Official Football Manager 2015 Feedback Thread 15.2.1

[Mitja]

It's neither fact, nor opinion. It happens in some games, not all.

If you think it is a chronic bug in the programming, by all means upload a save/pkm, and it will be fixed if it is deemed to be a bug by the devs. Otherwise you're doing just what you said others are doing in not solving the issue.

too many shots has always been a problem in FM. with this FM maybe just a little more.

since FM game is shorter than real life game it does seem that teams only run like crazy to shoot without play any tactics on the field as Vasa said.

without significant defending improvement in ME, better tactical system (and improved AI) which will resemble real life football these things will always be a problem. little tweaks and fixes can only make things even worse like 'too many shots/finishing ratio' with current ME. defensive mentality tacics are basicly useless for long time now and that may not be a problem for human managers (those who visit these forums) but it's certanly a thing which AI can't deal with. and this is easily a gamebreaker for many.

[Mitja]

always thought it's 60 minutes or something. but nice to know it's 90 though. much friendlier to compare stats with real life. what do you meen by 1/8th of a second?

[Cougar2010]

always thought it's 60 minutes or something. but nice to know it's 90 though. much friendlier to compare stats with real life. what do you meen by 1/8th of a second?

I think if you look at RL stats 60 minutes is about the length of time the ball is in play during a 90 minute match, maybe that is confusing you?

What Alex means by 1/8th of a second is that the movement and decisions of everything on the pitch is calculated 8 times for each in game second during a match.

[Svenc]

I think if you look at RL stats 60 minutes is about the length of time the ball is in play during a 90 minute match, maybe that is confusing you?

He isn't entirelly off. The last re-write in between FM 2011 and FM 2013 caused matches to be less "compressed". Previously if you set the viewing speed slider at its default, you had noticed that the clock wasn't quite real-time (it is now), and more importantly: Going back to FM 2012 and beyond you'll immediately notice that there are lesser events and sequences and individual actions in a match. Most notably it is in the number of passes, as well as the distance covered by a team. There now is a much higher number of passes made in a match etc. (the difference is still present in FM 2015 -- if you take a look at competitions you have not simulated in full detail, the number of passes quickly calculated don't fit the current engine iterations anymore, as they're miles off, as are the distances covered by players in a match). It is probably worth bearing this in mind, as lesser "game time" = lesser time for action, goal and shots.

Anyway, as I didn't trust my gut feeling and memories of saves of yore I went back to FM 2012. Whoever argued that defensive tactics have been by default a mine field, not worth the hassle and risky in FM is hugely off anyway. I'm not going to pretend that this is going to be a balanced test: This is taking a top side, fielding it as in the following screen shots and encouraging it to be pushed all the way back for an entire 90 minutes (hoofing the ball clear, containing the game, dropping even deeper plus a fitting roles and duty structuring, which as you can see isn't a balanced one in any kind of way as there's little movement forward, but this is done on purpose). On FM 2012 I'm going with Bayern. On FM 2015 with Chelsea. Let's see how effective it is to pile up bodies in between the opponent and your goal in either ME iteration.

This is what typically happens against sides of decent enough calibre on FM 2012:

The important statistics to note here is the number of long shots, as just dropping off in FM 2012 actually can close a side out and force it to take pot shots. The corresponding spread of shots:

Bayern actually managed to win the match still. As you can see from the shot above, the tactics doesn't hugely encourage men forward when in possession. Thus it was a moment of Kroos' individual long shot brilliance that, naturally out of options, saw him taking a shot from far out and hitting the home run. 1-0.

The previous match:

Didn't manage to win this one (1-1), but relying on moments of individual brilliance would be bad management.

This is what typically happens in FM 2015:

Didn't force them out much, no? Okay, you might argue, Arsenal ain't Dortmund, and Chelski ain't Bayern. The following match against Newcastle:

And on and on. I don't think this is merely coincidence, as teams on FM 2015 have it far easier to penetrate the box, which could be connected to anything from better off the ball movements, better decision making in regards to passes, set piece delivery, marking issues, anything. The feedback on such to me is no fluke. Whilst it is possible to defend, it has become more risky somewhere along the ride, which is ironic, given that FM 2012 for instance did not have any collision avoidance. This would be then be off-set by super dribbers such as Hazard cutting through defenses as if they didn't exist likewise. In case you've been wondering how Chelsea did so many shots going despite not committing much forward: Truly hazardous, the many runs through a crowd of defenders as if they didn't exist, and naturally, half the attempts were taken after him making super dribbles and taking a shot (the other were from set pieces mostly):

Naturally the power of dribblings rubs of on lesser players too, it has too, that is how the game is set up (talking about dribblings, I'm missing the "play through defense" team instruction from FM 2012, which is the opposite of "run at defense" which still exists). Combine this with the occasionally random danger of measly set pieces (corners, but also throw-ins that semi-regularly appear to result into ping-pong passing sequences unchallenged until the ball hits the net), and to me it seems clear that defending as such is a tad harder to do in this one, to put it that way. Even if this doesn't touch upon any of the causes of the reported matches with super high shot counts on both sides and high scoring AI as well as player games (it's also worth bearing in mind that matches last "longer" now and cover a higher number of individual actions than they did back then): Would love to hear other experiences though, wasn't it Ackter who had a Catenaccio save of conceding ridiculously few goals in FM 2013 or 2014? His defensive strategy appeared to push all up rather than drop off though.

[WayneRomney]

never mind

[CityAndColour]

First post goals from corner. Low crosses to the first post. The player tasked with marking the near post moves out, no one marks the attacker, easy goal.

Pretty sure the near post defender not reacting is a known bug - it's particularly evident with low corners and wide free kicks. It's currently one of my biggest ME frustrations.

[Lazylen]

I still lack the limited anticipation you get on AI tactical changes in a match and i watch matches in comprehensive highlights...

Sometimes you dont get any warning at all that the AI has changed something and then first highlight you get the AI manages to get an advantage becasue of this (a goal or a shot on goal). Only to see afterwards what went wrong.

I had matches which i lead 2-0, and was dominating. Then 2 highlights with two AI-goals in a matter of seconds, without any warning that they had put in an extra striker or another tactical change.

And sometimes you get a warning and you try to change it: but the changes take some time to be processed. That allows the AI to play - sometimes up tot 5-10 minutes in game time - against a flawed tactic, so the AI gets some time to exploit your flaws.

I seriously get that a lot of things which happen in the ME are tactical related. But its a flaw that the game doest let you anticipate well enough on those situations.

[CityAndColour]

You can always have the AI formation up as a widget. I'd like a good assistant to give advice such as "they look like they're throwing more men forward" or "looks like they are trying to exploit the left flank" though.

[mbabbs]

Not frustrating at all. Obviously it could happen, but you can imagine my joy as Wrexham manager during this game.

[HUNT3R]

Mbabbs, I imagine you're posting that image because you believe you dominated, but based on those limited stats, you didn't.

[mbabbs]

No - I'm just sharing my frustration. I know I didn't dominate and I know its not a bug (although its odd that all 8 goals came in the first half and the many of them were straight from kick offs).

[HUNT3R]

No - I'm just sharing my frustration. I know I didn't dominate and I know its not a bug (although its odd that all 8 goals came in the first half).

Just making sure! It is odd, yes. The 5 goals at the end of the half especially. Did you notice any pattern or oddity in how they were conceded?

[Svenc]

A couple further things and musings of note:

1) According to wwfan, the AI on FM 2012 never adopted to a player who had a hunch of players on defend duty, including the full backs plus flooding the centre of the pitch with defending players, which I did above. That means it never realized as such and was always undermanned when going forward, which would naturally influence the tendency to pot shot a tad. A better thing would have been to compare FM 2013 or FM 2014 to FM 2015. But since I knew from personally playing a save just a couple of months ago by experience that dropping all off and soaking up pressure was by no means so risky in 2012 I took that as a point of reference.

2) Looking at the (shooting) stats of the Chelsea-Arsenal match-up you'd think this was a fairly open game, not one in which Chelsea essentially did what they did in the CL season 2011/2012 during the last couple of ties against Barca and Bayern: sitting back, dropping hugely off, inviting and soaking up pressure and hoping to get one in on the break, or well, after a corner (given the roles and duties, with the added twist of there not being much of any players frequently committing hugely forward when attacking). To a more casual player, the statistics might have looked outright nonsensical given his tactical encouragements, as this was also done on a "contain" mentality (and go read the in-game description of that yourself).

However, from my experience, more risk-averse mentalities have never overlapped much with dribbling decisions and similar of players (which you can take as a criticism, if you will). Passes, yes, dribblings and through balls not so much. Always been the case that I considered outright subbing Ribery if I wanted to hold onto a lead and see out a game due to his tendency to make an attacking forward run with the ball that would see play ending up in the final third of the pitch (which is what a dribbling essentially boils down to). This is essentially what caused there to be so many shots, see Hazard's insane amount of runs resulting in 9 shots. Wingers are by their very definition roles that would encourage frequent dribblings, so they have to go. Hazard was fielded as a wide midfielder, but I think like RIbery he also has a "runs with the ball often" PPM / personal trait. Naturally dribblings on occasion can be way overpowered anyway. Whilst the statistics occasionally picks up on successful runs that don't aren't all that (similar to the CCC algorithm), that's still an insane amount, even for a cup tie that went into extra time (the average for world class dribblers is 5, 6, 7 at best of such succesfull runs).

3) After having fired up FM 2012 again, still wondering why the "Pass to feet" instruction and "Play through defense" instructions had to go. Both were the opposites of instructions that are still in the game: "Pass into space" and "Run at defense" respectively.

[mbabbs]

Just making sure! It is odd, yes. The 5 goals at the end of the half especially. Did you notice any pattern or oddity in how they were conceded?

I have a save of the game if you'd like it. I seem to remember goals from kickoffs.

PS - I trounced Chester 4-1 in the next game so feel better now

[Acquafresca]

And dont tell me that this post is pointless.

[themadsheep2001]

But the above post is largely pointless. It's 4 screenshots, that dont show much more than the fact you took a large number of shots, and didnt get great results.

Don't know anything about how you played, how the game unfolded, can't see any game, there is no match to analyse, there is no coding for devs to look at. Not even sure what the actual point is that you're trying to make. Are you hoping are will try and play a guessing game to see what is you're actually asking?

I mean, if you actually wanted someone to look at this, you would have uploaded all 4 PKMs, with times of anything you suspected was off. Infinitely more useful than what you just posted.

[Cougar2010]

This one I would say is simply down to bad luck.

You've controlled possession, created some chances & restricted the opposition. If you wanted to be picky you could take a closer look at the goals that they scored and how they happened but in general just one of those days.

This one isn't as clear cut.

Sparta score 0 or 1, you wouldn't expect them to get more while you would hope to score at least one probably two goals. You didn't create as many chances (Just 2 clear & one half) but on a good day you would hope to get a 2-1 win from those stats so 1-1 is fair enough, you just didn't quite do enough.

Possession even, you restricted their chances, they didn't score.

Problem this match was neither did you - 1 clear chance, 8 half chances but only three on target. Simply put you just didn't hit the net.

Similar to your second match.

They were lucky to get one while you would have expected at least two from those stats.

The bottom line is that is football, sometimes you just don't win even when you deserve to.

[Vasa83]

But the above post is largely pointless. It's 4 screenshots, that dont show much more than the fact you took a large number of shots, and didnt get great results.

Don't know anything about how you played, how the game unfolded, can't see any game, there is no match to analyse, there is no coding for devs to look at. Not even sure what the actual point is that you're trying to make. Are you hoping are will try and play a guessing game to see what is you're actually asking?

I mean, if you actually wanted someone to look at this, you would have uploaded all 4 PKMs, with times of anything you suspected was off. Infinitely more useful than what you just posted.

4 screenshots that confirm what in the ME should be improved.

I don't say that a game match like this above couldn't exist. 1-2 in a season would be real, not 4 in a mounth.

[themadsheep2001]

4 screenshots that confirm what in the ME should be improved.

I don't say that a game match like this above couldn't exist. 1-2 in a season would be real, not 4 in a mounth.

Actually they confirm nothing. the problem is, we actually have no idea if its user or ME sided based on a screenshot. you can only make guesses, not a confirmation of any kind. For example, that could easily be a result of poor tactical play ( easily replicable)? Is it? We dont know because there is no indication of what he plays or how he plays. Screenshots dont actually tell you very much.

[Loversleaper]

If possession and shots determine the outcome of football games - then Italy would have never won a match...

[Dagenham_Dave]

As Norwich manager, I just tried to sign Papastathopolous from Dortmund, as he was transfer listed.

Negotiated a price, and it came to his contract demands. He initially wanted 105K a week, miles ahead of anyone else in my squad. I negotiated it down to 94k a week, which is the ultimate lowest he would go to (and this was with a ton of lucrative clauses). In the end, I pulled out the deal, as it would have crippled me financially, and for a 31-yr old, not really worth it, despite the fact he's a top class player.

A few days later, he signs for Olympiakos. Just look at those wages...

28K. From a team in the Greek league. Even though he wouldn't accept less than 94k a week from a Premier League club. To rub salt in the wounds, Olympiakos also convinced Dortmund to pay around 10k a week of those wages to leave.

I know this issue has been going on for years, but this is the worst one I've seen yet. One day I really hope this will be fixed.

[Wavelberry]

Isn't he Greek though Dave? I've seen some mad ones in the past but that doesn't seem so mad. He's Greek and he wanted to go back to Greece. He'd have moved Norwich (and I've been to Norwich, he's being generous to move for under £150k a week) for the amount of money you offered as that was enough to make it worth his while. Moving back to Greece was worth more to him so he took less money.

[Maw74]

He just wasn't that keen to play for you.

[drbrock]

Hey all, so just to throw in some feedback, I am in my 12th season at the moment. I have a squad on par with Barcelona and Real Madrid. I play an attacking high pressing game. and dominate most games, my main issue is when I play Barca or Madrid away, if I try a counter-attacking formartion (that the team is 100% used to) I get completely smashed much like most people on the thread have suggested and end up having attack after attack thrown at me, usually conceding 2/3 goals within the first 20 minutes.

My solution? (even though I am away from home I usually switch back to my control/possesion/pressing tactic and by the end of the game I have won 6-2/5-3 etc.

My point is defending tactrics (at least for me) is redundant. Again this is the same in later stages of Champ League knockout rounds. For example I play away to Juventus (Champ League semi-final) who have won Serie A about 9/10 times and have a crazy good squad (probably better than mine), and again same thing. I try and do the RIGHT thing and play a conservative counter-attacking game but end up getting thrashed until I HAVE TO change back to my attacking formation and turn the whole thing around.

Basically like many have suggested any formation wether you are sitting deep or counter-attacking or just trying to play a balanced game does not seem to work. Encourages all HUMAN players to play the same way.

I play a 4-3-3 by the way with Inside forward left and winger attack right. Adv forward up front and the usual combo of def mid/box2box/adv playmaker as the three in the middle

[Dagenham_Dave]

Isn't he Greek though Dave? I've seen some mad ones in the past but that doesn't seem so mad. He's Greek and he wanted to go back to Greece. He'd have moved Norwich (and I've been to Norwich, he's being generous to move for under £150k a week) for the amount of money you offered as that was enough to make it worth his while. Moving back to Greece was worth more to him so he took less money.

Possibly, although the difference in wages is quite extreme. I'm not sure any 31-yr old footballer would forego an extra 60k a week just to play in a country that isn't his own. Particularly when it's in one of the world's top leagues.

[Cougar2010]

433 isn't the greatest of formations to be defending with tbh, you have 3 players not contributing.

If you want to play more controlled there are better formations.

[drbrock]

433 isn't the greatest of formations to be defending with tbh, you have 3 players not contributing.

If you want to play more controlled there are better formations.

Sorry should have made clear.. 4-3-3 being my attacking tactic, when defending its either 4-5-1 (basically 4-1-4-1) or sometimes 3-1-4-2. yeah when attacking its the classic 4-3-3 with DM and 2 wide wingers/inside forwards

[jc1]

Possibly, although the difference in wages is quite extreme. I'm not sure any 31-yr old footballer would forego an extra 60k a week just to play in a country that isn't his own. Particularly when it's in one of the world's top leagues.

I offered a young 20 yr old dutch player £700pw and rotation, he moved to NEC for £450pw and as a backup, annoyed me at first then realised he wanted back to Holland and SPFL wasn't what he wanted, it happens.

[WolverineBrother]

Goalkeepers are an absolute mess of contradictions.

On the one hand they have zero reaction time, and can not only save, but hold "perfect shots" that would be unstoppable in real life, and have some kind of ball magnet in their gloves, allowing them to pick balls out of the air that has just been smashed against the crossbar. Ridiculous. They also know where shots are going even when they are blocked 3 feet away from the point of origin, as witnessed by GKs throwing themselves after these blocked shots that they have no earthly way of knowing the trajectory of.

On the other hand, they will get up with the speed and agility of a 90 year old after making a save but dropping the ball right next to them. Completely disinterested in the ball resting 2 feet away. Or they stay down for a full 5 seconds (I timed it, but of course I don't know how long their nap would actually be, because after 5 seconds the opposing striker scored.) without moving for said ball easily within their reach.

How about fixing the ridiculous amounts of shots hitting the woodwork, and then fixing the ridiculous catches that the GKs make after the ball hitting the woodwork? Should cancel each other out, and make for an infinitely more realistic ME.

[Cougar2010]

Sorry should have made clear.. 4-3-3 being my attacking tactic, when defending its either 4-5-1 (basically 4-1-4-1) or sometimes 3-1-4-2. yeah when attacking its the classic 4-3-3 with DM and 2 wide wingers/inside forwards

4141 is a favoured formation of mine to play a possession game and I generally have few issues defending with it tbh.

I've conceded 10 goals in the last 14 matches with it before I conceded five in the last match.

[drbrock]

4141 is a favoured formation of mine to play a possession game and I generally have few issues defending with it tbh.

I've conceded 10 goals in the last 14 matches with it before I conceded five in the last match.

Yeah I mean Im sure it depends on so many factors but the general feeling is the game seems easy when attacking even against the odds. I have played this game for sooo long so I am no novice and know exactly what I am doing (maybe I am too good? lol) anyway will have to leave for a new challenge after one more season. I usually like the cautious approach being a fan of Italian football for the last 20 odd years so maybe I will go rescue ACMilan and break the Juve dominance in serie A occuring in my game right now.

[Dagenham_Dave]

I offered a young 20 yr old dutch player £700pw and rotation, he moved to NEC for £450pw and as a backup, annoyed me at first then realised he wanted back to Holland and SPFL wasn't what he wanted, it happens.

Yes, that does happen, because that scenario makes sense. My example doesn't. In the slightest.

[brawla123]

Why is it so easy for English teams in this game?

[Scotty Walds]

Possibly, although the difference in wages is quite extreme. I'm not sure any 31-yr old footballer would forego an extra 60k a week just to play in a country that isn't his own. Particularly when it's in one of the world's top leagues.

He's probably gone back to live with his Mum so doesn't need the extra cash

[Pyu]

Just want to chime in with some observations about the 3-1-4-2 tactic that was discussed a few pages back after using it in a completely new game. It actually has all the desirable tactical hallmarks that the ME has been tuned for as described here - aggressive high defensive line to eliminate the space between your midfield and defence, an attacking mentality which coupled with the specified high pressing game together with opposition instructions that probably result in a style of play that is I guess very aggressive and very Bielsa-esque.

The three central defenders and half-back configuration actually becomes a back four (the half back and ball playing defender basically cover each other when the agressive pressing settings pull one out of position) when you are defending and you actually want players with good physical + semi-decent defensive stats playing in central midfield and wingback like players along the flanks. Again, very Biesla-esque.

Game key moments usually include my players playing in around and within the opposition box so much that I have over 20+ shots on goal per game and battering the opposition until the inevitable mistake occurs and my players score.

Or when my defensive line (the three center backs and half-back) is having an off day at doing interceptions / clearances and I get hit for three goals in the first half, I rage at them during the half-time team talk and they come out to batter the oppositon to pieces again.

And to be honest, its completely pointless to switch to any other mentalities with the same match instructions because you get boat-murdered instantly.

I'm not complaining to be honest, since if that means the ME has matched reality somewhat, I am all for it. Perhaps the match engine team will need to re-assess at which player attribute levels (for each position) under which such a demanding space-reducing pressing can work.

[CityAndColour]

Yes, that does happen, because that scenario makes sense. My example doesn't. In the slightest.

He probably didn't want to play for an English manager.

[Sunstrikuuu]

I do find it confusing that I can't tell my players they're underdogs when I'm sending out a U-18 team in a pointless European match (and I do mean pointless. Arsenal v Basel in the group stage of the Champions League, I'm top of the table with 15 points from 5 games, LOSC is second on 5, Strommsgodset third on 4 and Basel fourth on 3; there's no possible way I can't finish top of the group.) As it is I get shellacked, which is partially my fault for sticking with aggressive, attacking tactics, but really I don't care. And then all my interaction options are either being upset that we got rekt or explaining it away as bad luck. I'd love the chance to just say "it doesn't matter if we win or lose, and we've got another game in two days." (Parenthetically, looking at the results from the group... yeez. Only two games between the AI had fewer than 4 goals scored; one 1-1 draw in the first round and one 3-0 in the second.)

It'd also be nice if this result - Arsenal 2 - 6 Basel - hadn't dropped my team's morale from VG/Superb to Fairly Good/Okay. In the totality of my matchday squad I had two players registered in my 25, and that was a backup goalkeeper and an old Mikel Arteta who's my third or fourth-choice in the CMd role in my midfield. Like... I want to send my players on vacation that week. Not have them stressing over how badly the wee little ones got beat.

[GazzP]

Anybody find 'destroyers' get really low ratings. I have Tiote and Anita playing as ball winning midfielders, making 7-10+ interceptions a game, 5-6 tackles and passing 70-80 passes at 85-90% completion and they constantly get 6.4 to 6.7's.

[theBantams]

Having now played FM15 for my first season I am finding it really unrealistic. I just won the treble (FA CUP, LEAGUE 1, and the JOHNSTONES TROPHY) with Bradford city. Plus I lost the CAPITAL ONE CUP Quarter final. That would not happen IRL. I want a FM with a bit more challenge please.

I'm more than happy to upload my save to show Im not cheating in any way too

[Paolo di Canio]

Wondering what guys at SI think about the points these people just raised. Do they agree that the game is easier to tactically crack than it was last year? If so, is this working as designed, or just a flaw they will work on in next updates?

[jc1]

Yes, that does happen, because that scenario makes sense. My example doesn't. In the slightest.

Why does it not make sense, he wants a return to Greece, wages over there is £24k which he's happy with, you offer a contract to a team and league he's not in the slightest bit interested in so he asks for ridiculous wages to compensate the fact he's moving to boring Norwich, you come up a few thousand short and he opts for Greece where he wanted to go to in the first place.

[KingEric07]

Having now played FM15 for my first season I am finding it really unrealistic. I just won the treble (FA CUP, LEAGUE 1, and the JOHNSTONES TROPHY) with Bradford city. Plus I lost the CAPITAL ONE CUP Quarter final. That would not happen IRL. I want a FM with a bit more challenge please.

I'm more than happy to upload my save to show Im not cheating in any way too

Please do upload. I'd like to play that save!

[Sunstrikuuu]

Save game times are a bit silly, no? I'm getting some autosaves so long that windows thinks the game has frozen.

[macca72]

Having now played FM15 for my first season I am finding it really unrealistic. I just won the treble (FA CUP, LEAGUE 1, and the JOHNSTONES TROPHY) with Bradford city. Plus I lost the CAPITAL ONE CUP Quarter final. That would not happen IRL. I want a FM with a bit more challenge please.I'm more than happy to upload my save to show Im not cheating in any way too

Can you share your tactical approach please?

[forameuss]

Why is it so easy for English teams in this game?

Why is it so hard for them in this game?

Actually, that's not right. It isn't hard. In fact, it's only one more English win in the last fifteen years of game time than the last fifteen years of real life. I'd say that's pretty close to realistic.

[Mr U Rosler]

I'm sad to say i'm finding this ME a bit boring.

The only way to play seems to be attacking, high line, high pressing which results in a kind of dominating performance resembling an attack vs defence training game, you create 30 shots and generally score a couple unless one of your strikers is 'hot' and you bag a few.

Its awful to watch when you've seen this pattern hundreds of time before.

I've desperately been trying to drop the line, invite teams out and counter just to see some fresh football but you immediately hand the initiative to opponents and end up reverting to the turgid, winning football from before.

I even uninstalled the game for a while which is unheard of for me (soon re-installed it )

The rest of the game is excellent, the in game animations are superb to watch but the tactical side is a big step backwards in my opinion.

Small teams playing away at Stamford Bridge and attacking should get hammered, those who set up to diligently to defend and counter should have a chance. At the moment the reverse is true, your best chance is all out attack, try and sit back and play sensibly and you will likely get hammered.

Strong teams should have the flexibility to play a number of ways, including countering but at the moment there is no reward for anything other than full on attacking football, high line, high press etc.

I'm pretty disappointed with the tactical side of things at the moment.

[dazbowski]

I'm sad to say i'm finding this ME a bit boring.

The only way to play seems to be attacking, high line, high pressing which results in a kind of dominating performance resembling an attack vs defence training game, you create 30 shots and generally score a couple unless one of your strikers is 'hot' and you bag a few.

Its awful to watch when you've seen this pattern hundreds of time before.

I've desperately been trying to drop the line, invite teams out and counter just to see some fresh football but you immediately hand the initiative to opponents and end up reverting to the turgid, winning football from before.

I even uninstalled the game for a while which is unheard of for me (soon re-installed it )

The rest of the game is excellent, the in game animations are superb to watch but the tactical side is a big step backwards in my opinion.

Small teams playing away at Stamford Bridge and attacking should get hammered, those who set up to diligently to defend and counter should have a chance. At the moment the reverse is true, your best chance is all out attack, try and sit back and play sensibly and you will likely get hammered.

Strong teams should have the flexibility to play a number of ways, including countering but at the moment there is no reward for anything other than full on attacking football, high line, high press etc.

I'm pretty disappointed with the tactical side of things at the moment.

Absolutely spot on, I developed a winning tactic but like you it was one dimensional and boring to watch. 30 shots on target, 5-7 ccc and you win by the odd goal or like you said your striker has a good day.

I've been told it's my tactics and have ripped it up and started again trying different methods but no joy.

The rest of the game seems pretty damn good but to me the match engine (whch is probably the most important) is pretty awful.

[theBantams]

Can you share your tactical approach please?

macca72 I will PM you my tactic I dont think I can share it here.

[Dagenham_Dave]

The only way to play seems to be attacking, high line, high pressing which results in a kind of dominating performance resembling an attack vs defence training game, you create 30 shots and generally score a couple unless one of your strikers is 'hot' and you bag a few.

Not true.

I played a compact, defensive formation as Sunderland at home to Man City, and beat them 2-0, restricting them to just one shot on goal in the entire match. I had similar success at home to Arsenal with the same side. Of course, it doesn't always work, I got well beat by Chelsea using the same strategy, but they played superbly on the day, so it probably wouldn't have mattered what tactic I played.

The problem with the ME isn't that there's not a more defensive way to set up against the bigger sides - there is - it's that attacking tactics against certain sides are overpowered, ergo most people will stick with them as they think it gives them the best chance of success.

[theBantams]

Please do upload. I'd like to play that save!

https://www.mediafire.com/?8t6d7i68fdarbgo