Football Manager 2014 - Update 14.2.2 - Feedback Thread

[sirgiorgio]

Manager.

Past experience: professional footballer

Nationality: Italian

2nd Nationality: Australian.

Club: Millwall.

Knowledge after one full season:

Italy: 100%

Australia: 50%

England: 1% !!!!

Is it a bug or something? I'd expect my knowledge of Italy and Australia to drop, but after 60 matches played in England I think I should know two or three things about English football...

[stevech]

Short corners need to be improved (I think there are threads about this at the bugs section): the player doesn't come closer enough and often it's man-marked by the opposition :confused:

[Dagenham_Dave]

I hope the people moaning about poor first touches are watching the Frankfurt-Porto Europa League game just now, and Jackson Martinez's performance in particular. If a player at that level had as many bad touches as Martinez has had on FM, there'd be meltdown on here

[RTHerringbone]

Short corners need to be improved (I think there are threads about this at the bugs section): the player doesn't come closer enough and often it's man-marked by the opposition :confused:

They need the element of surprise. You're better off staying on Mixed and asking one player to Offer Short Option - no issues for me with them set like that.

If your team does the same thing, all the time, they get sussed out. Variety is key.

[stevech]

I hope the people moaning about poor first touches are watching the Frankfurt-Porto Europa League game just now, and Jackson Martinez's performance in particular. If a player at that level had as many bad touches as Martinez has had on FM, there'd be meltdown on here

One match is not the rule, it's the exception.

[stevech]

They need the element of surprise. You're better off staying on Mixed and asking one player to Offer Short Option - no issues for me with them set like that.

If your team does the same thing, all the time, they get sussed out. Variety is key.

Sure it is but the player who is supposed to come closer sits almost near the penalty box and this is why is praticaly being man-mark. That's not coming closer

[Jimbokav1971]

There's a great hair pack that deals with that and includes all manner of hair styles (head and facial) - it's called OLT Expanded Hair Pack v4.0 - a search on the forums should get you a link. Very few baldie regens now.

I have seen that actually and it looks great, but I am not keen about downloading any add-ons at all never mind about 3rd part add-ons.

If whoever created it can do something like that, then why can't SI include something of that quality in the game, (or at the very least just make sure that what they have done already actually works).

[forameuss]

I have seen that actually and it looks great, but I am not keen about downloading any add-ons at all never mind about 3rd part add-ons.

If whoever created it can do something like that, then why can't SI include something of that quality in the game, (or at the very least just make sure that what they have done already actually works).

I think their view might be (and nothing concrete on this btw) that if the community can do it, then why should they do it themselves? All they'd be doing is duplicating work, so I don't really see much point in them doing it themselves. Maybe it's on their list to do, but wouldn't be surprised if it's one of the things they're happy to let the community run with.

[Jimbokav1971]

I think their view might be (and nothing concrete on this btw) that if the community can do it, then why should they do it themselves? All they'd be doing is duplicating work, so I don't really see much point in them doing it themselves. Maybe it's on their list to do, but wouldn't be surprised if it's one of the things they're happy to let the community run with.

I think you are bang on, but then if they take that attitude then where does it end?

[OxfordUnitedFC]

I think their view might be (and nothing concrete on this btw) that if the community can do it, then why should they do it themselves? All they'd be doing is duplicating work, so I don't really see much point in them doing it themselves. Maybe it's on their list to do, but wouldn't be surprised if it's one of the things they're happy to let the community run with.

I would agree with that, the pack that i've just downloaded must have had so many hours of work put into it. I don't think SI would want to pay for this to be done when they know we can just download it in 60 seconds or so if we want it.

[rp1966]

If whoever created it can do something like that, then why can't SI include something of that quality in the game, (or at the very least just make sure that what they have done already actually works).

It's the kind of obvious failing that everyone notices immediately they get the first batch of new youth players, so how could it possibly get missed in testing? It is also, along with some of the other more blatant bugs, something that should be addressed quickly.

Database updates are a separate concern, but you would have thought having a delivery system like Steam would encourage a more agile development process with frequent small code changes rather than huge 2 month gaps and the potential for 4.3 to have similar balance issues to 4.2 caused by a multitude of changes going in at once.

[forameuss]

I think you are bang on, but then if they take that attitude then where does it end?

Well not everything can be created by the community. I could completely see their viewpoint if they don't want to spend time making skins when there are some very talented people out there doing it perhaps better than they could. It also gives far more variety. But the fact remains that it's only really cosmetic things (plus the db) that can be changed by the community. The core of the game will always be fixed.

[forameuss]

It's the kind of obvious failing that everyone notices immediately they get the first batch of newgens, so how could it possibly get missed in testing? It is also, along with some of the other more blatant bugs, something that should be addressed quickly.

Database updates are a separate concern, but you would have thought having a delivery system like Steam would encourage a more agile development process with frequent small code changes rather than huge 2 month gaps and the potential for 4.3 to have similar balance issues to 4.2 caused by a multitude of changes going in at once.

What exactly is failing in testing? That the regens "don't look good"? How is that a failing? It's an annoyance at best.

Having smaller updates regularly would cause just as many, if not more, issues on our end, and probably make SI's work life infinitely worse. It also makes it hard to put lines in the sand and gather varied feedback over the periods between updates. The time for the testing of the updates is also a massive factor. They do it exactly the way they should.

[rp1966]

What exactly is failing in testing? That the regens "don't look good"? How is that a failing? It's an annoyance at best.

No, that an obvious graphical bug - that regens are being displayed without their hair - wasn't spotted and/or addressed. The fact that a user can have this working makes it even worse as it cannot be a major fix.

The expanded range of the graphics that is supplied in the pack is another issue and reflects the dedication of community content you see in many games. But for SI not to deal with virtually every newgen being a baldie is pretty slack. Maybe it was picked up in testing and they decided not to include a fix in one of the patches so far because it is just cosmetic, but on top of everything else it makes you wonder what is going on. Too ambitious with the change list between versions? Poor testing? Testers too close to the developers? Complexity now at a level where the effect of changes no longer has clearly predictable outcomes?

Having smaller updates regularly would cause just as many, if not more, issues on our end, and probably make SI's work life infinitely worse. It also makes it hard to put lines in the sand and gather varied feedback over the periods between updates. The time for the testing of the updates is also a massive factor. They do it exactly the way they should.

The key phrase was agile development - it is a methodology. Small, frequent updates; shorter testing times; less to go wrong in each change. From the gamer's point of view it would mean incremental changes to the way the ME plays rather than moving to a new version and finding significant changes in the effectiveness of different tactical strategies - which really you should only see if when a new generation of ME is introduced.

[forameuss]

The key phrase was agile development - it is a methodology. Small, frequent updates; shorter testing times; less to go wrong in each change. From the gamer's point of view it would mean incremental changes to the way the ME plays rather than moving to a new version and finding significant changes in the effectiveness of different tactical strategies - which really you should only see if when a new generation of ME is introduced.

I know what agile development is, in fact I'm involved in it on a daily basis. I'm still not convinced it would work well for FM. If the tactical strategy is sensible enough, then no ME update will change how effective it is. The ones that exploit the ME, that's another story, but is hardly a bad thing. Plus, there is absolutely no guarantee that smaller updates wouldn't do exactly the same. Some will claim it does no matter what, placebo or not.

[stevech]

I think we all can recognize a few issues / problems, even SI has recognized it and they are working on a fix. But as for issues you have mentioned, sorry mate, those aren't bugs and if you rely on those to argument that the game is broken, well, you are simply wrong.

The only issue I would agree with is with players taking too long to react when they have to defend.

[CityAndColour]

The best thing about the add-on hair pack is that if you get a great newgen through with awful hair, you can change it.

[jac4121993]

I barely ever see my players take long shots. I've seen my players do plenty of ridiculously stupid stuff (all reported on the bug forum) but pointless long shots isn't one of the things I see. I should probably get back into my save, I haven't really played the game in over a month. I'm only 7 league games into the first season too!

[themadsheep2001]

I barely ever see my players take long shots. I've seen my players do plenty of ridiculously stupid stuff (all reported on the bug forum) but pointless long shots isn't one of the things I see. I should probably get back into my save, I haven't really played the game in over a month. I'm only 7 league games into the first season too!

Yeah, I remember you brought up some good stuff, kudos

[forameuss]

The only time I saw some really awful shots was when I was managing lowly Clyde. The strikers used to shoot inside the box, but a lot of them went out for a throw in. Of course, that was more down to the team being absolute dross than anything else.

[Sussex Hammer]

Agree with some of the defending especially when defending deep. Very difficult to play 19th century football in FM !! ;-) Long shots can be an issue with certain formations but it's usually the wingers or lone CF who seem to have the issue. Partly I think because lone strikers on the whole don't seem to have brains!! A "simple" chest, head or pass back to an oncoming midfielder seems a chore at times and in a race with a defender 1 on 1 with the keeper a long shot usually occurs before reaching the penalty area! Mind you too many long shots have been an issue for years I always just turned them off in previous incarnations.

[jac4121993]

The only time I saw some really awful shots was when I was managing lowly Clyde. The strikers used to shoot inside the box, but a lot of them went out for a throw in. Of course, that was more down to the team being absolute dross than anything else.

Not directly related, but something that made me rage (I reported it a fair while back now). One time my winger won the ball inside our own half after we had defender a corner. He took the ball and started running towards the opposition's goal, clean through (no defenders within at 20 yards of him, they only had one back for the corner - always a bad idea). Instead of continuing to run towards goal (on his stronger foot), after 40 yards out, under no pressure, he decides to cut onto his weaker foot and start dribbling to his team mate running towards goal with him and then passes to him, despite him being a couple of yards ahead of him. Offside flag goes up.

I set up to counter attack and you do that?! I seriously could've smashed something after seeing that happen. I honestly didn't think having only 8 Decisions could make you do something THAT ridiculous.

[Cougar2010]

1) Defenders are absolutely pathetic. They just don't defend. It takes them a really long time to make a tackle. Even if they have high tackling stats. Often they just run away from the ball like idiots. It's comical..... If the game was free but I spent $60 on this mess.

I would guess you have them set on "Defend" duty which is a low mentality and encourages a player to stay between the ball & goal and not dive into a tackle until he has to.

Try a more aggressive duty and they do tackle.

Also worth noting tackling isn't how much they tackle but how good they are at it.

2) Long shots are just absurd. I don't care what you try as far as your "tactics". Because I tried everything. If you are playing a game where you are the superior team. You are going to take a ton of stupid, pathetic, pointless, never-going-to-score-a-goal long shots. I've never seen one connect. Most aren't even on target. But they just keep on taking them, over and over and over and over and over. You get to the point where you start to Curse at the monitor. It's BAD!

Telling you its your tactics sounds like a broken record but giving your team time on the ball with a lower team mentality and more passing options going forward through the use of a mix of support/attack duties and good role choices will significantly reduce the "Shoot because I can't follow your instructions & haven't got another option" shots.

3) The games themselves are just a lottery. It doesn't seem like the player really ever has a good chance of winning. Even if he has a better team. The other team will make some random play and score a goal. And there it is. You just had 16 shots (13 off target because they were #2 stupid long shots), yet it takes something to happen and suddenly you're losing. And this happens all the time, not just here and there. You are completely out of control and are typically on the losing side. It doesn't make any sense.

Yet there are plenty of users who don't think its a lottery and achieve what you would expect or overachieve regularly.

4) The injuries. I've played 8 games of my new season. I have 11 injuries. ELEVEN! That's a whole starting roster. More then one injury a game. I admit this is probably a bit on the extreme side. But I remember this being a problem when the game first came out. Figured they would have patched this by now.

Injuries in general are lower than RL but a user can make the situation worse by some of the choices he makes inc tactics, training & signing injury prone players.

You should always expect some injuries, anything above that is either bad luck or made worse by user choices.

[CSF90]

Corners. That is all.

[Jimbokav1971]

Corners. That is all.

Do you have a problem with conceding them, or are you scoring too many?

[WelshMourinho]

I dare anyone to take on Mourinho and that 'Relies on set pieces' tendency, not even my defensive set pieces instructions can stop them. Lets not forget David Luiz and his long throws either haha.

Seriously though, for me corners aren't that bad since making my own instructions.

[Svenc]

Yes but FIFA Manager 2014 still exists as an alternative.

Yep, and you should try it: http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/385491-Sega-Sports-Interactive-and-FIFA-Manager?p=9446304&viewfull=1#post9446304 There's a demo for the 13 edition still, and 14 is pretty much a data update (Legacy Edition). Have fun, talk to ya later. (Bit of a pet peeve of mine, as in parts the non-availability of Football Manager in Germany meant that FIFA Manager used to be praised to high heaven's over here, even for its very much apparently highly dubious match days at the core of the gig).

That said, thanks for the heads up for FX Eleven, always curious what's happening in this fantastic genre of games (which usually isn't much anymore).

"The Attack strategy is best utilised when you have no other choice but to boot it up to your strikers in the hope that something happens" ... maybe a better wording. Makes me wonder what Overload is there for...

The players are already nervously urgent in their attacking play when you maximize patience with the tools at your disposal; Counter + ALL the possession- and patience oriented shouts. Why on earth would anyone really want -more- urgent and triggerhappy players at any point in the game?

It's apparent in some areas the game is a British developed one. However, with statements like these to me it is also apparent that experience is hugely based on one's own perception of the real sports and how it translates. With such a set-up you describe, there are tons of backwards and sideways passes played even when the ball has already entered the final third (provided they're an option by your formation, roles/duties). Play is arguably still a bit too readily moved out of defense though.

What I'm very much missing too is a "play through defense" team instruction as the opposing instruction to "run at defense", doesn't make much sense that this is taken out of the game either way. It's mostly usability, but you now have to access player instructions individually to encourage same-wise. Wingers readily engage in dribbling moves and take the ball forward regardless of mentality/strategy when they get the ball. But when I went two steps further rather than just encouraging patient build-ups and was trying to hold onto a lead and see out a game for the remaining minutes (nothing more) I had to take added micro-tweaking measures in FMs prior too. Such as: employing roles that don't readily through themselves into dribblings (wide mid fielders rather than wingers) or subbing someone like Ribery, who accordingly to his PPMs pretty much goes into frequent dribblings and carries the ball forward along with that run with the ball regardless. Naturally, keeping players from "running from deep" was a good idea then too either via duties or shouts such as "take a breather". If you want to keep the ball deep, you need players who stay there in the first place. Some of the in-game text regarding the strategies make it sound they'd handle this all for you, which is a bit unfortunate.

That said though, I recommend downloading the FM 2009 vanilla demo (really a small download), no updates, nothing. Ball retention was so easy in this one it is borderline comedic if you come right off some of the later iterations (you could play keep-ball all the time, in particular against weaker opposition), and a balance needs be struck, or one side is able to hold onto the ball infintely.

[BiggusD]

Yep, and you should try it: http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/385491-Sega-Sports-Interactive-and-FIFA-Manager?p=9446304&viewfull=1#post9446304 There's a demo for the 13 edition still, and 14 is pretty much a data update (Legacy Edition). Have fun, talk to ya later. (Bit of a pet peeve of mine, as in parts the non-availability of Football Manager in Germany meant that FIFA Manager used to be praised to high heaven's over here, even for its very much apparently highly dubious match days at the core of the gig).

That said, thanks for the heads up for FX Eleven, always curious what's happening in this fantastic genre of games (which usually isn't much anymore).

It's apparent in some areas the game is a British developed one. However, with statements like these to me it is also apparent that experience is hugely based on one's own perception of the real sports and how it translates. With such a set-up you describe, there are tons of backwards and sideways passes played even when the ball has already entered the final third (provided they're an option by your formation, roles/duties). Play is arguably still a bit too readily moved out of defense though.

What I'm very much missing too is a "play through defense" team instruction as the opposing instruction to "run at defense", doesn't make much sense that this is taken out of the game either way. It's mostly usability, but you now have to access player instructions individually to encourage same-wise. Wingers readily engage in dribbling moves and take the ball forward regardless of mentality/strategy when they get the ball. But when I went two steps further rather than just encouraging patient build-ups and was trying to hold onto a lead and see out a game for the remaining minutes (nothing more) I had to take added micro-tweaking measures in FMs prior too. Such as: employing roles that don't readily through themselves into dribblings (wide mid fielders rather than wingers) or subbing someone like Ribery, who accordingly to his PPMs pretty much goes into frequent dribblings and carries the ball forward along with that run with the ball regardless. Naturally, keeping players from "running from deep" was a good idea then too either via duties or shouts such as "take a breather". If you want to keep the ball deep, you need players who stay there in the first place. Some of the in-game text regarding the strategies make it sound they'd handle this all for you, which is a bit unfortunate.

That said though, I recommend downloading the FM 2009 vanilla demo (really a small download), no updates, nothing. Ball retention was so easy in this one it is borderline comedic if you come right off some of the later iterations (you could play keep-ball all the time, in particular against weaker opposition), and a balance needs be struck, or one side is able to hold onto the ball infintely.

It is not as much about ball retention and keeping possession as with decision-making in the final third. The reason almost everyone I have seen posting their tactics on these forums have been using those possession/patience-enhancing shouts (and often all of them together) is not because they have an idea of football that translates to a reliance on possession or a more continental style; it is because they are trying to remedy the unrealistic focus on getting off shots which -all- players in the game exhibits in every game, regardless of philosophy and strategy.

In every game I see, either my team or the opposition, or both, are taking one or two touches and then shoot whenever they get the ball in proximity of the 16-meter box. By using a vanilla 4132 tactic with only one Attack duty - an AF-A - and team settings to Standard and Balanced (no other instructions) I have minimized this problem, but it is still annoying and very boring to watch when the AI is doing it all the time and it pays off in the form of corner after corner which is evidently interpreted as "being under high pressure" from my defenders who resort to wild clearances in order to release some of that "pressure". This, of course, leads to loss of possession and prolonged "pressure", which again leads to another possession-oriented shout that disrupts the way the team is supposed to create chances - Play Out of Defense. The same happens to the AI of course, and the patterns are so easily recognizable that watching the matches becomes tedious.

I am NOT after re-creating the Barca style! Like (I suspect) 99% of the dissatisfied users in here, I just want my players to play football as a team and create chances for each other, and recycle possession without closing off an entire world of chance creation possibilities because of the many downsides of employing an extreme possession-oriented style of football. Attack as a strategy is according to the manual about being aggressive and attacking-minded but also about recycling possession in the defense. They don't, but they did in FM13. That's all that needs to be fixed, because the corner issues will disappear once team play is reintroduced.

[rp1966]

I know what agile development is, in fact I'm involved in it on a daily basis. I'm still not convinced it would work well for FM. If the tactical strategy is sensible enough, then no ME update will change how effective it is. The ones that exploit the ME, that's another story, but is hardly a bad thing. Plus, there is absolutely no guarantee that smaller updates wouldn't do exactly the same. Some will claim it does no matter what, placebo or not.

I don't think agile is necessarily most appropriate for the database handling part of the game, but the ME really does seem suited - it needs gentle incremental tweaks to fine tune it, not mass updates that change lots of variables at the same time. By changes in effectiveness of tactics, I mean shifts in the balance of defense vs attack, or effectiveness of certain roles e.g. wingers. A well-balanced tactic won't be broken by these shifts, but changes in the balance of the ME always mean that there is a chance of certain formations or strategies being more effective than others (for any given team) or that the effectiveness of a particular player in a role changes from good to mediocre - it works the other way too, but the point is that ME changes do alter the balance of the game and the more changes there are the greater the likelihood of a significant change in balance.

Anyway, I didn't particularly want to join the whinge bus - I am enjoying the game and have put more hours into FM14 than 13, but I do think something went very wrong between 14.1.4 and 14.2. All the acknowledged bugs were flagged on here within hours of release, so it makes you wonder how they got through.

[Clifton14]

Friday. I love Friday's

Please. I pray that it's out today. Can not wait for 14.2.2 to finally be laid too rest.

[Ackter]

Having used an Agile system for the last year, I have come to the conclusion that it's a system designed to fool people into thinking things are much easier to do than they actually are. When it comes down to it, the Sprint dates just go straight out the window.

[Sussex Hammer]

It is not as much about ball retention and keeping possession as with decision-making in the final third. The reason almost everyone I have seen posting their tactics on these forums have been using those possession/patience-enhancing shouts (and often all of them together) is not because they have an idea of football that translates to a reliance on possession or a more continental style; it is because they are trying to remedy the unrealistic focus on getting off shots which -all- players in the game exhibits in every game, regardless of philosophy and strategy.

In every game I see, either my team or the opposition, or both, are taking one or two touches and then shoot whenever they get the ball in proximity of the 16-meter box. By using a vanilla 4132 tactic with only one Attack duty - an AF-A - and team settings to Standard and Balanced (no other instructions) I have minimized this problem, but it is still annoying and very boring to watch when the AI is doing it all the time and it pays off in the form of corner after corner which is evidently interpreted as "being under high pressure" from my defenders who resort to wild clearances in order to release some of that "pressure". This, of course, leads to loss of possession and prolonged "pressure", which again leads to another possession-oriented shout that disrupts the way the team is supposed to create chances - Play Out of Defense. The same happens to the AI of course, and the patterns are so easily recognizable that watching the matches becomes tedious.

I am NOT after re-creating the Barca style! Like (I suspect) 99% of the dissatisfied users in here, I just want my players to play football as a team and create chances for each other, and recycle possession without closing off an entire world of chance creation possibilities because of the many downsides of employing an extreme possession-oriented style of football. Attack as a strategy is according to the manual about being aggressive and attacking-minded but also about recycling possession in the defense. They don't, but they did in FM13. That's all that needs to be fixed, because the corner issues will disappear once team play is reintroduced.

Good post this. The one thing I am noticing is that at the moment I have been trying to play the ME rather than playing football.

[zeeriboy]

I hope the people moaning about poor first touches are watching the Frankfurt-Porto Europa League game just now, and Jackson Martinez's performance in particular. If a player at that level had as many bad touches as Martinez has had on FM, there'd be meltdown on here

Do you deny there is something wrong with first touches as represented in the ME?

[MrPompey]

Having used an Agile system for the last year, I have come to the conclusion that it's a system designed to fool people into thinking things are much easier to do than they actually are. When it comes down to it, the Sprint dates just go straight out the window.

Agile isn't about completing the product in a quicker time, its about producing something in stages where at the end of each stage / sprint there is something tangible. Additional with Agile the end users get involved earlier, get earlier invlovment to find issues andsee the product being built.

Perhaps in waterfall we wouldn't see each FM until the following March but then the feedback is too late

I'm sure in the Beta development / test process it is in fact more Agile

[Dagenham_Dave]

Do you deny there is something wrong with first touches as represented in the ME?

It's not anywhere near as bad as people make out, that's for sure. The problem is that it's something that's never really been in the game before, somewhat unrealistically. So you now have a situation where poor touches happen now and again, and people are screaming blue murder.

And as far as I can remember, SI are only working on slightly improving the first touches of the better players as opposed to there being a widespread issue with them, so if you think you're not going to see any poor touches or mis-controlled balls after the next update, you're probably going to be disappointed.

[zeeriboy]

It's not anywhere near as bad as people make out, that's for sure. The problem is that it's something that's never really been in the game before, somewhat unrealistically. So you now have a situation where poor touches happen now and again, and people are screaming blue murder.

And as far as I can remember, SI are only working on slightly improving the first touches of the better players as opposed to there being a widespread issue with them, so if you think you're not going to see any poor touches or mis-controlled balls after the next update, you're probably going to be disappointed.

I want to be able to tell the difference between someone who has 18 for first touch and someone who has 12. Right now there is absolutely no discernible difference. With 14.2.2 I'm seeing too many of these bizarre first touches where the ball seems to be knocked a good 4-5 yards away from the player - and I'm definitely not the only person experiencing this. This is not the same as 'poor touches or mis-controlled balls.' I've also said before that these same players who seem to have lead feet are also perfectly capable of trapping a ball by the byline or sideline with superglue-like adhesive qualities. It's unrealistic and misrepresented, and that can't be denied.

[buddiemirren]

It's not anywhere near as bad as people make out, that's for sure. The problem is that it's something that's never really been in the game before, somewhat unrealistically. So you now have a situation where poor touches happen now and again, and people are screaming blue murder.

And as far as I can remember, SI are only working on slightly improving the first touches of the better players as opposed to there being a widespread issue with them, so if you think you're not going to see any poor touches or mis-controlled balls after the next update, you're probably going to be disappointed.

In your opinion obviously or are you actually calling I, and everyone else who has mentioned it liars? I wouldn't be surprised if you were right enough.

[RTHerringbone]

The first touch issue is acknowledged and is being fixed, but is it every single first touch? No.

That's probably what Dagenham_Dave is getting at. People tend to extrapolate limited input to form opinions.

[buddiemirren]

The first touch issue is acknowledged and is being fixed, but is it every single first touch? No.

That's probably what Dagenham_Dave is getting at. People tend to extrapolate opinion based on limited input.

Has absolutely anyone suggested that it's every single first touch and what is this extrapolate opinion based on limited input mean? Are you suggesting that after I watched over 250 games on full match highlights I've made more of the issue than exists for some nefarious reason?

[Dagenham_Dave]

I want to be able to tell the difference between someone who has 18 for first touch and someone who has 12. Right now there is absolutely no discernible difference

Pick two players in the same position with those stats that you see in real life on a regular basis. Can you hand on heart say that you notice on a regular basis the difference in solely the first touches between them over the course of a 90-minute match?

Similarly, have you genuinely been able to notice this on previous versions of the game? The difference in that single stat between someone on 18 and someone on 12 will be negligble at best. There are other attributes that go alongside that one that make the difference between a top class player and a more average one.

It's like people who complain that their midfielder with 12 for long shots has scored more long shot goals than their midfielder with 16 for that stat. Isolating single technical attributes is fairly pointless in the overall make up of a player.

In your opinion obviously or are you actually calling I, and everyone else who has mentioned it liars? I wouldn't be surprised if you were right enough.

Try responding to the post and not the poster, there's a good chap.

[buddiemirren]

Pick two players in the same position with those stats that you see in real life on a regular basis. Can you hand on heart say that you notice on a regular basis the difference in solely the first touches between them over the course of a 90-minute match?

Similarly, have you genuinely been able to notice this on previous versions of the game? The difference in that single stat between someone on 18 and someone on 12 will be negligble at best. There are other attributes that go alongside that one that make the difference between a top class player and a more average one.

It's like people who complain that their midfielder with 12 for long shots has scored more long shot goals than their midfielder with 16 for that stat. Isolating single technical attributes is fairly pointless in the overall make up of a player.

Try responding to the post and not the poster, there's a good chap.

Wow how ironic.

[Dagenham_Dave]

What's ironic about it exactly?

[jc1]

I must admit I get flabbergasted by some responses on here and the tone to which they respond to genuine posters who have issues with the game.

RTH posted in #5893 that there are issues with 1st touch which are being fixed, not all 1st touch but some, so it amazes me when certain posters knock people when they moan about this said 1st touch issue.

Could MODS please look into some of the personal digs in this and other threads as it's not needed.

[Jimbokav1971]

Dave. There are people that you can disagree with, (like Sussex for example), but with whom you can also have reasoned, articulate and intelligent debate. There is nothing wrong with 2 people, (or even 2 groups of people), seeing exactly the same thing from a very different perspective.

When however you come across someone who is unable to have reasoned, articulate and intelligent debate, then just stop trying. There are regular posters in this thread that have already made up their mind and absolutely nothing you or anyone else says is going to change that.

Maybe best to leave them to it eh.

[RTHerringbone]

Has absolutely anyone suggested that it's every single first touch and what is this extrapolate opinion based on limited input mean? Are you suggesting that after I watched over 250 games on full match highlights I've made more of the issue than exists for some nefarious reason?

I wasn't having a dig at you; you have provided two or three of the best feedback posts in this entire hellhole of a thread.

What I was saying was that an awful lot of the "feedback" in here has been people seeing the odd first touch, and then assuming that all first touches are knackered. Ergo long shots, injuries, etc. etc.

You don't need to be Miss Marple to find examples in this thread where that has been inferred by several different posters.

[BenSammy]

Considering the most scathing criticism get's deleted if it's deemed to not be constructive. I'd personally like to see the the people who simply post. Wooooooo SI, best FM ever posts, also get deleted, as they also, offer no constructive feedback.

At least the criticisms go some way to pointing out faults.

But, hey, we're egotistical beings and as such, like to be stroked and praised, hell, that's why I'm writing this, makes me fell like rogue badass.

Delete the nice stuff, it helps no one, just promotes complacency

EDIT: 'Tis a joke...However, a completely serious and legitimate point *Joking face with serious eyes*

[Sydney666]

Yep, and you should try it: http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/385491-Sega-Sports-Interactive-and-FIFA-Manager?p=9446304&viewfull=1#post9446304 There's a demo for the 13 edition still, and 14 is pretty much a data update (Legacy Edition). Have fun, talk to ya later. (Bit of a pet peeve of mine, as in parts the non-availability of Football Manager in Germany meant that FIFA Manager used to be praised to high heaven's over here, even for its very much apparently highly dubious match days at the core of the gig).

That said, thanks for the heads up for FX Eleven, always curious what's happening in this fantastic genre of games (which usually isn't much anymore).

I will never try FIFA Manager or probably even FX11, but I was just pointing out alternatives are there, without putting any bias into my answer.

I totally agree on the points put forward in that link you posted, it is why I stopped playing FIFA Manager in 2003 (when it was Total Club Manager)

I recently purchased FIFA14 for my son on PS4 for Christmas, and even there, the mindless play is clearly evident. We play on "single player" career mode and the players just pass sideways and backwards and no one wants to score. 95% of our games end 0-0 playing 6 min halves, and we had to bump it to 30 minute games (15 halves) just to see goals. Playing as a whole team is a different experience, but as a single player or as a manager FIFA fails miserably. It was actually better in 2013....

EA Sports have great animations and all, and quite frankly they pump a lot of money into that game for very little return (game wise for the real football fan) but they make a lot of cash and please all the kids who just want Nike boots and beat their friends on unrealistic ultimate team mode. I do wish that one day, a game would have good graphics and a good match engine, and I mean good. Right now we have either a good match engine and bad sound/graphics or decent graphics and a laughable match engine.

The end of the story is this... this genre as a whole has not come far enough in the last decade or two which is a disappointment to me, and a disjustice to football in general.

FM is the best manager game out there, but in my humble opinion it barely suffices my hunger for a top notch football simulation game. It needs to have a more fun element (more control elements like "classic" manager games such as be a chairman option, personal life, ticket price changes, stadium expansions and just more variety/novelty as optional modes) and better sound + graphics (sound hasn't improved in FM for over a decade and the match engine graphics are laughable. It literally still looks like a mid 90's game visually.), while keeping on track with its best features of today (good database, lots of leagues, indepth statistics, etc etc.

[Jimbokav1971]

Considering the most scathing criticism get's deleted if it's deemed to not be constructive. I'd personally like to see the the people who simply post. Wooooooo SI, best FM ever posts, also get deleted, as they also, offer no constructive feedback.

Seems pretty reasonable. Not sure how many there have been though in fairness.

[El Presidente]

Seems pretty reasonable. Not sure how many there have been though in fairness.

It's not as though SI employees post under different names saying how great the game is.

However, I'm back playing FM13. Not perfect but I for various reasons I do not like FM14.

I find it very annoying that my tactics panel will not stay on the custom set up and just keeps reverting back to default. (Quite a few pages do this)! Some columns on screens that you cannot alter are also too narrow and you can't read the information. Also winning 7-0 away to the leaders followed by a 4-1 home defeat with the same players and tactic to the bottom side??? "It's your tactics" is an easy cop out that I'm fed up of hearing.

So for these reasons and others I will play FM13 or Hearts of Iron 3, or even sim city or the sims.

[themadsheep2001]

I just don't understand why some people a) can't be civil, whether it's to each other or SI b) need to every small point into needless pitched battle c) seem to think there needs to be "sides". It's terribly boring and incredibly counter productive . Most of the feedback has been excellent (a fair few of you have been quite brilliant) and no doubt SI are grateful for that, but there are some users who don't want to follow the rules and ethos set out on this forum, and frankly we won't be having any more of that. So please cut it out. I hope I don't have to mention it again.