Football Manager 2024 Official Feedback Thread

[RDF Tactics]

10 hours ago, akkm said:

No one is saying it doesn't happen at all or it's non existent...I'm not sure where you formed that impression from...perhaps you've seen a frustrated user indulge in hyperbole but clearly that's not the case so there’s no need try to prove something that doesn't need proving .

I do think it’s great you’re trying to help here and it’s all very obvious things you’ve pointed out and I get more casual users mightn’t see those things so fair enough but unintentionally you’re clouding things a little for SI to draw proper conclusions here.

I broadened my point to mention creativity earlier rather than simply through balls but you've fallen into the 'its your tactics' fallacy.

It may come down to expectation or view of football but the issue I've talked about at length at times is 100% a match engine issue. I have said certain elements can be mitigated with some tactical tweaks/levers but overall it’s beyond contestation it’s a match engine issue with behaviours that aren’t being coded well.

Also, you pointing out 3 through balls in a match and concluding everything is ok with through balls and central play is doing a disservice to the issue and isn’t helping to resolve it. This is how conspiracy theorists operate. Essentially someone forms an impression about something and then frames everything through that lens and sees/extracts what they want to see with an example of something, ignoring the majority of information to reinforce their impression of something (bias overrides rationality if you will). I'm not for one second saying you're a conspiracy theorist by the way .

This is what you’re doing here by thinking it’s a tactical issue and something which can be resolved with tactical elements and seeing 3 through balls and saying…well there you go…but you’re missing the bigger picture overall and not observing patterns and making proper conclusions.

 

I’ve tested the match engine thoroughly using many variant tactics and tweaks. One example is observing closely and experimenting by managing both teams in a match (watching in full match mode) revealed issues with quality play and creative passing & movement. With one team I moved all players to the wings bar 2 up front…so essentially the centre is free from impediments that would prevent good central play so it takes any perception of ‘its your tactics’ out of it.

Some of the actual play that unfolds is just dreadful at times. I’ve done it with Liverpool and the way the team sets about to attack space trying to pass and move is legitimately bad too often. Sometimes the decision making and awareness of teams mates is shockingly bad. That’s not to say there isn’t any good play at all…there is absolutely good play for sure and good pass selection, through balls, good weighted passes at times and all that but overall you’ll see patterns that mean perceptions/opinions formed about the match engine can be somewhat illusory at times.

The main patterns from an attacking perspective are:

- The creative or even obvious pass isn't selected at times where it should be and supporting runs to provide options aren’t made. The final engine has been best of this year's iterations in terms of selecting pass when it’s on but it's still not good enough. The off the ball runs are not good enough either

- The attempt at a creative pass is played to feet more than it should be where it should be played slightly ahead/ahead into the path of the player to run on to. This is quite glaring when space big and small is there

- The angle of the pass can be off...it seems to favour more angled passes left or right rather than straighter passes vertically (along the ground)

- Lots of moves break down where a protective mechanism seems to kick in to have the move break down…be it sloppy control, bad pass choice, awful awareness of others around them etc but a pattern emerges to see issues are there.

This exercise shows that the match engine is not simulating fundamental footballing behaviours well enough to be on point… be it movement/pass selection at a basic level. If this is the case with an abundance of space then it’s even more compromised when normal tactics are employed. So elements of it are good but overall lots of examples of just bad play…far too many to be fair to suggest central play is good, let along adequate. That take would just be misguided.

 

Overall, of course there are lots of good and even great things in the match engine but central creativity & the ability of players to operate in there is 100% an issue and often is an issue with the engine. If you don’t see that then that’s fine but it’s still an issue nonetheless and 100% is not tactical on the whole. I don’t mean to sound harsh and I’ve seen you make some good posts…just not here taking the bigger picture into account as we keep seeing this issue crop up in FMs match engine over the years and some people defend it and feedback that it’s ok but on the whole for the integrity of the simulation…it’s not ok.

Can the engine produce some through balls…yes

Can the engine produce enough good quality passing & movement, ability to operate in tight spaces and good creativity…nope.  

As @XaW said each to their own…and I agree 100%...it should be a case of each to their own and each can garner what they want out of the engine being able to play whatever style they want but unfortunately that’s just not the case.

It’s misleading to suggest that it is and prevents the engine from being developed/enhanced as there are key pieces missing (not saying anyone is doing that intentionally) . These elements require improvement to make the simulation more versatile, more varied and most importantly…more realistic

Maybe I'm missing something because you clearly stated "it's a match engine issue" when someone brought up through passes. You said and quite clearly "you can't" when @Itego asked how to fix through balls to his AF. So you're replying that you can't fix the through ball issue to his AF. I replied how I do it. What's the issue with that?

Spoiler

Me then posting my tactic and showing how I do it isn't to just "prove you wrong" but also simply because the original person is asking for help. Therefore, posting my tactic and in-game screenshots of what he wants to achieve seems like a good idea to me.

I've also clearly mentioned central play can do with an improvement. When I call for things to be improved, I don't just claim things. I *try* to back my theory and send in my opinion. So, about central play and other things, I have reported many many times. If you read my comments here, you will very quickly realise I don't think the ME is perfect and faultless. I don't just say things loosely and I report it. So talking about not wanting to help the game, I spend so much of my free time sending in stuff. Quite literally. I'm sure you will not find many more customers actively attempting to communicate with SI to improve FM. And as you said, each to their own so why don't I have the right to disagree with you without it meaning I don't want to help the game? You will never find a comment of me saying FM is fine as it is. You'll see plenty of me suggesting things to improve the game. Trying to help. But be constructive it what I'm doing.

This thread is a perfect example. Rather than the person claiming it's broken etc, they posted a constructive thread. I and others tried to help. First, we made sure we tried many different combinations to get what he wanted. After not being able to achieve that, there was so much "evidence" to send in. I then sent it to SI and they saw it. That's what I picture what helping SI improve the ME looks like. SI now have more to work with.

What doesn't help SI is people just claiming things are a problem with no suggestions. Also, claiming you can't do things in the game when you can doesn't help the player.

As clear. "Personally, I'd like to see an improvement with ball retention in the central areas of the final 3rd. Allowing for more methodical chance creation".

Now, the person wanted his world-class striker to score goals. He wanted through balls. Why is it then bad to say "check your tactics"? Why is saying it can be your tactic such a negative thing? If he genuinely wants help which it seemed he did, he can take advice on how others are getting the same results he's asking for.

There are his questions. I then replied by showing my tactic and it happening in game. I showed those in game shots to back my original theory of attacking channels etc etc. 

Spoiler

Spoiler

 

Remember. To all his question posts about him asking for through balls, you went on to call it an issue with the ME and that he can't fix the through ball issues he's having. To me, and others, that looks clearly like you're saying either it doesn't happen or happen enough.

So actually, me showing it happening 3 times in one game is a good thing because it shows he absolutely can fix THAT particular issue. He never once mentioned anything else about operating in tight areas etc. Those things can do with an improvement. People and myself would agree. But, that was not the question the person asked and yourself claimed he can not fix the issue he's having. Hence my replies.

Through balls is the only thing I'm answering to. Simply, because you said he can't fix it. Maybe you didn't mean to. But, through balls is he wanted and that's what I wanted to help with.

Edited March 8 by RDF Tactics

[-Jef-]

On 05/03/2024 at 20:38, zeza said:

No response at all. NICE

You also haven't responded or got back to me with my reccomendations about focuses...NICE

[SHK-555]

11 hours ago, akkm said:

No one is saying it doesn't happen at all or it's non existent...I'm not sure where you formed that impression from...perhaps you've seen a frustrated user indulge in hyperbole but clearly that's not the case so there’s no need try to prove something that doesn't need proving .

I do think it’s great you’re trying to help here and it’s all very obvious things you’ve pointed out and I get more casual users mightn’t see those things so fair enough but unintentionally you’re clouding things a little for SI to draw proper conclusions here.

I broadened my point to mention creativity earlier rather than simply through balls but you've fallen into the 'its your tactics' fallacy.

It may come down to expectation or view of football but the issue I've talked about at length at times is 100% a match engine issue. I have said certain elements can be mitigated with some tactical tweaks/levers but overall it’s beyond contestation it’s a match engine issue with behaviours that aren’t being coded well.

Also, you pointing out 3 through balls in a match and concluding everything is ok with through balls and central play is doing a disservice to the issue and isn’t helping to resolve it. This is how conspiracy theorists operate. Essentially someone forms an impression about something and then frames everything through that lens and sees/extracts what they want to see with an example of something, ignoring the majority of information to reinforce their impression of something (bias overrides rationality if you will). I'm not for one second saying you're a conspiracy theorist by the way .

This is what you’re doing here by thinking it’s a tactical issue and something which can be resolved with tactical elements and seeing 3 through balls and saying…well there you go…but you’re missing the bigger picture overall and not observing patterns and making proper conclusions.

 

I’ve tested the match engine thoroughly using many variant tactics and tweaks. One example is observing closely and experimenting by managing both teams in a match (watching in full match mode) revealed issues with quality play and creative passing & movement. With one team I moved all players to the wings bar 2 up front…so essentially the centre is free from impediments that would prevent good central play so it takes any perception of ‘its your tactics’ out of it.

Some of the actual play that unfolds is just dreadful at times. I’ve done it with Liverpool and the way the team sets about to attack space trying to pass and move is legitimately bad too often. Sometimes the decision making and awareness of teams mates is shockingly bad. That’s not to say there isn’t any good play at all…there is absolutely good play for sure and good pass selection, through balls, good weighted passes at times and all that but overall you’ll see patterns that mean perceptions/opinions formed about the match engine can be somewhat illusory at times.

The main patterns from an attacking perspective are:

- The creative or even obvious pass isn't selected at times where it should be and supporting runs to provide options aren’t made. The final engine has been best of this year's iterations in terms of selecting pass when it’s on but it's still not good enough. The off the ball runs are not good enough either

- The attempt at a creative pass is played to feet more than it should be where it should be played slightly ahead/ahead into the path of the player to run on to. This is quite glaring when space big and small is there

- The angle of the pass can be off...it seems to favour more angled passes left or right rather than straighter passes vertically (along the ground)

- Lots of moves break down where a protective mechanism seems to kick in to have the move break down…be it sloppy control, bad pass choice, awful awareness of others around them etc but a pattern emerges to see issues are there.

This exercise shows that the match engine is not simulating fundamental footballing behaviours well enough to be on point… be it movement/pass selection at a basic level. If this is the case with an abundance of space then it’s even more compromised when normal tactics are employed. So elements of it are good but overall lots of examples of just bad play…far too many to be fair to suggest central play is good, let along adequate. That take would just be misguided.

 

Overall, of course there are lots of good and even great things in the match engine but central creativity & the ability of players to operate in there is 100% an issue and often is an issue with the engine. If you don’t see that then that’s fine but it’s still an issue nonetheless and 100% is not tactical on the whole. I don’t mean to sound harsh and I’ve seen you make some good posts…just not here taking the bigger picture into account as we keep seeing this issue crop up in FMs match engine over the years and some people defend it and feedback that it’s ok but on the whole for the integrity of the simulation…it’s not ok.

Can the engine produce some through balls…yes

Can the engine produce enough good quality passing & movement, ability to operate in tight spaces and good creativity…nope.  

As @XaW said each to their own…and I agree 100%...it should be a case of each to their own and each can garner what they want out of the engine being able to play whatever style they want but unfortunately that’s just not the case.

It’s misleading to suggest that it is and prevents the engine from being developed/enhanced as there are key pieces missing (not saying anyone is doing that intentionally) . These elements require improvement to make the simulation more versatile, more varied and most importantly…more realistic

 

The non existent or rare instances of threaded through balls is one of the main big reasons why I gave up on M.E 23.2 along with the poor decision making of players which I was hoping it would be tweaked for the winter update but they didn't touch it. It can be done because it's not an issue on 24.1.1.  and I don't need to play any special formation or use any special instructions it's simply innate feature in the engine and as a result you see beautiful goals and great passages of play. Players regularly play through threaded through pass's whether long or short regularly when there is space and most of the time wingers and fullbacks look for the man free in the box instead of shooting. On the current M.E I noticed players make illogical decisions in key areas of the pitch, in the final third they will shoot or keep running when there are players in better positions especially wide players and full backs. Then I noticed strikers would be starved of service because the creative midfields would either occupy their space or just make a run through on goal instead of passing. There's also the trajectory of the ball being too sharp, which is a marketed feature there is more bobble and random trajectory of the ball pre update. I don't know how SI can compare the two engines and reach the conclusion that the latter is more realistic to football, when every pass looks perfect and player behavior looks predetermined and there is even less dribbling and individualism  of players. For example I tested mbappe on pre update and he regularly makes dazzling dribbling runs to go past players. So will Rashford and I immediately know he's on the pitch capable of producing a moment of brilliance. On the current patch he will get the ball and the first option 90 percent of the time will look to pass the ball and will only do safety dribbles down the byline if there is space on the flanks but mostly he will plays like any generic player on the pitch.

Edited March 8 by SHK-555

[Kevinho7]

17 hours ago, RDF Tactics said:

Best to post your tactic either in the tactic forum for an actual discussion or maybe here for quick-fire replies (this thread is for feedback though so maybe not best received).

I'm currently creating a Man City tactic and whether I try Haaland as a PFa, AF or P, he just bags goals because the system makes sure he's the main threat, created space for him and plenty of supply.

This is the tactic.

His supply is both wingers, CM on support and Regista in DM. That's 4 creators.

CMa can, he has take more risks with passing but on attack, is there to be an added scoring threat so it's not just one player, but the main scoring threat has plenty of supply.

Making sure he has space, only one other player is moving into the channels (my CMs). So if LCM takes up one channel, Haaland can take up the other. Maybe limited channel space if two players are attempting to attack one channel. Or if they rotate with moving into a channel, would mean my ST won't always be moving into a channel if he's "channel sharing".

Wingers look to always open the channels by staying wide (attracting opposition FBs) - again, making more space for the striker to move and space exploit.

New video coming up? 👀

[XaW]

11 hours ago, akkm said:

No one is saying it doesn't happen at all or it's non existent...I'm not sure where you formed that impression from...perhaps you've seen a frustrated user indulge in hyperbole but clearly that's not the case so there’s no need try to prove something that doesn't need proving .

I do think it’s great you’re trying to help here and it’s all very obvious things you’ve pointed out and I get more casual users mightn’t see those things so fair enough but unintentionally you’re clouding things a little for SI to draw proper conclusions here.

I broadened my point to mention creativity earlier rather than simply through balls but you've fallen into the 'its your tactics' fallacy.

It may come down to expectation or view of football but the issue I've talked about at length at times is 100% a match engine issue. I have said certain elements can be mitigated with some tactical tweaks/levers but overall it’s beyond contestation it’s a match engine issue with behaviours that aren’t being coded well.

Also, you pointing out 3 through balls in a match and concluding everything is ok with through balls and central play is doing a disservice to the issue and isn’t helping to resolve it. This is how conspiracy theorists operate. Essentially someone forms an impression about something and then frames everything through that lens and sees/extracts what they want to see with an example of something, ignoring the majority of information to reinforce their impression of something (bias overrides rationality if you will). I'm not for one second saying you're a conspiracy theorist by the way .

This is what you’re doing here by thinking it’s a tactical issue and something which can be resolved with tactical elements and seeing 3 through balls and saying…well there you go…but you’re missing the bigger picture overall and not observing patterns and making proper conclusions.

 

I’ve tested the match engine thoroughly using many variant tactics and tweaks. One example is observing closely and experimenting by managing both teams in a match (watching in full match mode) revealed issues with quality play and creative passing & movement. With one team I moved all players to the wings bar 2 up front…so essentially the centre is free from impediments that would prevent good central play so it takes any perception of ‘its your tactics’ out of it.

Some of the actual play that unfolds is just dreadful at times. I’ve done it with Liverpool and the way the team sets about to attack space trying to pass and move is legitimately bad too often. Sometimes the decision making and awareness of teams mates is shockingly bad. That’s not to say there isn’t any good play at all…there is absolutely good play for sure and good pass selection, through balls, good weighted passes at times and all that but overall you’ll see patterns that mean perceptions/opinions formed about the match engine can be somewhat illusory at times.

The main patterns from an attacking perspective are:

- The creative or even obvious pass isn't selected at times where it should be and supporting runs to provide options aren’t made. The final engine has been best of this year's iterations in terms of selecting pass when it’s on but it's still not good enough. The off the ball runs are not good enough either

- The attempt at a creative pass is played to feet more than it should be where it should be played slightly ahead/ahead into the path of the player to run on to. This is quite glaring when space big and small is there

- The angle of the pass can be off...it seems to favour more angled passes left or right rather than straighter passes vertically (along the ground)

- Lots of moves break down where a protective mechanism seems to kick in to have the move break down…be it sloppy control, bad pass choice, awful awareness of others around them etc but a pattern emerges to see issues are there.

This exercise shows that the match engine is not simulating fundamental footballing behaviours well enough to be on point… be it movement/pass selection at a basic level. If this is the case with an abundance of space then it’s even more compromised when normal tactics are employed. So elements of it are good but overall lots of examples of just bad play…far too many to be fair to suggest central play is good, let along adequate. That take would just be misguided.

 

Overall, of course there are lots of good and even great things in the match engine but central creativity & the ability of players to operate in there is 100% an issue and often is an issue with the engine. If you don’t see that then that’s fine but it’s still an issue nonetheless and 100% is not tactical on the whole. I don’t mean to sound harsh and I’ve seen you make some good posts…just not here taking the bigger picture into account as we keep seeing this issue crop up in FMs match engine over the years and some people defend it and feedback that it’s ok but on the whole for the integrity of the simulation…it’s not ok.

Can the engine produce some through balls…yes

Can the engine produce enough good quality passing & movement, ability to operate in tight spaces and good creativity…nope.  

As @XaW said each to their own…and I agree 100%...it should be a case of each to their own and each can garner what they want out of the engine being able to play whatever style they want but unfortunately that’s just not the case.

It’s misleading to suggest that it is and prevents the engine from being developed/enhanced as there are key pieces missing (not saying anyone is doing that intentionally) . These elements require improvement to make the simulation more versatile, more varied and most importantly…more realistic

Respectfully, I disagree with a lot of what you are writing here. And while you are free to think what do you as well as write about it, I really don't see the issues you are seeing. This might be that certain tactical elements in the game doesn't work as one would expect, or that there are some misunderstanding in what things in the game does. I don't know, but I don't see the same issues you are describing here. Certainly, I see some of the sometimes, but not to the extent of it being a major issue, or a mistake by a player instead of the engine itself.

I see my players doing what I'm asking, breaking the lines, taking advantage of the opponents tactics, and creating space as I want them to. I'm still using the same tactic I've posted a few times here now, and I see things like this:

They press a lot, and my left central midfielder receives a pass and quickly passes it on to my other midfielder who pulls out the marker on my striker who gets the ball all alone on the edge of the box. An example of a central midfielder breaking the line and pulling a defender away to open space for my striker. Later in the same game I also see this:

My ball playing defender sees my IF-S offering an option and takes it, the IF who has high (16) flair and mid-high dribbling (14), then gets by his man and runs through. A key point is that in the top right, you see my striker occupying a defender, as well as another breaking the line run from my midfielder. Also the my left back is very high up the pitch to occuy their right back too. All those players make sure the IF is 1v1 against the defender and makes it possible to run through on goal after beating his man. A simple pass yes, but it's the movement of the striker, central midfielder, and left back that sets up the 1v1 in the first place.

My goal is to set up many of my players to break the lines and make sure the opposition cannot stay in their shape if they want to follow my players. Both in the game, as well as in real life, multiple simultaneous movements are the hardest to defend against, and pulling a defense our of shape is key to create space. But whenever someone makes a run, you also need another player to use the space. In the same way that the latter gif showed, my striker _could_ have run into the space left by the defender following my IF.

Things like these are why I like the match engine much more this year, as I can see what I'm trying to get to happen actually happen. Do I see this fail many times? Sure, but you can't expect it to happen perfectly every time. The fact that I can set up these things in my mind and translate them into the match engine cannot be anything other than a good thing for me. But once again, you might have things you want to see that you cannot replicate in the game, I don't know. I can only say give examples and feedback on how things work for me in my saves.

And just to bring this back around, I can also see the opponents taking advantages of my tactics, because I do leave a very big gap behind my left back, this is a tradeoff I do willingly, but I see many counters going down that way, which is partly why I love the BMW as the left central midfielder to cover it slightly at least.

[themadsheep2001]

The other thing as well is that the number of through balls per game for a team isnt that high - having gone through the Premier League, Serie A, La Liga, Eredivsie, Bundesliga, Ligue 1 and Portugal Liga, the highest is 3 through balls per game, and majority of teams in each of those leagues (it varies slightly) are hitting 1 per game. 

Central play could do with a slight more focus but the number of threaded passes isnt all that high, so any tweak should be slight

[RDF Tactics]

Most of us  just think differently. Like one saying you shouldn’t have to use a set or instructions and roles to achieve something particular is a bit baffling to me. I thought that was the whole point it tactic creating. But others will think different.

as always, it’s probably best to actually show us and not just words. Because when someone posts their theory of showing the opposite, the conversation no longer becomes constructive. It becomes difficult to really understand what one is saying when you are seeing different things in your game.

Prime example. One person is saying every pass is perfect. Another says passes are often undercooked. Both apparently are issues with the current ME. That sort of contradicts. I think “every pass is perfect” is more about certain moments but again, some won’t know that if not shown

Edited March 8 by RDF Tactics

[akkm]

8 hours ago, RDF Tactics said:

Maybe I'm missing something because you clearly stated "it's a match engine issue" when someone brought up through passes. You said and quite clearly "you can't" when @Itego asked how to fix through balls to his AF. So you're replying that you can't fix the through ball issue to his AF. I replied how I do it. What's the issue with that?

  Reveal hidden contents

Me then posting my tactic and showing how I do it isn't to just "prove you wrong" but also simply because the original person is asking for help. Therefore, posting my tactic and in-game screenshots of what he wants to achieve seems like a good idea to me.

I've also clearly mentioned central play can do with an improvement. When I call for things to be improved, I don't just claim things. I *try* to back my theory and send in my opinion. So, about central play and other things, I have reported many many times. If you read my comments here, you will very quickly realise I don't think the ME is perfect and faultless. I don't just say things loosely and I report it. So talking about not wanting to help the game, I spend so much of my free time sending in stuff. Quite literally. I'm sure you will not find many more customers actively attempting to communicate with SI to improve FM. And as you said, each to their own so why don't I have the right to disagree with you without it meaning I don't want to help the game? You will never find a comment of me saying FM is fine as it is. You'll see plenty of me suggesting things to improve the game. Trying to help. But be constructive it what I'm doing.

This thread is a perfect example. Rather than the person claiming it's broken etc, they posted a constructive thread. I and others tried to help. First, we made sure we tried many different combinations to get what he wanted. After not being able to achieve that, there was so much "evidence" to send in. I then sent it to SI and they saw it. That's what I picture what helping SI improve the ME looks like. SI now have more to work with.

What doesn't help SI is people just claiming things are a problem with no suggestions. Also, claiming you can't do things in the game when you can doesn't help the player.

As clear. "Personally, I'd like to see an improvement with ball retention in the central areas of the final 3rd. Allowing for more methodical chance creation".

Now, the person wanted his world-class striker to score goals. He wanted through balls. Why is it then bad to say "check your tactics"? Why is saying it can be your tactic such a negative thing? If he genuinely wants help which it seemed he did, he can take advice on how others are getting the same results he's asking for.

There are his questions. I then replied by showing my tactic and it happening in game. I showed those in game shots to back my original theory of attacking channels etc etc. 

  Reveal hidden contents

  Reveal hidden contents

 

Remember. To all his question posts about him asking for through balls, you went on to call it an issue with the ME and that he can't fix the through ball issues he's having. To me, and others, that looks clearly like you're saying either it doesn't happen or happen enough.

So actually, me showing it happening 3 times in one game is a good thing because it shows he absolutely can fix THAT particular issue. He never once mentioned anything else about operating in tight areas etc. Those things can do with an improvement. People and myself would agree. But, that was not the question the person asked and yourself claimed he can not fix the issue he's having. Hence my replies.

Through balls is the only thing I'm answering to. Simply, because you said he can't fix it. Maybe you didn't mean to. But, through balls is he wanted and that's what I wanted to help with.

Oh I absolutely meant to say he can't fix it...because he can't as overall it's a match engine issue.

I said this (italics)...

"Its a match engine issue this year sadly. Sure...there are a few still in there but movement, decision making, ability to operate in tight spaces and weighting of passes is off overall. Needs work in the match engine team"

To which a user answered he didn’t have those problems

Itego asked how did he fix it

So that extended his reply beyond through balls as he asked how did he fix it referencing other elements but still, I get you, the crux of what he wanted was re through balls.

I replied mostly on that below (italics)...

"You can't. It's a match engine thing overall. Sure...certain levers can be tweaked to mitigate it to a small extent and give you some intermittent joy but the patterns will ultimately repeat as you've seen yourself.

I saw you mention this year versus last and last year relied on a lot of passes through the air to alleviate that element of things for those balls you want to see but that was an unrealistic element of the simulation in itself. This year they addressed the balls through the air but, unfortunately, without addressing the creativity required elsewhere to balance it out.

Worth checking @XaWto see what his tactics can do giving you a little uplift...his inputs are useful sometimes but I'd say manage your expectations on what it will deliver as overall it's a fault in the match engine simulation"

On balls through the air last year I didn’t mean just through balls.

Anyway, I alluded that the through balls issue can be mitigated with tactical tweaks…even my first response never said there was none. For sure I extended it early beyond through balls and you yourself extended it beyond merely through balls when you said “attacking central areas is certainly a thing in FM24” which is why I gave the lengthy reply beyond just that issue.

I also know you’re trying to be helpful which I alluded to and said you had lots of helpful posts but unwittingly in this instance it’s feedback but ultimately not helpful to improve the simulation…for sure it can be helpful to itego.

It reminds me in FM2019 lots of the feedback on the forums was the central play/through balls issue was movement related. An SI team member agreed on the forums then. I could see this wasn’t simply the case…movement did need enhancing but the issue was also pass decision related. I actually directly messaged the match engine team with an extensive post including time stamped match examples showing them this but so much feedback on movement on the forums seemed to influence their assessment and ultimately there was an element of misdiagnoses and it actually wasn’t fixed until fm21.

To be fair to them I think they did attempt to improve passing but it lead to too many passes through the air from too deep…but that was another issue I had flagged to them years prior lol.

Apologies if you feel I singled you out here but again it’s just I can see what feedback can make SI not fully aware of the extent of the issues and not draw the correct conclusions as a result.

I know you think you have fixed the through balls element with your examples but you’ve actually just supported what I said…it can be mitigated for sure but your example isn’t the issue fixed at all. The issue is a match engine issue in terms of fundamental decision making and vision not being simulated/coded well enough. Players can be far more creative with through balls (and much more) than they already are and whilst we can see examples of through balls, situations arise which should engender/trigger them more especially with creative players/style to do it. There doesn't have to be glaring space to trigger these passes either but FM needs too much space at times. Essentially it’s too limited.

And fyi…yes I have provided information on this to SI...by another means.

Ultimately what you have posted is only a mitigant, not a solution/fix.

There’s a bigger picture at play and I do think it comes down to view of football at times. I’m sure you’ve played a bunch of matches and tested out all sorts so I guess if you haven’t seen the stuff I allude to then you won’t at this stage. Sure, you may not see the extent of them and feel only small tweaks are required but that’s just not the case.

There’s a reason why SI struggles to balance the engine each year and knock ons cause them too much strife and this is one of them. It's why we see patterns repeat too much at times in the match engine and with attempted development. There’s been too much of a default reliance on width over the years with proper creative play encompassing vision, passing and movement not up to scratch. I mean threaded passes, through balls, guiled passes, line breaking passes there…not just through balls but it needs quite a lot of enhancement to actually allow real progress to be made. Also, complementary movement as well. There’s a lot to be done to improve things and it’s about time we see this. So that’s why I jumped in on your feedback about this stuff and for sure an element is borne out of frustration for the lack of progress with the match engine

[akkm]

5 hours ago, themadsheep2001 said:

The other thing as well is that the number of through balls per game for a team isnt that high - having gone through the Premier League, Serie A, La Liga, Eredivsie, Bundesliga, Ligue 1 and Portugal Liga, the highest is 3 through balls per game, and majority of teams in each of those leagues (it varies slightly) are hitting 1 per game. 

Central play could do with a slight more focus but the number of threaded passes isnt all that high, so any tweak should be slight

Yeah for sure on real world numbers of through balls but like other measures I'm not sure how comparable SI's definition of through balls is to the real world ones.

Re threaded passes this would encompass more than just through balls and that's just terminology but overall creative passing isn't up to scratch...FM is missing other creative passes than just through balls really

[Rodrigogc]

Through balls is just the high end of low of the issue, up to it there is lacking of final third central play creativity, especially because the game seems to rush the play when the ball reaches the opponent's box, instead of players passing the ball waiting for the right opportunity to give that final pass. 

[NineCloudNine]

1 hour ago, Rodrigogc said:

Through balls is just the high end of low of the issue

That’s a bit deep for me 

[chris72]

My gk purposely passed the ball to the other team and they scored

this has never happend to me ever.  

 

even if u tell players hit early crosses they will still not cross the ball

even if a player is available to score a goal. so frustrating

 

To the game developers please improve the match engine needs to bit more faster

and less boring more quicker passes.

[Smoo]

Player is both delighted and unhappy with his playing time, and now I have to lie to him about being sorry for not playing him enough, even though I did, and the player himself recognises this fact.

What is the point of player interactions when this nonsense is ignored year after year?

[fc.cadoni]

11 minutes ago, Smoo said:

Player is both delighted and unhappy with his playing time, and now I have to lie to him about being sorry for not playing him enough, even though I did, and the player himself recognises this fact.

What is the point of player interactions when this nonsense is ignored year after year?

The target (scoring of 10 goals) with playing time is something different. You can ignore it and best remedy is win matches; then you will receive an inbox that X player have put away any issues.

[fc.cadoni]

26 minutes ago, chris72 said:

My gk purposely passed the ball to the other team and they scored

this has never happend to me ever.  

 

even if u tell players hit early crosses they will still not cross the ball

even if a player is available to score a goal. so frustrating

 

To the game developers please improve the match engine needs to bit more faster

and less boring more quicker passes.

Bring your issues in Bug Tracker with examples. It's the only way to convince the X developer that something is not working.

[NineCloudNine]

27 minutes ago, Smoo said:

Player is both delighted and unhappy with his playing time, and now I have to lie to him about being sorry for not playing him enough, even though I did, and the player himself recognises this fact.

What is the point of player interactions when this nonsense is ignored year after year?

They are separate logic modules. The targets one was bolted on for FM24. It's not a surprise that it doesn't interact seamlessly with existing modules. FM has become something of a Frankenstein's monster of patched-together systems as new features are crowbarred in each year. If I was in charge of the world I'd instruct SI to massively streamline the game. Fewer, better-working features, with player interactions given an enormous overhaul.

Edited March 8 by NineCloudNine

[Overmars]

My lingering nitpicks for this game:

1. Players should wait at least 10 months after signing a contract before demanding a new one. Stop hounding me 6 months into a 4-year deal.
2. Player form irritates me. If a ST/AML/AMR goes 4-5 games without scoring then their finishing attribute of 15 seems to drop to 1 until they score again. The impact of form is too severe.
3. Loan player role stipulations need to disappear. Unfun and unrealistic. Just make the stipulations all about playing time.

I am enjoying most of the rest of the game. It has improved enough that the thought of playing an older version really does not appeal to me.

I'd love it if the next version of this game had more "fun" parts in it. More variety in title-winning celebrations would be a good start. I don't want to see the identical cut sequence every time I win something. I'd also like a bit more variety in job interviews and player interactions. Anything to make the game less predictable would be a win.

[Socerer 01]

Did they increase the chances of being FM’ed in the winter update to make the game artificially difficult? My Man Utd team has currently got an underperformance of -8.74 in xG for and has +2.6 xG against. No other team in the top five leagues of this save has a similar underperformance in goals scored relative to xG and chances created. The next worst teams in this regard are all in the relegation spots or close to it. 
 

I would get it if I’m racking up a bunch of low xG chances that wouldn’t result in goals ultimately but my players are missing one clear cut chance per game on average, shooting at the keeper or over the bar at point blank distance, having an offside goal per game that probably doesn’t get counted in these stats. The only saving grace is that I don’t get the dreaded hitting the woodwork issue that used to happen in the past. I don’t mind the defensive underperformance since my system is fairly risky and my defenders and goalkeeper aren’t the best but two of my attackers are in the media dream XI and one of the midfielders used to be there too. 
 

Either the update has tweaked something or the FM gods have cursed my players to not finish. 

[kiwityke1983]

5 hours ago, Overmars said:

 

1. Players should wait at least 10 months after signing a contract before demanding a new one. Stop hounding me 6 months into a 4-year deal.

This just happened to me Player demands a new contract I have plenty of wage cap so give him one, won promotion 3 months later...he's straight in the office I'm a better player than when I signed my last contract I'm now worth oh at least 5 times what I was a whole 3 months ago!

Getting promoted from L1 to the Championship is utterly painful due to this players go from being on 2k per week to demanding 20k and you get only a modest increase in wage budget.

Anyway of course I don't have a spare 20k lying around so now him and another player who also wanted 20k are kicking off.

Can ruin saves having to deal with the weekly whinge.

[whatsupdoc]

3 hours ago, kiwityke1983 said:

This just happened to me Player demands a new contract I have plenty of wage cap so give him one, won promotion 3 months later...he's straight in the office I'm a better player than when I signed my last contract I'm now worth oh at least 5 times what I was a whole 3 months ago!

Getting promoted from L1 to the Championship is utterly painful due to this players go from being on 2k per week to demanding 20k and you get only a modest increase in wage budget.

Anyway of course I don't have a spare 20k lying around so now him and another player who also wanted 20k are kicking off.

Can ruin saves having to deal with the weekly whinge.

 

On player interactions: I don't think the logic behind the issues has changed much, just the sensitivity at which they're triggered. 

Playing with no badges / no experience I still have full squad meltdowns because one average player of the squad doesn't feel he's playing enough. 

None of the conversation options placate anyone.

So the underlying problem feels like it's still there to me, just triggered less frequently. 

Edited March 9 by whatsupdoc

[wazzaflow10]

This game for me is so close to being very good for me personally but scouting is so broken compared to 23. Did a test with Derby County and Man Utd. Both had the same number of players scouted in six months. Not recommendations, just total number of players scouted. You'd never know that one team had 5 scouts and the other had 36. That Man Utd scouting job must be super cushy in the game like it is in real life.

[wazzaflow10]

7 hours ago, Socerer 01 said:

Did they increase the chances of being FM’ed in the winter update to make the game artificially difficult? My Man Utd team has currently got an underperformance of -8.74 in xG for and has +2.6 xG against. No other team in the top five leagues of this save has a similar underperformance in goals scored relative to xG and chances created. The next worst teams in this regard are all in the relegation spots or close to it. 
 

I would get it if I’m racking up a bunch of low xG chances that wouldn’t result in goals ultimately but my players are missing one clear cut chance per game on average, shooting at the keeper or over the bar at point blank distance, having an offside goal per game that probably doesn’t get counted in these stats. The only saving grace is that I don’t get the dreaded hitting the woodwork issue that used to happen in the past. I don’t mind the defensive underperformance since my system is fairly risky and my defenders and goalkeeper aren’t the best but two of my attackers are in the media dream XI and one of the midfielders used to be there too. 
 

Either the update has tweaked something or the FM gods have cursed my players to not finish. 

no match engine updates for 24.3. Try telling your players to relax. Usually when you start down that path its easy to get caught up in criticizing or telling them to prove a point etc when really you should be saying things like there's no pressure on them or ignore the media praise just relax. Its a fine line between feeling pressured/over motivated and being complacent from a team talk/management perspective. Green doesn't always mean good for these things. 

Edited March 9 by wazzaflow10

[Flohrinho]

For years now the way NPC teams with high possession play in the game has annoyed me and nothing seems to change about it. In real life you usually see teams like City enjoy a lot of possession, while also usually being the team with the most chances during a game. On top of that they enjoy the most possession in the oppositions half but not so in FM. I just played the league leaders in terms of possession.

Now clearly given the shots in the game Newcastle, on the right, was not the dominant team in this match because the majority of possession happened here.

Pretty much all in their own half with the biggest hot spot being their GK.

In real life the passing around the back and boring your opponent to death is pretty much extinct, thanks to pressing. Losing the ball in your final third is pretty much the worst thing that can happen to your but the NPC teams can do it without much hassle, simply due to how pressing works in this game. There seems to be an invisible area on the pitch that is almost impossible to press, unless you play a 424 it seems and even with that formation passing around the back will still happen if a team is really hell bent on turtling out the game. I really hope that this is something the ME team is looking into because it's really annoying that your full court press so to speak just turns back at a certain area in the oppositions final third and lets them pass the ball around.

Apart from that I still have to say I like this ME very much and the ME team has done some crazy good work this year with all the nice new animations it is looking better than ever and I can't wait for the graphics updates next when I hope it will get even better. Keep up the good work guys. 

 

Edited March 9 by Flohrinho

[Danchinaski]

The whole *do a tactic overhaul on January 1st because the rock bottom team with only seven points and no goals in eight games are now Brazil 1970* aspect is gamey is hell and needs tweaking to be at leaat a bit more subtle imho

[elang]

i think 24.3 update is great in my opinion but can you update the korean league to the latest roster because it still not updated. i hope you can update the k league rosters in 24.4 data update!

[Rashidi]

Gotta admit there are some nice animations on the match engine, here in one of our first few league games of the season my ball playing defender goes off on a mad dribble starting from his own half, what is interesting is how some of the other players react. One of them clearly recognises the danger of the run and instructs others to attack the box.

 

[Etebaer]

I really feel this version of FM is the most relating to the mental attributes that make otherwise good players (athletic and technique) suck or stand out - i have found no position and role that can work with under average mental stats.

 

You know its FM when this guy scores the 1:0 via Header around 90 seconds into the game and you equalizer 2 minutes later is ruled out for alleged offside...(still won the game in the end after numerous early subs).

 

[whatsupdoc]

Scouting seems crazy to me. League one club with 3-4 scouts I already have well over 100 five star recommendations after a few months. 

[-Jef-]

2 hours ago, whatsupdoc said:

Scouting seems crazy to me. League one club with 3-4 scouts I already have well over 100 five star recommendations after a few months. 

But I thought they did not fix anything regarding scouting? What is happening?

[stevemc]

For what it’s worth I think FM24 good and value for money (£35) however I don’t think it’s the “most complete edition” we’ve had, it’s still littered with bugs and niggles from previous editions, the kind of stuff seasoned FM players are sick of not being fixed and being rolled over to the next FM.

IMO The Winter Patch felt like a quick fix patch too rather than a comprehensive detailed patch, presumably because focus is on FM25 and the new graphics engine, for that reason I’m expecting big things from FM25 however I don’t think this is going to be a smooth transition… but fingers crossed it is - I’d like to see more information on FM25 start to come out during the summer to build excitement rather than the usual September too. My biggest request for FM25 is to improve newgen faces, they’re terrible, no two ways about it - and I don’t see why AI can’t be used in the area to generate real faces.

I wrote my Steam review about 3 weeks after launch and won’t be changing it as I do think SI need to do better with the launches for FM titles, launch should be more complete than it has been, feels like a second Beta phase for us to raise further bugs and wait for another patch in December, a day one launch patch should be capturing the majority of that.

Still, overall, I’m enjoying FM24 

Edited March 10 by stevemc

[XaW]

On 07/03/2024 at 08:44, XaW said:

As much as I criticize the press conferences in the game, I just had an example of an excellent question!

For context, I won the tier below last season and managed to get into the promotion playoff this season and the game has acknowledged that and turned it into a question! Good! These are the types of questions we need more of in press conferences! More please! 

Another few well asked questions, even if they are few and far between.

We lost the playoffs last season and reached them again this time, and these are reasonable questions to ask!

Now, if we could remove the fluff and just have one or two of these every time, then I would be very happy with it.

[whatsupdoc]

1 hour ago, -Jef- said:

But I thought they did not fix anything regarding scouting? What is happening?

They definitely changed it... IDK whether they fixed it.

My scouts have suggested 99 five star potential players in the last 79 days:

Spoiler

Spoiler

If I cut it down to "extensive" knowledge only, I get 37 five star potential players:

Spoiler

In league 1 I have 3 scouts and a recruitment analyst. 

That seems extremely high to me. I want 5 stars to be more meaningful and more rare. They are a dime a dozen at the moment.

Also, we should be able to tweak what "5 star potential" means to us. 

I want 5 star potential to mean a top premier league player, not a top league 1 player. Why should the ceiling of the recommendations be pegged to where we currently play?

Let's say one of those 37 extensive 5 star players has a PA of 160 (Top premier league player) and one has a PA of 130 (top championship player) - they're both coming in at 5 stars at the moment without differentiation from the scout.

Edited March 10 by whatsupdoc

[TrueGrit600]

On 27/10/2023 at 10:55, DarJ said:

I don’t use a Mac so I don’t know the specific directories where the files are stored but if you do then click on the arrow that says “top” then go to the root directory and navigate from there.

Unfortunately for me I’m using the 24.3patch and game keeps crashing  With parsing errors, language errors. I try reinstalling severally without luck. I remove all my packs and add one after the other but do not show. Please advise. I use a macbook pro 2019.

[wazzaflow10]

5 hours ago, whatsupdoc said:

Scouting seems crazy to me. League one club with 3-4 scouts I already have well over 100 five star recommendations after a few months. 

There's zero difference in the number of players scouted whether you're Derby County or Man United. I literally just tested this and posted the problem in here. Something changed between 23 and 24 at the very least.

Long story short - You can have 30 scouts or 5 scouts it all comes in at the same rate. I noticed something was up around December. All they tweaked was the "number of recommendations" but the issue is that it doesn't matter what team you are or how many scouts you have it all. The issue was never the number of recommendations it was that the number of players scouted looks to be a capped/fixed number. If you're a big club its going to reduce the recommendations because if you scout 500 players so few are going to pass the threshold compared to a League One club. So in League One you'll get inundated with reports and if you're a top 4 club you're wondering what the **** is going on.

We've also been told in there scouts won't scout players who are uninterested in joining your team at that very moment. That makes no sense to me if I'm doing a standard or ongoing focus type. If I'm scouting England I want to know all the players in England that meet the parameters. It also applies to U18 players overseas. They won't appear in your scouting until they turn 18 and CAN actually join. So if someone becomes available or I'm planning on replacing someone in a year or two I know what the possibilities could be. Its ruined really any long term save for me.

[whatsupdoc]

39 minutes ago, wazzaflow10 said:

There's zero difference in the number of players scouted whether you're Derby County or Man United. I literally just tested this and posted the problem in here. Something changed between 23 and 24 at the very least.

Long story short - You can have 30 scouts or 5 scouts it all comes in at the same rate. I noticed something was up around December. All they tweaked was the "number of recommendations" but the issue is that it doesn't matter what team you are or how many scouts you have it all. The issue was never the number of recommendations it was that the number of players scouted looks to be a capped/fixed number. If you're a big club its going to reduce the recommendations because if you scout 500 players so few are going to pass the threshold compared to a League One club. So in League One you'll get inundated with reports and if you're a top 4 club you're wondering what the **** is going on.

We've also been told in there scouts won't scout players who are uninterested in joining your team at that very moment. That makes no sense to me if I'm doing a standard or ongoing focus type. If I'm scouting England I want to know all the players in England that meet the parameters. It also applies to U18 players overseas. They won't appear in your scouting until they turn 18 and CAN actually join. So if someone becomes available or I'm planning on replacing someone in a year or two I know what the possibilities could be. Its ruined really any long term save for me.

Have you tested it as the same club with 5 and 30 scouts noticed any dif? 

[wazzaflow10]

7 minutes ago, whatsupdoc said:

Have you tested it as the same club with 5 and 30 scouts noticed any dif? 

The only way to do that would be to fire all the Man Utd staff I guess. I could try it I guess but not sure that adds much to the test.

The issue I saw was that when I was Derby and scouted in 23 and 24 I got similar results of about 500 players scouted. When I was man utd I got 700 plus scouted in 23 (and probably would have had more if I had more leagues loaded) but only 500 in 24.

Everything about the saves within teams were the same, same focuses, same number of scouts, same starting seed point. The only difference was the game version.

I had a long term save going that I ported over from 23 to 24. When I ported it over I had about 2500 players scouted about two game years after I switched to 24 and played post 24.2 update my total number of players scouted was about 1400. Some of my focuses were different but I was still scouting large swaths of regions. So something, somewhere isn't connecting properly in my opinion. If the idea is to slow the human down I get it but it is a clumsy, frustrating way to do it.

Edited March 10 by wazzaflow10

[Nick_CB]

9 horas atrás, Rashidi disse:

Gotta admit there are some nice animations on the match engine, here in one of our first few league games of the season my ball playing defender goes off on a mad dribble starting from his own half, what is interesting is how some of the other players react. One of them clearly recognises the danger of the run and instructs others to attack the box.

 

 

I can only watch players completely ignoring the player running with the ball without anyone bothering him or putting pressure on him

[Rodrigogc]

3 minutos atrás, Nick_CB disse:

I can only watch players completely ignoring the player running with the ball without anyone bothering him or putting pressure on him

The way I see football, watching a Defender running the whole pitch with the ball like this without any pressure is a complete aberration. 

But this is something that has been going on for years. I remember in FM17 I saw Vlasic running with the ball from left wing to right wing, literally crossing the pitch wide while the opponents only watched him without any pressing. It is bizarre how weak FM's IA is. And people still judge those who think the game is easy. 

Edited March 10 by Rodrigogc

[tezcatlipoca665]

17 minutes ago, Nick_CB said:

I can only watch players completely ignoring the player running with the ball without anyone bothering him or putting pressure on him

The other team may as well not be there at all or be sitting in the stands with the crowd lol. No marking, no pressure, nothing.

[whatsupdoc]

10 hours ago, Rashidi said:

Gotta admit there are some nice animations on the match engine, here in one of our first few league games of the season my ball playing defender goes off on a mad dribble starting from his own half, what is interesting is how some of the other players react. One of them clearly recognises the danger of the run and instructs others to attack the box.

 

 

 

This is a good example of why we end up with screens like this:

 

There's just not enough pressure on the ball in a lot of situations, but especially crossing situations. 

[El Payaso]

2 hours ago, Nick_CB said:

I can only watch players completely ignoring the player running with the ball without anyone bothering him or putting pressure on him

I wonder how big percentage of FM players use short delivery as one of their basic instructions. For me it has always been quite overpowering instruction not just because of these kind of scenarios but also because in general it is really easy to play out of defense and reach the halfway line with little resistance. That is why I rarely touch this part of the game and just leave it to default. Sometimes the keeper plays it short and quite often decides to go with a long kick or throw. 

[wazzaflow10]

Just now, Litmanen 10 said:

I wonder how big percentage of FM players use short delivery as one of their basic instructions. For me it has always been quite overpowering instruction not just because of these kind of scenarios but also because in general it is really easy to play out of defense and reach the halfway line with little resistance. That is why I rarely touch this part of the game and just leave it to default. Sometimes the keeper plays it short and quite often decides to go with a long kick or throw. 

I use it because the long distribution from GK is so poor. Half the time their kicks or punts will be to no one. I understand if they are under pressure but there's no reason punts or goal kicks should be going to the other team's left back when my forwards are on the right side of the pitch. I also just like keeping possession.

[Rodrigogc]

1 minuto atrás, wazzaflow10 disse:

I use it because the long distribution from GK is so poor. Half the time their kicks or punts will be to no one. I understand if they are under pressure but there's no reason punts or goal kicks should be going to the other team's left back when my forwards are on the right side of the pitch. I also just like keeping possession.

Long distribution is disgraceful in FM, not to mention players not disputing the ball when it reaches the ground. Usually when the GK kick the ball you already know what's gonna happen in the end as the ball is flying over the pitch. I use short distribution as well, usually to Central Defenders, but I leave instructions like "Dribble more" out so that I don't see aberrations like a Central defender running all over the pitch without pressure. 

[El Payaso]

At least we are not anymore seeing it too often that professional goalkeepers can't even reach the halfway line with their kicks. This used to be very common in previous versions. And to compare: even I can reach the halfway line even though I only played semi professionally and wasn't a keeper. When playing as a keeper, I was actually able to play quite precise long balls even close to the opposition penalty area when I played the last time. 

As I am always trying to avoid all exploits within the match engine, short distribution is a no-no to me. 

[wazzaflow10]

7 minutes ago, Litmanen 10 said:

At least we are not anymore seeing it too often that professional goalkeepers can't even reach the halfway line with their kicks. This used to be very common in previous versions. And to compare: even I can reach the halfway line even though I only played semi professionally and wasn't a keeper. When playing as a keeper, I was actually able to play quite precise long balls even close to the opposition penalty area when I played the last time. 

As I am always trying to avoid all exploits within the match engine, short distribution is a no-no to me. 

I don't think that's an exploit as the AI can also do it. You're not doing anything that would be considered extreme. There's a reason why most teams do it. Its just how the game is played. Its fine if you want to give yourself a "handicap" greater than most but I don't think anything about short distribution on its own is an exploit.

[Kybo2105]

10 minutes ago, wazzaflow10 said:

I don't think that's an exploit as the AI can also do it. You're not doing anything that would be considered extreme. There's a reason why most teams do it. Its just how the game is played. Its fine if you want to give yourself a "handicap" greater than most but I don't think anything about short distribution on its own is an exploit.

I can agree with you about that. 👀

Edited March 10 by Kybo2105

[janrzm]

13 hours ago, Rashidi said:

Gotta admit there are some nice animations on the match engine, here in one of our first few league games of the season my ball playing defender goes off on a mad dribble starting from his own half, what is interesting is how some of the other players react. One of them clearly recognises the danger of the run and instructs others to attack the box.

 

 

Despite the nice animations I just can't get any joy from this, all I see are issues. You have a far greater understanding of what's going on under the hood than I do. For example, what happens to the midfielder who's tracked back on 9-10 seconds, he literally gives up for a split second then wakes up again?

[wazzaflow10]

24 minutes ago, janrzm said:

Despite the nice animations I just can't get any joy from this, all I see are issues. You have a far greater understanding of what's going on under the hood than I do. For example, what happens to the midfielder who's tracked back on 9-10 seconds, he literally gives up for a split second then wakes up again?

Well he looks like hes the CF for the opposition. No one thinks a CB is going to run the length of the pitch unchallenged. So he allows his midfield to handle it and in the event the CB loses the ball its now 1v1 upfront. I'd take those chances. Prime opportunity to counter attack. If you also look at the moment the ball is crossed the team in white has two players on screen that are sitting above what should be Rashidi's holding DM. One ball past him and its 3v2. It's a high risk attack that worked out but could very easily turn into a dangerous counter attack imo.

 

Edit:

Apologies I misread what defender you meant. At 9/10 seconds the winger cuts across. Seems like it was a moment of confusion on who should pick up who there. I don't think that's unnatural. Its actually quite a good visualization of indecisiveness imo.

Edited March 10 by wazzaflow10

[janrzm]

10 minutes ago, wazzaflow10 said:

Well he looks like hes the CF for the opposition. No one thinks a CB is going to run the length of the pitch unchallenged. So he allows his midfield to handle it and in the event the CB loses the ball its now 1v1 upfront. I'd take those chances. Prime opportunity to counter attack. If you also look at the moment the ball is crossed the team in white has two players on screen that are sitting above what should be Rashidi's holding DM. One ball past him and its 3v2. It's a high risk attack that worked out but could very easily turn into a dangerous counter attack imo.

You should probs watch that again. It looks like a 4-3-3 DM to me. The player tracking back is the R/H Midfielder. On 9-10 seconds something weird happens, then he wakes up again before half heartedly carrying on. I don't know what attributes/traits etc could possibly explain that behaviour. 

Edited March 10 by janrzm

[Kybo2105]

21 minutes ago, wazzaflow10 said:

Well he looks like hes the CF for the opposition. No one thinks a CB is going to run the length of the pitch unchallenged. So he allows his midfield to handle it and in the event the CB loses the ball its now 1v1 upfront. I'd take those chances. Prime opportunity to counter attack. If you also look at the moment the ball is crossed the team in white has two players on screen that are sitting above what should be Rashidi's holding DM. One ball past him and its 3v2. It's a high risk attack that worked out but could very easily turn into a dangerous counter attack imo.

 

Edit:

Apologies I misread what defender you meant. At 9/10 seconds the winger cuts across. Seems like it was a moment of confusion on who should pick up who there. I don't think that's unnatural. Its actually quite a good visualization of indecisiveness imo.

You are wrong, it is quite natural.