said:

This is for some like myself who are keen to know when the features will announced; 

 

FM17.jpg

Woohoo I am just purring with delight. 

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I feel naughty asking....

Does anyone know or read somewhere if SI have balanced the crossing issue some users encotured? Or perhaps someone from SI could answer my question? 

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7 minutes ago, Weller1980 said:

Does anyone know or read somewhere if SI have balanced the crossing issue some users encotured? Or perhaps someone from SI could answer my question? 

I'm sure that a lot of people who will play the public beta will posting feedback about the match engine - just wait until the public beta is released. You may also watch the new features video, which will be released tomorrow evening.

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following this thread i really get annoyed by the crossing-complaints. Having played with various different tactics, and more than once having failed, i just can't see that crossing is the big issue here. The game struggled with fullback, both in offense (too effective) and in defense (unreliable), but that affects not just crossing but other areas too and it doesn't determine your playstyle at all. If your tactic is built up soundly and has the right player material it won't fall apart because of crossing.

 

What i personally hope for, but if i interpreted some posts correctly it won't be adressed too much, is a training revamp. It's one of the most important aspects in football in terms of building up a team and a cohesive style but also, and this is what i find lacking, in selecting your squad and assessing what form players have. The way it's done is very simplistic, and i find not too realistic. Sadly i can't propose any solution, since of course it has to be a system that both makes training more complex and important, without further increasing micromanagement. But i hope that Si will put thought into this, maybe for Fm17, and if not for other versions of the game.

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If you pre-ordered a physical copy of FM17 as opposed to Steam, is there anyway to get access to the beta?

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19 minutes ago, LFC91 said:

What the time for the game revealing?

Will we have any streams for this?

8pm BST.

I suppose there will be a Youtube video. 

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1 hour ago, LFC91 said:

What the time for the game revealing?

Will we have any streams for this?

Quote

 watch the new features video on the Football Manager website and watcch the Live Q&A on the Football Manager Facebook page from 9pm BST. We'll be taking questions from Twitter and you can participate using the #AskFM17 hashtag anytime before or during the broadcast. 

http://www.footballmanager.com/news/football-manager-2017-live-event

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1 hour ago, managerdude_66 said:

 

8pm BST.

I suppose there will be a Youtube video. 

I Hope so... Can't watch it live, but the new features or the youtube video will be link here later tonight.

I'm happy now that we are going to learn about the new features today, before the promotion is over. Sure the two are not related, but that is what a lot of consumer base here asked for. Here's hoping that we have a lot to listen from Miles about the new features. Cheers!

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1 minute ago, zigaliro said:

8pm or 9pm? Now im confused.

9pm according to the FM website

 

2016-10-13_09-33-33.jpg

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Hopefully it will be confirmed before tonight, so that I am not endlessly searching the net for the right link thinking it is 8pm when it is actually 9pm.

Hope SI can make this distinction clear for us all.

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