*Official* FM 13 Update 13.2.3 - Match Engine v1339 Constructive Discussion & Feedback

[sevra]

Well, about ten more matches after my last post here and I guess when most of you mentioned "through balls", it means "passes lofted over the opponent". I don't consider these two to be the same thing. A through pass runing on the ground between the defenders' gap is more likely be received by a pacey skillful poacher, while a lofted ball would be more likely be cleared by tall defenders. A good passer should be able to choose the best killing ball option according to the receiver's ability. The passing logic may need further balancing IMO.

Further more, it's a real shame seeing my skillful players making very poor heading instead of controlling the ball by their feet when they are tatally without any pressure. Someone would say that's a bad decision by the player not an ME issue, but I think it's the ME decides what reaction the player would make to a clearly no threatening high ball.

[Blueflash]

Is it just me or do all AI teams try to play through the wings. It might be my 3 centre-mids forcing them wide though.

[Keyzer Soze]

Balance is the key

After playing with the new ME for this past few days, i gotta say this is the most balanced ME that i remember... in all FM that i ever play.

I am watching my team to play and i see every events that usually happen in a football game: Through balls, crosses, tackles, shots, woodwork shots, headers... but all are happening in a very balanced way.

In previous FM... and in previous ME... we always had something that was a little bit off balanced. In some cases was the large amount of Through balls, in others was the abnormal amount of crosses. In this ME, i dont see any of that. And this for me is the biggest achievement that SI has ever made!

This ME, imo, is the best ever released by SI. It took some time... but i gotta say it was worth the waiting.

Now, for all the users that are already thinking..."oh... here comes Keyzer... always thinking that everything is perfect in FM"... here are the negative issues i've found in the current ME:

- Injuries. I'm seeing a slightly increase in injuries in matchday time. And no... it's not about tactics. I'm not playing agressive or closing down like a madman! In fact i'm using the same tactic that i was using with the previous ME... and the difference in injuries is notable. Is not a big issue.

- Goalkeepers. In my opinion they are bad! Is not something exclusive to the last ME... its something that i think since release day. Too many shots that they dont even try to make a save, too many shots where they dive the wrong way. They defend bad... and when they defend... they make saves in a odd way. I hope the goalkeeper have a big overall for FM14. They really need it.

In conclusion, apart for the goalkeeper situation, really happy with the game, and i gotta be honest: I was happy when PaulC said that this was the last ME version for FM2013. As i said, this is the most well balanced ME that i ever play... so i'm happy that untill November i can play it. I think its a nice "point" to leave the game!

[sevra]

Well, about ten more matches after my last post here and I guess when most of you mentioned "through balls", it means "passes lofted over the opponent". I don't consider these two to be the same thing. A through pass runing on the ground between the defenders' gap is more likely be received by a pacey skillful poacher, while a lofted ball would be more likely be cleared by tall defenders. A good passer should be able to choose the best killing ball option according to the receiver's ability. The passing logic may need further balancing IMO.

Things clear after I tweaked my tatic just once. I set a pacey poacher as target man and run on to balls supplied to him before one match, and found him receiving more lofted balls, one of which turned into an assist by him to another foward. Don't know why the ME decides that they don't try normal through passes.

[ajw10]

Ah so pre update my team struggled with through balls but could dribble. Now they struggle with through balls and cannot dribble at all. Dribbling has gone from overpowered to a dying art. No middle ground.

Still winning, but now the update has somehow made it less enjoyable. Think I'm done.

[BiggusD]

Could you please make it possible to get an affiliate club again? Thanks.

[akkm]

So just a quick one...won't get to play update til the weekend but can anyone clear up the through balls thing...are they lofted passes over the top or the classic slide rule pass along the ground or is it a mix of both...I just remember from one of earlier MEs there were a lot of lofted off the ground through balls.

Also read above that messi xavi iniesta cant remember which average just one through ball every 3 games ?? Where did that stat come from and what is definition of a through ball generating those stats ?

Thanks

[shirajzl]

sorry, but ill be ignorant and post without reading I love new ME, feels much more like a real match, but there's one thing that seems fishy. Very high number of chip-through passes on short distances(hard for me to explain, if you play FIFA i mean LB+Y/L1 +"triangle"). Maybe its my tactics, but i had almost none of them pre-patch and now its happening almost with every attack.

Ugh, don't mention those; the biggest exploit of the game possible.

[Kriss]

So just a quick one...won't get to play update til the weekend but can anyone clear up the through balls thing...are they lofted passes over the top or the classic slide rule pass along the ground or is it a mix of both...I just remember from one of earlier MEs there were a lot of lofted off the ground through balls.

Also read above that messi xavi iniesta cant remember which average just one through ball every 3 games ?? Where did that stat come from and what is definition of a through ball generating those stats ?

Thanks

Can only tell you what I see because some of this will depend on the level you play at and the players you have but in Argentina Div2 I'm seeing a fair mix of lofted and on the ground through balls.

What is a little wrong is the ease with which the recipient brings both types under control on many occasions.

[akkm]

Thanks Kriss, good to hear a mix at least cos for along the ground through balls what I hope to see at least attempted. I guess managing tactics can help achieve that more prominently than the lofted ones.

I'll look out for the control thing at the weekend.

[johnhughthom]

Ah so pre update my team struggled with through balls but could dribble. Now they struggle with through balls and cannot dribble at all. Dribbling has gone from overpowered to a dying art. No middle ground.

Still winning, but now the update has somehow made it less enjoyable. Think I'm done.

[video=youtube;i8hfTr9CYl8]

A Messi-esque solo dribbling goal, the beginning of the dribble was cut from the highlight upload for some reason. I could also post a few goals from through balls if uploading wasn't so painfully slow.

Like the update, sure it still has some glaring problems, people not challenging for long balls being the most frustrating, but it's definitely an upgrade on the last one. I'm personally finding it slightly tougher, in the previous version I won the league first season after an 18 game winning streak at the start of the season, which included 12 consecutive games without conceding. Still dominating matches, but my back line aren't quite as solid and the opposition seem to have a bit more about them in attack. Qualified for the Champion's League group stage (that goal above clinched it) and somehow beat Milan 2-1 in the first group match with a last minute penalty. A defensive counter attacking 4-3-3 with 2 DMs has done me proud in Europe.

[Come Clarity]

Better, but hmm...

Cross-field diagonal defence splitting runs happen too often. Maybe (Antonio) Valencia is just THAT good, but players with decent pace and dribbling stats still continue to destroy defenders like a warm knife to butter who seem completely unable to track the player with the ball.

[Kriss]

Better, but hmm...

Cross-field diagonal defence splitting runs happen too often. Maybe (Antonio) Valencia is just THAT good, but players with decent pace and dribbling stats still continue to destroy defenders like a warm knife to butter who seem completely unable to track the player with the ball.

I'm wondering if this is a problem at the higher levels, not seeing it where I'm at.

[Charco]

I've already said I think its improved a lot but my last 3 games as Newcastle in 2019:

Sunderland 1-1 Newcastle; Shots 1-19; On Target 1-11; CCCs 0-6; Woodwork 0-7. (Sunderland scored on 88mins)

Newcastle 1-2 West Brom; Shots 15-4; On Target 8-2; CCCs 4-1; Woodwork 3-1. (West Brom winner scored on 91mins)

Newcastle 1-1 Hull; Shots 22-4; On Target 12-1; CCCs 7-2; Woodwork 4-0. (Hull scored on 86)

My tactics tend to close out games well. . I've only conceded 7 goals in the last 15mins this season (48 games); I have 3 out of top 10 scorers in the league with the the top 2 having a 70% shots-on target. My first team players are all available but I've had to rotate a bit

Everything that can go wrong has gone wrong as these results have seen me drop off the pace at the top of the table. Is this just a freak occurance?

[Bobble2002]

Further games played and extras i have noticed .

Players WALKING all over the pitch with the ball until they either lose posession or just hoof it smewhere random .

I honestly had a midfielder who took possesion of the ball mid way into the oppositions half . As another player tried to tackle him he calmly turned towards his own goal and WALKED back to it with the opposition player walking behind him . Finally he arrived in our own penalty area where he kicked it out for a corner .

I started a new save with Vauxhall as the seemed to be about the worst team i could find ( least expectations ) Because i could not get any players in because of wage restraints I casually looked at youth players 16 or under .

I then signed 16 of them up as their stats are all way better than what i had on about £5 a week.

Currently ten matches into my new save we are second in the league with a minimum of at least 6 of them playing each game . Season expectations were to finish 22nd and chairmen said i should try and avoid relegation .

Scraping 1-0 2-1 wins and only lost once where for the majority of the game we are getting outplayed but the opposition either does not know what the goal is supposed to be for or my chairman has bribed them to miss .

Too many instances of the collision detection making players just bounce away from each other

Almost every time you can tell who is going to receive the ball from a pass even if there are other players in the way . They stand and watch it pass before even thinking about trying to get it ( both teams not just mine )

FM13 now is no longer fun for me and no way am i getting 14 unless the demo shows its a huge improvement

[ANdré Alves]

Compared to ME 13.1.3 this new patch it's inferior but still good, it's far better than 13.2.0 13.2.1 and 13.2.2 but this patch have certain issues thats concerns me.

-The wingers in case of good speed and dribling, cannot run to the corner to cross, they always runs to the center and shoot with the right foot in right side and left foot in left side, the consequence it's that the ball goes to throw-in.

-A lot of missed shoot, sometimes in front of the net the player ( in my case 18 finishing and 13 composure) miss the target many times

-Still many long shoots, but less compared with the previous versions.

-The moral continue with bug, i select and speak with a player and the player that stays upper interact with the speach and not the player i select.

In general the patch it's a lot better than the previous versions except with the 13.1.3, this versions was a lot better than the others.

P.S: sorry for my possible bad english.

[Kriss]

Well I would normally have gone back to 2D by now as it's my favored tool but I'm quite enjoying the 3D.

Some of the issues I'm seeing can probably be improved by more animations.

Awareness/Decision making especially defensively needs a lot of tweaking imo.

Wingers don't cross from the byline enough.

Short corners don't work.

All in all it's quite good though and you always have to remember the limitations of software even in this day and age, quite looking forward to FM14 tbh.

[Johnyfooty]

Can one of the mods inform me on whether ball physics on a long forward pass are considered working as intended or whether they are identified as wrong?

There seems to be close to zero friction, the ball just keeps going and going until it ends up being a goal kick, unless a player with 16-20 pace actually catches up and managed to stop the ball by the line. For example, in previous FMs, the ball would bounce 2-3 times and then stop, now it just keeps going, without any sign of willingness to ever stop. If anything, it seems like the ball actually accelerates after it touches the ground.

[johnhughthom]

Can one of the mods inform me on whether ball physics on a long forward pass are considered working as intended or whether they are identified as wrong?

There seems to be close to zero friction, the ball just keeps going and going until it ends up being a goal kick, unless a player with 16-20 pace actually catches up and managed to stop the ball by the line. For example, in previous FMs, the ball would bounce 2-3 times and then stop, now it just keeps going, without any sign of willingness to ever stop. If anything, it seems like the ball actually accelerates after it touches the ground.

Been mentioned regularly for a while now, don't think SI have said whether it's WAD or not. Personally I don't think it's as bad as people make out, but I play a sshort passing, possession based system.

[swash]

Latest effort gets an E minus from me. Seems to have completely broken defending for my team and the CPU teams, played 8 games now since the patch, 41 goals!

Like watching an under 11's game over the local rec.

Does not even seem to be down to a particular type of goal, just all of a sudden nobody can defend anymore.

Poor SI very very poor

[Kriss]

Been mentioned regularly for a while now, don't think SI have said whether it's WAD or not. Personally I don't think it's as bad as people make out, but I play a sshort passing, possession based system.

They did say it's pretty close to WAD, personally I don't find it bad, wonder if it could actually be worse for some people i.e. graphics related with certain hardware/software setups.

[drhay53]

They did say it's pretty close to WAD, personally I don't find it bad, wonder if it could actually be worse for some people i.e. graphics related with certain hardware/software setups.

I personally feel like certain balls have too much "along the pitch" velocity, if that makes any sense. The ball never slows down and in my opinion (as a physicist ) it's unphysical. The trajectory of the ball while in the air isn't accurately translated once the ball lands.

[ANDEHLSON]

Got better but...

The Paolo Guerrero tackle is back in full strength.

si pls

[Johnyfooty]

They did say it's pretty close to WAD, personally I don't find it bad, wonder if it could actually be worse for some people i.e. graphics related with certain hardware/software setups.

I can't hide my disappointment if this is what is considered working as intended when it comes to loose ball physics. I got to say that it puts me on some serious doubt over what is considered realistic and what isn't among the development team. If we were talking about basketball, I'd understand the low amount of friction on the court, but right now it seems a little over the top when it comes to the ball sliding on grass and dirt.

What hardware do you refer to though? Because I don't think a GTX660 and a 3570 I5 CPU would have problems dealing with anything FM threw at it and result in bad animations.

[Kriss]

What hardware do you refer to though? Because I don't think a GTX660 and a 3570 I5 CPU would have problems dealing with anything FM threw at it and result in bad animations.

I purposely didn't mention quality of hardware because I doubt that would result in this, I was wondering if some particular mixture of hardware/settings (regardless of quality) can cause a glitch.

I'm certainly not seeing the "ice hockey" effect some people claim so is that my perception or is it actually different for different people?

[Johnyfooty]

I purposely didn't mention quality of hardware because I doubt that would result in this, I was wondering if some particular mixture of hardware/settings (regardless of quality) can cause a glitch.

I'm certainly not seeing the "ice hockey" effect some people claim so is that my perception or is it actually different for different people?

Oh,excuse me for misunderstanding that. Well,I don't know, but if it was a glitch, it would be bad mispresentation if anything. It wouldn't change the way the ME behaves completely, would it?

I'll try getting a video if possible, even though it's not rare, nor frequent,but it's quite obvious. Pretty much every long pass that ends up a few yards out of the box will slide all the way to the line,close to regardless of power. Landing on pretty much close to 3/4 of the half field results in a goal kick.

I don't play FM13 oftenly as of present, but if it happens, I'll record it. In the meantime, if anyone else can provide a video of it, be my guest.

[Herbert Fandel]

I personally don't see it at all either. Possibly the ball occasionally going marginally fast, but if a pitch condition is "perfect" it definitely isn't incorrect for me.

Although I'm no expert, I can understand the mixture of hardware idea. I have (what was once) a top gaming laptop, FM12's 3d mode didn't work at all on it until nvidia brought out a patch about halfway through FM12's lifecycle.

[Kriss]

Oh,excuse me for misunderstanding that. Well,I don't know, but if it was a glitch, it would be bad mispresentation if anything. It wouldn't change the way the ME behaves completely, would it?

I'll try getting a video if possible, even though it's not rare, nor frequent,but it's quite obvious. Pretty much every long pass that ends up a few yards out of the box will slide all the way to the line,close to regardless of power. Landing on pretty much close to 3/4 of the half field results in a goal kick.

I don't play FM13 oftenly as of present, but if it happens, I'll record it. In the meantime, if anyone else can provide a video of it, be my guest.

I recall the Devs receiving a video from someone about this (was in the bugs forum) and they couldn't see it the problem, which I suppose poses more questions than it answers

[Johnyfooty]

I recall the Devs receiving a video from someone about this (was in the bugs forum) and they couldn't see it the problem, which I suppose poses more questions than it answers

I'll have to agree with your assumption.

[Kriss]

I'll have to agree with your assumption.

I'm not making any assumptions, I'm posing a theory which might explain it and I'm asking if it's the same for everybody but some just don't notice it or if it isn't (in which case there would be a cause)

[Zaltys]

I personally don't see it at all either. Possibly the ball occasionally going marginally fast, but if a pitch condition is "perfect" it definitely isn't incorrect for me.

I've only noticed it once myself.

During a penalty shot: the ball bounced off a post, then it just... keeps slowly rolling until it rolls out of view. While the player and goalie just stand there and wait. Even the crowd held their breath until it had rolled out (took at least 10 seconds) and then they started cheering.

It was... kinda odd.

[Johnyfooty]

I'm not making any assumptions, I'm posing a theory which might explain it and I'm asking if it's the same for everybody but some just don't notice it or if it isn't (in which case there would be a cause)

which I suppose poses more questions than it answers

This is the assumption I've been talking about.

[Guest]

I wonder if there are just not enough pitch types modelled in the game, what I see on screen looks like the sort of pace you'd see on an English Premier league pitch, as you move down the divisions the behaviour of the pitches does not seem change enough & I'd imagine this is also the case as you move to other countries.

As with many people I completely agree that GK animations need some major work, personally I do not think that keepers are that bad but they are badly let down by the 3D view. Maybe SI should use their commercial partnerships with AFC Wimbledon & Watford to get a pro keeper or two in to advise on positioning & movement, after all GK is a particularly unique position.

[Herbert Fandel]

I think this could be right.

FM is totally accurate for last nights Bernabeu, but perhaps not for tonight's Zenit pitch. Maybe too many pitchs are in too good condition.

I also don't think GKs are bad either, apart from the 1 or 2 glitch vids we've seen. I can see what people are referring to when theyget upset when a GK dives and ends up perfectly positioned to kick the ball away, but its hardly something to whine about.

[Kriss]

This is the assumption I've been talking about.

Yeh, I'm assuming some of us have an issue and some don't, sounds familiar I guess:D

[Freakiie]

I think this could be right.

FM is totally accurate for last nights Bernabeu, but perhaps not for tonight's Zenit pitch. Maybe too many pitchs are in too good condition.

I also don't think GKs are bad either, apart from the 1 or 2 glitch vids we've seen. I can see what people are referring to when theyget upset when a GK dives and ends up perfectly positioned to kick the ball away, but its hardly something to whine about.

A lot off the issues with goalkeepers come from that they seem to be 1.50 tall smurfs and on top off that nailed to the ground. Too many goals are hit over the goalie without actual pace behind them, without any angle at all imo. Sure when a ball is blasted just under the bar from 5-10m out a goalie probably won't have his hands up in time, but a cross coming from a central position shouldn't just slip over a goalie (unless it goes way over the bar of course).

That aside I still feel the defence are too passive when defending a player that starts running towards the 16yrd area. Although if they'd implement something to make defenders commit fouls in such cases I'm pretty sure we'd never see a match end with 22 players again. I also think awareness when the ball is travelling needs to be improved A LOT. Players still just stand around aimlessly in space most off the time when the ball is travelling and don't take any actions until a player has received the ball, at which point they start reacting to the situation, which quite often is too late. While defending crosses has improved, I think defenders still black out too often (or that's just the Danish 2nd division, but then strikers need to be toned down, since they don't seem to have trouble reacting).

Also I think the lofted passes need to be toned down for short distances. There seem to be too many situations where players make lofted passes over very short distances, while (at least from how it looks on the screen) they could've easily played the ball over the ground. Just looks a bit awkward when a player makes a pass that almost goes higher than the distance it travels across the pitch.

[Come Clarity]

I'm wondering if this is a problem at the higher levels, not seeing it where I'm at.

I haven't played in the lower leagues in God knows how long, however I think the problem stems with defenders rather than attackers. There's not enough sense of 'pressure' on the player with the ball, or the engine isn't giving defenders enough of a chance against players with stats that compound well (dribbling, agility, acceleration, pace etc.).

We're a leap forward from where we were last build, but there are imbalances which while tolerable do detract from the sense of realism.

[Defensive]

Disappointing update. Seems still all so random to me. Maybe its because even a minor change in tactics has way too much influence.

[Kriss]

We're a leap forward from where we were last build, but there are imbalances which while tolerable do detract from the sense of realism.

Agreed, from what I can see they're mostly tweak jobs rather than wholesale changes so hopefully can be ironed out relatively easily.

[gechal]

I like what I see, long shots sorted, and players do seem to react better to your shouts.

The problem is , I see less action. I have it on comprehensive, and the matches fly by. I look up at what used to feel like 15-20 mins or so of action, and we are up at 35 mins. I have had one game where nothing happened for almost half an hour.

This makes it more difficult to appreciate and get a feel for how each match is progressing. I don't get a chance to notice things on the pitch and react to them.

[nonleague]

For some strange reason I seem to have 5 players in my wall when defending free-kicks and yet my settings have been created to have only 4 players. This is really frustrating as I am outnumbered in my box and we're conceding because of it.

Also, almost all of the goals I concede are from set-pieces, ie, Free kick is played in to the box and the opposition player will almost always react before any of my defending players and the same can be said for corners. One last thing, My defenders who I have set to man-mark tall players on corners seem to not be marking the best players in the air. I had a defender with 18 jump marking a 11 jump player whilst my 10 jump player was marking a 17 jump player. This is another reason why I am conceding with no way of being able to fix it.

[scott MUFC]

injuries are getting rediculous, currently playing 2 wonderkids in midfield due to ALL defencive midfielders being injured.

only one that isn't, Jones has to cover 2 other positions.

counter attacking is insane as well.

[canaryboxhead]

Loving this patch, still not perfect but it is a massive improvement on the last game. Passing so much better, excellent mixture of goals, tactics clearly can be seen to make a difference (for good and for bad!).

Only one strange thing happens on my game a lot... Goal kicks. When a goal kick is kicked long 50% of the time a striker or midfielder brings it down unchallenged. I have tried to stop this a few ways (tight marking, adding a 'stopper' CB, playing with an anchorman but it happens a lot. In a real game from a goal kick, I think 99% of goal kicks long result in headers.

[nonleague]

injuries are getting rediculous, currently playing 2 wonderkids in midfield due to ALL defencive midfielders being injured.

only one that isn't, Jones has to cover 2 other positions.

counter attacking is insane as well.

Agree with you about injuries, I'm having an absolute nightmare with injuries. Could you elaborate on what you mean by 'insane counter-attacking'?

[scott MUFC]

2 games, the AI have been pushing for a goal, they take a set piece, it gets cleared, and my players are off with the ball down the other end very quickly, never happened in the last patch they slowed play down, I do want my players to counter attack, but it is effective right now.

couple of matches where my player made a tackle in open play and Neymar has just ran the entire length of the field nearly to score a goal, through some random opening that gets left.

and now one of my wonderkids is injured >.>

[Erith22]

For some strange reason I seem to have 5 players in my wall when defending free-kicks and yet my settings have been created to have only 4 players. This is really frustrating as I am outnumbered in my box and we're conceding because of it.

Also, almost all of the goals I concede are from set-pieces, ie, Free kick is played in to the box and the opposition player will almost always react before any of my defending players and the same can be said for corners. One last thing, My defenders who I have set to man-mark tall players on corners seem to not be marking the best players in the air. I had a defender with 18 jump marking a 11 jump player whilst my 10 jump player was marking a 17 jump player. This is another reason why I am conceding with no way of being able to fix it.

Yes I am giving up a crazy % of goals on set pieces, almost 1 a game. Either exactly the scenario you described above or defenders not reacting on corners.

Though I've still only seen one goal on a direct FK and that was on a deflection. That's been a problem for a couple versions now.

[nonleague]

2 games, the AI have been pushing for a goal, they take a set piece, it gets cleared, and my players are off with the ball down the other end very quickly, never happened in the last patch they slowed play down, I do want my players to counter attack, but it is effective right now.

couple of matches where my player made a tackle in open play and Neymar has just ran the entire length of the field nearly to score a goal, through some random opening that gets left.

and now one of my wonderkids is injured >.>

Thanks. The reason I asked is that I have now resorted to Counter-Attacking away from home so was just wondering what you thought about it.

Yes I am giving up a crazy % of goals on set pieces, almost 1 a game. Either exactly the scenario you described above or defenders not reacting on corners.

Though I've still only seen one goal on a direct FK and that was on a deflection. That's been a problem for a couple versions now.

Have you experienced too many players in your defensive wall on free-kicks?

[Matej]

game is 2 easy for me. and AI dont have chances at all. usually i have 15-20+ shots per game and AI maybe 2-5. Anyone else dont have challenge against AI? i was playing with Bari, Arsenal and Everton. WHen i buy few good players game becomes no brain game, i just click and win.

P.s. Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain is scorining like crazy playing inside forward on right W. he scored 20 goals from 21 game. and he has only 13 finishing. in real life, he would need 5 seasons to score 20 goals in premiership. Something is wrong, game needs bigger challenge , i mean im playing premiership, its the best league in the world. shouldnt be so easy.

[ChelseaSince86]

Really liking the new update. Only gripe is that deep freekicks are still lethal as ever.

[DCUnited]

I haven't seen it addressed yet, so I'll ask if the registration problem for the Copa Sudamericana has been fixed yet. I love playing South America based games and have completely ruled out doing so for the time being since there's been such a problem with getting that tournament registration handled.

Nothing on whether or not teams in South America can register for the Copa Sudamericana? Kind of a key feature to playing those leagues.