known issue Youth Intake Broken Just Like Beta

[jt361]

Youth intake gets lower and lower every year. Some countries (especially unloaded ones) do not produce a youth intake at all, even major nations like Brazil and Argentina.

[Andrew James]

This is a known issue and one we're looking to get fixed ASAP 

[1891]

Will a fix to this require a new save or will it work on existing saves too?

[Zizu00]

I would like to know this too.Otherwise I can also delete my savegame.Make no sense

[Andrew James]

Hi, I believe a fix for this would be save game compatible, yes 

[Domoboy23]

Very well done on reporting and spotting this. This would've been crushing on my journeyman!

 

Hoping this is a save game compatible fix

[Mojo_Pin]

How was this not noticed before releasing the game? I basically cannot start playing FM the only way I enjoy playing due to this.

Had I known about this I would not have purchased FM 21 and instead waited until it had been fixed.

Edited November 27, 2020 by Mojo_Pin

[PequenoGenio]

[PequenoGenio]

The HotFix for this is online!!!!

[kertiek]

i really hope the fix "- Specific tweaks and updates to Brexit and work permit rules in-game"

is save compatible too

[Andrew James]

The latest update contains a fix for this issue. We’ve increased the leniency for top clubs’ player count in non-playable leagues which should increase the likelihood of certain clubs receiving youth intakes each year.

The fix is save game compatible but this doesn’t mean that loads of new newgens will start appearing in all nations in your save straight away. Newgens have a pre-generation date around 3 months before they appear in game, so the fix will apply to the next pre-generation dates, rather than next intake date.

I also want to clarify that the amount of newgens that generate in the first season in non-playable leagues shouldn’t be expected every season. We use newgens to replace retiring players and keep the overall player count relatively consistent, in FM21 there are more retirements than usual in the first season, which we think is a result of more free agents at game start and the COVID 19 financial implications meaning many clubs won’t offer as many contracts. So after the inflated first season intakes, the game balances out and the player count in these inactive leagues is deemed acceptable and therefore they may not receive intakes again for some time.

We are restricted in the amount of players we can add to non-playable leagues, and the numbers in these leagues are intentionally much lower. If you want to guarantee high numbers of newgens from a specific nation, then you’ll need to add that nation as a playable league, which can be done at the start of a new game, or midway through a save via the dropdown menu.

This will likely require some further tweaks and we think there are still some issues with total player count 10+ years into saves, we’re working hard to iron these out and any future fixes will be save game compatible too.

Hopefully that all makes sense! If you have any questions, please feel free to ask.

Thanks again for your patience.

[Double0Seven]

10 minutes ago, Andrew James said:

The latest update contains a fix for this issue. We’ve increased the leniency for top clubs’ player count in non-playable leagues which should increase the likelihood of certain clubs receiving youth intakes each year.

The fix is save game compatible but this doesn’t mean that loads of new newgens will start appearing in all nations in your save straight away. Newgens have a pre-generation date around 3 months before they appear in game, so the fix will apply to the next pre-generation dates, rather than next intake date.

I also want to clarify that the amount of newgens that generate in the first season in non-playable leagues shouldn’t be expected every season. We use newgens to replace retiring players and keep the overall player count relatively consistent, in FM21 there are more retirements than usual in the first season, which we think is a result of more free agents at game start and the COVID 19 financial implications meaning many clubs won’t offer as many contracts. So after the inflated first season intakes, the game balances out and the player count in these inactive leagues is deemed acceptable and therefore they may not receive intakes again for some time.

We are restricted in the amount of players we can add to non-playable leagues, and the numbers in these leagues are intentionally much lower. If you want to guarantee high numbers of newgens from a specific nation, then you’ll need to add that nation as a playable league, which can be done at the start of a new game, or midway through a save via the dropdown menu.

This will likely require some further tweaks and we think there are still some issues with total player count 10+ years into saves, we’re working hard to iron these out and any future fixes will be save game compatible too.

Hopefully that all makes sense! If you have any questions, please feel free to ask.

Thanks again for your patience.

I have a question thats maybe related or maybe not im not sure. There were some people who noticed there were too many world class players in the future. Was this actually intended or also a side effect of this youth intake bug? 

https://community.sigames.com/topic/539929-world-class-players-inflation/

 

[Andrew James]

4 minutes ago, Double0Seven said:

I have a question thats maybe related or maybe not im not sure. There were some people who noticed there were too many world class players in the future. Was this actually intended or also a side effect of this youth intake bug? 

I don't think this is related but thank you for drawing my attention to it. If there's an issue with too many high PA players then it would be a generation issue, but if the problem is too many high CA players, then the issue is more likely related to Progression. I'll look into it 

[1891]

If you load all players from a specific non-active nations, or as in my case - all players from Asia and Africa, will the game be able to replace players who retire now? Or will the amount of players in those countries continue to decline during the years?

[Daveincid]

vor 1 Minute schrieb Andrew James:

I don't think this is related but thank you for drawing my attention to it. If there's an issue with too many high PA players then it would be a generation issue, but if the problem is too many high CA players, then the issue is more likely related to Progression. I'll look into it 

Is the goal to retain the amount of let's say 180+ PA-players in the future or is a slight increase or even more the way the game should be? 

[Platinum]

27 minutes ago, Andrew James said:

The latest update contains a fix for this issue. We’ve increased the leniency for top clubs’ player count in non-playable leagues which should increase the likelihood of certain clubs receiving youth intakes each year.

The fix is save game compatible but this doesn’t mean that loads of new newgens will start appearing in all nations in your save straight away. Newgens have a pre-generation date around 3 months before they appear in game, so the fix will apply to the next pre-generation dates, rather than next intake date.

I also want to clarify that the amount of newgens that generate in the first season in non-playable leagues shouldn’t be expected every season. We use newgens to replace retiring players and keep the overall player count relatively consistent, in FM21 there are more retirements than usual in the first season, which we think is a result of more free agents at game start and the COVID 19 financial implications meaning many clubs won’t offer as many contracts. So after the inflated first season intakes, the game balances out and the player count in these inactive leagues is deemed acceptable and therefore they may not receive intakes again for some time.

We are restricted in the amount of players we can add to non-playable leagues, and the numbers in these leagues are intentionally much lower. If you want to guarantee high numbers of newgens from a specific nation, then you’ll need to add that nation as a playable league, which can be done at the start of a new game, or midway through a save via the dropdown menu.

This will likely require some further tweaks and we think there are still some issues with total player count 10+ years into saves, we’re working hard to iron these out and any future fixes will be save game compatible too.

Hopefully that all makes sense! If you have any questions, please feel free to ask.

Thanks again for your patience.

I'd prefer to wait until the tweaks have been sorted as I like to do long saves. Could you provide an initial estimate on when I can expect this  fix as Ive already bought the game so just want to have a rough indiciation on when I can expect start my save. I accept that any estimate could be completely wrong.

Edited December 2, 2020 by francis#17

[Platinum]

35 minutes ago, Andrew James said:

The latest update contains a fix for this issue. We’ve increased the leniency for top clubs’ player count in non-playable leagues which should increase the likelihood of certain clubs receiving youth intakes each year.

The fix is save game compatible but this doesn’t mean that loads of new newgens will start appearing in all nations in your save straight away. Newgens have a pre-generation date around 3 months before they appear in game, so the fix will apply to the next pre-generation dates, rather than next intake date.

I also want to clarify that the amount of newgens that generate in the first season in non-playable leagues shouldn’t be expected every season. We use newgens to replace retiring players and keep the overall player count relatively consistent, in FM21 there are more retirements than usual in the first season, which we think is a result of more free agents at game start and the COVID 19 financial implications meaning many clubs won’t offer as many contracts. So after the inflated first season intakes, the game balances out and the player count in these inactive leagues is deemed acceptable and therefore they may not receive intakes again for some time.

We are restricted in the amount of players we can add to non-playable leagues, and the numbers in these leagues are intentionally much lower. If you want to guarantee high numbers of newgens from a specific nation, then you’ll need to add that nation as a playable league, which can be done at the start of a new game, or midway through a save via the dropdown menu.

This will likely require some further tweaks and we think there are still some issues with total player count 10+ years into saves, we’re working hard to iron these out and any future fixes will be save game compatible too.

Hopefully that all makes sense! If you have any questions, please feel free to ask.

Thanks again for your patience.

Another question is that I know this affects non playable leaves but it seemed to have a knock on affect on playable leagues such as the Man Utd example you had responded to in a different thread. Will this still happen?

[Pattric_b]

I holidayed the 2026-2027 season after the update to see and nations like Croatia, Serbia, USA, Denmark, Greece, etc are still not bringing in youth players to any clubs at all and haven't since the start of the save game. These nations are not playable, but I figured they would generate some players. My total player count also dropped by 2k.

Edited December 2, 2020 by Pattric_b

[Andrew James]

21 hours ago, Daveincid said:

Is the goal to retain the amount of let's say 180+ PA-players in the future or is a slight increase or even more the way the game should be? 

We aim to keep around the same amount, but a slight increase is preferable to decrease. 

22 hours ago, 1891 said:

If you load all players from a specific non-active nations, or as in my case - all players from Asia and Africa, will the game be able to replace players who retire now? Or will the amount of players in those countries continue to decline during the years?

Unfortunately cases like this are still likely to experience some decline. We're working on a fix for these Advanced Setups too, which would also be save game compatible. 

14 hours ago, Pattric_b said:

I holidayed the 2026-2027 season after the update to see and nations like Croatia, Serbia, USA, Denmark, Greece, etc are still not bringing in youth players to any clubs at all and haven't since the start of the save game. These nations are not playable, but I figured they would generate some players. My total player count also dropped by 2k.

Could you provide some more info on how many playable leagues you have, and what your total player count was before/after this season, please?

 

21 hours ago, francis#17 said:

Another question is that I know this affects non playable leaves but it seemed to have a knock on affect on playable leagues such as the Man Utd example you had responded to in a different thread. Will this still happen?

There should also be improvements to the intakes in playable leagues. We're looking to make some further tweaks for very long term saves (10+ years) which should improve things even more, and those fixes will also be save game compatible. 

[Nahuelzn]

Hi @Andrew James, in a similar note, I want to know if this is working as intended or should I report it as a bug. The first batch of newgens for youth teams (when you start a new save), all have between 15 and 16 years. No newgen is generated with 17,18 or 19 years in the youth teams. No matter how you set up the custom league (for example, u20), or the minimium age in advanced rules. 

Is this a known issue, is working as intended or should I report it?

[Daveincid]

vor einer Stunde schrieb Andrew James:

We aim to keep around the same amount, but a slight increase is preferable to decrease.

Due my testing with FM21 with all leagues loaded, there is quite a big increase of very high PA-players (180+) in year 2045. It was quite difficult to verify the results due the genereal newgens-bug.  But IMO the problem itself is less the high PA-players, it's more the fact, that they can reach their PA in most cases.

So the average high CA concerns me much more.  I was able to lower that effect in FM20 with a custom increase of injuries-file aswell as a custom lower-youth ranking-file. So this combination gave me a much better replication of the database at the start vs the future ingame.

I haven't the ressources to create such a huge test for fm21 in a short period of time on my own.  But it would definetly worth testing I can offer one PC with a 3950x to run a specific test if my help is appreciated

 

Cheers

Daveincid

[Andrew James]

4 hours ago, Nahuelzn said:

Hi @Andrew James, in a similar note, I want to know if this is working as intended or should I report it as a bug. The first batch of newgens for youth teams (when you start a new save), all have between 15 and 16 years. No newgen is generated with 17,18 or 19 years in the youth teams. No matter how you set up the custom league (for example, u20), or the minimium age in advanced rules.

To clarify, are you using custom rules in the editor? If so, it's probably a question to ask in The Editor subforum.

3 hours ago, Daveincid said:

But IMO the problem itself is less the high PA-players, it's more the fact, that they can reach their PA in most cases.

In this case it would be a progression issue rather than generation. Feel free to post any figures in a new forum thread regarding this and it's certainly something we can look into 

[Pattric_b]

6 hours ago, Andrew James said:

We aim to keep around the same amount, but a slight increase is preferable to decrease. 

Unfortunately cases like this are still likely to experience some decline. We're working on a fix for these Advanced Setups too, which would also be save game compatible. 

Could you provide some more info on how many playable leagues you have, and what your total player count was before/after this season, please?

 

There should also be improvements to the intakes in playable leagues. We're looking to make some further tweaks for very long term saves (10+ years) which should improve things even more, and those fixes will also be save game compatible. 

The player count dropped from 88k to 86k. I have 27 playable leagues loaded. Before I started the save, I loaded all international players from North america, south america, asia and africa. So the total player count when I started was actually higher than 88k but I can't remember an exact number. I only noticed this was happening after discovering the various threads. 

[Nahuelzn]

4 hours ago, Andrew James said:

To clarify, are you using custom rules in the editor? If so, it's probably a question to ask in The Editor subforum.

I'm using the editor but just to enable the league. I later tried to edit with advanced rules the generation of newgens (you can set the minimium age) but it also bypass it. That lends me to think it's a kind of bug, but I want to be sure.

[Xavier Lukhas]

Il y a 23 heures, Nahuelzn a dit :

I'm using the editor but just to enable the league. I later tried to edit with advanced rules the generation of newgens (you can set the minimium age) but it also bypass it. That lends me to think it's a kind of bug, but I want to be sure.

When the save is generated for the first time and especially if you've used "Add Players To Playable Teams", youngsters may be older than whatever value was set for minimum age in the Transfer Rule. However and after that and in every subsequent youth intake, the age of the newgens should be based on that setting. If it's left unticked, by default the age is 16, so newgens should always be 15-16 years old on intake day. But if you say that modifying this setting doesn't work (like putting 14 years old or 18 years old but newgens are still generated with an age of 16), then I would qualify that as a bug.

To be honest, 16 is a good age for a newgen: it gives enough time to train them a bit and fix their obvious flaws without too much pressure. When a player hits, 18yo they really need match time in official games to progress and training won't be enough anymore. So a two to three years buffer zone is nice. You're not pressured to play or loan a player who needs his fundamentals sorted out, but you're not also waiting for too long to grow like when you generate them at 14 yo or something.

[Cartopis84]

10 hours ago, Xavier Lukhas said:

When the save is generated for the first time and especially if you've used "Add Players To Playable Teams", youngsters may be older than whatever value was set for minimum age in the Transfer Rule. However and after that and in every subsequent youth intake, the age of the newgens should be based on that setting. If it's left unticked, by default the age is 16, so newgens should always be 15-16 years old on intake day. But if you say that modifying this setting doesn't work (like putting 14 years old or 18 years old but newgens are still generated with an age of 16), then I would qualify that as a bug.

To be honest, 16 is a good age for a newgen: it gives enough time to train them a bit and fix their obvious flaws without too much pressure. When a player hits, 18yo they really need match time in official games to progress and training won't be enough anymore. So a two to three years buffer zone is nice. You're not pressured to play or loan a player who needs his fundamentals sorted out, but you're not also waiting for too long to grow like when you generate them at 14 yo or something.

I can use this to change the minimum age to like 12 or 13 and then I can get even younger players from my intake?

[Daveincid]

vor 1 Minute schrieb Cartopis84:

I can use this to change the minimum age to like 12 or 13 and then I can get even younger players from my intake?

I think 14 the lowest you can select. But you will mess up the whole database if you do this. Players will have too much time to develop. So a 14yo newgen can be easily a worldbeater with 18, because his CA is too high when he get's generated with 14.

[Xavier Lukhas]

Il y a 2 heures, Cartopis84 a dit :

I can use this to change the minimum age to like 12 or 13 and then I can get even younger players from my intake?

The range is 14-25. Anything older than 18 is hard to develop, and a 14 yo would essentially be the next Rooney in how precocious they are. Sometimes it's even a red flag: you can be suspicious about the physical fitness of a kid who's already played two or three whole seasons of senior football at 16 or 17... 15-16 is a good compromise for most countries, but it may be altered depending of how football is set up in a given nation.

[Nahuelzn]

13 hours ago, Xavier Lukhas said:

When the save is generated for the first time and especially if you've used "Add Players To Playable Teams", youngsters may be older than whatever value was set for minimum age in the Transfer Rule. However and after that and in every subsequent youth intake, the age of the newgens should be based on that setting. If it's left unticked, by default the age is 16, so newgens should always be 15-16 years old on intake day. But if you say that modifying this setting doesn't work (like putting 14 years old or 18 years old but newgens are still generated with an age of 16), then I would qualify that as a bug.

To be honest, 16 is a good age for a newgen: it gives enough time to train them a bit and fix their obvious flaws without too much pressure. When a player hits, 18yo they really need match time in official games to progress and training won't be enough anymore. So a two to three years buffer zone is nice. You're not pressured to play or loan a player who needs his fundamentals sorted out, but you're not also waiting for too long to grow like when you generate them at 14 yo or something.

Thanks for explaining it better. My issue is with that first generated batch of newgens when we start a new saves. They all have 15/16 years and there arent newgens with 17/18/19 years. Which is kind of an issue for me. But don't know if it's working as intended.

[harrycarrie]

Did a test save over 10 years. Literally non-loaded countries are getting zero players. Its insane.

 

2026 with a non-loaded league example:

 

 

Dinamo, three players first youth intake, nothing since. Same in every single non-playable league.

Edited December 5, 2020 by harrycarrie

[freddieos]

@harrycarrie - is that with the latest hotfix (1.3)?

[harrycarrie]

6 hours ago, freddieos said:

@harrycarrie - is that with the latest hotfix (1.3)?

Its with whatever patch/hotfix was out when I posted it, so yeah I believe 1.3

[ATV]

forgive me if this has been answered elsewhere - are newgens generated in leagues that are view-only?

[freddieos]

10 hours ago, ATV said:

forgive me if this has been answered elsewhere - are newgens generated in leagues that are view-only?

Previously no, but apparently a bit better in the latest hotfix. They are still working on it being 100%.

[potbellypigs]

On 05/12/2020 at 20:36, harrycarrie said:

Did a test save over 10 years. Literally non-loaded countries are getting zero players. Its insane.

 

2026 with a non-loaded league example:

 

 

Dinamo, three players first youth intake, nothing since. Same in every single non-playable league.

Well that is pretty much gamebreaking. What a shame to have only read this now, but saves me wasting anymore time.

[jib]

20 hours ago, potbellypigs said:

Well that is pretty much gamebreaking. What a shame to have only read this now, but saves me wasting anymore time.

Absolutely.

Hopefully this is fixed soon, it makes the game unplayable for people who want to play more than a couple of seasons. Fixing it for just playable leagues isnt really a fix unless you can run all the leagues which wont be very many people.

There's been no update from SI in a week on this issue which has to be top of their priorities surely. Would really like an update so I know whether to start a new fm20 save or just wait a couple of days for this to be fixed

Edited December 10, 2020 by jib

[bielsadidnothingwrong]

10 hours ago, jib said:

. Fixing it for just playable leagues isnt really a fix unless you can run all the leagues which wont be very many people.

This thread has gutted me. I started my first journeyman save, had to sim until 2024 (which took hours on my machine) and just finished my first season with a shocker promotion. Now I'm scared the entire "game world" has been handicapped by this awful bug.

 

Hours down the toilet because SI has us doing troubleshooting for them. Really frustrating for us older folks that remember games coming fully ready to go out the box.

[Andrew James]

Quick update on this one:

This issue is a priority and we are still working hard to get it fixed ASAP.

Changes will be save game compatible when they’re ready and will be rolled out at the earliest opportunity. 

It has required some fundamental changes to how newgen generation is approached in inactive leagues, and we hope the result will be a better and more consistent spread of youth intakes across the globe than we’ve ever had in previous versions of FM.

Youth Intake numbers are a very complex and delicate balancing act, and your patience is still greatly appreciated while we try to get this right.

[ratio1618]

8 hours ago, Andrew James said:

Quick update on this one:

This issue is a priority and we are still working hard to get it fixed ASAP.

Changes will be save game compatible when they’re ready and will be rolled out at the earliest opportunity. 

It has required some fundamental changes to how newgen generation is approached in inactive leagues, and we hope the result will be a better and more consistent spread of youth intakes across the globe than we’ve ever had in previous versions of FM.

Youth Intake numbers are a very complex and delicate balancing act, and your patience is still greatly appreciated while we try to get this right.

Thankyou guys fro communicating with us, stuff is getting heated in most threads about this issue and only YOU can prevent forest fires.

Now if you could get a team member do do the same for us Editors that would be amazing, Freddie sands is a tad overwhelmed

[vogado86]

8 hours ago, Andrew James said:

Quick update on this one:

This issue is a priority and we are still working hard to get it fixed ASAP.

Changes will be save game compatible when they’re ready and will be rolled out at the earliest opportunity. 

It has required some fundamental changes to how newgen generation is approached in inactive leagues, and we hope the result will be a better and more consistent spread of youth intakes across the globe than we’ve ever had in previous versions of FM.

Youth Intake numbers are a very complex and delicate balancing act, and your patience is still greatly appreciated while we try to get this right.

And the problems in the leagues in Portugal?

[Nahuelzn]

12 hours ago, Andrew James said:

Quick update on this one:

This issue is a priority and we are still working hard to get it fixed ASAP.

Changes will be save game compatible when they’re ready and will be rolled out at the earliest opportunity. 

It has required some fundamental changes to how newgen generation is approached in inactive leagues, and we hope the result will be a better and more consistent spread of youth intakes across the globe than we’ve ever had in previous versions of FM.

Youth Intake numbers are a very complex and delicate balancing act, and your patience is still greatly appreciated while we try to get this right.

Nice! Will this fix also the age bug for the newgens?

[lukavski]

12 hours ago, Andrew James said:

Quick update on this one:

This issue is a priority and we are still working hard to get it fixed ASAP.

Changes will be save game compatible when they’re ready and will be rolled out at the earliest opportunity. 

It has required some fundamental changes to how newgen generation is approached in inactive leagues, and we hope the result will be a better and more consistent spread of youth intakes across the globe than we’ve ever had in previous versions of FM.

Youth Intake numbers are a very complex and delicate balancing act, and your patience is still greatly appreciated while we try to get this right.

Nice! Thanks for the update.

 

Waiting for the patch to start my save.

[KlaaZ]

12 hours ago, Nahuelzn said:

Nice! Will this fix also the age bug for the newgens?

What age bug? 

[Nahuelzn]

4 hours ago, KlaaZ said:

What age bug? 

This one: https://community.sigames.com/topic/542442-youth-newgens-at-the-start-of-a-save-only-have-1516-years/

[KlaaZ]

2 minutes ago, Nahuelzn said:

This one: https://community.sigames.com/topic/542442-youth-newgens-at-the-start-of-a-save-only-have-1516-years/

Why would that be a bug? It's always been like that as far as I know. 

[Nahuelzn]

1) it bypass the minimum age you set In the rules 

2) for countries than don't have youths created in the database, there is a gap between the first team and the youth teams, so for 3 or 4 seasons, there are almost no new players getting in the first team.

3) You have two leagues, u20 and u17. And you literally only have players with 16 years playing in the u20!

 

And I remember playing in Oman on FM20 with youths with 17/18 years on my first season. So it looks like a bug.

Edited December 12, 2020 by Nahuelzn

[Marbah]

this bug makes my scouts really sad  

[rafaelservo]

any news about the newgens bug?

[HUNT3R]

16 hours ago, rafaelservo said:

any news about the newgens bug?

News was posted higher up a few days ago. 

[ATV]

season 1 with Crystal palace - regens are loading for me in leagues I don't have loaded.

 

I don't have Romania, Poland, Bulgaria loaded.