The Jack Grealish (and occasionally England) Thread: It's coming home attempt 5782570

[Pukey]

Just now, ginnybob said:

As an aside, is it normal for 2 QFs to be played the same day? I might be having a mental block here but I feel like they're usually spread over 4 days.

Yeah it's normal, it means the winners have the same rest as each other when they play in the semi. 

[Yuko]

Just now, Baptista_8 said:

What was the red card incident? Can't remember.

Maybe I'm confusing the tackles and the games, been a lot of football going on. 

But I think it was the Phillips booking. 

[Pukey]

The Phillips red card is definitely borderline but I do think most refs would give the benefit of the doubt with it. He is going for the ball and does get it. Obviously he catches him badly, but partially because his foot rolled over the ball. A red wouldn't have been harsh, but I do genuinely think 90% of refs would go with a yellow.

[Baptista_8]

I can't even remember it properly. Honestly every England game I've watched this Euros feels like a blur, and I've only been drinking during two of them

Edited June 30, 2021 by Baptista_8

[Darren Moores Mum]

4 minutes ago, Pukey said:

Yeah it's normal, it means the winners have the same rest as each other when they play in the semi. 

Looked at the last couple of tournaments and WC 2018 was 2 a day, but Euro 2016 was done over 4 days. A little bit of both then!

[Astafjevs]

I think by doing it on two days it allows the second semifinal winner to get an extra day rest.

Before, the semis were on a Wednesday and Thursday, with the final on Sunday. Was always unfair on the second SF winner. Thursday to Sunday isn't much time at all.

This year they've changed. SFs are on Tuesday and Wednesday, so the second SF winner has that extra day. Much more fair. Wednesday to Sunday is a decent period. 

[Pukey]

4 minutes ago, Baptista_8 said:

I can't even remember it properly. Honestly every England game I've watched this Euros feels like a blur, and I've only been drinking during two of them

https://streamable.com/g0kufc

It's one VAR won't overturn either way. You can see it's absolutely a genuine attempt at the ball and he's not ridiculously forceful. But he catches him badly of course and a red wouldn't exactly be the most controversial decision ever, but I think yellow is fair.

1 minute ago, ginnybob said:

Looked at the last couple of tournaments and WC 2018 was 2 a day, but Euro 2016 was done over 4 days. A little bit of both then!

Probably just depends on the tournament then I suppose. But at least we're both right I quite like having 2 games a day tbf. 

[Heartwork]

One thing that could benefit us is how many other games went to extra time. Could be some tired legs out there for Ukraine. Technically England could swap out the entire front three to Foden, Rashford and Sancho and still be a threat.

[Darren Moores Mum]

2 minutes ago, Pukey said:

Probably just depends on the tournament then I suppose. But at least we're both right I quite like having 2 games a day tbf. 

Just glad I wasn't imagining it

Probably makes sense now that the Euros has an extra round of knockouts to make it in line with the WC. Euro 2016 will probably just be an anomaly going forward with this format.

Edited June 30, 2021 by ginnybob

[Barry Cartman]

Yeah I saw the Phillips one again last night on the highlights and thought that could easily have been a Red card

You need luck in tournaments and we certainly got ours yesterday thankfully 

[m_fenton]

Phillips, Rice, Foden, Maguire each 1 yellow away from missing the semi-final (were we to get there). Wonder if we might see one of Phillips and Rice rested so as not to risk them both being out at the same time.

[Baptista_8]

Not a red IMO

[Pukey]

11 minutes ago, m_fenton said:

Phillips, Rice, Foden, Maguire each 1 yellow away from missing the semi-final (were we to get there). Wonder if we might see one of Phillips and Rice rested so as not to risk them both being out at the same time.

I think Henderson might play against Ukraine because of this. Doesn't weaken the squad in any significant way, as much as I think Rice and Phillips has worked brilliantly. Mings has played well, but would he want to rest Maguire? Not sure. It's an interesting call either way.

[craigcwwe]

12 hours ago, Haguey said:

That's a truly incredible stat, but I think it's actually nine whole managers 

Big Sam - lol
Hodgson - Euro 2016 - 0, WC 2014 - 0, Euro 2012 - 0
Capello - WC 2010 - 0
McClaren - lol
Sven, Sven, Sven - WC 2006 - 1, Euro 2004 - 0, WC 2002 - 1
Keegan - Euro 2000 - 0
Hoddle - WC 1998 - 0
Venables - Euro 1996 - 1
Taylor - Euro 1992 - 0

Sir Gareth - WC 2018 - 2, Euro 2020 - 1

We know it's been bad but christ, seeing it written down like that...awful. Shameful really. 

We've got Gareth now though who is leading us out of the international wilderness. 

1 hour ago, Lucas said:

For me it was panic, screams of "no no no" in anticipation, to instant laughing and jeering as the shot went wide  

Seeing Muller run right through the middle.

1 hour ago, ginnybob said:

Must help when the players are unencumbered by the baggage of history with Germany from a personal perspective. Barely any of them were born or can have much of a recollection of Euro 96 at the time, let alone 1990. Sure they know what it means to beat Germany but it feels a lot different. Just went about their business in an orderly fashion, like it was any other game.

Yep. I said the same before the game yesterday. It can't have not helped us really. 

1 hour ago, Coulthard's Jaw said:

I gained 20 years near the start when I thought Rice was getting a red card.

When the ref went to his pocket and you could see the red card right there..oooooff. 

1 hour ago, Yuko said:

Shaw, Grealish and Pickford were the only guys who showed up. It was a pretty bad game that a goal would have decided, but the result is what counts. 

Ukraine game will be tricky, but it could also end up being a field trip. I wonder what the attendance figures will be like since it's in Rome and both teams are non-EU now, covid quarantines etc. Think Italy has a 5 day quarantine regime for non-EU arrivals or something. 

Maguire and Stones were very good yesterday, to say we only had three players who 'showed up' is a bit much really. 

UK Government have said for fans not to travel to Rome for the game fwiw. 

Edited June 30, 2021 by craigcwwe

[Astafjevs]

England can play anyone against Ukraine. It doesn't matter, they're going to win. Same for the SF. They're a far better team and that will show.

The only way they don't is if they get a bad refereeing decision, or a player does something stupid and gets sent off. Or a combination of the two.

[Rob1981]

36 minutes ago, ginnybob said:

As an aside, is it normal for 2 QFs to be played the same day? I might be having a mental block here but I feel like they're usually spread over 4 days.

Euro 2016 they played the four quarter finals over four consecutive nights. But this meant that the whole of the R16 was squashed into three nights instead of four. They played three R16 games on the Saturday, three R16 games on the Sunday and two R16 games on the Monday. Three R16 games in one day is too much imho, when there is a risk that 2-3 might go to extra time.

Much prefer this year’s format which is the same as the World Cup. Two games a day when it gets to the knockouts. R16 from Saturday to Tuesday, then quarters over two days.

[arenaross]

 

 

[themadsheep2001]

5 minutes ago, Astafjevs said:

England can play anyone against Ukraine. It doesn't matter, they're going to win. Same for the SF. They're a far better team and that will show.

The only way they don't is if they get a bad refereeing decision, or a player does something stupid and gets sent off. Or a combination of the two.

We shouldn't be complacent, but agree here. We should be able to rest 2-3 players and clear cards before the semi final

[craigcwwe]

So....like....did we really beat Germany.....Germany! yesterday in KO game in a tournament?!? 

[Heartwork]

Sky having a mare

[Barry Cartman]

This one brought a smile from L'Equipe 

 

[Astafjevs]

Don't see what's wrong with those ratings

[craigcwwe]

That feeling when you know it's coming home

[Barry Cartman]

England Knockout wins since 1966

1. Paraguay (1986)
2. Belgium (1990)
3. Cameroon (1990)
4. Spain (1996)
5. Denmark (2002)
6.  Ecuador (2006)
7. Colombia (2018) - Southgate
8. Sweden (2018) - Southgate
9. Germany (2021) - Southgate

So Southgate is now responsible for 1/3 of all our knockout wins since 1966  

If we win Euro2020, he'll be responsible for half 

[Heartwork]

17 minutes ago, Barry Cartman said:

This one brought a smile from L'Equipe 

 

I think the 4 for Saka is a bit harsh. But otherwise feels pretty fair from a neutral source. Neuer might deserve better than a 4 too because he did make some good saves.

Edited June 30, 2021 by Heartwork

[Rob1981]

25 minutes ago, Heartwork said:

Sky having a mare

Shaw on 6  

[Heartwork]

Just now, Rob1981 said:

Shaw on 6  

Walker too, despite coming to the rescue several times.

[Yuko]

1 hour ago, Pukey said:

https://streamable.com/g0kufc

In the world of VAR, that's a blatant red card and an unforgivable ommission. We've seen reds given for softer hits. 

 

Not sure what the German press is going on about the incident or the refereeing in general, but if it were another nation they'd be complaining that a Dutch ref was appointed here

[Yuko]

23 minutes ago, Barry Cartman said:

England Knockout wins since 1966

1. Paraguay (1986)
2. Belgium (1990)
3. Cameroon (1990)
4. Spain (1996)
5. Denmark (2002)
6.  Ecuador (2006)
7. Colombia (2018) - Southgate
8. Sweden (2018) - Southgate
9. Germany (2021) - Southgate

So Southgate is now responsible for 1/3 of all our knockout wins since 1966  

If we win Euro2020, he'll be responsible for half 

Not sure if that's impressive or the rest of it being criminally unimpressive for a natiok of England's stature

[SouthCoastRed]

25 minutes ago, Barry Cartman said:

England Knockout wins since 1966

1. Paraguay (1986)
2. Belgium (1990)
3. Cameroon (1990)
4. Spain (1996)
5. Denmark (2002)
6.  Ecuador (2006)
7. Colombia (2018) - Southgate
8. Sweden (2018) - Southgate
9. Germany (2021) - Southgate

So Southgate is now responsible for 1/3 of all our knockout wins since 1966  

If we win Euro2020, he'll be responsible for half 

If at you look wins in 90 mins it’s even better with 2/5 being down to Sir Gareth

[Pukey]

34 minutes ago, Heartwork said:

Sky having a mare

Shaw a 6 ffs  He was absolutely vital for both goals, that alone warrants a higher score and he wasn't exactly bad otherwise.

5 minutes ago, Yuko said:

In the world of VAR, that's a blatant red card and an unforgivable ommission. We've seen reds given for softer hits. 

Don't agree at all, it's one VAR will always stick with the ref's decision. His force isn't overly excessive, and you can see he wins the ball, but rolls over it. If a red is given it's not harsh, but there's not enough there to overturn a yellow card decision. He's not ridiculously out of control or anything like with the Sweden one.

[skybluedave]

52 minutes ago, Barry Cartman said:

This one brought a smile from L'Equipe 

 

Does anyone have the ratings for the France/Swiss game? 

[Barry Cartman]

9 minutes ago, skybluedave said:

Does anyone have the ratings for the France/Swiss game? 

[Barry Cartman]

27 minutes ago, Pukey said:

Shaw a 6 ffs  He was absolutely vital for both goals

They gave Grealish an 8 for literally passing a ball to Shaw and then a good cross to Kane, which makes the Shaw one nonsense 

[m_fenton]

40 minutes ago, Yuko said:

In the world of VAR, that's a blatant red card and an unforgivable ommission. We've seen reds given for softer hits. 

Not sure what the German press is going on about the incident or the refereeing in general, but if it were another nation they'd be complaining that a Dutch ref was appointed here

The replay if anything shows Kroos going in just as dangerously as Phillips, if not more so because he goes with a straight leg instead of bent:

 

[Baptista_8]

Xhaka a 6...WTF

[The_jagster]

Rating Shaw a 6 is harsh but the other ratings are fair, Saka has a "new to the team" bonus meaning any time he looks promising he gets given leeway a senior player doesn't. L'Equipr have given something like 7 10/10s ever, and are one of the few outlets to give people deserved low scores.

 

2 hours ago, Barry Cartman said:

nah Stones has to go and wipe Havertz out and risk the Red, its the 80th minute of the game, he might even had made a clean tackle but its his indecision that kills him

and Walker probably gets back to make the tackle if he doesn't have to shove Stones out of the way  incredible speed 

Mad that Stones gets blamed for not taking a red card rather than the person that blunders and puts Germany in a 2 Vs 1

2 hours ago, Pukey said:

Phillips assumes Stones is going for it as well, so he slows up. Which he shouldn't do of course, but Stones indecision did give us an issue. But hey ho, it happens and we got away with it so don't need to dwell on it too much.

He's a good commentator, shame he's usually paired with god awful pundits.

He is fine as long as he steers clear of prepared gags, which he does far too often now

17 minutes ago, Baptista_8 said:

Xhaka a 6...WTF

He could have been sent off and was lucky the ref took pity on a booked player, although I think a higher score would be fair.

[Barry Cartman]

6 minutes ago, The_jagster said:

Mad that Stones gets blamed for not taking a red card rather than the person that blunders and puts Germany in a 2 Vs 1

Sterling gets tackled in Germany's final 3rd, if the ball ends up in the back of the net from there, other mistakes need to have happened and Stones not going for the ball would certainly have been one of them.

As already said, look at Maguire as well, he just watches as the move unfolds, and then Muller just runs away infront of him and he doesn't react at all 

[Crispypaul]

46 minutes ago, Barry Cartman said:

Hugo on a 7 after shipping 3 goals and saving no penalties? More than Sommer?

[Yuko]

Just now, Crispypaul said:

Hugo on a 7 after shipping 3 goals and saving no penalties? More than Sommer?

He literally saved a penalty. 

[enigmatic]

24 minutes ago, m_fenton said:

The replay if anything shows Kroos going in just as dangerously as Phillips, if not more so because he goes with a straight leg instead of bent:

 

Yep. Standard 50/50 challenge really, both of their initial angles are a bit risky but not high enough to be dangerous 

Clumsy by Phillips because his foot rolls up and catches Kroos which earns him the card, but it actually rolls up because he isn't using excessive force: most of his weight's on his back leg. Ref also had the perfect angle to sees Phillips' foot slid over Kroos' ankle rather than being planted into it

[SouthCoastRed]

1 minute ago, Crispypaul said:

Hugo on a 7 after shipping 3 goals and saving no penalties? More than Sommer?

That’s for the penalty save in the game I assume

[The_jagster]

4 minutes ago, Barry Cartman said:

Sterling gets tackled in Germany's final 3rd, if the ball ends up in the back of the net from there, other mistakes need to have happened and Stones not going for the ball would certainly have been one of them.

As already said, look at Maguire as well, he just watches as the move unfolds, and then Muller just runs away infront of him and he doesn't react at all 

Maguire is fair enough, you can tell Stones is thinking that Havertz gets to it first so if he dives in Havertz can put it past him to Muller, he can try for the red card and still concede.

It's just classic Sterling, does some great stuff and does some unwise things like carrying it back towards goal when pressured and everyone is upfield. Maybe no-one was offering him a decent ball but it is still his error.

[Barry Cartman]

1 minute ago, Crispypaul said:

Hugo on a 7 after shipping 3 goals and saving no penalties? More than Sommer?

He saved a penalty during the game 

[Barry Cartman]

Just now, The_jagster said:

Maguire is fair enough, you can tell Stones is thinking that Havertz gets to it first so if he dives in Havertz can put it past him to Muller, he can try for the red card and still concede.

It's just classic Sterling, does some great stuff and does some unwise things like carrying it back towards goal when pressured and everyone is upfield. Maybe no-one was offering him a decent ball but it is still his error.

I didn't mean Sterling is blameless, I said had it gone in, I think people would be all over Stones as well for not going for the ball/risking the Red

[Smallen]

Maguire should've stepped across Muller and taken the yellow card at that point. 

[enigmatic]

Not sure there's any point in the attack where Maguire is actually in front of Muller, and not sure there's any point except when we first lose the ball Maguire's actually close enough to foul him. Even if he recognises that Stones is going to have to vacate the space Muller is sprinting towards I'm not sure he has the recovery pace to get there.

[darren1983]

35 minutes ago, Smallen said:

Maguire should've stepped across Muller and taken the yellow card at that point. 

Was already on a yellow by then though. Think had he not been he would have taken a yellow there 

[Smallen]

6 minutes ago, darren1983 said:

Was already on a yellow by then though. Think had he not been he would have taken a yellow there 

Fair point, forgot about his yellow a couple of minutes before. 

[XuluBak]

2 hours ago, Barry Cartman said:

This one brought a smile from L'Equipe 

 

 

2 hours ago, Astafjevs said:

Don't see what's wrong with those ratings

I'd say it's harsh on Germany, Havertz especially. He was comfortably the best (attacking) player on the pitch for either side until Grealish came on. Ginter was dreadful, and really haven't understood his selection throughout, but that's an awful lot of 2s/3s/4s for a match that was leaning Germany until the subs at ~70 minutes. As much as Grealish coming on for Saka helped England, I thought Gnabry coming on for Werner hurt Germany. Neuer wasn't great, but don't know that he did anything to be knocked down to a four. Kroos was largely invisible. Kimmich and Gosens nearly connected early, but were largely ineffective. Germany desperately needs the former playing inside, and while the latter is extremely effective for Atalanta, what makes him so effective was killing Germany in this tourney. 

Even with the goal, that's probably generous for Kane.  He was so poor for most of the match, English fans on this forum were literally wishing him injured (on the clash of knees) so Rashford would come on. They were also screaming at Sterling for not passing and giving the ball away, although, given Kane's complete lack of movement, no threat from midfield, etc., I'm not entirely sure what else he was supposed to do. 

He might have been a little lucky before halftime, but I think Phillips was arguably MoTM, so would probably knock him up to an 8.

Rice was absolutely lucky to not be sent off. And probably England's worst player aside from Kane. Trippier and Saka were pretty underwhelming as well.