Not for sale

[Dbuk1]

Two points on players not for sale in the game.

1. Every player has a price (my opinion). If the game wants to make players not for sale then maybe they can state that when enquiring etc.???

2. It is a little frustrating when player searching via certain stats and players of high value (not for sale) are on the opposite end of the value scale. 

[HUNT3R]

Some teams do not want to sell.

[Dbuk1]

That doesn’t mean they are not for sale. Anyway no problem

Edited October 25, 2021 by Dbuk1

[jackripper]

Im sure there are players that are not for sale for example i couldnt see Manchester city selling Phil Foden for example regardless of the offer, wether thats £200 mil or £500 mil

[Butters76]

For £500M every player is for sale, that I'm pretty sure of.

[forameuss]

FM used to say that players weren't for sale, and people complained. So they changed it to always have a value, even if that value was ridiculous.  People complained.  Now they change it back, and...

The more things change, the more they stay the same.

[cris182]

59 minutes ago, Butters76 said:

For £500M every player is for sale, that I'm pretty sure of.

Yes but in real life no one would bid it, This is a game where people play with pretend money then complain the game is broke when they are the ones doing something wrong 

If you put in an unrealistic bid then the game will be unrealistic back

[Dbuk1]

In 10 years time 500million could be a real bid on a player. So years into footy manager when you are mega rich?? Anyway forget it. It's not going to change because it requires recoding. Nothing to do with anything else. 

[Butters76]

I was talking both in game and reallity. Jack said he couldn't see City selling Foden even for £500M
And I pointed out that I'm sure they would. A £500M bid would be accepted by any club for any player.

And at some point in the future a player will get transfered for £500M
They Neymar deal shocked the world when he went to PSG for something like £227M

[Dbuk1]

I agree. Madrid where going to buy Mbappe with 12 months left on his contract for over 100 million( I realise he was NFS). Mbappe doesn't hold a torch to Messi in his prime. So imagine 10 years worth of inflation on top of everything else. 500 million is realistic in the future if history follows a similar pattern. All I was saying for the game purpose is it is unrealistic. The game has many many many players as not for sale. In reality you could argue one player was. 

Edited October 26, 2021 by Dbuk1

[HUNT3R]

1 minute ago, Dbuk1 said:

So imagine 10 years worth of inflation on top of everything else.

Just remember, there's no inflation in FM.

[Dbuk1]

That's a good point. I still believe in history of football maybe 2 players where not for sale. Not the amount currently in the game.

Edited October 26, 2021 by Dbuk1

[Phillybear]

8 hours ago, HUNT3R said:

Just remember, there's no inflation in FM.

There's no coded inflation, but after a decade in game, most big clubs have 3-5 times the transfer budget they started with at the beginning, because their bank account keep building up over 1 billion.

[XaW]

This is part of the eternal thing that SI have changed a few times and no matter someone complains.

1. Some players are "not for sale" and clubs will reject any proposal. The response from users is, "everyone is for sale if the price is crazy enough. The club would sell if I bid this insane amount!"

2. For bids on players who are considered "not for sale" clubs will respond with insane amount. The response from users is "Why can't they just say not for sale?. No one will bid so much for that player!"

It's like SI can't win on this topic...

[Baodan]

On 26/10/2021 at 22:05, XaW said:

This is part of the eternal thing that SI have changed a few times and no matter someone complains.

1. Some players are "not for sale" and clubs will reject any proposal. The response from users is, "everyone is for sale if the price is crazy enough. The club would sell if I bid this insane amount!"

2. For bids on players who are considered "not for sale" clubs will respond with insane amount. The response from users is "Why can't they just say not for sale?. No one will bid so much for that player!"

I'm sure a lot of players play this game to fulfill their fantasies regarding their favorite teams and their favorite footballers . This is somewhat possible with option 1 but clearly impossible with option 2. 

SI seems to be well aware of this fact, just look at how they advertise the game: Work with your scouts to turn your dreams to reality by acquiring the future superstars who’ll carry your side to glory season after season.

 

[sporadicsmiles]

That is kinda what "not for sale" means. You will have to pay a crazy amount for the player. I like this change, since it actually makes it explicit when you can expect to come up against a team who simple aren't interested at selling a player for a normal price. 

This works the same way as previous FMs, where you bid and they would ask for 150 million or something crazy. Everyone has their price, and most teams aren't stupid enough to pay it in this case. 

[Mars_Blackmon]

I like it better this way.

[nico_france]

Le 26/10/2021 à 12:43, cris182 a dit :

Yes but in real life no one would bid it, This is a game where people play with pretend money then complain the game is broke when they are the ones doing something wrong 

If you put in an unrealistic bid then the game will be unrealistic back

Psg: Hold my beer

[Iggy Hassan]

Can you unsettle the 'not for sale' player by placing a bid then he will ask for a move?

If you can't even place a bid, then why can't we do that with our own players?

[fc.cadoni]

1 minute ago, Iggy Hassan said:

Can you unsettle the 'not for sale' player by placing a bid then he will ask for a move?

If you can't even place a bid, then why can't we do that with our own players?

You can unsettle player without even placing a bid. Like call him in media as Top Transfer Target, asking someone to try convince him etc.

For not a sale player you can place a bid.

[KingCanary]

I prefer the team setting a price rather than just saying 'nope' but there has always been an issue around smaller clubs demanding insane prices for players and rejecting bids that are sometimes enough to buy the whole club outright! 

[Mars_Blackmon]

8 hours ago, Iggy Hassan said:

Can you unsettle the 'not for sale' player by placing a bid then he will ask for a move?

If you can't even place a bid, then why can't we do that with our own players?

Thats how it works. The club don't want to sell, doesn't mean that the player doesn't want to move. You can still unsettle and force a move.

[Mars_Blackmon]

8 hours ago, fc.cadoni said:

You can unsettle player without even placing a bid. Like call him in media as Top Transfer Target, asking someone to try convince him etc.

For not a sale player you can place a bid.

And that why I like it better this way. It encourages you to use features in the game instead of "maybe I'll offer this highly overpriced value"

[jimbo22]

I wish we could tell the computer that a player isnt for sale and they listened. Instead of having to reject 100 bids of similar values just reorganized in different ways. 

Team wants to buy one of your better players valued at 5m, hes not for sale, team bids 5m, rejected, team offers 4.5m, rejected hes one of my best players, team offers 5m (2m upfront and 3 million in incentives)... eh, I told you i dont want to sell, rinse and repeat until the player gets unhappy 

A frustrating process thats been in FM for years. You want my best player make an offer that makes me even consider it. 

Edited October 29, 2021 by jimbo22

[BDRick35]

I would prefer that a player just get's a insane high asking price rather than the "Not for Sale" tag. 

Edited October 31, 2021 by BDRick35

[Dbuk1]

In all honesty when I made this topic I stupidity thought not for sale meant exactly that. Knowing that I can bid a stupid amount and the club will accept that bid I’m totally happy with. Clubs constantly say not for sale all the time, I have no problem with that as long as they are ACTUALLY for sale.

Edited October 31, 2021 by Dbuk1

[Mars_Blackmon]

9 hours ago, BDRick35 said:

I would prefer that a player just get's a insane high asking price rather than the "Not for Sale" tag. 

This is still in the game. Transfer market is different than previous year's. You are going to overpay for a player that isn't transfer listed especially during the winter transfer window.

[BDRick35]

vor 1 Stunde schrieb Mars_Blackmon:

This is still in the game. Transfer market is different than previous year's. You are going to overpay for a player that isn't transfer listed especially during the winter transfer window.

Still don't like the tag. I know nothin's really changed and it is only cosmetic. I've seen the value always as global market price for a player. right now his value is more like manager based price. You say player XY is worth 145m then his value will be that. Don't like that. If a player is transferlisted, then it is actually pretty cool feature, because his asking price then IS his value.

[Mars_Blackmon]

On 31/10/2021 at 15:03, BDRick35 said:

Still don't like the tag. I know nothin's really changed and it is only cosmetic. I've seen the value always as global market price for a player. right now his value is more like manager based price. You say player XY is worth 145m then his value will be that. Don't like that. If a player is transferlisted, then it is actually pretty cool feature, because his asking price then IS his value.

During the winter transfer period, values are inflated for players that a team don't really want to move mid season. Values are inflated (to a lesser effect) for players that a team thinks have potential.

[Platinum]

On 26/10/2021 at 21:05, XaW said:

This is part of the eternal thing that SI have changed a few times and no matter someone complains.

1. Some players are "not for sale" and clubs will reject any proposal. The response from users is, "everyone is for sale if the price is crazy enough. The club would sell if I bid this insane amount!"

2. For bids on players who are considered "not for sale" clubs will respond with insane amount. The response from users is "Why can't they just say not for sale?. No one will bid so much for that player!"

It's like SI can't win on this topic...

Some things, such as this, shouldnt be influenced by some FM players complaining imo. Some players are just not for sale and that's that.

Edited November 2, 2021 by Platinum

[_mxrky]

15 hours ago, Platinum said:

Some things, such as this, shouldnt be influenced by some FM players complaining imo. Some players are just not for sale and that's that.

Every player is for sale at the right price 

[Mars_Blackmon]

10 minutes ago, _mxrky said:

Every player is for sale at the right price 

And you can still buy not for sale players. For the right price…The team just doesn’t have a value. Because they don’t want to sell them.

[enigmatic]

Probably everyone here would sell their house/car/pet for £500m

But if someone rang up and asked how much they wanted to sell their house/car/pet for, they wouldn't say £500m because that would be silly. And they also wouldn't say a sensible number that people often buy houses/cars/pets for because they actually have no interest in sellling, and aren't really thinking about what its market value actually is and what upgrades they might be able to afford which are worth the hassle. So they'd say "not for sale".

And yet if someone wanted to ignore "not for sale" and bid £500m, or possibly a mere £20m, they would still be able to, and the people here would accept the money.

Have no idea why this is so difficult to grasp when it's a simulation of football management, an area in which club bosses loudly and publicly say "X is not for sale" on a regular basis.

[Mars_Blackmon]

Yea I was able to buy a player (newgen sim 10 years in) during winter for 21 million but he wasn’t for sell. He’s probably worth 8.

 

on another note. I was able to unsettle a player who the club was asking too much for. I kept low balling them and the player is now upset with the manager because he wants to join my club. So he may be potentially transfer listed for cheaper now…

[cris182]

2 hours ago, enigmatic said:

Probably everyone here would sell their house/car/pet for £500m

But if someone rang up and asked how much they wanted to sell their house/car/pet for, they wouldn't say £500m because that would be silly. And they also wouldn't say a sensible number that people often buy houses/cars/pets for because they actually have no interest in sellling, and aren't really thinking about what its market value actually is and what upgrades they might be able to afford which are worth the hassle. So they'd say "not for sale".

And yet if someone wanted to ignore "not for sale" and bid £500m, or possibly a mere £20m, they would still be able to, and the people here would accept the money.

Have no idea why this is so difficult to grasp when it's a simulation of football management, an area in which club bosses loudly and publicly say "X is not for sale" on a regular basis.

Spot on!

[smeagoltonez]

Declan Rice isn't for sale. The owners said that so it must be true. 

[Weston]

I think the issue is that willingness to sell and how much a player is worth are two separate things that should not be conflated, but unfortunately are in the game's current state. There needs to be a separate value for each - "not for sale" is not a player's worth, it's a statement of willingness to sell from the owning club. Adjacent to this issue is the fact that "not for sale" is different from unbuyable - things that aren't for sale are purchased all the time.

Regardless, "not for sale" is silly when only the AI can use it - why do I have to keep entertaining bids at face value for a player I don't want to leave when I could use the same label those same teams use for their own players I am interested in? My captain and goalkeeper is worth 2.5 mil, but he's not for sale, so I'd like to mark him as such. But at the same time, even if I marked him "not for sale," if I got an offer for 100 mil I would sell, because it's more nuanced than FM currently allows.

Alternately, someone may intentionally mark a player as "not for sale" to drive up the price. It's textbook negotiating 101, and why you can already say "I'm not interested in selling" in press conferences about players you obviously do want to cash in on.

Edited April 8, 2022 by Weston

[Gab 5]

Doesn't matter if the players are really for sale or not. If I can't label my players as such the AI shouldn't be able to either. That's just dumb.

[DP]

Every player should have an estimated value. Plenty of websites show that. 
 

Whether they’re for sale at that value is another matter. 
 

This is exactly how FM was coded back in the day. 

[XaW]

On 26/10/2021 at 22:05, XaW said:

This is part of the eternal thing that SI have changed a few times and no matter someone complains.

1. Some players are "not for sale" and clubs will reject any proposal. The response from users is, "everyone is for sale if the price is crazy enough. The club would sell if I bid this insane amount!"

2. For bids on players who are considered "not for sale" clubs will respond with insane amount. The response from users is "Why can't they just say not for sale?. No one will bid so much for that player!"

It's like SI can't win on this topic...

*caugh*

[Iggy Hassan]

Old post resurrected. I think one of my main bugbears is, when you take over managing a club at the start of a new game & the recent players they bought IRL refuse to move and nobody bids on them despite offering them for peanuts.

Note to game makers. It does happen IRL without players kicking a ball for their new clubs. Check out Clive Allen, David Unsworth, Robert Jarni, Joey Beauchamp, Dietmar Hamann to name a few...

[Garethjohn79]

On 26/10/2021 at 11:51, Butters76 said:

I was talking both in game and reallity. Jack said he couldn't see City selling Foden even for £500M
And I pointed out that I'm sure they would. A £500M bid would be accepted by any club for any player.

And at some point in the future a player will get transfered for £500M
They Neymar deal shocked the world when he went to PSG for something like £227M

Could you bump up the thread when the bid comes in? 

Barca as we've come to learn are skint and at the time needed to balance the books if PSG and others were aware of the situation that was coming they'd have bided there time for Barca to become bust or had no choice. Messi went for nothing.

The game allows you to bid on any player, it's way of telling you that a player is not for sale is by rejecting your bids. 

[Weston]

On 26/10/2021 at 16:05, XaW said:

This is part of the eternal thing that SI have changed a few times and no matter someone complains.

1. Some players are "not for sale" and clubs will reject any proposal. The response from users is, "everyone is for sale if the price is crazy enough. The club would sell if I bid this insane amount!"

2. For bids on players who are considered "not for sale" clubs will respond with insane amount. The response from users is "Why can't they just say not for sale?. No one will bid so much for that player!"

It's like SI can't win on this topic...

Both of those can be true at the same time, because once again,

On 07/04/2022 at 16:03, Weston said:

I think the issue is that willingness to sell and how much a player is worth are two separate things that should not be conflated, but unfortunately are in the game's current state. There needs to be a separate value for each - "not for sale" is not a player's worth, it's a statement of willingness to sell from the owning club. Adjacent to this issue is the fact that "not for sale" is different from unbuyable - things that aren't for sale are purchased all the time.

1) There needs to be a section for a player's estimated market value in the game just like there is in real life. This is a data range that, whether you agree with the set value or not, is readily available from sources such as transfermarkt, etc. In the game there should also be an equivalent assumed value range that would be set by the experts in that virtual world.

2) Apart from this, there also needs to be a way of indicating a club's willingness to sell. He can be "not for sale" and still have a market value! Alternately, he can be set or available for sale at, above, or below his market value.

This is a very key feature with a very simple fix, so I don't understand the claim that its current unworkable state is caused by SI being trapped by some hypocritical demands from the user base.

Why can't we just have two adjacent numbers, one for "general accepted market value" and one for "club's willing to sell range, if one exists at all"? I know "asking price" and "transfer listed" are data points that exist already, but they aren't seen in the same way. If I'm scrolling through players and want to sort by valuation, it messes things up when everyone, from 1 million value to 100 million value, that happen to not be for sale for whatever reason are lumped together.

Edited August 23, 2022 by Weston

[XaW]

10 hours ago, Weston said:

Both of those can be true at the same time, because once again,

No, they can't. Either you don't understand what I mean, or you are being deliberately obtuse. Back in the day, the club would refuse to look at any offer, so you where unable to offer any amount for the player. That is my point one. So SI changed it to how it is now where you can offer, but they will reject low ones, and for higher ones, they will quote an absurd amount. That is point two. You can't have impossible to offer, and absurd negotiating at the same time since there will be no negotiating if there is no offer. Is this clear enough?

10 hours ago, Weston said:

1) There needs to be a section for a player's estimated market value in the game just like there is in real life. This is a data range that, whether you agree with the set value or not, is readily available from sources such as transfermarkt, etc. In the game there should also be an equivalent assumed value range that would be set by the experts in that virtual world.

But that value is by no means the same for a selling club and a buying club. Even if the objective value of a player is £60m, the selling club might not want to sell him for £100m because he is "irreplaceable" for the club. So this as a set value, as it used to be, seemed to create an expectation from user that the player would be available at the cost. We have loads of posts in here about that from years back in the tune of "his value is £10m, but when I want to buy him, they want £100m".

10 hours ago, Weston said:

2) Apart from this, there also needs to be a way of indicating a club's willingness to sell. He can be "not for sale" and still have a market value! Alternately, he can be set or available for sale at, above, or below his market value.

This is in the game, you can ask the agent, and he will let you know what price the club would likely want. Otherwise you can enquire the club and they will give this answer. So I don't really know why you would want even another place to see this?

10 hours ago, Weston said:

his is a very key feature with a very simple fix, so I don't understand the claim that its current unworkable state is caused by SI being trapped by some hypocritical demands from the user base.

This is my personal view of how users have criticized this feature. I don't have any more impact on how this will work in the future than you, so why the outrage?

10 hours ago, Weston said:

Why can't we just have two adjacent numbers, one for "general accepted market value" and one for "club's willing to sell range, if one exists at all"? I know "asking price" and "transfer listed" are data points that exist already, but they aren't seen in the same way. If I'm scrolling through players and want to sort by valuation, it messes things up when everyone, from 1 million value to 100 million value, that happen to not be for sale for whatever reason are lumped together.

I think this would just be screen clutter. The game is hard enough to grasp for new players as it is, why have two price tags and confuse even more?

[DP]

54 minutes ago, XaW said:

No, they can't. Either you don't understand what I mean, or you are being deliberately obtuse. Back in the day, the club would refuse to look at any offer, so you where unable to offer any amount for the player. That is my point one. So SI changed it to how it is now where you can offer, but they will reject low ones, and for higher ones, they will quote an absurd amount. That is point two. You can't have impossible to offer, and absurd negotiating at the same time since there will be no negotiating if there is no offer. Is this clear enough?

But that value is by no means the same for a selling club and a buying club. Even if the objective value of a player is £60m, the selling club might not want to sell him for £100m because he is "irreplaceable" for the club. So this as a set value, as it used to be, seemed to create an expectation from user that the player would be available at the cost. We have loads of posts in here about that from years back in the tune of "his value is £10m, but when I want to buy him, they want £100m".

This is in the game, you can ask the agent, and he will let you know what price the club would likely want. Otherwise you can enquire the club and they will give this answer. So I don't really know why you would want even another place to see this?

This is my personal view of how users have criticized this feature. I don't have any more impact on how this will work in the future than you, so why the outrage?

I think this would just be screen clutter. The game is hard enough to grasp for new players as it is, why have two price tags and confuse even more?

A player can have an approximate value regardless of whether you want to sell him or not - the two things can coexist. 
 

Are you trying to say there’s any player in the world you - or someone - couldn’t give an approximate value on based on the market? I know it’s not a science and it may not be what the club are willing to accept but you can broadly place every player into a category for how much they are ‘worth’ based on the current market. 
 

At the moment the game is saying ‘Declan Rice’s value? Oh he’s not for sale’. It’s answering the wrong question. He has a market value based on someone’s opinion. 
 

I get the way the game is currently set up, the ‘value’ is a range of what the club will sell him for but older (very old) versions of CM/FM were not like this. Shearer and Ronaldo were ‘valued’ by the game at £15m. Were they for sale though? No. 

Edited August 24, 2022 by DP

[HUNT3R]

2 minutes ago, DP said:

A player can have an approximate value regardless of whether you want to sell him or not - the two things can coexist. 
 

Are you trying to say there’s any player in the world you - or someone - couldn’t give an approximate value on based on the market? I know it’s not a science and it may not be what the club are willing to accept but you can broadly place every player into a category for how much they are ‘worth’ based on the current market. 
 

At the moment the game is saying ‘Declan Rice’s value? Oh he’s not for sale’. It’s answering the wrong question. He has a market value based on someone’s opinion. 

What would be the point of knowing a market value?

[DP]

1 minute ago, HUNT3R said:

What would be the point of knowing a market value?

Another way to judge how good the player potentially is - we need little cues like this in the game as we don’t have an immersive media or see him directly on the training ground. 
 

Like I said, it was done that way in CM2 and seemed to work well. 

[HUNT3R]

Just now, DP said:

Another way to judge how good the player potentially is - we need little cues like this in the game as we don’t have an immersive media or see him directly on the training ground. 

There's enough already to tell how good a player is. You can see a player's attributes, your scouts will tell you how good he his and give you a scout report on his personality, hidden attributes etc. Analysts can also get involved in telling you how good a player is. I don't see what market value adds to this.

[XaW]

21 minutes ago, DP said:

A player can have an approximate value regardless of whether you want to sell him or not - the two things can coexist. 

Yes, I've not argued against that.

21 minutes ago, DP said:

Are you trying to say there’s any player in the world you - or someone - couldn’t give an approximate value on based on the market? I know it’s not a science and it may not be what the club are willing to accept but you can broadly place every player into a category for how much they are ‘worth’ based on the current market. 

I think anyone could, but that does not make it so that the player would be sold for that value. Accfording to CIES (https://www.football-observatory.com/-values-123187), Kevin De Bruyne is worth:

Do you really think Man City would sell him for that price?

21 minutes ago, DP said:

At the moment the game is saying ‘Declan Rice’s value? Oh he’s not for sale’. It’s answering the wrong question. He has a market value based on someone’s opinion. 

I see what you mean, but at the same time this info is only for the user, and what worth is it if that's an arbitrary price that West Ham would never come close to selling him for? So if he has been shown to be worth £70m or whatever, and West Ham consider him so important that they would negotiate to £250m if you were to offer £60m. I don't think most players would find that £70m tag valuable at all...

21 minutes ago, DP said:

I get the way the game is currently set up, the ‘value’ is a range of what the club will sell him for but older (very old) versions of CM/FM were not like this. Shearer and Ronaldo were ‘valued’ by the game at £15m. Were they for sale though? No. 

The game goes outside the values in cases where the selling club either overrate or underrate their player. So a player with the value of £5-10m, might sell for £2m or they would not be willing to sell for under £25m based on circumstances. But the game gives the general idea that his value should be around £5-10m in general.

In the old games Shearer would be valued at £15m, but you would be unable to make an offer for him since that's how the game worked then. That's why SI changed it into "negotiate into absurd prices" and then that was wrong too...

[DP]

23 minutes ago, HUNT3R said:

There's enough already to tell how good a player is. You can see a player's attributes, your scouts will tell you how good he his and give you a scout report on his personality, hidden attributes etc. Analysts can also get involved in telling you how good a player is. I don't see what market value adds to this.

Fine as an opinion. I personally preferred having a ‘market’ value assessment of how much the player is worth. Has been like this in previous iterations.