Football Manager 2019 Official Feedback Thread

[themadsheep2001]

There's been some good constructive feedback here, please let's keep it that way. Neil has already asked that it's respectful and constructive (as it says at the top of the thread) so at this stage, and posts not falling under this are likely to be removed (some have been already).

[Novem9]

46 минут назад, Conor O'Hare сказал:

Why are more people not reporting issues in the bugs forum?

Unfortunatelly some issues was not fixed (I'm talking about general topics, not my), even no feedback sometimes or status no changed for 'under review' at least. This is confusing I guess

Just one fresh example from today - I tried to hire a coach Martin Stranzl, ex-player of Bundesliga clubs. He asking salary about 400k euro per year! 
Its funny because his experience just one year of coach in U19 team of BMG. I wrote about this issue in 2017 year, that ex-players in staff job asking big salary with no reason.

I tired of reporting new and old problems in real moment. Maybe some other users have a similar situation about reports

Edited March 4, 2019 by Novem9

[Conor O'Hare]

10 minutes ago, Novem9 said:

Unfortunatelly some issues was not fixed (I'm talking about general topics, not my), even no feedback sometimes or status no changed for 'under review' at least. This is confusing I guess

Just one fresh example from today - I tried to hire a coach Martin Stranzl, ex-player of Bundesliga clubs. He asking salary about 400k euro per year! 
Its funny because his experience just one year of coach in U19 team of BMG. I wrote about this issue in 2017 year, that ex-players in staff job asking big salary with no reason.

I tired of reporting new and old problems in real moment. Maybe some other users have a similar situation about reports

It's unfortunate your issues haven't been fixed, but I'm on about the people complaining about match engine issues.  There has only been 3 threads posted in the Match Engine bug forum.

I'm also not going to comment on the salary, 400k is about £7600 a week.  Considering the weekly salary of players, I don't know if paying close to 8k a week for an ex player with a high reputation is considered high.  I'm not saying it is right, but could be easily explained.

 

[Novem9]

4 минуты назад, Conor O'Hare сказал:

'm also not going to comment on the salary, 400k is about £7600 a week.  Considering the weekly salary of players, I don't know if paying close to 8k a week for an ex player with a high reputation is considered high.  I'm not saying it is right, but could be easily explained.

Well Robert Kovac has 500k per year like assistant in Bayern Munich and his background is Croatia NatTeam and Frankfurt. Another example is G. Zola from Chelsea - 869k per year and background of 10 years as manager.

 

8 минут назад, Conor O'Hare сказал:

but I'm on about the people complaining about match engine issues.  There has only been 3 threads posted in the Match Engine bug forum.

Well all issues were created, any issues were created even few times by different users
I guess there are nothing more to say + there are final big patch. Next update is FM20 as I understand

[CFuller]

11 hours ago, Bataglia said:

Where is mentoring for reserves and under 20s after the update?

I'd quite like to know what happened to this as well.

[DazRTaylor]

40 minutes ago, Neil Brock said:

Raise it ideally with a save game in the bugs forum and our QA team can investigate. As far as I'm aware it hasn't been made fixed. 

I have done.

[noikeee]

30 minutes ago, Conor O'Hare said:

It's unfortunate your issues haven't been fixed, but I'm on about the people complaining about match engine issues.  There has only been 3 threads posted in the Match Engine bug forum.

- Just because you're not seeing it in the ME forum doesn't mean it's not been reported.

- Reporting ME inbalances rather than clear obvious bugs (such as players scoring stupid owngoals etc) is very hard, because devs ask for examples and PKMs, but it's all a subjective "feel" experienced over a string of matches and seasons. For example, how can I justify that finishing accuracy from the spot kick isn't good enough compared to more angled shots? I'd need to run a statistical study with dozens of PKMs, I don't have the time for that.

[Per Annum]

13 hours ago, Per Annum said:

will real players in game grow in height if they are 16 at game start?

Can anyone confirm about real-preixisting teenagers?

How about for newgen teens?

[haffaz77]

goalkeeper ?  I kinda losing hope that u guys can ever fix gk ... stuff like this makes me rage quit the game even tho it was a goal FOR me...

[HUNT3R]

47 minutes ago, Per Annum said:

Can anyone confirm about real-preixisting teenagers?

How about for newgen teens?

As it relates to training/development and not giving feedback on the game, it's best to ask in the tactics and training forum.  

[HUNT3R]

4 minutes ago, haffaz77 said:

goalkeeper ?  I kinda losing hope that u guys can ever fix gk ... stuff like this makes me rage quit the game even tho it was a goal FOR me...

This is best reported in the bugs forum with a PKM.

[haffaz77]

vor 4 Minuten schrieb HUNT3R:

This is best reported in the bugs forum with a PKM.

yeah , done that now , thanks 

[Etebaer]

vor 2 Stunden schrieb haffaz77:

goalkeeper ?  I kinda losing hope that u guys can ever fix gk ... stuff like this makes me rage quit the game even tho it was a goal FOR me...

The Ball is wet and the GK get no handling on it i guess...if this is once or twice per Season it is reasonable...

[Per Annum]

2 hours ago, HUNT3R said:

As it relates to training/development and not giving feedback on the game, it's best to ask in the tactics and training forum.  

Would be worried if tactics or training could affect height. 

You told someone in May 2017 that players could grow, is this new gens or real too? It is something SI should be able to answer in seconds.

[HUNT3R]

21 minutes ago, Per Annum said:

Would be worried if tactics or training could affect height. 

You told someone in May 2017 that players could grow, is this new gens or real too? It is something SI should be able to answer in seconds.

It affects development, which is why I directed you there. It's certainly not feedback on the game.

[Etebaer]

vor 2 Stunden schrieb Per Annum:

Would be worried if tactics or training could affect height. 

You told someone in May 2017 that players could grow, is this new gens or real too? It is something SI should be able to answer in seconds.

In older FM i had newgens grow a bit - dont know if it will so in FM19 as i have no good newgens i want or can Keep at my club to watch them over the years.

[JEinchy]

I've logged a lot of hours into FM19 and think that it's not that far away from being a great game. At the same time, I've found FM19 to be dull. It's beatable, and even challenging in some parts, but playing through it has felt like a slog, especially when I've managed a top side - and this is coming from someone who isn't even that good at the game (I can put together a coherent tactic and win things, but I don't achieve the outstanding results that some can).

The ME issues are well documented, but they're worth repeating because it's such a vital part of the experience. There are three major issues that have already been posted in the bugs forum that, in combination with each other, make for a very repetitive playing experience:

1. The behaviour of players in the AML/AMR slots. Whether I use a winger or inside forward, anyone I select here plays the same way. The AML/AMR seem to be tethered to the opposition full backs, so if the opposition are using narrow full backs (which, if you play as a top side, they will in nearly every game) they follow them inside. My team ends up with three forwards standing in the penalty area, effectively taking themselves out of the game. This has significant knock-on effects for the behaviour of the other players. For instance, any midfielder in possession near the edge of the box will be unable to play the ball forward, and will therefore either play laterally to anyone in space (usually an advancing full back) or shoot because he has no options. This happens in real life and can be the result of my tactical set-up, but when it happens regardless of player role selection, it gets frustrating very quickly. This issue has put me off the AML/AMR positions. Instead, I now prefer the more customisable ML/MR positions because there's greater variation in how they behave. However, this leads to two more issues: 1) the overwhelming majority of wide players available in game cannot play ML/MR without retraining and 2) the overwhelming majority of AI managers play formations with an AML and AMR. The former isn't necessarily the biggest problem (it's inconvenient but the option is there) but the latter is, as I've seen high-quality wide players have little effect on the game world. I feel that if the movement of the AML/AMR is improved, it would allow for greater attacking variation.
2. It's not that AML/AMR are entirely useless, though. They're great for scoring at the back post. This tends to result from the extreme narrowness of the back four, even when using the Defend Wider TI. I see a lot of goals where a full back plays an deep cross to the back post to a wide player standing in acres of space, who can just put it in with ease. The full-backs don't seem to track the run or detach from the centre backs in an effort to get to the ball. Again, there are plenty of instances of this in real life, but in real life most defenders make the effort to try and defend the situation and if they can't, it's usually because they've been occupied by another attacker. In FM19, defenders seem determined to hold their positions even when there are obvious threats to mark. Variable defensive positioning, both good and bad, is what leads to greater goal variation but the fact that it's extremely difficult to draw a full back out of position to open up the space down the sides of the CBs contributes to the overall dullness of the ME.
3. Strikers aren't useless, either. My striker has 24 goals. He scores tap-ins, rebounds, headers from close range, pens, and the odd long-shot - all things that I certainly want him to do. However, he, and a lot of AI attackers, doesn't get many opportunities to score what I'd call routine goals - that is, goals from the centre of the penalty area after being on the end of a cross, cut-back or through ball. Players in wide positions never cut the ball back or play a low, driven cross. In my experience, they always seem to blast it to the back post, regardless of whatever instructions I give them to do otherwise. A lot of the time, the striker, who is waiting in space for a pass, is cut out entirely because the cross is almost always hit beyond him. In FM18, I had a lot fun and success with a 4141 that used two very pacey and technical wingers to drive crosses and cutbacks to a striker or late-arriving midfielder. The width of my attack stretched opposition defences and opened up the space between CB and FB for a through pass. This type of play no longer seems possible in FM19. The gaps don't appear in defence and attackers don't use the ball in a smart way.

I appreciate that it's a giant balancing act. I also think it's great the defending is stronger in this game. The ability to dictate my team's defensive style using the Out of Possession and In Transition parts of the tactics creator is very much welcome and a step in the right direction. At the same time, it feels like the attacking side of the game has lagged behind. I know from playing the public beta that SI are working hard at correcting the balance, which is why I said earlier that the game isn't far away from being great. 

Away from the ME, there are a few things that bother me and detract from the experience. 

1. Tactical briefings. Not a new feature, but one I've never found any use for and hence have never used. It might be realistic, but it's irritating to have to respond to a message about this before every game when I don't even use the feature. Simply making it a non-urgent message would go a long way to solving this issue. 
2. Similarly, being reminded several times that I need to register my squad for competitions is annoying. If I've registered all the players I want to before the transfer deadline and have made no further signings, I do not need to be reminded with an urgent message that the registration window is about to close right after the transfer deadline. Every season, I have to confirm my squad list on at least two separate occasions in the summer and then the winter. One should suffice.
3. Press conferences and tunnel interviews. Not their existence, nor the repetitive nature of the questions. No, it's the relevancy of some of the questions. I once had a reporter approach me in the tunnel asking my opinion about a manager for a team I wasn't playing putting a player on the transfer list. I'll be managing a top side and get asked about a mid-table team who is underachieving, or what I think about their manager being under pressure. It's really tedious. 
4. Assistant manager feedback. To be frank: it's rubbish. It wouldn't even be helpful for people new to the game. An opposition player could be a 6.3 rating, smash in a screamer, then be on a 8.0 rating and your assistant will be telling you that the player is "pulling the strings" or "really controlling things out there". No, he's not doing any of that; he was having a poor game and then scored a screamer. Yet if you follow his advice, you'd bend your tactic out of shape for every such occurrence. My assistant kept telling me that Joe Gomez was an "accomplished crosser of the ball" - Gomez has a crossing stat of 8. He's also completely wishy-washy about passing. We could be dominating the ball with mixed passing and he'd tell me we should play it shorter. We could be making chances with short passing and he'd tell me we should be more direct. While it's all ignorable, there's potential for this feature to point out things I have missed or should be aware of. As it is, it hasn't been at all useful since its introduction. 
5. Player interactions. I've banged this drum enough, but it's no less frustrating to not even be 10 games into the season and have players with the Rotation squad status complain about lack of playing time and then throw a tantrum when you tell them that the season is long and they'll get their chance eventually. 
6. Playing ratings. It's bizarre to me that you can play a great game without scoring and not get a single player above a 6.9, but if you fluke a game with three scrappy goals everyone will be 7.5+. Why does my midfielder who has created a bunch of chances that been missed not get a boost in rating? Why does an under performing player get a massive boost in his rating for scoring a screamer, free-kick or penalty? This doesn't feel as closely tied to the actions of the players as it should. It's too closely linked to major events. 

[goodmanp]

Love the update!!!! 

Update. I spoke to soon. I started a new save with team in German 3rd league, using 19.3. Started the season 5-1-1, and saw better movement. My striker had 4 gpals during that 7 game span. Then the wheels fell off. I went from 2nd place to 18th place. Lost or drew every game after that really nice start, and was sacked. The ME seemed to revert back to prior 19.3

Edited March 7, 2019 by goodmanp
Update

[Conor O'Hare]

I've just made my final post on the state of the FM19 ME from what I can see....I feel the data and evidence I've provided is well put across and I've performed multiple saves and multiples seasons over the last few days and the results tend to always be the same.  Football is a decisive issue and this game is also.  Some people will view the issues I've raised as a small drawback, but for me it kills the enjoyment.  

Frustrating as this is the only real complaint I can find in this years game.  Here's hoping 20 brings back the enjoyment for me. 

 

[Phil Dunphy]

The game is awesome since the update. Congrats and thank you SI. Love you guys. You have my money next year 

[mrjooleo]

This is still happening!! Its disrupt any tatic that you choose.. Look at that empty space!

 

This is my tactic..

[optimusprimal82]

3 hours ago, JEinchy said:

I've logged a lot of hours into FM19 and think that it's not that far away from being a great game. At the same time, I've found FM19 to be dull. It's beatable, and even challenging in some parts, but playing through it has felt like a slog,

>snip<

Was going to write "I felt like I was reading one of my own blurbs given the correlation between findings - great post!" but then realised I'd be inadvertently patting myself on the back at the same time which goes heavily against my "self-praise is no recommendation" mantra!  Instead I'll just add that I agree wholeheartedly & that if you have any examples, I've got a big, ridiculous long-winded post that talks specifically about the issue with AML/AMRs you're more than welcome to add to - just asked if it's still relevant in the beta forum or if I should get it moved/recreate - or if you have a new post/thread active, equally I'll happily throw any findings in there too.

Sadly at this stage in 19's life I doubt we'll see a massive improvement in the wingers as I imagine it's a colossal change; understandable but personally makes me sad as it's always been my favourite position (I have to play with wingers is my mantra!) - if they can't fix this year have asked if we can have a concession until 20 drops with perhaps the PIs removed from the AML/AMR's to see if we can at least try and circumvent the issues (the way they hug the FB's I doubt it but surely worth a try?) in the interim - guys have obviously been rushed off their feet so haven't heard back, but call me an idiot/optimist/optimusist, I'll sit here with my fingers still crossed until I hear none of it is possible!  

Edited March 5, 2019 by optimusprimal82

[Kawesa82]

Hey Neil, I was wondering if the 19.3.0 update is only for the full version and not the demo version?

[jujigatame]

18 hours ago, optimusprimal82 said:

Strangely that's the one part of your post I tend to see the complete inverse of - United/City/Liverpool tend to dispatch the mid-level teams 4/5 goals at a time, and games between them often descend into high goal shootouts, but against the teams at the bottom of the division (Southampton/Brighton/Huddersfield/Newcastle) and a few teams that seem to play very defensively (West Ham/Palace) they tend to scrape through 1/2-0 or end up with a score draw. The results change in the cups when said teams obviously realise that they won't get through with just a draw etc. Running a test right league right now and;

 

Obviously I can only speak to my own experience, but in the Europa League 5 clubs scored 20+ goals in the group stage (which should be a serious rarity) and it almost all came from big clubs demolishing clubs from poorer leagues.  I scored 11 goals in 2 matches against Luzern, Dortmund scored 11 in 2 matches against Sturm Graz, and so on.  There were 16 matches in the group stage where one team scored 5+ goals.

[optimusprimal82]

Quote

Obviously I can only speak to my own experience, but in the Europa League 5 clubs scored 20+ goals in the group stage (which should be a serious rarity) and it almost all came from big clubs demolishing clubs from poorer leagues.  I scored 11 goals in 2 matches against Luzern, Dortmund scored 11 in 2 matches against Sturm Graz, and so on.  There were 16 matches in the group stage where one team scored 5+ goals.

Ah, sorry you've hit on the one exception in my findings that I should have clarified; cup games - whether European/multi-nation or domestic - are/seem a completely different story; the opposition teams seem to approach them differently for whatever reason (maybe combination of world vs domestic reputation means they don't play as defensively? Also perennially defensive teams seem more inclined to attack in the cup games meaning teams score more goals). I was talking specifically about league fixtures...

Edited March 5, 2019 by optimusprimal82

[Weston]

4 hours ago, mrjooleo said:

This is still happening!! Its disrupt any tatic that you choose.. Look at that empty space!

 

This is my tactic..

I notice this happening to me as well. I play a 4-4-2 narrow diamond but instruct my team to play wide.

[99]

7 horas atrás, JEinchy disse:

I've logged a lot of hours into FM19 and think that it's not that far away from being a great game. At the same time, I've found FM19 to be dull. It's beatable, and even challenging in some parts, but playing through it has felt like a slog, especially when I've managed a top side - and this is coming from someone who isn't even that good at the game (I can put together a coherent tactic and win things, but I don't achieve the outstanding results that some can).

The ME issues are well documented, but they're worth repeating because it's such a vital part of the experience. There are three major issues that have already been posted in the bugs forum that, in combination with each other, make for a very repetitive playing experience:

1. The behaviour of players in the AML/AMR slots. Whether I use a winger or inside forward, anyone I select here plays the same way. The AML/AMR seem to be tethered to the opposition full backs, so if the opposition are using narrow full backs (which, if you play as a top side, they will in nearly every game) they follow them inside. My team ends up with three forwards standing in the penalty area, effectively taking themselves out of the game. This has significant knock-on effects for the behaviour of the other players. For instance, any midfielder in possession near the edge of the box will be unable to play the ball forward, and will therefore either play laterally to anyone in space (usually an advancing full back) or shoot because he has no options. This happens in real life and can be the result of my tactical set-up, but when it happens regardless of player role selection, it gets frustrating very quickly. This issue has put me off the AML/AMR positions. Instead, I now prefer the more customisable ML/MR positions because there's greater variation in how they behave. However, this leads to two more issues: 1) the overwhelming majority of wide players available in game cannot play ML/MR without retraining and 2) the overwhelming majority of AI managers play formations with an AML and AMR. The former isn't necessarily the biggest problem (it's inconvenient but the option is there) but the latter is, as I've seen high-quality wide players have little effect on the game world. I feel that if the movement of the AML/AMR is improved, it would allow for greater attacking variation.
2. It's not that AML/AMR are entirely useless, though. They're great for scoring at the back post. This tends to result from the extreme narrowness of the back four, even when using the Defend Wider TI. I see a lot of goals where a full back plays an deep cross to the back post to a wide player standing in acres of space, who can just put it in with ease. The full-backs don't seem to track the run or detach from the centre backs in an effort to get to the ball. Again, there are plenty of instances of this in real life, but in real life most defenders make the effort to try and defend the situation and if they can't, it's usually because they've been occupied by another attacker. In FM19, defenders seem determined to hold their positions even when there are obvious threats to mark. Variable defensive positioning, both good and bad, is what leads to greater goal variation but the fact that it's extremely difficult to draw a full back out of position to open up the space down the sides of the CBs contributes to the overall dullness of the ME.
3. Strikers aren't useless, either. My striker has 24 goals. He scores tap-ins, rebounds, headers from close range, pens, and the odd long-shot - all things that I certainly want him to do. However, he, and a lot of AI attackers, doesn't get many opportunities to score what I'd call routine goals - that is, goals from the centre of the penalty area after being on the end of a cross, cut-back or through ball. Players in wide positions never cut the ball back or play a low, driven cross. In my experience, they always seem to blast it to the back post, regardless of whatever instructions I give them to do otherwise. A lot of the time, the striker, who is waiting in space for a pass, is cut out entirely because the cross is almost always hit beyond him. In FM18, I had a lot fun and success with a 4141 that used two very pacey and technical wingers to drive crosses and cutbacks to a striker or late-arriving midfielder. The width of my attack stretched opposition defences and opened up the space between CB and FB for a through pass. This type of play no longer seems possible in FM19. The gaps don't appear in defence and attackers don't use the ball in a smart way.

I appreciate that it's a giant balancing act. I also think it's great the defending is stronger in this game. The ability to dictate my team's defensive style using the Out of Possession and In Transition parts of the tactics creator is very much welcome and a step in the right direction. At the same time, it feels like the attacking side of the game has lagged behind. I know from playing the public beta that SI are working hard at correcting the balance, which is why I said earlier that the game isn't far away from being great. 

Away from the ME, there are a few things that bother me and detract from the experience. 

1. Tactical briefings. Not a new feature, but one I've never found any use for and hence have never used. It might be realistic, but it's irritating to have to respond to a message about this before every game when I don't even use the feature. Simply making it a non-urgent message would go a long way to solving this issue. 
2. Similarly, being reminded several times that I need to register my squad for competitions is annoying. If I've registered all the players I want to before the transfer deadline and have made no further signings, I do not need to be reminded with an urgent message that the registration window is about to close right after the transfer deadline. Every season, I have to confirm my squad list on at least two separate occasions in the summer and then the winter. One should suffice.
3. Press conferences and tunnel interviews. Not their existence, nor the repetitive nature of the questions. No, it's the relevancy of some of the questions. I once had a reporter approach me in the tunnel asking my opinion about a manager for a team I wasn't playing putting a player on the transfer list. I'll be managing a top side and get asked about a mid-table team who is underachieving, or what I think about their manager being under pressure. It's really tedious. 
4. Assistant manager feedback. To be frank: it's rubbish. It wouldn't even be helpful for people new to the game. An opposition player could be a 6.3 rating, smash in a screamer, then be on a 8.0 rating and your assistant will be telling you that the player is "pulling the strings" or "really controlling things out there". No, he's not doing any of that; he was having a poor game and then scored a screamer. Yet if you follow his advice, you'd bend your tactic out of shape for every such occurrence. My assistant kept telling me that Joe Gomez was an "accomplished crosser of the ball" - Gomez has a crossing stat of 8. He's also completely wishy-washy about passing. We could be dominating the ball with mixed passing and he'd tell me we should play it shorter. We could be making chances with short passing and he'd tell me we should be more direct. While it's all ignorable, there's potential for this feature to point out things I have missed or should be aware of. As it is, it hasn't been at all useful since its introduction. 
5. Player interactions. I've banged this drum enough, but it's no less frustrating to not even be 10 games into the season and have players with the Rotation squad status complain about lack of playing time and then throw a tantrum when you tell them that the season is long and they'll get their chance eventually. 
6. Playing ratings. It's bizarre to me that you can play a great game without scoring and not get a single player above a 6.9, but if you fluke a game with three scrappy goals everyone will be 7.5+. Why does my midfielder who has created a bunch of chances that been missed not get a boost in rating? Why does an under performing player get a massive boost in his rating for scoring a screamer, free-kick or penalty? This doesn't feel as closely tied to the actions of the players as it should. It's too closely linked to major events. 

I never, never do the tactical briefings myself, and this is from someone who micromanages almost everything in-game (the responsabilities window has my name everywhere... except n the tactical briefings).

Good review of the game!

[SpS_Zen]

I have finished my first season with the new update (VNLN). Over 65 goals conceded, 25 came from free-kicks and 20 from outside the box. Those numbers feel high, i will keep in eye on it during the next seasons.

@JEinchy 1-3 let the staff handle it, 4  you can disable it. Agree with 5. 2-6 are whatever.

Edited March 5, 2019 by SpS_Zen

[Weston]

14 minutes ago, SpS_Zen said:

I have finished my first season with the new update (VNLN). Over 65 goals conceded, 25 came from free-kicks and 20 from outside the box. Those numbers feel high, i will keep in eye on it during the next seasons.

@JEinchy 1-3 let the staff handle it, 4  you can disable it. Agree with 5. 2-6 are whatever.

In past additions it was impossible to score free kicks - I would see 1-2 over years. Now, after many of us raised that issue, it does seem like they may have overcorrected a bit, but I've not even bothered mentioning it as I figure it's a work in progress as they continue to tweak things to get the balance right.

[thisana]

When will the Demo be updated to 19.3?

[Mons]

5 hours ago, Weston said:

I notice this happening to me as well. I play a 4-4-2 narrow diamond but instruct my team to play wide.

From my rudimentary tactical knowledge, I would consider this counter-logical. Either you are telling your central midfielders to play narrow, or you are asking them to play wide. In a 4-4-2 narrow diamond, I would expect the DM, 2 MCs and AM to be bunched pretty close together, especially after the negative transition.

That said, mrjoleeo's example seems to be a bit too extreme, but it's posted without context. What had happened immediately prior to the screenshot? Maybe the opposition keeper launched a goal kick which the team in red was favourite for and by the time he headed it to the player in possession, the opposition MCs retreated due to the AI manager's tactical instructions. Context is important, and it can't really be gauged with a screenshot. What are the 3 midfielders' roles and duties? What is the overall tactical framework? I don't speak Portuguese so I can't check these based on the screenshot. That's why providing a PKM is so important as it'll provide SI with the means to assess whether this apparent failing is due to a poor tactical setup or due to a limitation in the match engine, or even whether it's a failing at all.

I'm not saying there isn't an issue, but that the screenshot doesn't give enough information for us to decide whether it is an issue or not.

[Able.Ryder]

13 hours ago, JEinchy said:

1. Assistant manager feedback. To be frank: it's rubbish. It wouldn't even be helpful for people new to the game. An opposition player could be a 6.3 rating, smash in a screamer, then be on a 8.0 rating and your assistant will be telling you that the player is "pulling the strings" or "really controlling things out there". No, he's not doing any of that; he was having a poor game and then scored a screamer. Yet if you follow his advice, you'd bend your tactic out of shape for every such occurrence. My assistant kept telling me that Joe Gomez was an "accomplished crosser of the ball" - Gomez has a crossing stat of 8. He's also completely wishy-washy about passing. We could be dominating the ball with mixed passing and he'd tell me we should play it shorter. We could be making chances with short passing and he'd tell me we should be more direct. While it's all ignorable, there's potential for this feature to point out things I have missed or should be aware of. As it is, it hasn't been at all useful since its introduction. 

I've recently had a match where the assistant said the opposition central defender is pulling the strings and needs to be closed down; that was, of course, after he scored from a corner.

I find it rather funny (mostly because I always ignore the feedback, I prefer to watch the game myself) but I totally understand that his feedback should be one of the most important features of the game, especially for new players.

And great post, btw.

[Boss]

14 hours ago, JEinchy said:

I've logged a lot of hours into FM19 and think that it's not that far away from being a great game. At the same time, I've found FM19 to be dull. It's beatable, and even challenging in some parts, but playing through it has felt like a slog, especially when I've managed a top side - and this is coming from someone who isn't even that good at the game (I can put together a coherent tactic and win things, but I don't achieve the outstanding results that some can).

The ME issues are well documented, but they're worth repeating because it's such a vital part of the experience. There are three major issues that have already been posted in the bugs forum that, in combination with each other, make for a very repetitive playing experience:

1. The behaviour of players in the AML/AMR slots. Whether I use a winger or inside forward, anyone I select here plays the same way. The AML/AMR seem to be tethered to the opposition full backs, so if the opposition are using narrow full backs (which, if you play as a top side, they will in nearly every game) they follow them inside. My team ends up with three forwards standing in the penalty area, effectively taking themselves out of the game. This has significant knock-on effects for the behaviour of the other players. For instance, any midfielder in possession near the edge of the box will be unable to play the ball forward, and will therefore either play laterally to anyone in space (usually an advancing full back) or shoot because he has no options. This happens in real life and can be the result of my tactical set-up, but when it happens regardless of player role selection, it gets frustrating very quickly. This issue has put me off the AML/AMR positions. Instead, I now prefer the more customisable ML/MR positions because there's greater variation in how they behave. However, this leads to two more issues: 1) the overwhelming majority of wide players available in game cannot play ML/MR without retraining and 2) the overwhelming majority of AI managers play formations with an AML and AMR. The former isn't necessarily the biggest problem (it's inconvenient but the option is there) but the latter is, as I've seen high-quality wide players have little effect on the game world. I feel that if the movement of the AML/AMR is improved, it would allow for greater attacking variation.
2. It's not that AML/AMR are entirely useless, though. They're great for scoring at the back post. This tends to result from the extreme narrowness of the back four, even when using the Defend Wider TI. I see a lot of goals where a full back plays an deep cross to the back post to a wide player standing in acres of space, who can just put it in with ease. The full-backs don't seem to track the run or detach from the centre backs in an effort to get to the ball. Again, there are plenty of instances of this in real life, but in real life most defenders make the effort to try and defend the situation and if they can't, it's usually because they've been occupied by another attacker. In FM19, defenders seem determined to hold their positions even when there are obvious threats to mark. Variable defensive positioning, both good and bad, is what leads to greater goal variation but the fact that it's extremely difficult to draw a full back out of position to open up the space down the sides of the CBs contributes to the overall dullness of the ME.
3. Strikers aren't useless, either. My striker has 24 goals. He scores tap-ins, rebounds, headers from close range, pens, and the odd long-shot - all things that I certainly want him to do. However, he, and a lot of AI attackers, doesn't get many opportunities to score what I'd call routine goals - that is, goals from the centre of the penalty area after being on the end of a cross, cut-back or through ball. Players in wide positions never cut the ball back or play a low, driven cross. In my experience, they always seem to blast it to the back post, regardless of whatever instructions I give them to do otherwise. A lot of the time, the striker, who is waiting in space for a pass, is cut out entirely because the cross is almost always hit beyond him. In FM18, I had a lot fun and success with a 4141 that used two very pacey and technical wingers to drive crosses and cutbacks to a striker or late-arriving midfielder. The width of my attack stretched opposition defences and opened up the space between CB and FB for a through pass. This type of play no longer seems possible in FM19. The gaps don't appear in defence and attackers don't use the ball in a smart way.

I appreciate that it's a giant balancing act. I also think it's great the defending is stronger in this game. The ability to dictate my team's defensive style using the Out of Possession and In Transition parts of the tactics creator is very much welcome and a step in the right direction. At the same time, it feels like the attacking side of the game has lagged behind. I know from playing the public beta that SI are working hard at correcting the balance, which is why I said earlier that the game isn't far away from being great. 

Away from the ME, there are a few things that bother me and detract from the experience. 

1. Tactical briefings. Not a new feature, but one I've never found any use for and hence have never used. It might be realistic, but it's irritating to have to respond to a message about this before every game when I don't even use the feature. Simply making it a non-urgent message would go a long way to solving this issue. 
2. Similarly, being reminded several times that I need to register my squad for competitions is annoying. If I've registered all the players I want to before the transfer deadline and have made no further signings, I do not need to be reminded with an urgent message that the registration window is about to close right after the transfer deadline. Every season, I have to confirm my squad list on at least two separate occasions in the summer and then the winter. One should suffice.
3. Press conferences and tunnel interviews. Not their existence, nor the repetitive nature of the questions. No, it's the relevancy of some of the questions. I once had a reporter approach me in the tunnel asking my opinion about a manager for a team I wasn't playing putting a player on the transfer list. I'll be managing a top side and get asked about a mid-table team who is underachieving, or what I think about their manager being under pressure. It's really tedious. 
4. Assistant manager feedback. To be frank: it's rubbish. It wouldn't even be helpful for people new to the game. An opposition player could be a 6.3 rating, smash in a screamer, then be on a 8.0 rating and your assistant will be telling you that the player is "pulling the strings" or "really controlling things out there". No, he's not doing any of that; he was having a poor game and then scored a screamer. Yet if you follow his advice, you'd bend your tactic out of shape for every such occurrence. My assistant kept telling me that Joe Gomez was an "accomplished crosser of the ball" - Gomez has a crossing stat of 8. He's also completely wishy-washy about passing. We could be dominating the ball with mixed passing and he'd tell me we should play it shorter. We could be making chances with short passing and he'd tell me we should be more direct. While it's all ignorable, there's potential for this feature to point out things I have missed or should be aware of. As it is, it hasn't been at all useful since its introduction. 
5. Player interactions. I've banged this drum enough, but it's no less frustrating to not even be 10 games into the season and have players with the Rotation squad status complain about lack of playing time and then throw a tantrum when you tell them that the season is long and they'll get their chance eventually. 
6. Playing ratings. It's bizarre to me that you can play a great game without scoring and not get a single player above a 6.9, but if you fluke a game with three scrappy goals everyone will be 7.5+. Why does my midfielder who has created a bunch of chances that been missed not get a boost in rating? Why does an under performing player get a massive boost in his rating for scoring a screamer, free-kick or penalty? This doesn't feel as closely tied to the actions of the players as it should. It's too closely linked to major events. 

This is a fantastic review and the guys at SI should be so thankful that they get this sort of feedback from customers/fans of the game.

I think you summed up my views on FM19 in one word there and that is "dull". Outside of the ME I find the game great (albeit there are still the same DB errors that we take the time to log and yet never get fixed). I'm not one of these to moan about things like interviews, pre match tactical briefings etc as these are mostly cosmetic for me - the main crux of the game is the ME and realism for me and sadly FM19 is seriously lacking on this front.

I don't consider myself to be some sort of tactical genius or anything like that; I have been playing the game since CM01/02 and have always just built my tactics on common sense and have had decent success by doing so. However with FM19 that just doesn't seem to work. I play as Ajax and currently have a record of 34 games played, 28 wins, 4 draws, 2 losses (as you might expect with a team like Ajax), however I just find the game laborious and boring. I think it's pretty clear from all the analysis since 19.3 that there are issues with the amount of goals being scored (as proven by AI vs AI games and seasonal analysis).

So for me unfortunately, I won't be playing this game from the latest patch onwards for the first time in 18 years or so and that is a real shame, but this is supposed to be fun and enjoyable and right now FM just feels like a chore. I've gone back to FM15 for now, and first game in I lose 3-2 but it's actually a relief to see some exciting football with players following instructions.

[jc1]

Still seeing far to many balls being kicked against defenders legs and not enough players actually with game intelligence making space to get the ball into the box without needlessly kicking it against opposition legs. Also too much ping pong ball happening, shot comes in and then it bounces around the box like a ping pong macjine, just too unrealistic. Strikers kicking the ball against the keeper for it to rebound of him and still be able to put the ball into the net, again this is happening too much.

 

Better striker movement and through balls but we still have AI teams putting everyone behind the ball making space in the box limited.

 

Early days with the new patch but still feels like the original Beta was the best so far and whatever little tweaks that have been done has mucked it up.

[JEinchy]

11 hours ago, optimusprimal82 said:

Was going to write "I felt like I was reading one of my own blurbs given the correlation between findings - great post!" but then realised I'd be inadvertently patting myself on the back at the same time which goes heavily against my "self-praise is no recommendation" mantra!  Instead I'll just add that I agree wholeheartedly & that if you have any examples, I've got a big, ridiculous long-winded post that talks specifically about the issue with AML/AMRs you're more than welcome to add to - just asked if it's still relevant in the beta forum or if I should get it moved/recreate - or if you have a new post/thread active, equally I'll happily throw any findings in there too.

Sadly at this stage in 19's life I doubt we'll see a massive improvement in the wingers as I imagine it's a colossal change; understandable but personally makes me sad as it's always been my favourite position (I have to play with wingers is my mantra!) - if they can't fix this year have asked if we can have a concession until 20 drops with perhaps the PIs removed from the AML/AMR's to see if we can at least try and circumvent the issues (the way they hug the FB's I doubt it but surely worth a try?) in the interim - guys have obviously been rushed off their feet so haven't heard back, but call me an idiot/optimist/optimusist, I'll sit here with my fingers still crossed until I hear none of it is possible!  

If they want more examples, I'll be happy to add some.

For the sake of balance, I'll post something good from the ME:

It's from a throw-in, but West Ham's midfield is bunched together on one side. My three midfielders (Torreira, Guendouzi and Ozil) work the ball between themselves, until Ozil (playing in central midfield as an AP(s)) moves into the yawning space in front of West Ham's backline. Balbuena, West Ham's left sided CB, moves out to close him down. When he does, Aubameyang, who I have playing as an AML inside forward (A), moves into the space (you can see him walk across the line before making the run). Then Ozil, with his 19 passing, 19 vision and tries killer balls often PPI plays the perfect pass and we score. 

I love this goal because there's a logic to everything. West Ham are tilted because of the set-piece situation. Ozil finds the space because he's a highly intelligent player. Balbuena steps out his defensive line because there's no midfield in front of him, so he has to. Aubameyang finds the space because he has great off the ball movement. 

Unfortunately, this is the only goal of this type that I've seen all season long. Instead, a lot my chances tend to come from moves like this one:

This isn't a bad move at all. The AMR (Inside Forward (S)) offers himself as a passing option, as I want him to. The right back (Full Back (S)) makes a great run that goes unnoticed, and his movement throughout is good. Ozil plays a superb pass to find him, he plays a good cross and the header from Aubameyang is just wide. 

However, pay attention to the movement of my striker (DLF(S)) and my left sided attacker (Winger (A)) throughout the move. Neither make any effort to detach themselves from their marker. The striker doesn't show for the ball or make any move down the sides of the CBs. The winger doesn't behave like a winger would. I would expect him to be closer to the left side of the penalty box, either dragging the right back with him, or finding space because the right back doesn't go with him. Instead, he seems to move with the right back, as if he's marking him instead of the other way around. 

If you pause the move at 33 seconds, you can see where the big problem is. Ozil here can open his body out and move into the space to his left. Then, one of the two forwards on that side can move into the big space, while the other moves into the vacated space. It would have been a very basic move for top players to make, but neither forward moves. The striker moves into an offside position while the winger doesn't move. I could be wrong, but because the movement isn't there, Ozil has no choice but to play the ball to the right back instead. After all, the right back is the only one actually moving into space. 

Here, the roles of two of my forwards aren't behaving as I'd expect them to. They're behaving in a very similar way, despite having very different roles on the pitch.

The conflicting behaviour is interesting. In the first example, the forwards make good runs when the space opens up in front of them. In the second example, the space isn't available in front of them, but they ignore the space behind them. This goes hand in hand with the very forward thinking nature of attacking play in FM. Something like a forward taking one or two steps backwards or sideways to open up space - the type of movement that is very important for unlocking deep defences in reality - seems quite rare. 

Edited March 5, 2019 by JEinchy

[optimusprimal82]

Pretty much sums up my experience; I do think the forwards movement is slightly better in 19.3 than the respective beta, but both then and now (and I know i've laboured this point to death elsewhere) it often feels like the strikers/wingers are doing the marking as opposed to the other way around - the way the attackers follow the defence when they suddenly go super narrow is a large (at least imo) contributor to a lot of the issues, especially as they do little to move again once there (I go into more detail on exactly this behaviour here for those who don't know what I'm waffling about). The often stubborn refusal to pass backwards/keep the ball when space is at a premium can also be confusing - mentioned before that at times I feel like my players are under the illusion that there's a shot clock like there is in basketball.

The first goal also illustrates to me why so many goals come from set pieces overall; it's hard to pull the super defensive teams out of shape during open play as they set their defensive line so rigidly narrow. You can do it, but it can be haphazard at best against the most defensive sides; with the set pieces the opposition defend them more like you would expect (exploits notwithstanding) which means they track runners, players move and holes/spaces open for people like Ozil etc to thread balls through.

Edited March 5, 2019 by optimusprimal82

[Sasha-1992]

 After update I have a small problem with player searching. When I change player filter and start search  complete list loading few seconds(5-6) and game litle bit freezes. Before update it was only one second and players list completely ready. How solve this problem ?

[noikeee]

39 minutes ago, optimusprimal82 said:

Pretty much sums up my experience; I do think the forwards movement is slightly better in 19.3 than the respective beta, but both then and now (and I know i've laboured this point to death elsewhere) it often feels like the strikers/wingers are doing the marking as opposed to the other way around - the way the attackers follow the defence when they suddenly go super narrow is a large (at least imo) contributor to a lot of the issues, especially as they do little to move again once there (I go into more detail on exactly this behaviour here for those who don't know what I'm waffling about). The often stubborn refusal to pass backwards/keep the ball when space is at a premium can also be confusing - mentioned before that at times I feel like my players are under the illusion that there's a shot clock like there is in basketball.

The first goal also illustrates to me why so many goals come from set pieces overall; it's hard to pull the super defensive teams out of shape during open play as they set their defensive line so rigidly narrow. You can do it, but it can be haphazard at best against the most defensive sides; with the set pieces the opposition defend them more like you would expect (exploits notwithstanding) which means they track runners, players move and holes/spaces open for people like Ozil etc to thread balls through.

Exactly, great post that describes exactly what's going on, I agree with everything.

[Mawka]

I'm having so much fun with latest patch, usually i tend to play with other people's tactics but on this new patch  i've decided to try my own tactic and built one from scratch, now i don't feel the need of throw in exploits nor corner to win a match and my lone striker is scoring more goals than ever. The only issue i've found (sometimes), on kick off when my team starts the game my player first touch on the ball is to pass it to nowhere or to the side line giving the ball to the opposite side. Thanks for this update SI.

[Weston]

5 hours ago, Mons said:

From my rudimentary tactical knowledge, I would consider this counter-logical. Either you are telling your central midfielders to play narrow, or you are asking them to play wide. In a 4-4-2 narrow diamond, I would expect the DM, 2 MCs and AM to be bunched pretty close together, especially after the negative transition.

This was my initial thought a few years ago also. I have a narrow formation, so I would tell my players to play through the middle. But you don't need to do that - in theory they're already in the middle so they will already be playing there. I was told this on these forums, that it may seem counterintuitive, but if all your players are bunched up in the middle of the pitch due to their positioning, it's actually good to tell them to play wide, so they spread out a little in that middle third and fill some of the wider space vacated by not having a dedicated winger. This also helps close down opposition crosses as you don't have a winger marking their fullback or whatever, you want to allow your CMs to come wide defensively otherwise they're just sitting in the middle uselessly as you're hit on the wings. And as it turns out, if you play a narrow formation AND instruct your players to play narrow you end up just all sat on top of each other operating within a very small, tight space, and it's very easy to be shut out completely as they pack a narrow defense behind you while you pass back and forth to yourself at the top of the box. Not very efficient.

[optimusprimal82]

Fired up 17 again this evening to dabble with (& for a lark) whilst I'm testing some tactics guff with 19; immediate impressions are that it feels dated (somehow?) & really, really difficult to go back to having played 19 for so long but nevertheless I persevered. Firing up an old Man Utd save (I'd started but never got very far with), I bashed into a few quick games trying to make sense of the bizarre asymmetrical tactic set I'd got installed. After winning a few I decided to fast forward to such a time that a defensive underdog rolled into town to see how I could best thwart them almost in a direct comparison to some of the 'bus-sy' issues people are facing in the current release.

I'll start by quickly saying that the match experience and general feel of the match engine does - to me at least - feel better/smoother in 19, but what is immediately noticeable in 17 is the overall movement of players & way in which that impacts on the opposition; in some ways it's less realistic and wing play does still seem to be plagued by some of the issues I've noted/written about in 19, but what is tremendously refreshing is being able to instruct my little guys and watch them pull the unfortunate opposition all over the place & it's an amazing antidote to 19's embracing of (at times) 'anti-football'.

I know 17's ME has it's flaws too (believe it's 17 that playing without strikers causes it a huge headache?), but whilst it ultimately may be too easy once you get to grips with it, it just feels fun and refreshing in a way that - despite having a great time (and i've put hours and hours into it) with it - 19 can't.

Very quick (and now I look at it, confusing) example - I spent a very quick 5 minutes setting up a 4231 in order to test the AMR/AML's, obviously United are a decent side and I've obviously been shopping (& can predict the future in one case) as Henrichs/Fred & a few others are here to help the cause. I set the AMR/AML up as wingers and changed the DL/DR to IWB's during the first half to come and support in the middle and more importantly prove as a useful distraction;

Swansea were our victims opponents, and they rolled up rocking this little number (nightmares time if it were 19!);

This is how we lined up (useful for visualising in a minute);

This little passage below shows how we were frequently able to pull their irritatingly manned backline all over the shop;Naturally as Swansea are defending for their lives & we're at home, we're playing pretty attacking. Fred is on defensive duties in CM alongside Pogba who (is the wrong way around in the formation but was switched) is given license to maraud wherever the heck he wants to. After receiving possession inside Swanseas half, Fred drives forward and gives the ball to Zlatan who - after briefly holding the ball whilst waiting for support, plays it back to a still quite advanced Fred. As soon as Fred receives the ball, Ceballos (AMC) drops deeper, bringing with him the RB signalling the two wingers and - more importantly - Pogba, come to life and they start to move forward into the vacated space;

 

Presumably confused by the quick movement and with an RB well out of position the opposition DM's are interesting here because they don't track the AMC and are actually caught a little in no-mans land; Fred is playing the ball to Ceballos which could be considered risky given he is effectively within kicking distance of 3 players, but he also has the two IWB's in support. It also means that if he does take a more ambitious ball on & gets the next pass right - and Pogba/Rashford over on the left have a lot of space - he could take the 3 of the opposition players out of the next phase completely;

 

No surprise given his stats, role and PI's that Ceballos take the pass on, stupidly shut the game down before taking the next screenshot, but he pings an amazing ball into Rashfords path who runs into the box but is forced slightly wide by the hastily covering DC. Sadly this Marcus is till a few years behind the boy wonder we see today and he pulls the ball back behind Zlatan (but at least it was on the floor as instructed) and the move breaks down (with Fred almost getting to it). Luckily the half-clearance comes straight to my lurking IWB's and off we go again!

I know some people will criticise this (for example the RB tracking the AMC all that way) for not exactly being realistic (although some of the defending seen in recent years in the PL, maybe it is!), but what is it we all want exactly? Are we playing the game for a truly realistic experience - warts and all - or are we playing it for entertainment and fun? Football is an incredible thing, but it can also be tremendously boring - not every game can be a 4-3 thriller and let's not forget that my own United team bored me to tears earlier in the season (watching them felt like I was going to work)! No doubt we all really want the 'football boot wearing unicorn' of a sweet spot that combines the best of both worlds, but that's another mission impossibility when just gazing across at the small sample of reactions here to 19, even I contradict myself every 10 minutes by bashing the ME despite loving the rest of the game to pieces and racking up my highest FM hours count for quite a while! My take on it is that 19 is unquestionably a better game & it may well be the more realistic ME, but it's 17's representation of the beautiful game that I get more enjoyment out of right now which puts me in a heck of a quandary... 

Edited March 5, 2019 by optimusprimal82

[mrjooleo]

5 horas atrás, Mons disse:

From my rudimentary tactical knowledge, I would consider this counter-logical. Either you are telling your central midfielders to play narrow, or you are asking them to play wide. In a 4-4-2 narrow diamond, I would expect the DM, 2 MCs and AM to be bunched pretty close together, especially after the negative transition.

That said, mrjoleeo's example seems to be a bit too extreme, but it's posted without context. What had happened immediately prior to the screenshot? Maybe the opposition keeper launched a goal kick which the team in red was favourite for and by the time he headed it to the player in possession, the opposition MCs retreated due to the AI manager's tactical instructions. Context is important, and it can't really be gauged with a screenshot. What are the 3 midfielders' roles and duties? What is the overall tactical framework? I don't speak Portuguese so I can't check these based on the screenshot. That's why providing a PKM is so important as it'll provide SI with the means to assess whether this apparent failing is due to a poor tactical setup or due to a limitation in the match engine, or even whether it's a failing at all.

I'm not saying there isn't an issue, but that the screenshot doesn't give enough information for us to decide whether it is an issue or not.

My defense and atacking width was set to normal... and this happening in attacking phase... my goalkeeper give the ball to my full back and run it ball and made a long passe to oposite side because for some reason my midfiled did that..  I have a small theory.. that when you have counter attack in your transition phase this basically tells players to move ball quicly to attack.. but for that to work the midfiled should move accordingly.

[Mitja]

41 minutes ago, optimusprimal82 said:

it may well be the more realistic ME, but it's 17's representation of the beautiful game that I get more enjoyment out of right now which puts me in a heck of a quandary...

How it is more realistic if teams like Barca or City end seasons with 50 scored goals? Players like Messi or Aguero having trouble to hit double digit number of goals? Burnleys outpassing Cities? I don't get it, what's so realistic about fm19?

Edited March 5, 2019 by Mitja

[Arnoldzhu]

22 minutes ago, Mitja said:

How it is more realistic if teams like Barca or City end seasons with 50 scored goals? Players like Messi or Aguero having trouble to hit double digit number of goals? Burnleys outpassing Cities? I don't get it, what's so realistic about fm19?

yeah, don't see any skills or flairs in the attacking players. lacking in astonishing dribbles or unexpected smart passes together with clever small-range teamwork of movements, everything's just so dumb. wingers or attacking midfielders don't even try to beat the defenders and really "attack the box", only cross the ball to kick the ball against the legs or body of the opponent. no passing or ball controlling or dribbling within the box.

Edited March 5, 2019 by Arnoldzhu

[enigmatic]

1 hour ago, optimusprimal82 said:

Fired up 17 again this evening to dabble with (& for a lark) whilst I'm testing some tactics guff with 19; immediate impressions are that it feels dated (somehow?) & really, really difficult to go back to having played 19 for so long but nevertheless I persevered. Firing up an old Man Utd save (I'd started but never got very far with), I bashed into a few quick games trying to make sense of the bizarre asymmetrical tactic set I'd got installed. After winning a few I decided to fast forward to such a time that a defensive underdog rolled into town to see how I could best thwart them almost in a direct comparison to some of the 'bus-sy' issues people are facing in the current release.

I'll start by quickly saying that the match experience and general feel of the match engine does - to me at least - feel better/smoother in 19, but what is immediately noticeable in 17 is the overall movement of players & way in which that impacts on the opposition; in some ways it's less realistic and wing play does still seem to be plagued by some of the issues I've noted/written about in 19, but what is tremendously refreshing is being able to instruct my little guys and watch them pull the unfortunate opposition all over the place & it's an amazing antidote to 19's embracing of (at times) 'anti-football'.

I know 17's ME has it's flaws too (believe it's 17 that playing without strikers causes it a huge headache?), but whilst it ultimately may be too easy once you get to grips with it, it just feels fun and refreshing in a way that - despite having a great time (and i've put hours and hours into it) with it - 19 can't.

Very quick (and now I look at it, confusing) example - I spent a very quick 5 minutes setting up a 4231 in order to test the AMR/AML's, obviously United are a decent side and I've obviously been shopping (& can predict the future in one case) as Henrichs/Fred & a few others are here to help the cause. I set the AMR/AML up as wingers and changed the DL/DR to IWB's during the first half to come and support in the middle and more importantly prove as a useful distraction;

Swansea were our victims opponents, and they rolled up rocking this little number (nightmares time if it were 19!);

This is how we lined up (useful for visualising in a minute);

This little passage below shows how we were frequently able to pull their irritatingly manned backline all over the shop;Naturally as Swansea are defending for their lives & we're at home, we're playing pretty attacking. Fred is on defensive duties in CM alongside Pogba who (is the wrong way around in the formation but was switched) is given license to maraud wherever the heck he wants to. After receiving possession inside Swanseas half, Fred drives forward and gives the ball to Zlatan who - after briefly holding the ball whilst waiting for support, plays it back to a still quite advanced Fred. As soon as Fred receives the ball, Ceballos (AMC) drops deeper, bringing with him the RB signalling the two wingers and - more importantly - Pogba, come to life and they start to move forward into the vacated space;

 

Presumably confused by the quick movement and with an RB well out of position the opposition DM's are interesting here because they don't track the AMC and are actually caught a little in no-mans land; Fred is playing the ball to Ceballos which could be considered risky given he is effectively within kicking distance of 3 players, but he also has the two IWB's in support. It also means that if he does take a more ambitious ball on & gets the next pass right - and Pogba/Rashford over on the left have a lot of space - he could take the 3 of the opposition players out of the next phase completely;

 

No surprise given his stats, role and PI's that Ceballos take the pass on, stupidly shut the game down before taking the next screenshot, but he pings an amazing ball into Rashfords path who runs into the box but is forced slightly wide by the hastily covering DC. Sadly this Marcus is till a few years behind the boy wonder we see today and he pulls the ball back behind Zlatan (but at least it was on the floor as instructed) and the move breaks down (with Fred almost getting to it). Luckily the half-clearance comes straight to my lurking IWB's and off we go again!

I know some people will criticise this (for example the RB tracking the AMC all that way) for not exactly being realistic (although some of the defending seen in recent years in the PL, maybe it is!), but what is it we all want exactly? Are we playing the game for a truly realistic experience - warts and all - or are we playing it for entertainment and fun? Football is an incredible thing, but it can also be tremendously boring - not every game can be a 4-3 thriller and let's not forget that my own United team bored me to tears earlier in the season (watching them felt like I was going to work)! No doubt we all really want the 'football boot wearing unicorn' of a sweet spot that combines the best of both worlds, but that's another mission impossibility when just gazing across at the small sample of reactions here to 19, even I contradict myself every 10 minutes by bashing the ME despite loving the rest of the game to pieces and racking up my highest FM hours count for quite a while! My take on it is that 19 is unquestionably a better game & it may well be the more realistic ME, but it's 17's representation of the beautiful game that I get more enjoyment out of right now which puts me in a heck of a quandary... 

This looks less like "good attacking movement" and more like embarrassingly poor defending in which only 7 players bother to defend against 8 attacking players in a supposedly defensive lineup. Naughton's defending is very bad, but worse than that, Routledge is standing in a position no wide player has ever taken up in a defensive block at any competitive level of football (the infamous "wide midfielders should be wider than their opponents" defensive behaviour in 17). Dyer would be doing the same thing if Shaw wasn't making a forward run. You could keep the ball and wait for Swansea's fullbacks to make similar mistakes with a League 1 side...

FM19's gone the other way by deliberately sticking the attacking players close to the defending ones for most of the game unless they've got attributes or a role which should keep them further away or it's a counter attack, which is a slightly hacky way of making attributes and passing styles matter and has the side effect of making your wingers come inside a lot, but it's a lot less unbalanced than FM17 . The reality is when sides park the bus, they generally do lose to individual brilliance and/or a cross rather than from some positional quirk which leaves them not defending a particular area of the field at all...

 

FM19 is not a difficult game to score in with a pretty vanilla 4-4-2 anyway...

 

 

Edited March 5, 2019 by enigmatic

[mrjooleo]

1 minuto atrás, Arnoldzhu disse:

yeah, don't see any skills or flairs in the attacking players. lacking in astonishing dribbles or unexpected smart passes together with clever small-range teamwork of movements, everything's just do dumb. wingers or attacking midfielders don't even try to beat the defenders and really "attack the box". no passing or ball controlling or dribbling within the box.

I have to agree

[CFuller]

I've just seen my right-winger take the ball deep in the opposition half, dribble inside, take on a bunch of opposition defenders, and then finish a stunning solo goal in the penalty area. In League One. I must be playing a different version of FM19 to some people.

However, I have noticed something odd. The match engine seems to be a bit less smooth than it was before the big update - by that, I mean it tends to lag very briefly and run a little too slowly, then it suddenly runs a little too quickly, and so on. Could updating my graphics drivers help with this?

[Arnoldzhu]

10 minutes ago, CFuller said:

I've just seen my right-winger take the ball deep in the opposition half, dribble inside, take on a bunch of opposition defenders, and then finish a stunning solo goal in the penalty area. In League One. I must be playing a different version of FM19 to some people.

However, I have noticed something odd. The match engine seems to be a bit less smooth than it was before the big update - by that, I mean it tends to lag very briefly and run a little too slowly, then it suddenly runs a little too quickly, and so on. Could updating my graphics drivers help with this?

That's true. Quick wingers can do that, defenders might largely be unable to keep up with him in pace. I often see Martial do that and bump into opposition defenders. (yeah, i'm just asking too much from the ME. I know that

Yes, sometimes it lags, and the next highlight it will be fine.

Edited March 5, 2019 by Arnoldzhu

[mrjooleo]

There another thing im seeing now... strikes or forward players they 90% of the times they receive a cross or long pass they shot right way..  they dont control the ball

And a DLP on defend it shot less on.. they shot in averange 3 per game... nad its always from long range.. 

To many shots hitting the post or the bar.. an averange 2 per game... To high! 

and in general players shoul pass  the ball more often.. to move the oposition or to try make a killer pass to the striker.. or other player in finishing situacion

And.. Toi many blocked shots.. sometimes i see 3 or 4 in the some play..

 

Edited March 5, 2019 by mrjooleo

[Mitja]

30 minutes ago, enigmatic said:

This looks less like "good attacking movement" and more like embarrassingly poor defending in which only 7 players bother to defend against 8 attacking players in a supposedly defensive...

Both fullbacks are inverted with support duty that's why defending looks so bad, he's exploiting ME a little if you ask me. 

Attack duty (A)MLRs still defend outside of any logics in fm19.