The Jack Grealish (and occasionally England) Thread: It's coming home attempt 5782570

[Barry Cartman]

1 hour ago, EnterUsernameHere said:

Busquets/Pedri/Koke isn't better than Phillips/Rice/Mount? Wake up.

No

Pedri is 18, had a great tournament, but suddenly he's better than Mount/Grealish/Foden, and we overrate our young players too soon 

Busquets hasn't been the same player for years, had an OK tournament, would probably still have him ahead of Rice or Phillips 

Koke isn't an improvement on our midfield at all, we just play 2 holding players

The idea that Spain have this superior midfield than us and that's how they controlled Italy is rubbish, they played with a false 9 and packed the midfield and Italy struggled to cope with it 

They had 70% of the ball against Italy and did nothing with it 

[Baptista_8]

Did nothing with it? They created plenty of chances. It wasn't just possession for the sake of possession, a lot of it was incisive passing through the lines and possession in dangerous areas.

[aggressive minor]

Kane also drops into midfield a lot for England too tbf, regarding one of the earlier points. 

[Baptista_8]

2 hours ago, craigcwwe said:

Not being bias but I take the England three there. 

Busquets is past it, Koke is a nothing player, Pedri is something special though and the best of the 6 there but on the whole, England's midfield for me.

Busquets may be past his best, but both him and Rodri are better than Rice and Phillips. Koke didn't have a great tournament, but I wouldn't write him off as a nothing player. And Pedri at 18 is the best of the bunch with the most to his game.

[Barry Cartman]

5 minutes ago, Baptista_8 said:

Did nothing with it? They created plenty of chances. It wasn't just possession for the sake of possession, a lot of it was incisive passing through the lines and possession in dangerous areas.

They had 70% possession and had 1 more shot on target than Italy did 

[Pukey]

14 minutes ago, aggressive minor said:

Kane also drops into midfield a lot for England too tbf, regarding one of the earlier points. 

This will be an important factor in the game I feel. Spain's goal was created with Morata dropping deep, if we get it right with Sterling and Saka (or Sancho or Rashford or anyone else quick) running in behind we can create chances.

I think we'll see Mount pressing on Jorginho a lot to try and prevent him dictating, Rice and Phillips probably quite a bit deeper to limit spaces for the others to pass into, and try feed Kane to create from deep. He was rubbish at this in the group stages but he's proper turned it on in the knockouts now, hopefully we can create similar to the goal against Denmark.

Obviously this makes it sound a lot easier than it will be  

[EnterUsernameHere]

So strikers missing chances means their midfield wasn’t as good? Ok then.

Wasn’t just against Italy. They created a bucketload of chances in every game.

[aggressive minor]

Rice and Phillips are good and I think they've played as well as they can. But England will be so much better in the centre when Bellingham matures. 

 

[EnterUsernameHere]

6 minutes ago, Pukey said:

This will be an important factor in the game I feel. Spain's goal was created with Morata dropping deep, if we get it right with Sterling and Saka (or Sancho or Rashford or anyone else quick) running in behind we can create chances.

I think we'll see Mount pressing on Jorginho a lot to try and prevent him dictating, Rice and Phillips probably quite a bit deeper to limit spaces for the others to pass into, and try feed Kane to create from deep. He was rubbish at this in the group stages but he's proper turned it on in the knockouts now, hopefully we can create similar to the goal against Denmark.

Obviously this makes it sound a lot easier than it will be  

Yeah I see it that way too.

As I said, even though England’s midfield isn’t as good (disagree if you want), it won’t be the deciding factor of the game. 

[aggressive minor]

Rice is one player I still can't fully get the hype about. He looks decent when I see him play, but never better. 

[Pukey]

1 minute ago, EnterUsernameHere said:

Yeah I see it that way too.

As I said, even though England’s midfield isn’t as good (disagree if you want), it won’t be the deciding factor of the game. 

FWIW, it's not that I disagree with Italy's midfield being better. I just think some posts are being harsh on Rice and Phillips who've had really good tournaments. 

[aggressive minor]

1 minute ago, Pukey said:

FWIW, it's not that I disagree with Italy's midfield being better. I just think some posts are being harsh on Rice and Phillips who've had really good tournaments. 

I think they have both played well and have made a real contribution to our progress. They should be rightly praised. However, they are limited and it's an area we can improve moving forwards. 

[EnterUsernameHere]

Just now, Pukey said:

FWIW, it's not that I disagree with Italy's midfield being better. I just think some posts are being harsh on Rice and Phillips who've had really good tournaments. 

I don’t think Rice has personally. He’s been about par in most games, I think he could be easily replaced by someone who adds more overall than him. 

He’s disciplined positionally, but that’s about it. I wouldn’t drop him for the final but he’s not exactly playing like a sure fire starter post tournament in my view. He’s playing like a centre back out of position. 

[aggressive minor]

Or EUH said it better regarding Rice. 

[Baptista_8]

35 minutes ago, Barry Cartman said:

They had 70% possession and had 1 more shot on target than Italy did 

I remember at least two golden chances squandered by Oyarzabal. One he failed to even get a shot off, the other one he somehow failed to get on target.

[aggressive minor]

2 minutes ago, aggressive minor said:

I think they have both played well and have made a real contribution to our progress. They should be rightly praised. However, they are limited and it's an area we can improve moving forwards. 

Just to add, having a stronger passer in the area is going to improve our play significantly. Hopefully someday soon.

[themadsheep2001]

Don't think the midfield comparison matters in this regard. They are doing two very different things. Italy will look to control and we will seek to disrupt and play wide and in the half spaces. 

[Pukey]

I'd be very interest to see Phillips as the deeper player and Bellingham in the B2B role in the next couple of years that's for sure. 

[themadsheep2001]

Rice is the kind of DM you want when playing with other creative mids and runners. Always feels like he'd be better in a three

[skybluedave]

Best summer of their lives

 

[The_jagster]

Phillips has had one really good game against Croatia and been fine in other games. Both Denmark and Germany had the edge in midfield in the respective first halves. For what Southgate wants to do Rice has been good.

It reminds me of any Southampton player championed by MLG, for the role they have been given both have done well but ideally you'd have better players there. And then we have linguistic gymnastics as to how they are actually really good in this narrow role we are measuring players by when clearly Verrati and Jorginho are better players.

Last season Phillips was regularly being praised for pinging it wide and I can't say I've noticed that during the Euros, likewise Rice hasn't carried the ball forward much at all, Maguire has done that instead. Clearly they've been told to keep it safe and give it to more creative players.

Edited July 10, 2021 by The_jagster

[aggressive minor]

Speaking of MLG, where is he?

[skybluedave]

10 minutes ago, aggressive minor said:

Speaking of MLG, where is he?

No Southampton players. No party

Another thing to thank Southgate for. And we thought the Grealish fans were a pain... 

Edited July 10, 2021 by skybluedave

[Pukey]

Phillips' instructions are different to his role at Leeds, clearly utilising his energy and pressing more, see:

He absolutely has been playing long passes though. There's been at least 3 brilliant balls I can remember that a poor touch lead to it going nowhere. He also set Mount up with a great ball that I can't find on any bloody highlights because it didn't lead to a great chance in the end.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m000xpmj/euro-2020-replay-england-v-denmark - Basically bang on 61 minutes here in the full replay. He's definitely played quite a few similar balls as well.

Edited July 10, 2021 by Pukey

[skybluedave]

He has had joy with the ball over the top on the turn. Did it against Denmark.

[RTHerringbone]

Wonder how significant Foden's knock is. All I can find from Southgate is "He's got a fairly minor foot injury…..But it's just whether it's going to be one that clears up in time for him to be able to take part in the game, so we'll have to assess that again later."

Obviously it's highly unlikely that he'd have started but he has been a really great asset from the bench so would definitely be a loss to us if we're trying to get a goal or maintain some control later on.

[wkdsoul]

1 minute ago, RTHerringbone said:

Wonder how significant Foden's knock is. All I can find from Southgate is "He's got a fairly minor foot injury…..But it's just whether it's going to be one that clears up in time for him to be able to take part in the game, so we'll have to assess that again later."

Obviously it's highly unlikely that he'd have started but he has been a really great asset from the bench so would definitely be a loss to us if we're trying to get a goal or maintain some control later on.

He'll miss the game according to reports just out. 

[RTHerringbone]

2 minutes ago, wkdsoul said:

He'll miss the game according to reports just out. 

Really? Balls, that's a bit of an arse.

I guess we'll have to make do with Grealish, Sancho and Henderson as options. Could be worse 

[craigcwwe]

2 hours ago, Baptista_8 said:

Busquets may be past his best, but both him and Rodri are better than Rice and Phillips. Koke didn't have a great tournament, but I wouldn't write him off as a nothing player. And Pedri at 18 is the best of the bunch with the most to his game.

I disagree on the first part.

If Koke was English there'd be loads of posts about 'what does he do' etc. He's not better than Rice or Phillips. He wouldn't get in our team. 

And Pedri, yeah, agreed, I said he was the best of the lot out of those mentioned.

[wkdsoul]

15 minutes ago, RTHerringbone said:

Really? Balls, that's a bit of an arse.

I guess we'll have to make do with Grealish, Sancho and Henderson as options. Could be worse 

Slipping Hendo in as a game changer... 

[enigmatic]

1 hour ago, RTHerringbone said:

Wonder how significant Foden's knock is. All I can find from Southgate is "He's got a fairly minor foot injury…..But it's just whether it's going to be one that clears up in time for him to be able to take part in the game, so we'll have to assess that again later."

Obviously it's highly unlikely that he'd have started but he has been a really great asset from the bench so would definitely be a loss to us if we're trying to get a goal or maintain some control later on.

Just makes the decision to bring on Grealish easier 

[Rob1981]

Amazing.

[Rebs]

Even I'm completely nervous now so god knows how you're handling it @Rob1981  

[The Golden boy]

Radio X just played Three Lions with the commentary pieces from the Denmark SF. Goosebump-inducing.

[Baptista_8]

https://www.instagram.com/reel/CRCXR9dAljJ/?utm_medium=copy_link

Go on Bar'

[BigV]

Baz is loving it isn't he 

[skybluedave]

Get him singing the nationa anthem tomorrow

[skybluedave]

20 minutes ago, Rebs said:

Even I'm completely nervous now so god knows how you're handling it @Rob1981  

Ditto. Starting to freak out a bit now.

Gonna try to relax and enjoy it tomorrow best I can. It's once in a lifetime (so far anyway) so lets just enjoy the silly build up and soak it in. 

[Rebs]

7 minutes ago, skybluedave said:

Ditto. Starting to freak out a bit now.

Gonna try to relax and enjoy it tomorrow best I can. It's once in a lifetime (so far anyway) so lets just enjoy the silly build up and soak it in. 

Yeah definitely, I think even if we lose it won't hurt as bad as say going out at the semi final stage. To be in the final is just amazing and I just want to enjoy it no matter what.

[skybluedave]

Yeah I know people aresaying losing finals are the worst but I'm not fearing the loss as much as the previous rounds. And weirdly it's quite nice knowing that even if we do lose the tournament is over anyway. A odd as that sounds. I find the worst bit when England go out is to then sit through a bunch more games knowing England are out. 

[craigcwwe]

53 minutes ago, Rebs said:

Yeah definitely, I think even if we lose it won't hurt as bad as say going out at the semi final stage. To be in the final is just amazing and I just want to enjoy it no matter what.

I don't get this. Losing a final is worse than getting knocked out at the SF stage to me. 

[arenaross]

Go woke. People like it. 

 

 

[skybluedave]

But I thought it was a pointless gesture that served no purpose?

[Rebs]

1 hour ago, craigcwwe said:

I don't get this. Losing a final is worse than getting knocked out at the SF stage to me. 

No way, at least you've had the occasion...if you get knocked out in the semi then you have had none of it, may as well have gone out at the start.

[Smallen]

Having not had a team to support in a cup final since ‘99 I’d far rather we got to the final and lost* than go out in the semis.

*we won’t 

[EnterUsernameHere]

I wouldn't go as far as saying I'd rather not get to the final than lose it, but a final defeat is crushing. I don't look back and enjoy the semi final wins against Roma in 2018, but I remember the pain of Madrid beating Liverpool in the final.

[Smallen]

It’s a bit different though isn’t it? England haven’t made a final for 55 years. Liverpool make them on a semi-regular basis in various comps. I think we’ll all look back on it favourably.

Especially when we win 3-0.

[Baptista_8]

1 hour ago, craigcwwe said:

I don't get this. Losing a final is worse than getting knocked out at the SF stage to me. 

100%

[EnterUsernameHere]

Yeah probably is, I was speaking generally but every club/country have their own views. 

Generally, I'd rather Liverpool win the CL than PL for example, but until we won it in 2020, the PL was the holy grail.

Edited July 10, 2021 by EnterUsernameHere

[The Amazing Dale Watkins]

43 minutes ago, Rebs said:

No way, at least you've had the occasion...if you get knocked out in the semi then you have had none of it, may as well have gone out at the start.

I don't know, man. Ask the Dutch how fondly they remember 1974, 1978 and 2010.