Attributes literally do not matter in this game

[2calvin]

So here's a goal I just conceded

 

You might think, wow. That left winger for them must be good. High off the ball, first touch, long shots, finishing, technique.

 

It's their centre half.  (why they put the centre half at LW i don't know) WELL i thought i didnt. Until he scored this. So yeah, best inside forward in the game below guys.

[themadsheep2001]

It can happen. If its happening all the time, that's a different story. But as a one off, it doesn't mean anything. Certainly not even close to making your title accurate.

That defender would make a decent centre mid, and hes no slouch

[Grifty]

I doubt a centre back with those attributes scoring '1' would have got that, so attributes literally DO matter in this game.

[themadsheep2001]

1 minute ago, Grifty said:

I doubt a centre back with those attributes scoring '1' would have got that, so attributes literally DO matter in this game.

It wouldn't make him entirely incapable, but yes it would make him a lot less likely to.

He might be a centreback, but his stats aren't entirely awful for hitting something like that as a relative rarity.

[Etebaer]

Attributes do matter though they are not allways decisive and do not prevent occasional overperformances - it is only that the chances to have it happen are low, or high in regard to the Attributes that matter in any given situation.

Edited January 30, 2020 by Etebaer

[2calvin]

44 minutes ago, themadsheep2001 said:

It can happen. If its happening all the time, that's a different story. But as a one off, it doesn't mean anything. Certainly not even close to making your title accurate.

That defender would make a decent centre mid, and hes no slouch

Hey @themadsheep2001

I understand your point but the player in my clip has controlled a 50m pass stone dead with a first touch of 8 and rifled one into the top corner all whilst on the run. Hes just turned into prime R9, all because my tactic was 'wrong' for a second

If i came to you and said "hey mate, i have this regen in the B team that I'm thinking of promoting next year. I need him to play first XI in the Serie A for a title chasing team. He's a natural sweeper so completely untrained in the AML or AMR spots. He's going to play as an inside forward attack though, his finishing is 10 btw. And I'm thinking of launching balls to him with my dlp. His first touch is 8. 

You would think I was crazy?!

[themadsheep2001]

25 minutes ago, 2calvin said:

Hey @themadsheep2001

I understand your point but the player in my clip has controlled a 50m pass stone dead with a first touch of 8 and rifled one into the top corner all whilst on the run. Hes just turned into prime R9, all because my tactic was 'wrong' for a second

If i came to you and said "hey mate, i have this regen in the B team that I'm thinking of promoting next year. I need him to play first XI in the Serie A for a title chasing team. He's a natural sweeper so completely untrained in the AML or AMR spots. He's going to play as an inside forward attack though, his finishing is 10 btw. And I'm thinking of launching balls to him with my dlp. His first touch is 8. 

You would think I was crazy?!

Respectfully, I don't think you are understanding my point. His attributes don't mean he will never do it, He's unlikely to be able to repeatedly do it, doesn't mean he can't get it right on the odd occasion. And it's got nothing to do with your tactic going "wrong for a second" 

How many goals like that has he scored in game?

Most people would not have said Vincent Kompany could do this:

He's not suddenly turned into KDB in midfield, but it doesn't mean in the right circumstance he can't do it.

A one off example of him doing it doesn't mean anything. If hes' doing it 15 times a season, then drop a save game

[2calvin]

1 hour ago, themadsheep2001 said:

And it's got nothing to do with your tactic going "wrong for a second" 

 

Of course it has. My tactic was wrong or exploitable in relation to the AI's tactic in that moment and the game punished me for it. It could have been any tom, dick or harry that scored. Just so happens it was a centre back with 8 off the ball, 8 first touch, 10 finishing. That was the first time Torino have played him LW this season, and in 20 minutes he's scored the goal of his life. Vincent Kompany has been trying to do that his whole Man City career.

You say

1 hour ago, themadsheep2001 said:

but it doesn't mean in the right circumstance he can't do it.

Well then you are agreeing attributes are worthless. As long as i keep creating the right circumstances or situations for this defender he will turn into Mbappe

Edited January 30, 2020 by 2calvin

[StabbyMcGinge]

Dude its one goal you can't extrapolate that. You're telling me CBs can't score worldies? Go look at Maguires goal in the FA cup.

[FrazT]

Low or average attributes in any of the football skills doesn't mean that a player cannot carry out skill levels well beyond their abilities on a one-off basis. Doing that skill level on a regular basis will need attributes to be higher.

This incident taken as a single example doesn't mean anything and no conclusions should be drawn about the effectiveness or otherwise of player attributes.

[Tetsuro P12]

OP is right, Bonucci can't be a Messi, not for a single time, it just lack that quality. Attributes should always matter more, even before scripted engine content. It can't be a matter of chance, but what an element is capable of doing. Chances eventually should be decided by mental attributes.

ME has worsened from that point of view.

Edited January 30, 2020 by Tetsuro P12

[Svenc]

 

People have a complete misconception of what's going on in competitive Football. Any competitive Player is able to kick and Control a ball, for a start. In-game SI have stated they simulate exclusively semi-pro Footballers even at 1s.

That said, In-game I don't think all the extremes are that well represented, in particular technical ones. The reason being that under the Hood, it Comes down to Maths and probability, and Attributes being weighted into the virtual dice rolls of success/failure of any given event. Fifa et all as a serious Simulation have the opposite Problem. Player traits tend to be exaggerated, which makes for more spicey game Play mind, and Players more distinct. If you're Controlling Messi, he feels like a knife cutting through defenses at will; pick Luca Toni, and he controls like a tank. However, it's still exaggerated.

Edited January 30, 2020 by Svenc

[GuitarMan]

23 minutes ago, Tetsuro P12 said:

OP is right, Bonucci can't be a Messi, not for a single time, it just lack that quality. Attributes should always matter more, even before scripted engine content. It can't be a matter of chance, but what an element is capable of doing. Chances eventually should be decided by mental attributes.

ME has worsened from that point of view.

Respectfully I disagree. Players can and do perform above their ability on occasion. Particularly if surrounded by players of a higher calibre. Why else would their be so many transfer flops after players are brought following a rich vein of form in say a World Cup? The player hasn’t suddenly got worse, they are just no longer in a situation where they can over perform.

look at Son’s goal against Burnley the other week. A moment of individual brilliance Messi or Ronaldo would be proud of. Difference is he cannot do it as consistently as Messi or Ronaldo. Therefore he is not on the level of (or have the attributes of) Messi or Ronaldo. However he is still a talented professional footballer who can pull something out the bag once in a blue moon.

[craiigman]

Some of these are FB's not CB's, though that CB you have shown has fairly reasonable attributes, but yes it's possible for defenders to score amazing goals.

 

[Tetsuro P12]

1 hour ago, GuitarMan said:

Respectfully I disagree. Players can and do perform above their ability on occasion. Particularly if surrounded by players of a higher calibre. Why else would their be so many transfer flops after players are brought following a rich vein of form in say a World Cup? The player hasn’t suddenly got worse, they are just no longer in a situation where they can over perform.

look at Son’s goal against Burnley the other week. A moment of individual brilliance Messi or Ronaldo would be proud of. Difference is he cannot do it as consistently as Messi or Ronaldo. Therefore he is not on the level of (or have the attributes of) Messi or Ronaldo. However he is still a talented professional footballer who can pull something out the bag once in a blue moon.

Opinions. I'll never do a Messi's thing, never. Anyway I always respect opinions.

I watched it, he was running straight and shooted. You too can do that.

Now ask Son to do this:

P.S.: Terrible defenders (Burnley), I want to see them in current ME, not current Supermans.

Edited January 30, 2020 by Tetsuro P12

[FlorianAlbert9]

I think that the misunderstanding Is to think that the difference between 1 and 20 Is high.

While a player with 1 in dribbling would look like Messi if he played against us. 

I bet that even the right foot of player like Recoba (if somebody remember him, i think he never used his right foot XD ) would be better of our natural foot.

The only thing i could argue against attributes is that phisically attributes seems always a little overpowered

[Tetsuro P12]

3 minutes ago, FlorianAlbert9 said:

I think that the misunderstanding Is to think that the difference between 1 and 20 Is high.

While a player with 1 in dribbling would look like Messi if he played against us. 

I bet that even the right foot of player like Recoba (if somebody remember him, i think he never used his right foot XD ) would be better of our natural foot.

The only thing i could argue against attributes is that phisically attributes seems always a little overpowered

1 is one. 1 mean stumble. 10 means mediocre, 20 top.

[Carambau]

4 minutes ago, Tetsuro P12 said:

1 is one. 1 mean stumble. 10 means mediocre, 20 top.

You always have to see it in relation to the opposing team, thats the point here.

[Tetsuro P12]

Just now, Carambau said:

You always have to see it in relation to the opposing team, thats the point here.

Though 1 should always stumble. I can say that a 10 would be unable to dribble a 15 marking, but still be somewhat capable of dribbling by itself, a 5 would be uncapable of dribbling despite relations.

[Carambau]

5 minutes ago, Tetsuro P12 said:

Though 1 should always stumble. I can say that a 10 would be unable to dribble a 15 marking, but still be somewhat capable of dribbling by itself, a 5 would be uncapable of dribbling despite relations.

I don´t think it works like that. Attributes always interact/depend on/work with each other, don´t forget that.

Edited January 30, 2020 by Carambau

[Tetsuro P12]

4 minutes ago, Carambau said:

I don´t think it works like that. Attributes always interact/depend on/work with each other, don´t forget that.

It should, otherwise it would be very limited. If a weak player can do wonders against a weak player it's far from reality. You can't really teach technique, there are personal predispositions in every player, some born woody and stay woody, no matter how they train. There are a few defenders with good technique but generally they haven't it; it's not required for the role, and you can't expect them to do a Maradona's thing, not even against the worst player in the planet.

[Carambau]

2 minutes ago, Tetsuro P12 said:

It should, otherwise it would be very limited. If a weak player can do wonders against a weak player it's far from reality. You can't really teach technique, there are personal predispositions in every player, some born woody and stay woody, no matter how they train. There are a few defenders with good technique but generally they haven't it; it's not required for the role, and you can't expect them to do a Maradona's thing, not even against the worst player in the planet.

I saw Guido Buchwald outdribble Diego Maradona at the world cup 1990 and this guy was the stereotype of "wooden"  Football is unpredictable and things like that happen. I actually like it that the game depicts these occasions too.

Edited January 30, 2020 by Carambau

[SipontumFMF]

So, if you concede a goal like this what will you say?

 

Edited January 30, 2020 by SipontumFMF

[themadsheep2001]

This thread is a good example of the misconceptions of attributes in FM, even with clear real world examples

Ultimately you can't draw a definition from one example, no matter how annoyed the OP might be about conceding a goal. 

[FlorianAlbert9]

39 minuti fa, Tetsuro P12 ha scritto:

1 is one. 1 mean stumble. 10 means mediocre, 20 top.

No. That's the mistake.

Because the starting level (1) Is  very bad only in the limited world of FM, that's not rapresentig the lowest level of football.

So, for example, a 1 in strenght doesn't mean a Woody Allen players. But weak for an high Athletic level. 

 

[penza]

I remember though in fm18 where we could not score a free kick no matter what we tried and I created a super player with 20 everywhere, essentially he scored 3 free kicks all year... that makes no sense. In fm17 I did the same test I scored over 30

[Tetsuro P12]

4 hours ago, Carambau said:

I saw Guido Buchwald outdribble Diego Maradona at the world cup 1990 and this guy was the stereotype of "wooden"  Football is unpredictable and things like that happen. I actually like it that the game depicts these occasions too.

In PES?

4 hours ago, SipontumFMF said:

So, if you concede a goal like this what will you say?

 

That's an eurogol, though I doubt that Acerbi can do this (more technical goal):

x  Florian: That would be a very bad limit of current scripted engine; would mean that anyone can be capable of doing anything if against a very weaker player, that would be really bad. I don't know if we are now at that level, but I hope not (I do remember that in old editions non-technical players were unable to do specific moves, eventually my memory tricks me).

Edited January 30, 2020 by Tetsuro P12

[sporadicsmiles]

5 hours ago, Tetsuro P12 said:

OP is right, Bonucci can't be a Messi, not for a single time, it just lack that quality

If you played Bonucci in an identical role to Messi in FM for a full season, Messi would play infinitely better.

5 hours ago, Tetsuro P12 said:

Attributes should always matter more, even before scripted engine content.

There is no scripting to the match engine in the way you are implying here. Attributes matter, but they are not the only thing. Otherwise you could just assemble the best CA team in the world and not even bother to play matches as you know you will win every single game. This is decidedly not what happens in football.

5 hours ago, Tetsuro P12 said:

It can't be a matter of chance, but what an element is capable of doing.

If you think chance plays no role in football, you must live in a world of constant frustration. Chance is one of the most important parts of football.

I do not understand the entire concept of this thread. We see all the time players who we normally think of as being average putting in amazing displays, scoring amazing goals, dominating games when you normally would not expect them to. There are already plenty of examples of this on this thread. It is an obvious part of football, it is not something you can really question.

The underlying current here seems to be that players should never be able play well if their attributes are low. Never score. Never have a great day. Lose every tackle. Which is absolute nonsense. That is contrary to our every day experience of football. Hell, even I have had days where everything I do works perfectly and I just play well. I am sure I am not alone in that. I remember once scoring a 30 yard screamer into the top corner. Never done it before, probably never will again.

I think this is a fundamental misunderstanding of how the game actually works. Attributes determine how good a player is on average. So over the course of a season a player will play more or less to his attributes. You would expect a striker with 20 finishing to outscore a striker with 10 finishing, playing in the same system, over the course of a season. This does not work on the level of a single game, and definitely not on a single passage of play (from which the OP and others are extrapolating here). Here there is much more of a random element. Attributes are only a small part of what is going on in a single game. The way in which players interact with their team mates and the opposition players is vastly important. And add the fact that players can do things like this. They will just do it much rarer than a better player. There is no mystery here, and it is another example of abusing numbers and statistics that I see so often on these forums.

It is annoying to concede such goals, but they happen and it is entirely realistic.

 

[2calvin]

8 hours ago, 2calvin said:

That was the first time Torino have played him LW this season, and in 20 minutes he's scored the goal of his life.

I was being generous by saying 20 minutes. It took him 4 (four)

85:43 I get the message Torino have changed to a more positive 4-1-2-3 and 89:22 he's scored the goal of his career in a position he's completely unfamiliar with

The game is way too harsh on tactical mistakes, man. Because Torino's 4-1-2-3 exploited my 4-1-2-3, the game made him score a worldie. Regardless of his attributes. That's what frustrates me the most

All the real life examples posted, none are as technically difficult to score as my guy. To control a 50m pass like that stone dead?

[Jimmious7]

To be honest the player has above average technique and flair etc, so why shouldn't he be able to control the ball well? 

Sure he probably won't shoot as well most of the times but this time he did. Also not sure if this is really a "long shot" btw

[2calvin]

1 minute ago, Jimmious7 said:

To be honest the player has above average technique and flair etc, so why shouldn't he be able to control the ball well? 

8 first touch?????????

Here he is with his 5 crossing and 'weak' left foot. But oh well because Torino's tactic exploited mine lets disregard attributes

[Jimmious7]

Crossing and headers are a bit broken atm I would say. It's very rare to see a defender stopping them

1 minute ago, 2calvin said:

8 first touch?????????

 

Yeah well, as I said before, a low skill means lower chances to succeed in something but there are still chances. Plus morale etc play a huge role of course

[likesiamesefish]

4 hours ago, themadsheep2001 said:

This thread is a good example of the misconceptions of attributes in FM, even with clear really world examples

Ultimately you can't draw a definition from one example, no matter how annoyed the OP might be about conceding a goal. 

I agree. I hope the devs see this thread and realise that some people are just going to moan about it no matter what. A 'broken' game because of one goal out of thousands? Lolz

[Tetsuro P12]

54 minutes ago, sporadicsmiles said:

If you played Bonucci in an identical role to Messi in FM for a full season, Messi would play infinitely better.

There is no scripting to the match engine in the way you are implying here. Attributes matter, but they are not the only thing. Otherwise you could just assemble the best CA team in the world and not even bother to play matches as you know you will win every single game. This is decidedly not what happens in football.

If you think chance plays no role in football, you must live in a world of constant frustration. Chance is one of the most important parts of football.

I do not understand the entire concept of this thread. We see all the time players who we normally think of as being average putting in amazing displays, scoring amazing goals, dominating games when you normally would not expect them to. There are already plenty of examples of this on this thread. It is an obvious part of football, it is not something you can really question.

The underlying current here seems to be that players should never be able play well if their attributes are low. Never score. Never have a great day. Lose every tackle. Which is absolute nonsense. That is contrary to our every day experience of football. Hell, even I have had days where everything I do works perfectly and I just play well. I am sure I am not alone in that. I remember once scoring a 30 yard screamer into the top corner. Never done it before, probably never will again.

I think this is a fundamental misunderstanding of how the game actually works. Attributes determine how good a player is on average. So over the course of a season a player will play more or less to his attributes. You would expect a striker with 20 finishing to outscore a striker with 10 finishing, playing in the same system, over the course of a season. This does not work on the level of a single game, and definitely not on a single passage of play (from which the OP and others are extrapolating here). Here there is much more of a random element. Attributes are only a small part of what is going on in a single game. The way in which players interact with their team mates and the opposition players is vastly important. And add the fact that players can do things like this. They will just do it much rarer than a better player. There is no mystery here, and it is another example of abusing numbers and statistics that I see so often on these forums.

It is annoying to concede such goals, but they happen and it is entirely realistic.

 

Perhaps, I don't know... lately things feels so much randomic.

Chance isn't randomity. Chance is kicking that ball badly, or unability to reaching it, etc., there is a mistake made by the player involved; 'Concentration, Decision, etc.' all those beautiful words that sometimes don't reflect well in the ME.

I understand it well: 'a player does a thing that should be incapable of doing'. That's causing frustration to a person, and that person is definitely right. A man can't give birth to a child, it's unable to (until we will find a capable coder able to mix the data accordingly), so a mediocre defender should not be able to mimic Ryan Giggs (I'm old, I know).

This is a great day for a defender:

 

[themadsheep2001]

39 minutes ago, 2calvin said:

8 first touch?????????

Here he is with his 5 crossing and 'weak' left foot. But oh well because Torino's tactic exploited mine lets disregard attributes

This is not how the attributes, tactics or the match engine works. Your understanding here of the game is fundamentally flawed

[Halofon]

Back  to the OP:

I experienced this once. Losing 1:0 on half time, LW tired  and low rating, so I subbed him.

 

I found out later that accidentally I subbed him for my CB with high heading and aerial reach attribute.

Somehow he managed to make a run into the box and there he jumped higher than anybody... guess what? I won 2:1 on full time. Both goals scored by headers of my CB on left wing.

I did not try to do that again, but it is possible.

[enigmatic]

Here is John O Shea, accurately rated as a pretty plodding defender throughout his career, doing his best Cantona impressions

And here he is, having never played in goal in professional football before, doing a Manuer Neuer impression.

Top level professional footballers have a bit more ability to do unexpectedly skilful or smart stuff than your mate on a park field, even if they spend most of their career playing it simple.

Even your mate on a park field can control a crossfield ball and hit a shot into the top corner once in his life, and your mate on a park field doesn't have attributes equivalent to a star winger at semi-pro level....

 

 

[Tetsuro P12]

47 minutes ago, enigmatic said:

Here is John O Shea, accurately rated as a pretty plodding defender throughout his career, doing his best Cantona impressions

nd here he is, having never played in goal in professional football before, doing a Manuer Neuer impression.

Top level professional footballers have a bit more ability to do unexpectedly skilful or smart stuff than your mate on a park field, even if they spend most of their career playing it simple.

Even your mate on a park field can control a crossfield ball and hit a shot into the top corner once in his life, and your mate on a park field doesn't have attributes equivalent to a star winger at semi-pro level....

 

 

1st and 2nd: nothing technical, 3rd: I don't know what to watch. Anyone can pass the ball under the legs, what's the point?

Edited January 30, 2020 by Tetsuro P12

[enigmatic]

14 minutes ago, Tetsuro P12 said:

1st and 2nd: nothing technical, 3rd: I don't know what to watch. Anyone can pass the ball under the legs, what's the point?

The third one seems to have lost the link to the right part of the video but if you move it to the last minute, you'll see an outfield player whose relevant goalkeeping attributes can't have been much above 1 pulling off a fantastic one on one save IRL.  Which I'm sure you would be the first person to insist is completely impossible given his attributes.

Although maybe it's just the attacking player's finishing ability was below 11, which apparently means that scoring against you should be like a man giving birth to a child....

I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest that dribbling involves dribbling ability [think O'Shea's was about 5 and his Flair about 3] and lobbing the keeper takes a lot more technical ability and flair than controlling a crossfield pass and giving it a whack.

But just to be sure, you believe there's absolutely nothing unusual about a centre back appearing unmarked in the middle of the penalty area and executing a deft dink over a keeper into the corner, but also think that it is entirely impossible and unrealistic for a centre back at the same level to be able to control a crossfield pass?

[puffascruffowitz]

Philippe Mexes bicycle kick? Benjamin Pavard's WC belter? As many have said, these are professional players. If you put them on a pitch with a pub team they'd run rings around everyone and WOULD be doing insane stuff  regularly. An 8 first touch at professional level is for your average person more like 18-20 first touch. 

[roykela]

3 hours ago, Tetsuro P12 said:

1st and 2nd: nothing technical, 3rd: I don't know what to watch. Anyone can pass the ball under the legs, what's the point?

1st - Technical skill, composure , decision-making and a good touch.
2nd - Technical skill, composure, vision and decision-making.
3rd - Nothing special. He's behaving and acting as a defender, only with a mind-set tilted towards being GK.

Doing those things is one thing but doing it at that level is something completely different.
There is so much to take into consideration during any moment of a football match and to say that 1st and 2nd is nothing technical is misunderstanding/not understanding the complexity of what's happening.

A "rubbish" pro player can do stuff like that maybe once or a few times in his career. But he can still do it. A top one can do it more consistently.
That's the difference.

Translating it to my own experience in real life; you're basically saying that my friend, with no technical skills or football understanding shouldn't have scored that goal of the season he scored, had it been in FM.
Couldn't run. Couldn't kick a ball. Didn't know how to head the ball etc. You get the picture. Worst of the worst.
But he managed to smash in a 35-meter volley in the top far corner during a tournament. Perfect strike.
Worst player scored the best goal of the season.

Translating it back to FM and pro players. Should that not happen at all if it had been in FM?

 

[gxL2o62DcgGQ2RNW]

The way I understand FM’s attributes is as an ordinal ranking, higher is better but there is no indication of how much better. It is, and I believe the developers have said as much, meant to rank professional footballers against each other. You could trivially multiply each attribute by 10, and then 1 might be stumbling about or always loosing the ball when first touching it. But what is the point of doing that? A player always losing control of the ball on the first touch would certainly be gone from the professional pipeline before making it as far as age 15, which is the youngest age simulated in FM. Understandably the scale is normalized to the players included in the game.

Presumably, the underlying match engine is probabilistic and the effect of an attribute increase diminishing, that is the difference between 1 and 2 is greater than the difference between 19 and 20. 
Naturally, SI keeps the inner workings of the match engine to themselves, but I imagine a passing of 1 to be significantly above a 0% probability of getting the ball to its intended destination, and a 20 to be significantly below 100%, the latter closer to 100% than the former is to 0%. It is easy to see then that the anecdotal YouTube clip isn’t informative. Consider two coins being tossed, one is weighted always turning up heads, and the other is honest. Proponents of ‘attributes do not matter’ would have us believe that in the case of the honest coin turning up heads as well that something hinky is afoot. I imagine it’s the same people who after the 2016 US Presidential Election derided pollsters because everyone knows that an outcome with a 30% probability of occurring occurs 0% of the time.

[Tetsuro P12]

1 hour ago, roykela said:

1st - Technical skill, composure , decision-making and a good touch.
2nd - Technical skill, composure, vision and decision-making.
3rd - Nothing special. He's behaving and acting as a defender, only with a mind-set tilted towards being GK.

Doing those things is one thing but doing it at that level is something completely different.
There is so much to take into consideration during any moment of a football match and to say that 1st and 2nd is nothing technical is misunderstanding/not understanding the complexity of what's happening.

A "rubbish" pro player can do stuff like that maybe once or a few times in his career. But he can still do it. A top one can do it more consistently.
That's the difference.

Translating it to my own experience in real life; you're basically saying that my friend, with no technical skills or football understanding shouldn't have scored that goal of the season he scored, had it been in FM.
Couldn't run. Couldn't kick a ball. Didn't know how to head the ball etc. You get the picture. Worst of the worst.
But he managed to smash in a 35-meter volley in the top far corner during a tournament. Perfect strike.
Worst player scored the best goal of the season.

Translating it back to FM and pro players. Should that not happen at all if it had been in FM?

 

I don't see technical attirbutes in those two actions. This is technique (and a technical player), now let the defender do it in a match situation and you have a jolly (Roberto Carlos, then?):

I too have scored from long distance, if you have power in your legs you can do it... but give to it that spin to trick the keeper in the lower corner, that require technique.

Edited January 30, 2020 by Tetsuro P12

[roykela]

2 minutes ago, Tetsuro P12 said:

I don't see technical attirbutes in those two actions. This is technique (and a technical player):

I too have scored from long distance, if you have power in your legs you can do it... but give to it that spin to trick the keeper in the lower corner, that require technique.

That video is basic technique. I used quite a few of those with my team as a coach. Most of them were no footballers (no adults) but they could still do quite a few of those in the video there.

It does require technique but not so much with technique as with everything else.
Even i still do that semi-regularly during my Tuedsay sessions when i'm playing. And that's indoor with a felt ball. Skills aren't what they used to be at the age of 40 


Attributes do matter. But in isolation they don't really mean much.
If i can do it semi-regularly, you can do it then why couldn't a a CD do it....a professional one as well?

The attributes, let's say finishing for this argument, can be considered how likely the player is to finish the ball well on a consistent basis. 1 is the least likely and 20 is the most likely.
But they're not limited to never and always. And they can't be viewed in isolation. One has to take into consideration other attributes, the opposition, the mentality of the player(-s), the weather etc.
An attribute of 1 is not equal to useless. An attribute of 20 is not equal to best in the world.

You mentioned "anyone can pass ball under legs". You're right. Anyone CAN do it. But how often are they capable of doing it?! That's the essential part.
A world class CD might very well be better than an poor/average LW (thinking of the OP).

Sorry if it doesn't make too much sense. Sitting at work and am a bit distracted. Just had to get my thoughts on it down before they vanished.

[Novem9]

В 30.01.2020 в 02:28, 2calvin сказал:

t's their centre half.  (why they put the centre half at LW i don't know) WELL i thought i didnt. Until he scored this. So yeah, best inside forward in the game below guys.

Actually I dont see a problem. This player has technique 12 and his mental attributes not bad too. In fact he just used direct shot from boxarea line so its not an extra difficult shot. Even I scored the same goals sometimes but my longshots =1  

[RBKalle]

Isn't it great how one-off outlandish situations and scenarios in real life, so rare that indeed fans remember happening many years later, are "just another league game" in FM, year in year out, patch after patch?

It's the Long Shots debate all over again... Sure, Acerbi scored a screamer from his own living room, but that doesn't explain or excuse the fact in FMxx such statistical oddity is much more common.

Ditto for top-level strikers hitting the post instead of scoring on an open goal (after the GK had miskicked the ball while pulling off a Higuita outside the penalty area). Sure there are 10 clips of amateur strikers fluffing absolute sitters from 3 yards out, and there are iconic misses at top-level. But, again, they are so memorable fans remember them and if asked "open goal miss" it's always the same few incidents being brought up...

In FM20 you can't really keep track because they happen on a regular basis. And there's no tactical setup that can justify all the oddities and the absurdity taking place in this year's sorry excuse for a ME.

BTW, the OP may have been "unlucky" and Bonifazi may not ever score a goal like that in the OP's gameworld, or in any other gameworld. But I still find hard to accept that a barely average Serie A CB, deployed on the LW in a desperation move that makes no sense anyway (was he the lest horrible option Torino had?) can score a goal on par with this

 

Edited January 31, 2020 by RBKalle

[craiigman]

I mean any player can pull of world class trickz m8

 

To be honest I'm happy to see a defender ping a world class goal in every now and then. If it was 3 in a game or every week, then yeah raise an issue. 

[Freakiie]

6 hours ago, RBKalle said:

BTW, the OP may have been "unlucky" and Bonifazi may not ever score a goal like that in the OP's gameworld, or in any other gameworld. But I still find hard to accept that a barely average Serie A CB, deployed on the LW in a desperation move that makes no sense anyway (was he the lest horrible option Torino had?) can score a goal on par with this

 

Just curious, but why does it make no sense? I've seen the AI move a defender up front as a Wide Target Man a couple of times and if you're chasing the game going Route One I'd argue that's actually a quite sensible move and something you often see in real life as well where a tall defender is moved up front to be used as a Target Man when you pump the ball forward in a desperate bid to score a goal.

[Chardonnay]

Seems a mod have deleted my very reasonable question, so here goes again. 

 

According to Miles, mods and others a player with 2 crossing can hit wonderful crosses all game long because of "chance". So I wonder, can a 3 pace player run like Usain Bolt all game because of chance too? 

Edited January 31, 2020 by JordanMillward_1
Quit it with the passive aggressive tone

[FM1000]

17 minutes ago, Chardonnay said:

Seems a mod have deleted my very reasonable question, so here goes again. 

 

According to Miles, mods and the nodding heads gang a player with 2 crossing can hit wonderful crosses all game long because of "chance". So I wonder, can a 3 pace player run like Usain Bolt all game because of chance too? 

Look dude the only reasonable way to actually program the game is by using chance. No other way around. IRL i have scored a basket shooting with my eyes closed from half court. Can i do that ever again? Probably not. The problem in Football Manager is that the players with actually high attributes like Messi for exp keep on acting like idiots and making idiot decisions, or not playing to their strengths ( Messi or any other player keep running into opposition and loosing the ball which happens rarely IRL but its happening every game apparently in FM word) and high attributes seem like dont do that much except for physical attributes which you can see they make a difference.